Given the appearance of the dust, I wouldn't be surprised if that machine came out of a newspaper or printing shop since that looks an awful lot like the paper dust I would see accumulate in machines around the printing presses.
Oh maan! Blast from the past at 4.35! That guy with the mullet is Pat Sharp, radio DJ and TV Presenter. I'm from the UK and in the 80s he was all over the pop airwaves and TV! He's still a DJ, but he doesn't have the mullet anymore 😅
The 17” ColorSync and Apple vision monitors have an issue with the analog board that causes a long power up. It will eventually fail. There was a recall on these monitors to correct the issue. Also, the adb port needs to be plugged into the computer to control the alignment and geometry as well you need to have the monitor extension’s installed as well to change the settings in software.
The power pass-through on the Mac was actually specifically to turn on the monitor. Worked like a champ. I never physically turned my monitors on. I just hit the power button on the keyboard. The function is....why would you have the monitor on without the computer on?
The buttons on the front are programmer keys, one to interrupt and one to reset. While it has the same symbol as the power/reset button on the keyboard, on the one on the keyboard will power up a soft-power Mac. The Monitor would have come one without the ADB connected, but with it connected, to save power, the screen was turned off at the same time (the 80s/90s version of CEC/ARC). The later displays that used HD-45 Connector (PowerMacintosh 6100/7100/8100), included ADB and other connections in the cable itself and worked the same way. The ADC connector that Apple used around the turn of the century did USB, Power, and DVI, with the same function, except pushing the power button on the screen would turn on the computer. They even continued it with the Aluminum Displays, Thunderbolt Displays, and the current XDR and Studio Display; They don't come on unless the source is powered, to save power. Although the later ones will power on when not connected to an Apple Source, or through adapters, as the two-way communication isn't there. Given the large numbers of these machines that were sold to the education market, the energy efficiency was of concern, so this auto-sleep/shutdown was was quite common.
@@RetroHackShack The 128K, 512K & 512Ke also have that programmers’ switch. Reset is self-explanatory; but interrupt is something not found on other computers. Pushing it sends a non-maskable interrupt to the CPU, and that brings up either a very minimal ROM monitor, or if it’s installed in the System Folder, the MacsBug debugger - very handy when what you just compiled crashes.
Much less known is that this model and the Mac IIfx used PICS. Those are dedicated I/O processors. IBM mainframes have something similar but they are called channels. Anyway, as I recall, on the fx, only System 6 could used them. System 7 dropped support for the PICS and they became useless. Generally speaking, off-loading I/O meant the CPU would not be burdened with I/O interrupts and would run programs in a smooth and predictable way.
That’s interesting, I’d never heard that before but a quick search shows that the Apple spec sheet/promo blurb talks about how there are ASICs for the I/O just like you said. It looks like there’s some debate over what could use them though over on 68kmla
Pretty sure AAUI was Apple's implementation of AUI (Attachment Unit Interface) which is strictly for Ethernet. In the early Ethernet days the AUI would attach to the transceiver (Medium Attachment Unit) to allow for various physical cabling types to be used, such as 10BASE5 (aka thick), 10BASE2 (aka thin) and 10BASET (twisted pair). Twisted pair took over the desktop ethernet world and RJ45 connectors replaced AUI (and AAUI).
Correct. At this point Ethernet was the emerging standard, but Apple wanted the connectors to be as small as possible so they could reduce the size of their machines. When in doubt, introduce a proprietary connector, even back in the early 90s.
Nice find! This type of setup still goes for silly money, apparently. You're very lucky you picked this up for free, and I'm glad it was saved and not scrapped.
I went to a high school that the computer labs were nothing but Mac IIsi, Mac IIci, Mac IIcx, Mac Centris 700, and Mac Quadra 800 machines. Pressing a single button on the keyboard was easier for us students and didn’t lead to failed power buttons on the systems themselves. School staff even put tape over the power buttons on the Bondi iMacs they got before I graduated so students could only power them up with the keyboards.
Got Doom II to Run on my Macintosh Performa 467 back in the day which had the 68030 @ 33mhz and the ram upgraded to 12MB.Ran horribly slow if you maximized the screen size, but young me didn’t care was happy it ran.
