The R179 should get a lot more respect. They have incredible accelerations and they’re really smooth with good braking. People who don’t like them only cause of the failures due to testing has gotta understand that this type of stuff also happened to other rolling stocks. Like what the R211 is experiencing right now, having to reset their 30 day test due to some undisclosed failures on those cars which led to them being grounded for now. But they’ll get it solved eventually and they will become one of the most reliable overtime
the 179 has: put a roof over my head, food on my table, paid my bills, met my GF on that train her working as a c/r, had my 12-9 on a 179. 179's are my girls.
I really like these trains ever since they’re inception, and they feel so welcoming and nice. I genuinely never understood why railfans hated them. When I take the A train they always feel like they go faster.
@@MysticTransit I think the R188 is the fastest train in the system since it has 150hp per motor, and it has the most motors in the system per full set. Also what does bar mean ?
@@mtanyctrainatlantamartatra7164 I researched it. The r188’s don’t have the most powerful motors, however since they have the most amount of motors per set they have the highest total hp.
These criticisms of the R179s are a thing of the past now. They've been performing very well since their last return to service in September 2020. Love seeing these cars run on the A Train, in particular.
the r179 on the A had improved my stance on them. They are so good. They accelarate like rockets they are smooth and the braking feels good when the driver speeds into the station. i noticed some A drivers really push some r179s so some speeds that i didnt know 8th ave line allows.
The 179’s are a nice change of pace from the 160’s that are everywhere in the system. Living in DC, they are one hell of a lot better than the 7000 series that we have. The 179’s are quiet, smooth, and work quite well as of lately. Basically everything the 7000 series isn’t.
You should do a video explaining all of the subway cars. While I consider myself a railfan, I still do have a hard time distinguishing all the cars in use.
I love the R179s. They are probably my favorite subway cars, even when they were having their issues when first introduced. I love the subtle yes distinct differences to the other B division NTT trains and I love the unique traction motor sounds.
It was never really something to have against the 179 unless it's just the opinion but I was happy when they came out, gave a new feel for what the new technology would be like.
Glad we got them before r211 because the dimensions are correct. Allow for more seats and the correct looking wider windows. Preposterous the doors had to be so wide on the new ones!
I personally love the R179s. I like their propulsion, their design, & their performance on the 8th Ave & Jamaica lines. I wish they could have produced more of them.
Even though heaters (convection electric along the wall bases) on subway cars have no moving parts unlike the complex and maintenance heavy AC units, MTA sets the temperature at 55F at the ceiling, so NYC subway cars are always cold. People sit there in down parkas with their hoods up. At night (with no sun heating) tons of freezing maybe windy air enters at outdoor stops and the heat usually still never comes on.
They preform very nicely. The only thing I dislike about them is the Kathleen Campion takeover of the "The next stop is..." and "This is..." announcements on all route programs.
Yeah and if they add the R179 to more lines, then that voice is the only one you’ll hear in the announcements of the whole system. I’d rather the variety of different ones. The F has its own unique sound.
I don’t know about the railfans, yet as someone who “burn-tested” the R179s, we had many issues with them. The AAS software is much different than what is found in the R142-160s and programming it for your route is still cumbersome. “Cutting” the train is a PITA since there is less space between units when added up. There is more to the list but those were some of the main issues.
The R179's remind me of the R38's, because both were small orders, they both have bigger windows, and because of it, the R179's look slightly different from their sister NTT's the R143 and R160 just like the R38's did with their sister SMEE the R32's. The only thing I do not like is (just like with the R38's) the 207 Street Yard and the Pitkin Yard does not maintain them properly when it comes to keeping them clean (they need a car washing).
I feel like the NTTs are repeating history in a way. R143s are like R11s, experimental subway cars, except this time they ordered a good handful of R143s lol (and this is for CBTC of course). R160s are like R32s, numerous in quantity; R179s are as you said; and R211s will be like the R40s with a bold new design - even the gangway risks will be similar (R40s had the new slant and the safer R42 look lol), as well as the return of the large front bullets. I don't expect a R44 successor though. 😛
I mean the R179 is my personal favorite to and I don’t think they are that bad and have no idea why they are called lemons also I have no idea why I’m crushing on trains 💀
I love the R179's, only thing I don't like is the trend they started with the MTA messing with the announcements, mixing up multiple voices per announcement. Edit: The acceleration on the 179's is crazy, I absolutely love trains that accelerate fast.
I really don’t mind them. Pretty unique and cool to me. I haven’t had any issues on them taking them on the A and C lines, which I take sometimes on the way to school. I also kinda like their propulsion sounds as well. Unique compared to the other traction motor. Like how the R142As is unique compared to the R142s and how the R143s is unique compared the R160s.
I honestly think these cars are pretty nice, despite the problems they’ve had in their early years. Their design is pretty nice, and the propulsion is really unique and different from the ones we’re used to on the other NTT’s. The only problems I have with the R179 are the delayed announcements, and how it’s always Kathleen Campion’s voice saying “The Next Stop Is” or “This Is”, no matter what line the train is assigned to. Those are just only minor though. As for the major problems, the speedometer is placed too high up. Like, if you’re operating the R179’s, you legit have to look up to see how fast you are going, and it can really be distracting as it takes your eyes off the tracks. I don’t know why Bombardier designed them like that, but really they should’ve just placed it closer to the controls of the train like all the other rolling stock in the system. Other than that, these trains are pretty decent, and I hope we see some improvements with them as time goes on.
The R179s got an update for the speedometer displays on the TOD, so that’s not an issue anymore. The announcement issue is annoying, but after 5 years, I’ve just gotten used to it.
@@MysticTransit really? Thank god they fixed the issue with the speedometer. Now if only they can try and fix the announcement issue, and not have only Kathleen Campion’s voice saying “The Next Stop Is” from the A/C. I would at least prefer Catherine Cowdery’s voice for the announcement, at least the one from the J/Z, L, and M.
