500 An Induction Motor As A Generator Without Altering The Motor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
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I have seen quite a few of these but most of them require you to drill out the rotor and glue in magnets - that is just not really necessary - you can make an induction motor into a generator really very easily - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
'Motors as Generators in Micro-Hydro Power' by Nigel Smith is probably available thru your local library, and gives a comprehensive guide to setting up an induction generator, selection of capacitors for induction generators, with a good description of the process to get the motor characteristics to calculate the capacitance, and a number of sample calculations to guide you in the (not overly difficult) process.
The capacitor is used to cancel out the reactive (inductive) current that the motor draws, apparently. This reactive current is relatively constant over the range of power outputs from the motor. A fair approximation of the required value can be found by (a) measuring the current drawn by the motor at no load, preferably with the cooling ducts blocked, to reduce the actual work being done by the motor. That current is mainly magnetising (inductive) current, with only a small 'true power' current driving the reduced windage, bearing friction, and low iron and copper resistive losses. (Some of the measured current is still driving resistive losses in the motor, but at no load, and with the cooling duct blocked, these losses are minimised, and most of the current will be reactive.)
Then, (b) determine the reactance of the motor to draw that current. XL = V / I. That gives the approximate reactance the capacitor needs to have to compensate for the motor reactance. (c) The capacitance can now be found from C(uF) = 10^6 / (2 x pi x f x Xc).
Example: a 1kW single phase motor draws 2.3A from a 230V supply at no-load. The motor reactance is approximately (230 / 2.3) ohms = 100 ohms. The capacitor that will also have approximately 100 ohms reactance at 50 Hz is.... (10^6 / (2 x pi x 50 x 100) = 31.8uF. That's the starting point for setting up the capacitor; it /will/ require a slightly larger capacitance to hit the 'sweet spot' for best operation.
For 3 phase machines, refer to Nigel Smith's book. The principle is the same, but the capacitors may be connected in either star or delta, and the capacitances and voltage ratings are different for each of those cases.
The capacitor is not a motor-starting type - these are rated for intermittent operation only, and often less than the motor voltage. (That's another story, though.) A polyester or other 'motor-run' capacitor is required, and should be rated at a higher voltage that the output voltage of the machine in operation. (Switching off a large load can cause a 50% surge in output volts in some machines!)
Ah, that’s the book I didn’t know I was looking for! Thanks!
Figures. I ask the question not 2 minutes before scrolling through the comments. I'm looking to turn a 3 phase washing machine motor into a wind turbine generator.
Many thanks for the tip. The book is available at Abe Books.
Thanks. Been looking for a long time to get a material like this.
yes...
This is just a super channel for the electrically minded people. You, Robert have such a great way of teaching the subject matter at hand that your method should be used in schools all over the world. Getting to the point in a straight way is priceless.
Keep up the great work fella and God bless.
Robert, you have a gift for teaching and the same desire for knowledge that many of us do. Keep up the great work mate
Seriously i appriciate this vid. Even if you do not know the math. I only need to know the components. Your awesome
I have heard folks say your mad.. or your a hustler.. But frankly I don't think they are smart enough to see what it is you are doing..
I find your videos refreshing and straight forward.. I think in this day when a lie is now the truth and the truth in now the lie.. people do not know how to listen and see straight.. You make me think.. you force my mind to actually see what is before me and wonder at the amazing things we have all taken for granted. Not just to flip a switch and expect the light to come one but actually question what makes the light come on and can I do something like it with out all this rigmarole. To explore as we all did as kids our world and see what it real is all about.. thanks Robert.. you make me feel young again..
mad - possibly.....but cheers mate
Nice answer 👌.
@@IrelandLover Thank you my brother.
@@tinkmarshino Sorry, I meant Robert.
@@IrelandLover No prob.. have a great week my friend.
That was a great explanation - I picked up a couple of washing machine motors form a scrappy today and whilst I was familiar with the bushed type (which i got working), I was confused by the other one which appeared to have no brushes but spun a lot smoother. Thankfully I thought "I know who's probably done a video on this" and wasn't disappointed. Going hunting for an old microwave tomorrow for some big capacitors to make it work as shown. Thank you so much for your videos, brilliantly explained, especially in the context of wind turbines (which is why I'm digging into this subject).
For what it is worth microwave oven capacitors are high voltage small capacity, you might find more suitable ones in other appliances. Power factor correction capacitors and motor start capacitors come to mind.
@@g0fvt Quoting Brian Spencer's excellent comment: "The capacitor is not a motor-starting type - these are rated for intermittent operation only, and often less than the motor voltage. (That's another story, though.) A polyester or other 'motor-run' capacitor is required, and should be rated at a higher voltage that the output voltage of the machine in operation. "
@ power factor correction capacitors such as used in flourescant light fittings will likely work fine, they are rated adequately. They tend to be about 4uF so a few in parallel would be needed.