16:29 Can you tell me what function the monitor is supposed to have when the computer is not switched on? Remember this was 1992, it would be confusing to users if the light on the monitor was on when the computer was not. To ordinary users, the monitor *was* the computer.
Interesting! I have the last of the 68000 series. The 840av along with a 2nd spare motherboard. Although I have mice, keyboards and monitors, I don't have the versions that came with the original system.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if my purchases come with the exact original peripheral since people upgrade over time and swap stuff with other systems back when they were using them.
I don't have anything that is not x86 PC, haven't found anything older than a 386 yet at a price I'm willing to pay but at that kind of price you paid I would had taken it home too. Nice video, and channel. I kind of like to watch the experience of people that know how to get around old computers with proper respect even though it doesn't have a super nostalgic value to himself.
I get that part, but why not at least make the LED turn on!!! In general, when you design a product with a button there should be some indicator to let the user know that they have put the component in the right position to function. The button isn't even long enough to know whether it is on or off on this monitor. It's almost like Apple was purposefully trying to frustrate people with this one.
@@RetroHackShack I agree it would be best if there were a standby LED, or at least some indication that the monitor is waiting for a signal to turn on. But, I think it's not unreasonable to keep the screen itself powered down until there's a signal to display. I don't think it's necessarily the most sensible thing to have displays running without a signal, particularly if the horizontal drive circuit lacks a local oscillator and depends on an incoming sync signal for timing, like some of the Apple displays in the past had. It's a little annoying how the early IBM monitors (515x series) just freewheel like an epilepsy trigger when they're not driven by the video card.
the Thunder 24 card in itself probably is worth $500-$1000, those cards are getting incredibly rare though it is missing it's ram so it may not be as valuable with that very hard to find ram installed. With the extra ram installed, those Thunder 24s could display 24-bit color at 1152x870 or as we would call it later "XVGA" resolution though this resolution was almost unheard of on a typical IBM compatible PC in 1991, much less in millions of colors. Later they would release the Thunder IIGX which came in the variety of the 1152 (4 megs of ram), 1360 (6 megs of ram) and 1600 (8 megs of ram) which would allow millions of colors in 1152x870, 1360x1024, and 1600x1200 and when they merged with Radius in 1994, they would release the Thunder IVGX with the same numbers which was even faster. Unlike modern GPUs, these graphics cards were NOT "gaming" cards, as no games made at that time could in any way take advantage of the colors or resolution (maybe some games could be made into larger screens, but for the most part, it was overkill for gaming) but instead was mostly used for Photoshop and video editing and they were often referred to as "photoshop accelerators" at the time as their main purpose was to speed up the rendering of high resolution photographs for editing into Magazines and newsletters.
Depending on the AT computer the pass-through power on the PSU was either switched or not. Maybe the pass-through is switched if that's what you have the monitor hooked to?
With the latest updates to BlueSCSI9(specifically BlueSCSI-v1.1-20221203-STM32F1), the new firmware seems to work very well on the 950. I'm presently using AUX from this without issue. My only issue was getting the termination jumpers setup correctly based on what was set on my internal 300GB drive.
Are they mapped to that part of the keyboard because you would be using your right hand? It is possible this was before the mouse caught on, and were still getting used to it?
You will probably get better performance out of Doom II if you run the display on the built-in video instead of the Thunder/24. In this Machine the built-in video has higher bandwidth to the CPU through a direct line rather than going through the NuBus pipeline to get to that card
The price and dust say practical effects department of a movie production firm. If that makes any sense. Sorry lol. Subscribed also good sir. You will be at 15k in no time!
I had a Quadra 840AV, man that was tough to get in and install cards. This was only about 6 years ago, I had it for an audio project. It was a nice machine though
Power pass through was a convenience feature, but wasn't required to be used. Could always plug into the wall with any monitor I was using, than again I never paid the premium for apple monitors in those days haha
I had a 950 to run A/UX on my 950. It was an incredible Unix workstation. But realistically PowerPC was way faster, just a shame there was no real A/UX on Power, Apple really dropped the ball.
Motorola had been struggling with improving the 68K CPUs for some time. The 68040 never got past 40 MHz, and only then because they overclocked the 33 MHz chips to please Apple, and they ran very hot. The much delayed 68060 was faster, but MacOS wouldn't run on it, and Motorola was already invested in moving to PPC, so Apple moved to that.