@@VinceHere98 the R211s have the same thing with the voice, but I still find it hilarious and unfortunate that the R160s only had the "next and last stop" updated to just Kathleen. Updating both would be ok, but better to leave them alone.
Personally when they first arrived into the system, they became one of my favorite rolling stocks right next to the R32s, R46s, R62/As, and R142/As. I also like seeing the R179s on the (C) line, they fit extremely well on the (C) then it does on the (A) line (Personally I feel like that R46s fits extremely well on the (A) then it does on the (C) but that’s just my opinion). Even though I miss seeing the R32s on the (C), I feel like the R179s are a great replacement for it and they’re capable enough for the task! Overall, I really appreciate you for making this video about them. Cheers!
When thinking of the R179s improved reliability, i don't have a reason to call it a lemon. Over here, across the Atlantic and Nordic ponds, our IC4 DMUs have proven to be the "Lemons" that the R179s are called for. The IC4 has had numerous failures upon testing, like brake issues, doors not closing properly, coupling hatching getting stuck in closed position, etc. Today, the IC4 is the least reliable train in DSBs fleet (as to what i've heard from other railfans here). They're uncomfortable to ride, they "hump" when braking and accelerating, they're loud, both inside and outside, and they make NOISE, when going through a curve at slow speed, which we don't really see a lot with the older IC3s sets. Of course, the IC3 had it's fair share of issues too, when introduced. It's automatic gearing wasn't linked properly, it's softwares had lots of bugs, and were delayed to enter service by 4(?) years, starting in January 1990. The IC3s electrical brother, the IR4, had issues too. Having problems with "Noise currents" coming from their traction motors, which shut down electrical equipment on DSBs older Class EA locomotives, when passing them on their journeys. Most of these issues with the IC3 and the IR4, were fixed by the start of the 21st Century. Making the IC3 the most reliable train of DSB, closely followed by our new Siemens Vectron Locomotive we recieved during the Pandemic. Greetings from Copenhagen! ❤
It's so common to have issues early that get resolved later... unfortunately, many in my city still don't realize that fact, despite proven reliability and consistency of service after the first year of service.
Same here. Whenever I use the A and I see an R46 approaching, I make this slight frown lol. But while they still were running the R32s I would be grateful to see a R46 and even more grateful to see an R179 approaching.
Personally, I am all for the R143s and R179 I really love them both, especially when I was surprised on how fast the 179 was taking turns on the A after leaving Broadway junction heading to Euclid.
In all honesty, while the R179 train fleet has since improved, I don’t know, but it seems like I’m still not completely well-adjusted to the R179s. Maybe one day once I do retire from railfanning I’ll probably give a round-trip on the R179 on any subway line a try
I hate these trains, not because of them having issues in the past but their ear bleeding propulsion sounds drive me insane, and also for me the LED lights are blinding especially underground and at night
I was on the (J) Line last week, it was a pleasant ride. I have two opinions: 1. Yes, the R179 did had a major hiccups, but as long as it was repaired and addressed then I'm cool with it. Opinion 2 If I was in charge of the MTA I would simplify all the cars as an exclusive lime such as R179 as the (J) & (Z).
For the motor sounds, I usually have a set of criteria which determines whether I like a train or not. 1. Screechiness- If the train produces a screech as it accelerates or decelerates, I'm more likely to find it annoying, and depending on how sharp it screeches, it can range from "it sounds okay (Skytrain Canada Line EMU) to "ouch my ears" (The Bombardier Aventra). A pure tone always sounds better and cleaner to me. 2. Pulsing Patterns and melody- When the pitch the motors give out jumps around such as on older multiple units from the 80s and 90s it's generally more interesting. The most boring train is a train which produces the same noise no matter what speed it is travelling at. A great train produces melodic sounds. 3. Pitch- Lower pitch generally sounds better. I generally don't like anything above ~2000Hz as it just gets irritating. Also no ear-piercing or harsh tones please. 4. Low-speed growl- Trains which produce a very deep, low gearbox growl at low speeds or a whirring noise as the motor speeds up are just more epic. Trains that don't growl are also fine but have less of a distinct character. 5. Chords- If a train produces humming noises (e.g. AC transformers or GTO choppers), I generally like it when the humming noises form a nice chord. This is why I like the humming of the BR Class 319. 6. Other random mechanical noises- Tap changer, relay or camshaft noises are always nice. They just add a sense of character that a lot of newer trains lack. Even an air hiss would be nice. For DC motor trains, the pulsing patterns category changes to changes in motor sound. A motor which changes its sound (e.g. from growling to screaming) as it accelerates is more interesting. On a scale of 0 to 10, I'll rate the R179 on each of the aspects: Screechiness- 2. The motor sound is quite screechy and of a sharp tone. Pulsing patterns and melody- 6. The motor does sound quite melodic but it is ruined by the screechiness. Pitch- 5. The pitch of the sounds is meh. It's slightly irritating and quite high pitch. Growl- 2 No growl whatsoever and the actual sound of the motor spinning up is very very quiet. Chords- 3. There really aren't that many chords and they don't sound that nice. Random mechanical noises- 3. A lot of newer trains don't have much of these beyond the air hiss. Total score: 21/60 As for the Alstom R160, the pitch is... well it's very irritating and harsh and the pulsing patterns are boring, but at least it doesn't screech as much.
Not going to lie I was very upset at the early failures and now I'm so glad all of the problems were fixed. I really enjoy riding them and the traction system is a very different sound. Coming from a transit family, regardless of issues, I can never stay mad. 🙂
I presonally love the look of these trains. I see a lot of videos crticizing the look of ny trains and north american trains in general. Personally I love the look of ny trains and other north amercian cities. I hope we always keep the stainless steel look.
