Hello from one of the 6 people who used Reference Point almost on a daily basis! :-) - I use it for all sorts of things, most while travelling and roaming around on my way to a waypoint. I also use it in new areas with large car parks to find my car.
Thank you so much for this video Ray. I've got the Venu 2 now and I wanted a comparison between the Forerunner 965 and Epix 2.... And you deliver it in its detailed brilliance.
@@GhostWorld80 my venu's screen has burn in so bad it's almost unreadable at this point. If venu 3 doesn't come out soon I'll have to switch to something else
Man It feels like I just bought the 955 yesterday and now there’s a new out. Thanks for the detailed overview…I can only imagine how much time this took.
Coming from the Fenix 6 Pro, there is no better reason and time to switch now to the FR 965. Everything we ever wanted from Fenix 7 / Epix 2, but for less money 🥳
100% I went for FR 965 coming from a Fenix 6X as I wanted better display with same size and if possible lighter watch. I will keep my 6X when it gets dirty and rough so not that much worried about durability. Specially map and menu are a winner for me.
@@deanrobbins8102 If it helps, I’ve had a 935 since 2017 - and its still going strong - it just won’t die. I’ve banged it hard up against sandstone rocks and its had some hits, but there is still nothing wrong with it. I have since invested in a $3 glass screen protector, and a TPU shell for it to take on those rougher trail runs (the sandstone incident scared me!) - but the truth is, my 935 still looks like new. I look at the 965 and I’d love to get one, but with the 935 still in perfect working order, I can’t justify the expense. I’ll get whatever is in the 9xx forerunner series when my current one bites the dust.
@@deanrobbins8102Same here, I think I’m def going 965 at this point you just get so much without having to spend too much. In terms of durability I think it’s solid but a screen protector would help
Thanks a lot for this comparison. It’s great because you are comparing features from two different Garmin groups. And as you say - not sure if Garmin even knows all the differences!
2:38 there is one HUGE difference if I am correct. in 965 the bezel is lower than the gorilla glass, while in Epix the bezel protects the glass (at least it looks like this from this angle). And to be honest this is a deal breaker for me in FR965. This is exactly the reason why all my sport watches are/were G-Shock and all my smartwatches are/were damaged.
Dude, you are a real one. I like how you explain the differences between watches and why are you using them. Also, mentioning the excessive tools that most people looking for in a watch, are not going to use over the other watch. Most content creators will juice up the products or have a HEAVY BIAS towards one. You are great my good sir
Assuming the 965 doesn't have Sapphire, how is the glass as far as scratching? I've scratched every watch I ever owned until I went to a Fenix with Sapphire and the raised bezel.
I've had the fr 965 for three days, and had the epix 2 for over a year. The bigger screen is a winner, and why I'll keep the fr 965 over the epix..But also found more differences (maybe some bugs?) Audio, is very average on the 965. Base is distorted and the voice call outs are also distorted. (using same headset- Shokz Open Run Pro) Going to the light mode, it always goes to one below full brightness, on the epix, it would go to last setting. Scrolling is a lot smoother on the 965 compared to the epix.. Did a 27km trail run at night, and although had it set to always on display, the screen would turn off (on the 965), having to tap the screen or move my wrist to make it come back on. Morning report would ask you to view it, instead of going straight to it.
As someone who purchased a 255 less than a year ago I feel like Garmin is hurting some of their loyal customers. Most Garmin users pick up a watch knowing their watch will not be refreshed quickly and usually getting new features. I think it’s too bad for those who purchased a 255/955 only for these watches to be released less than a year later and for 255 owners to not get the training readiness feature which could easily be implemented in a software update. Great review as always you are a true professional and I always watch your content before making these type of purchases.
Thanks for the comparison. I compared quite a few different watches before finally selecting my next one. I ended up getting the Epix 2 Sapphire a month ago. Now that the 965 is out, I'm still glad I have the Epix. I wear a watch all of the time and am somewhat hard on my watches. So, I'm glad I have the sapphire lens to help reduce scratching. I also like the titanium back plate instead of plastic. I only wish it had the smooth backs of the Apple and Google watches. I guess I'll just have to live with the indentations in my wrist for a while longer. Overall, I'm happy with my choice.
I knew the 965 was coming and I picked up the Epix when it was on sale. I like the look of it and really wanted the sapphire glass. That being said, the 965 is a beast. At some point I think we are going to see a new Epic or Fenix that has a 1.4 Amoled with a flashlight, mic, ECG, possibly solar Amoled and all the features of Garmin's other watches. Usually there is a couple years between Garmin releases but I think the new Fenix/Epix is coming sooner rather than later.
I just bought the epix and love it. The 965 has my attention but I like the style of the epix/Fenix better so I went with this. Wil not go back to anything else now.
Thanks Ray. Great review. Love my Epix Sapphire only thing I would change it for is if they add LTE to it but they seem to have dropped adding LTE to their newer watches.
@@Dcrainmaker - We need to make another video called “Why Garmin Why?” - where we figure out why Garmin doesn’t have a single code base with branches for different models. There’s no reason to have two of the same features be so wildly different. It’s just inefficient. Why Garmin why?
@@mlegrand It must be painful to be a software engineer at Garmin. Their stubbornness to add or improve features as well. You could take these devices back 10 years in a time machine and only the hardware would impress anyway.
Been using a Fenix 6 Sapphire since 2020 and will probably upgrade to the Forerunner 965. I would consider the Epix Gen 2, but that price is just too steep. I had a stint with the Apple Watch Ultra, and while I enjoyed the experience it just wasn’t really what I liked about a fitness watch. The AWU is basically just a smart phone on your wrist which is cool, but not necessary at all. Too much info imo. The Fenix has been great for me as a sportswatch and minimal smart watch. I can see texts/calls coming in and decide if they need to be answered right away or not. That’s basically all I need from a smartwatch.