But I want to know where we get the out out from, if the mains are connected to the other capacitor 😮
Im currently in ukraine trying to create backup generator from whatever junk we have at hand
we dont have drill for metal nor magnets nor good glue
and oh boy
god bless you for this video
we actualy do have some old stand fans here at junk piles and we can actualy find capasitors
i will still need quite some time to figure details out
im a newbe when it comes to electronics
but you my friend, is the one bringing hope to ukrainian refugies in the middle of the war
stay strong stay safe, doesn't matter who is giving what orders don't do stupid sh!t, greetings from Cape Town South Africa
Why is No one suggesting PEACE TALKS ?... Is it because you are making so much money for the west in the form of AID and WEAPONS ?..
I PRESUME THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO PAY THESE BACK IN THE FUTURE ?... as we say, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH !!!!
i hope you managed do do it and is fine by now
Videos like this is what made TH-cam so great. Thank you for making this video.
While the mains freqency in many parts of the world is 50hz, in the US it is 60hz. A permanent magnet motor, is a synchronous type motor with its synchronous speed depending on the number of pairs of poles in the field coils. In the US a synchronous motor will spin at (60hz aka cycles a second) × (60 seconds a minute)/(number of poles/2).
So in the US, with 2 poles making a pair in the stator, the synchronous speed is 3600 rpm. 2 pole pairs (4 poles) = 1800 rpm. 4 pole pairs = 900 rpm. In say the UK that would be 50hz ×60 seconds/(2/2)=3000 rpm. 50×60/(4/2)=1500, and 50×60/(8/2)=750 rpm respectively.
Now induction motors are asynchronous type motors and they require a difference in rotating speed between the synchronous speed of the rotating magnetic field in the electromagnetic field coils, and the rotating speed of the rotor. Induction motors are generally rated at about 5% slower than synchronous, in the US (3600rpm becomes 3420rpm, 1800rpm become 1710rpm). Too much slip (over 5%) causes excessive heating in the rotor and field coils.
Grid excitation: If you pluged an asynchronous induction motor into the wall and spin it faster than its synchronous speed, then instead of drawing power from the grid, it will generate electrical power pumping that power into the grid. Because of the induced currents inside the rotor cause heat in the rotor, you should not go any faster than about 5% faster slip than synchronous with the grid. For exampke, in the UK with 1 pole pair field winding motor 50×60/(2/2) × (slip factor 1.05)=3150rpm.
Self excited inductlion motors store "reactive power" in the capacitors with the inductance and capacitance acting as a resonate capacitor inductor tank circuit. The resonate freqency (aka syncronouse speed) of the tank circuit in the most simplist terms, is a function of capacitor and inductance 1/(2×pi×sqr(L×C)). Adding resistance in the coils and load complicate the formula.
Now it will continue to generate power as long as you dont try to pull too much power. Causing it to loose its self excitation. I don't have an equation for that.
awesome mate - thanks for taking the time to post all of that - made a lot of sense to me
@Reno Simpson which motor? I described 2 types, and then broke down two different ways an induction motor's field coils can be excited.
There are quite a generators on youtube with some being fundamentally different than others. Furthermore they can also range from being just click bate to hoax scams.
@@kreynolds1123 So true, and thank you so much for taking the time and effort to explain them in detail!! 🤯(mind blown!)
I cannot even begin to tell you how much,
I appreciate your kindness in doing this, you are a star!! ✨⭐🌠✨✨🌟
Namaste 🙏Andrea, Jasper and George the Pigeon. XxX.
yup, i've been watching german feedback to grid (bhkw) video's on youtube , and they spin up the diesel/gas engine on 380 volts, turn on the ignition, then over rev the induction motor to get it to deliver power back to the grid.,thereby reversing the power meter.
I live in NE Alabama and back in the 90s we had an ice storm that knocked our electricity out. I had a Chevette car with a diesel motor and I had a 120 hp 3 phase motor. We mounted a wheel with a tire to the induction motor and jacked the car up and placed the tire that was mounted to the 3 phase motor against one of the rear tires on the Chevette. The motor was a 460 volt 3 phase motor so I only used 2 of the three wires and ran the output through a transformer to get 240 volts. Then I added a large bank of oil filled capacitors. I adjusted the speed of the Chevette engine to give me 60 hertz. I connected the system to my home and we had electricity all night...only had to add more diesel fuel the next morning...worked great! The trick to using an induction motor as an alternator is to exceed the rated RPM of the motor and add enough capacitors. This was before I had a smart phone to video the system....TRUE STORY!
Thank you for bringing this up. I came to the same conclusions when I was studying for my exams in electromechanical machines, but because I had to study on, I completely forgot what it was that I had found. Good work, spot on! Love your series about universal and induction motors. Very well suited for wind energy. Also stepper motors. Great explanation and very visual
I love watching your videos Rob. When it comes to electronics my mind goes like Homer Simpsons. I think I'd have to start with basic circuits and take it from there lol. Still there's something relaxing about watching a man who loves what he's doing and humble enough to listen to advice. We never stop learning. God bless mate 👍🏻
What a brilliant display of technology. Thank you, pulling out the spare single phase induction motor now.
