same feeling here. I would never pick that one and I can hardly imagine I will play this game that much, that I ever get to a point that it changes. This relic is Z tier for me.
I kinda feel like Runic Dome gets overvalued a lot of the time. Yes, many enemies have patterns that you can play into, but the moment you run into an enemy with unpredictable patterns, is the moment when your run is on thin ice. Blocking on a turn where they aren't attacking quickly wastes a lot of energy, but not blocking risks taking a huge chunk of damage which can easily result in your untimely demise. Only really worth taking on block building or infinite decks.
One reason why I would avoid runic dome at all costs, even when my deck is powerful enough to end most fights in just a couple of turns, is that it makes me feel like I'm fighting inanimate objects instead of enemies. The lack of the intent symbols over the enemies head makes the fights way less engaging to me for some reason.
Runic Dome directly violates a very important game design rule: Never confuse "interesting" with "fun". Runic Dome is interesting sure, but absolutely isn't fun.
@@_APG_ It's an example of "if you understand the rules, you know when to break them". ie, You always get 3 options for a boss relic - since you're never force to pick the Runic Dome they can put it in the game. The relic is still be fun for expert-players who memorized every attack pattern in the game & want to test their knowledge of the game. You can still get Runic Dome as a starting relic from Neow - but again, you're no obligation to take the "risky" blessing.
@@n0xureI understand what they were thinking, but it still breaks the "don't confuse interesting with fun" game design rule. Catering a boss relic like that to the 0.1% of expert players is just a classic game design mistake. It's not going to be fun or useful to the other 99.9% of players. If they wanted something like that make it an optional challenge mode from the start.
I would take tiny house way more often if it allowed me to choose which card to upgrade. As is it almost always upgrades a strike or defend whenever I get it.
Well, usually players leave their Strikes and Defends in their deck rather than utilizing card removal at the merchants to get rid of them as they collect better Attack and Defends that cost the same.
I think it would be too powerful if you could choose which card to upgrade. Maybe instead, it should randomly select 4 unupgraded cards in your deck and you choose which of those 4 gets upgraded.
@@QuasiTronOfficial You'll never get rid of all your defends and strikes by Act 2 even if always remove cards at the merchant. The common cards you take in Act 1 are also bad targets for the upgrade.
Ok, I finally had the S-tier Tiny House! It was so glorious that I took it over the Runic Pyramid(!). I was Ironclad, on a power/exhaust-heavy run. I had the Membership Card so the 50 gold was actually like 100. I had taken the Apparition event earlier, so the +5 HP was really +10. The random card upgrade rolled onto Disarm, nice. I also had a ? Card (and Singing Bowl), and incredibly the fourth card offered was an upgraded Rupture (my second copy, plus I also already had Brutality at this point). Plus the potion roll awarded me with a Flex Potion for good measure. Best Tiny House I've ever seen.
I never thought about wrist blade much but it actually has a lot of synergies. Eviscerate can benefit, all the 0 cost cards that already exist of course, good synergy with mummy hand, good synergy with madness, and all the synergies mentioned by ballord
Also good with Metamorphosis and Snecko Eye. I probably wouldn't pick it after a Snecko Eye pick, but I might pick Snecko Eye after, especially if I'm running Bullet Time or Wraith Form.
Just had a run with pen nib, wrist blade, the relic that gives you 3 strength on turn 1. The eviscerate benefited 3 times from all of these, which allowed be to breeze by all of act 2. Went on to get tough bandages, and with two calculated gambles+ it was a comfortable heart fight
Feels like Sacred Bark is the one you consider for a second before picking something else. Really neat on paper and potentially good with Potion Belt or Alchemize, but... how about that energy relic?
Busted crown is fine imo, but only if your deck is basically already pretty strong. If anything, it is a win more relic as opposed to anything that will really help you.
Runic Done vs spaghetti best interaction, not being able to control the rerolls means guilt free damage. Might not be objectively good but it feels good.
I tried the astrolabe as a replacement starter relic on the silent. Got a footwork+ Noxious Fumes+ and a storm of steel plus. This is gonna be fun. Thank you! And for your vids too.
Alright I admit it, after beating an ascension run starting with snecko eye on defect, it is in fact OP af. I took 2 meteor strikes, an echo form, and a couple holograms so that when I drew a low cost meteor strike I would just cycle it with hologram over and over for tons of energy. Though not infinite, I dispatched the heart with ease, barely taking damage as I was fully blocking most of it. One of my easiest runs in recent memory
I like watcher’s and ironclad’s upgrade relics the most. The other 2 actually come with a meaningful downside and can just be flat out worse, while those two are strictly beneficial
@@Destrolll It's a fucking upgraded rune, you can't give an effect equal to an existing card, even a common one 😅 Healing 12 hp after combat isn't "broken"?
@@BioTheHuman I personally think black blood isn't broken at all. First of all, you gotta survive to get its benefit. That means you must be rather well-off already before taking it. Second of, you can't get it by boss relic swapping. That means you usually throw energy relics for 6 extra heal per-combat, when you could've blocked that 6 damage by simply playing block+. Ironclad's cards are very damn expensive to boot. Third of, it's the damn ironclad's speciality relic. That blockhead would either headslam his enemy and heal in-combat via reaper, or just block for 500 and take -6 damage via barricade × burning blood. And what does he struggle with? It's the damn energy all over again.
@@BioTheHuman healing 12hp after combat is brokent, that's why meat on the bone is good. Purple flame sucks. 6 is plenty in most cases, if your deck is any good that is, and if it isn't, then you die anyways.
@@artvandelay5565 only if you’re drawing reflex every turn. And even then, you’re just breaking even on cards if it’s a reflex+ And old reflex drew one less card, too.
@@artvandelay5565 It literally ONLY works if you have Unceasing Top, because guess what cards the Silent has? EVEN MORE Discard cards. Imagine trying to survive with Survivor in your hand, and even if you have top, pray to RNG you draw a usable card, less it be a curse or status; youre screwed.
I got snecko eye as a relic exchange in the beginning from Neow on ironclad. Queue rolling through the spire with an exaust deck with a ton of high-cost cards.
On Defect, inserter is 100% my favorite relic. I'd place it as an A or possibly S, as long as you don't swap into it, which I agree is a rough start. The Watcher, LOVE both of her options but prefer the violet lotus. On Iron Clad his specific ones literally just suck, with some niche powerful uses. Overall I'll almost never grab his relics. I have enjoyed black blood however, it's just usually not preferable to almost any choice for me. With the Silent? GOD her relics are great. Kite and Wrist Blade more specifically tho her ring of the serpent is a wonderful act 2 boss pick, or it CAN be. Also, I'd totally put frozen core in A, myself. The amount of runs it has just won for me is astounding. Or well, majorly helped. The impact it has is insane if you have any of the given requirements. Without them it's similar to just...having metallicize that gets a little stronger, always active. Not bad, not great. But hell, any buff to your focus and damn it's OP. My favorite boss relic is probably Astrolabe. Swapping into it is a chaotic fun start and Act 1 it's usually a HUGE power boost even at 3 energy. It can still be great at the end of Act 2 but by then I prefer the calling bell, so it's not 100% Astrolabe for me because it does depend on when I'm grabbing it. But overall I definitely pick it up more than any relic
It's nice to know the swap rankings, but you have no control over what you get, so ranking by other criteria (where you're picking a specific relic) is much more useful.
I believe you underrate the impact of lotus. Its easily S Lotus is easy to turn into what I call "engine". The way of your deck to draw and play its objectives/"scale" Lotus does that immediately and easily. With cards like rushdown and empty mind. You can easily cycle your calms into draws. If you have a way to mass draw like with scrawl, lotus will translate to much more than 1 energy per turn. As it allows you to play an additional card drawing card which can draw you calm cards I also believe you underrate sozu. Potions are invaluable resources, but the additional energy can help you circumvent alot of the situations you'd otherwise use a potion. If you play around having sozu its insanely good
I believe they mean the part about it being situational and such, and that it's onky good in some decks as truthfully like baalor said, Runic Dome's downside isn't actually as heavily impactful as other energy relic downsides as playing around it's downside relies entirely on your knowledge and good judgement rather than like with Cursed Key making you avoid chests and such, not saying that Cursed Key is bad, but Runic Dome's downside is only really a downside against something like the Writhing Mass as enemy attack patterns are very predictable and the enemies that do have chances to vary attack patterns like Gremlin Leader are still predictable to a point as for the Gremlin Leader for example, they areguaranteed to attack after their buff turn if both gremlins are still alivebut if one or two are dead they are more likely to summon more than attack, so people who are more experienced and have remembered enemy intents are able to take Runic Dome and work with it as if it's downside weren't evident at all against most enemies.