@@another3997 You're skipping the 88010's and how that was a total disaster. And they did have MacOS running on those. Motorola screwed up the 68k with the constant incompatibilities, while intel ensured that Windows/386 ran on Pentiums. Motorola introduced so much breakage from the 020 to the 030 all the incompatible math chips, the 040 and yes the 060 further breaking stuff as well. At least we only had the 601 to 603 breaking with the removal of POWER compatibility.
Oh, don't take the cover off when the machine is upright, that's going to break the tiny plastic tabs. The documentation insists to take the cover off only when the machine is resting on the side and the cover lifts up.
Key Off - Always off, cannot turn it on. Key On - You can turn it on, but not off. Key Lock - Whether it is off or on, the power button does nothing. If a server admin wants to make sure a machine stays off or on, they can turn the key to the desired setting and remove it. Techs can't accidentally turn on a machine that is out of order, or turn off a production server.
@@RetroHackShack He was a UK tv presenter of one of my favourite childhood tv shows called Funhouse in the early 90s. Granted, he didn't have the mullet that long for that show. I think he's now a radio DJ.
Did you try powering on the system via the monitor switch, when the 'ignition key' was at the I position? I always found it always very tedious that you had to switch on all PC peripherals separately. (Thats why i liked when they indeed connected like with the 5150 or the Amstrad 1512 or 1640). This is why I never liked PCs. You could also say, why power up the monitor when there is no signal? I could say it is bad design to switch on the monitor when there is no signal. (And it indeed is.)
14:01 - According to the manual, the monitor should have an amber light when plugged into a wall socket. There's no light when plugged directly into the computer. So my guess is that the amber LED is not working.
@@RetroHackShack I've attempted to post this about 20 times in different iterations, but TH-cam keeps preventing me from posting a link or even making a reference to a website. I simply did a search for the monitor name plus the term "user's guide," and it was the second link that came up. Then flip to page 16.
Oh... wait... was this plugged into the computer's PSU? That outlet is probably switched -- at least, it is on the PowerPC 8500/9500. In that case, the monitor isn't even getting power until the PSU is turned on, so obviously you aren't going to get any indication of life. :-)
Concerning the monitor. Remember Apple's whole mantra of "Think Different". In fact, you could almost say the power LED is useless on a modern monitor anyway. Why do I need a little light saying the monitor is working when I can clearly see the image it outputs as "proof" it works. Now, I totally get what you're saying. But this is Apple, after all. Also, you pointed out an ADB cable from the monitor. Does it do the same thing with the LED if that cable is connected or not?
i am surprised that they let you take the machine an ewaste recycling place in my area made it a rule that no electronics may be taken because some local business dropped off a pc and someone took it and called up the business and asked for the password and since then they said no electronics may be taken.
My modern Dell monitors does the same thing. Can be frustrating when trying to get to the BIOS screen. The most frustrating for me is TVs that do that. Can be frustrating when trying to see if retro game console is working or not when the monitor won’t just display the output I selected.
I'm not really a Mac person, but this was a neat bit of history. Thanks! Mac hardware was mostly overpriced and underpowered, but it was much easier to actually use than Windows was, so I was never able to afford one either. The one iMac I've worked on was a real pain in the tuchis to repair, but I got it done after acquiring the proper tools.
I was never a Mac person back then either. One very positive thing they had going for them was when a person purchased any peripheral and connected it to their Mac it worked. No problems. No issues. It just worked. A PC user might get lucky or might have to deal with ports and interrupts and drivers and who knows what kind of problem. Inexpensive had it's costs in different places.
You can use it on other computers, you just don't get the benefit of the ADB port and integrated ColorSync. You'd have to calibrate it manually, which isn't an issue.
This was from an era when the video standards hadn't all coalesced anyway. You have to specifically look for a monitor that was compatible with both Mac and PC. You could blame Apple for not sticking to "standards," but the PC wasn't, and wasn't designed to be, an industry standard from the get-go. It was a product by one company that got cloned and replicated by everyone and their pet turtle, until it became a de-facto standard. It took a while before working groups and forums started to specify what the whole industry should be doing to make their products compatible with each other -- and that's when things like VGA and USB started to show up on Macs as well. In the early PC and Mac days, _everyone_ was doing their own thing. The IBM PC and Macintosh were just two (of MANY) examples of that.