Hello. Very clever but so simple dunno why I'd never thought of that. Been trying to figure out how to do this for a while. I wish I'd seen this video before I pulled all the windings out of the stator and got loads of magnets. Oops. Very enjoyable as always to watch your videos. Thanks. John.
i was given the equipment from an old DRY CLEANING BUSINESS. the big dryer drum's bearing base was over 1 inch thick and over 4 foot diameter and had gussets too, the shaft was 2 inches thick or thicker. lots of 3 phase motors 220 volt and made in ITALY ! was planning to use to build a very large VAWT as i had 20 acres in montana that had one edge of the property on the edge of a very tall bluff. but got sick and ended up selling the property and scrapping out much of the equipment.
here in south dakota we have a strong wind most of the time. i can get metal 55 gallon barrels for free from a business, and i still have lots of the 3 phase motors, and other scrap metals.
it would be great if i could use the 3 phase 220 volt motors to make a VAWT that puts out enough DC VOLTAGE to keep a battery bank charged, maybe even hook several VAWT's in to a combiner some how.
i live next to a smelly ass cattle confinement operation so nobody would complain about noise etc...
as a scrapper i get lots of stuff that could be used all sorts of ways to build generators, but having the proper place to store it all is the problem!
I'm loving your videos Robert, I've passed on your channel to our local makerspace to give them some ideas on teaching children interested in STEM
Here is an example of how to calculate the capacitance needed I got this example of wiki. It goes up if you need to draw a load from the generator.
As an example, consider the use of a 10 hp, 1760 r/min, 440 V, three-phase induction motor as an asynchronous generator. The full-load current of the motor is 10 A and the full-load power factor is 0.8.
Required capacitance per phase if capacitors are connected in delta:
Apparent power S = √3 E I = 1.73 × 440 × 10 = 7612 VA
Active power P = S cos θ = 7612 × 0.8 = 6090 W
Reactive power Q = {\displaystyle {\sqrt {S^{2}-P^{2}}}}{\sqrt {S^{2}-P^{2}}} = 4567 VAR
For a machine to run as an asynchronous generator, capacitor bank must supply minimum 4567 / 3 phases = 1523 VAR per phase. Voltage per capacitor is 440 V because capacitors are connected in delta.
Capacitive current Ic = Q/E = 1523/440 = 3.46 A
Capacitive reactance per phase Xc = E/Ic = 127 Ω
Minimum capacitance per phase:
C = 1 / (2*π*f*Xc) = 1 / (2 * 3.141 * 60 * 127) = 21 microfarads.
If the load also absorbs reactive power, capacitor bank must be increased in size to compensate.
Prime mover speed should be used to generate frequency of 60 Hz:
Typically, slip should be similar to full-load value when machine is running as motor, but negative (generator operation):
if Ns = 1800, one can choose N=Ns+40 rpm
Required prime mover speed N = 1800 + 40 = 1840 rpm.
@@just_saw_dust Yes, 10^6 is 10 to the 6th power - 1,000,000. It converts Farads (the base unit) to miocrofarads (the common unit.)
thanks !
The motor you took from the drill is not an induction motor. It is a "universal" AC/DC brushed motor. By definition, induction motors induce current in the rotor windings by varying flux. The don't have brushes. They can't run on DC. The drill motor will run nicely on DC.
They actually induce a VOLTAGE at a limited current, you can't get current out of anything, without first detecting a voltage present.
The induction motor is the one he converted at the end not the universal motor he talked about at the begining which he explained was a universal motor, but its hard to find stuff on induction motors with outer rotors like the ones that drive ac fans on industrial ac units.
Have wanted to build a peddle driven induction motor generator for a while, I found out previously that there is a sweet spot at a certain rpm for producing optimum power , would be great to exercise and produce a fair amount of power at the same time, gearing would need to be precise of course, love your videos, always learn something new :)
Another great video, the way you teach its a lot of fun to learn. Thank you
Thank you Sir, you've answered questions I've been contemplating for a very long time... very exceptional...!!!
Those brushed drill motors are called Universal AC/DC motors because they will run off either AC or DC. They run faster than synchronous speed, so I wouldn't strictly classify them induction motors. What they really are is a series DC motor. I consider an induction motor one where the armature's magnetic field is excited via induced current.
Very enjoyable Rob.Took me back to my days studying city and guilds electrical principles :-)
v cool mate lol
I have learned so much from you it's unreal. Thank you. All so useful for providing my shed with power without running it from the mains cable from the house.
One request, diagrams, flash them up for a couple of seconds at end of video and i can freeze frame and screenshot.
That's a good idea. I wish more 'tubers did that, too few seem to do it.
Totally agree, I have all the parts necessary to make this now, but I can’t figure out the wiring. @robertmurraysmith, do you have a diagram you could share with us?
Thanks for this, it is not possible to look at all the videos at the time I did not know that I needed this. Now I do and this might well be the solution to my wind generator project.
just a ps for anybody starting to experiment with motors as generators , Take a tip and start with the ones found in the heater box or the radiator fan . They come with nice magnets and decent bearings . They will always generate and help teach about what you can get out of these devices. . Old battery drills also are a good way of learning with lots of fun bits.Even a bike dynamo with a diode will make a fun wind project spinning out in the wind running 3or for very bright LED'S or through a circuit charging phones for free . I my self like the hub dynamos we used to find made in the middle of some front wheels as they make wonderful wind projects for free small amounts of power so get looking . I;m wondering weather to start a channel?
