Roger is not quite what I picture when I hear the term “intermediate skier”. While his mechanics need some work, he certainly seems way farther along than “intermediate” based on most skier ability classification schemes. Not bad for a mostly dedicated snowboarder!
I'm really appreciating the side by side comparisons of the 2 skiers. I'm just kicking myself for not getting coached up much sooner in life. Learning so much in the off-season now, can't wait to see how the mind & body put it all together on the slopes next winter. Thanks for keeping my mind engaged!
Got my carv a few years ago. They are amazing and for the price of a lesson I have learned so much more and can now feel when I make a better turn and why.
After many (mmmmany) videos i finally understand what is exactly what they are talking about!! The lines that they draw in the video helps a lot Thanks!!!
Jens and Josh, love your videos! This one is particularly good. My wife and I spend our winters at Kicking Horse in Canada. We ski mostly bumps and off piste but this video upped our game on and gave us a new appreciation for the groomers . The skills taught in the video and tuned on the groomers translated to better control and more fun on both bumps and broken powder. If you're ever in Canada give Kicking Horse a try.
Nice video stomp it! Good to see you still ripping Josh! You have always been a great coach and instructor! The best part is your super talented in all aspects of skiing (carving, park and big mountain skiing) that combined with an in-depth understanding of the sport and a cool attitude makes you an excellent instructor/coach!
Great video. I started skiing (carving) again after 30 years snowboarding and my friends who are beginner skiiers were really impressed how well I can carve. It feels that I can ski better now than before. I think being able to carve with a snowboard makes you lean in on those c curves naturally… It feels like my bottom ski is the snowboard and the top leg is just assisting. Anyway it is a lot more fun that I thought it was. Might be skiing more in the future! 🤙🏻
Pressure on outside ski also makes sense because that leg is more extended (easier to apply force) and has a larger turning radius (also easier to apply force). Thus it's much easier to hold your carve along that contact point primarily.
I got the CARV system last season and it has helped me develop and improve my carved turns massively. My stats for edge similarity and outside ski pressure are great but I still haven't decoded the dynamics of fore-aft balance and haven't been able to improve in this area at all.
@@Hello_there_obi not really. CARV examines the dynamic shift of weight during each phase of the turn, ideally further forward at the start of the turn and moving back through the end of the turn. Backseat is more of a static problem and perhaps too simplistic a description in this analysis.
That last drill, lifting the inside ski, produced the angulation he needed to increase pressure on the outside ski. Interesting how the body maintains balance when the inside ski is off the snow.
Yesterday was my first day on skies after 20 years(!!) of not skiing. Thanks to your beginner advices i managed to keep myself healthy and happy. But, after watching this video, one question comes to my mind: If i put a pressure on a ski with proper edge angle, it turns. I understand. So, if i put more pressure on lower ski, won't it turn harder than upper ski, what will result in crossing them?
Fantastic video. It would be cool to really break down Josh's skiing and it'd be cool to get josh on board with it. I'm a staff trainer in Tahoe so I'd enjoy some collaboration.
Great suggestion! I might do something like that. Next ski technique video will also be with josh coaching me on my short turns. I think you might like that one :)
Another great video from you and from Josph, many thanks and very well done. Once quesiton I have please: When carving and the doing the usual turns, is your body supposed to be facing down-hill OR it should point in the same direction where the skis are pointing? I am seeing both by watching pro skiers like yourselves. Appciate your help here.
@@darkoampem Level 4 instructor is the highest. At that point the stats would probably improve based on the skier's intent. Any actual improvements at that level of ability takes weeks if not months
The best use is to figure out what skis are for you, and how they react different with keeping same edge angle or preferred edge angle for skiers age and ability
I track my sports with a Garmin, I track my sleep with an Oura ring, my weight with a Nokia Scale. Now I spent a couple of days tracking my skiing with the Carv. I think the app and how it works is brilliant and very well made. It for sure can develop the average skier and advanced too. Best is probably to combine it with a coach / instructor.
Drive it with your knee, push that outside knee towards the tip of the inside ski, roll the ski on it's edge, and push it as hard as the snow will hold you. Once the carve starts to pull you across the fall line use the edge of the inside ski to hold the line tighter.
Instead of focussing on isolated movements of the knees i feel people (instructors) should focus more on chains of movement. Instead of Pushing releasing the knee outward.