My favorite thing about the R179s is their wider windows. Which makes them a perfect match on the J, with one of the longest continuous elevated sections in the system. I also like how they look; I can pick apart the subtle differences and do enjoy these more than the R160s. My least favorite thing, and is not enough for me to say "I hate it", is how "slow" the computers are, most noticeable by the large gaps in between common announcements. While the propulsion has a nice sound, it's annoying to listen to when at low speeds for too long - still better than R143s though. Rode plenty of these on the J and I'm happy they're here. With their additional seating, I hope they'll still serve Far Rockaway trips on the A when R211s dominate. And we'll see how much faster they get once CBTC is active.
They clearly have a modern suspension system unlike all the older cars. They also have the worst seating of any system on earth - low flat shallow hard plastic benches that are painful for the average sized person to sit on because the shallowness and flatness of the seat bottoms puts all your upper body weight on your pelvic bones. With no individual seats people can spread out and it's not uncommon for someone to be sleeping across them. Shorter people can't reach the ceiling rails but they are excellent for "performers" to swing from. They have the ancient NYC arrangement of small windows which are also crudely installed (look how slick London windows look), half the window area of the subway cars elsewhere. They use pocket doors instead of outside opening doors (like London and Vienna). London Transport says the outside opening doors are cheaper and easier to maintain and repair. They probably seal better too. And the interiors looks like a hospital operating room.
I like these cars when i rode it on the (A) it was a pleasant ride on the rockaways and it didnt sway as much as the R46's and got to broad channel way faster.
I like the R179 albeit my favorites are still the R62 and R46's. The R179 definitely some of the most spacious feeling cars and I really like that. I only got beef with the handrails above the seats cuz I bump my head on em alot.
Most raillfans don't work here. 179s have two less traction motors per set and are currently the fastest revenue equipment running. AC traction motors use vvvf inverters which are responsible for the noise but also vary with manufacturer, similar to the GE/Westinghouse group switches on legacy equipment. 6:01
No perpendicular seating for looking out the window and obnoxious lighting = a substantially less enjoyable ride. However, to be fair, their status as the worst cars in the system are soon to be replaced as the 211’s managed to take all of the negative aspects of the of the 179s and add a few more, like smaller windows, fewer seats, and the removal of the corner seats. Soon we’ll be riding in windowless cattle cars without and seating at all and lighting that would make a Xerox machine envious 😂.
I understand that the two times they were pulled from service led to a lot of skepticism on their reliability. However, since they re-entered service, they have since become more reliable. Every new train will have its moments.
I think the R179s and the R160s are both very similar, and I don't mind either of them. I don't care for the R179s' propulsion though, since I feel it's too high-pitched
Glad to see they are no longer lemons. In fairness to Bombardier, (RIP), the specifications were changed after conract signed so this makes things harder for builder. In fairness to MTA/NYC, Bombardier was doomed to fail. It not only lauched the C-Series aircraft programme, something orders of magnitudes larger than it had ever built, but also laiunched Global 7500 and Lear 85 business jets at the same time. And when they got late, cash ran out and Bombardier syphoned off cash from Bombardier Transportation to subsidize the commercial and business jet divisions. As a result, Transportation didn't have the funds to modernize pkants and fix problems and started to fail to deliver working products. Delays and deffective products in many cities. As cash ran out, the Québec government got Bombardier Inc to spin off the C-Series project into separate company which it re-capitalized. Similarly, the Caisse de Dépôt du Québec (provincial retirement fund) got Bombardier to spin off Trabsportation into a separate company which it recapitalized but with a caveat: despite being money losing, it was required to pay guaranteed dividends to the CDPQ, but not to Bombardier (so shareholders never saw a cent from this) . And the requirement to py dividends for a money losing company worsened its ability to fix its delivery problems, and the less cash it had, the less it had the ability to fi problems in its products. (though the quick influx of cash from recapitalization did have short term help). Meanwhile, Bombardier cancelled the Lear 85 project after having invested billions, but kept sinking money into the Global 7500 which worsened its condition. The Caisse de Dépôt designed its deal to be unsustainable to force Bombardier Inc to Sell Bombardier Transportation because it could neither afford to buy back the CDPQ shares , nor pay that guaranteed dividend. The CDPQ conviently arranged for Alstom to buy what was left of Bombardier Transportation with CDPQ converting its 35% ownership of failed Bombardier Transportation into 18% of healthy Asltom. All proceeds of the sale went to creditors, shareholders got nothing. The same happened to all othert parts of Bombardier who liquidated all its assets except for the business jet division which nobody wanted to buy. And buyers were smart to buy assets but not debts, which left Bombardier Inc saddled with huge debts and only 2 business jets left as products. Towards the end, because of Bombardie's bad image, the only way for it to win contracts was to bid so low that the transit agencies agreed to take risks. Alstom agreed to buy Bombardier in part because of a very large order book but had underestimated that all those contracts were won because proces set so low as to not be profitable. And Alstom had to invest to fix production problems in order to avoid paying all the lagal costs of late deliveries and product defects. So your R179s are thankfully reliable now, but they are part of the downfall of Bombardier. nNew York telling Bombardier to not bother bidding on future contracts anymore was another (self inflicted) nail in Bombardier's coffin. BTW, in 2019, I was passed by an R179 on NY 9 just south of Keeseville NY. (I was on bike).
Twice the PA system has died on me and once the train just put itself breaks in emergency for LITERALLY no reason. We didn't hit anything, no burst pipe, no one pulled the cord. The majority of my serious mechanical issues as a crew member have been on these trains.
Agreed , always would prefer them over the R46 in my opinion. The propulsion is nice too. The thumbnail looks amazing don't know if its edited or what station that is but seems near the Rockaways.
Personally, I like the R179s and I like how shiny they are compared to the 143s/160s. My only problem with them is that for the time period they came out in, there was more than enough time to have Color LED Screens. But that's literally it
You know, I've been coming up with retronyms for R-type subway for a while now. For instance, I've been referring to the R44 and R46 as the Acceleran series (from the word "accelerate", denoting the latter subway car's high speed record). I also remembered that I named the R143 as the Platina (from the Latin word for "silver"), so I guess I should include the R160 and R179 as part of the Platina series. I guess this whole retronym business started when I learned long ago that the R33WF and R36 were called Redbirds, and the R32 was referred to as the Brightliner.