Very interesting! I agree, it would be interesting to see it hooked up to something to bring it up to speed. You are correct, 60 hertz is what we have in the States.
I Love ❤️ this man. Wishing 🙏 you 😃👍. Love from Africa 🌍
Thank you very much for explaining how the induction motor works, and how to use it as a generator. I've been trying to understand it all day but now I think the light finally came on.
glad it worked for you mate - cheers
@@ThinkingandTinkering ; Is your induction motor running on negative feedback spikes, from Counterspace?
Si alguien contruye este sistema aquí en los Estados Unidos y queda fuera de red energía es legal pregunto
Very interesting and fun tutorial on induction motors and generators. Thank you.
cheers mate
Thanks for all the information you provide, but as someone who has just came along your videos. I’m new to all this and what I’d like to see if possible is a close up of which wires you are connecting together as l found it hard to absorb all the information without seeing which wire goes to where along with why?
Okay, thanks for the good value, Robert M .Smith. great job.
if someone ever figures out how to keep someone alive forever you should be first on that list. what you provide to society is extremely useful
Good info. Ive now halted using magnets on an old beefy ac powertool motor.
Hi very helpful video, thanks. How exactly do you wire the capacitors for a single phase induction motor? Do you add them on to the existing 8 mF capacitor or wire them directly where the 2 power leads go in? My motors power box has 6 terminals. 2 for power, 2 for a resistor and 2 for an existing capacitor
I did this a while ago when i was stuck for a generator, i used a stationary petrol engine and hooked it up to a 3kw 240v ac squirrel cage motor and simply set the motor speed until i got about 200v , i was able to run just about everything off it, the main issue was though was when a relatively heavy load stopped drawing power the governor on the motor didn't keep up and you got this surge in speed hence why i ran it around 200v, so when the voltage did spike it only went up around 240v to 260v so still fairly safe for most of the stuff i was running , when i first started it up before i got tuning it i was able to generate up to the 1000v mark as for the capacitors i pretty much didn't have to change anything
Need a load cell or an electronic switch that cuts throttle when voltage changes by a particular amount or rpm trigger.
I have a coleman generator that only has 1 speed, and it's only happy when it's got a load on. Sounds like its going to come apart every time the air compressor shuts off.
Need a voltage limiting device that only comes on when there is net wattage available. Think a light bulb that goes dim when a fan comes on, then bright when the fan turns off. The draw would be 0 if load is used elsewhere, but up to a few hundred watts when load drops off. Maybe just a 250 watt incandescent bulb would do the job without fancy electronics.
I'm contemplating an $8 arduino and an automotive relay with a lock solenoid to sense either rpm or voltage delta to cut throttle to idle on the colman. Otherwise it's around $200 to adapt a throttle control off a Honda.
I'll be using the coleman again today, I plan to try the light bulb idea to see if it will keep it sounding healthy. If I had a tach I could ignore the sound, provided it was running at rated speed.
tha is awesome mate - did you do a vid of the set up?
one of those cheapo computer voltage regulators should do the trick.. here in the Philippines they are quite cheap
Inverter generator. i think they use some type of electric clutch and the governor. something like that inside there.
@@travishanson166 probably a simple solution would be to add a bunch of diode's in series so that they turn on at a specific voltage, the diodes will remain off until the voltage goes over what you want it to and begin to conduct to a light bulb or two to keep a load on it.. it's automatic and it's cheap! Just size the diode's for the voltage and current that they are going to be working with, add up each of the voltage drop from each diode till you get to where you want to be at, if you don't want to light things up, you can always use a high powered resistor to dial in how much load you need to keep it stable. The light is great for testing as you can see when the diode's are turning on but once you have it worked out, swap out the light for a resistor in a similar resistance.. I know it's not as cool as using a microcontroller but it should work and it doesn't need power to operate!
Hope this helps 🙂
Super video Robert. Thankyou for the upload!!!!!!
If you combine this with the magnetic reduction gear you go over in another video, you have both the capability to accomplish speed control and also multiple speeds.
I would love to see you do a collaboration with Jeremy Fielding over at the Fielding channel on this concept.
He could possibly do all the required calculations too.
Your video is playing at 4:00, and as I watch, I wanted to say that I learned how to magnetize the rotor by coiling a thick Guage electric cable through the holes that are put within the much larger ones. Once you have it ran through correctly, you just add an electric charge to the cable, and then remove the cable and the rotor maintains the magnetic field. I'll share the link to the video I watched. I tried it myself on an old blower motor that came out of a evaporative cooler. I wanted to turn the blower into a wind generator. I'll bring back the link shortly after I finish the video.
Amazing this is very handy well done working that out
cheers mate
That's really awesome. I've got to look more at this.
You should! lol
Yes, that was of much interest. And... very... empowering.