@@kirotakahashi7173 The problem with gremlin leader is he still has a chance to attack you even both gremlins are dead. So it's a relic which has downsides, even if you know all the enemy patterns or sit with wiki opened. Therefor first commenter is correct dome is good in the decks that have proactive attack/block plan. And way more limiting in ones that are more reactive. And worst of all Baalor mentioned that Time Eater is one of such enemies, Heart while mostly consistent also has RNG in attack patterns (big hit => x15 or x15 => big hit). So if you're A20 player who aims for heart and youri block plan can't be summarized as "i block naturally as a part of my gameplan" (stance dance, barricade clad, frost defect) it's really hard to justify dome pick for me because it has a downside of "you guessed wrong, take 30-60 damage to your face, friend".
I can't recall ever having won a run when I picked velvet choker. it really does CHOKE your capability and flexibility too much. too much luck involved in trying to build around it, let alone adding it late in a run.
I think it's really good but require building your deck very differently. And yeah you don't get to go for silly infinites but often you don't need to. It's especially strong in conjunction with snecko eye. A lot of 2 cost cards in the game are really solid but awkward without 4 energy and it fixes that and allow you to pick them up more freely. It's not the most fun relic cause a lot of very cool cards or combos just don't work with it but if you got a consistent deck of high value cards it does the job. One thing is also that, a lot of the more out there thing are kinda overkill, you don't need to pop off that much to win a run, even vs the heart. Velvet choker usually gives you just enough that you win if you play correctly but it's never an overwhelming or impressive win so it doesn't *feel* strong, but it's genuinely solid.
When I first started playing, i jusy kept taking the swap because it forced me to learn to deal with a sub-optimal build. I never took Dome before i got it as a swap, and I surprised myself with how well I knew the enemy patterns and realized i was treating intents as a crutch.
I feel like Runic Dome and Snecko Eye are *SUPER* player dependent. Like, for newer players, they both deserve D tier, because they are nearly guaranteed to sink your run if you're not at least working your way through higher Ascension levels. But for players who are at the point of climbing to higher Ascension levels, they can deserve that S rank, because such players have already developed the baseline skill and knowledge of the game to work around their disadvantages. I'd tend to rate them both low, because players who know enough to use them properly don't need a tier list to tell them what's good and what's not.
You can say this about many, many cards and relics in the game. Your typical inexperienced Slay the Spire player who only recently unlocked all of the content is probably going to tell you Demon Form is good because it's infinite scaling, Wraith Form and Biased Cognition are bad because of the debuffs, Sozu is good because who needs potions, Grand Finale is bad because hand control doesn't exist, Flex is a good card because it's "Free Damage," Runic Pyramid kills you because of hand clog, the Watcher is hard to win with in general, etc etc. A Slay the Spire tier list is best taken with a grain of salt anyway, but if you're going to rate stuff for fun it might as well be from the perspective of someone who only does A20 heart runs.
ngl after 2k hours of slay the spire (200 ish idle hours and about half the play time being either me achievment grinding or playing it in the background of a anime) I still struggle with using potions effectively. I think I still use them not enough but finding that balance is tricky especially in act 1 imo.
The busted crown makes decision making very easy and the merchant more fun. Just speaking on casual play. I've had a couple runs I was happy to get it from our good ole friend Whale.
It's interesting to see how different streamers rank relics. Most relics end up in similar spots, but there are some that people have more varied opinions. Wrist blade, sozu, burning blood, calling bell, runic cube are notorious examples.
Cool video! As a newbie (on ascension 6), I found your high ranking of pandora's box to be really interesting. I get the reasoning but I always find getting it as a relic trade or before stage 2 to be a mixed blessing, especially as a trade. My fastest losses have usually been from a Pandora's box trade as I'll get 2-3 cards I like, another 2-3 that have potential but little starting synergy, and the rest are junk or too expensive to rely on. I'll often find myself missing the humble, but consistent, 1 cost strikes and defends. I find it more consistent after the first boss, when I at least have some synergies going and some other consistent dmg/block dealers
Pandora's box is generally stronger the earlier you get it, because you're getting A) more cards out of it, and B) more time to draft around the transforms. A random card in your character's pool is almost guaranteed to be better than strike or defend, and getting them earlier in the run gives you more opportunities to lean into synergies or shore up new weaknesses. Most really good players who win A20H runs consistently consider an "average" pbox swap (ie not accounting for any specific transforms) to be the single strongest thing you can get from Neow, and a highroll box is easily the strongest possible start to a run. There are probably lowrolls that theoretically exist where you lose all of your damage cards and just can't kill Jaw Worm or Cultist on floor 1 before they scale out of control; but if you swap into pbox and lose, it's more likely that you made incorrect plays than that you got a box that was truly unwinnable.
@@elim9054 oh, I get the reasoning behind its strengths and totally agree I'm the reason those runs fail (on A6 and all that). Tbh I'm still learning a lot. I just think it's neat how the game has a relic that can seemingly change in value from a "trap relic" for newbies like me, to arguably being the best relic in the game for more experienced players. I think that's really cool design and I can only think of a couple other games that have something like that.
ehh . . . I have a difficult time with Pandora's Box if I'm being honest. There's been a handful of times where it's given me only one or no block in my deck and I'm gone within the next two hallway fights.
I've always avoided pandoras box- probably stupid of me I just always got spooked by its randomness+ im usually a sucker for extra energy. I'll pick it my next few runs see if it helps.
Runic Dome is excellent if your deck does not care whatsoever what the enemy is doing like a Turtle build for Ironclad or a Frost build for Defect, for example. These decks simply aim to gain as much Block as possible, and they don't give a damn if the enemy is attacking or not. An infinite damage combo decks also don't care about the enemy intents, since they end the fight on turn 1 or turn 2.
@@bobthebox2993 i think its just that at that point enemies stop gaining different "enemies/elites are deadlier" from ascension, or just the fact that by the time someone hits a18+ they prob have knowledge/experience to just know the attack patterns better
@@jjrulez1596 actually, at a17, 18, and 19 for normal fights, elites, and bosses, respectively, the patterns become much more predictable a lot of the time. An example of this is gremlin nob will always vulnerable - big attack - big attack repeat on a18+. I think that this is often because it guarantees the worst possible attack pattern, but it also allows for players to know what the enemy will do next turn / if they have a runic dome
Most of the relics are extremely situational. The crown for example can be as high as S Tier and as low as D Tier. Sometimes a good deck is already developed within 4-5 card pick ups and 2-3 card removals, which can happen in act 1 already. Picking up a crown then can be S Tier. Other times you are missing key cards in your deck that you need to find quickly, thus making the crown not only bad, but detrimental.
Differences with my own opinions: D: Ectoplasm (It’s probably my least favorite boss relic, especially since it guarantees a thieves fight next floor if you take it going to act 2[sarcasm]. I value card removes very highly.) C: Sacred Bark (This may be due to me valuing potions low, using them too liberally, and/or being stuck with two slots, but I’ve never had a run where I felt like the line between a W/L was severed by bark) Velvet Choker (look, man, I like to play cards. I will note I think this relic is way better if you start with it to build around it, but seeing it on the reward screen usually is unsatisfying for me, especially after act 2.) Fusion Hammer (If I find a way around it, I like it, but other than that, I also value upgrades very highly, and them being turned off makes fires a lot less appealing to me, especially considering how many upgrades can be spent to basically become energy upgrades if I really need to pivot that way.) B: Sozu (Again, maybe I just don’t value potions high enough, but imo you’re taking Sozu because you think your deck is strong enough to win without them, and with it, I feel like it does.) Wrist Blade (hey, get down from S-tier, you’re gonna hurt yourself up there. It’s good if you find shivs, but if you don’t find shivs, I feel like it does next to nothing.) Inserter (I think it’s better than any of the other ones in C tier, and I just like them. I also just liberally take Consume anyways, so that’s part of it.) The way I see it, the tiers can be described like this: “I’ll take this relic…” S - “and win the run with this relic alone.” A - “very happily in most cases.” B - “and not feel bad about it most of the time.” C - “because I had no other choice.” D - “…why, exactly? There’s only two options in this tier, I’m taking the third one.” One note about dome specifically is that only on Watcher, I actually think it’s C-tier, because it means I can no longer end my turn in wrath without risking a reset, which is, for me at least, usually a fine line between winning a fight and losing a fight where the enemy takes a turn off. Also, if you’re for some reason playing prismatic defect, take battery as it now has almost no downside at all. Do note I like your list, I just felt like sharing mine for the sake of discussion.
