Be a Filmmaker Who Edits.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Why do so many high-profile directors edit their own films? Book your free video demo from ClearView Flex: thisguyedits.com/clearviewflex
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"The Science of Editing" series is by @ThisGuyEdits and Dr. Karen Pearlman, based on her book "Cutting Rhythms - Intuitive Film Editing": amzn.to/2cqkz5J
Watch all episodes of "The Science of Editing": • The Science of Editing
#ScienceOfEditing #FilmEditingTheory #DirectingVsEditing
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Dr. Karen Pearlman is a lecturer in screen production at Macquarie University and the author of 'Cutting Rhythms, Intuitive Film Editing' (Focal Press/Taylor & Francis, 2015). Her film 'Woman with an Editing Bench' won the national ATOM award for Best Short Fiction and the Australian Screen Editors Guild award for Best Editing in a short film.
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The box to write our answers was not user friendly. I will paste my message here incase it didn’t reach you via that little box.
Thanks for the opportunity to ponder this question. To Dr. Karen Pearlman, for your books third addition release I would love a section on “Communicating with a Director”. The points I’d personally like to understand in detail range from:
How to stand your ground with a creative decision. AND How to effectively communicate with different directors.
Also, “The Language of Colour Grading”. Something along the lines of: How colours can shortcut environments, emotions etc. Colour tone can just as easily inform an audience the same way a subtle score can. (Reference to discuss: Extraction a 2020 action film starring Chris Hemsworth)
Final point I swear. Aspect Ratio. It needs to be discussed more. Xavier Dolan plays around with a kind of flow-framing technique in most of his films. It can be done more often I believe IF done correctly. The last thing we want to do is tamper with audience emersion.
(I omitted the end - very direct message to Doctor Pearlman)
Hope to hear from you soon.
J.D.Manion
Editing entirely depends on the angle of the shot and the time and atmosphere and lighting of the shots…so that how efficiently an editor puts them into a meaningful sequence….sometimes a good movie seems badly edited or sometimes bad movies seems nicely edited….where does all these questions end… if the shots are not done at their best, then an editor doesn’t have much choice to edit…I think Dr Karens should discuss more between the thin red line of how much and how long and how far (how much you can capture the drama, how long you can keep the audience bonded and how far you are going to take everyone to achieve the goal)
One thing to remember about the director walking away with all the credit. Is that he/she also gets all the blame. When I watch a Michael Bay Transformers film. Especially one of the later ones. When I see the editing that is so disjointed and incomprehensible that it becomes a piece of avant garde art... I do not blame the editors. Michael Bay has enough clout to say that he actually wanted it that way. He signed off on it.
That's the case with most leadership positions. One of the main parts of the job that you are responsible and that goes both ways.
where I work there’s a saying: Editors are paid to be at fault.
Any editor worth his salt wouldn't cut a movie like that. Any good choices are probably vetoed by Michael bay.
Not gonna lie. that Mary Ann Bernard plot twist at the start really blew my mind. And also put a big smile on my face!
Wait till you hear about Soderbergh's other frequent collaborator, cinematographer Peter Andrews
You can also check out Cohen brothers with Roderick Jaynes
Same here bro. I was like yo, he's on some slick shit with that move. Incredible.
I’m an independent filmmaker, I write, shoot and edit my films plus corrections and help from friends. I know how editing feels especially when I know the footages I’ve shot aren’t all well. Editors deserve more credit than they have now.
I think almost every director started as one man band trying to do most of the roles themselves. When editing the footage you really learn what shots you captured work together in the edit. Often times I realized I should ve broken down the Scene into more distinct angles to get a rhythm in the Scene and to emphazise things I wanted the audience to recognize / feel. So yes, directors who edit become better directors.
There are a lot of directors out there who don't know everything about movie making, but Tarantino certainly isn't one of them. He writes the script and will make sure it's going to be as he wants it to be. If he leaves editing to someone else, that doesn't make the editor any more important. Especially in the case of Tarantino. He's a professional, so he will listen what the editor has to say, but you can't state that a director like him has no view over the material.