I am probably the only person in the comments to use this but what I love about my Fenix is i can connect it to the handheld device for my Garmin GPS Dog collars so I can see their location without having to get out my hand held while hunting or trail running. I'm not sure if the forerunner series has this feature though.
I know I'm late to the game on this video, but figured I'd chime in. Been a Fenix user since the 3. Went to a 5x then to an epix 2. Love the Epix but also had a Venu 2 plus for a lightweight option for work days. I just sold the venu 2 plus and replaced it with the forerunner 965. I am absolutely loving the 965. I don't feel like I'm giving up much from the epix as a daily wear, it's lighter and slimmer, and the UI looks great. I still have my Epix but the 965 is getting a ton more use. After wearing 51mm Fenix watches and even the epix gen 2, the forerunner feels like a feather.
I can't believe Garmin still has a Forerunner team and a Fenix/Epix team - it's so stupid. They should have one code base with all features and just turn off those not relevant for the individual watches. Then all you have to worry about is cases and bands. Any new feature propagates across all relevant watches when released.
They will keep doing this as long as we keep updating our purchase to whatever they release.. I am already feeling Epix 2 might just see the end of updates
Exactly what I said! And they should stop making so many different watches, it's confusing for consumers and expensive for them to develop and produce. It makes no sense
I saved the position of an elderberry tree once so I could come back and get the berries when ripe. I then formatted my watch and lost the saved position. Recently found out you can save all this stuff and the settings as well.
Great video, I was just about to get a 955 but then saw the 965 was coming. Then I saw the Epix 2 (I'm not very up to date) and was wondering what the differences were. So thanks for going through this. I'm definitely getting the Forunner as I prefer that slighter form factor, I'm just not 100% sure if I want the Amoled as I actually quite like the older transflective (?) screens and I'm not convinced it's worth the extra $. The added resolution of the Amoled is nice though. I'm not really a runner, my knees can't take it but I cycle (mostly MTB) and do some hiking so having the maps as a backup is my thought. I also need something to help me train back to reasonable fitness and updating from a 735xt to all these new training tips/prompts will hopefully help.
Amoled is better for maps or satellite images. It support more colors compared to mip display which I think was 64 colors only. Also watchfaces looks great on Amoled. I have older epix and it was first Grmin watch with touchscreen. I only use it on hiking trips. For daily life I prefer my GW4 with Amoled and I will never go back to transflective display. Watch is something you dont look always like bike gps for example. So Amoled for watch is big deal for me.
@DCrainmaker Thanks for excellent video. One of the major differences on those is the rounded edge on screen glass. I think they went wrong way with that. If you have a bezel, there should be straight glass. Rounded glass also practically prevents using any protector on that screen. That rounded glass seems to be also on a higher level than bezel so it is more prone to damage.
Just a shoutout for the great comparison. I watched this several times lasyear trying to decide which one to get and ultimately went with the Epix simply because it went on sale when I felt like making a purchase and got it for $300+ less than the FR965. I am so happy with it, but do still wonder what could have been haha.
In the opening shots, you can already see scratches on the case of the 965. So ruggedness is undoubtedly a differentiator between the two devices! I have always used Fenix devices because I wear my watch 24/7 and they need to be able to take a beating.
I may be in the minority, but I keep coming back to the Fenix. I can see the screen fine in darker environments with wrist gesture backlight. The ruggedness and battery life.
I do have a very basic Garmin watch, with a plastic back, and it gives me a rash when wearing too long. Never experienced this with any other plastic watch. For this reason alone I would prefer an epix over the new forerunner, besides better water resistance etc
100% agree that the new Forerunner is the better choice. Lighter , thinner, bigger screen and obviously more updated plus a better value. If you’re looking for something more rugged looking made with nicer materials, perhaps get the Epix or go all out and get the Marq. But like you said before a sports watch is not something that you will buy and hand down in your will like a Rolex or Cartier.
Love Garmin watches, now using my Fenix 6 pro and looking actively for any reason to change to 965. However, current situation with their lineup resembles situation with Nokia phones that we had back in the day - multiple models, working great, but not so sexy as recent apple products:/
As someone who purchased the Epix 2 just over a month ago, I'm pretty bummed out by the release of the 965. My previous watch was a forerunner and my biggest concern about the Epix was the extra weight. Having a new forerunner come out so soon after my purchase that is pretty much at feature parity with the Epix 2, but with a larger screen and lighter body at a cheaper price, that gives me some regrets gotta be honest.
I am of the mindset that the expensive watches should have all the features of the cheaper ones as long as the hardware supports it and there should be consistency between the UI of the devices. Garmin frustrates me sometimes
Think of anything that you have that's software related. You always have tiers. It's exactly the same. Eventually 1000 bhp motors will just be cheap enough to use and because of the extra power you will have them throttled and unlocked via subx. Hardware wise. Even CPUs have binning. It's unfortunate but we aren't going backwards anytime soon. So this is just something we have to accept. Unless we learn to break it lol😅
Thanks Ray , and Yes high time Gamin software teams were more streamlined! What a waste of resources and also results in less than ideal user experiences and bugs! There seems to be less glare on the Epix I must say. I tried the 265 and the screen in activities was quite irritating as the gesture is not sensitive enough and the AOD is to dim so one has to double take to see data, I am a 955 user currently.
Well done for this! I wonder if 965 golf works. The 955's shot tracking has been broken since after one of the first updates. Worked perfectly on the 945 and even the 935...
