Atheist Experience 20.33 with Matt Dillahunty and Jen Peeples
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- 26:10 Chan: Shreveport, LA: Free Will, Evidence for Existence of God, Miracles
1:02:27 Drake: New Orleans, LA: How to Explain People Falling Down with Holy Spirit
1:12:20 Zack: Visalia, CA: Catholic Church as Criminal, Reformation of Church
1:19:35 Mark: Toronto, ON: Near Death Experiences
1:27:50 Dennis: Cleveland, OH: Socialization of Atheism, Community
The Atheist Experience episode 20.33 for August 21, 2016, with Matt Dillahunty and Jen Peeples. Was Joseph Smith a Con Man?. Jen describes some viewer mail where the claims go off the rails.
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Drake (1:10 in) asked where else do people fall to ground, filled with
the holy spirits?
We call it a bar.
Different kind of spirits.
@@The.Intruder no wayyyy
Yes buy I call it BULLSHIT
A witty response indeed.
All logical arguments for the existence of a god boil down to the exact same thing: "the god I'm trying to prove must exist, otherwise this argument won't work."
"...otherwise I'm a fool" I think is more accurate
I am just so amazed that after the industrial revolution, after The Great War, WWII, etc. That religion is still around. It's a dead topic. Shows like this need to be a required HS class.
The Jawbone of an Ass They’ll probably always be a handful of people that are religious. I do think eventually there will be a time when most people will regard religion as ridiculous and part of the past. There’s already plenty of countries that are generally more non religious. Religion is losing its hold on people. It’s only a matter of time.
I would have thought that the dinosaur fossil record would have been enough to discredit religion but no they just made up some new crap
We need to take it upon ourselves and eliminate religion... or the religious, before the pendulum completes its swing back to sectarianism. They'll kill all of us if they can. I say we should NEVER let that happen.
@@racebannon5523 and they drive vehicles powered by fossil fuels and say the earth is 6,000 years old. Make it make sense.
CHAN;
"No single argument by it's self proves God".
"However if you take them all and add them up you get to God".
A mountain of zeros added up still equals zero.
I've watched a lot of this show and "It's not just one thing" is the MOST common response to "why do you believe", especially after the first 1 or 2 reasons are destroyed. It's a self-defense mechanism, because it allows you to think that you're rational but just can't retell or remember everything that convinced you.
@@ChannelMath Indeed.
They also love to throw out the _"mysterious ways"_ response, as their ultimate "get out of logic" free card.
If the Soul is immaterial and can't be detected, then HOW DO YOU KNOW IT'S IMMATERIAL AND CAN'T BE DETECTED?! That is like saying, "It can't be explained, but here is the explanation."
There is no soul.
Change soul to god/deity and refutes deity.
The burden of proof is on you to prove a soul exists
This program has, over the several years of watching, shown how people have made a simple Bronze Age story so complex and have inserted so many modern vague interpretation as to its meanings. As my father used to say, " you never spoil a good story for the want of a bit of truth." Thanks for the show, this has greatly refined my arguments against any religion.
Not Such A Fun fact: There are a minimum of 36,000 Christian denominations with each one making an emphatic claim to have the Holy Spirit.
Drake always calls in reading from a prepared script.
I love how chan decides to finish the call as if it's his idea after matt just finished.
What makes me mad is that the same caller will call later to the show and say he just found out about the show then says he's not a christian or even cares about god. Lying theists
So Chan's homework assignment is to go find a pastor who's had his head chopped off, buried, then has come back to life the next week. And it's gotta be well-documented.
Good luck on that!
Someone should show Drake footage of people collapsing at Michael Jackson concerts, and ask him if he thinks that means Michael Jackson was God.
The Beatles
@@JDMunoz-ct9xn Well, I was going for someone who actually made good music. But if you want to go with the Beatles, that's fine.
@@bagofchipx Legendary in an era where music was garbage. I'm not surprised.
@seraphinaaizen6278
What!? Aye right!
CSNY, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones etc etc were all shite? Ok.
@@jonstrummer6930Pink Floyd is the greatest band of all time
Matt to Drake - “What kind of dick does this god have to be....”. Hilarious Matt. You are the best.
Chan has to be one of the least offensive theist callers. He mostly argues honestly, non-defensively, and with a reasonably open mind to reasoned arguments. But my favorite aspect of his calls is that he is willing, from time to time, to admit that he doesn't know the answer to certain questions. The conclusions he does come to are wrong, from my point of view, on the questions he believes he has answers to, but he isn't offensive in how he argues.
has that 1 caller ever been to a mosh pit? people fall down there all the time
I love this show and will never stop watching these older episodes but that theme song is like nails on a chalk board to me. lol.
It's part of the charm for me at this point. Has the same kind of ham fistedness as christian rock but with the added appeal of kind of agreeing with it.
