FYP Full Session 13: Duns Scotus and William of Ockham

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
  • with Professor John Milbank.
    Access more of this educational material by becoming a member of the Centre for Applied Theology at / appliedtheology

ความคิดเห็น • 38

  • @davidgreenwood5602
    @davidgreenwood5602 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Good to hear so much anglo-saxon 'scholarship' being debunked.
    Reaffirms my feelings,as an anglican,that we lost our way,and our soul a very long time ago.

    • @albertoalejandrelara515
      @albertoalejandrelara515 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      As soon as it started with Henry VIII and got worse when his son assumed the English throne.

  • @glenclary3231
    @glenclary3231 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for publishing. Very helpful

  • @alfredorezende-po8pg
    @alfredorezende-po8pg 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Descartes já resolveu o dilema: tudo que não seja de natureza de coisa pensante (as seja coisa extensa) pode ser explicado pelas mesmas noções fundamentais seja ela o mundo estelar ou das coisas infinitesimais como atomos do nosso corpo.

  • @marcoliver5104
    @marcoliver5104 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    listening to this reminds me of "8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." BEWARE of being spoiled !

  • @jeffreykalb9752
    @jeffreykalb9752 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    There are three metaphysical elements emphasized about Scotus: univocity of being, the formal distinction, and the primacy of the will. Aquinas admits that, although the metaphysician treats being analogously, the logician treats it univocally. He also says that in every analogical concept there is a point of agreement (univocity) and a point of difference. Scotus says that the univocal concept is simply whatever can be used as a middle term in a (logical) syllogism. Further, he admits that there is an analogous concept formed from the univocal concept and its intrinsic mode, by which he means its perfection in act. So there is in fact only a difference of emphasis. Scotus maintains that the divine perfections, though not really distinct, are formally distinct on the side of God. Aquinas also admits in his "Commentary on the Sentences" that wisdom and goodness are identical with the divine Essence, but are distinct from each other, not only in our minds, but in God as well. So all the complaints about the Scotistic formal distinction can be applied equally to Saint Thomas. Finally, although it must be granted that Scotus assigns primacy to the will over the intellect, one must also note that the entire Franciscan theological tradition, including Saint Bonaventure, a Doctor of the Catholic Church, does the same. Aquinas maintains the superiority of the intellect in itself, particularly with the beatific vision, but maintains that the will is more important in this life. So, to say that Scotus represents a catastrophic turning-point in philosophy and theology is simply ridiculous. (In fact, he is even further removed from the nominalism/terminism of Ockham than is Aquinas.) Radical Orthodoxy is simply borrowing (without philosophical or theological understanding) from a certain crotchety group of Thomists who are less interested in the truth than in being on the right "team." Catholics, for their part, ought to obey the ancient promulgation by the Holy See that no one is to call into question the orthodoxy of the positions of now Blessed Duns Scotus.

  • @freedomslunch
    @freedomslunch ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I just discovered Scotus. Not sure how to process him yet. Can't believe I missed him all these decades.

    • @anselman3156
      @anselman3156 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He is an interesting character. What chiefly attracted my interest in him was his advocacy of the Immaculate Conception, the idea that the Incarnation would have happened even if man had not fallen, and that he is said to represent a Franciscan perspective as against a Dominican Thomistic one. I have just dipped my toes in the water and have much more to learn about his philosophical thinking. So much to learn, and it's good to have such resources as this "take" on him.

    • @freedomslunch
      @freedomslunch ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@anselman3156 always so much to learn.....

  • @J_Z913
    @J_Z913 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just got this video recommended to me after watching Esoterica's video on the subject. Fantastic discussion!

  • @alfredorezende-po8pg
    @alfredorezende-po8pg 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    As coisas de mesma Ordem existencial são explicadas a partir de uma mesma base de noções fundamentais( Platão /Descares)

  • @alfredorezende-po8pg
    @alfredorezende-po8pg 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    A distinção entre eles é relativo à questão da universais. Para Scott, elas são reais de acordo com Platão.

  • @michaelpresberg3817
    @michaelpresberg3817 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Fascinating. Basically it seems that Scotus/Ockham are in a very real sense the anti- Plato/Aristotle. Thank you!

    • @toahordika6
      @toahordika6 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      No. Milbank slanders Scotus as an Ockhamite. His claims have little to do with the actual beliefs of Scotus. Read actual Scotus scholars, such as Noone, Wolter, Cross, Fehlner, etc.

    • @25chrishall
      @25chrishall 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@toahordika6 And thats your perspective. Tired of “Franciscan’s” just referring to niche authors instead of actually engaging with their interlocutor.

    • @thebyzantinescotist7081
      @thebyzantinescotist7081 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@25chrishall Noone and Wolter are niche? Some of the most well respected scholars in Scotus scholarship. The problem is that Milbank refuses to engage with actual Scotus scholarship. I have personally talked with him about this multiple times and each time he has admitted near total ignorance of them but says he has no interest in reading them.

    • @thebyzantinescotist7081
      @thebyzantinescotist7081 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@25chrishall I did engage with your arguments on that other thread yesterday. It is the radical Orthodoxy crowd that utterly refuses to dialogue with Scotists. See for example how Milbank responded to Horan’s book. He just dismissed it out of hand. If you have never heard the name Allan Wolter, it is you who are ignorant of Scotus scholarship, not me.

    • @25chrishall
      @25chrishall 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@thebyzantinescotist7081 If you have a critique of Milbank, then critique his position. Don’t deflect to the opinion of other authors which you dont articulate. This is a red herring. The burden of proof is on you as the person critiquing the proposed position. Be a philosopher first, and Scotist second.

  • @davidgreenwood5602
    @davidgreenwood5602 ปีที่แล้ว

    I must find out more of this englishman and fellow Yorkshireman,Ashard(?) of St.Victor!

  • @freedomslunch
    @freedomslunch ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Looking for God in the word salad of non belief has long plagued the whole Christian "project."

  • @kimfreeborn
    @kimfreeborn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Scotus seems to be proto-Spinoza.

    • @jeffreykalb9752
      @jeffreykalb9752 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Then I think you have read neither.

  • @BruceFlanaganVietnam
    @BruceFlanaganVietnam 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Luther rules

    • @jeffreykalb9752
      @jeffreykalb9752 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven?

  • @anselman3156
    @anselman3156 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    "enchanted, enchanted, enchanted...." Such a tiresomely repeated word. Too derived from notions of magic and spell casting, NOT Christianity.

    • @freedomslunch
      @freedomslunch ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hey. I know you from Paul VK. Also subbed to your channel. Good to "see" you here.

    • @anselman3156
      @anselman3156 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@freedomslunch Hi! Yes, I've enjoyed your comments on PVK. Good to have you as a viewer. I hope the varied content stays interesting.

  • @outofoblivionproductions4015
    @outofoblivionproductions4015 ปีที่แล้ว

    Scotus seems like the forefather of Protestantism. Nit-picking and being a contrarian in a subtle and complex way, without documenting a full systematic philosophy/theology.

    • @thebyzantinescotist7081
      @thebyzantinescotist7081 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Have you ever read anything Scotus wrote? He’s incredibly systematic on both philosophy and theology.

    • @Joeonline26
      @Joeonline26 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@thebyzantinescotist7081 Lmao why are you ranting everywhere in these comments? We've seen your channel, we know you're clueless on these topics...

    • @jeffreykalb9752
      @jeffreykalb9752 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      No. He is Ockham's (and Luther's) worst nightmare.

    • @neroresurrected
      @neroresurrected 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      No, that title is usually ascribed to William of Ockham.