Apple has a LONG history of doing things "their own way" regardless of whether it's a good idea or not. The monitor power button is only one tiny example of this.
Those 2 buttons on the front are Interrupt (top) and Reset (bottom). The Reset button function is obvious but the icon on the button being the same as the power button on the keyboard is confusing since they do 2 different things. The interrupt button was used to open the debugger if you had one installed. If you don't have a debugger installed it brings up a rudimentary debugging/machine monitor interface. Typing "G" and hitting enter will close it. I always thought being able to turn all of your computer (system & display) on with a keyboard press was a feature. While not common in the PC world, plenty of PCs let you plug the monitor into the main system and power them this way. I could be wrong since I don't have one but doesn't the IBM PC 5150 work this way? Anyway, nice find and keep up the good work!
thanks for the info! My issue with the monitor is more on whether the power light should come on when you press the button. I get having a single button to turn on everything is nice, but it looks like the monitor is dead even when plugged straight into an outlet.
IBM PCs had the switched monitor passthrough power on the 5150, XT, and AT. It was mandatory, as IBM's monitors didn't have power switches. I think nearly all of IBM's systems/terminals were all-in-one before the PC, so they kept the single power switch. IBM got rid of it on the PS/2, I think due to cost cutting. Clones got rid of them when the ATX power supply standards came out, those were soft-switched due to sleep requirements and monitors got auto sleep mode at the same time.
@@RetroHackShack Modern Apple and Apple-affiliated monitors (LG UltraFine) have no power light, nor do they have that ugly monitor in standby or that dumb cable disconnected message which keeps the monitor on for 10 minutes when you use your monitor as a laptop dock. You've just become used to the idiot consumer features PCs put in.
Perfect. If they have no switch and no indicator light next to it then that solves the problem I was referring to. The issue is in having a switch that does nothing.
Couple of tips - the built in video will be faster than the graphics card for most stuff because it is straight on the processor bus. Doom is really badly optimised for 68k macs. Have a go with Marathon instead :) Quadra for $10 was an absolute steal. Especially in such good condition. People pay more than 20 times that for one.
@@RetroHackShack It is an extremely good card, and has accelerated drawing routines, does high resolution 24bit... but it just can't shift data about as fast. Excellent for drawing and photoshop (the RAM slots are for GWorld RAM - a sort of graphics buffer. I think Photoshop held off screen parts of an image in it). There is also an optional DSP board for that card. They're quick for an expansion board, just on quadras the built in video was spectacular.
This is a somewhat contentious statement. For 8 Bit/640x480 this is probably true. As resolutions rise and display depth increases, however, native video will dramatically lag behind NuBus cards, especially higher performance ones like the Thunder/24. IIRC this was also dependent on the OS version and how it is setup.
Easy to compare the framerate between the outputs in Doom. I'd be interested to see if the 33mhz connected graphics was slower than a nubus card. It would be quite a suprise.
@@phipli Were you actually alive when these were new, benchmarking them, and using the benchmarks to sell them to well off individuals and institutions? The actual practical performance advantage of these cards specifically, as well as other high end cards from companies like Radius and RasterOps, was well known at the time and sufficient to support an entire industry dedicated to this platform. I wasn't talking about Doom, btw.
I was quite amused that you were wondering if THE MOST POWERFUL MACINTOSH OF 1992 could run a game from 1994 (Doom 2 was pretty much just new content on the Doom 1 engine). I had Doom running on an LC520, a super entry level Mac with a 25 MHz 68030 CPU that's probably half the raw speed of the Quadra 950, so your question was quite amusing indeed.
@@_MaxHeadroom_Actually, back then, it wouldn't be such a stretch for a 2 or 3 year old computer NOT to run the latest games. By this point, the 68040 CPU was getting left behind in performance terms compared to x86, and never progressed beyond 40MHz. RAM was getting faster too. Doom was originally designed to run on a fast x86, and was a demanding game in terms of memory and CPU, as well as bus speeds.
