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Wicked brings me back memories of when I was younger. It's not a mindblowing musical, but it's still a fun musical for teenagers. As I love Jonathan Bailey, I really wish they could've casted a Black actor. I am glad that they cast a disabled actress for Nessarose, though. BTW: I love your pink makeup and the pink shirt and the details in your black shirt.
I read the book first. All of Gregory Maguire’s books have some layer of political or philosophical message conveyed through sometimes unexpected points of view. His work is great. While I like the songs in Wicked the musical, all the lore differences in the story make me unable to watch it knowing there was a more interesting story that the musical writer shredded apart to write the musical from.
This is like when I found out that Prince Charmant (from Ella Enchanted) has "swarthy" or brown skin... Knowing that they whitewashed him in the movie kinda ruined it for me...
@@kohlinoor "swarthy" predates race pseudo-science. It was used by the English, and basically it meant just about everyone that wasn't northern European. Assuming Charmant is French he would be swarthy by default, but Hugh Dancy doesn't look particularly French.
I don't know if I could even compare them, radically different. I would love love love to see a book faithful adaptation of these someday, though. I read it first, I came to Wicked for that darkness, getting songs was a bonus years later.
Some great observations! As far as adaptations go, I think it's noteworthy that the novel is a much closer retelling of Baum' Wizard of Oz (see for example the part where all of Elphaba's animal friends are getting slaughtered by Dorothy's pals). The biggest departure is probably that Maguire uses Elphaba's looks from the 1939 film. On the other hand, the Broadway version uses the film version as the main source of its retelling (see Glinda's bubble, for instance) due to its instant visual recognizability and popularity. Since the 1939 film is already a pretty watered down version of Baum's book, I think it's forgivable that the Broadway show sticks to the more upbeat, family-friendly side of the spectrum. For a mass commercialized product, it still makes some pretty strong points about how preconceived notions work, how power and propaganda works, how fierce individualism alone cannot enact systemic change etc... and while the Broadway show doesn't end in utter tragedy like Maguire's story, it's also not exactly a super happy ending: Elphaba's mission has failed and now lies in the hand of a less than competent Glinda, Elphie and Fiyero have to flee and will remain villified forever, the Ozians haven't learned a thing, and Glinda thinks all her friends are dead. So it still has a lot of dark complexity going for it, I'd say.
Okay, so apparently I now need a book adaptation of Wicked, as an entirely separate entity from the musical. Whose social media do I spam to get this to happen?! (Haven't even read this book but I'm fired up, man! 😤)
I wasn't a huge fan of the books myself. Read them when I was younger and honestly there's some disturbing things,some sexual,that just...never left my mind and kinda creeped me out. No hate to those that liked it,there were some interesting parts and plots but...Some scenes I was questioning if Gregory was just putting his weird sexual fantasies in it. Some stuff was just... unnecessary.
It may be because I read the book as a tiny child, but i genuinely have a bit of a soft spot for book!Glinda. She is an absolute idiot and a horrific coward, but as far as i remember she was /absolutely/ not happy with her comfortable upper-class life. She'd just made her bed of terrible choices and now she was lying in it.
@@LadyJeneviaYeah, I should probably dig it all up from wherever it disappeared. I remember being quite freaked out by a good chunk of the Shiz section, but it would likely be much easier as an adult rather than at eight 😆
I agree, in the beginning she is selfish but she is just trying to make it in the world. She comes from a poor family that was barely able to send her to university and she’s trying to rise up the social ladder. Later in the book, although we don’t see much of her, she seems like she just yearns for connection. When she runs into fiyero she just wants to talk to him and he wants to get away, and when she sees Elphaba she is hoping Elphaba will stay. She is unhappy in her high status marriage and just wants to have real friends at that point. I don’t see her as evil at all
Also about the shoes, Elphaba doesn’t really have much claim to them. Glinda became Nessarose’s caretaker after Elphaba disappeared, and she and Nessa bonded and became close friends throughout their time at shiz. Glinda is the one who enchants the shoes to give Nessa her independence. Honestly, I think it’s her right to do with the shoes what she wants after Nessa dies. She also sends them with Dorothy to protect her. I don’t think she is trying to spite Elphaba, she pretty clearly says she wants to get Dorothy out of harms way as soon as possible
I’ve been finding the discourse around the Wicked book lately so interesting. Wicked was hugely popular when I was in high school and my fellow theater-kid friends were obsessed with it. But any of them who decided to read the book said it was terrible, that the musical was so much better and not to read it, so I never did. Now, I’m seeing so much more praise for the book and people elevating the story above the musical. I might consider reading it now. But I do think they are just so vastly different, it’s difficult to compare.
I haven't seen any previews, but my understanding is that this film adaptation is including some portion of the source material that gets compressed / removed in the stage adaptation -- what aspects and how much remain to be seen. From what I've read, Stephen Schwartz also has two new musical pieces in this film duo, one of which centers on Bailey's Fiyero character (who only has one solo tune that serves as character development in the play). Not sure whether that tune will appear in the first or second Wicked film, but I am not going to complain about more Jonathan Bailey singing! Knew this book would be right up your alley.
It's definitely interesting to revisit art you've previously watched/read but don't have a detailed recollection of. If I can't recall specifics of the plot, I usually only remember what my emotional impression was (if any). 😆
@@LadyJenevia yeah exactly lol, I had a vauge memory of the story, but I'm only like a little less than 100 pages in and SO much has happened. I wonder if HBO would pick it up for a mini series at some point
When I started reading it I quickly realised I wouldn’t be able to do as a detailed of an overview of the plot as I originally thought I’d be doing. Even just the first section when Elphaba either hasn’t been born yet or is just a baby/toddler, there is so much detailed storytelling about everything that’s currently going on and has historically gone on. It’s A LOT. 😂
This is a fantastic comparison of the book to the musical. The musical was altered to be a lot more family friendly, and I have always found it strange that the musical has the same name as the book and took some of the books ideas while being such a dramatically different story. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the movie! I am very excited to see it as a huge Wicked musical fan myself.