Well they were technically lemons, damn near everything that came in post-R42 was a lemon in one way or another. Other than that pirate hook handle and the speedometer being up in the air, they're my favorite cars to operate
R179s are so overhated just because 2019 but now they have the highest MDBF and is now the most reliable train in the system. R179s were always my favorite regardless
Honestly railfans only hate the R179s because of them being taken OOS twice and being built by the now defunct bombardier company. Yet the R179s have since improved and fun fact, their reliability is even higher than the R160s (And before you start coming at me about my “opinion”, the MTA’s official MDBF report states it too.)
The 179s suck when the tracks are wet. I had one sliding into North Conduit but we still made a station stop. Don't let it be morning dew with them in the rock. Lots of issues are from short conductors who have a hard time with observing the platforms. I'm 6'3 I have no issues working on them. The window handle was also modified because the original ones pressed into conductors chests. Alot of train ops don't like them because the master controller only turns one way. The 143,160, 142 and 142A/188 conversions goes both ways. The speedometer is not in the operators vision unless they're standing up.
I love the R179’s & have loved them from the 1st time I rode on them. The ride quality on them is fantastic. It’s like it’s gliding on a cloud. It’s a comfortable & spacious train and you can hear the announcements very clearly & the sound from the propulsion is 🔥. I love hearing them come in and out of a station. I have fought for these trains even when everyone was hating on them and now, I’m enjoying watching all the haters eat crow while these R179’s keep on doing the damn thing on the rails! Ha ha haaaaaa! 😂😂😂
I have been waiting so long for a video like this to surface, OK so I’m a just go right ahead and speak my mind on this one like I would any other matter and I really don’t give a damn if somebody gets upset or offended really because I feel as if this needs to be addressed, the fact that certain folks like to refer to these trains as “lemons” just completely blows my mind literally, not to mention the fact that these workhorses literally go so far above and beyond the call of duty to move 8 1/2 million New Yorkers daily, and yet a lot of trains including these ones [the R-179s] don’t really get the credit that they so well deserve and that needs to change, seriously calling trains “lemons” is so far beyond played out It’s not even funny like that Whole lemons term is just so tired at this point, all subway cars no matter what make, year or model are going to have issues Somewhere down the line I mean that’s just how it is, nothing’s gonna be 100% perfect, that’s not how life works, now some may say they have a favorite class of subway car that they may like, or a specific type of subway car class that they may appreciate more than others and that’s fine, but what I’m trying to say is don’t knock these machines [TRAINS] that are constantly working to move millions of New Yorkers from point A to point B every single day because what most folks don’t seem to realize is that if we did not have these trains, or a Metro System for that matter, this city sure as hell wouldn’t move because that’s one thing that New York cannot survive without is its Metro System and we all know that, so to all of those out there who don’t like certain subway car types or just dislike the MTA altogether just keep in mind that if it weren’t for them, we’d be in a world of trouble in terms of transit, because how else would you get around every day? Just take a moment and allow this to sink in and see what you come up with in the end, as for me well I think it’s more than safe to say that I’m pro MTA And I give them, their Trains AND their buses all the love and respect in the world because again if it weren’t for them New York City would be in one hell of a tight spot in terms of transit and that’s the honest to God truth right there.
Every subway car was a lemon once. Take the R68, for example. It was a lemon just like the R179, but after a bit of fixing here, and there, they were the greatest chads in the subway. Not every car is perfect.
The R179 should get a lot more respect. They have incredible accelerations and they’re really smooth with good braking. People who don’t like them only cause of the failures due to testing has gotta understand that this type of stuff also happened to other rolling stocks.
Like what the R211 is experiencing right now, having to reset their 30 day test due to some undisclosed failures on those cars which led to them being grounded for now. But they’ll get it solved eventually and they will become one of the most reliable overtime
Or the R68
@@qiaowaniAnd R46 R62A
The sound of the R179 is unique
Exactly
Yea its nice
I like to call them "Ghosts" since they sound like a whistling ghost.
(To me atleast)
But not nice
It’s nice that you think this I didn’t like them until I saw this video!
the 179 has: put a roof over my head, food on my table, paid my bills, met my GF on that train her working as a c/r, had my 12-9 on a 179. 179's are my girls.
fr lol
I really like these trains ever since they’re inception, and they feel so welcoming and nice. I genuinely never understood why railfans hated them. When I take the A train they always feel like they go faster.
They do. Currently, they are the fastest trains in the system, bar the 211.
@@MysticTransit I think the R188 is the fastest train in the system since it has 150hp per motor, and it has the most motors in the system per full set. Also what does bar mean ?
@@edot_nyc did you research that or just making this up?
@@mtanyctrainatlantamartatra7164 I researched it. The r188’s don’t have the most powerful motors, however since they have the most amount of motors per set they have the highest total hp.
@@edot_nyc bar means except
These criticisms of the R179s are a thing of the past now. They've been performing very well since their last return to service in September 2020. Love seeing these cars run on the A Train, in particular.
The unique traction motor has honestly been my favorite and has also helped me hear if I am hearing an F train leaving Jay St or an A or C train
I personally think that the 179's are my favorite rolling stock in the system. They're so underrated.
the r179 on the A had improved my stance on them. They are so good. They accelarate like rockets they are smooth and the braking feels good when the driver speeds into the station. i noticed some A drivers really push some r179s so some speeds that i didnt know 8th ave line allows.
You perfectly explained it. I remember my R179 A motorman going 49mph into PABT A
@@edot_nyc my favorite part about traveling on the A lol. Also love it when they speed into 14th
The R179’s are their absolute best on the A. They FLY on that line & I love it.