@@another3997 True, CPU speeds increased at a much faster rate back then. But still, it seems obvious that the most powerful computer from a 92 would run a game from a couple years later
It’s NOT bad engineering, and it‘s NOT an Apple feature… You just wired the A/C input of the monitor through the A/C output of the Quadra‘s power supply. That only gives out power when the Mac is turned on, so the monitor cannot turn on without, obviously. That was a quite common thing, also with DOS/Windows PCs, at the time. Many screens did not have soft off back then, so you had to turn them off by hand, after you shut down the computer, or they would be left fully powered on. By wiring the power for the screen through the computer‘s PSU, you could leave the monitor turned on, and it would be automatically turned on and off with the computer. It is important to note, that this is NOT an Apple exclusive feature/quirk. Nearly every PC at the time had that power outlet for monitors, they died out with the rise of soft power off features on screens and the switch from AT to ATX power supplies on PCs. You could, by the way, always plug a different power cable into the monitor, that plugged directly into the mains, if you didn‘t like that feature. That way the monitor would have behaved as you would have expected.
That is a good guess, but you are incorrect. I was connected directly to AC power. My issue is with the LED that doesn't indicate that there is power present when connected directly to AC power.
Nice guest appearance by Pat Sharp there! Famous, not only for the sheer length of his bleach-wracked mullet, but for keeping it til 1994! He's got over it now though.
Sorry, but you can't pin the monitor-does-not-power-on thing solely on Apple. I've seen plenty of PC monitors that do the same thing. Basically it's a sort of "stand by" low power mode that the monitor goes into if it doesn't detect a video signal. Some of them would indicate this "standby" state in some way (usually by flashing the power light, or lighting it up in a different color.) But I've seen plenty of monitors that don't indicate this state at all, and just appear dead to the world. This was before OSD's (on screen displays) were commonplace of course; nowadays monitors usually indicate "power on, but no signal" by putting up a "no signal" message of some sort. P.s.: I'm disappointed in you that you didn't use the "Hey, I know this! It's UNIX!" scene from Jurassic Park when you were talking about A/UX. (Yeah ok, I guess that was a Quadra 700 and not a 950. Still would have fit pretty neatly into the A/UX discussion though, imho. :-) )
@@RetroHackShack i give you a hint sir That karaoke machine you owned, it is sold in the Philippines The brand originally came from South Korea with the initial letters of KY
I can't see how you wired the monitor, but if you connected it to the power supply of the Mac it's absolutely normal that it doesn't get any power until the Mac is turned on.
@@RetroHackShack Did you plug it into the power supply? If yes then it's absolutely reasonable. You remember the AT power supplies with the same connector for Monitors back that time? The output on that also only worked when you flipped the power switch. This machine predates ATX by the way and ATX did not have the monitor plug any longer because of the power draw issues coming with later machines. The behavior of the Mac power supply prevents your fuse from flipping when using a monitor with high power draw on power up. I would have loved to have that by that time because the fuse for the power circuit in my room always flipped when I powered on my PC and I forgot to switch of the monitor before turning on the PC. 🙂 That's great electrical engineering. You should still see the green LED on when connecting it directly with a mains power cable.
@@RetroHackShack me and my two partners have our own designs. "Satanic Mac Club" is our dev group. th-cam.com/video/Xg1o1rJeI98/w-d-xo.html You can see them in my video here ;)
Given the appearance of the dust, I wouldn't be surprised if that machine came out of a newspaper or printing shop since that looks an awful lot like the paper dust I would see accumulate in machines around the printing presses.
Interesting
I agree with this.
The first times I really used Macs and zip drives were in some old printing shops.
I think you are right (I worked in the 90s in a copy shop :-) )
Oh maan! Blast from the past at 4.35! That guy with the mullet is Pat Sharp, radio DJ and TV Presenter. I'm from the UK and in the 80s he was all over the pop airwaves and TV! He's still a DJ, but he doesn't have the mullet anymore 😅
Lol
A man of culture
The 17” ColorSync and Apple vision monitors have an issue with the analog board that causes a long power up. It will eventually fail. There was a recall on these monitors to correct the issue. Also, the adb port needs to be plugged into the computer to control the alignment and geometry as well you need to have the monitor extension’s installed as well to change the settings in software.
I wish we had an e waste place locally, the closest we have is the dump where goodwill has a setup for e waste but they don’t allow scavenging.
