WARFRAME | Indifference and The Psychological, Lovecraftian Horror of the Man in the Wall
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Well... Considering the day... I thought we might talk about all the little things that go into making The man in the wall so unsettling, and let me tell you DE is hitting us in all the vulnerable spots at once with this one. We can't help but be uncomfortable around him...
#tennocreate #whispersinthewalls #warframe
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There's a clever bit of irony in the concept of the Indifference bringing the Tenno into the uncanny valley. There's almost certinly a degree of transhuman dread the humanoid characters feelwhen looking at our warframes... operating, and yet even we have something inhuman yet so mockingly human in its action that we have to fear as well.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Uncanny valley, as off-putting as it is, has its own charm, hence skibidi toilet being so popular. Man in the wall and the great indifference are charming bc of them being uncanny valley and eldritch in a sense
@@ShikaRoddyWhat looks human about a head in a toilet?
@@anondabomb head
It's not just the Warframes - it's the Tenno themselves. They're commonly referred to as "Void Demons" by others. In my understanding, they're essentially what happened to Curtis in Phantasmagoria 2 - they aren't human (or Orokin), but rather something else which took their places in the Void. What came back wasn't children, but monsters who are convinced they are children.
When you first meet wally on the zariman, there is some interesting dialogue that is easily overlooked. Your tenno had picked up one of those globe lights, you check on the room, you approach wally. Your tenno says "i think you lost your light, here you can have mine" wally says "thanks kiddo, i think i will"
Always thought that had some deeper meaning.
It does!!! Many consider light as… hope or even innocence, that’s what he wants…
@TheDsIEGE *Among Other Things...*
The way I see it that dialogue told us everything it wants think about it, the sacrifice it was happy our minds were confused on if we were still us or umbra, then it was happier as ballas died, but it’s still not able to do something, and I’m guessing it doesn’t know how to fully get out it’s wall form and wants a way to transfer into the perfect corrupted vessel to move freely
But if you go to duviri, it’s new dashing man form hates the drifter, which I assume is because they can switch with the operator and that’s what it wanted to have the ability to do
@@TheDsIEGE it also is shaped like *Oro.*
What did the man in the wall do? Shaped us like... what we are now.
TMITW didn't just take our light, he took our Oro and shaped it as he pleased.
I sure do love existential dread and unknowable eldritch horrors from outside the universe
I think we've only just begun too...
Imo it's not even scary cuz I don't get it
@@beanman9936 Well, ignorance is bliss after all :)
Everything has a place and time... but I dont like eLdRiTcH hOrrOrS getting shoehorned into every major game or game series...
Feels like such a crutch. I feel it's out of place in games like Warcraft 3 or Fallout 3. I'm particularily allergic to tentacled bipedal squidfaces that drop by uninvited into my beloved game franchises.
What if I was a game designer and started shoehorning in furry, brony, weeb culture into Resident Evil series? What Blizzard developers made all the evils in Diablo universe subservient to tentactled squidface? I'd be so void (pun intended) of talent and lazy and it's make no sense.
That being said, I do like the whole HEY KIDDO! /rap-tap-tap /and man-in-the-wall.gif aspect of warframe. Albeit a little too-on-the-nose in the way of how it's told to the player.
@@OlviMasta77 But it's not shoehorned in, like, at all. At least, not in the context of Warframe, because it's been there since before Warframe was even Warframe.
Warframe's spiritual predecessor Dark Sector has in it the horrific and mysterious Technocyte VIrus, and by its name one would assume that it might be completely technological in origin. But that may not be the case, as two notable quotes from the characters Yargo Mensik and Robert Mezner respectively show hints of underlying eldritch horror, with the former making a mention of "the Old Ones" and the latter speaking of "A chorus of drowning voices... Calling out for a savior!"
The Technocyte Virus potentially has origins from the deep ocean that was discovered, researched, reengineered and weaponized by the United States military. It got out and caused two outbreaks - the first one being stopped, and the second one culminating in Robert Mezner going insane and infecting the entire planet with the Virus via a mysterious electric signal in an event known as the Great Plague.
I think the void is very warplike in that I don't think the indifference existed until Albrecht made contact and fell into it. I think indifference as a being was created the moment Albrecht saw the reflection of himself in the void, the intense fear of the unknowable growing with each moment the thing in front of him starts mimicking, first his looks, then his voice and memories and then it kept growing with the subconscious dread of an uncaring and empty dimension twisting and warping him from the insides. I think he opened Pandora's box and every second he was in the void was just like opening five more Pandora's boxes.
This seems like a very real possibility considering the existence of Duviri. And we've already been shown many times that the void operates on its own rules and logic that defies any rules and logic that we may know in our own world. The main key being that the void defies causality. There doesn't have to be reason why something happens within the void, things can just be.
That would be great. All the messed up things he's done in a pointless cyclical battle that he's responsible for? God, I hope, lol.