Bad directors will not be noticed easily as a bad director if everyone else does their job.
But the best movie makers are still those who have a clear vision for the entire movie.
Basically what I saying is that Tarantino could make his movie with beginner film students, but there's is no way that the best editors out there could do the same. If they were that good, they should be director themselves.
If anything, script writers don't get the credits they deserve.
Amen
Answer: How to create the emotional connection via edit when the footage was not shot with that in mind.
How long you hold a shot, the score, the colour tone, sound design, dialogue dubbing.
@@jmando8 sure, but depends how long the shot is in the rushes.
When you say edit i feel it talks about working over something already existing, montage feels like a new thing emerges
The amount of knowledge you guys put in a 17min video just goes to show how widely you have studied this industry. Amazing
I started out my career as an editor, and slowly after picking up the courage to study in film school and years working in the industry, I've collaborated with many as a director. So this video/edition really hits me. Also, Andrea Arnold's American Honey (2016) for me was my first time seeing a credit roll where they listed "A Film Made By..." followed by her whole team. She was my inspiration for my dissertation on film collaboration! So thank you for this video! Beautiful!
Thank you for sharing!
I wanna debut directing a short, so I never had experience "directing" an editor. I like the Kuleshov Effect and cutting on the actor's look. Thus, I intend to shoot already thinkin of the editing. Should I brief the editor, or he/she will understand when seeing the footage?
Not surprised that Chloé Zhao edits her own films. I'm a 2nd year at the film program she went to (NYU Graduate Film), and this is how they teach us. At least in the first 2 years we're required to edit the same films we write/direct, and as a result I direct with the assumption that I'm going to edit it. On one hand I do like that level of creative control-but it can definitely lead to tunnel vision, too, and perhaps an overprotectiveness of the project. I think most students eventually choose to specialize (major respect to Chloé for doing that combination on a feature), but if nothing else being in the editor's shoes gives perspective for a director on how to best work with the editor (or vice versa).
I found Nomadland to be a bore. Chloe Zhou has a great eye and some unique moments but not a fan of her storytelling.
Thoroughly enjoyed this video. As I am an aspiring film director I am trying to learn everything from editing to cinematography just so I can have a good idea of how better to direct people. However, this video brings a great point of what directors really must do in order to be good directors. Though it may be helpful if a director knows what they're talking about in a particular field which ultimately allows them to preserve their creative idea, I really enjoyed the idea that directors need to learn to step back and give directions to allow people to perform their craft. I was also quite surprised to see my university lecturer guest starring in this video. Amazing video, glad I'm subscribed !
GREAT video ! Congrats to Sven (et al - Karen & Morgane)!
Yeah but.... In certain most cases, depending on the studio, The editor can spend hours, days, weeks, months on an edit... At the end of the day the director's "DIRECTION" is LAW. If the director says it's not working, than it's not working end of story. The director is ultimately hired to develop his or her vision using the tools and professionals employed. Not all Directors get to choose the contractors used in making the film... But, the ones that have been used as the examples in this particular video most definitely do. So... if an Editor is chosen and hired by a Director wouldn't that ultimately be yet another decision put in play by the Director? If I told three people to gather all the ingredients for a cake and than had another person mix those ingredients together and then had another person turn on the oven and place the cake on the rack; what makes the person who cuts the cake into wedges or squares more of a "Creator/Author.../""CONDUCTOR"", what ever label makes you less self conscious, than those who were involved earlier on? Why would somebody hired by the Director and then told what to do be equal to the Director? Yes they are two different skills, but so are writing and reading. Bottom line, if a Director can edit than let it be. If an editor can direct than let it be.
Thought the same but the director doesnt sits there all the time and says: cut cut no this not cut and the editor just executes. Thats what you mean with the cake. The editors decide themselves what to put in the cake and then the director says if he finds it delicious. Depending ofc.