I think terms are getting creeped a bit. Below is how I define the levels of skiing: (sub 1) little ones: Junior slopes for little ones! 1) Beginning: Falls a lot, no edge turns. backseat always. cannot check stop. cannot ski uphill. should not go in trees or bumps or back country. 2) Intermediate: Doesn't really fall. Skis blues. Occasionally engages edges. Side slips mostly and can check stop (usually). Should not go on bumps or back country. Limited trees are ok once they can use train track pressure turns. 3) Advanced: Able to engage edge angles to create turns in perfect conditions. Can link turns under easy conditions. Does not "chart a course" beyond one turn (the next one). Cannot ski uphill. jumps, probably not safely. ok to go in trees, on bumps, but not back country. 4) Expert: Able to engage edge angle to combat a variety of conditions. Expert knowledge of standard groomed and ungroomed (but managed) conditions. Can ski forwards and backwards, uphill, downhill and perform jumps in controlled conditions (usually the park). Back country is a happy fun place. Links turns in challenging conditions requiring pre-set set of actions over significant time. 5) billy goat: Understands how to optimize ski engagement in all conditions, especially variable changing conditions. Can seemlessly transition from planned directions to new linked turns on short notice while maintaining stability in greater than 50 degree slopes. If you get tripped up when you skis move from powder to ice to variable snowpack, you ain't there yet. These folks tend to turn ski turning into a science. Probably lives in the back country. Rarely seen by cameras. Answers phone call with "who dis? candide?"
Hey man I have huge issues with pivoting my body in jumps and especially even a 90* on a box. I get to 45* before I feel max-twisted and I snap back straight. Any advice?
Hmm, I always thought the problem is the opposite - how to maintain pressure on the inside ski? Outside is fully loaded, no problem there, but the inside one is slacking
The problem might be 'sitting on ur back'. Try loading the front of the skis during the whole turn cycle. It will organically give you more freedom to change the l-r balance loading pattern.
Watching this video I must admit I was a bit surprised about Josh, Level 4, leaving his outer pole a tad behind (min 2:24) and out of his peripheral vision, which could lead to an under rotated upper torso and thus produce a lag for his next turn preparation. Yet, he demonstrates a good sight-on-pre-turn anticipation and strong upper/lower body separation. (But unfortunately all this no boot technology will be able to spot for sure)
02:30 Headtilt is also a big difference causing less edge angle because it affects the balance. Keep your eyes level to the slope. You wouldn’t Tilt your head inside in other sports. Easy way to feel the difference affecting how your hips react is to stand next to a wall facing along the wall. Let yourself fall against the wall with one hand as support. Once you tilt your Head towards the wall once you keep it level and you will feel a huge difference...
If you put all weight on your outer ski, and none on your inner ski, why do you need edge similarity? Is your inner ski going to do anything? Or is just for the transition?
It depends on what you want your outcome to be. Obviously there are many different ways and methodologies on how to carve. Most ski systems do emphasize having most of your weight, if not all, on the outside ski. This becomes much more important at higher speeds after the apex (point where ski's face down the fall line) where the centripetal forces start to increase significantly. Play with it for yourself and see what suits you best. Note that you can perfectly be in balance whilst being completely balanced over your outside leg (thus having all pressure on your outside ski). This however, will require you to be in an angulated position. You need to do this in order to prevent yourself from falling into the turn, have your ski slipping away or skidding the turn. Note that, in my opinion, one of the best free skiers in the world (Reilly McGlashan, Paul Lorenz, Takao Murayama etc.) have pretty much all their weight on the outside ski after the apex. Experiment and have fun!
Why is the "expert" ski instructor is not using the poles at all? His outside shoulder is always rotated outwards because of his position of the arm, it looks like his whole upper torso goes into a bit of couter rotation at each turn... I mean look at the still frame of the expert skier at min 2:25 and tell me he is not going in rotation with the torso. This is because he is not using poles and the right arm is not forward - ready to stick that pole into the ground for the next right turn.