The unanswered question for me is WHY is the GPS only run time so much better on the Epix? It suggests either (a) significant battery optimisations or better hardware on the 965 making the best of a smaller battery or (b) doing something differently on some other function which eats battery on the 965 in this mode. The answer may be interesting. Are we going to see much longer run times on the next Epix / Fenix version than the current ones?
I think the subtle UI differences are under valued. I have the EPIX and it is simply a FENIX with an OLED display. It’s a FENIX in every way from the menu’s graphics, watch faces, colors, etc. Nothing about the Epix takes advantage of the OLED display. Yes, the colors and brightness look better than the Fenix, but its the same color options as the Fenix. Notice on the 965, the colors are deeper and richer with shading. the 965 is now changing the UI to take advantage of the advanced display. The menus and watch faces are more pleasing to the eye. The EPIX should really be sold as a FENIX w/OLED, and not as a new watch category. Why have a screen with a million color options but only display the same 10 you get with Fenix?? The only watch faces available for the EPIX are the same fenix watch face options. You don’t get any VENU style watch faces for the EPIX. There is nothing about the EPIX that is worth the extra $$. My opinion after owning since launch.
Thanks Ray for the great video, 965 is now on sale in China, but it costs ￥4980（about $710）, I 'm using Suunto 5 for running and hike, have a Fenix 3 HR before. Ever wanted to choose between EPIX and 965, now I decide to wait for the black friday's amazon, choose 965
I own the epix (gen) because I like the style more. Replace the bands with leather ones and still looks good. Would have like the bigger screen on it tough. Not a really big fan of the new font, I hope Garmin keeps the one on the epix
@@carlosrauljimenez Let's hope they make it optional then, the UI on the 965 looks to cartoonish with the new font, I would prefer the bold text for the selections(Fenix) instead of the color gradient on the 965
Seems to me that for all intents and purposes, the only real difference between the Epix 2 and the 965 is the design. Now that could play an important factor in once choice between the two, though in the past individuals chose the more expensive watches because of the software differences? That gap as of now, seems to have been closed with the 965. I suspect that Garmin had to stop any potential bleeding from the defections to the Apple Ultra. The 965 gives individuals 99.9% of the Epix 2 .A better and larger Watch display (pixel density), and What seems to be better color saturation, based on the TH-cam reviews. You ultimately have to enjoy the Watch you are wearing, especially if you wear it 24/7. I suspect that most garmin wearers choose garmin watches because of its functions and not so much the look, if so everyone would have a different watch other than a Garmin. I would say this was a great decision by Garmin, and a no-brainer for any individual who wants an Epix 2, with a slightly different design! UPDATE: I tried the 965 and something was missing....The watch face from the Epix pro and the build, front and back and ruggedness feel. I sent the 965 back and purchased the Epix Pro. The 965 felt more like a running watch and not an outdoor enthusiast watch.
Garmin really needs to simplify and unity the OS across all watches. Something like a GarminOS with the same understanding as watchOS on Apple Watches. Make it unified across all watches with the same kind of menus and descriptions and just point out the differences. It seems they have different software teams for fenix, forerunner and so on... I can't imagine the unnecessary costs of that.
Yup, they are seperate teams. It's definitely time for some convergence. Seperate teams for specific features makes sense - but less so for the base OS.
I had the Venu but got fed up with charging it all the time. I had a Fenix 5X already so changed the Venu for an Instinct 2 Solar. I ended up selling the Fenix 5X as it was getting a bit old. I now miss the maps and all that good stuff. The 965 looks as though it might be a good option covering most of the good points of all of them. I have found that the solar charging on the Instinct makes very little if any difference so doubt I will miss that.
I'm coming from the venue sq (first watch) to the venu2s (for music). Now I'm looking at the 965, I realize I need the maps because I need routes and I travel.
So the most important thing that may be critical to the average user is the presence of a sapphire for some Epix models. But is it worth such an overpayment?
There's zero differences in maps/navigation except as noted. I spent many many hours in the maps especially, and had initially expected it to be a much wider difference, but in reality, Garmin has quietly added so many features to the FR955 over this past fall/winter, that by time the FR965 came out, there was a surprising level of parity.
Just when I thought I had my mind made up! I’ve got a 945 and was going to upgrade to a 955 Solar…but the 965 is the same price! Go with the solar or skip the Gen and get the newer 965? 🤔
Folks with Epix2 or Fenix7 experience; can you increase the font on UI? Did not see that upon basic Googling so figured I ought to ask. Guessing it may be why the Data Fields on the 965 might be limited to 6 total vs 8 on the Epix perhaps? Thanks if anyone can confirm.
It looks like you can pick up an epix gen 2 sapphire cheaper than a 965 now with Black Friday offers. Currently coming from an original Venu. What would everyone recommend?
Just got my 965!! Super like it!! the screen is brilliant and it doesn't burn out the battery as quick as I thought. I barely remember when it was the last time charged my watch. Also, the charging was quick also I remember it was 30% left before I went for a shower and after 25 mins it is 89 % already. Light and soft band. don't need to worry to kill my wife accidentally when I wear my fenix 7 to sleep =)
@@UmbertoUguccioni My condition will be a bit different cuz normally I run 3 days a week and also use as heart rate sensor for my edge. But according to my friend's words, stay always on can stay for more than a week easily.
In this video you said the 965 would be the one you prefer. How would that stack now with the pro version but the 42mm. The smaller pro would not be as bulky and retain all the new features added to the pro that are not on the 965. Or would you still prefer the 965. Maybe another video. The hill-endurance score most likely I’m guessing stay on these pros.