Indeed.
cheers mate - glad you liked it
anyone here from GreatScott?
Me
Might be.....
From here, to there, and back to here, glad I didn’t buy any magnets!
Yeah he did totally wreck his nice new motor
@@Johann52005 absolutely. I've bought the book with the capacitor calculations and can get a motor from a scrapyard.
Excellent video Robert.
glad you liked it mate
Another great an informative video my friend!
cheers mate and glad you enjoyed it
Brilliant, thanks this will save me money. Great job! Will these be able to self run if a flywheel and small motor to keep up the start RPM?
Great video, great explanation
cheers mate
I have a old washing and dryer motor with the capacitor that came with them do you think these capacitor will do the job. And would the wires be connected the same way as if it was tun off grid power
I love your videos. Keep them comings.
I really enjoy your videos, very helpful! I could use your advise regarding the induction motor. I tried to use it as generator, 2hp single phase with 2x200mq capacitors alteady inbuild. I got only 50v output
Don't worry about that. It's the power output you want. AC can easily be transformed to other voltages - by a transformer (the clue is in the name!)
What RM-S always forgets to mention is the power, which is the rate of useful work it can do. 50 V at 1 A is 50 W and that can be transformed to 250 V at 0.2 A which is still 50 W and is useful. If your generator got 250 V, but only 4 mA, that might sound better, but is only 1 W of useful power.
His emergency battery with 0.3 V at 40 mA is 0.012 W and of dubious value even for charging a phone. Just think how your phone discharges even if you don't make or receive any calls: mine might last 48 hours like that. Lets be generous and say it could do 100 hours on a charge, if I don't use it. My phone requires about 5 W hours for a full charge, so 0.012 W will take about 400 hours!
But it's not useless! I can make dozens of calls a day on a full charge, so 5 - 10 hours charging might just give me a single call, provided the phone was off the rest of the time.
You sir are amazing 👏 thank you
Thank you for your enjoyable and informative videos! A small critique of this video, the black shirt sweater makes it difficult to view the parts you are discussing. Keep them coming!
cheers mate - i change to a blue shirt in summer - i am one of those guys that hates to think about his dress so i always wear the same outfit - it drives my wife mad lol
You have come back to my world. Although my Ioniq uses a permanent magnet (synchronous 3-phase motor) it provides excellent motor and regen for braking in the functioning of the motion of the vehicle with of course recapture of energy to the batteries. Mechanical braking is almost unnecessary,.
Awesome and hanks for sharing mate
Pretty amazing. No hocus pocus here, I'd love to see a 3 phase motor do this and see the 3 phase output on an O-Scope.
0-scope ? you mean an osk ill oscopy ...../ what we called them, in tech school.....
Great presentations , I found it is possible also to permanently magnetize the squirrel cage with a length of 8 mm guage wire and 2 batteries in series . After this process the squirrel cage will be magnetize permanently alone.
@@eddieruth.5761 If you spin wire around something with iron in it and connect those wire ends on a power supply, you are magnetizing with an electric magnet. Any loop of wire powered up will create a magnetic field and if there is something metallic inside the loop, it will become magnetic.
Simplified it a bit. Study on a subject a bit before you stick wires into anything. You can try it first with thin wire, a paper clip and a small 9V battery. When you are confident enough to know what you are doing, you can magnetize your screw driver tips and other stuff.
@@Teknopottu every time I do that I get shocked by the wire and battery lol…
God your doing great things.creating interests for kids adults alike. Keep going this world needs more and more people like yourself. Thanks
Hello. I am not very electrical savy but I was wondering if a person could use the mag from a lawnmower and use a windmill to spin it and then collect the current and store it or use it to power devices? From experience one can get quite a shock from it. lol
Tip of the day when playing with ready made motors you will need to know .some motors have allouy windings looking like copper wire . even coated the same colour . What you will find is when you try to energize and parts such as the stata or rota com it will fail . in most cases the armature will have copper wire but fields are made of allouy .metals , what the chinese do is attach 2inches of copper wire to the ends of there cleaner and washer motors with crimps hid in insulation , so if you grab the motor and clean of some insulation it shows to be copper ,. In truth this is done because of heat and currents traveling across the connections . when the com spins and brush gear make contact frequencies of 216hz will be made per second while the motor pulses on and off .The faster the spin the higher the frequency the less current drawn .When under load brush motors draw more current as they slow under load .So the crafty sods attach real copper to the fields . Now when you try feeding the motor with a voltage to create a magnetic field all you get back is just a few volts .. so take off the brushes and remove the bearings for future projects and bin it , Some washer motors have the same set up and want make a bean , so don;t wast time and check first for copper .
I tried to use an induction motor as a belt pulled generator from a stationary bike. It was rated 1800 rpm and I was able to pedal it pass that speed to induce voltage but here is where the problem came into play..when attached to a load...like a fan or light bulb...the current( or voltage ) dropped and it became very hard to pedal.(I consider myself in decent shape) why is this.? When I use a 90 volt DC motor there is no drop in power
@@rogerrabbit7469 That load needs current and it take real muscle to generate so the load took energy. ...You can convert load into horse power . roughly 750 watts becomes one horse power . 100 watts will be .75 horse now using a bulb will be a high current resistive load were as another motor is an inductive load as the voltage races through the coils the current lags behind . Making it less of a load till the motor is given work to do . -so no load the motor you put on the output had no load so it would take less current ?