Just a small correction: there is no proper pronunciation of Cthulhu. Which is intentional because the names of those elder beings were not meant for human minds or mouths. Lovecraft wanted his imagined horrors to be truly alien, despite his faults he understood how terrifying the unknown is.
As of the Void.
So the Abyss.
Yaaaay that means i can use the cool sounding pronounciation and not whatever that goofy nerd site made up 😃
hell yeah I can pronounce Cthulhu as skwid·wrd and no one can tell me I'm wrong!
Culoloo forever
Correction of your correction: There is a proper pronunciation, but for a human to actually say. Lovecraft stated that "K'lulu" is the closest approximation our mouths can form.
The editing, the transitions, chills man, literal chills. Great job man.
Hey, thank you! I needed to get this one right in order to make you all feel something, that was the point of the vid!!!
@@TheDsIEGE It was definitely the worst idea to watch this before sleep
@@wayneyang7920 yeah same im watching this at 11 30 in the night
The more I watch of TheDsIEGE the more I appreciate Warframe as a whole.
I mean, a lot of his videos are a lot more him than they are Warframe. Like, he does mostly speculation about what things COULD mean, that we have no way of knowing if they DO mean. So uh... I guess that's a compliment to him.
Be Prepared. Also... Happy Halloween KiDdO...
You said something to the effect of "what if he's always there..." and you happen to be right. I recently paused as soon as I got back to my orbiter and went into decoration. On my way back from the other side of the ship suddenly I notice Wally hiding frozen behind a corner, leaning around and peeking from behind the wall (from right next to the railjack entrance). No "hey kiddo" or anything, just creeping around the ship silently watching. Happy Halloween indeed!
Happy Halloween to you too.:D
And also nice snipes at the Bungie for cutting loose a whole heap of their staff out of the blue, what a horrific thing for them to do during the holiday season.
@@MB-sq7ynit’s disgusting. All while Pete parsons tries to play good guy. Totally pathetic.
I feel like The Indifference is less like it’s always watching us as more like it’s constantly aware of us. Kinda like the interactions with the main antagonist of system shock and the player, we’re practically a little insect crawling around under The Indifference’s skin. Since they’re potentially the conscious of the void itself that’s a reality atop our own. And at anytime can crush us into nothingness, especially due to our deal with them.
In the story of warframe we’re not the equivalent of the tau or the imperium of man, not even the eldar, orks or the tyrannids being the sentient’s roll to play. But the mindless necron foot soldier, we might be funny if you’re one of us or allied to us - but to others were a terrifying, ancient war machine that’s nearly impossible to kill with our basic weapons being insanely powerful and kill anything in our way without ever saying a word. And at anytime the one who stands above us can do as he pleases with us. Saying were good or evil kinda loses its meaning, when were the chosen one of a god who just couldn’t care.
Are we even alive anymore or just the living idea of ourselves from before the deal - like the difter is to dominus thrax?
In other words, Were the jrpg puppet dictator of a dark god. Frown aside once formalities are no longer needed to start the final boss.
🤯 excellent
The more I see the Man in The Wall act or take part in the story, the more I get the feeling that he’s simply adjusting chess pieces to achieve an inevitable outcome where he gets what he wants. That no matter what we do, it’s inevitable that the Man in the Wall will succeed and that all we’ve been able to achieve was just slowing him down and prolonging the inevitable whether it be Rell keeping TMITW’s “gaze”, beating back the Angels of Zahriman, or the breaking off of the Duviri islands once they showed signs of TMITW influence and invading.
Absolutely. He cares little for us, but... if he can manipulate us, he's going to. I'm guessing we're gonna be the ones to let him in, too.
@@TheDsIEGE I mean just look at his Behavior throughout the story. Entrati may have escaped him and closed the portal to the Void before he could come through… but his finger was able to slip through. A finger that would go on to power Void technology such as the Zariman ten zero which got trapped in the Void which was filled to the brim with children who couldn’t properly control their emotions with minds that were underdeveloped enough to adapt to the Void rather than go mad like the adults. One (or more) of those children was also desperate enough to make a deal with him, becoming a sort of anchor, Vassal, or vessel for TMITW when Entrati didn’t. He undoubtedly lurked in the shadows, gaining influence and possibly power over the Tenno as they unearthed their repressed memories and gained control over their Void powers as a result. The best comparison I can make with this is Bloodborne where Insight allows players to perceive the Eldritch truth and see the Great Ones while simultaneously also making the build up of Frenzy increase. It’s a double sword as while they gain perception and greater power, they now know of the greater horrors that ignorance once hid with madness and frenzy (or in this case, TMITW control) now being more likely. This is all while the presence of the Void increased in the Origin system on account of the Orokin implementing it into nearly every facet of life, meaning part of TMITW is in every piece of tech in the Orogin system on some level. Rell may have been able to hold his attention for a time, but it seems oddly coincidental that Rell’s ability to keep TMITW at bay seems to run out when the Tenno both return and become more capable than ever (obviously ignoring the meta reasoning of quest releases to expand lore). TMITW also goes on to show visions to the Tenno which sometimes impacts their actions or thoughts, or even as far as allowing the creation of certain tools that help push its agenda such as the Paracesis since Ballas only gave the Tenno the blueprint via a vision TMITW caused. Then there’s the how time seemed to work very optimally in Duviri with events or arrivals or departures in Duviri seemingly to be perfectly timed or coordinated to make things happen and change.