I got cracked crown as a boss swap a little while ago and then got offered nothing but 0 cost cards throughout the first act. I think I literally only got 1 card with any cost.
I’d love to see you do a tier list for each hero. For example, the downside of Collar is brutal on Watcher but on Ironclad I barely notice. The relative value of the energy relics in general differ a lot by hero. Ironclad tends to need energy the most due to his high-cost cards & lack of a good card-based solution to energy like Watcher (calm stance shifting, Deva form) & Defect (plasma). Side note: are you trolling us by putting wrist blade in S tier? The others in S tier make sense but that 1 is so niche. If you’re going to rank them based on how good a relic could be in a deck that’s perfect for it, then Watcher’s Flower & Ironclad’s Mark should be higher, too. My biggest difference of opinion on this list is with Ectoplasm, which I’d put in A. I tend to save my gold from Act1, so I’ll have at least 1 removal if needed. Also, I consider Runic Dome to be totally out of place in the game. It ruins the game for me, bc why put in all the effort then get Time Eater or the spaghetti hallway battle. Tbh I wish Megacrit would give us an option to omit it, or someone would code a mod to do that
Dome is definitely situational, but if you have a deck that blocks while doing damage each turn it is very op. The spaghetti monster fight is only bad if you get cursed, but the curse has no combat downside so it’s not too hard to play around. The worst fight for it is the nemesis because you have to block 40 every turn to be safe and the fight can go on so long. But definitely give dome a try when build around it you’ll see how powerful it can be. I also think its interesting that you like ecto I always find it so hard to use because of the thieves in act 2 and no card removes are guaranteed without gold.
I thought this would be a video about Neow's 4th option to trade your starting relic for a boss relic ... and then rank the boss relics by tier accordingly.
i know snecko eyes is good, but ive been screwed by it too often to like it. now i pretty much only pick it up if i already have a bunch of high cost cards that are more likely to benefit from the random cost. also i feel like mark of pain is definitely better than C? i often pick up an evolve anyway even if im not playing a status deck, just to counteract enemy status effects and if you get it early you can easily build around it and make a very good status deck.
The wounds are still really bad and you still have to draw evolve before your wounds to actually mitigate them, which won't happen every fight. If you have a bottled evolve (or a bottled dark embrace with medkit) then mark of pain becomes incredible because it's just free energy, but that's a very uncommon situation.
I just beat the heart with Defect for the first time starting with nuclear battery building into melee, was only A3 but steamrolled the whole way. Super fun!
The paradox is Silent gets the least out of the Sneko Eye, Silent doesn't get as much out of Runic Pyramid, but Silent can tolerate an accidental Pyramid + Sneko. Ironclad can discard and if you're putting wounds in or you have a curse, then Ironclad is better but for the most part Silent has so much discard it can get the Sneko high-costs to recycle extremely easily.
? Silent probably has the strongest runic pyramid out of all of the characters. I often take it even if I already have a well-laid plans because it's literally that good.
End of act 2 you can definitely pick crown and not feel bad some runs where you truly just need energy to make your deck work with little improving it that you can still use shops for. The issue with ectoplasm though is it's only offered act 1 so it will cost you heavily, particularly if you have any wish or hand of greed like things going for you. If you have ? card it's a bit more pickable act 1 as 2 card rewards is still kind of solid.
I’ve completed A15 with all characters and have beaten the heart with three characters and I JUST realized how awesome Snecko Eye is. I used to avoid it because I thought the confusion made things too unpredictable, but that’s actually the benefit of the card. You can run into some insane combos. I don’t even play without enemy intents. That’s way too much work. Also, great video. I made my way here from Reddit. Enjoying your stuff.
I know its just because I suck (and yes I've had a couple A20 wins), but I've literally never had a Pandora's Box that didn't almost instantly get me killed. Last one for example, double juggernaut, double barricade, Clash......literally 0 block cards
I hate rolling for boss relic at the start, it's always given me crown and I have to reset (crown is pretty much the one thing I'll reset on, even Sozu lets me build around and make a more consistent deck)
I think it can be acceptable if you have a draw-heavy deck (especially an Evolve) and need energy to round it out, but it's not an ideal way to get energy. Even if you do have Evolve you'll inevitably have fights where draw order screws you.
Philo Stone is a pretty bad end of Act 1 relics for one reason: Byrds. Also, if Calling Bell gives you Du-Vu Doll, it’s like having a bonus Vajra. I have had this happen.
yeah, the meatball is another fight where this relic can heavily penalize you. I for one NEVER take this relic. Very surprised he rated it so highly, especially give the downside to streams that he even noted. he personally should have rated it D tier.
I've been playing StS for a little over a year and I've read the effect of frozen core wrong this whole time. I thought it would only trigger if *all* of your orb slots were empty and I was like "why the fuck would anyone ever take this??"
@@szelitzkyerick7456 I love it if you have the right deck. I beat a20 with it the other day. Echo form, plus any focus ^ card can add so much defense with just that one extra frost orb you get. I was get 18 block per frost orb.
Snecko is the exact opposite of Pyramid (inconsistency vs. consistency) I can not understand the appeal of snecko unless you can survive until you get an entire hand around it. Unfortunately it ruins tons of builds immediately.
Passively drawing through your deck and getting your key cards in play 40% faster is actually great for consistency, and the cost randomization is a huge asset for most of the strongest cards. Corruption and Meteor Strike are just two examples of cards that can literally make Snecko eye a good pick all on their own.
Snecko just says grab every win-con you see and hope you resolve a couple early. It goes hard with Genetic Algorithms, Ritual Daggers, any powers with big impact, Exhaust cards to play just one card over and over, unplayable discard cards and Gambles, Frost cards, almost any cards that can normally be played for two or more (ie. X and >2 cards), the list goes on. The question with Snecko you gotta ask is “Out of a random seven cards off the top, are you okay with on average playing a random three and in the worst case playing exactly one of your choice, with getting a chance at the best case of playing all seven?”.
I always die not long after getting snecko eye and having all my block cards cost 2 and 3 on high damage turns. It’s only good if you have a ton of 2+ cost carts in your deck.
Just lost a Watcher run to Snecko. Plenty of 2 cost cards, teo 3 cost, one 4 cost, so I thought "alright, if not now, then never". Turns out it randomizes cost of even 0 cost generated draws like insight, reach heaven etc, killing me after 3 atrocious luck fights back to back. Never it is, I guess.
I honestly find the fusion hammer much less useful than the coffee dripper, there are overall less opportunities for upgrades than healing with the most abundant sources of upgrading coming from act 1, by then you wont have your build even fully defined yet. I only see myself taking the hammer in situations where i have a bottled apotheosis, if im past act 2 with no need for upgrades or i have a minimalist deck.
Most players at the top level would agree with you. Bailor just wasn't ready to put coffee dripper in s tier, which I might actually disagree with. Fusion hammer has enough work arounds that a-tier seems reasonable. A bunch of upgrades are energy upgrades, which fusion hammer essentially gives you by giving that extra energy, plus the fact that you've probably upgraded some of your good cards already, plus apotheosis or lesson learned.
Fun fact about calling bell, the 3 relics you get upfront are the same 3 relics you will be rewarded with in the run in your next 3 elite fights and or chest rooms were you not to take it. Its kind of cheaty but you can use it as intel by picking it after the boss fight to see what the upcoming rewards on the next floor will be, then save scum out and pick a different relic if you want but with the insight on what you can expect to build around coming up. Again its a little cheaty but of all the ways you can save scum around in the game that one seems kind of mild imo
Doesn't the Silent's upgrade only cost one card; not two? It still applies turn 1, so instead of two extra cards, you draw one. Which means you break even on turn 2 and come out ahead turn 3.
Turn 1 is the most important turn of every fight, getting those powers into play or spinning up that infinite relies on getting as many cards as possible.
"Hovering Kite is a no downside energy relic..." The downside is the opportunity cost of the relic you aren't taking instead, which is especially true if you can't utilize it.
Pretty cool to see how this changes with playstyle, from what i've seen and heard from your other videos is that you tend to use a way bigger deck, with way more block than I do. Because of this a lot of the list is pretty flipped for me
you clearly need to make at least 2 tables. one for relics as boss swaps, and one where you get the relic later. maybe even a table where you rate relics that are dependent on other relics to really be good.