That's really too bad. Why not let people reuse stuff first before it is scrapped?
Not all e waste companies are equal. Our e waste place sorts out all the good stuff and puts it into a retail store.
so much waste, so much that could be fairly easily fixed
The power pass-through on the Mac was actually specifically to turn on the monitor. Worked like a champ. I never physically turned my monitors on. I just hit the power button on the keyboard. The function is....why would you have the monitor on without the computer on?
Pcs had it as well, i didnt get his applebashing as well
i never thought i'd hear someone excited to see a mac give the question mark
I don't know about you, but for me, all bongs make me pretty happy...🤣
$10 for a Quadra 950 even in poor condition is a steal, wow!
The buttons on the front are programmer keys, one to interrupt and one to reset. While it has the same symbol as the power/reset button on the keyboard, on the one on the keyboard will power up a soft-power Mac. The Monitor would have come one without the ADB connected, but with it connected, to save power, the screen was turned off at the same time (the 80s/90s version of CEC/ARC). The later displays that used HD-45 Connector (PowerMacintosh 6100/7100/8100), included ADB and other connections in the cable itself and worked the same way. The ADC connector that Apple used around the turn of the century did USB, Power, and DVI, with the same function, except pushing the power button on the screen would turn on the computer. They even continued it with the Aluminum Displays, Thunderbolt Displays, and the current XDR and Studio Display; They don't come on unless the source is powered, to save power. Although the later ones will power on when not connected to an Apple Source, or through adapters, as the two-way communication isn't there. Given the large numbers of these machines that were sold to the education market, the energy efficiency was of concern, so this auto-sleep/shutdown was was quite common.
Thanks it seems the Mac plus has these same symbols. I never realized that.
@@RetroHackShack The 128K, 512K & 512Ke also have that programmers’ switch. Reset is self-explanatory; but interrupt is something not found on other computers. Pushing it sends a non-maskable interrupt to the CPU, and that brings up either a very minimal ROM monitor, or if it’s installed in the System Folder, the MacsBug debugger - very handy when what you just compiled crashes.
Much less known is that this model and the Mac IIfx used PICS. Those are dedicated I/O processors. IBM mainframes have something similar but they are called channels. Anyway, as I recall, on the fx, only System 6 could used them. System 7 dropped support for the PICS and they became useless. Generally speaking, off-loading I/O meant the CPU would not be burdened with I/O interrupts and would run programs in a smooth and predictable way.
That’s interesting, I’d never heard that before but a quick search shows that the Apple spec sheet/promo blurb talks about how there are ASICs for the I/O just like you said. It looks like there’s some debate over what could use them though over on 68kmla
We had one of these at our company in the mid 90s. We did video digitization work from Sony betacam SP decks.
Cool!
Pretty sure AAUI was Apple's implementation of AUI (Attachment Unit Interface) which is strictly for Ethernet. In the early Ethernet days the AUI would attach to the transceiver (Medium Attachment Unit) to allow for various physical cabling types to be used, such as 10BASE5 (aka thick), 10BASE2 (aka thin) and 10BASET (twisted pair). Twisted pair took over the desktop ethernet world and RJ45 connectors replaced AUI (and AAUI).
Correct. At this point Ethernet was the emerging standard, but Apple wanted the connectors to be as small as possible so they could reduce the size of their machines. When in doubt, introduce a proprietary connector, even back in the early 90s.
Only $20! That's insane. How do you find this stuff? My local e-waste doesn't have anything interesting like that.
I'm very lucky. I also bring the ewaste workers donuts!
bought one of those new, paid 5k for it with no ram or hd, and was happy to get it. good machine for the day.
BEAUTIFUL machine. The front.
Nice find! This type of setup still goes for silly money, apparently. You're very lucky you picked this up for free, and I'm glad it was saved and not scrapped.
I went to a high school that the computer labs were nothing but Mac IIsi, Mac IIci, Mac IIcx, Mac Centris 700, and Mac Quadra 800 machines. Pressing a single button on the keyboard was easier for us students and didn’t lead to failed power buttons on the systems themselves.
School staff even put tape over the power buttons on the Bondi iMacs they got before I graduated so students could only power them up with the keyboards.
I just found your channel. Great content. I like how you don't edit out your errors, but give a text correction.