Bless you for making this to praise the book so vehemently, it's sooo refreshing to see when the collective opinion amongst all the musical-only girlies throughout the years is that the book is "gross and off-putting". Like that's kind of the point but 💁 Prior to the extended media junket for the movie, I don't guess it had ever really occurred to me that those of us who read the book first (and typically prefer it) are such a minority. I read it way back when I was definitely too young to fully process a lot of the subject matter, but even I was bothered by how Sanitized the plot of the musical was when I had the opportunity to see it for myself. Like I'm 90% sure I'd fallen asleep during parts of it because my recollection is so hazy,, which is a shame since I did grow to really appreciate the musical as a completely separate beast later on 🧎 All that said, I'm definitely still eager to see the movie, if nothing else just to indulge in the spectacle of being able to see some form of Elphaba's story take place in a format that actually allows the plot to Breathe, and to pick out what ideas from the book John Chu decided to sprinkle in. It'll be a fun experience that I'll ultimately have to turn my brain off for, but there's a part of me that's hopeful that the success of these movies maaaay spark interest in a proper adaptation for The Wicked Years later on 👉👈
I've watched the stage musical twice, and I hated Glinda. She's such a bully, and I love Elphaba so much that Glinda was never redeemed for me. The sisterhood and friendship between them is beautiful and touching, but I still don't like Glinda. However, it's been a while since I've seen the show, so I'm wondering if my opinion will change when I see the movie and Ariana's portrayal of her.
There’s only a little bit of wall space to put things on that will be visible when making videos so I wanted a varied mix of works I enjoy! There are so many great films, I wish I could put more in! 🥰
Great video, it makes me want to reread the series again. I, to this day, have not seen the musical. Mostly due to lack of money for tickets, I was always curious and maybe I have enough distance from the books at this point to take the musical as its own thing. BTW one of my fav “Oz” movies is Muppet Wizard of OZ. I love different takes and remakes and different perspectives on the core story.
I really appreciate your review / summary of the Wicked novel! Honestly, I've lowkey appreciated how unhinged the book gets, despite not reading it in years. There's certain choices they made for the musical adaption that i wish they.... didn’t, but not much we can do about it now lol Although I did appreciate how they werent afraid to show how shitty Boq can be- something I'm a bit 😬 about with the movie, since they posted his character teaser and they talked about some of the changes they chose to make for him. I feel like they're going to try to make Boq more... sympathetic? Them changing his view of Nerissa / him asking Nerissa out is interesting, apparently they changed things with Nerissa in the secind part too (we wont know for sure until that comes out next year though) Would love to see how a straight-forward adaption of the novel would go though. I kind of feel like the tragic ending may not be percieved well with the current culture, unfortunately.
I have been working on a book to film adaptation of Wicked for several years and am ignoring the existence of this film. That is my delusion of grandeur. Who knows. Maybe it will come true one day.
Firstly, your inner benophie sneaking out got the same reaction from me as the clip. Also all those parent buying the book for their kids thinking it's just the same as the stage show, oh boy. Having read the book years ago and before seeing the musical, I remember thinking the show really wasn't anything like the book, bar having some of the same characters.
I read the book when it first came out, and loved it. The introspective, stark story about disenfranchisement really resonated with me as a dark side of Oz kind of story. When I saw Wicked for the first time I was really underwhelmed, and felt like the musical lost a lot of the best parts of the book. Personally, I’ve never felt tempted to see the musical again or see the movie. The music was only fine imo, so if I want to watch a musical about friendship in Oz, I’ll watch the 1939 film. If I want a dark “retelling” story, I prefer the book.
I'm a little bit torn on this one, actually, because I *absolutely* love a story that unabashedly addresses themes of fascism and systemic oppression head on. And I do wish there would be an adaptation of the books that really leaned into that and didn't water it down for the sake of making the story more palatable to the masses. On the other hand, though, when I hear the details of the book's plot, the way it ends feels so nihilistic and hopeless, and I don't know that I can really get behind that either. I have no problem with a much more adult Oz story that goes to some really dark places, especially if it does so for the sake of strong social commentary, but it makes me question if the commentary loses its meaning if it all ends with Elphaba losing everything, dying, and nothing ever getting better? I just feel like, especially given the real life state of the world right now, nihilism isn't going to get us anywhere; I think we need more stories that address fascism head on and have the characters fighting it *winning* , or at the very least leaving off with the hope that the fight can be won. It's so easy to drown under the dread of it all in the real world, and so a story that only leans further into that dread doesn't feel useful in my opinion. So in that sense, I really do appreciate the more hopeful tone that the musical offers, and I do think it's a beautiful story in its own right. But yeah, I guess what would be my favorite is if there was another adaptation that blended the two a bit; keeping the full integrity of the dark themes from the books, but making the changes necessary to lessen the nihilism and give the whole thing a little more hope. That said, yeah, I still do adore Wicked the musical for what it is, and am super excited to see the movie 😊But I really appreciate all of this great insight on the book! I swear I had started reading it years and years ago, but don't think I ever did finish it, so now I'm feeling the pull to read it again now that I'm an adult and would be a lot more aware of the political themes going on in it.
I wouldn’t describe the ending as nihilistic but it is a tragedy for Elphaba. The wizard is overthrown, or at least he runs away from Oz because he knows if he stays they’ll coup him. So more or less, revolution is kicking off, the protagonist simply isn’t around to see it. There’s an implication that Elphaba might rise again (magic exists, after all, and she uses it), but if that’s ever meant to explicitly happen it’s not in that book.