It’s like TMITW has a “hand” (pun intended) in everything that goes on that directly or indirectly involves the Void even when we don’t realize it, and it’s all to serve his own ends.
The thing about him being the “great indifference” also gives me a potential idea as to WHY he does what he does. What’s the Void at the end of the day? It’s essentially all possibilities of time in existence all recorded in a separate dimensions where thought controls all. It’s practically infinite knowledge incarnate and even personified. So imagine an entity that embodies this space. That controls it and is as much a part of it as it is a part of them. They essentially are omniscient and omnipotent. They KNOW everything because they can perceive and understand every possibility in existence, including all of past, present, and futures. They are also all powerful because of the nature of the Void being fueled by thought, controlling altering just about anything with physics being regularly changed, and time being “whatever” in its truest sense. The ONLY limitation for such a being is that they’re trapped in the Void and can’t do the same in the physical world. And for such a all powerful and all knowing being, it must be boring to basically know everything there has, is, and will be. There’s no questions to be answered. There’s nothing to achieve. Such a being would find that existence dreadfully boring and it’s not like there was a period where they were ignorant and then gradually gained all this knowledge and power. At best when they came into existence, there was the smallest instant where they were like everyone else. Ignorant, curious, young, and needing to grow. Before they suddenly learn everything and gained everything through the Void. By having the Void leak into the physical world and influencing it, TMITW is essentially finding a way to circumvent his omniscience as well as partake in a challenge. He basically wants excitement and to potentially find something he doesn’t know about. To discover and see what happens as if it’s a show. To do anything to have some form of interest or intrigue rather than the ever prevalent indifference that comes with being all knowing and all powerful
@@wizardwolf1020Wally's ultimate goal being to engineer a means to circumvent his own omniscience, to create an event the results of which he himself cannot predict, out of sheer, overwhelming boredom, would be kinda awesome. Partially in that it kinda mimics us, indifferently massacring millions upon millions simply for the possibility of gaining something to entertain ourselves with.
@@notsae66 I mean let’s compare this to video games. Wally is basically that player that’s broken the game down from top to bottom. Ranging the know how from programming, gameplay, story, development, the people involved, where it was sold, the different achievements, etc. literally everything tied to the game while also being able to play it masterfully without any flaw or mistake with everything that can be unlocked or found, unlocked and found. They essentially reach a point where there’s nothing left to achieve or find nothing new to do with that game. So what do they do? Well ingnoring the obvious solution being to play a different/new game. The player starts making alterations and intentionally altering things just to see if there’s something new to be learned/found or even to get some sense of challenge
so Wally is pulling a Xanatos Gambit, all outcomes eventually lead to victory for him.
Eldritch horrors are my favorite kind of terror. Just an existential dread that normal horror can't scratch
Agreed
For real. Horror movies and jumpscares just piss me off, BUT a good eldritch horror story? That shit's gonna keep me up at night.
I think the Man In The Wall manifests as our Warframe powers. Literally destroying countless lives every time we start a mission. We know Transference and our Warframe abilities are only possible via "void magic." It's not a stretch to think Man plays an active hand in this.
No one pronounces "Cthulhu" correctly. No human could.
I am glad you are talking in depth about indifference. It is something I struggle with on a daily basis.
Don’t lose your light my friend. It’s all we have. Don’t forget that indifference is an illusion. Things always matter, that’s just how it is and someone, maybe someone you don’t even realize but someone probably relies on yours. Maybe more than one person. Keeping your light inspires others to do the same. Whatever you do, NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER GIVE IN. Life is what you make of it.
@@TheDsIEGEwell said
@@TheDsIEGE Thanks man.
The Man in the wall could be like a kid scorching ants with a magnifying glass. Also one thing that originally made me fall for Warframe is the fact that it is a looter shooter that on first glance doesn't look like it has anything deep to it. But when you take the time to dive into it, you realize that what looked like just a looter shooter has so much more depth than some rpg games.
Perfectly said
One of the scariest moments I have ever seen put to film was in "The Strangers". At the end of the film this family of killers in animal masks slaughters a woman's husband in front of her and makes her watch. When she screams, "Why?! Why are you doing this?!" one of the family members pulls up her mask to reveal that she is just a teenage girl and says with a smile, "Because we can." It's the horror of an enemy that has no deeper motivation, that can't be reasoned, bribed or bargained with. In truth it's probably the same dread a Corpus or Grineer feels when they see a Warframe.
I mean to be fair, the corpus and grineer we fight aren't like civilians, they're the soldiers of two oppressive system-wide establishments. We the player might be doing it for fun, but we're an outside factor from the story.