@@Toner_Cartirdge yeah the lyrics are good but its so Dated. lol. It really does have that vibe of a struggling christian rock band though doesnt it. lol.
Chan is a ok with me 👍 respectful, civil, and mostly honest theist.
I would like him to call in soon and see how his epistemology has developed. He was pretty close to breaking ground on this one. If a god sent him to burn in eternal hell for using the brain he was given, that god can bite it.
I watch so many of these I have to leave a comment to remember if I watched this one or not. I wanna watch every single episode. I have to be somewhat close to that after two years. I have a lot of logical fallacies I'd like to fix. It takes practice.
The Facts And Feelings Same here, but I simply leave a like to see if I watched it already.
Floating around for 10 months, the boat was the size of a football field, cutting planks with stones, no nails, no hammers, nothingvto bend the boards, carrybthe logs an 800 yo men and 7 other people with no skills or tools, they didnt know about peguins, kangaroos, possums, no mentions of polar bears because theae ancient greek writers didnt know about animals outside their area, such as cougars, lizards, aardvarks, emus, all the birds flew around without landing and no food for 10 months ....such crap, it is so embarrasssing,
Noah didn't build the boat on his own. God helped him.
God made sure it was strong and that it didn't leak.
God also fed the animals and cleaned up the poo.
Miracles are easy for God.
@Hillary's emails to Lorne
He didn't.
@@rstevewarmorycom
You still don't get it do you !
GOD CAN DO ANYTHING.
@Hillary's emails to Lorne
God can make a universe. God can make water !
Those babies went straight to Heaven and are deep in the Bosom of Abraham.
God made sure it didn't hurt, by the way. Nice death.
@Hillary's emails to Lorne
Are you seriously suggesting that God can't solve problems !?
God doesn't have problems !
He just says, Let there be solutions.
Done.
I find it very interesting that the first caller will say he knows Jesus was the son of God because "he rose from the dead" and "people just don't rise from the dead". Exactly! They don't! THAT is where he's supposed to stop and hear what he's saying in his own words.
Secondly, using his own logic, he could also say people don't just get impregnated by the creator of the entire cosmos. True again. They don't. So what is more likely? The creator of the entire universe and everything everywhere decided to impregnate one woman - once in all eternity - in one little part of our planet and then that God-child (who is also God) died, came back to life - only to then leave again a few days later, say he'll be back soon (2021+ years and counting) and even said some wouldn't die before he returns/judgement day etc.. (I don't know any 2000 year old people still walking around).
The more I rationalize this stuff, the more I want to smack myself in the head for believing all this stuff for almost 45 years of my life before waking up to reality.
Thank you Matt. Thank God for you! (kidding) Found the show about 5 years ago and I just can't ever say enough about how grateful I am for you.
How did the ark store all the fresh water required, daily consumption must have been huge.
It was... _raining._ (Big part of the story.) Construct decks to funnel rainfall through drains into barrels below decks.
Tow an iceberg and catch the runoff.
Or...?
@@brucebaker810 lol, score one for the creationists! hahaha.
When we talk about "feeling" God? Isn't another feeling we can't explain "Love"? And if your really compare those two inside yourself? Isn't it very close, or even EXACTLY the same feeling? Personlly I've experienced both these "feelings" in different times while thinking God AND for another person, to the extreme point of my physical heart jumping out of my chest. Over my life, "Now" I don't confuse those definitions anymore, and I don't attribute Love to be some supernatural phenomena. It is simply the Love I experience to any degree for everything in this entire universe. My atheism now uncovers answers to serious physical dilemas, and I experience my heart jumping out of my chest all the time without fail. The knowledge one gains/uncovers over time gets exponentially greater as real questions get actual answers instead of settling for "magic did it". Life is wonderous and amazing, and I don't need a God to be the answer that stifles my yearning for knowledge and making life better and better day after day. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
'Filled with the holy spirit and fell down'. The spirit was in a bottle labelled alcohol.
The Holy and Sacrosanct Church of Those who Fall Down
And then start shaking around.
Watching in 2020 during the pandemic
I just want to add that multiple LDS prophets have said that the flood of Noah was essentially the baptism of the Earth and LDS doctrine only accepts baptism by immersion, so...
why cant their god"s miracles grow limbs back
Aaron Wordlaw Lizard‘s god can.
god is just extremely limited. more than humans because we have prosthetics
@@tarantulacake3561 i think your right!
@@mr.goodcat582 lol, right!
Axolotl god
"flop around" LOL! (like dumb fish)
It is not dumb fish, it is trying to move to an area where he can breath, he is sufforcating, it is just a dumb person,
Chan baffles me. Freewill being an illusion seems pretty easy. He thinks knowing it's an illusion is a problem. The illusion part isn't a problem.