Coffee Dripper is the only one I'd wildly disagree with. Maybe I'm just bad at the game, but I consider the ability to Rest, particularly in the third act, to be essential.
Well one thing is that with the lack of meaningful downside coffee dripper leads to you *needing* to rest less. you'll take less damage in combat because of the energy and your deck will develop better. So if you end up needing to heal with coffee dripper odds are you'd have already lost that run with another relic.
I really don't see how Electoplasm made it past the D ranking, especially as you cannot get it in act 2. If you start with it, you can basically say goodbye to your run on the spot, and it's also really bad to get in act 1. Being able to buy stuff is just too important.
I avoid snecko eye at all cost, it ruins my runs. I like cursed bell - 3 relics. Busted crown is good relic, especially when you have built your deck. And of course, everything else depends on achievement you want to get. I've got all achievements after 600+ hours of playing :) For me, the hardest one was to beat the game under 20 min
All four characters have access to cards that are very strong with Snecko. Corruption+Snecko and Meteor Strike+Snecko are two of the strongest synergies in the entire game. Busted Crown is just ass. Almost zero runs can expect to end act 1 or 2 in a position where no more cards are needed to kill Heart.
The first (and so far only) winning run I had with Defect was based around Fusion Battery, one Recursion to put it in front, then as many Loops as I could find to get So. Much. Energy.
Tiny house is hot garbage to me honestly, as a boss relic. No downside is nice but it’s lack of any real benefit is too much of a downside. If the upgrade was targeted, it gave more money, or gave more max health I think it would be a competitive choice but I only take it if the others are useless or risk killing the run entirely
Runic dome is terriboe because enemies DON'T have consistent attack patterns. Tbere are too many enemies which randomly pick between several actions on a turn and there's too much energy wasted guessing that the extra one doesn't matter
Philosopher stone I think is the only relic That I like to get as both swap and end of act 2 but not end of act 1. The bird fight, book of stabbing and gremlin leader just get wayyy too much value out of it so I'm rarely comfortable picking it for act 2, but if I get it as a swap I can plan around it a bit better Also sozu at D rank sounds plain wrong tbh. Like yeah potions are good but the downside is basically nonexistent. Early on an energy relic is good enough that it makes potion not really needed. And having an energy relic with no concrete downside for your deckbuilding means you're much more likely to get an unstoppable deck later on. It's on par with coffee dripper in that it makes it's own downside obsolete by making it so you don't need the thing it takes away from you if you take it. Though I feel like you're ranking this heavily focusing on the relic swap which is really weird considering that it's 1) not mandatory 2) you got no control over it. So it's a very narrow use case for boss relics and one where tier info isn't super useful.
I feel like people just say dome is good as some kind of flex to say they know all the monster patterns. I just can't see how the dome is legitimately good even if you DO know the patterns, because there IS still RNG when and how they choose to attack alot of the time. Even the heart, like the most predictable fight in the game, randomly chooses its big smack attack that you can buffer or whatever, or its 12 hit one where buffer would be useless, and instead you'd want to use piercing wail or something.
plus, it's quite bad for streamers, as viewers WANT to be able to see how experts react when given a specific circumstance, and dome shows you... nothing. I found it rather odd he rated it so high, even while he noted this extreme downside for his streams. weird dissonance there.
Dome is really good not only on deterministic fights. But it forces a certain playstyle It basically forces you into maximizing your defensive objerctive. You can't defend for exact amounts and invest the rest of the energy into damage. Instead you have yo make sure you cover worst case scenario every time. Play all the cards you can That means you want to build around decks that want to get off everything they need. Like the ironclad turtle and the defect frost decks It also means it anti synergistic with relics that depends on you limiting your play. Ice cream, stop watch, all those are bad with dome. Velvet chocker especially is a run killer But relics that allow you to play as many cards as possible, like snecko, nunchaku, ink bottle. Are all great with dome
Call me crazy, but I really, *really* don't like snecko eye. It just seems to way more often fuck me over than not, but thats always my luck with games. The more luck based it is, the worse I will, inevitably, do with it.
i feel you were way too harsh on the busted crown.. its rly amazing to take after act 2 when u already have the cards you need or even missing a few cause you can just visit shops to get the last cards you need and you might even get them from the single card reward.. so i feel busted crown should be atleast a C tier or even B
Most of the time in higher ascension you won't have most of the cards you need since you need to draft very agressively for act 1 and 2, and then you have to start drafting to scale and block in act 3 and 4'
Here's the thing, if you don't need any more cards, then you probably don't need the energy either. It's pretty rare to have all the cards you need but really need one more energy. Not impossible, but niche, which is why it is rated d tier.
What's your favorite Boss Relic? Comment Below!
Gotta be Runic Dome, not seeing enemy intents feels like the ultimate challenge of knowing the game and risk vs reward with how much I should block.
Snecko by far. It does the card draw and the energy things.
I always get Fusion Hammer due to i can get lucky on getting Apotheosis as a card reward or buy in shop to upgrade some useful cards.
Hmmm, gotta be black blood, I love smorc-ing!
Astrolabe - because it's Pandora's Box but less scary!
Runic dome is an absolute run killer. When I have to turn off my music and look up enemy turn intents I’d rather just turn off the game lol
Well he's basing it off high level gameplay. After playing for a while you kinda just know what they're most likely to do.
same feeling here.
I would never pick that one and I can hardly imagine I will play this game that much, that I ever get to a point that it changes.
This relic is Z tier for me.
From my experiences Runic Dome is solid but I vomit a little if I have it and run into a Maw or Writhing Mass in act 3 lol
I kinda feel like Runic Dome gets overvalued a lot of the time. Yes, many enemies have patterns that you can play into, but the moment you run into an enemy with unpredictable patterns, is the moment when your run is on thin ice.
Blocking on a turn where they aren't attacking quickly wastes a lot of energy, but not blocking risks taking a huge chunk of damage which can easily result in your untimely demise.
Only really worth taking on block building or infinite decks.
LOL what a NoOb rolf learn to play hahaha xD
One reason why I would avoid runic dome at all costs, even when my deck is powerful enough to end most fights in just a couple of turns, is that it makes me feel like I'm fighting inanimate objects instead of enemies. The lack of the intent symbols over the enemies head makes the fights way less engaging to me for some reason.
That's honestly a really good reason
Runic Dome directly violates a very important game design rule: Never confuse "interesting" with "fun". Runic Dome is interesting sure, but absolutely isn't fun.
@@_APG_ It's an example of "if you understand the rules, you know when to break them".
ie, You always get 3 options for a boss relic - since you're never force to pick the Runic Dome they can put it in the game. The relic is still be fun for expert-players who memorized every attack pattern in the game & want to test their knowledge of the game.
You can still get Runic Dome as a starting relic from Neow - but again, you're no obligation to take the "risky" blessing.
@@n0xureI understand what they were thinking, but it still breaks the "don't confuse interesting with fun" game design rule. Catering a boss relic like that to the 0.1% of expert players is just a classic game design mistake. It's not going to be fun or useful to the other 99.9% of players. If they wanted something like that make it an optional challenge mode from the start.
Mx
I would take tiny house way more often if it allowed me to choose which card to upgrade. As is it almost always upgrades a strike or defend whenever I get it.
Well, usually players leave their Strikes and Defends in their deck rather than utilizing card removal at the merchants to get rid of them as they collect better Attack and Defends that cost the same.
I think it would be too powerful if you could choose which card to upgrade. Maybe instead, it should randomly select 4 unupgraded cards in your deck and you choose which of those 4 gets upgraded.
@@QuasiTronOfficial You'll never get rid of all your defends and strikes by Act 2 even if always remove cards at the merchant. The common cards you take in Act 1 are also bad targets for the upgrade.
@@exu7325 except with a p box start of course
@@jacobwansleeben3364nah it's not too powerful when we have these other tier A and S relics, which I'd still take over it most of the time
Ok, I finally had the S-tier Tiny House! It was so glorious that I took it over the Runic Pyramid(!). I was Ironclad, on a power/exhaust-heavy run. I had the Membership Card so the 50 gold was actually like 100. I had taken the Apparition event earlier, so the +5 HP was really +10. The random card upgrade rolled onto Disarm, nice. I also had a ? Card (and Singing Bowl), and incredibly the fourth card offered was an upgraded Rupture (my second copy, plus I also already had Brutality at this point). Plus the potion roll awarded me with a Flex Potion for good measure. Best Tiny House I've ever seen.