@@SissypheanCatboy I don't know about that, we kill hundreds of their ranks without a second thought, even after an extermination mission, they try to fleed and we just chase them down... And one important note, we are the ones attacking them, even if they are a piece of garbage, they still try to fight for their lives and their faction, we don't... We do it because we can do it, Orokin too, the Tenno kill them because they simply can and at the very beginning, the story as is developed, sometimes feels like we shouldn't listen to the Lotus.
There is a ton of the indifference
@@Voldrim359 see but here's the issue, chief. The tenno are not a big, powerful empire. They are a small bunch of rebels, and in-universe you are one of the very few tenno who actually have a warframe. The tenno can't be expected to fight fair, because if they did they'd be as irrelevant and powerless as the honor-fetishizing Arbiters of Hexus.
@@Voldrim359 i mean why would you feel remorse to the grineer and corpus? Theyre both trying to screw every civilian in the system either by killing, torturing, transforming, experimenting and god knows what else theyve done. The way i see it the tenno are like an immune system trying to keep everything in order
The quote is "because you were home" and the girl doesn't remove her mask when saying it.
The way you edited that intro was utterly incredible. Wild to me that harrow's quest was so long ago now, and the theming for the man in the wall is still so consistent and horrifying.
That Jumpscare was uncalled for but it did help with the theory.
It was purely for science I promise you.
Ah yes, my favorite eldritch horror deity, Calulu
I get such joy when you release new videos, thank you for all the effort you put forth in your content, I appreciate you greatly!
I appreciate you checking the video out!!!
Great Video, loving the questions your bring to the table. Cosmic Horror in my scifi game? why yes please.
You just can't beat it. Warframe's story is doing wonderful things right now, hoping they continue!
bro just showed up during the final battle of our current storyline with such power that the main boss and the chapion defeating him could basically not even stand, said some words and left. he's more powerful than everything we've seen so far
That's what I think too.
The void tongue in the beginning of the video getting cut off by a Daytona ad had me rolling
Man you make me love Warframe so much more with your videos and im already obsessed with it lol!
This game really goes hard if you pay attention. There’s a ton of deep concepts baked into the lore. I’ll keep trying to dig and find the good stuff for you all.
@TheDsIEGE Thank you, and keep up the work!
I went to Tennocon, and they are amazing people to meet!
Nah the transition from rell to the great indifference is built different
Lotus: *says anything"
Me: I dunno, Mom, I just shoot stuff. Just point me at a target, m'kay?
A note on the pronunciation: lovecraft has stated that the pronunciation is unimportant due Cthulhu being ancient and bore manny names
Good point, I figured I'd try to cover my bases....
Not only that, but the word "C'thulhu" is only a rough approximation, since human vocal chords can't replicate the noises that make up the language his name is in, since it's spoken by aliens
Still though I've never heard it called "kalooloo", that's just nonsense
So I have a theory that The Man in the Wall is actually being locked in the void, similar to how we Tenno can either have only the operator or the drifter outside (hinted at by the cutscene during the New War, where time is up and we have to choose.) We offer our light to him during the handshake allowing him a wider window to see into our dimension. The reason he wanted us was so that he was not stuck in a dimension of nothing but that it could now take on a form from the light we shared, hence Duviri Plains. I believe Albrecht's maiden voyage into the void was the first time the void had taken a shape and the first emotion that was pushed out was the fear he felt both from his potential failure but also when someone he didn't know told him "Little Bengal", something only he knew. I believe we will get a more definitive answer during Whispers in the Wall but that more questions will be raised, only to be answered more during 1999. I feel that Wallie might not be a final boss, more like an indifferent guide in the land in-between, the void. I also have a theory that the new faction Murmurs will be the remnants of what the Sentients left behind, their inability to reproduce stripped from them, the unborn, The Murmurs of what could have been. Just a few of the thoughts I have rumbling in my brain. Appreciate the fun and thought provoking videos as always TheDsIEGE!
I love that theory about the Murmers
Outside of the Man In The Wall, the only character in video games this strange, powerful and creepy is the G-Man from Half-Life.
You have done it. You are my favorite Warframe creator🤘🏽
Thank you!!! That means a lot to hear... or well see in this case but you get the picture... :)
This channel has been something I wanted for Warframe for a long time. Fantastic content 👍
I’m glad you’re enjoying it!!!
The intro was cool asf
I kinda want to watch signs now
While watching the video i stopped playing wf and i was just listening. The sign - miracle part really struck me
Perfectly set the Halloween mood
Just great!
I wanted to make sure I didn't butcher that scene but if you enjoyed it I'll just assume I didn't and if anyone says it sucks... I'm gonna tell them you said it didn't so thank you in advance!!!
Battle not with monsters,
Lest ye become a monster,
And if you gaze into the abyss,
The abyss gazes also into you.
Definitely a treat for Halloween, superb video. Keep up the good work, my man. (Edited it because I found the exact quote.)
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed it and happy Halloween!