@@LadyJenevia Ahh thanks for clarifying (and sorry if you already noted that in the video - I may or may not have watched it a few days ago and then came back to comment lol), that does make it at least a little more hopeful, though still really depressing for Elphaba! I guess when all the plot points are laid out in a summary it just all feels so bleak, but yeah, it ending on a revolutionary note is definitely more my speed :)
@ I didn’t explain EVERY plot detail because the book was very dense and it wouldn’t have made sense to give more of a plot list and have the video end up being several hours long. I mostly focused on a few main points and capped it when I felt like the outline was already long enough. 😂
Although I've heard the sequel books are not as good, I would love to hear your take on the series by Gregory Maguire on a whole. I believe Glinda is shown briefly in the sequels and is somewhat redeemed as she gets thrown in prison for mildly aiding the revolution. Or at least something like that. I've personally only ever read small excerpts from the books so my perception may be off. But I'm pretty sure she ends her story in prison dreaming of Elphaba. Though tbh the excerpts I've read are all to do with the notion that Glinda was in love with Elphaba and were meant to serve as supporting context to that claim, so again my perception may be off. But an in depth analysis of the whole series from you would be great. You speak very well. I'd read them myself but I've heard that they're graphic, and especially sexually graphic, which sadly I'm not very good with.
Thank you for this. I need to rewatch your video, but did you say if you have read _Son of a Witch_ , _A Lion Among Men_ , _Out of Oz_ ? (Sorry I am currently medicated so things are a bit foggy in my head rn)
I haven’t read the book yet and I’ve been wanting to for like two years 😭 I should buy the book soon wait a little but so I forget most of what the video said 😭 cuz now I can’t go into it blind 😭 it’s just too hard to resist book reviews
It is not a short read, the material was surprisingly dense and there was a lot of information being loaded into the story about the different locations, the history, the ongoing developments of rights being stripped away, protests/protesters being retaliated against, it was A WHOLE LOT, but if you're feeling inclined to revisit it, I highly recommend that!
To be honest, I am actually glad that the musical adaptation didn't stray too far from the original source material (meaning Baum's books) when they decided to adapt _Wicked,_ for the simple reason that this is not some anonymous character arc, or even an anonymous writer that they were dealing with. I think that there is something to say about respect and dignity while using characters and story already in the public domain for adaptation and inspiration purposes. There is always this surge of really graphic and violent "retelling" of a benign character when it gets released to the public domain (think "Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey") as a sort of "shock value". I am not saying Maguire's book did that, it most definitely took inspiration from the source material and went its own way - but when choosing to adapt it to a wider audience - in a stage musical and later a film, I am glad that the Broadway producers took into consideration the wider, more prevalent, consensus that audiences have for _The Wizard of Oz._ I grew up watching and rewatching the 1939 film with Judy Garland. My friends tell me it's the movie I quote the most, and when I tried to read _Wicked_ I simply couldn't get through it, it was so much darker and distorted so much of the charters I knew and loved from my childhood that I didn't want to finish it, but when I saw the musical, I was somewhat appeased about it, it was a middle ground I could "live with".
I don't even to see the musical, to tell you that the book is far better than the musical. I am happy for all the money that Maguire has probably made off of people that would never read a book, at any rate.
I loved the book series, and for folks who complain about how Oz and Glinda and the specism and the rest aren't so bad have not read the rest of Baum's 14 books. It's as that much fascist in the books.
If I’d had more time I would’ve maybe tried to also read the ORIGINAL source material by Baum but the Wicked book was already much more dense than I had anticipated so I ran out of time I had set aside to work on a video about the Wicked book. 😆
Lady Jenevia.. You may not be aware the musical movie is based on the book, according to the producers. That's why the movie is in two parts (Yes most folks are not aware of that). When you see Wicked it is only the first half of the book, with the musical songs dropped in. The second Wicked movie (Part 2) was filmed at the same time and ready for release later. It's an easy way to make more money.
Wow, sounds like "Wicked" the book is a masterpiece!!! 🤩 Edit: I already had no intention of watching* the movie bec. Im tired of Hollywood only remembering, dsbw exist, when they need them to play a scary and/or villain (-adjacent) character*. But now, that I know, that Fiero has been whitewashed since the 1st on-stage production, Im utterly disgusted. 🙃
So speaking purely from the POV of the book material? I think Elphaba being played by Black or Brown performers should have been more of a standard than it seems to be, historically speaking. Her skin colour (green) and the way that she’s perceived and treated by others, and her own journey with herself, it’s kind of hard to explain in a short way because the book is very dense but it’s a very blatant allegory for racism. The Animal rights issue gets a lot of material for how fascism exists and spreads at many different levels, legislatively and culturally. Elphaba is the only green person we ever see so the system isn’t specifically trying to enact laws to take away rights from ‘people like her’ (because she’s the only one as far as we’re aware of). All that to say, I’m glad they didn’t cast a ww to play her for the films, they’ve already had the monopoly on playing her on stage even though it makes far more sense for them to not be prioritised in casting for this character (imo).
@@LadyJenevia I understand your pov and your argument makes 100% sense. To be clear, Im not saying, Elphaba shouldnt be played by a Black actress, Im saying Hollywood likes to pretend, dsbw dont exist, UNTIL a role like Elphaba becomes available. In other words, Im tired of the "paper bag" test being used to decide, which Black actresses will be cast to play a "hero" and the ones cast to play a "villain". It's niche and insiduous but once I started noticing it, I couldnt unsee it. Im still nosy and will look forward to your reviews of the movie.