Was thinking of upgrading from an Epix for the bigger display in a smaller body but the 6 data fields limit is an outright deal breaker. FR965 has the same 1.4” display size as the Fenix 7x (which can also do 8) AND has a much higher pixel density, yet it is limited to 6 fields?? 🤦♂️
@DCrainmaker Great work ! Any insight if Garmin plans on supporting sapphire glass on their next Forerunner watch ? Just like many here, this is the last missing bit to go 965 ;-)
Just two comments: 1: the 6 vs 8 data fields is clearly an aesthetic decision, the fonts and spacing on the 965 is just bigger. Will that be changed? TBD. It should as some runners are data junkies but it would require the UI to break a rule, so, we'll see. 2: interesting that the 965 smaller form factor gives same battery life as epix w smaller screen. Is the epix battery a tiny bit bigger? Was power consumption reduced on the 965 via better technology? Regardless Ray, you nailed everything once again and the community (including Garmin!) continues to owe you thanks for what you do.
Thanks. Yeah, realistically we're looking at 14+ months newer tech here - even more given how much stockpiling Garmin actaully did on Epix prior to launch. So it appears the daily power consumption is lower (whereas the GNSS side seems roughly the same).
THANK YOU. Excellent comparison! I've been using the FR945 for a year+ but then I tried the Coros Apex Pro 2 a month ago. Both are excellent watches. Kuddos to Coros' APP. If the 965 hadn't been released before my 30 day return date with Coros, I would have kept the Coros. I'm 52 years young and the 1.4" amoled display sold me. I NEED TO SEE IT. Coros AP2 is a GREAT watch but I'm still familiar with my 945 so my decision was a no-brainer. I'm looking forward to your deep dive wth the FR965. Ordered the 965 a week ago (delivers in 5-8 weeks as of now). On paper, it's everything I could want/need in a watch and then some, IMO. Thanks again!
These videos are just great. Thank you. One question. Do you know or have you asked from Garmin why doesn't their Sport watches include very common sports like basketball, soccer, etc?
They do have now (1 year later) but please tel me how do you intend to play basketball with your watch on the wrist? Not only you cant throw the ball normaly its even dangerous to scratch someone with it. Thus forbitten in games. I see no point having all this sports.
@@meho9668yes, it's often forbidden to wear a watch when playing basketball, or other team sports. But not always. And you can record the activity with just your chest strap on, but start it from the watch, you then leave to the bench (or bag). And yes, now it's available, but still waiting for these type of activities to appear in Strava 😆
omg it is so difficult to figure out what I need in Garmins line up... Its so easy to "upgrade" up the models... maybe thats on purpose??? I started at the FR255 and before you know it I am cross comparing a Epix, 7Pro, and AW ultra... I am still leaning twards the simple FR255 only because of the vibrant band color options.
Hi! For the 965, is it possible (via an app or otherwise) to display the hours/minutes in the "traditional" way, i.e. with hands? (i.e. like on the Epix-gen-2 or any "classical" watch)?? Thanks in advance!
Hello from one of the 6 people who used Reference Point almost on a daily basis! :-) - I use it for all sorts of things, most while travelling and roaming around on my way to a waypoint. I also use it in new areas with large car parks to find my car.
Thank you so much for this video Ray. I've got the Venu 2 now and I wanted a comparison between the Forerunner 965 and Epix 2.... And you deliver it in its detailed brilliance.
Same here. But will you upgrade ? Venu delivers everything I need from a sports standpoint. Plus not bulky during sleep
Same here ... Waiting for venu 3 I think
Same here, I love my Venue 2 plus but with all the running I'm doing now I really need a watch with maps so I'll be upgrading to the Forerunner 965
@@GhostWorld80 my venu's screen has burn in so bad it's almost unreadable at this point. If venu 3 doesn't come out soon I'll have to switch to something else
Thanks so much for the support - I appreciate it
Man It feels like I just bought the 955 yesterday and now there’s a new out. Thanks for the detailed overview…I can only imagine how much time this took.
Coming from the Fenix 6 Pro, there is no better reason and time to switch now to the FR 965. Everything we ever wanted from Fenix 7 / Epix 2, but for less money 🥳
My only fear is durability. Sapphire glass on my Fenix 3 HR made it virtually indestructible. I am also leaning towards the 965 as well.
100% I went for FR 965 coming from a Fenix 6X as I wanted better display with same size and if possible lighter watch. I will keep my 6X when it gets dirty and rough so not that much worried about durability. Specially map and menu are a winner for me.
@@deanrobbins8102 If it helps, I’ve had a 935 since 2017 - and its still going strong - it just won’t die. I’ve banged it hard up against sandstone rocks and its had some hits, but there is still nothing wrong with it.
I have since invested in a $3 glass screen protector, and a TPU shell for it to take on those rougher trail runs (the sandstone incident scared me!) - but the truth is, my 935 still looks like new.
I look at the 965 and I’d love to get one, but with the 935 still in perfect working order, I can’t justify the expense. I’ll get whatever is in the 9xx forerunner series when my current one bites the dust.
@@deanrobbins8102Same here, I think I’m def going 965 at this point you just get so much without having to spend too much. In terms of durability I think it’s solid but a screen protector would help
Thanks a lot for this comparison. It’s great because you are comparing features from two different Garmin groups. And as you say - not sure if Garmin even knows all the differences!
2:38 there is one HUGE difference if I am correct. in 965 the bezel is lower than the gorilla glass, while in Epix the bezel protects the glass (at least it looks like this from this angle). And to be honest this is a deal breaker for me in FR965. This is exactly the reason why all my sport watches are/were G-Shock and all my smartwatches are/were damaged.
Dude, you are a real one. I like how you explain the differences between watches and why are you using them. Also, mentioning the excessive tools that most people looking for in a watch, are not going to use over the other watch. Most content creators will juice up the products or have a HEAVY BIAS towards one.