Thanks
Damn, I wish I had an e-waste store in my city, I'd blow a lot of coin there.
That can be a real problem. The hack shack is too full at the moment!
Got Doom II to Run on my Macintosh Performa 467 back in the day which had the 68030 @ 33mhz and the ram upgraded to 12MB.Ran horribly slow if you maximized the screen size, but young me didn’t care was happy it ran.
16:29 Can you tell me what function the monitor is supposed to have when the computer is not switched on?
Remember this was 1992, it would be confusing to users if the light on the monitor was on when the computer was not. To ordinary users, the monitor *was* the computer.
Aren't stimpacks supposed to work instantly in Doom II?
Hey, TH-cam Comments! The 1990s called, they want their Mac vs. PC arguments back.
Haha! No kidding, huh?
I had a couple of these beasts that ran the Avid Media Composer back in the mid ninties! They were kickin' machines, back then indeed!
I got the avid cards but no dongle
Interesting! I have the last of the 68000 series. The 840av along with a 2nd spare motherboard. Although I have mice, keyboards and monitors, I don't have the versions that came with the original system.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if my purchases come with the exact original peripheral since people upgrade over time and swap stuff with other systems back when they were using them.
I don't have anything that is not x86 PC, haven't found anything older than a 386 yet at a price I'm willing to pay but at that kind of price you paid I would had taken it home too.
Nice video, and channel. I kind of like to watch the experience of people that know how to get around old computers with proper respect even though it doesn't have a super nostalgic value to himself.
Glad you liked it
It's good engineering because it's one button to turn everything on at once instead of having to power on a bunch of things separately.
I get that part, but why not at least make the LED turn on!!! In general, when you design a product with a button there should be some indicator to let the user know that they have put the component in the right position to function. The button isn't even long enough to know whether it is on or off on this monitor. It's almost like Apple was purposefully trying to frustrate people with this one.
@@RetroHackShack IMO it should send the power button signal over ADB as if you'd pressed the one on keyboard
He is PC guy. They love crap.
@@RetroHackShack I agree it would be best if there were a standby LED, or at least some indication that the monitor is waiting for a signal to turn on.
But, I think it's not unreasonable to keep the screen itself powered down until there's a signal to display. I don't think it's necessarily the most sensible thing to have displays running without a signal, particularly if the horizontal drive circuit lacks a local oscillator and depends on an incoming sync signal for timing, like some of the Apple displays in the past had.
It's a little annoying how the early IBM monitors (515x series) just freewheel like an epilepsy trigger when they're not driven by the video card.
the Thunder 24 card in itself probably is worth $500-$1000, those cards are getting incredibly rare though it is missing it's ram so it may not be as valuable with that very hard to find ram installed. With the extra ram installed, those Thunder 24s could display 24-bit color at 1152x870 or as we would call it later "XVGA" resolution though this resolution was almost unheard of on a typical IBM compatible PC in 1991, much less in millions of colors. Later they would release the Thunder IIGX which came in the variety of the 1152 (4 megs of ram), 1360 (6 megs of ram) and 1600 (8 megs of ram) which would allow millions of colors in 1152x870, 1360x1024, and 1600x1200 and when they merged with Radius in 1994, they would release the Thunder IVGX with the same numbers which was even faster. Unlike modern GPUs, these graphics cards were NOT "gaming" cards, as no games made at that time could in any way take advantage of the colors or resolution (maybe some games could be made into larger screens, but for the most part, it was overkill for gaming) but instead was mostly used for Photoshop and video editing and they were often referred to as "photoshop accelerators" at the time as their main purpose was to speed up the rendering of high resolution photographs for editing into Magazines and newsletters.
Depending on the AT computer the pass-through power on the PSU was either switched or not. Maybe the pass-through is switched if that's what you have the monitor hooked to?
That's a good guess but no. It was plugged directly to AC.
A montage of the cleaning would have been cool to see
i really like that machine!
With the latest updates to BlueSCSI9(specifically BlueSCSI-v1.1-20221203-STM32F1), the new firmware seems to work very well on the 950. I'm presently using AUX from this without issue. My only issue was getting the termination jumpers setup correctly based on what was set on my internal 300GB drive.