I'm saddened and somewhat amazed how many of these videos youtube is not letting me find until they are really rather out of date.
While I watch your videos 'religiously', you may notice that many of my comments are way younger than the release date.
I only just now found this one through the logarithm which is interfering with them coming to me the same day you put them up.
@Delicious DeBlair
It's all down to the
YT algorithms, and also,
I have found that sometimes we need to "unsub, then resubscribe,"
to ensure that we are notified of an upload!!
(* Unsub then Sub within a few moments!)
I'm not sure why this is, but I hope this helps!!
A lot of my friends have also had the same issues,
~in fact I was told how to sort it out, by a pal of mine!
Quick note, make sure that you hit the All Uploads bell thingy, that way you get notified as soon as a new video is uploaded...
(* &, shamefully, Yes, I had to be told about this as well... 🤦🏻♀️)
Anyways, I do hope that this does help you, and my "unsolicited-advice" isn't in any way offensive, as I intend only to help!! 💞
Kindest Regards,
Andrea, Jasper and George the Pigeon. XxX.
Induction moters are used as generator in places where speed/rpm is variable because it can output canstant frequency independent of rpm and depends on input frequency given at the start using a soft stater, but moter should operate at super-syncronus rpm to generate power
You sir are amazing 👏
Very interesting....but that should be top secret and you give it all to us....hhhhh...very valuable information for me..thank you very much and God bless you...
I can recall the 1981 great comedy, Only fools and horses with David Jason and Nycholas Lindhurst in the main roles. Really amusing indeed
Great video, incidentally this is how the Tesla vehicle can regenerate energy, also this is a Tesla invention of course, the rotor is a shorted inductor which will universally oppose any inductive force on it hence it will rotate after being in motion or with {as stated the 90deg alternate winding or start C with a centrifuge switch.}
Thanks for sharing . One for the historic record.
cheers mate and you spot on the machine is equally as good in either direction - another reason for it's popularity
forgot to say:
IGNORANCE IS A BLESSING FOR FOOLS/IDIPTS!!!
Not really but good try.
Okay. Now I understand why the alternator requires an input current to produce voltage.
Hadn't made that connection before. Thanks.
Realizing this is years later, but any chance you have a simple sketch of the circuit? inputs/outputs of the motor?
Thanks! and very helpful!
i was only disappointed not seeing the motor/generator get up to speed. . .otherwise excellent
yeah you are right I should have done that - cheers
@@ThinkingandTinkering do that pls.
andrew
@@ThinkingandTinkering part 2 : )
Very interesting. Thanks.
Sir I are a book of knowledge thank you for the information
I know they motors from car buffers have brushess, but they do make great generators, my test results have shown good voltage and current.
I remember my old Electrical principles module from '86.
The rotor is known as a 'Squirrel cage' rotor, It relies on induced eddy currents.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel-cage_rotor
awesome mate - cheers
This type of video will get people thinking. Even if they don't fully understand it.
Any chance you have a wiring diagram? I'm trying to convert a 115V dryer motor into a generator and I can't figure out how to get it wired up. There are 6 pins. No colors. I'm planning on spinning the motor/generator with my bike so I can exercise and charge things at the same time :).
I have a question! I'm looking for a simple way to make a DC to AC inverter that can match the power in a US wall socket. Can I use a DC motor to turn the rotor in that AC motor + the capacitor to generate an AC current? Specifically, can I generate 120V AC at 60Hz? If so, how much DC current would be required to supply into the DC motor in order to get that high AC power?
it was pretty helpful. my thing im using as a generator is a 14 pole 60 hertz ceiling fan motor(80 ohms which i assume is 8 poles and also 60 ohms which maybe 6 poles). I have a 15uf capacitor in parallel to the 80 ohm winding. it is i believe a capacitor start motor. i got the capacitor from an old generator(very very old). the fan works but by spinning it by hand(to generate), i can only get like 300 millivolts and barely any current output(i have a stepper motor as generator and it can generate like 30vac). Please suggest something i can do to improve results.
You are likely using the wrong capacitor value. You have to experiment. And don't forget about what he said. You MUST get it to rotate substantially over synchronous speed. I don't know the speed of the ceiling fan. The blades keep the motor from ever reaching true synchronous speed. Take off the blades and run the fan. Use a tach to check RPM. Now spin your generator faster than that, by a little bit. You will know when you reach the right speed because the generator will start loading down it's prime mover, whatever that is. Maybe a wind turbine, bike pedals, or hand crank with a belt.