Vomit inducing comment
I never thought about wrist blade much but it actually has a lot of synergies. Eviscerate can benefit, all the 0 cost cards that already exist of course, good synergy with mummy hand, good synergy with madness, and all the synergies mentioned by ballord
Also good with Metamorphosis and Snecko Eye. I probably wouldn't pick it after a Snecko Eye pick, but I might pick Snecko Eye after, especially if I'm running Bullet Time or Wraith Form.
Just had a run with pen nib, wrist blade, the relic that gives you 3 strength on turn 1. The eviscerate benefited 3 times from all of these, which allowed be to breeze by all of act 2.
Went on to get tough bandages, and with two calculated gambles+ it was a comfortable heart fight
Feels like Sacred Bark is the one you consider for a second before picking something else. Really neat on paper and potentially good with Potion Belt or Alchemize, but... how about that energy relic?
I still take it someone’s on high ascension. The double effectiveness can be very useful
If I have White Beast Statue or Alchemize, I almost always take Sacred Bark. It's too strong with WBS.
it has 0 downside unlike a lot of other boss relics. mainly only takeable if the other relics are bad
Busted crown is fine imo, but only if your deck is basically already pretty strong. If anything, it is a win more relic as opposed to anything that will really help you.
Yes that is exactly what he said
Runic Done vs spaghetti best interaction, not being able to control the rerolls means guilt free damage. Might not be objectively good but it feels good.
oh yasss, screw the nerdy maths and probabilities its time to beat the mop to a pulp
I like the wound-y thingy a bit too much :D For ironclad I often go for the status card build
cursed mask status build is soo fun
I tried the astrolabe as a replacement starter relic on the silent. Got a footwork+ Noxious Fumes+ and a storm of steel plus. This is gonna be fun. Thank you! And for your vids too.
Alright I admit it, after beating an ascension run starting with snecko eye on defect, it is in fact OP af. I took 2 meteor strikes, an echo form, and a couple holograms so that when I drew a low cost meteor strike I would just cycle it with hologram over and over for tons of energy. Though not infinite, I dispatched the heart with ease, barely taking damage as I was fully blocking most of it. One of my easiest runs in recent memory
I like watcher’s and ironclad’s upgrade relics the most. The other 2 actually come with a meaningful downside and can just be flat out worse, while those two are strictly beneficial
😮😅😅 k no😊
The defects seems like a pretty good upgrade
the defect's one is also good but ye buff the card draw on the silent's relic
If Serpent Ring would have been "Every turn draw 2 cars but discard one"... would have been awsome 😔
it would be broken. Draw 2 and discard 2 is more like it. Also free discard synergy. Still seems to be too strong
@@Destrolll It's a fucking upgraded rune, you can't give an effect equal to an existing card, even a common one 😅
Healing 12 hp after combat isn't "broken"?
@@BioTheHuman I personally think black blood isn't broken at all. First of all, you gotta survive to get its benefit. That means you must be rather well-off already before taking it.
Second of, you can't get it by boss relic swapping. That means you usually throw energy relics for 6 extra heal per-combat, when you could've blocked that 6 damage by simply playing block+. Ironclad's cards are very damn expensive to boot.
Third of, it's the damn ironclad's speciality relic. That blockhead would either headslam his enemy and heal in-combat via reaper, or just block for 500 and take -6 damage via barricade × burning blood. And what does he struggle with? It's the damn energy all over again.
@@BioTheHuman healing 12hp after combat is brokent, that's why meat on the bone is good. Purple flame sucks. 6 is plenty in most cases, if your deck is any good that is, and if it isn't, then you die anyways.
the (Old) Hovering Kite was SOOOO bad, lol. Discard 2 cards every turn, gain +1 energy. It made your hand only 3 cards to play from on turn 2 onwards.
It sounds stupid good in a reflex build ngl
@@artvandelay5565 only if you’re drawing reflex every turn. And even then, you’re just breaking even on cards if it’s a reflex+ And old reflex drew one less card, too.
Wow that is horrible
@@artvandelay5565 It literally ONLY works if you have Unceasing Top, because guess what cards the Silent has? EVEN MORE Discard cards. Imagine trying to survive with Survivor in your hand, and even if you have top, pray to RNG you draw a usable card, less it be a curse or status; youre screwed.
I got snecko eye as a relic exchange in the beginning from Neow on ironclad. Queue rolling through the spire with an exaust deck with a ton of high-cost cards.
On Defect, inserter is 100% my favorite relic. I'd place it as an A or possibly S, as long as you don't swap into it, which I agree is a rough start.
The Watcher, LOVE both of her options but prefer the violet lotus.
On Iron Clad his specific ones literally just suck, with some niche powerful uses. Overall I'll almost never grab his relics. I have enjoyed black blood however, it's just usually not preferable to almost any choice for me.
With the Silent? GOD her relics are great. Kite and Wrist Blade more specifically tho her ring of the serpent is a wonderful act 2 boss pick, or it CAN be.
Also, I'd totally put frozen core in A, myself. The amount of runs it has just won for me is astounding. Or well, majorly helped. The impact it has is insane if you have any of the given requirements. Without them it's similar to just...having metallicize that gets a little stronger, always active. Not bad, not great. But hell, any buff to your focus and damn it's OP.
My favorite boss relic is probably Astrolabe. Swapping into it is a chaotic fun start and Act 1 it's usually a HUGE power boost even at 3 energy. It can still be great at the end of Act 2 but by then I prefer the calling bell, so it's not 100% Astrolabe for me because it does depend on when I'm grabbing it. But overall I definitely pick it up more than any relic
This isnt about favorites. This is about how good they are compared to the rest
It's nice to know the swap rankings, but you have no control over what you get, so ranking by other criteria (where you're picking a specific relic) is much more useful.
Well u could abandon runs till u get what you want if u were so inclined. Sounds like not much fun to me but...
@@nikwaggoner2480 you can't tho, because after abandoning run you get the bad Neow bonuses
I really like Dripper or Hammer whenever i have the Shovel or the Peace Pipe, because it gives me other ways to use the campfires.
I believe you underrate the impact of lotus. Its easily S
Lotus is easy to turn into what I call "engine". The way of your deck to draw and play its objectives/"scale"
Lotus does that immediately and easily. With cards like rushdown and empty mind. You can easily cycle your calms into draws. If you have a way to mass draw like with scrawl, lotus will translate to much more than 1 energy per turn. As it allows you to play an additional card drawing card which can draw you calm cards
I also believe you underrate sozu. Potions are invaluable resources, but the additional energy can help you circumvent alot of the situations you'd otherwise use a potion. If you play around having sozu its insanely good
You dont understand how tier lists work. Most boss relics are viable and good. But not all are as good as the others
Runic dome is extremely situational but it’s pretty good sometimes like when building a block deck on ironclad
I disagree, I think the more you play the game you kind of know what they are going to do, especially in high acesions
@@bronnony6520 what do you disagree with? The fact its situational, and that it is good in some situations?
I believe they mean the part about it being situational and such, and that it's onky good in some decks as truthfully like baalor said, Runic Dome's downside isn't actually as heavily impactful as other energy relic downsides as playing around it's downside relies entirely on your knowledge and good judgement rather than like with Cursed Key making you avoid chests and such, not saying that Cursed Key is bad, but Runic Dome's downside is only really a downside against something like the Writhing Mass as enemy attack patterns are very predictable and the enemies that do have chances to vary attack patterns like Gremlin Leader are still predictable to a point as for the Gremlin Leader for example, they areguaranteed to attack after their buff turn if both gremlins are still alivebut if one or two are dead they are more likely to summon more than attack, so people who are more experienced and have remembered enemy intents are able to take Runic Dome and work with it as if it's downside weren't evident at all against most enemies.
@@kirotakahashi7173 The problem with gremlin leader is he still has a chance to attack you even both gremlins are dead. So it's a relic which has downsides, even if you know all the enemy patterns or sit with wiki opened. Therefor first commenter is correct dome is good in the decks that have proactive attack/block plan. And way more limiting in ones that are more reactive. And worst of all Baalor mentioned that Time Eater is one of such enemies, Heart while mostly consistent also has RNG in attack patterns (big hit => x15 or x15 => big hit). So if you're A20 player who aims for heart and youri block plan can't be summarized as "i block naturally as a part of my gameplan" (stance dance, barricade clad, frost defect) it's really hard to justify dome pick for me because it has a downside of "you guessed wrong, take 30-60 damage to your face, friend".
I can't recall ever having won a run when I picked velvet choker. it really does CHOKE your capability and flexibility too much. too much luck involved in trying to build around it, let alone adding it late in a run.