R46: :(
The 179’s are a nice change of pace from the 160’s that are everywhere in the system. Living in DC, they are one hell of a lot better than the 7000 series that we have. The 179’s are quiet, smooth, and work quite well as of lately. Basically everything the 7000 series isn’t.
Hard to believe but I will take your word for it. I rode the 1000 series in Washington D.C. with my late mother on vacation in 1976.
The video we all needed. A fellow R179 enjoyer. The R179’s are my favorite too
You should do a video explaining all of the subway cars. While I consider myself a railfan, I still do have a hard time distinguishing all the cars in use.
I might create a video like that in the future.
I always love the fast feel of an R179 A train!
I love the R179s. They are probably my favorite subway cars, even when they were having their issues when first introduced. I love the subtle yes distinct differences to the other B division NTT trains and I love the unique traction motor sounds.
To my opinion, R179s feel like if R160 and R160B had a baby.
It was never really something to have against the 179 unless it's just the opinion but I was happy when they came out, gave a new feel for what the new technology would be like.
Glad we got them before r211 because the dimensions are correct. Allow for more seats and the correct looking wider windows. Preposterous the doors had to be so wide on the new ones!
I like the speed on these things and their traction motors are nice!
Same
I feel like having heard the r179 propulsion it's nearly identical to the DC Metro's 7000 series propulsion. Also I like those trains as well
I personally love the R179s. I like their propulsion, their design, & their performance on the 8th Ave & Jamaica lines. I wish they could have produced more of them.
The side door is smooth to open, and they have heated seats, which I like.
and dont forget the bottle dropping on the tracks at 0:49
Even though heaters (convection electric along the wall bases) on subway cars have no moving parts unlike the complex and maintenance heavy AC units, MTA sets the temperature at 55F at the ceiling, so NYC subway cars are always cold. People sit there in down parkas with their hoods up. At night (with no sun heating) tons of freezing maybe windy air enters at outdoor stops and the heat usually still never comes on.
They preform very nicely. The only thing I dislike about them is the Kathleen Campion takeover of the "The next stop is..." and "This is..." announcements on all route programs.
Yeah and if they add the R179 to more lines, then that voice is the only one you’ll hear in the announcements of the whole system. I’d rather the variety of different ones. The F has its own unique sound.
I don’t know about the railfans, yet as someone who “burn-tested” the R179s, we had many issues with them. The AAS software is much different than what is found in the R142-160s and programming it for your route is still cumbersome. “Cutting” the train is a PITA since there is less space between units when added up. There is more to the list but those were some of the main issues.
Finally someone who actually agrees that the R179 is not awful… there comfy for the A line super fast and sleek!
The R179's remind me of the R38's, because both were small orders, they both have bigger windows, and because of it, the R179's look slightly different from their sister NTT's the R143 and R160 just like the R38's did with their sister SMEE the R32's. The only thing I do not like is (just like with the R38's) the 207 Street Yard and the Pitkin Yard does not maintain them properly when it comes to keeping them clean (they need a car washing).
I feel like the NTTs are repeating history in a way. R143s are like R11s, experimental subway cars, except this time they ordered a good handful of R143s lol (and this is for CBTC of course). R160s are like R32s, numerous in quantity; R179s are as you said; and R211s will be like the R40s with a bold new design - even the gangway risks will be similar (R40s had the new slant and the safer R42 look lol), as well as the return of the large front bullets. I don't expect a R44 successor though. 😛
I mean the R179 is my personal favorite to and I don’t think they are that bad and have no idea why they are called lemons
also I have no idea why I’m crushing on trains 💀
I love the R179's, only thing I don't like is the trend they started with the MTA messing with the announcements, mixing up multiple voices per announcement.
Edit: The acceleration on the 179's is crazy, I absolutely love trains that accelerate fast.
Yeah they’re not lemons 🍋
They’re limes!
I actually like the look of the R179 and glad they're doing well. Next trip to NYC I need to get on one.
I really don’t mind them. Pretty unique and cool to me. I haven’t had any issues on them taking them on the A and C lines, which I take sometimes on the way to school. I also kinda like their propulsion sounds as well. Unique compared to the other traction motor. Like how the R142As is unique compared to the R142s and how the R143s is unique compared the R160s.
I honestly think these cars are pretty nice, despite the problems they’ve had in their early years. Their design is pretty nice, and the propulsion is really unique and different from the ones we’re used to on the other NTT’s.
The only problems I have with the R179 are the delayed announcements, and how it’s always Kathleen Campion’s voice saying “The Next Stop Is” or “This Is”, no matter what line the train is assigned to. Those are just only minor though.
As for the major problems, the speedometer is placed too high up. Like, if you’re operating the R179’s, you legit have to look up to see how fast you are going, and it can really be distracting as it takes your eyes off the tracks. I don’t know why Bombardier designed them like that, but really they should’ve just placed it closer to the controls of the train like all the other rolling stock in the system.
Other than that, these trains are pretty decent, and I hope we see some improvements with them as time goes on.
The R179s got an update for the speedometer displays on the TOD, so that’s not an issue anymore. The announcement issue is annoying, but after 5 years, I’ve just gotten used to it.
@@MysticTransit really? Thank god they fixed the issue with the speedometer.
Now if only they can try and fix the announcement issue, and not have only Kathleen Campion’s voice saying “The Next Stop Is” from the A/C. I would at least prefer Catherine Cowdery’s voice for the announcement, at least the one from the J/Z, L, and M.
@@VinceHere98 the R211s have the same thing with the voice, but I still find it hilarious and unfortunate that the R160s only had the "next and last stop" updated to just Kathleen. Updating both would be ok, but better to leave them alone.
I like the propulsion on the 179's
Same
I agree. They do sound somewhat spooky yet pleasant tbh…
Personally when they first arrived into the system, they became one of my favorite rolling stocks right next to the R32s, R46s, R62/As, and R142/As. I also like seeing the R179s on the (C) line, they fit extremely well on the (C) then it does on the (A) line (Personally I feel like that R46s fits extremely well on the (A) then it does on the (C) but that’s just my opinion). Even though I miss seeing the R32s on the (C), I feel like the R179s are a great replacement for it and they’re capable enough for the task! Overall, I really appreciate you for making this video about them. Cheers!