Answer: how to manipulate human thoughts and emotions through editing. Editors base most decisions on psychology. Would love to learn about why and how certain psychological techniques are used in editing to create a response in the human mind :)
Kuleshov effect which paved way for editing at first place is based on very rooted psycology imo.
@@jyotirmoyghosh1720 Yeahh for sure!
i feel like good editing techniques are built to mimic natural eye movement. each blink = a cut. when u look from one point to another, the blind spot in between = a cut. hence, a good editor knows where the audience wants to look in each situation
blinking
Much depends on the shots you’re given
Such great insight into editing and filmmaking - I adore the orchestra and conductor analogy. Lots of love from Australia
I love your collaborations with Karen, and this may be the best one yet. A truly enlightening and thought-provoking piece.
Love this one, cant wait for Cutting Rhythm 3rd edition. Thanks Sven for always celebrated the film editing storytelling.
It’s been a long time since your last video! Welcome back
Another informative and entertaining work, Sven. I enjoy exploring all this stuff. And you do it well. Thanks. Great job, Morgane.
after so long I was waiting for a new episode so desperately
... It's been, what, 2 years since I last check you out. Alaways good to see your lessons!
I think you should write about the relationship between editors and audio designers and mixers or/and VFX designers
Have to admit that this is one of best edited videos I've seen in my entire life .. Only one thing I could ask if I could is for Sven to send Karen's audio without any background score.. Every word talked is a gem
This was great! Very descriptive of the process.
My mentor.. I’m so thankful
Editors deserve a lot of credit, they are super integral to the filmmaking process. But when a film flops at the BO or fails, no one says, "man that editor really fucked up." It's the director who may or may not work again. So yes, the director gets nearly all the credit because they're gonna take all the blame if it fails.
I loved this video, as I tend to do with the rest of this channel, but I found the title a bit misleading.
I find myself discussing more and more with friends about how Sally Menke (Tarantino´s former editor who passed after the making of Inglorious Basterds) was the perfect balance for QT´s really long dialogue and action scenes. Tarantino is probably my favorite director, but since Menke died his later films started to feel increasingly long and slighty tedious to watch at times, even though all the good things I love about him are still there (Hateful Eight being the perfect example for this).
When I saw this video popping in my feed I was hoping to get your insight on this subject,. And would love it if you could maybe talk a bit about it in the future if you feel like it.
Thanks for all the great content!
You've collab'd with this great woman before so I just ordered her book via Amazon and I can't wait to to start reading it from tomorrow:)
Well edited this was. The Clearview seems like a WFH (work from home) solution for editors; very timely. Love the dissection of the art and how I always learn something. As a podcaster, I "do it all" and when in the edit, I think of things I have learned here; the power I have, the responsibility I have to my guests and to my listeners. Thank you Sven and to et al.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This was a very in-depth and thought provoking episode. I enjoyed it alot.
While watching this video I was thinking about Hitchcock and Kubrick. I had read that sometimes Hitchcock didn't film a lot of coverage because he knew where the cut was going to happen in his head. Kubrick wasn't shy about doing multiple takes (maybe trying to exert that control while directing). Each was a master storyteller. I guess there are different paths to the best film possible.
FYI shooting a lot of coverage is about filming the same thing from several directions so you get options about specific angles in the editing room. It's not about getting a lot of takes.
Some directors shoot for the editor while some others shoot the film as they imagined it.
So here’s my question for Karen’s book : I heard from an editor than part of the job in the editing room meant taking care of the director - the editor often acting as some kind of shrink. I’d love to know more about that aspect of the relationship between the editor and the director (sorry, I didn’t write it as a question !).
Wow, the ending bit about directing being more about instigating was really well said. Very helpful video!
thanks for amazing content. i very like watch behind the process film editor. thanks this guys edit!
Really love the idea of the credits roll having every single person's name at once!
Thank you 🐸
@@udof you're welcome?...and you are? lol
Outstanding content, as usual.