This is so interesting, I disagree with your interpretation of this story so much but I guess that’s what makes it an amazing book. You say the message is that you have to revolt, you cannot negotiate with the dictator. But Elphaba acts rashly, she becomes a terrorist (not my words, she literally calls herself a terrorist), she murdered people. And because of her refusing to ever compromise, she causes her own downfall. She makes no change at all for the Animals. She accomplishes nothing. I see the book as a cautionary tale to not act like her. Whether or not you agree with what she’s doing, you have to be willing to compromise in politics if you want things to happen. You will never get your way 100%, and if you refuse to settle for less, you will end up with nothing. Or in Elphaba’s case, getting killed by a child after your whole family has been killed having made no real change in the world Re Glinda: in the beginning she is selfish but she is just trying to make it in the world. She comes from a poor family that was barely able to send her to university and she’s trying to rise up the social ladder. Later in the book, although we don’t see much of her, she seems like she just yearns for connection. When she runs into fiyero she just wants to talk to him and he wants to get away, and when she sees Elphaba she is hoping Elphaba will stay. She is unhappy in her high status marriage and just wants to have real friends at that point. I don’t see her as evil at all Also about the shoes, Elphaba doesn’t really have much claim to them. Glinda became Nessarose’s caretaker after Elphaba disappeared, and she and Nessa bonded and became close friends throughout their time at shiz. Glinda is the one who enchants the shoes to give Nessa her independence. Honestly, I think it’s her right to do with the shoes what she wants after Nessa dies. She also sends them with Dorothy to protect her. I don’t think she is trying to spite Elphaba, she pretty clearly says she wants to get Dorothy out of harms way as soon as possible
@TheLoonyLovebad1 one thing I remember from the book was the connection elphaba longed for with her father , the work he put into those shoes he made for favourite child nessa(and watching him make them i think ) she wanted to be connected with him/family through them . Yeah at the end of her life its another object but as a family heirloom the fact someone cast their own magic on them doesn't matter to her.
@ maybe I’m misremembering but I don’t remember her caring like that about the shoes or longing to be connected with her father. She actually reconnects with him as an adult before Nessa dies. And I wasn’t just saying Glinda deserves them because she did magic on them. My point was she became Nessa’s caretaker and did more to help Nessa into adulthood than Elphaba did. Elphaba essentially abandoned everyone. Glinda cared for Nessa and was a real friend to her, and then she does the spell on the shoes that gives Nessa her independence. It makes sense for her to get them after Nessa dies. Elphaba cared about getting them back because she wanted them out of the hands of the wizard (she assumed the wizard would take them from Dorothy), not because they made her feel connected to her family. In the musical, she is very strongly bonded to Nessa. In the book, not so much. Her family by that point is Sarima and her family. She cares more about Nor than Nessa
@TheLoonyLovebad1 yt videos already had me re listening to the book before friday(uk release) But I was wrong she didn't watch her dad make the beads but it was a gift fro her dad to nessa at shiz and at many times throughout its palpable that she wishes she would recieve something or be cared about like nessa. Even in that scene hoping there's something in the box for her. There is nothing for her. Yeah she's not close to nessa when they split (nessa is mayor of a cruel munchkin land , exchanging capital-A-Animals for magical favours and maybe using them as medicine ) she wants to baptise elphaba(in painful water) and make her her right hand to govern munchkin land , elphaba refuses and leaves , but nessa rose still says she will put the shoes in her will for elphaba Elphaba see's the shoes as a sign of her dad's devotion to nessa , like in their talk about turtle heart love triangle , her dad views the shoes as bolstering armor that elphaba didn't need because elphaba was strong enough . But in that convo might be realising all the emotion wrapped up in the shoes , nessa and turtle heart idk . Elphaba still wishes that he had ever made something like that for her . Glinda says she gave the shoes away to help the girl. It was convenient. Glinda has power, somewhat , it was just easier to give away her friend (with living family members , plural) belongings to a girl. She can't say sorry about it , just that elphaba doesn't like shoes and she enchanted them so there.... elphaba could've wanted them in rags too because its significance not use. (Cmon your dads handblown glass beads!) The fact that the shoes are also powerful magic walking their way to the wizard is another problem though. I could see that no one has rights to nessas stuff, but not that exclusively glinda does Which would just make the fact that elphaba lost a family heirloom( Dorothy can't return them) just sad ,it wouldn't be the best situation , there could've been respectful alternatives but it wouldnt be wrong. Nessa was a kindo of independent adult near the end , mostly , because of those shoes she let go of nanny. Idk if we can accurately weigh out support of nanny vs elphaba vs glinda over a lifetime or if it's only near the end that matters , if it matters at all .
I've only watched the musical once though But from the book I did not get that glinda was poor , maybe poor out of the middle/upper class at a strecth - but she would have to be oblivous about it to then expect to have a private room , she is mad that her chaperone got an injury which Impacts her because without the chaperoness conferring in the back about which affluent ladies might get on she won't make upward connections and may have be in a dormitory ( elphaba is technically noble through her mom's side but comes without a chaperone - and poor ) glinda joins ladies outings where she regards its good elphaba doesn't come , glinda wouldnt want that anyway - because the ladies usually go for a modest meal and she doesn't think elphaba can afford to
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Wicked brings me back memories of when I was younger. It's not a mindblowing musical, but it's still a fun musical for teenagers. As I love Jonathan Bailey, I really wish they could've casted a Black actor. I am glad that they cast a disabled actress for Nessarose, though. BTW: I love your pink makeup and the pink shirt and the details in your black shirt.
The musical for some reason merged the characters of Fiyero and Avaric and it actually bugs me so much.
@@AMoniqueOcampo jordan fisher can be a great fiyero
Fiyero is meant to be south Asian, not black.
I read the book first. All of Gregory Maguire’s books have some layer of political or philosophical message conveyed through sometimes unexpected points of view. His work is great. While I like the songs in Wicked the musical, all the lore differences in the story make me unable to watch it knowing there was a more interesting story that the musical writer shredded apart to write the musical from.
HE WAS DARK SKIN 😭😭😭😭😭😭NOBODY TOLD KE THIS BEFORE 😭MY SOUL 😭WEVE LOST A BROTHER 😭
Yup! He sure was! It was news to me, too. I'd never heard anyone talking about the book in detail before.
We were *ROBBED* 😭
His is described as ochre, and Winkie Country is to the East, I assumed he is more of a dark skinned Asian, and blue tattoos would really pop.
This is like when I found out that Prince Charmant (from Ella Enchanted) has "swarthy" or brown skin... Knowing that they whitewashed him in the movie kinda ruined it for me...