When thinking of the R179s improved reliability, i don't have a reason to call it a lemon.
Over here, across the Atlantic and Nordic ponds, our IC4 DMUs have proven to be the "Lemons" that the R179s are called for.
The IC4 has had numerous failures upon testing, like brake issues, doors not closing properly, coupling hatching getting stuck in closed position, etc.
Today, the IC4 is the least reliable train in DSBs fleet (as to what i've heard from other railfans here). They're uncomfortable to ride, they "hump" when braking and accelerating, they're loud, both inside and outside, and they make NOISE, when going through a curve at slow speed, which we don't really see a lot with the older IC3s sets.
Of course, the IC3 had it's fair share of issues too, when introduced. It's automatic gearing wasn't linked properly, it's softwares had lots of bugs, and were delayed to enter service by 4(?) years, starting in January 1990. The IC3s electrical brother, the IR4, had issues too. Having problems with "Noise currents" coming from their traction motors, which shut down electrical equipment on DSBs older Class EA locomotives, when passing them on their journeys.
Most of these issues with the IC3 and the IR4, were fixed by the start of the 21st Century. Making the IC3 the most reliable train of DSB, closely followed by our new Siemens Vectron Locomotive we recieved during the Pandemic.
Greetings from Copenhagen! ❤
It's so common to have issues early that get resolved later... unfortunately, many in my city still don't realize that fact, despite proven reliability and consistency of service after the first year of service.
Great documentary for the R179
Same here. Whenever I use the A and I see an R46 approaching, I make this slight frown lol. But while they still were running the R32s I would be grateful to see a R46 and even more grateful to see an R179 approaching.
Personally, I am all for the R143s and R179 I really love them both, especially when I was surprised on how fast the 179 was taking turns on the A after leaving Broadway junction heading to Euclid.
I like the r179 traction motors, I sounds quite soothing
Agreed.
In all honesty, while the R179 train fleet has since improved, I don’t know, but it seems like I’m still not completely well-adjusted to the R179s. Maybe one day once I do retire from railfanning I’ll probably give a round-trip on the R179 on any subway line a try
R179s are lowkey underrated. They're definitely much more pleasing to look at than the R160s and R211.
I hate these trains, not because of them having issues in the past but their ear bleeding propulsion sounds drive me insane, and also for me the LED lights are blinding especially underground and at night
I was on the (J) Line last week, it was a pleasant ride. I have two opinions: 1. Yes, the R179 did had a major hiccups, but as long as it was repaired and addressed then I'm cool with it. Opinion 2
If I was in charge of the MTA I would simplify all the cars as an exclusive lime such as R179 as the (J) & (Z).
I actually really like the r179 propulsion
Finally someone says the R142As aren’t reliable, I thought I was the only one who thought this. Jerome is not doing a great job with them.
4:32 spitting facts fr fr
I like the design off the wide-body. The slanted lights remind me of the r211s which are beautiful.
2:00; Good proof, MT [Mystic Transit]!
The fact is that it comes out of every subway yard or to begin service it also got M7 Pa ding a few years ago
5 years already omg I’m getting old
That’s how I feel 😂
5 years already, damn I was expecting you to say 3.
People also dont talk about the 179's LEDS, and the screen that shows the stations (forgot what its called.) It looks really nice.
For the motor sounds, I usually have a set of criteria which determines whether I like a train or not.
1. Screechiness- If the train produces a screech as it accelerates or decelerates, I'm more likely to find it annoying, and depending on how sharp it screeches, it can range from "it sounds okay (Skytrain Canada Line EMU) to "ouch my ears" (The Bombardier Aventra). A pure tone always sounds better and cleaner to me.
2. Pulsing Patterns and melody- When the pitch the motors give out jumps around such as on older multiple units from the 80s and 90s it's generally more interesting. The most boring train is a train which produces the same noise no matter what speed it is travelling at. A great train produces melodic sounds.
3. Pitch- Lower pitch generally sounds better. I generally don't like anything above ~2000Hz as it just gets irritating. Also no ear-piercing or harsh tones please.
4. Low-speed growl- Trains which produce a very deep, low gearbox growl at low speeds or a whirring noise as the motor speeds up are just more epic. Trains that don't growl are also fine but have less of a distinct character.
5. Chords- If a train produces humming noises (e.g. AC transformers or GTO choppers), I generally like it when the humming noises form a nice chord. This is why I like the humming of the BR Class 319.
6. Other random mechanical noises- Tap changer, relay or camshaft noises are always nice. They just add a sense of character that a lot of newer trains lack. Even an air hiss would be nice.
For DC motor trains, the pulsing patterns category changes to changes in motor sound. A motor which changes its sound (e.g. from growling to screaming) as it accelerates is more interesting.
On a scale of 0 to 10, I'll rate the R179 on each of the aspects:
Screechiness- 2. The motor sound is quite screechy and of a sharp tone.
Pulsing patterns and melody- 6. The motor does sound quite melodic but it is ruined by the screechiness.
Pitch- 5. The pitch of the sounds is meh. It's slightly irritating and quite high pitch.
Growl- 2 No growl whatsoever and the actual sound of the motor spinning up is very very quiet.
Chords- 3. There really aren't that many chords and they don't sound that nice.
Random mechanical noises- 3. A lot of newer trains don't have much of these beyond the air hiss.
Total score: 21/60
As for the Alstom R160, the pitch is... well it's very irritating and harsh and the pulsing patterns are boring, but at least it doesn't screech as much.
R179s are underrated and overhated for no reasons
R179s are very much my favorite rollingstock right beside with the R62
To be honest my favorite traction motor sound is the R188. If we're talking worldwide it would probably be barts A&B series or Siemens charger sounds
Not going to lie I was very upset at the early failures and now I'm so glad all of the problems were fixed.