You are great my good sir
Assuming the 965 doesn't have Sapphire, how is the glass as far as scratching? I've scratched every watch I ever owned until I went to a Fenix with Sapphire and the raised bezel.
I've had the fr 965 for three days, and had the epix 2 for over a year.
The bigger screen is a winner, and why I'll keep the fr 965 over the epix..But also found more differences (maybe some bugs?)
Audio, is very average on the 965. Base is distorted and the voice call outs are also distorted. (using same headset- Shokz Open Run Pro)
Going to the light mode, it always goes to one below full brightness, on the epix, it would go to last setting.
Scrolling is a lot smoother on the 965 compared to the epix..
Did a 27km trail run at night, and although had it set to always on display, the screen would turn off (on the 965), having to tap the screen or move my wrist to make it come back on.
Morning report would ask you to view it, instead of going straight to it.
Nice work! Make me a sapphire 965 Garmin and we'll have a real killer combo!
As someone who purchased a 255 less than a year ago I feel like Garmin is hurting some of their loyal customers. Most Garmin users pick up a watch knowing their watch will not be refreshed quickly and usually getting new features. I think it’s too bad for those who purchased a 255/955 only for these watches to be released less than a year later and for 255 owners to not get the training readiness feature which could easily be implemented in a software update. Great review as always you are a true professional and I always watch your content before making these type of purchases.
Thanks for the comparison. I compared quite a few different watches before finally selecting my next one. I ended up getting the Epix 2 Sapphire a month ago. Now that the 965 is out, I'm still glad I have the Epix. I wear a watch all of the time and am somewhat hard on my watches. So, I'm glad I have the sapphire lens to help reduce scratching. I also like the titanium back plate instead of plastic. I only wish it had the smooth backs of the Apple and Google watches. I guess I'll just have to live with the indentations in my wrist for a while longer. Overall, I'm happy with my choice.
I knew the 965 was coming and I picked up the Epix when it was on sale. I like the look of it and really wanted the sapphire glass. That being said, the 965 is a beast. At some point I think we are going to see a new Epic or Fenix that has a 1.4 Amoled with a flashlight, mic, ECG, possibly solar Amoled and all the features of Garmin's other watches. Usually there is a couple years between Garmin releases but I think the new Fenix/Epix is coming sooner rather than later.
I just bought the epix and love it. The 965 has my attention but I like the style of the epix/Fenix better so I went with this. Wil not go back to anything else now.
U predicted the future
I just bought the epix also on sale for $450 cheaper then the 965
Thanks Ray. Great review. Love my Epix Sapphire only thing I would change it for is if they add LTE to it but they seem to have dropped adding LTE to their newer watches.
Glad you made this so no one else has to. 65+ Ouch 😓
Haha...now wishing someone else had made it!
@@Dcrainmaker - We need to make another video called “Why Garmin Why?” - where we figure out why Garmin doesn’t have a single code base with branches for different models. There’s no reason to have two of the same features be so wildly different. It’s just inefficient. Why Garmin why?
@@mlegrand It must be painful to be a software engineer at Garmin. Their stubbornness to add or improve features as well. You could take these devices back 10 years in a time machine and only the hardware would impress anyway.
Been using a Fenix 6 Sapphire since 2020 and will probably upgrade to the Forerunner 965. I would consider the Epix Gen 2, but that price is just too steep. I had a stint with the Apple Watch Ultra, and while I enjoyed the experience it just wasn’t really what I liked about a fitness watch. The AWU is basically just a smart phone on your wrist which is cool, but not necessary at all. Too much info imo. The Fenix has been great for me as a sportswatch and minimal smart watch. I can see texts/calls coming in and decide if they need to be answered right away or not. That’s basically all I need from a smartwatch.
Yeah I also had my stint with AWU before and after garmins lol moral of the story, I always come back to gamrin😊
I've been waiting for this comparison since I knew the fr965 2ill have an amoled display thanks so much
I am probably the only person in the comments to use this but what I love about my Fenix is i can connect it to the handheld device for my Garmin GPS Dog collars so I can see their location without having to get out my hand held while hunting or trail running. I'm not sure if the forerunner series has this feature though.
Thank you for the comparison. Great job!
I know I'm late to the game on this video, but figured I'd chime in. Been a Fenix user since the 3. Went to a 5x then to an epix 2. Love the Epix but also had a Venu 2 plus for a lightweight option for work days. I just sold the venu 2 plus and replaced it with the forerunner 965. I am absolutely loving the 965. I don't feel like I'm giving up much from the epix as a daily wear, it's lighter and slimmer, and the UI looks great. I still have my Epix but the 965 is getting a ton more use. After wearing 51mm Fenix watches and even the epix gen 2, the forerunner feels like a feather.
I can't believe Garmin still has a Forerunner team and a Fenix/Epix team - it's so stupid. They should have one code base with all features and just turn off those not relevant for the individual watches. Then all you have to worry about is cases and bands. Any new feature propagates across all relevant watches when released.
This is so true
They should have one line each edition with 2-3 models one of them an amoled and it would be way better
They will keep doing this as long as we keep updating our purchase to whatever they release.. I am already feeling Epix 2 might just see the end of updates
Yeah I am dropping the fenix line when my current watch dies and switching to Forerunner series
But I also don’t want a 700-800$ baseline priced watch, 600$ is already too much lol.
Exactly what I said! And they should stop making so many different watches, it's confusing for consumers and expensive for them to develop and produce. It makes no sense
You made an incredible job, I'm sure it takes a lot of time to do a video like this. Compliments
I have the 965 and Fenix 7x sapphire solar. I use the epix as a Daily, and the fenix when I go out to the field since I’m military
So you're using actually 3 watches?😁
I saved the position of an elderberry tree once so I could come back and get the berries when ripe. I then formatted my watch and lost the saved position. Recently found out you can save all this stuff and the settings as well.