I love your channel, you are just the old guy three million doors down... a few things.. when the wind is blowing and the rotor is turning free wheeling, it extracts no energy from the air. If you load it the more it slows down the more energy you are extracting.....when you put iron in a coil you lose a little bit of energy to flip the iron back and forth, but there is a gain because the iron is more permeable to the field than the air in the coil. In the case of your perimeter of the circle idea, the greater voltage is generated when the magnetic lines of force move faster.If You go the axle to extra you have the mechanical problems you mentioned and you have a speed and gearing problem. When you decide between series and parallel in the coils, try to have just enough voltage and more current. it the source is a higher voltage than the load like a car alternator at high way speeds the extra voltage is blown off as heat. thats why a car alternator has fins all over it.
If you power down the generator while connected to a load the initial magnetization of the core will be zero. If that happens disconnect the load and don't spin the generator (static) and temporarily apply a "AA" battery to it. The battery will leave a residual magnetic field that will be a starting magnetic field when you spin the generator up. To help prevent demagnetizing the field put two silicon diodes in anti parallel (anode of one to the cathode of two, and the cathode of one to the anode of two) and put the diodes in series with one of the load wires. The diodes will disconnect the load when the voltage drops down to either plus or minus 0.6v and leave a tiny bit of residual magnetic flux in the generator core. The small 0.6 drop won't be a serious loss at 120/220 volts AC. The generator works better with more capacitance. You can use polarized capacitors but you have to take another step before hooking them up. You take two of the same capacitance and hook their negatives together. The negatives are insulated and not used. The remaining two positive leads are used as if they aren't polarized and can be used on AC. The capacitance rating is halved but you now have a non-polarized capacitor.
It seems this would be perfect for a vertical wind generator, as the speed of the blades is self-limiting, so if you match the inductive generator speed to the blades, it will operate at peak efficiency.
Thanks for sharing. That mite be why my sear's generator doesn't work. Because a cap went bad.
Hi Rob, I was wondering why you didn't use a three bridge rectifier? Super easy to connect three wires from the motor and the other to your load. Cheers mate.
no real reason mate - i did exactly that in another video and I like to different things in different videos
On my 1980 Honda cm200t , it took 55,000 micro farads (on dc output, voltage is 7.7 volts and doesn't drop when lights come on) to get the charger to work without a battery.
On a generac induction generator (whose internal capacitor was bad) I was able to use 6x 23 farad(maybe micro farad, I dont recall) 600 volt hydrogen lighting starting capacitors to get it to fire back up. Capacitors were plugged into the extra outlet with the load into the other. The capacitors burned out after a day, but when I would go over 1000 watts, the field collapsed until the load fell into the range of the generator.
I think if I had more farad than I needed, the capacitors would last.
Or just order the replacement part.
I was out of power for three days and I wanted to make coffee and watch tv but the free generator wasnt working. So I just started trying stuff after disassembly and reassembling didnt work.
23 farads is a lot mate likely to be microfards thogh i think more like 200 microfards would be better
@@ThinkingandTinkering yeah I was probably only at around 122 mf, I'll order some modern caps if the replacement part isn't available, and maybe do some more experiments. The thing needs a new fuel tank, possibly a new diode on the rotor. (Probably the reason to need extra capacitance) .
@@travishanson166 remember dont use electrolitic capacitors. Film capacitors are likely to get hot. Basically, youll want a run capacitor that can handle ..... ill say at least 3 times the peek voltage of what your working with, unless someone has a better recommendation.
@@kreynolds1123 that's pretty much what I was thinking. The ones I was using were 600v but I dont think they were built for the duty cycle, plus I was probably under the necessary farads by about 80 minimum. They were also of the "outlawed" type. When I try it again I will take notes and see how long things last with a load on. I'd like to get one of those wattage tracking devices instead of doing the math. If I can record the voltage swings and peak wattage before the field collapses I can fine tune the necessary capacitance for the duty.
I think they stopped making parts for that particular generator, so getting specific replacements might be difficult. But it's mostly about learning how and why it all works than anything. Then accepting any free generator that someone says is broken lol.
I would love to see this into a next generation high efficiency windmill. I'm sure the use of graphene and super capacitors will help!
...........not so sure...induction motors are designed to spin synchronized to the mains frequency ..would they still need to spin at same RPM if they are generating electricity versus being driven by the mains frequency supply?
@@philipvernejules9926 As a motor it actually runs slightly slower than mains frequency, due to the "slippage" that Robert mentioned, with the speed difference depending on load. But it will be designed to run most efficiently at around mains frequency, so it will probably be most efficient as a generator about the same speed. Probably not so good for a wind turbine, which needs to accommodate a wide range of speeds.
That would be cool!
they work well for wind turbines mate - there is some control circuitry between the generator and grid to account for variable frequency for sure but mostly it's a diode and thyristor bridge
You can get a thrown-away UPS for free and replace the dead battery. It has electronics for a rectifier, battery charger, and inverter.
It ought to even have brown-out protection, so it might be tolerant of a variable frequency input from a wind turbine.
That is fascinating... ty !
Very interesting, but a bit too complicated for me, be good to see a very basic diagram of the set up, especially how and where the Cap is placed. I’ve got a few of those Microwave Caps and Induction motors. So I would like try it out, just a thought, is it not possible to magnetise the rotor?