I really enjoy riding them and the traction system is a very different sound. Coming from a transit family,
regardless of issues, I can never stay mad. 🙂
4:12 Zee istg you be havin me cracking up 🤣🤣🤣
I presonally love the look of these trains. I see a lot of videos crticizing the look of ny trains and north american trains in general. Personally I love the look of ny trains and other north amercian cities. I hope we always keep the stainless steel look.
I had no idea this rail car was hated
My favorite thing about the R179s is their wider windows. Which makes them a perfect match on the J, with one of the longest continuous elevated sections in the system. I also like how they look; I can pick apart the subtle differences and do enjoy these more than the R160s.
My least favorite thing, and is not enough for me to say "I hate it", is how "slow" the computers are, most noticeable by the large gaps in between common announcements. While the propulsion has a nice sound, it's annoying to listen to when at low speeds for too long - still better than R143s though.
Rode plenty of these on the J and I'm happy they're here. With their additional seating, I hope they'll still serve Far Rockaway trips on the A when R211s dominate. And we'll see how much faster they get once CBTC is active.
They clearly have a modern suspension system unlike all the older cars. They also have the worst seating of any system on earth - low flat shallow hard plastic benches that are painful for the average sized person to sit on because the shallowness and flatness of the seat bottoms puts all your upper body weight on your pelvic bones. With no individual seats people can spread out and it's not uncommon for someone to be sleeping across them. Shorter people can't reach the ceiling rails but they are excellent for "performers" to swing from. They have the ancient NYC arrangement of small windows which are also crudely installed (look how slick London windows look), half the window area of the subway cars elsewhere. They use pocket doors instead of outside opening doors (like London and Vienna). London Transport says the outside opening doors are cheaper and easier to maintain and repair. They probably seal better too. And the interiors looks like a hospital operating room.
THIS VID IS SO TRUE I FINALLY FOUND SOMEONE ELSE WHO THINKS THE R160S ARE BORING
0:47 0:54 the tragic death of two cup when they fall on the tracks
I like these cars when i rode it on the (A) it was a pleasant ride on the rockaways and it didnt sway as much as the R46's and got to broad channel way faster.
Good question about the subway
Still the best sounding new tech NYC subway car in my opinion.
I always loved these trains over the R46 and R68 especially on the A.
Me too
The R179 is my favorite Train too
I like the R179 albeit my favorites are still the R62 and R46's. The R179 definitely some of the most spacious feeling cars and I really like that. I only got beef with the handrails above the seats cuz I bump my head on em alot.
I actually do like the design of the R179 as well!
Their nickname will forever be the Lemons 🍋
Most raillfans don't work here. 179s have two less traction motors per set and are currently the fastest revenue equipment running. AC traction motors use vvvf inverters which are responsible for the noise but also vary with manufacturer, similar to the GE/Westinghouse group switches on legacy equipment. 6:01
No perpendicular seating for looking out the window and obnoxious lighting = a substantially less enjoyable ride. However, to be fair, their status as the worst cars in the system are soon to be replaced as the 211’s managed to take all of the negative aspects of the of the 179s and add a few more, like smaller windows, fewer seats, and the removal of the corner seats. Soon we’ll be riding in windowless cattle cars without and seating at all and lighting that would make a Xerox machine envious 😂.
I understand that the two times they were pulled from service led to a lot of skepticism on their reliability. However, since they re-entered service, they have since become more reliable. Every new train will have its moments.
I think the R179s and the R160s are both very similar, and I don't mind either of them. I don't care for the R179s' propulsion though, since I feel it's too high-pitched
R179 are not made with the lemons right
Glad to see they are no longer lemons. In fairness to Bombardier, (RIP), the specifications were changed after conract signed so this makes things harder for builder. In fairness to MTA/NYC, Bombardier was doomed to fail. It not only lauched the C-Series aircraft programme, something orders of magnitudes larger than it had ever built, but also laiunched Global 7500 and Lear 85 business jets at the same time. And when they got late, cash ran out and Bombardier syphoned off cash from Bombardier Transportation to subsidize the commercial and business jet divisions. As a result, Transportation didn't have the funds to modernize pkants and fix problems and started to fail to deliver working products. Delays and deffective products in many cities.
As cash ran out, the Québec government got Bombardier Inc to spin off the C-Series project into separate company which it re-capitalized.
Similarly, the Caisse de Dépôt du Québec (provincial retirement fund) got Bombardier to spin off Trabsportation into a separate company which it recapitalized but with a caveat: despite being money losing, it was required to pay guaranteed dividends to the CDPQ, but not to Bombardier (so shareholders never saw a cent from this) . And the requirement to py dividends for a money losing company worsened its ability to fix its delivery problems, and the less cash it had, the less it had the ability to fi problems in its products. (though the quick influx of cash from recapitalization did have short term help).
Meanwhile, Bombardier cancelled the Lear 85 project after having invested billions, but kept sinking money into the Global 7500 which worsened its condition.
The Caisse de Dépôt designed its deal to be unsustainable to force Bombardier Inc to Sell Bombardier Transportation because it could neither afford to buy back the CDPQ shares , nor pay that guaranteed dividend. The CDPQ conviently arranged for Alstom to buy what was left of Bombardier Transportation with CDPQ converting its 35% ownership of failed Bombardier Transportation into 18% of healthy Asltom. All proceeds of the sale went to creditors, shareholders got nothing.
The same happened to all othert parts of Bombardier who liquidated all its assets except for the business jet division which nobody wanted to buy. And buyers were smart to buy assets but not debts, which left Bombardier Inc saddled with huge debts and only 2 business jets left as products.