Freewill is making decisions. Choosing one thing over another. We DO make decisions. That is why prison isn't a problem with determinism. The reason I make the choice is based on way more than I am consciously aware of. That is the determinism part.
You have events that have happened in your life that are in your subconscious, you have things that you don't think about. I don't like applejuice. It turns out that I had headaches a lot as a child and I was given applejuice a lot.
Freewill is choosing. The reason why you make the choice is determined. That means that, technically, you have the choice to do something or not do something, but the option you "choose" is determined by everything that has ever happened in your life. Which means, no matter what, you will ALWAYS ONLY choose "X".
That is why it's an illusion. Right now, the next choice you make is the only choice you can make. Even having this knowledge might cause you to make a different choice, but that too would just be an illusion. If you choose to make a bad choice on purpose just to prove you have freewill, that decision was made because your personality that has been built up your entire life, makes you the kind of person that would purposely make THAT choice.
You have the illusion of freewill because your decisions are based on things that are being calculated in your brain without you even being aware of. Do it's ALMOST as if you don't have a choice.
That's why foolish people think it would be immoral to lock up criminals. "They can't help the choices they make".
They do choose. Just because they aren't aware of the decisions. They still know it's wrong. Plus punishing them will affect future choices. Going to prison might prevent them from doing it again.
So freewill could be an illusion. And there is no problem knowing it's an illusion Chan.
Why do grooms fall down at weddings? Why do fans fall down when meeting stars? Same for Holy Rollers.
I don't accept premise 1. (Incidents, sure. But as anything widespread.) Citation?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a groom fall down and I’ve been to weddings. Which weddings do that?
@@FullmoonPhantom-dn2sr usually it's the bride's father
Drake from New Orleans has got to be drunk or high.
Noah got the pitch from the local pitch store (he had an account)
He put it on his account. But the store got washed away.
Good thing. Cuz payback is a pitch.
That first caller seemed so reasonable at the beginning and then when they dug into his beliefs and why he held them he just went off the rails, one of the most irrational ones I've seen. Scary how many people in society walk around being seemingly rational.
Any links to the “soul” debate? Mentioned At about 41:00. Sounds super interesting
it seems to me that matt and sam are saying just because you make decisions before you´re conciously aware of that choice you´re not making the choice. but as matt said himself your brain made the decision and you are your brain. even if i decide unconciously, i´m still deciding. the concious and unconcious are in communication and build the aggregate of who you are and that whole system is in constant flux based on genetics, experiences sensations and prior decicions.
to me these decision tests touch only very tangently upon the question of free will.
isn´t the real question one is asking when inquiring about free will "could i have acted/thought/said otherwise?" if you say i could have, you have adopted a burden of proof. if you say i couldn´t have, you have adopted a burden of proof. to me neither side have met their burden of proof and therefor i have to reject both statements.
We have to reject your lack of English skills. Your English is atrocious...!!!
What I don't understand about the flood story is why would God think that Noah and his family would act any differently than all before since they are all descendants of fallen Adam and Eve .🤔
This show has helped me with my deconstruction also my birthday is august 21st so its a fulfilled prophecy that this video would be posted its true
I like this Matt's version better than the pissed off version
12-year old me, laughed when she said “tip to tip”, lol
If freewill is an illusion, we couldn't have knowledge of it. It's problematic. Yes but no.
We can't have knowledge of it. So it's not problematic. We can think it is but we can't know
Free will doesn't exist. We are all subject to chemical reactions and electrical impulses.
We observe a deterministic universe. How are humans not of universe? The illusion , soul/free will, appears as a special pleading to me.
@@c.guydubois8270 how did you "observe" a deterministic universe? You have no way to demonstrate determinism.
Brilliant Matt - you exposed Chan's smarty pants free will expert principle reason for believing in god. We prayed and her cancer went away.
What if it's the believers keep bringing the conversation up..
You don’t have to wait until you have a beheaded pastor… call us back
😉
30:08 Freewill of the gaps :)
“The goal of the cosmological argument is to show that the universe has a cause.”
It fails.🤡
No Wi-Fi or anything on the ARC Count me out
Why would you need the neuroscience to come to the conclusion that free will is an illusion. I didn't know about the neuroscience but a simple logical syllogism seems to work just as good.... For example: The physics of the universe cannot be broken... in other words if you threw a grenade and mapped out every piece's trajectory, and then rewound time, would you get the same exact trajectory? For me the answer is yes... if you placed all the atoms of the grenade and the environment in the exact position again the same exact thing would result.... The trajectory you mapped would be replicated perfectly.
That seems to suggest... or just "therefore" everything in your brain, everything about who you are are physics reactions that are going to happen the way they happen no matter what... It just seems logical... the neuroscience seems to agree with this notion... but I came to this conclusion before I ever even knew about the neuroscience.