Answer: I'd love to see a lot of psychology related stuff. How and why the public mind works when watching a film and which specific proven tools have the editors to estimulate certain emotions or responses in the public.
Love thisss. Perfectly articulated. (I’m currently torn between studying film and studying psychology because I love film psychology so much) 😂
blinking
Walter Murch is the answer. He talks more about the philosophy behind film making than the technical aspect.
@@yogeshbhatt3654 Thank you! Just seen they have one of his books in my library =)
@@sergiolopezlosada To start with I would recommend "In the blink of an eye".
This is a great video, I believe editing will make you a better director, specially when you have to make sure the film have a good rhythm.
Your channel is amazing. Please make more videos 😃
Answer: I would love to see some discussion about directors who at least have some knowledge of editing and vice versa, and how that may enhance the working relationship and storytelling. Great video!
Really nice video, thanks a lot!
I think learning when to let go of a project/move on is an important thing that a book on editing should cover. I find myself consumed with editing sometimes, and it makes it very difficult to know when something is finished.
The film is assembled in the edit suite!
Well as the writer, editor, and director of all my films I find this very interesting... lol. Nice video!
This video was well worth the wait the more I watch this channel the more I learn and become infatuated with editing and the process. Answer- I would like to see the ways that an editor can begin their career from the very beginning ! How do I find the right mentor? How do you gain trust from directors in the early stages? How do you get an editor to hire you as an assistant editor? at the moment I have only edited music videos so far and I want to make the switch because music videos can be very repetitive & are becoming so similar because they want to cover everything in effects. I fell in love with editing because of the creative process and editing short films/films/tv is where I want to take my career, and with everything being so remote nowadays its becoming very difficult. I spend my time trying to come up with a plan to break into an industry of which I have no prior experience in . Basically I learn and learn and learn but cant figure out how to exicute on a level of which I can / will be noticed.
Always considered myself a writer. In my head is something that started out apocalyptic and primal. I tried to understand this vision, define it, tell someone about this place, this mood. I didn't know what the story was. How could I make a story when I felt in the middle of it. Thirty years later it feels more a prophetic vision. I keep changing my medium because no one I know reads a book. I learned a lot over the years and really like learning about the focal points and rythms I saw in your first two videos I watched.
Probably your most interesting vid so far. Keep up the awesome work.
Wow, thanks!
agreed. one of my favs of this channel
I love a video that somehow talking about me as love of editing
That slate with everyone is really cool.
Thank you 🐸
I'm here to learn💯
Great stuff. Good job
It’s so interesting I study psychology and do cinematography and I love how it goes together. I have to edit myself bc I cant really explain my feeling of why something works for me or not
I don’t disagree with anything stated here.
I have been both director and editor in the indie scene, for both my own and other projects. The one thing I think is important to note is being the face of a project is a double edged sword. Yes, the director accepts the recognition for a project’s success, but accepts all the accountability for a project’s shortcomings. Like a Head coach of a sports team. A head coach is nothing with their assistant coaches and administration. But in a losing season, hardly anyone is pointing at the supporting roles. Because being the face comes with a lion’s share of the risk, I am ok with the director being considered the author. However, I would to see more recognition go to editors.
I edit my own work, and I do think it makes me a better director. I absolutely am still directing in the editing bay, playing with rhythms and even altering what I originally had in mind. It makes for a more organized and efficient shooting schedule, which the actors express appreciation for, as it contributes to an atmosphere that they feel respected by, and thus helps elicit better performances. It also helps that I have an acting background. I do have friends/colleagues that I run certain things by as I work through the cuts, to find out if it's working, which helps a lot. If I'm unsure about a take, I'll edit with both and we'll take a look. Of course, I'm still doing shorts with smaller casts. As the scope of my work gets larger, it may behoove me to pass it to someone else, with the experience I have being extremely valuable.