Towards the end, because of Bombardie's bad image, the only way for it to win contracts was to bid so low that the transit agencies agreed to take risks. Alstom agreed to buy Bombardier in part because of a very large order book but had underestimated that all those contracts were won because proces set so low as to not be profitable. And Alstom had to invest to fix production problems in order to avoid paying all the lagal costs of late deliveries and product defects.
So your R179s are thankfully reliable now, but they are part of the downfall of Bombardier. nNew York telling Bombardier to not bother bidding on future contracts anymore was another (self inflicted) nail in Bombardier's coffin.
BTW, in 2019, I was passed by an R179 on NY 9 just south of Keeseville NY. (I was on bike).
Twice the PA system has died on me and once the train just put itself breaks in emergency for LITERALLY no reason. We didn't hit anything, no burst pipe, no one pulled the cord. The majority of my serious mechanical issues as a crew member have been on these trains.
Agreed , always would prefer them over the R46 in my opinion. The propulsion is nice too. The thumbnail looks amazing don't know if its edited or what station that is but seems near the Rockaways.
Thats near broad channel
By unique, I’m referring to the propulsion sounds mostly
They are good but I dislike the annoucements
He said “Let me tell you what this sh!t mean!”
Personally, I like the R179s and I like how shiny they are compared to the 143s/160s. My only problem with them is that for the time period they came out in, there was more than enough time to have Color LED Screens. But that's literally it
You know, I've been coming up with retronyms for R-type subway for a while now. For instance, I've been referring to the R44 and R46 as the Acceleran series (from the word "accelerate", denoting the latter subway car's high speed record). I also remembered that I named the R143 as the Platina (from the Latin word for "silver"), so I guess I should include the R160 and R179 as part of the Platina series. I guess this whole retronym business started when I learned long ago that the R33WF and R36 were called Redbirds, and the R32 was referred to as the Brightliner.
The R179 are great subway cars definitely redeemed itself after the Testing Fiasco 😅
I mean The r179 are made with the Lemons right
When someone calls the R179 a lemon, I say thats nothing compared to the 4D train. PS: It was broken more often then working lol
I like the propulsion of it. That’s about it.
Well they were technically lemons, damn near everything that came in post-R42 was a lemon in one way or another.
Other than that pirate hook handle and the speedometer being up in the air, they're my favorite cars to operate
the only reason why i dont likw the r179 is because i have been in a near death situation with them.
R179s are so overhated just because 2019 but now they have the highest MDBF and is now the most reliable train in the system. R179s were always my favorite regardless
4:57; The R179 trains has a different acceleration than the R160s, R143s, and the R46s.
Someone had to say it. I have felt like the only person that has loved these cars, they are my favorite trains in the system.
they’re actually kinda smooth, I wonder who even calls them lemons nowadays.
I like the R179’s they’re like the black sheep of the family
Honestly railfans only hate the R179s because of them being taken OOS twice and being built by the now defunct bombardier company. Yet the R179s have since improved and fun fact, their reliability is even higher than the R160s
(And before you start coming at me about my “opinion”, the MTA’s official MDBF report states it too.)
The 179s suck when the tracks are wet. I had one sliding into North Conduit but we still made a station stop. Don't let it be morning dew with them in the rock. Lots of issues are from short conductors who have a hard time with observing the platforms. I'm 6'3 I have no issues working on them. The window handle was also modified because the original ones pressed into conductors chests. Alot of train ops don't like them because the master controller only turns one way. The 143,160, 142 and 142A/188 conversions goes both ways. The speedometer is not in the operators vision unless they're standing up.
I love the R179’s & have loved them from the 1st time I rode on them. The ride quality on them is fantastic. It’s like it’s gliding on a cloud. It’s a comfortable & spacious train and you can hear the announcements very clearly & the sound from the propulsion is 🔥. I love hearing them come in and out of a station. I have fought for these trains even when everyone was hating on them and now, I’m enjoying watching all the haters eat crow while these R179’s keep on doing the damn thing on the rails! Ha ha haaaaaa! 😂😂😂
I have been waiting so long for a video like this to surface, OK so I’m a just go right ahead and speak my mind on this one like I would any other matter and I really don’t give a damn if somebody gets upset or offended really because I feel as if this needs to be addressed, the fact that certain folks like to refer to these trains as “lemons” just completely blows my mind literally, not to mention the fact that these workhorses literally go so far above and beyond the call of duty to move 8 1/2 million New Yorkers daily, and yet a lot of trains including these ones [the R-179s] don’t really get the credit that they so well deserve and that needs to change, seriously calling trains “lemons” is so far beyond played out It’s not even funny like that Whole lemons term is just so tired at this point, all subway cars no matter what make, year or model are going to have issues Somewhere down the line I mean that’s just how it is, nothing’s gonna be 100% perfect, that’s not how life works, now some may say they have a favorite class of subway car that they may like, or a specific type of subway car class that they may appreciate more than others and that’s fine, but what I’m trying to say is don’t knock these machines [TRAINS] that are constantly working to move millions of New Yorkers from point A to point B every single day because what most folks don’t seem to realize is that if we did not have these trains, or a Metro System for that matter, this city sure as hell wouldn’t move because that’s one thing that New York cannot survive without is its Metro System and we all know that, so to all of those out there who don’t like certain subway car types or just dislike the MTA altogether just keep in mind that if it weren’t for them, we’d be in a world of trouble in terms of transit, because how else would you get around every day? Just take a moment and allow this to sink in and see what you come up with in the end, as for me well I think it’s more than safe to say that I’m pro MTA And I give them, their Trains AND their buses all the love and respect in the world because again if it weren’t for them New York City would be in one hell of a tight spot in terms of transit and that’s the honest to God truth right there.
I always stood by my sister when everyone dragged her I’m glad she became who she is today 😌
Every subway car was a lemon once. Take the R68, for example. It was a lemon just like the R179, but after a bit of fixing here, and there, they were the greatest chads in the subway. Not every car is perfect.
These cars also had a problem going thru the car wash which is why they always appeared to be dirty.
Thanks for defending the R179s