@@kohlinoor "swarthy" predates race pseudo-science. It was used by the English, and basically it meant just about everyone that wasn't northern European. Assuming Charmant is French he would be swarthy by default, but Hugh Dancy doesn't look particularly French.
I don't know if I could even compare them, radically different. I would love love love to see a book faithful adaptation of these someday, though. I read it first, I came to Wicked for that darkness, getting songs was a bonus years later.
Just one, PROPERLY FUNDED, LIMITED series that's faithful to the book and also released on PHYSICAL MEDIA, please and thank you. 😊
Some great observations! As far as adaptations go, I think it's noteworthy that the novel is a much closer retelling of Baum' Wizard of Oz (see for example the part where all of Elphaba's animal friends are getting slaughtered by Dorothy's pals). The biggest departure is probably that Maguire uses Elphaba's looks from the 1939 film.
On the other hand, the Broadway version uses the film version as the main source of its retelling (see Glinda's bubble, for instance) due to its instant visual recognizability and popularity. Since the 1939 film is already a pretty watered down version of Baum's book, I think it's forgivable that the Broadway show sticks to the more upbeat, family-friendly side of the spectrum. For a mass commercialized product, it still makes some pretty strong points about how preconceived notions work, how power and propaganda works, how fierce individualism alone cannot enact systemic change etc... and while the Broadway show doesn't end in utter tragedy like Maguire's story, it's also not exactly a super happy ending: Elphaba's mission has failed and now lies in the hand of a less than competent Glinda, Elphie and Fiyero have to flee and will remain villified forever, the Ozians haven't learned a thing, and Glinda thinks all her friends are dead. So it still has a lot of dark complexity going for it, I'd say.
You should read Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister. It’s my favorite Maguire book, I think. Wicked is a close second.
@@NataliaHerrera-ul4gq there’s been suggestions that the movie ever after was based upon it. Loosely.
Okay, so apparently I now need a book adaptation of Wicked, as an entirely separate entity from the musical. Whose social media do I spam to get this to happen?! (Haven't even read this book but I'm fired up, man! 😤)
@@thecavalieryouth You can find the Broadway script online if that interests you.
Many many years ago Salma Hayek actually had the rights to make either a movie or TV series.
Oh what could have been....
I wasn't a huge fan of the books myself. Read them when I was younger and honestly there's some disturbing things,some sexual,that just...never left my mind and kinda creeped me out. No hate to those that liked it,there were some interesting parts and plots but...Some scenes I was questioning if Gregory was just putting his weird sexual fantasies in it. Some stuff was just... unnecessary.
@@loverkitty I totally agree with you so much talk of weird sa which was just unnecessary and ruined the book for me
It may be because I read the book as a tiny child, but i genuinely have a bit of a soft spot for book!Glinda. She is an absolute idiot and a horrific coward, but as far as i remember she was /absolutely/ not happy with her comfortable upper-class life. She'd just made her bed of terrible choices and now she was lying in it.
Re-read it now and circle back so we can see how your opinion compares now. 😊📖
@@LadyJeneviaYeah, I should probably dig it all up from wherever it disappeared. I remember being quite freaked out by a good chunk of the Shiz section, but it would likely be much easier as an adult rather than at eight 😆
I agree, in the beginning she is selfish but she is just trying to make it in the world. She comes from a poor family that was barely able to send her to university and she’s trying to rise up the social ladder. Later in the book, although we don’t see much of her, she seems like she just yearns for connection. When she runs into fiyero she just wants to talk to him and he wants to get away, and when she sees Elphaba she is hoping Elphaba will stay. She is unhappy in her high status marriage and just wants to have real friends at that point. I don’t see her as evil at all
Also about the shoes, Elphaba doesn’t really have much claim to them. Glinda became Nessarose’s caretaker after Elphaba disappeared, and she and Nessa bonded and became close friends throughout their time at shiz. Glinda is the one who enchants the shoes to give Nessa her independence. Honestly, I think it’s her right to do with the shoes what she wants after Nessa dies. She also sends them with Dorothy to protect her. I don’t think she is trying to spite Elphaba, she pretty clearly says she wants to get Dorothy out of harms way as soon as possible
I’ve been finding the discourse around the Wicked book lately so interesting. Wicked was hugely popular when I was in high school and my fellow theater-kid friends were obsessed with it. But any of them who decided to read the book said it was terrible, that the musical was so much better and not to read it, so I never did. Now, I’m seeing so much more praise for the book and people elevating the story above the musical. I might consider reading it now. But I do think they are just so vastly different, it’s difficult to compare.
I haven't seen any previews, but my understanding is that this film adaptation is including some portion of the source material that gets compressed / removed in the stage adaptation -- what aspects and how much remain to be seen. From what I've read, Stephen Schwartz also has two new musical pieces in this film duo, one of which centers on Bailey's Fiyero character (who only has one solo tune that serves as character development in the play). Not sure whether that tune will appear in the first or second Wicked film, but I am not going to complain about more Jonathan Bailey singing! Knew this book would be right up your alley.
I have the book and haven't read it in like 10-15 years so I just started rereading it and how unhinged lol
It's definitely interesting to revisit art you've previously watched/read but don't have a detailed recollection of. If I can't recall specifics of the plot, I usually only remember what my emotional impression was (if any). 😆
@@LadyJenevia yeah exactly lol, I had a vauge memory of the story, but I'm only like a little less than 100 pages in and SO much has happened. I wonder if HBO would pick it up for a mini series at some point
When I started reading it I quickly realised I wouldn’t be able to do as a detailed of an overview of the plot as I originally thought I’d be doing. Even just the first section when Elphaba either hasn’t been born yet or is just a baby/toddler, there is so much detailed storytelling about everything that’s currently going on and has historically gone on. It’s A LOT. 😂
@@LadyJenevia OMG right lol literally her parents storyline ALONE is sooo eventful
Was listening to this like a podcast then I suddenly heard "Shall we, Yerin?" and my head snapped to look so quickly!