However, I always struggle with the fact that I DON'T understand quantum physics.... But what I do understand is that in some ways it seems the smallest particles are probabilistic in nature... Also, that certain waves can randomly pop into existence? Like I said I don't understand quantum physics enough to be able to accept the premises of my syllogism completely.
1:00:00 I sure hope if I am ever on trial this guy is not on the jury. Or maybe I should pray he is.
Maybe god fills only half of you with the Holy Spirit. Now not balanced. So fall down.
Religion os the perfect tool to keep the impoverishrf poor massed down
if you don't understand what demonstrate means then no wonder you think there is a soul.
The trouble with these callers is they are looking for proof and evidence.
The proper Christian doesn't need any of that science stuff.
They don't even need the Bible or Church or a preacher or any religious experience.
All they need to do is read what is written in their hearts. There's a bar code.
No, the true god uses RFID chips.
@@jameswest8280
Good idea James.
Labrery? Dawkins Book, „Atheists for Jesus“?!!!
Sam is a neuro scientist, uh ..I will go with his analysis, hello and his conclusion,
You would still be foolish to do so, because Sam can't prove it. If he could, the question would be settled among rational people.
Wisdom of the crowd..?
On certain questions only. ie space/volume/distance. Propotional things.
Poll 100 people. Eliminate the outliers' answers. (ie 3 and a million) Most will center on a small range. The correct answer is probably right near that range.
Counterintuitive to ad populum fallacy. Where "crowd believes x" doesn't strengthen argument for x.
Matt really enjoys answering "no" when asked if he's a materialist. Everytime someone asks, he either says "no" then pauses as if he's waiting for a response then says he's not a philosophical materialist but a methodological one.
Or say he's not a philosophical, then waits and says methodological.
Most people would just say they were a methodological when the question is asked. Matt ALWAYS starts with a NO.
Like he's throwing out bait.
If someone asked if you were an American, would you ever say "no, I'm not a South American, I'm a North American". But that's how Matt talks about materialism
In South America, some people get annoyed if you refer to the US as "America". understandably, given that we've officially declared the whole hemisphere as our 'backyard'
Drake needs a brain.
I went to Hell once!
I can prove that it exists!
If you speed on the freeway in HELL you will get pulled over and get a ticket!
IT is a city in Michigan where I am from!
When it all boils down, determinism is unprovable, because the universe can't be rewound to test it. This one reality is all we can know we have; quit trying to analyze the fantasy side of things and make it the best life it can be!
Determinism = a secular religion.
nothing outside of math is "provable", but before quantum mechanics was discovered, ALL the evidence pointed to the conclusion that the present is uniquely determined by the past. To think otherwise would have violated Occam's razor. Of course we can never be certain of something like this, and eventually more evidence was discovered that seems to point to a random element. but an absolute belief in free will is no less (I would say much more) an article of faith for people that a absolute belief in determinism. Even people who believe in determinism live life as if they had free will, so I don't see what kind of religion that could be
CORONAVIRUS BRAINWASHED, WORLDWIDE!!!
Please, let’s never delete this comment; it is a delicious snapshot of delusional thinking from a significant period in our history.
chan - la, another desperate, confused, trapped christian.
The Free Will question-debate. is absurd.
"Predetermined" by WHO, by WHAT???
Based on how stuff began to move in Big Bang. everything after that, the argument goes, was determined by that. Matter in motion. Where the stars and planets would form, explode, and become new stars.
The formation of earth, the life that began, and what all that life would do. Ineluctable. From the first moment. But it at least could be entirely materialistic. No Cosmic Pre-determiner Dude needed.
Deterministic might also apply to God's Plan. I don't know.
Hope that helps.
I think you just haven't heard all the different ideas on the subject. Besides bruce's reply, there's also the apossiblility things happen randomly without free will. Then there's all the various definitons of 'free will',...
Idiotic to criticize the physics of the Arc if God or a God was involved. DUH.
A god was not involved. The character of god said what to do and your goat herders were supposed to do it. Duh!
First you have to prove god exists. If you can't prove god exists then there is no reason to assume he had anything to do with it.
@@ravenwind420 ACCORDING TO THE STORY IN THE BIBLE. Not according to reality. But you understood that already?
the physics of circles is well-understood, my guy
@@ChannelMath What?
Contrary to popular belief, there is a soul. Any Person or animal is a soul. But only religious nut cases try to make it supernatural.
But "soul exists" IS the popular belief.
And the concept likely began as "animating life force" (from Greek etc). It gained a more general semi-secular use later. And gradually. Civic org often happened by church district. It's not a stretch to describe all the people in a parish as "204 'souls', meaning people. And for that expression to then extend to m,ore general use.