I think it's really good but require building your deck very differently. And yeah you don't get to go for silly infinites but often you don't need to. It's especially strong in conjunction with snecko eye. A lot of 2 cost cards in the game are really solid but awkward without 4 energy and it fixes that and allow you to pick them up more freely. It's not the most fun relic cause a lot of very cool cards or combos just don't work with it but if you got a consistent deck of high value cards it does the job.
One thing is also that, a lot of the more out there thing are kinda overkill, you don't need to pop off that much to win a run, even vs the heart. Velvet choker usually gives you just enough that you win if you play correctly but it's never an overwhelming or impressive win so it doesn't *feel* strong, but it's genuinely solid.
Oooh just what I needed
I won my very 1st A20 Defect [non-heart] run with Snecko/Pyramid :D
Echo Form, big frost orbs and Charged Batteries helped out a lot
I won my first a20 two days ago. I hate snecko and never use it lol. But echo form, consume, capacitor, loop + helped me tremendously
Pyramid and snecko together sounds run killing lmao nearly guarantees hand clog
@@1TieDye1 just get lucky eZ
@@1TieDye1 seriously. You will have to rush hand "flushing" or mass discarding cards, and most of those exhaust upon use.
When I first started playing, i jusy kept taking the swap because it forced me to learn to deal with a sub-optimal build. I never took Dome before i got it as a swap, and I surprised myself with how well I knew the enemy patterns and realized i was treating intents as a crutch.
I feel like Runic Dome and Snecko Eye are *SUPER* player dependent. Like, for newer players, they both deserve D tier, because they are nearly guaranteed to sink your run if you're not at least working your way through higher Ascension levels. But for players who are at the point of climbing to higher Ascension levels, they can deserve that S rank, because such players have already developed the baseline skill and knowledge of the game to work around their disadvantages.
I'd tend to rate them both low, because players who know enough to use them properly don't need a tier list to tell them what's good and what's not.
You can say this about many, many cards and relics in the game. Your typical inexperienced Slay the Spire player who only recently unlocked all of the content is probably going to tell you Demon Form is good because it's infinite scaling, Wraith Form and Biased Cognition are bad because of the debuffs, Sozu is good because who needs potions, Grand Finale is bad because hand control doesn't exist, Flex is a good card because it's "Free Damage," Runic Pyramid kills you because of hand clog, the Watcher is hard to win with in general, etc etc.
A Slay the Spire tier list is best taken with a grain of salt anyway, but if you're going to rate stuff for fun it might as well be from the perspective of someone who only does A20 heart runs.
ngl after 2k hours of slay the spire (200 ish idle hours and about half the play time being either me achievment grinding or playing it in the background of a anime) I still struggle with using potions effectively. I think I still use them not enough but finding that balance is tricky especially in act 1 imo.
The busted crown makes decision making very easy and the merchant more fun. Just speaking on casual play. I've had a couple runs I was happy to get it from our good ole friend Whale.
It's interesting to see how different streamers rank relics. Most relics end up in similar spots, but there are some that people have more varied opinions. Wrist blade, sozu, burning blood, calling bell, runic cube are notorious examples.
Cool video! As a newbie (on ascension 6), I found your high ranking of pandora's box to be really interesting. I get the reasoning but I always find getting it as a relic trade or before stage 2 to be a mixed blessing, especially as a trade. My fastest losses have usually been from a Pandora's box trade as I'll get 2-3 cards I like, another 2-3 that have potential but little starting synergy, and the rest are junk or too expensive to rely on. I'll often find myself missing the humble, but consistent, 1 cost strikes and defends. I find it more consistent after the first boss, when I at least have some synergies going and some other consistent dmg/block dealers
Pandora's box is generally stronger the earlier you get it, because you're getting A) more cards out of it, and B) more time to draft around the transforms. A random card in your character's pool is almost guaranteed to be better than strike or defend, and getting them earlier in the run gives you more opportunities to lean into synergies or shore up new weaknesses.
Most really good players who win A20H runs consistently consider an "average" pbox swap (ie not accounting for any specific transforms) to be the single strongest thing you can get from Neow, and a highroll box is easily the strongest possible start to a run.
There are probably lowrolls that theoretically exist where you lose all of your damage cards and just can't kill Jaw Worm or Cultist on floor 1 before they scale out of control; but if you swap into pbox and lose, it's more likely that you made incorrect plays than that you got a box that was truly unwinnable.
@@elim9054 oh, I get the reasoning behind its strengths and totally agree I'm the reason those runs fail (on A6 and all that). Tbh I'm still learning a lot. I just think it's neat how the game has a relic that can seemingly change in value from a "trap relic" for newbies like me, to arguably being the best relic in the game for more experienced players. I think that's really cool design and I can only think of a couple other games that have something like that.
ehh . . . I have a difficult time with Pandora's Box if I'm being honest. There's been a handful of times where it's given me only one or no block in my deck and I'm gone within the next two hallway fights.
Play more, see that on average it gives u nuts. Most likely 4 or 5 defends were not enough anyways.
Bs take
I've always avoided pandoras box- probably stupid of me I just always got spooked by its randomness+ im usually a sucker for extra energy. I'll pick it my next few runs see if it helps.
Lmao that oversized chair made me chuckle
Thanks for the educational video!
Runic Dome is excellent if your deck does not care whatsoever what the enemy is doing like a Turtle build for Ironclad or a Frost build for Defect, for example. These decks simply aim to gain as much Block as possible, and they don't give a damn if the enemy is attacking or not. An infinite damage combo decks also don't care about the enemy intents, since they end the fight on turn 1 or turn 2.
many enemys also have set patterns, especially on A18+. So you learn them by time/ by looking up
@@MisterAssasine I haven't reached A18 yet, what happens there that makes enemies more predictable?
@@bobthebox2993 i think its just that at that point enemies stop gaining different "enemies/elites are deadlier" from ascension, or just the fact that by the time someone hits a18+ they prob have knowledge/experience to just know the attack patterns better
@@jjrulez1596 actually, at a17, 18, and 19 for normal fights, elites, and bosses, respectively, the patterns become much more predictable a lot of the time. An example of this is gremlin nob will always vulnerable - big attack - big attack repeat on a18+. I think that this is often because it guarantees the worst possible attack pattern, but it also allows for players to know what the enemy will do next turn / if they have a runic dome
Insterter getting C tier hurts, legit one of my favorite relics😭
I find it to be underwhelming. Cool with Consume and useful in boss fights, but it just doesn't impact the game as much as other boss relics.
It’s good but a little slow.
Most of the relics are extremely situational.
The crown for example can be as high as S Tier and as low as D Tier.
Sometimes a good deck is already developed within 4-5 card pick ups and 2-3 card removals, which can happen in act 1 already.
Picking up a crown then can be S Tier.
Other times you are missing key cards in your deck that you need to find quickly, thus making the crown not only bad, but detrimental.
Differences with my own opinions:
D: Ectoplasm (It’s probably my least favorite boss relic, especially since it guarantees a thieves fight next floor if you take it going to act 2[sarcasm]. I value card removes very highly.)
C: Sacred Bark (This may be due to me valuing potions low, using them too liberally, and/or being stuck with two slots, but I’ve never had a run where I felt like the line between a W/L was severed by bark)
Velvet Choker (look, man, I like to play cards. I will note I think this relic is way better if you start with it to build around it, but seeing it on the reward screen usually is unsatisfying for me, especially after act 2.)
Fusion Hammer (If I find a way around it, I like it, but other than that, I also value upgrades very highly, and them being turned off makes fires a lot less appealing to me, especially considering how many upgrades can be spent to basically become energy upgrades if I really need to pivot that way.)
B: Sozu (Again, maybe I just don’t value potions high enough, but imo you’re taking Sozu because you think your deck is strong enough to win without them, and with it, I feel like it does.)
Wrist Blade (hey, get down from S-tier, you’re gonna hurt yourself up there. It’s good if you find shivs, but if you don’t find shivs, I feel like it does next to nothing.)
Inserter (I think it’s better than any of the other ones in C tier, and I just like them. I also just liberally take Consume anyways, so that’s part of it.)
The way I see it, the tiers can be described like this:
“I’ll take this relic…”
S - “and win the run with this relic alone.”
A - “very happily in most cases.”
B - “and not feel bad about it most of the time.”
C - “because I had no other choice.”
D - “…why, exactly? There’s only two options in this tier, I’m taking the third one.”
One note about dome specifically is that only on Watcher, I actually think it’s C-tier, because it means I can no longer end my turn in wrath without risking a reset, which is, for me at least, usually a fine line between winning a fight and losing a fight where the enemy takes a turn off.