So if I remember my Lovecraft correctly, R'ylehian isn't supposed to be pronouncable by humans and therefore both pronounciations of Cthulhu is correct (and wrong).
I remember old audiobooks saying "Clulu" but that seems to have lost in favor of "Khtulu" in modern pop culture.
There is a really good chance that just how operator was freed by the drifter from the paradox. The twin exists through a paradox until we sediment him in reality. And he is the version of us that does ally with wally fully. The one who became indifferent.
DE should just hire this guy already
I agree!
Yep exactly 😮😊
When ranking up with either the family or holdfasts I remember a statement being said about how before the orikin there were gods. I don’t remember the quote exactly but it has stayed in my mind. I think before the orikin the “indifference” was known and probably had a following before the orikin became the new “gods”. The indifference became upset sense someone made it obsolete. It wanted to get rid of the orikin and it did get rid of it using the tenno and sentients and now it wants to have its following again in some way.
I donno it’s just been something I’ve been thinking about occasionally.
I feel like the quote came from Quinn more over the family but I’m not sure. It was over a year ago
I think the usage of the consistent name of "the indifference" may actually hint towards the end goals of the man in the wall.
It could very well be that his goal is to capture emotion itself - something that he does not and cannot posess, but merely copy - and either bring it to the void, or bring the void to it.
With the whispers in the walls content all implying that he is "breaking through", i think theres merit to the idea that Wally is trying to bring himself or the void to a place where there is emotion... potentially because of conceptual embodiment. We call it the void, a word commonly associated with nothingness and emptiness, after all.. and the conceptual embodiment that emotions result in may yield that. Bringing all manner of emotion to the void means he can endlessly create, destroy, and manipulate.
What he would plan to do with said emotions is anyones guess, but every major story event he's been present in has all been centered around an emotion of some kind (the new war, for example, around Ballas' hatred of tenno, Lotus' love of the tenno, etc.) If wally has his hands in all of these conflicts.. does that hint that he is trying to understand emotion itself? Does him "breaking through" into our reality imply that he plans to use these emotions and conceptual embodiment to wage war on all of existence? I dont know, but I think theres something there and felt i had to share.
This shines more than bright, especially the last quote and perspective not just through game but individual levels. Alchemy and hermeticism in consciousness and subconscious. I've had powerful dreams of fear and darkness.... But all comes down to avenues.. what path will you take? A Ryma path or an ironic but blind sided path. We are all part of a collective but in which degree does one weigh heavier through individual thought processes. Which makes me think of the Bible of you are your own temple. But I digress. There's far more than what meets the eye(s). Thus for, was it I who is wrong, or was it the other.....
Perfectly put. You get it!
wally disappears when you pan away, but if you notice he does not disappear if your warframe is facing away but the camera is not. Hes staring through the fourth wall.
(okay I am sure the script that decides to follow him is based on the camera not the character but still fun to think on)
that would make a lot of sense to maybe be a thing that isn't just for game reasons
Im pretty sure he no longer does that. Right when chains of harrow was released, he used to act like that. But nowadays (in my experience) his appearnce has a fixed timer.
Nah I think you nailed it. It feels completely intentional, and I think that’s what makes truly excellent video game horror: they want YOU to know that this entity sees you sitting at your desk, but they will never acknowledge it right out
@@fitzviandraduivenab2790just played through New War and can confirm he doesn’t disappear until he’s off-screen
Rell's whole deal was keeping Wally at bay, but after subsequently killing him, he remained in his Warframe, and the mantle of keeping Wally in the void falls unto us.
I've always wondered how he came across a warframe...
Damn, the editing was well done. If you wanted to give a person chills, you succeeded.
Believe it or not, Wally once vanished the moment I blinked, i was so terrified i felt like my heart was about to explode
Yeah, he's been guilty of that with me too... Sneaky little bastard lol
I love how many people are scared of the man in the wall meanwhile he just a homie to me
I mean... I love him too, the problem is... what if he's playing us?
@@TheDsIEGE gather all the Tenno to jump him (this is satire)
Wicked transition at 1:10
Wow!!! Thank you, I very much appreciate that!
I don't want to even consider why the human brain has a mechanism to recognize 'almost people' and why the response to that is discomfort/fear
Why did we evolve to be afraid of thing that hadn't existed until the modern age 😢
"what business is it of yours if i destroy you" -trisolaris
Something i was thinking while watching the video is the color of indifference, grey, no feeling's, just grey, at that got my thinking of the Duviri paradox Questline at the beginning the color is grey, as the drifter is full of apathy. However, this start to changes when The drifter meets Teshin and continues with the adventure, in the end Duviri is full of colors as The Drifter is full of feeling's.
When we make the deal with Wally, we exchange void powers for our light, or that's what he told us, as Quin told we have our own light that reflets two shadows, one represents us and the other Wally. But what we decide to do with the second shadow could seal our fate, do we hate that shadow and make our light shine brighter so there's only one, do we embrace this shadow and turn off our light so we can become one, or we find another way one that keeps our light and the other shadow controlling the indifferences and the feeling's.