Gotta make sure everyone's awake and paying attention! 😂
@LadyJenevia definitely worked on me 😂
This is a fantastic comparison of the book to the musical. The musical was altered to be a lot more family friendly, and I have always found it strange that the musical has the same name as the book and took some of the books ideas while being such a dramatically different story. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the movie! I am very excited to see it as a huge Wicked musical fan myself.
Yeah...reading the book first made me HATE the musical. I don't think I've ever been so disappointed and confused.
Yeah the musical watered down the story to an insulting degree
Bless you for making this to praise the book so vehemently, it's sooo refreshing to see when the collective opinion amongst all the musical-only girlies throughout the years is that the book is "gross and off-putting". Like that's kind of the point but 💁
Prior to the extended media junket for the movie, I don't guess it had ever really occurred to me that those of us who read the book first (and typically prefer it) are such a minority. I read it way back when I was definitely too young to fully process a lot of the subject matter, but even I was bothered by how Sanitized the plot of the musical was when I had the opportunity to see it for myself. Like I'm 90% sure I'd fallen asleep during parts of it because my recollection is so hazy,, which is a shame since I did grow to really appreciate the musical as a completely separate beast later on 🧎
All that said, I'm definitely still eager to see the movie, if nothing else just to indulge in the spectacle of being able to see some form of Elphaba's story take place in a format that actually allows the plot to Breathe, and to pick out what ideas from the book John Chu decided to sprinkle in. It'll be a fun experience that I'll ultimately have to turn my brain off for, but there's a part of me that's hopeful that the success of these movies maaaay spark interest in a proper adaptation for The Wicked Years later on 👉👈
I've watched the stage musical twice, and I hated Glinda. She's such a bully, and I love Elphaba so much that Glinda was never redeemed for me. The sisterhood and friendship between them is beautiful and touching, but I still don't like Glinda. However, it's been a while since I've seen the show, so I'm wondering if my opinion will change when I see the movie and Ariana's portrayal of her.
You have an original Stepford Wives AND a Grease 2 poster up?! Subscribed 😌
There’s only a little bit of wall space to put things on that will be visible when making videos so I wanted a varied mix of works I enjoy! There are so many great films, I wish I could put more in! 🥰
I LOVE YOU!! Thanks for such an incredible review of the Novel!
Great video, it makes me want to reread the series again. I, to this day, have not seen the musical. Mostly due to lack of money for tickets, I was always curious and maybe I have enough distance from the books at this point to take the musical as its own thing.
BTW one of my fav “Oz” movies is Muppet Wizard of OZ. I love different takes and remakes and different perspectives on the core story.
I really appreciate your review / summary of the Wicked novel! Honestly, I've lowkey appreciated how unhinged the book gets, despite not reading it in years.
There's certain choices they made for the musical adaption that i wish they.... didn’t, but not much we can do about it now lol
Although I did appreciate how they werent afraid to show how shitty Boq can be- something I'm a bit 😬 about with the movie, since they posted his character teaser and they talked about some of the changes they chose to make for him. I feel like they're going to try to make Boq more... sympathetic? Them changing his view of Nerissa / him asking Nerissa out is interesting, apparently they changed things with Nerissa in the secind part too (we wont know for sure until that comes out next year though)
Would love to see how a straight-forward adaption of the novel would go though. I kind of feel like the tragic ending may not be percieved well with the current culture, unfortunately.
Okay...you got me so excited I am going from this to my Shakespeare list and picking one of those to watch over lunch break. I need some of that.
I have been working on a book to film adaptation of Wicked for several years and am ignoring the existence of this film. That is my delusion of grandeur. Who knows. Maybe it will come true one day.
You had me with the Grease 2 poster on your wall
This was Excellent!
Firstly, your inner benophie sneaking out got the same reaction from me as the clip.
Also all those parent buying the book for their kids thinking it's just the same as the stage show, oh boy. Having read the book years ago and before seeing the musical, I remember thinking the show really wasn't anything like the book, bar having some of the same characters.
I read the book when it first came out, and loved it. The introspective, stark story about disenfranchisement really resonated with me as a dark side of Oz kind of story. When I saw Wicked for the first time I was really underwhelmed, and felt like the musical lost a lot of the best parts of the book. Personally, I’ve never felt tempted to see the musical again or see the movie. The music was only fine imo, so if I want to watch a musical about friendship in Oz, I’ll watch the 1939 film. If I want a dark “retelling” story, I prefer the book.
I'm a little bit torn on this one, actually, because I *absolutely* love a story that unabashedly addresses themes of fascism and systemic oppression head on. And I do wish there would be an adaptation of the books that really leaned into that and didn't water it down for the sake of making the story more palatable to the masses. On the other hand, though, when I hear the details of the book's plot, the way it ends feels so nihilistic and hopeless, and I don't know that I can really get behind that either. I have no problem with a much more adult Oz story that goes to some really dark places, especially if it does so for the sake of strong social commentary, but it makes me question if the commentary loses its meaning if it all ends with Elphaba losing everything, dying, and nothing ever getting better? I just feel like, especially given the real life state of the world right now, nihilism isn't going to get us anywhere; I think we need more stories that address fascism head on and have the characters fighting it *winning* , or at the very least leaving off with the hope that the fight can be won. It's so easy to drown under the dread of it all in the real world, and so a story that only leans further into that dread doesn't feel useful in my opinion.
So in that sense, I really do appreciate the more hopeful tone that the musical offers, and I do think it's a beautiful story in its own right. But yeah, I guess what would be my favorite is if there was another adaptation that blended the two a bit; keeping the full integrity of the dark themes from the books, but making the changes necessary to lessen the nihilism and give the whole thing a little more hope.
That said, yeah, I still do adore Wicked the musical for what it is, and am super excited to see the movie 😊But I really appreciate all of this great insight on the book! I swear I had started reading it years and years ago, but don't think I ever did finish it, so now I'm feeling the pull to read it again now that I'm an adult and would be a lot more aware of the political themes going on in it.