Also, if you’re for some reason playing prismatic defect, take battery as it now has almost no downside at all.
Do note I like your list, I just felt like sharing mine for the sake of discussion.
I get obliterated during Wrath enough as it is lol; runic dome would just delete any of my Watcher runs
The entire video all I can think about is how comfy your chair looks.
I got cracked crown as a boss swap a little while ago and then got offered nothing but 0 cost cards throughout the first act. I think I literally only got 1 card with any cost.
F
I’d love to see you do a tier list for each hero. For example, the downside of Collar is brutal on Watcher but on Ironclad I barely notice. The relative value of the energy relics in general differ a lot by hero. Ironclad tends to need energy the most due to his high-cost cards & lack of a good card-based solution to energy like Watcher (calm stance shifting, Deva form) & Defect (plasma).
Side note: are you trolling us by putting wrist blade in S tier? The others in S tier make sense but that 1 is so niche. If you’re going to rank them based on how good a relic could be in a deck that’s perfect for it, then Watcher’s Flower & Ironclad’s Mark should be higher, too.
My biggest difference of opinion on this list is with Ectoplasm, which I’d put in A. I tend to save my gold from Act1, so I’ll have at least 1 removal if needed. Also, I consider Runic Dome to be totally out of place in the game. It ruins the game for me, bc why put in all the effort then get Time Eater or the spaghetti hallway battle. Tbh I wish Megacrit would give us an option to omit it, or someone would code a mod to do that
Dome is definitely situational, but if you have a deck that blocks while doing damage each turn it is very op. The spaghetti monster fight is only bad if you get cursed, but the curse has no combat downside so it’s not too hard to play around. The worst fight for it is the nemesis because you have to block 40 every turn to be safe and the fight can go on so long. But definitely give dome a try when build around it you’ll see how powerful it can be.
I also think its interesting that you like ecto I always find it so hard to use because of the thieves in act 2 and no card removes are guaranteed without gold.
Good video. Surprised philosophers stone was only B tier.
I thought this would be a video about Neow's 4th option to trade your starting relic for a boss relic ... and then rank the boss relics by tier accordingly.
i know snecko eyes is good, but ive been screwed by it too often to like it. now i pretty much only pick it up if i already have a bunch of high cost cards that are more likely to benefit from the random cost.
also i feel like mark of pain is definitely better than C? i often pick up an evolve anyway even if im not playing a status deck, just to counteract enemy status effects and if you get it early you can easily build around it and make a very good status deck.
The wounds are still really bad and you still have to draw evolve before your wounds to actually mitigate them, which won't happen every fight. If you have a bottled evolve (or a bottled dark embrace with medkit) then mark of pain becomes incredible because it's just free energy, but that's a very uncommon situation.
Interesting Video even if i dont agree at all with you for some relics :)
I just beat the heart with Defect for the first time starting with nuclear battery building into melee, was only A3 but steamrolled the whole way. Super fun!
Funnily enough, I just had a run where I utilized the relics that gave curses.
The paradox is Silent gets the least out of the Sneko Eye, Silent doesn't get as much out of Runic Pyramid, but Silent can tolerate an accidental Pyramid + Sneko. Ironclad can discard and if you're putting wounds in or you have a curse, then Ironclad is better but for the most part Silent has so much discard it can get the Sneko high-costs to recycle extremely easily.
? Silent probably has the strongest runic pyramid out of all of the characters. I often take it even if I already have a well-laid plans because it's literally that good.
Today I beat the heart in A20 for the first time as silent thanks to pandora's box boss swap
Busted Crown is definitely A tier when picked late, it's just free energy at that point, but it obviously depends on the run
The problem is you can't pick it at the end of act 3, and the end of act 2 is usually not late enough.
End of act 2 you can definitely pick crown and not feel bad some runs where you truly just need energy to make your deck work with little improving it that you can still use shops for. The issue with ectoplasm though is it's only offered act 1 so it will cost you heavily, particularly if you have any wish or hand of greed like things going for you. If you have ? card it's a bit more pickable act 1 as 2 card rewards is still kind of solid.
I’ve completed A15 with all characters and have beaten the heart with three characters and I JUST realized how awesome Snecko Eye is. I used to avoid it because I thought the confusion made things too unpredictable, but that’s actually the benefit of the card. You can run into some insane combos.
I don’t even play without enemy intents. That’s way too much work.
Also, great video. I made my way here from Reddit. Enjoying your stuff.
I know its just because I suck (and yes I've had a couple A20 wins), but I've literally never had a Pandora's Box that didn't almost instantly get me killed. Last one for example, double juggernaut, double barricade, Clash......literally 0 block cards
Is it ever possible to get more than 3 boss relics in one run? Boss swap, act 1 boss, act 2 boss... those are the only ways to get them?
I hate rolling for boss relic at the start, it's always given me crown and I have to reset (crown is pretty much the one thing I'll reset on, even Sozu lets me build around and make a more consistent deck)
I think this is accurate. But as an Ironclad lover, I think Mark of pain is worth more. Curses are fuel for Ironclad
In most decks they aren't.
I think it can be acceptable if you have a draw-heavy deck (especially an Evolve) and need energy to round it out, but it's not an ideal way to get energy. Even if you do have Evolve you'll inevitably have fights where draw order screws you.
Philo Stone is a pretty bad end of Act 1 relics for one reason: Byrds.
Also, if Calling Bell gives you Du-Vu Doll, it’s like having a bonus Vajra. I have had this happen.
what chair (pillow?) is that, and where can i buy one?
It's a family hand-me-down and he doesn't know where to get another one. :(
He has confirmed that it is a dope ass chair.
I actually really like runic dome because I'm really good at remembering attacks but I'm so sad when I have it and have to face time eater
yeah, the meatball is another fight where this relic can heavily penalize you. I for one NEVER take this relic. Very surprised he rated it so highly, especially give the downside to streams that he even noted. he personally should have rated it D tier.
I've been playing StS for a little over a year and I've read the effect of frozen core wrong this whole time.
I thought it would only trigger if *all* of your orb slots were empty and I was like "why the fuck would anyone ever take this??"
It's still not much better than you thought.
@@szelitzkyerick7456 I love it if you have the right deck. I beat a20 with it the other day. Echo form, plus any focus ^ card can add so much defense with just that one extra frost orb you get. I was get 18 block per frost orb.
@@icebergthegamer tbh you could just have a couple cards that summon frost orbs
Snecko is the exact opposite of Pyramid (inconsistency vs. consistency)
I can not understand the appeal of snecko unless you can survive until you get an entire hand around it. Unfortunately it ruins tons of builds immediately.
Passively drawing through your deck and getting your key cards in play 40% faster is actually great for consistency, and the cost randomization is a huge asset for most of the strongest cards. Corruption and Meteor Strike are just two examples of cards that can literally make Snecko eye a good pick all on their own.
I agree. Hate Snecko Eye. Makes all of my cards cost 2 or more.
I like Snecko in a Corruption deck (as Corruption still puts skills to 0 cost), otherwise I don't pick it.
Snecko just says grab every win-con you see and hope you resolve a couple early. It goes hard with Genetic Algorithms, Ritual Daggers, any powers with big impact, Exhaust cards to play just one card over and over, unplayable discard cards and Gambles, Frost cards, almost any cards that can normally be played for two or more (ie. X and >2 cards), the list goes on. The question with Snecko you gotta ask is “Out of a random seven cards off the top, are you okay with on average playing a random three and in the worst case playing exactly one of your choice, with getting a chance at the best case of playing all seven?”.
I always die not long after getting snecko eye and having all my block cards cost 2 and 3 on high damage turns. It’s only good if you have a ton of 2+ cost carts in your deck.
Just lost a Watcher run to Snecko. Plenty of 2 cost cards, teo 3 cost, one 4 cost, so I thought "alright, if not now, then never". Turns out it randomizes cost of even 0 cost generated draws like insight, reach heaven etc, killing me after 3 atrocious luck fights back to back. Never it is, I guess.
I honestly find the fusion hammer much less useful than the coffee dripper, there are overall less opportunities for upgrades than healing with the most abundant sources of upgrading coming from act 1, by then you wont have your build even fully defined yet. I only see myself taking the hammer in situations where i have a bottled apotheosis, if im past act 2 with no need for upgrades or i have a minimalist deck.
Having an upgraded Armaments works very well or a Lesson Learned with Watcher. It all depends on the situation
Most players at the top level would agree with you. Bailor just wasn't ready to put coffee dripper in s tier, which I might actually disagree with.