@@marleysan2748 I'm an old ski dog, & have closely observed the evolution of ski technique over the last 40 or so years. I wouldn't say the position the skier is in is "wrong". I would agree with you that it may not be optimum, and is a poor choice to illustrate carving technique. But skiing is not about positions or posing. Skiing is about coordinated movement. One still frame does not make a movie. Counter rotation is a proven and legit old school ski technique, and it feels good. Most of the time I ski very square to the fall line, elbows slightly ahead of my hips. But sometimes I throw in some old school counter rotation a la Stein Eriksen just for fun. The torque of counter rotation actually applies added pressure to the outside ski, which is usually a good thing. Try it. It's fun. But whether you're square or counter rotated, if your mass isn't dynamically centered on your skis, you're not gonna flow, it's not gonna feel right. Olympic Giant Slalom Gold Medalist Deb Armstrong has a series of videos. She knows a thing or two about carving. The video below is below is right on point. The Myth of Arms Forward - Deb Armstrong th-cam.com/video/FDPzhx1VbLc/w-d-xo.html Turn & Burn....
I use to be into skiing. Really good information on edging. Especially about outside pressure. I wish they touched upon more, the importance of edging in powder, so important. Love the app, enticing me to to get back into skiing. Great video
Why does he blatantly ignore the fact they got almost the same ski similarity score and goes on to say the one guy's skis are so different and blah blah blah, the other guy's are perfect... Lol What's the point of fancy measurement gadgets if you completely ignore the results?
Join one of our Ski technique or Freestyle camps here: stompittutorials.com/camps/
Roger is not quite what I picture when I hear the term “intermediate skier”. While his mechanics need some work, he certainly seems way farther along than “intermediate” based on most skier ability classification schemes. Not bad for a mostly dedicated snowboarder!
Personally, I'd consider anything less than Roger more of the "beginner" level. But given he's mainly snowboarding, he has a good sense for skiing.
Yeah. I feel like when people say "intermediate", they mean a person who can connect parallel turns on blues.
I'm really appreciating the side by side comparisons of the 2 skiers. I'm just kicking myself for not getting coached up much sooner in life. Learning so much in the off-season now, can't wait to see how the mind & body put it all together on the slopes next winter. Thanks for keeping my mind engaged!
0:24 Why, amazing background view. Absolutely stunning.
A lot of Europe's resorts will have this kind of scenery.
Got my carv a few years ago. They are amazing and for the price of a lesson I have learned so much more and can now feel when I make a better turn and why.
I finally went skiing this season yesterday and it was so fun
It's kinda cute how Jens thinks at 6:39 that Josh is falling
That app looks so good! I usually ski alone so it's difficult to improve and get feedback
Same here .... how much are they ?
300 🥲
Come to switzerland there are instructors
who knew a CARVING video could be so interesting.
This has done a way better job to convince to buy carve then the million ads it keeps showing me.
After many (mmmmany) videos i finally understand what is exactly what they are talking about!! The lines that they draw in the video helps a lot
Thanks!!!
I really appreciate your school, your videos are very useful. Thank you very much.
Jens and Josh, love your videos! This one is particularly good. My wife and I spend our winters at Kicking Horse in Canada. We ski mostly bumps and off piste but this video upped our game on and gave us a new appreciation for the groomers . The skills taught in the video and tuned on the groomers translated to better control and more fun on both bumps and broken powder. If you're ever in Canada give Kicking Horse a try.
Nice video stomp it! Good to see you still ripping Josh! You have always been a great coach and instructor! The best part is your super talented in all aspects of skiing (carving, park and big mountain skiing) that combined with an in-depth understanding of the sport and a cool attitude makes you an excellent instructor/coach!
Couldn't agree more!
I love your videos, always. I bought a Carv because of your video. Today I had the first run with Carv, and got improvement! Amazing
Great video. I started skiing (carving) again after 30 years snowboarding and my friends who are beginner skiiers were really impressed how well I can carve. It feels that I can ski better now than before. I think being able to carve with a snowboard makes you lean in on those c curves naturally… It feels like my bottom ski is the snowboard and the top leg is just assisting. Anyway it is a lot more fun that I thought it was. Might be skiing more in the future! 🤙🏻
Thanks for the video Jens.
You make the best skiing videos on TH-cam.
Yes to carving videos! Well done Jens
You sound like the guy from unisport talking about football boots. Two great guys
Love your videos, consider myself an advanced skiier, but always take great tips from your videos to improve
That last run was impressive 👍🏽
Pressure on outside ski also makes sense because that leg is more extended (easier to apply force) and has a larger turning radius (also easier to apply force). Thus it's much easier to hold your carve along that contact point primarily.