I missed this comparison, even a year after its filming. It is though still as relevant and hilarious as ever.
Indeed, while some items have been sorted/merged, many are still quite present.
Great video, I was just about to get a 955 but then saw the 965 was coming. Then I saw the Epix 2 (I'm not very up to date) and was wondering what the differences were. So thanks for going through this. I'm definitely getting the Forunner as I prefer that slighter form factor, I'm just not 100% sure if I want the Amoled as I actually quite like the older transflective (?) screens and I'm not convinced it's worth the extra $. The added resolution of the Amoled is nice though. I'm not really a runner, my knees can't take it but I cycle (mostly MTB) and do some hiking so having the maps as a backup is my thought. I also need something to help me train back to reasonable fitness and updating from a 735xt to all these new training tips/prompts will hopefully help.
Amoled is better for maps or satellite images. It support more colors compared to mip display which I think was 64 colors only. Also watchfaces looks great on Amoled. I have older epix and it was first Grmin watch with touchscreen. I only use it on hiking trips. For daily life I prefer my GW4 with Amoled and I will never go back to transflective display. Watch is something you dont look always like bike gps for example. So Amoled for watch is big deal for me.
There's also the 955 which doesn't have amoled
@DCrainmaker Thanks for excellent video. One of the major differences on those is the rounded edge on screen glass. I think they went wrong way with that. If you have a bezel, there should be straight glass. Rounded glass also practically prevents using any protector on that screen. That rounded glass seems to be also on a higher level than bezel so it is more prone to damage.
Just a shoutout for the great comparison. I watched this several times lasyear trying to decide which one to get and ultimately went with the Epix simply because it went on sale when I felt like making a purchase and got it for $300+ less than the FR965. I am so happy with it, but do still wonder what could have been haha.
In the opening shots, you can already see scratches on the case of the 965. So ruggedness is undoubtedly a differentiator between the two devices! I have always used Fenix devices because I wear my watch 24/7 and they need to be able to take a beating.
I may be in the minority, but I keep coming back to the Fenix. I can see the screen fine in darker environments with wrist gesture backlight. The ruggedness and battery life.
I do have a very basic Garmin watch, with a plastic back, and it gives me a rash when wearing too long. Never experienced this with any other plastic watch. For this reason alone I would prefer an epix over the new forerunner, besides better water resistance etc
I am wearing an Epix, and I have no regrets about buying it. However, I have watched numerous TH-cam videos about the 965 as well, and I also love it.
Great show and explanations which I really needed to pick the watch for me - liked and subbed
Thanks...great review. Now I just have to determin if I want to upgrade from Epix2 to the 965....
Oh phew - thought it was going to be a long list haha. Dude - awesome deep dive! Freaking amazing
Great comparison . Love the suggested workouts moment :)
100% agree that the new Forerunner is the better choice. Lighter , thinner, bigger screen and obviously more updated plus a better value. If you’re looking for something more rugged looking made with nicer materials, perhaps get the Epix or go all out and get the Marq. But like you said before a sports watch is not something that you will buy and hand down in your will like a Rolex or Cartier.
And now, a few months later the 965 is already outdated with its last gen sensor. Oh, Garmin.
Love Garmin watches, now using my Fenix 6 pro and looking actively for any reason to change to 965. However, current situation with their lineup resembles situation with Nokia phones that we had back in the day - multiple models, working great, but not so sexy as recent apple products:/
As someone who purchased the Epix 2 just over a month ago, I'm pretty bummed out by the release of the 965. My previous watch was a forerunner and my biggest concern about the Epix was the extra weight. Having a new forerunner come out so soon after my purchase that is pretty much at feature parity with the Epix 2, but with a larger screen and lighter body at a cheaper price, that gives me some regrets gotta be honest.
I purchased epix 2 just after fr 965 preorder released, don't like the design and materials, imo epix 2 gonna stay pretty more couple years
I am of the mindset that the expensive watches should have all the features of the cheaper ones as long as the hardware supports it and there should be consistency between the UI of the devices. Garmin frustrates me sometimes
Think of anything that you have that's software related. You always have tiers. It's exactly the same. Eventually 1000 bhp motors will just be cheap enough to use and because of the extra power you will have them throttled and unlocked via subx.
Hardware wise. Even CPUs have binning. It's unfortunate but we aren't going backwards anytime soon. So this is just something we have to accept. Unless we learn to break it lol😅
Any chance of doing a comparison between 965 & fenix 7x? Can’t decide between them
Weather widget is different between these two too. No idea why. FR series has the air quality and shows the weather station name.
Thanks Ray , and Yes high time Gamin software teams were more streamlined! What a waste of resources and also results in less than ideal user experiences and bugs! There seems to be less glare on the Epix I must say. I tried the 265 and the screen in activities was quite irritating as the gesture is not sensitive enough and the AOD is to dim so one has to double take to see data, I am a 955 user currently.
Great video as always, you rock!
Well done for this!
I wonder if 965 golf works. The 955's shot tracking has been broken since after one of the first updates. Worked perfectly on the 945 and even the 935...
The unanswered question for me is WHY is the GPS only run time so much better on the Epix? It suggests either (a) significant battery optimisations or better hardware on the 965 making the best of a smaller battery or (b) doing something differently on some other function which eats battery on the 965 in this mode. The answer may be interesting. Are we going to see much longer run times on the next Epix / Fenix version than the current ones?
Very important question !!! Hoping for answers as well
Yeahhh this video answers my question! Thanks Ray!