So true, the public has no idea the contribution and affect the editor has on a film
Directors that understand their limitations, and are comfortable with allowing others with the expertise to do the thing they know how to do, and taking suggestions about how to tell the story, are better directors. Gaffers, Cinematographers, Editors, Grips, and Actors and the rest of the crew depend on the Director to guide the story, and are there to support that direction with their knowledge and skill.
they shouldn't be "directing" then... as they're just taking credit for other people's work. If all you're doing is "allowing" others to do jobs... then this person should only be credited with "Set Manager" or if you're still working with actors have the title modified to "Director of Performance" and have no greater say over things than the director of photography. You have no business rejecting or approving (aka directing) the work of other's if you don't have an fundamental understanding of it or have learned/performed it yourself at one time.
It's been long. I was waiting for ur wisdom 😇
Really good discussion I hope to win one of these new books
Answer: The journey before becoming an editor, the tasks as An assistant, ...
Or the collaboration side of editing, working together with the director in the dark room.
16:04 that is actually amazing !!!
What I would like to see in a book on editing is what option are there if you don't have a sufficient amount of b-roll shots to cover dialog or to convey the idea, or you can't do re-shoots. Also how does one determine what to cut when your film is too long and everything you have in the film seems crutial.
this is really interesting compared to the medium of videogames and how there is a scene of developers that do [have to do] everything on their own to achieve their vision vs. the collaborational mindset that it usually takes to accomplish such a monumental task as a group effort.
As a Storyboard Artist, I have created thousands of animatics that help the director and editors. I think nuts and bolts of what works with timing and spacing of scenes. The psychology of science that work as well as audio of a scene. Comedy is one of the hardest genre to do, so if you can touch on that too. Thanks for making these videos, they are very helpful.
Really enjoyed this .
Awesome, thank you!
Question for Karen: how editing is changing with the rise of streaming platforms? with the pandemic and the increasing number of movies made for small screens and short attention spans, are editing decisions being affected?
So cool...awesome video...awesome words said...
Wonderful!
Answer : Do you try to keep a permanent organized objectivity and how? Or do you just sink into material, edit for days with your guts and... See what does come out of it with the director?
Great subject, thank you for this video!
Both actors and cinematographers, and other roles, make thousands of decisions to provide an intermediate result for director's judgement.
I think, it was just quite hard to edit and needed a lot of time - hence there were special people for that. And now it all goes to technicall enhancements which allow to make the same job with fewer people. Filmmakers of the new era will do everything by their own (except of acting, maybe. Or even actors will be replaced by 3d models).
Answer: When editing, what's the 3 most important aspects of the edit and how do they interact with each other? Is there times where one is more important than the others and if so, when do you know to highlight that?
Love this vid. Helped me gain more clarity on why it’s important to learn editing. Answer: vertical film editing. Is there any new editing approaches beginner editors shout pursue while experimenting with editing vertical films?
An editor really needs to understand psychology, emotion, and how to manipulate the footage to elicit the emotions that are desired. This ability is what makes a good editor.
Second, the editor also brings a different vision to the project that is unaffected by anything that occurred during production. We don't care if it was a hot day, took 20 takes or is the director's favorite scene ... it it isn't working, the editor's job is to cut it out or manipulate it to make it work.
Answer: Once I've seen a pretty great essay by Max Tohline on "Editing as Punctuation", and I really would love to see that discussion further elaborated. If cinema is it's own language, and footage is like a word, how editing can function the same way as commas, colons, questionmarks, parenthesis etc do with written language?
I would love to read that essay
Love Dr. Pearlman's work. I think often and deeply about what is happening when we put recorded images together. It's extremely unnatural and on a certain level I think the mind can barely deals with it. It's God like really...but...yeah...good stuff
Answer: Navigating collaboration. Receiving notes. When to dig your heels in and when to let things go. Balancing your own creative ego with the need to be employed.
th-cam.com/video/FCs8Qqy5fFE/w-d-xo.html
Answer: I would love to learn about techniques related to the ability to lead the collaborative process, especially since I consider myself a person who has difficulties in this aspect. Whether as a director, screenwriter, or editor, I believe this is a fundamental piece: to be able to create well this collective atmosphere in favor of the realization of the work.
th-cam.com/video/FCs8Qqy5fFE/w-d-xo.html
To answer: I wonder what are the ethical implications of editing? When we represent others ideas/image as editors we get to choose how things are said, the phrasing, ultimately the representation. As Karen said editing is about control, so how do we as editors be respectful of this power? How does the back and forth of the relationship with directors/producers effect this? Thanks for the great vid!