I wouldn’t describe the ending as nihilistic but it is a tragedy for Elphaba. The wizard is overthrown, or at least he runs away from Oz because he knows if he stays they’ll coup him. So more or less, revolution is kicking off, the protagonist simply isn’t around to see it. There’s an implication that Elphaba might rise again (magic exists, after all, and she uses it), but if that’s ever meant to explicitly happen it’s not in that book.
@@LadyJenevia Ahh thanks for clarifying (and sorry if you already noted that in the video - I may or may not have watched it a few days ago and then came back to comment lol), that does make it at least a little more hopeful, though still really depressing for Elphaba!
I guess when all the plot points are laid out in a summary it just all feels so bleak, but yeah, it ending on a revolutionary note is definitely more my speed :)
@ I didn’t explain EVERY plot detail because the book was very dense and it wouldn’t have made sense to give more of a plot list and have the video end up being several hours long. I mostly focused on a few main points and capped it when I felt like the outline was already long enough. 😂
Although I've heard the sequel books are not as good, I would love to hear your take on the series by Gregory Maguire on a whole. I believe Glinda is shown briefly in the sequels and is somewhat redeemed as she gets thrown in prison for mildly aiding the revolution. Or at least something like that. I've personally only ever read small excerpts from the books so my perception may be off. But I'm pretty sure she ends her story in prison dreaming of Elphaba.
Though tbh the excerpts I've read are all to do with the notion that Glinda was in love with Elphaba and were meant to serve as supporting context to that claim, so again my perception may be off. But an in depth analysis of the whole series from you would be great. You speak very well.
I'd read them myself but I've heard that they're graphic, and especially sexually graphic, which sadly I'm not very good with.
Thank you for this. I need to rewatch your video, but did you say if you have read _Son of a Witch_ , _A Lion Among Men_ , _Out of Oz_ ? (Sorry I am currently medicated so things are a bit foggy in my head rn)
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I haven’t read the book yet and I’ve been wanting to for like two years 😭 I should buy the book soon wait a little but so I forget most of what the video said 😭 cuz now I can’t go into it blind 😭 it’s just too hard to resist book reviews
3:44 immediate like
I read this book so long ago, and now I feel the need to reread it immediately, before the movie comes out!
I think I was too young to grasp all of the political themes.
It is not a short read, the material was surprisingly dense and there was a lot of information being loaded into the story about the different locations, the history, the ongoing developments of rights being stripped away, protests/protesters being retaliated against, it was A WHOLE LOT, but if you're feeling inclined to revisit it, I highly recommend that!
To be honest, I am actually glad that the musical adaptation didn't stray too far from the original source material (meaning Baum's books) when they decided to adapt _Wicked,_ for the simple reason that this is not some anonymous character arc, or even an anonymous writer that they were dealing with.
I think that there is something to say about respect and dignity while using characters and story already in the public domain for adaptation and inspiration purposes. There is always this surge of really graphic and violent "retelling" of a benign character when it gets released to the public domain (think "Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey") as a sort of "shock value". I am not saying Maguire's book did that, it most definitely took inspiration from the source material and went its own way - but when choosing to adapt it to a wider audience - in a stage musical and later a film, I am glad that the Broadway producers took into consideration the wider, more prevalent, consensus that audiences have for _The Wizard of Oz._
I grew up watching and rewatching the 1939 film with Judy Garland. My friends tell me it's the movie I quote the most, and when I tried to read _Wicked_ I simply couldn't get through it, it was so much darker and distorted so much of the charters I knew and loved from my childhood that I didn't want to finish it, but when I saw the musical, I was somewhat appeased about it, it was a middle ground I could "live with".
I actually heard some of the book will be incorporated in the movie
NOT THE “SHALL WE YERIN” 💀
The people need to know! 🥰
I don't even to see the musical, to tell you that the book is far better than the musical. I am happy for all the money that Maguire has probably made off of people that would never read a book, at any rate.
And the author is still writing books in the wicked universe
I love the book and I worry that the movie will be a let down.
I thought hairspray 2017 was good and they can hate but I liked mean girls
I loved the book series, and for folks who complain about how Oz and Glinda and the specism and the rest aren't so bad have not read the rest of Baum's 14 books. It's as that much fascist in the books.
If I’d had more time I would’ve maybe tried to also read the ORIGINAL source material by Baum but the Wicked book was already much more dense than I had anticipated so I ran out of time I had set aside to work on a video about the Wicked book. 😆
Lady Jenevia.. You may not be aware the musical movie is based on the book, according to the producers. That's why the movie is in two parts (Yes most folks are not aware of that). When you see Wicked it is only the first half of the book, with the musical songs dropped in. The second Wicked movie (Part 2) was filmed at the same time and ready for release later. It's an easy way to make more money.
the wicked book sounds so quint essentially american. Holly cow!
I absolutely hate how disneyfied the musical is🥴
14:02 ...............*looks at current political climate of the world*........not going to say anything at this time except, very timely.
To me both movies and book good
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Wow, sounds like "Wicked" the book is a masterpiece!!!
🤩
Edit: I already had no intention of watching* the movie bec. Im tired of Hollywood only remembering, dsbw exist, when they need them to play a scary and/or villain (-adjacent) character*. But now, that I know, that Fiero has been whitewashed since the 1st on-stage production, Im utterly disgusted.
🙃
So speaking purely from the POV of the book material? I think Elphaba being played by Black or Brown performers should have been more of a standard than it seems to be, historically speaking.
Her skin colour (green) and the way that she’s perceived and treated by others, and her own journey with herself, it’s kind of hard to explain in a short way because the book is very dense but it’s a very blatant allegory for racism. The Animal rights issue gets a lot of material for how fascism exists and spreads at many different levels, legislatively and culturally.
Elphaba is the only green person we ever see so the system isn’t specifically trying to enact laws to take away rights from ‘people like her’ (because she’s the only one as far as we’re aware of).
All that to say, I’m glad they didn’t cast a ww to play her for the films, they’ve already had the monopoly on playing her on stage even though it makes far more sense for them to not be prioritised in casting for this character (imo).