One path is just light an nothing more, feelings but not thinking, but only our feelings, egocentrism
The other one rational darkness, indifferent to our own feelings, and indifferent to other people feelings, apathy
And multiple paths between the dark and light, guided by feelings but measured with rationality, humanity
The decision of the path that we follow is in our hands.
you put into words an idea I was trying to figure out for so long now. This is how the alignment in Warframe ties into the themes of the game, it was right there and i just didn't see it!
The all feelings path is indifferent to everyone else's thoughts and feelings and beliefs, while all rational is indifferent to any mutable feelings it comes into contact with. Both the light and the dark, at their most extreme, are indifferent, and thus no better than the Indifference. But taking the paths in the middle leads us to be more affected by others, we care more the closer we get to the center.
The alignment isn't about being good, not directly, it's about finding a place between two very different kinds of Indifference.
Thanks for figuring it out
(a brief aside, I believe the center paths are best represented by eclipses, as an eclipse has both blinding light and suffocating darkness, in some ways a clash between the two, in others a combination. Also, eclipses are caused by the two cosmic bodies affecting how light is cast, thus the eclipse effect is the direct result of multiple interactions occuring, unlike a grey void.)
i find it funny as hell that you put the bungie thing there lmaoo
The lore is awesome so far
Masterful insight of the indiference.
13:46 I was listening to this video while driving, you almost got my ass killed lmao
The Pete Parsons shot was funny 😂
I watched a video yesterday about how someone explained that cosmic horror is scary to a lot of people because there's this huge entity that could kill you in the blink of eye.
However I made a comment where I mentioned the Man In The Wall and how it's scary because it doesn't kill you. It plays with its victims. Bending their reality and memories to his will. It even does the opposite where it keeps his victims alive.
And that's what makes him scary to me.
The idea of being killed in an instant by something larger than me doesn't scare me. Being small doesn't scare me either. Idk you could die in an instant in your day to day life too. You could simply cross the street, not paying attention and get hit by a bus. And the idea of being small and insignificant isn't new to me either. Being significant to the people that matter to myself is much more important than how big I am in the universe or my own planet.
But the idea that this bug cosmic force that can destroy everything doesn't do that, but instead just bends and twists everything you've ever known, and then keeping you alive, forcing you to be its toy. While you can never escape it, because it's everywhere, it watches you everything and shows and disappears as it pleases and no one knows why it does this. That is scary to me.
Who's to say he's running around using your likeness? He's an otherworldly being, I'd be willing to bet that what you see isn't the same as what other simultaneous witnesses would see.
Oof, the scathing hot side-eye at Pete Parsons and the layoffs. Can't deny I'm not among the people who feel very indifferent about Destiny now
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
@@TheDsIEGE I fell out with Warframe for some time and came to enjoy Destiny 2. Had me hooked on the integrity of its story, and all the well-written lore. As of Lightfall, that one pull factor has fallen away, and I'm back with Warframe since last month, and to my surprise, enjoyed The New War when I played it (I did not like it when it first came out)
To be fair at 4:34, I'm pretty sure Lovecraft himself probably didn’t know how to pronounce the names of the old ones, their names are meant more to be 'felt' than said out loud.
Great video!
Btw i dont know if anybody noticed but in the scene where Entrati goes down the stairs, a second before he starts smiling the clock hits 12:00. I can't figure out if there is a meaning behind it but maybe you could make something of it.
I guarantee there will be with that... It makes me feel like time travel is gonna play a part, maybe that's a moment we need to be there for as a tenno... tough to say, but, it will be significant. Well unless it's a Y2K easter egg, but ASIDE from that... yes.
@@TheDsIEGEA clock hitting midnight is used as the symbol for the Doomsday clock
Even if Lovecraft crawled out of the grave and recorded it himself, Clue-loo is never gonna stick.
My personal theory is that Wally *IS* the void. The literal personification of it, mimicking whatever it touches because that's simply what it does. It has no form of its own, so it takes yours and twists it. It has no rules of normality, so it takes yours and twists them. It has no personality, so it takes yours, as the player, and twists it.
The Man in the Wall is just like us. We're logging onto a game, playing through, doing whatever. The Man in the Wall is something beyond the game, just like us.
The world of Warframe is. The Man in the Wall, the Void, simply... Isn't.
This is correct if you ask me as well.
Alt hypothesis: A being who has never had to interact with things suddenly does and so takes the only form it knows, you. The first reaction everyone has is fear so it associates itself with such as does our subconscious but it wants to interact hence exaggerated smile and jump scares but no grotesque or threatening horrors. So all in all outer dimensional space daddy in the wall knows nothing about interactions and morality but from us and the sociopath albrecht is just trying to interact with this new intriguing material universe.
I should have not watched this in bed.
Thats was the absolute coolest intro i have ever had the privilege of witnessing
I’m glad you enjoyed it!!! Happy Halloween!