Also the whole point of a turn is putting pressure on your outside ski. I've always learned to put atleast 70% of your weight on your outside ski.
I got the CARV system last season and it has helped me develop and improve my carved turns massively. My stats for edge similarity and outside ski pressure are great but I still haven't decoded the dynamics of fore-aft balance and haven't been able to improve in this area at all.
Does that mean you are too backseated still?
@@Hello_there_obi not really. CARV examines the dynamic shift of weight during each phase of the turn, ideally further forward at the start of the turn and moving back through the end of the turn. Backseat is more of a static problem and perhaps too simplistic a description in this analysis.
@@OrdinaryWorld perhaps you need to maintain shin pressure on the boot and the ball of your foot?
Thanks for your valuable insights and tips. Love the CARV app!
You are so welcome!
2:18, what you all came for
nice
Nice
Nice
Thanks bruh
Nice
Great video. This really really helped.
That last drill, lifting the inside ski, produced the angulation he needed to increase pressure on the outside ski. Interesting how the body maintains balance when the inside ski is off the snow.
Carv is such a sick training device! I think it works best with instructors in tandem. Shame it’s still so expensive!
Yesterday was my first day on skies after 20 years(!!) of not skiing. Thanks to your beginner advices i managed to keep myself healthy and happy. But, after watching this video, one question comes to my mind:
If i put a pressure on a ski with proper edge angle, it turns. I understand. So, if i put more pressure on lower ski, won't it turn harder than upper ski, what will result in crossing them?
Fantastic video. It would be cool to really break down Josh's skiing and it'd be cool to get josh on board with it. I'm a staff trainer in Tahoe so I'd enjoy some collaboration.
Great suggestion! I might do something like that. Next ski technique video will also be with josh coaching me on my short turns. I think you might like that one :)
Thank you for the detailed explanation!
This video is awesome!! Thanks guys
Supper cool video!!! Thank you guys!!!
I love your vids man the season just started in Canada and you have taught me so much
Thank you so much, I wish you a great season start! /Jens
Great instructions. Love the comparison approach. Keep up good work guys !
Just found you... this is very helpful... I’m thinking of doing the spready 😉
Excellent tutorial! Can't wait to try to get even pressure on both skis the next time I am on the slopes. Dreaming of skiing on single leg 'someday'.;
Good one!
Great Video... Thank you so much!
Really good video.👍🇺🇸
Still on ski lockdown over here in France.... what agony!!! At least I am getting some randonnée ski done.
just hoping to get on snow this season . . . will be good to have this in mind as a refresher bet I'm gonna be rusty
Another great video from you and from Josph, many thanks and very well done. Once quesiton I have please: When carving and the doing the usual turns, is your body supposed to be facing down-hill OR it should point in the same direction where the skis are pointing? I am seeing both by watching pro skiers like yourselves. Appciate your help here.
The general rule of thumb is to always have your upper body face downhill but when pros do insane sharp turns sometimes you just can’t do that.
Brilliant
A bit of hip flex ( anterior flex)would help him a lot, as it would allow for a better hip angulation as well.
Having Volkl Definately helps
Awesome!! Do u have any tips on fitness exercises you like to use to be ready for the season?
I will do that but not this winter. Maybe next autumn :)
Brilliant video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
imagine if the carving edge simulator came standard with every pair of ski boots.
Did the carv improve the expert skiers stats as well?
@@darkoampem Level 4 instructor is the highest. At that point the stats would probably improve based on the skier's intent. Any actual improvements at that level of ability takes weeks if not months
@@samyeoski that's why it would be nice to see some data on it
people would have one more reason to stare at their phone instead of taking in the moment and interacting with other skiiers
The best use is to figure out what skis are for you, and how they react different with keeping same edge angle or preferred edge angle for skiers age and ability
Rly appreciates ur vids!! Keep it up! Yaay
Glad you like them!
the best part of the video is right here 2:18
Very helpful 👌 thanks
great video
Jens what's you honest opinion about CARV?
I track my sports with a Garmin, I track my sleep with an Oura ring, my weight with a Nokia Scale. Now I spent a couple of days tracking my skiing with the Carv. I think the app and how it works is brilliant and very well made. It for sure can develop the average skier and advanced too. Best is probably to combine it with a coach / instructor.
@@StompItTutorials thanks for the answer :)
Great video. What jacket and pants are you wearing.