Fusion hammer has enough work arounds that a-tier seems reasonable. A bunch of upgrades are energy upgrades, which fusion hammer essentially gives you by giving that extra energy, plus the fact that you've probably upgraded some of your good cards already, plus apotheosis or lesson learned.
Fun fact about calling bell, the 3 relics you get upfront are the same 3 relics you will be rewarded with in the run in your next 3 elite fights and or chest rooms were you not to take it. Its kind of cheaty but you can use it as intel by picking it after the boss fight to see what the upcoming rewards on the next floor will be, then save scum out and pick a different relic if you want but with the insight on what you can expect to build around coming up. Again its a little cheaty but of all the ways you can save scum around in the game that one seems kind of mild imo
I’d love to see Jorbs react to a D tier Sozu lol!
Tell him to check it out!
I don't think he likes this style of evaluating spire things. However it does seem he trends to agreeing that sozu is a lower value energy relic
Es como tener una poción de 1 de energía para cada combate, es top 1
Jorbs seems to almost never take sozu recently unless he's got his potions locked for act 4. Most energy cards got buffed.
Sozu was good back when most potions were shit. As more powerful potions were added, Sozu obviously became worse.
Clickbait, he did not put busted crown in S tier.
Watching this I realized that I need a big cozy chair
Mark of Pain is A/S tier when paired with fire breathing
Doesn't the Silent's upgrade only cost one card; not two? It still applies turn 1, so instead of two extra cards, you draw one. Which means you break even on turn 2 and come out ahead turn 3.
Turn 1 is the most important turn of every fight, getting those powers into play or spinning up that infinite relies on getting as many cards as possible.
@@moartems5076Whether that's true or not, my point is that the math was listed wrong. You get penalized 1 card on the first turn, not 2.
"Hovering Kite is a no downside energy relic..." The downside is the opportunity cost of the relic you aren't taking instead, which is especially true if you can't utilize it.
Pretty cool to see how this changes with playstyle, from what i've seen and heard from your other videos is that you tend to use a way bigger deck, with way more block than I do. Because of this a lot of the list is pretty flipped for me
you clearly need to make at least 2 tables. one for relics as boss swaps, and one where you get the relic later. maybe even a table where you rate relics that are dependent on other relics to really be good.
Coffee Dripper is the only one I'd wildly disagree with. Maybe I'm just bad at the game, but I consider the ability to Rest, particularly in the third act, to be essential.
The thing is, if you have to rest a bunch, you probably aren't beating A20 heart, which is what he's balancing this tier list around.
@@nathanharris8896 That's fair. I'm still struggling to beat A19 for the first time so I guess it's a relic not meant for me (yet).
Well one thing is that with the lack of meaningful downside coffee dripper leads to you *needing* to rest less. you'll take less damage in combat because of the energy and your deck will develop better. So if you end up needing to heal with coffee dripper odds are you'd have already lost that run with another relic.
the problem with this tier-list is that tiers are hardly applicable because all the relics are so situational
I really don't see how Electoplasm made it past the D ranking, especially as you cannot get it in act 2. If you start with it, you can basically say goodbye to your run on the spot, and it's also really bad to get in act 1. Being able to buy stuff is just too important.
I avoid snecko eye at all cost, it ruins my runs. I like cursed bell - 3 relics. Busted crown is good relic, especially when you have built your deck. And of course, everything else depends on achievement you want to get. I've got all achievements after 600+ hours of playing :)
For me, the hardest one was to beat the game under 20 min
All four characters have access to cards that are very strong with Snecko. Corruption+Snecko and Meteor Strike+Snecko are two of the strongest synergies in the entire game.
Busted Crown is just ass. Almost zero runs can expect to end act 1 or 2 in a position where no more cards are needed to kill Heart.
The first (and so far only) winning run I had with Defect was based around Fusion Battery, one Recursion to put it in front, then as many Loops as I could find to get So. Much. Energy.
A little cheat with runic dome, I always try to get spot weakness with it.
My favorite boss relic is astrolabe. That's over all. With silent it's wrist blade. Defect is inserter.
The eye makes it so difficult to plan a strategy...
Imagine boss swapping into panda's into no damage :x
that chair is huge
Tiny house is hot garbage to me honestly, as a boss relic. No downside is nice but it’s lack of any real benefit is too much of a downside. If the upgrade was targeted, it gave more money, or gave more max health I think it would be a competitive choice but I only take it if the others are useless or risk killing the run entirely
PSA - TLDW: “it depends”
sacred bark: If you got a source of artifact, the flex/speed pots are permanent, +10 str/dex is decent+
Runic dome is terriboe because enemies DON'T have consistent attack patterns. Tbere are too many enemies which randomly pick between several actions on a turn and there's too much energy wasted guessing that the extra one doesn't matter
Pandora Box of course!
Can someone tell me what a heart run is?
Kinda late but it's when you're planning to fight the heart, you'll know it once you kept playing
Philosopher stone I think is the only relic That I like to get as both swap and end of act 2 but not end of act 1. The bird fight, book of stabbing and gremlin leader just get wayyy too much value out of it so I'm rarely comfortable picking it for act 2, but if I get it as a swap I can plan around it a bit better
Also sozu at D rank sounds plain wrong tbh. Like yeah potions are good but the downside is basically nonexistent. Early on an energy relic is good enough that it makes potion not really needed. And having an energy relic with no concrete downside for your deckbuilding means you're much more likely to get an unstoppable deck later on. It's on par with coffee dripper in that it makes it's own downside obsolete by making it so you don't need the thing it takes away from you if you take it.
Though I feel like you're ranking this heavily focusing on the relic swap which is really weird considering that it's 1) not mandatory 2) you got no control over it. So it's a very narrow use case for boss relics and one where tier info isn't super useful.
Hi, What "S" stands for ? I can easily understand A, B, C... but "S" ?
Thank you
In the context of tiering/ranking things S literally just means "better than A." I'm not sure where it originated but it's pretty much a standard.
@@elim9054 Superior or Super would be the generally accepted source of 'S'
I'm guessing you've never played devil may cry...
Do you ever skip boss relics?
good question.
Note to self never take snecko eye and runic pyramid. You’re gonna have a bad time.
nice video but the text is too small for mobile, so for a newbie i get lost on what u talking about
If Tiny house was twice as effective would you ever take it?
I feel like people just say dome is good as some kind of flex to say they know all the monster patterns. I just can't see how the dome is legitimately good even if you DO know the patterns, because there IS still RNG when and how they choose to attack alot of the time. Even the heart, like the most predictable fight in the game, randomly chooses its big smack attack that you can buffer or whatever, or its 12 hit one where buffer would be useless, and instead you'd want to use piercing wail or something.
plus, it's quite bad for streamers, as viewers WANT to be able to see how experts react when given a specific circumstance, and dome shows you... nothing. I found it rather odd he rated it so high, even while he noted this extreme downside for his streams. weird dissonance there.
Dome is really good not only on deterministic fights. But it forces a certain playstyle
It basically forces you into maximizing your defensive objerctive. You can't defend for exact amounts and invest the rest of the energy into damage. Instead you have yo make sure you cover worst case scenario every time. Play all the cards you can
That means you want to build around decks that want to get off everything they need. Like the ironclad turtle and the defect frost decks
It also means it anti synergistic with relics that depends on you limiting your play. Ice cream, stop watch, all those are bad with dome. Velvet chocker especially is a run killer
But relics that allow you to play as many cards as possible, like snecko, nunchaku, ink bottle. Are all great with dome
Call me crazy, but I really, *really* don't like snecko eye. It just seems to way more often fuck me over than not, but thats always my luck with games. The more luck based it is, the worse I will, inevitably, do with it.
sacred bark two tiers higher than inserter? cursed key only c tier? idk chief, seems kinda whack to me
i feel you were way too harsh on the busted crown.. its rly amazing to take after act 2 when u already have the cards you need or even missing a few cause you can just visit shops to get the last cards you need and you might even get them from the single card reward.. so i feel busted crown should be atleast a C tier or even B
Most of the time in higher ascension you won't have most of the cards you need since you need to draft very agressively for act 1 and 2, and then you have to start drafting to scale and block in act 3 and 4'
Here's the thing, if you don't need any more cards, then you probably don't need the energy either. It's pretty rare to have all the cards you need but really need one more energy. Not impossible, but niche, which is why it is rated d tier.
Idk what my favorite relic is but my least favorite is Runic Dome
Snecko eye has let me down more often than not. I don't take it
From S to D. I did *not* hear the letter S being said, lul.