Likewise
HE’S IN THE GODDAM WALL!!!!!!!
LOLOL
Heres a thought in relation to indifference and the void. What if the void is part of the cosmic structure of the warframe universe. Kind of tabila rasa (blank face) force of power operating as a function of the universe.
However once Albrect came into direct contact with this power in took on a face of personality and thought that would otherwise be incapable of as/in the void. It might explain how (beyond Rells intervention) how we see more and more of the man in the wall and its growth in personality.
Tldr being it could be something of an indifferent entity to one increasingly involved in the physical plane of existence.
The void looks back at you is a sort of nonsense phrase that makes you think about the impossibility of looking at a void. What you in fact look at is a symbolic representation of the void, which in truth never represents the void. The fear here is that science will become so potent that it will create such a good symbolic representation of "the void" that it is essentially the same thing as "the void" but in a form which we can look at. This seems like it will never happen in reality.
Honestly toward Albreight and the man in the wall all I feel is… indifferent, I see them not as good not as evil simply another force in their reality no less than I see myself as simply being an existence as I am
I've been wondering for a long time if our tenno isn't just mentally ill. I mean look at duviri, it's a dreamscape. How much is actually "real" in this game. The man in the wall might just be one of our "personalities".
There is a layer unbroken.
Why does everyone assume Wally is the bad guy?
Let's look carefully: He gave us a second chance at life, gave us skills that put us at the top of the food chain, asked nothing in return, none of our actions are conditional, even when is against his, made us immune to even Void energy, made us practically immortal. And yet it demands nothing, not even attention.
Agreed but... I feel like it was done for his needs moreso than ours...
There is a price to everything, nothing comes for free
maybe you are right on one level,
but he is also called the Indifference. Indifference isn't complete evil, it just means not caring, not caring enough to do whatever is wanted.
It makes sense that it wouldn't demand attention, it doesn't care about attention. It has it's own things to do, we are just a means to an end, a tool. It's end doesn't have to be any unspeakable evil, maybe it just wants to be a real boy, maybe it just wants to grow a garden on Mars, maybe it just wants to give people magic superpowers for shits and giggles, but the fact that it doesn't seem to care about us, even when we are going to war with it (which is a little hard to believe) is what is scary.
never jumped as i did in that little scene, u did me dirty....instant sub
It was all for science, I promise you!!! Thank you for the sub!!!!
Another interesting video! I'd never thought about the whole fear factor behind 'indifference' as a concept. Top 3 lore hopes for me; DE connecting darksector's timeline to warframe (1999 seems close enough and I'm hyped), getting the option to side WITH wally, and more lore for the frames themselves (especially for older ones without lore, and codex paragraphs would be fine imo).
I like that DE is making a whole update/quest focused on TMITW, but I really hope they don't write him into being "just another villain". It would be more interesting (and logical given the spinny dial thing already seems to tie into his favor, at least based on that Jung philosophy vid you did a while ago) to have it be more of a player choice kind of thing. Either way, I imagine we'll get plenty of lore in the new update to pore over.
It's amazing how early many concepts for The Man In The Wall were introduced or at least hinted at.
The story and ideas DE are presenting in Warframe are great and presented in a unique way.
Thanks for making me look and listen more closely :D
Warframes story is shockingly deep, way more than most would think, it’s just buried, but if you’re willing to dig, the rewards are worth it.
quick question , why can't rell say where he is when asked ? i know he says "he's listening" but I'm not sure what that means , why would rell's location be any use to the man in the wall . would really like your input on it . otherwise Great video , can't state enough how much i love your videos . keep em coming and know we live them and we got your back
Most likely because it wasn’t rell at that point, rather, the other… btw, thank you!
So, I got a little tired of the jump scares of the Man in the Wall showing up after a while and I set up floofs to watch where they tend to appear, so far it seems to work.
That's actually pretty smart, lol
@@TheDsIEGE I've heard a single "Hey, kiddo" but not seen them since the floofs started their watch.
can't wait for my brain cell count to increase 10 fold from watching this
Well I hope it blows your mind!
It, in fact, did blow my mind.@@TheDsIEGE
@15:44 This got me thinking. With all the players that this game has and the choices that we have made for the light, twilight or dark, I wonder, if DE is looking at this collective data (aka background metadata) and molding the story around these results. Would the NEW WAR have been different if all players made a choice towards the Dark? Would the Duviri Paradox be more focused on Pleasure, and Peace (and not Anger or Sorrow) if all players chose the light?
If true, It is an interesting concept for game development, allowing the player to adjust the game's story progression through their collective decisions over many years. A matter of not what they wanted... but the choice we made before.
doubt it, the creative themes are centric to the content first before something cosmetic like the yin yang choice dial thing.
My personal theory is that the indifference is trying to split its power to project itself onto our “real world” (our 3d pocket) but the question is,, y tho?
The way i'm not unsettled at all i just get excited LOL guess my wires are crossed
When the zariman ten zero tragedy happen, did wally choose to meet us or he meet all crews including the adults but only the children can handle him ?