Good lesson Thank you
Glad you liked it!
-69 here
-nice
:D
69 likes too. had to stop myself from liking
2:19 sixty nine. Nice
Is there any other similar apps or equipment to compare to?
Can you make a tutorial on how to detune your skis?
What is the app you folks are using?
How to record the ski angle stat?
What's the name of the app for the angle...
It is boots insoles with all kinds of sensors and conncet to you phone via bluthooth.
CARV
Invitation Accepted! I want to ski with you all SO BADLY! And give you all big fists-bumps and hugs! Thanks for everything!
Drive it with your knee, push that outside knee towards the tip of the inside ski, roll the ski on it's edge, and push it as hard as the snow will hold you. Once the carve starts to pull you across the fall line use the edge of the inside ski to hold the line tighter.
Instead of focussing on isolated movements of the knees i feel people (instructors) should focus more on chains of movement. Instead of Pushing releasing the knee outward.
@@BarnixMoor by pushing in this case I mean to load the flex of the ski.
1:19. What is that black dot in the back
a helicopter
Oh yeah, it is a helicopter didn't think of that
Where is this piste?
I think terms are getting creeped a bit. Below is how I define the levels of skiing:
(sub 1) little ones: Junior slopes for little ones!
1) Beginning: Falls a lot, no edge turns. backseat always. cannot check stop. cannot ski uphill. should not go in trees or bumps or back country.
2) Intermediate: Doesn't really fall. Skis blues. Occasionally engages edges. Side slips mostly and can check stop (usually). Should not go on bumps or back country. Limited trees are ok once they can use train track pressure turns.
3) Advanced: Able to engage edge angles to create turns in perfect conditions. Can link turns under easy conditions. Does not "chart a course" beyond one turn (the next one). Cannot ski uphill. jumps, probably not safely. ok to go in trees, on bumps, but not back country.
4) Expert: Able to engage edge angle to combat a variety of conditions. Expert knowledge of standard groomed and ungroomed (but managed) conditions. Can ski forwards and backwards, uphill, downhill and perform jumps in controlled conditions (usually the park). Back country is a happy fun place. Links turns in challenging conditions requiring pre-set set of actions over significant time.
5) billy goat: Understands how to optimize ski engagement in all conditions, especially variable changing conditions. Can seemlessly transition from planned directions to new linked turns on short notice while maintaining stability in greater than 50 degree slopes. If you get tripped up when you skis move from powder to ice to variable snowpack, you ain't there yet. These folks tend to turn ski turning into a science. Probably lives in the back country. Rarely seen by cameras. Answers phone call with "who dis? candide?"
Be careful when approaching the "billy goat" as they may chose to chew on your skis for a bit before sidling off for better grazing slopes.
Hey man I have huge issues with pivoting my body in jumps and especially even a 90* on a box. I get to 45* before I feel max-twisted and I snap back straight. Any advice?
Turn your shoulders before you leave the ground the rest of your body will soon follow
Brill 👍🏻
Can anyone help me figure out what Line Miner goggle size are the guys wearing?
I got 69°. *nice*
What’s the name of the app you guys are using?
Carv (getcarv.com)
“69. Nice”
Hmm, I always thought the problem is the opposite - how to maintain pressure on the inside ski? Outside is fully loaded, no problem there, but the inside one is slacking
The problem might be 'sitting on ur back'. Try loading the front of the skis during the whole turn cycle. It will organically give you more freedom to change the l-r balance loading pattern.
I have a question: what’s the name oft the app what you are using at beginning?
That is the carv app, the data from the carv insoles is fed back to your phone
@@samyeoski thanks
3:12 I believe the skis should be synchronized throughout the turns. Inside ski isn't supposed to be in the front.
No, inside ski should definitely be in front of the outside ski in order to keep proper positioning and avoid locking out your hips.
@@nicholaspedersen9061 yep
Another way to seperate: The hands.
The people who drop their hands down.
Watching this video I must admit I was a bit surprised about Josh, Level 4, leaving his outer pole a tad behind (min 2:24) and out of his peripheral vision, which could lead to an under rotated upper torso and thus produce a lag for his next turn preparation. Yet, he demonstrates a good sight-on-pre-turn anticipation and strong upper/lower body separation. (But unfortunately all this no boot technology will be able to spot for sure)
Does the app have a metric for skiing enjoyment?