@@LadyJenevia I understand your pov and your argument makes 100% sense. To be clear, Im not saying, Elphaba shouldnt be played by a Black actress, Im saying Hollywood likes to pretend, dsbw dont exist, UNTIL a role like Elphaba becomes available.
In other words, Im tired of the "paper bag" test being used to decide, which Black actresses will be cast to play a "hero" and the ones cast to play a "villain". It's niche and insiduous but once I started noticing it, I couldnt unsee it.
Im still nosy and will look forward to your reviews of the movie.
What's dsbw?
This is so interesting, I disagree with your interpretation of this story so much but I guess that’s what makes it an amazing book.
You say the message is that you have to revolt, you cannot negotiate with the dictator. But Elphaba acts rashly, she becomes a terrorist (not my words, she literally calls herself a terrorist), she murdered people. And because of her refusing to ever compromise, she causes her own downfall. She makes no change at all for the Animals. She accomplishes nothing. I see the book as a cautionary tale to not act like her. Whether or not you agree with what she’s doing, you have to be willing to compromise in politics if you want things to happen. You will never get your way 100%, and if you refuse to settle for less, you will end up with nothing. Or in Elphaba’s case, getting killed by a child after your whole family has been killed having made no real change in the world
Re Glinda:
in the beginning she is selfish but she is just trying to make it in the world. She comes from a poor family that was barely able to send her to university and she’s trying to rise up the social ladder. Later in the book, although we don’t see much of her, she seems like she just yearns for connection. When she runs into fiyero she just wants to talk to him and he wants to get away, and when she sees Elphaba she is hoping Elphaba will stay. She is unhappy in her high status marriage and just wants to have real friends at that point. I don’t see her as evil at all
Also about the shoes, Elphaba doesn’t really have much claim to them. Glinda became Nessarose’s caretaker after Elphaba disappeared, and she and Nessa bonded and became close friends throughout their time at shiz. Glinda is the one who enchants the shoes to give Nessa her independence. Honestly, I think it’s her right to do with the shoes what she wants after Nessa dies. She also sends them with Dorothy to protect her. I don’t think she is trying to spite Elphaba, she pretty clearly says she wants to get Dorothy out of harms way as soon as possible
@TheLoonyLovebad1 one thing I remember from the book was the connection elphaba longed for with her father , the work he put into those shoes he made for favourite child nessa(and watching him make them i think ) she wanted to be connected with him/family through them . Yeah at the end of her life its another object but as a family heirloom the fact someone cast their own magic on them doesn't matter to her.
@ maybe I’m misremembering but I don’t remember her caring like that about the shoes or longing to be connected with her father. She actually reconnects with him as an adult before Nessa dies. And I wasn’t just saying Glinda deserves them because she did magic on them. My point was she became Nessa’s caretaker and did more to help Nessa into adulthood than Elphaba did. Elphaba essentially abandoned everyone. Glinda cared for Nessa and was a real friend to her, and then she does the spell on the shoes that gives Nessa her independence. It makes sense for her to get them after Nessa dies. Elphaba cared about getting them back because she wanted them out of the hands of the wizard (she assumed the wizard would take them from Dorothy), not because they made her feel connected to her family. In the musical, she is very strongly bonded to Nessa. In the book, not so much. Her family by that point is Sarima and her family. She cares more about Nor than Nessa
@TheLoonyLovebad1 yt videos already had me re listening to the book before friday(uk release)
But I was wrong she didn't watch her dad make the beads but it was a gift fro her dad to nessa at shiz and at many times throughout its palpable that she wishes she would recieve something or be cared about like nessa. Even in that scene hoping there's something in the box for her. There is nothing for her.
Yeah she's not close to nessa when they split (nessa is mayor of a cruel munchkin land , exchanging capital-A-Animals for magical favours and maybe using them as medicine ) she wants to baptise elphaba(in painful water) and make her her right hand to govern munchkin land , elphaba refuses and leaves , but nessa rose still says she will put the shoes in her will for elphaba
Elphaba see's the shoes as a sign of her dad's devotion to nessa , like in their talk about turtle heart love triangle , her dad views the shoes as bolstering armor that elphaba didn't need because elphaba was strong enough . But in that convo might be realising all the emotion wrapped up in the shoes , nessa and turtle heart idk . Elphaba still wishes that he had ever made something like that for her .
Glinda says she gave the shoes away to help the girl. It was convenient. Glinda has power, somewhat , it was just easier to give away her friend (with living family members , plural) belongings to a girl. She can't say sorry about it , just that elphaba doesn't like shoes and she enchanted them so there.... elphaba could've wanted them in rags too because its significance not use. (Cmon your dads handblown glass beads!) The fact that the shoes are also powerful magic walking their way to the wizard is another problem though.
I could see that no one has rights to nessas stuff, but not that exclusively glinda does
Which would just make the fact that elphaba lost a family heirloom( Dorothy can't return them) just sad ,it wouldn't be the best situation , there could've been respectful alternatives but it wouldnt be wrong.
Nessa was a kindo of independent adult near the end , mostly , because of those shoes she let go of nanny. Idk if we can accurately weigh out support of nanny vs elphaba vs glinda over a lifetime or if it's only near the end that matters , if it matters at all .
I've only watched the musical once though
But from the book I did not get that glinda was poor , maybe poor out of the middle/upper class at a strecth - but she would have to be oblivous about it to then expect to have a private room , she is mad that her chaperone got an injury which Impacts her because without the chaperoness conferring in the back about which affluent ladies might get on she won't make upward connections and may have be in a dormitory ( elphaba is technically noble through her mom's side but comes without a chaperone - and poor ) glinda joins ladies outings where she regards its good elphaba doesn't come , glinda wouldnt want that anyway - because the ladies usually go for a modest meal and she doesn't think elphaba can afford to
Elphaba's death does indirectly led to freeing Oz from its tyrant, so she made at least one little change