I think the subtle UI differences are under valued. I have the EPIX and it is simply a FENIX with an OLED display. It’s a FENIX in every way from the menu’s graphics, watch faces, colors, etc. Nothing about the Epix takes advantage of the OLED display. Yes, the colors and brightness look better than the Fenix, but its the same color options as the Fenix. Notice on the 965, the colors are deeper and richer with shading. the 965 is now changing the UI to take advantage of the advanced display. The menus and watch faces are more pleasing to the eye. The EPIX should really be sold as a FENIX w/OLED, and not as a new watch category. Why have a screen with a million color options but only display the same 10 you get with Fenix?? The only watch faces available for the EPIX are the same fenix watch face options. You don’t get any VENU style watch faces for the EPIX. There is nothing about the EPIX that is worth the extra $$. My opinion after owning since launch.
Thanks Ray for the great video, 965 is now on sale in China, but it costs ￥4980（about $710）, I 'm using Suunto 5 for running and hike, have a Fenix 3 HR before. Ever wanted to choose between EPIX and 965, now I decide to wait for the black friday's amazon, choose 965
Thanks for a wonderful and informative video !
I own the epix (gen) because I like the style more.
Replace the bands with leather ones and still looks good. Would have like the bigger screen on it tough. Not a really big fan of the new font, I hope Garmin keeps the one on the epix
I have a epix but i need a big font
@@carlosrauljimenez Let's hope they make it optional then, the UI on the 965 looks to cartoonish with the new font, I would prefer the bold text for the selections(Fenix) instead of the color gradient on the 965
Seems to me that for all intents and purposes, the only real difference between the Epix 2 and the 965 is the design. Now that could play an important factor in once choice between the two, though in the past individuals chose the more expensive watches because of the software differences? That gap as of now, seems to have been closed with the 965. I suspect that Garmin had to stop any potential bleeding from the defections to the Apple Ultra. The 965 gives individuals 99.9% of the Epix 2 .A better and larger Watch display (pixel density), and What seems to be better color saturation, based on the TH-cam reviews. You ultimately have to enjoy the Watch you are wearing, especially if you wear it 24/7. I suspect that most garmin wearers choose garmin watches because of its functions and not so much the look, if so everyone would have a different watch other than a Garmin. I would say this was a great decision by Garmin, and a no-brainer for any individual who wants an Epix 2, with a slightly different design!
UPDATE: I tried the 965 and something was missing....The watch face from the Epix pro and the build, front and back and ruggedness feel. I sent the 965 back and purchased the Epix Pro. The 965 felt more like a running watch and not an outdoor enthusiast watch.
Garmin really needs to simplify and unity the OS across all watches. Something like a GarminOS with the same understanding as watchOS on Apple Watches. Make it unified across all watches with the same kind of menus and descriptions and just point out the differences. It seems they have different software teams for fenix, forerunner and so on... I can't imagine the unnecessary costs of that.
Yup, they are seperate teams. It's definitely time for some convergence. Seperate teams for specific features makes sense - but less so for the base OS.
I had the Venu but got fed up with charging it all the time. I had a Fenix 5X already so changed the Venu for an Instinct 2 Solar. I ended up selling the Fenix 5X as it was getting a bit old. I now miss the maps and all that good stuff. The 965 looks as though it might be a good option covering most of the good points of all of them. I have found that the solar charging on the Instinct makes very little if any difference so doubt I will miss that.
I'm coming from the venue sq (first watch) to the venu2s (for music). Now I'm looking at the 965, I realize I need the maps because I need routes and I travel.
Can you also compare the new Forerunners with the Venu series?
Only once I recover from going down this rabbit hole.
@@Dcrainmaker I would like this too (once you're ready)
Yes, I'd be interested so see more about the ECG feature on the plus and maybe learn about why it's not on the 265/965.
Can you explain more in detail about how to use the reference point feature. Being a hunter I can see this feature being handy.
So the most important thing that may be critical to the average user is the presence of a sapphire for some Epix models. But is it worth such an overpayment?
One thing I noticed, the Garmin 965 display appears to be more sharp as compared to Epix gen 2 ( it appears more blurry)
Kinda expected. The FR965 has higher pixels per inch than the Epix. i.e. FR965's screen isn't just bigger than the Epix, it also packs more pixels.
@@AshharHasan07 thanks for insight!
Could we know when the replacement for the Garmin 965 will be released?
Thanks, just the comparison I wanted
fantastic video!
much appreciate it!
Fantastic video! Thank you so much!!!
great reviews. ive watched so many from u. so helpful
I’d like a more in depth on maps/usability while hiking. Downloading trails etc. If it works like the Epix 2 then this is a much better buy imo.
There's zero differences in maps/navigation except as noted. I spent many many hours in the maps especially, and had initially expected it to be a much wider difference, but in reality, Garmin has quietly added so many features to the FR955 over this past fall/winter, that by time the FR965 came out, there was a surprising level of parity.
@@Dcrainmaker Amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply!
Just when I thought I had my mind made up! I’ve got a 945 and was going to upgrade to a 955 Solar…but the 965 is the same price! Go with the solar or skip the Gen and get the newer 965? 🤔
Do you think we will see a Forerunner 965s? I'd prefer the Forerunner but the 47mm size is a downside for those of us who prefer a smaller watch
Thanks for this video.
honesty, that is what I want see it 🤙
Folks with Epix2 or Fenix7 experience; can you increase the font on UI? Did not see that upon basic Googling so figured I ought to ask. Guessing it may be why the Data Fields on the 965 might be limited to 6 total vs 8 on the Epix perhaps? Thanks if anyone can confirm.
It looks like you can pick up an epix gen 2 sapphire cheaper than a 965 now with Black Friday offers. Currently coming from an original Venu. What would everyone recommend?