Answer: An exploration of the various techniques and how they're used in specific film genres.
Nice thought :)
Glad you think so!
I'm editor with 35 years experience. Editing is about 25% of the contribution but the director is involved in all aspects. The writer is the gunsmith, the director is the hunter and the the editor is the chef. Without the gun and the kill there is no rabbit stew. So Elmer Fudd is the autuer.
Auteur theory may have come out of Cahiers du Cinéma, but it has been repeated and promoted by film marketing departments ever since because audiences _want_ there to be a single author. It makes films easier to understand as a medium.
Great Video, thank you.
the clear view ad is so meta
As a director who has also edited my own film, I can see the pros and cons. The pro is editing is the natural creative conclusion of the directing. The con is that I want to include everything I shot in the edit, because I remember the blood, sweat and tears it took to capture each and every shot. As an editor, I have to brutally cut something out if it doesn't work, painful as that may be.
Answer: I would love to see some examples on how a cut got improved by manipulating the timing or shot etc. It's most often in the
I think you have missed on element of the filmmaking process. Speilberg knows what works and doesn't because he has lots of experience telling the story and then seeing the reaction from buyers and the audience. As a creator, you need to trust your instincts and then see how your choices work BEFORE you start working with an editor.
This is pretty situational but is it better to have the editor on set or keep them in post production?
Answer: Discussing the psychological impact of any cut. I feel like we're so commonly told in filmmaking how to light a scene for a certain effect or move a camera to sway the audience, although seldom do we have the opportunity to dive into what makes an edit impactful. The way I personally think of editing is a puzzle; at the start you're left with a bunch of scattered pieces and at the end you've assembled them to create something beautiful. Unlike real puzzles, the pieces are ever changing and I believe that is the mystery for so many when it comes to an edit. For a book about the rythym of an edit I feel like it should explore this mystery and why certain edits feel a certain way. Barring sound and music even. Just looking at the pieces themselves and the psychological impact their ordering has.
Great video. I saw a speed editor, Did you switched to Davinci Resolve?
The answer is yes ☺️
What are your thoughts on production process now such as the mandaloran using technology to stream line a production, while this helps a developed idea come to life, what impact do you think it will have and developing ideas?
Answer: How much of editing it’s a skill that can be learned and how much of it, it’s a feeling that can be evoked as a result of cutting audio-visual material?
In other worlds:
Which it’s the first, the cut or the feeling how to cut gives you direction?
Answer: is editing videos for the web (youtube, instagram etc) a new way of cutting? Is it influencing the way people perceive videos and maybe movies? There's something a traditional editor can learn from that?
About the editing book I think it should be divided in to part one for creativity like the editing language in general and the other part About technicals like when to cut from wide to close thing like this
Answer: Ways to decide when to cut for reactions and when to stay on whoever is talking etc. in the scene.
It boils down to feeling. When a cutaway disrupts the feeling, don't cut away. When a cutaway further involves the viewer by showing a reaction at an appropriate time, cut away.
Pacing. I’d like to learn on pacing
A Question for Karen's book, i think it will help to contribute to conceptually understand editing:
If the fundamental connection of cinema and editing/montage is the function of putting images after another, how does editing contribute on sequences or even a whole film that is one take?
Great content and inspiration.. thank you, Question: Im working on a short, I have some sequences done, is a good idea to do a concept Teaser for myself ?
To analyze, rhythm, color, Continuity etc.... Do you have in your channel anything related to Trailers ? thanks for any tips, hope many will benefit from this question.