I don't think so... But carving is so satisfying
02:30 Headtilt is also a big difference causing less edge angle because it affects the balance. Keep your eyes level to the slope. You wouldn’t Tilt your head inside in other sports. Easy way to feel the difference affecting how your hips react is to stand next to a wall facing along the wall. Let yourself fall against the wall with one hand as support. Once you tilt your Head towards the wall once you keep it level and you will feel a huge difference...
Hello sir
Good morning Jack!
Is level 4 the same as staatlich skilehrer?
Yes.
wow
If you put all weight on your outer ski, and none on your inner ski, why do you need edge similarity? Is your inner ski going to do anything? Or is just for the transition?
You don put all the weight on the outside ski just a fair bit more. You still need the inside ski for balance.
It depends on what you want your outcome to be. Obviously there are many different ways and methodologies on how to carve.
Most ski systems do emphasize having most of your weight, if not all, on the outside ski.
This becomes much more important at higher speeds after the apex (point where ski's face down the fall line) where the centripetal forces start to increase significantly.
Play with it for yourself and see what suits you best. Note that you can perfectly be in balance whilst being completely balanced over your outside leg (thus having all pressure on your outside ski).
This however, will require you to be in an angulated position. You need to do this in order to prevent yourself from falling into the turn, have your ski slipping away or skidding the turn.
Note that, in my opinion, one of the best free skiers in the world (Reilly McGlashan, Paul Lorenz, Takao Murayama etc.) have pretty much all their weight on the outside ski after the apex.
Experiment and have fun!
@@mitchel3392 Thanks for the in-depth response! I'll take this with me the next time I'm on the slopes
Less carve promos would be nice as the price for the casual skier is prohibitive now you have to subscribe.
Do you detune underfoot??
My park skis yes. The skis I used in this video, hell no :) These skis we are on are all very sharp.
I wish I can at least ski like Roger.
Soon David! :)
wtf! how does he use these boots with these bindings? 5:56
Help me, please!
Pump you up!!!😂
Josh seems to be on easier piste
Stop waiting our TH-cam time.
Why is the "expert" ski instructor is not using the poles at all? His outside shoulder is always rotated outwards because of his position of the arm, it looks like his whole upper torso goes into a bit of couter rotation at each turn... I mean look at the still frame of the expert skier at min 2:25 and tell me he is not going in rotation with the torso. This is because he is not using poles and the right arm is not forward - ready to stick that pole into the ground for the next right turn.
Because he’s carving ?
@@kaedendelong9212thanks, I know he is carving but still the position is clearly wrong
@@marleysan2748 I'm an old ski dog, & have closely observed the evolution of ski technique over the last 40 or so years. I wouldn't say the position the skier is in is "wrong". I would agree with you that it may not be optimum, and is a poor choice to illustrate carving technique. But skiing is not about positions or posing. Skiing is about coordinated movement. One still frame does not make a movie.
Counter rotation is a proven and legit old school ski technique, and it feels good. Most of the time I ski very square to the fall line, elbows slightly ahead of my hips. But sometimes I throw in some old school counter rotation a la Stein Eriksen just for fun. The torque of counter rotation actually applies added pressure to the outside ski, which is usually a good thing. Try it. It's fun.
But whether you're square or counter rotated, if your mass isn't dynamically centered on your skis, you're not gonna flow, it's not gonna feel right.
Olympic Giant Slalom Gold Medalist Deb Armstrong has a series of videos. She knows a thing or two about carving.
The video below is below is right on point.
The Myth of Arms Forward - Deb Armstrong
th-cam.com/video/FDPzhx1VbLc/w-d-xo.html
Turn & Burn....
2:20
First? Cool
i think you dropped an E haha
Thank you! Im grateful for that. I got confused by using Carv the digital device. Have a great day!
@@StompItTutorials cheers friend
Roger may be an “intermediate”, but he’s athletic
I use to be into skiing. Really good information on edging. Especially about outside pressure. I wish they touched upon more, the importance of edging in powder, so important. Love the app, enticing me to to get back into skiing. Great video
Why does he blatantly ignore the fact they got almost the same ski similarity score and goes on to say the one guy's skis are so different and blah blah blah, the other guy's are perfect... Lol
What's the point of fancy measurement gadgets if you completely ignore the results?
Third let’s go
V
Cf