*sorry for my bad english
Just us from what we know. The void had made the parents feral. Now... did he have something to do with that? I'd say almost definitely.
@@TheDsIEGE i think there are some correlations between wally vs fears vs tenno(child) vs adults
he seems to be more active
Yeah I fucking love it! Been waiting for some proper lovecraftian horror. The sentients were... fine, but this is better!. ALso it just occured to me xD the 3 choices we get in the warframe quests. The dark, sunny and neutral or .............. or fucking indifferent. Oh god I was always going for neutral option! Oh crap xD
neutral's good tho, I think. I've been picking Sun all the way and Sun is way too emotional, vengeful, a bit egocentric, passionate about stuff but not really about others. in the Sacrifice the Sun option with Umbra basically says Get pissed this jerk destroyed your life, which is not how to properly deal with loss in any way, so yeah, I'd stick by neutral if I were you
Whats the music that plays throughout the video? Perfect choice, set the tone absolutely perfectly.
I’m pretty sure the man in the wall is… I don’t want to use the G word… but he’s pretty Epstein toward the Tenno.
Honestly… I’m already indifferent towards life in general, so it doesn’t bug me. It’s just there to spook you. Just a way a child is dealing with their emotions.
Also I play by ginger rules soooooo I’ve no soul to steal.
LOL... Be careful tenno, that's what he wants you to believe, and you wouldn't be the first to be deceived like that.
I'm all for using example to teach but that was a dick move I panicked and mag dumped a Trumna into some poor Grineer Trooper while playing Gauss when that Kiddo jump scare popped up
I apologize, but you must understand it was for science...
It's for science and respect that
But Regor had to scrap what was left of his brother off the ground with a spoon.
There was more truma rounds than Grineer at that point
The next few clones from that genetic line will still be able to hear the pounding of a Trumna as they come out of the tube.
Also, jokes aside, love your videos and super glad I found you because I've been looking for a warframe lore guy for forever and I plan to watching all your videos with my gf so she can understand and get invested in the warframe story
God, remember when wally was just a funny jumpscare?
The man in the wall as a Lovecrafteam horror figure never landed for me. It just felt like a bad guy who needs to get his ass kicked, the same way the Infested to me just feels like Affinity fodder.
Making a horror figure genuinely terrifying is difficult in a power fantasy game.
I struggle to see the man in the wall as a bad guy, though.
Orokin society reached out to it first, and it reached back. It doesn't really understand humans or life, it simply watches. Then the Orokin built a highway in its living room, yet it still helped the tenno. It's still chasing after Albertec, the person who reached out to it first yet we didn't hold up our end of the deal when it came time to, which amounted to it still trying to understand the person who reached out to it first. If anything, it's the Orokins fault for poking it, and the man in the wall is just reacting
So, odd thing i noticed about the interaction with "hey kiddo" moments and the color filters you can apply to enemies and allies. In my case, the enemies are outlined red and allies are blue. What this has to do with Wally interactions, is that your doppelganger shows up highlighted in ally color highlights. Dunno if this is a glitch, or purposeful. It's interesting though.
That's an interesting little detail... Hmmm... I'll take a look into that, thank you!!
I enjoyed the video quite a bit. I did have a couple observations, though.
tMitW is not indifferent to the Tenno. It is in fact clearly, distinctly interested as evidenced by its incessant drop-ins and interactions.
Back to the ant metaphor, it would be like one of us visiting a specific ant hill every day and finding a specific ant and sometimes...for no particular reason...watching it.
I'm not personally afraid of indifference. It means that I don't rely on being saved, and I don't worry about being arbitrarily hindered.
Rap tap tap
Spooky scary void children, send shivers down my spine
I love ya man, I love your content, and you help me love warframe all the more, but I swear to god the way you pronounce Cthulhu is going to drive me up a wall
Don't blame me, blame the internets...
I love Warframe 😍. It is probably my favorite game. It is a part of my soul in a way.
Mine too
Um actually 🤓 Chtulu is inpronouncable by the human tongue so you're saying it wrong too.🤓🤓🤓
You’re not wrong there.
@4:47 That's GOTTA be a violation!
Had to be said. Horror comes in many forms…. That might be the scariest thing for a great many people over the past few days.
I still prefer to take my pronunciation cues from S.T. Joshi*.
;-)
*Probably the most renowned H.P. Lovecraft scholar.
I made enormous mistake to do chains of harrow at midnight on Friday the 13th in middle of a thunderstorm. I totally set myself up to be physiologically scared
Because of how the question ends I think the indifference and the man in the wall might be different entities
Naaaa screw that edit at 11:30 I’m watching this at 2 am in the dark bro
And at 14:00 bro 💀
Happy Halloween!!!
A Double Walker sounds quite ominous
Is there a way I can replay the mission with rel? That's one of my favorite missions in the game
Yep, just go to the codex and pull up the chains of harrow.