A diagram would be awesome 😅
Works well with a water turbine where it rotates just slightly faster than synchronous speed. You can attach to local electrical power and makes your watthour billing meter run backwards for a credit. It is inherently safe because if there is a power failure, it stops generating.
A resident of our village owns a property with a water stream. He installed a turbine and an induction motor that is connected to electrical power. All was fine until he didn't use any power in his home for a while and the watt-hour billing meter ran backwards. The power billing people became alarmed thinking that the meter was connected backwards indicating a possible drug grow operation. However this was found to not be the case but they remained concerned that power generation could backfeed making repairs to the lines dangerous. The inspector was an electrical engineer reported back that it was perfectly safe. I don't think that they would write a check for the power surplus but it did subtract from his personal usage.
Can someone help me out here? I bought a '24-Volt, 350W' rated motor that they said could also be used as a generator (it was billed as a 'Permatnent Magnet DC motor/generator'). But when I test it by spinning with a power drill, i can only generate hardly 10V, spinning it as fast at the drill will go. Does it really take so many RPM to generate a decent amount of voltage? I have to generate MORE than 12/24v to charge a 12/24v battery cluster, right? Or can I somehow charge them with just the lower amount of voltage? Do I have to hook the batteries up to it BEFOREHAND? (to 'excite' the stator/windings). Im just trying to charge my 24v (or even by backup 12v) battery clusters. Any help/pointers would be appreciated. Thanks!
This is all well and good but, how do i put this to practical, efficient work in a grid down electricity replacement scenario
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing. Just one question though, to anyone out there reading this, where do I find 400V 100uF capacitors? Robert mentions that he's using 1000V microwave capacitors but recommends using 400V ~100-200uF. The motor I am using has a 400V 0.1uF capacitor. I salvage parts so I'm wondering what kinds of devices should I be looking for to find appropriate capacitors for this application?
I'm also wondering what happens with different combinations of capacitance on the primary and auxiliary windings?
To answer my own question, well the first one anyway: I found 400V 100uF capacitors inside power supplies (phone/laptop chargers, power tool chargers etc).
You have to use NON-polarized caps for this. If you use the ones out of power supplies, they will not like being charged backwards during the other side of the sine wave. They will either waste too much energy and the gen simply won't work, or they could blow up.
You need a RUN capacitor from an electric motor. Or get one from a air conditioning service shop. Or on Amazon. Make sure to use a cap with a voltage rating close to double the voltage you intend to generate, or it will either get hot or explode.
Fascinating stuff...
Is it safe for the motor? I have minimal knowledge about how too little voltage can damage some motors and thus simple potentiometer dimmer switches cannot always safely be utilized. Is over and or under powering the motor safe for brushless induction motors without modification to be used for generation?
Does one need to put one capacitor on each of the field windings?
I was not clear which wires the capacitors were supposed to be connected to.
That's super cool!!!
I just watched the video, how can you determine the watt output of the squirrel motor conversion to generator
I would like to learn more about this because I have a squirrel cage and motor that I’ve been wanting to turn into a generator. But I can’t find any information on how to do it
Great info..
Just curious what motor you would recommend to charge a 48v battery bank? Possibly for a lower speed wind turbine?
You'd need a gearbox due to low speeds and a generator head... just buy one designed to produce power. Ripping old motors designed to turn electric motive force into mechanical force and trying to reverse it is simply inefficient. And the reason wind turbines suck is because their speed is unpredictable and need complex gearboxes to try to maintain a constant speed for the generator whether it is going fast or slow. But if there's little wind or too much you get nothing at all.
@@etherealrose2139 There are lots of buck/boost-converters that boost the voltage up to an adjustable level and lover the voltage when needed, making more amperes that way. Try googling it. No need for gearboxes or constant wind speeds, atleast when working with reused stuff and not aiming for best performance. Anything you generate with diy is better than nothing :)
I work on generators and diesel power generators and engines . A motor start assist for underpowered installations: a flywheel coupled to a gearbox to an induction motor. The system idles at 60 Hz . 1800 RPM. 1500 for 50 Hz. Gives a LOT of motor starting amps! Used to be common in industry. I still find them sometimes.Thanks for posting!
Cuánta es la capacidad en amperaje de un alternador de camión diesel
Just as a thought experiment.... How would a Multi Stage Tesla Turbine with some form of gearbox, let say 3 to 1, interact with something like this. In theory, you get very high revolutions out of a Tesla turbine. Not sure how much torque this might require from the turbine, but the power output should be quite good because of the speeds that you can reach with a multi stage turbine.
Thank you
an easy and quick thing to do for induction motor is to magnetize the rotor.
what's needed 4 mm diameter copper wire length it depends on how big is the rotor and it has to be wound the wire all around the metal excluded the aluminum clockwise,1 battery 12v "even if i believe and i haven't tested it yet but i will, it would be better if apply to the wires 1.5 to 2 volts for about 10 15 seconds in order to have a better result at low amps let's say 1 amp top".
same process to magnetize ferrite,the difference is they have different professional tools for that,home made you make it do with what you have and spending less possible!!
or the same way a mechanic magnetize its tools.