Probably the Gen2 Epix for the price (down to $449, or Sapphire at $499). Check out the full deals page here: www.dcrainmaker.com/deals
sapphire display is the most important change for me. Ive scratched my apple watch too many times, and i dont like screen protectors.
Just got my 965!! Super like it!! the screen is brilliant and it doesn't burn out the battery as quick as I thought. I barely remember when it was the last time charged my watch. Also, the charging was quick also I remember it was 30% left before I went for a shower and after 25 mins it is 89 % already. Light and soft band. don't need to worry to kill my wife accidentally when I wear my fenix 7 to sleep =)
Awesome, enjoy!
Great! Do you use the always on display or not? How about the battery life with always-on display??
@@UmbertoUguccioni My condition will be a bit different cuz normally I run 3 days a week and also use as heart rate sensor for my edge. But according to my friend's words, stay always on can stay for more than a week easily.
Hi DC Rainmaker, what if i am getting both the watches in same price, which one should I go for ?
In this video you said the 965 would be the one you prefer. How would that stack now with the pro version but the 42mm. The smaller pro would not be as bulky and retain all the new features added to the pro that are not on the 965. Or would you still prefer the 965. Maybe another video. The hill-endurance score most likely I’m guessing stay on these pros.
Can you use 22mm quick release bands with the 965.
I believe so
Was thinking of upgrading from an Epix for the bigger display in a smaller body but the 6 data fields limit is an outright deal breaker. FR965 has the same 1.4” display size as the Fenix 7x (which can also do 8) AND has a much higher pixel density, yet it is limited to 6 fields?? 🤦♂️
@DCrainmaker Great work ! Any insight if Garmin plans on supporting sapphire glass on their next Forerunner watch ? Just like many here, this is the last missing bit to go 965 ;-)
Need to figure out how to add the Reference Point to the menu - don't have it on my Fenix 7
Great run through - so is there no way to view tide time on the 965?
Brilliant comparison!
Great video !!, thank you so much.
Great info Ray as always! 🤟🤟
Just two comments: 1: the 6 vs 8 data fields is clearly an aesthetic decision, the fonts and spacing on the 965 is just bigger. Will that be changed? TBD. It should as some runners are data junkies but it would require the UI to break a rule, so, we'll see. 2: interesting that the 965 smaller form factor gives same battery life as epix w smaller screen. Is the epix battery a tiny bit bigger? Was power consumption reduced on the 965 via better technology? Regardless Ray, you nailed everything once again and the community (including Garmin!) continues to owe you thanks for what you do.
Thanks. Yeah, realistically we're looking at 14+ months newer tech here - even more given how much stockpiling Garmin actaully did on Epix prior to launch. So it appears the daily power consumption is lower (whereas the GNSS side seems roughly the same).
Thanks Ray.
are there build / service differences? is the 965 glued like an apple watch?
great video thx👍🏾
Do you think the jet lag feature will eventually come to the forerunner?
THANK YOU. Excellent comparison! I've been using the FR945 for a year+ but then I tried the Coros Apex Pro 2 a month ago. Both are excellent watches. Kuddos to Coros' APP. If the 965 hadn't been released before my 30 day return date with Coros, I would have kept the Coros. I'm 52 years young and the 1.4" amoled display sold me. I NEED TO SEE IT. Coros AP2 is a GREAT watch but I'm still familiar with my 945 so my decision was a no-brainer. I'm looking forward to your deep dive wth the FR965. Ordered the 965 a week ago (delivers in 5-8 weeks as of now). On paper, it's everything I could want/need in a watch and then some, IMO. Thanks again!
These videos are just great. Thank you.
One question. Do you know or have you asked from Garmin why doesn't their Sport watches include very common sports like basketball, soccer, etc?
They do have now (1 year later) but please tel me how do you intend to play basketball with your watch on the wrist? Not only you cant throw the ball normaly its even dangerous to scratch someone with it. Thus forbitten in games. I see no point having all this sports.
@@meho9668yes, it's often forbidden to wear a watch when playing basketball, or other team sports. But not always. And you can record the activity with just your chest strap on, but start it from the watch, you then leave to the bench (or bag).
And yes, now it's available, but still waiting for these type of activities to appear in Strava 😆
Would be nice 965 vs epix pro!
Great job! Thank you
omg it is so difficult to figure out what I need in Garmins line up... Its so easy to "upgrade" up the models... maybe thats on purpose??? I started at the FR255 and before you know it I am cross comparing a Epix, 7Pro, and AW ultra... I am still leaning twards the simple FR255 only because of the vibrant band color options.
It is quite interesting to think about what updates will come jn the next cycle for Fenix 7/ Epix line up. Greed has no bounds 😅
Very helpful, thanks
Hi!
For the 965, is it possible (via an app or otherwise) to display the hours/minutes in the "traditional" way, i.e. with hands? (i.e. like on the Epix-gen-2 or any "classical" watch)??
Thanks in advance!
I want a 965 screen size, just that touch bigger, but the Epix/Fenix durability!
Amazing, Thank you so much. 965 it is.
Thank you for this
Great review. What an effort! 👏🏼
I have a question regarding disabling touch during activities. Can you still use touch when looking at the map?
As far as I know, you can activate the touch screen during an activity via a hotkey.
Will Armin putt the jet lag function on the forerunner series?
The 965 is the better value and has the updated features.
Great video as always, very helpful. Reckon the 965 is for me.....will just keep the Fenix 6 sapphire for my other wrist 😂
I got the enduro 2 but it might be defective because after it reaches 15 days left, battery drops by 5 days when doing nothing lol.
Ouch, battery is it's key feature.