Good to know! I have a bluescsi 2 I need to test out.
Are they mapped to that part of the keyboard because you would be using your right hand? It is possible this was before the mouse caught on, and were still getting used to it?
You will probably get better performance out of Doom II if you run the display on the built-in video instead of the Thunder/24. In this Machine the built-in video has higher bandwidth to the CPU through a direct line rather than going through the NuBus pipeline to get to that card
Thanks
I wish I had a drive emulator like that
Wow, Apples memory hefty expansion price plan started way back. But where's the dongles?
The monitor doesn't turn on until it detects a signal. The computer outputs one when it's able. Not sure what the issue is.
I'm pretty sure all Macs after about 1989 had built-in video, so there's no need to use the Supermac card if it's indeed what is causing issues.
Silverlining’s publisher LaCie is pronounced “la-SEE.”
Cool. I had no idea. Now, how do you pronounce "Hazeltine"?
@@RetroHackShack You guys missed the perfect opportunity for a joke. :(
Cory: It's pronounced "la-SEE"
Retro: Oh, I see.
Cory: No, no, _LA_ see.
The price and dust say practical effects department of a movie production firm. If that makes any sense. Sorry lol. Subscribed also good sir. You will be at 15k in no time!
Thank you for the sub!
nice i wish i knew of an e waste place near me but oh well loved the video anyways thx for the video
Glad you liked the video. I am super lucky to have a place like this near me!
agreed i loved the video i always love vintage computers especially macs
I had a Quadra 840AV, man that was tough to get in and install cards. This was only about 6 years ago, I had it for an audio project. It was a nice machine though
Did not expect to see Pat Sharpe today...
Power pass through was a convenience feature, but wasn't required to be used. Could always plug into the wall with any monitor I was using, than again I never paid the premium for apple monitors in those days haha
I wasn't using power pass through. The led should have done something when the power button was depressed.
@@RetroHackShack interesting, as previously mentioned by another here, it's likely the monitor control board is actually going bad than.
I am going to check that out.
Whats ewaste? Ive been looking for this machine for a while! Hopefully they have those in nj!
I had a 950 to run A/UX on my 950. It was an incredible Unix workstation. But realistically PowerPC was way faster, just a shame there was no real A/UX on Power, Apple really dropped the ball.
Motorola had been struggling with improving the 68K CPUs for some time. The 68040 never got past 40 MHz, and only then because they overclocked the 33 MHz chips to please Apple, and they ran very hot. The much delayed 68060 was faster, but MacOS wouldn't run on it, and Motorola was already invested in moving to PPC, so Apple moved to that.
@@another3997 You're skipping the 88010's and how that was a total disaster. And they did have MacOS running on those. Motorola screwed up the 68k with the constant incompatibilities, while intel ensured that Windows/386 ran on Pentiums. Motorola introduced so much breakage from the 020 to the 030 all the incompatible math chips, the 040 and yes the 060 further breaking stuff as well. At least we only had the 601 to 603 breaking with the removal of POWER compatibility.
Oh, don't take the cover off when the machine is upright, that's going to break the tiny plastic tabs. The documentation insists to take the cover off only when the machine is resting on the side and the cover lifts up.
Key Off - Always off, cannot turn it on.
Key On - You can turn it on, but not off.
Key Lock - Whether it is off or on, the power button does nothing.
If a server admin wants to make sure a machine stays off or on, they can turn the key to the desired setting and remove it. Techs can't accidentally turn on a machine that is out of order, or turn off a production server.
That's a picture of Pat Sharp with the mullet.
Who is pat sharp?
@@RetroHackShack He was a UK tv presenter of one of my favourite childhood tv shows called Funhouse in the early 90s. Granted, he didn't have the mullet that long for that show. I think he's now a radio DJ.
Cool. Thanks
Doom was developed on 68k-powered Next machines.
Doom also runs well on my LC 475 with a 25 MHz 68040
Also, if you have so much Apple angst, I'll gladly pay you $50 plus shipping for that computer and you won't have to deal with it anymore. ;-)
It’s probably in full page view. I had a beige g3 with the full page view monitor that was in that same orientation.
Did you try powering on the system via the monitor switch, when the 'ignition key' was at the I position?
I always found it always very tedious that you had to switch on all PC peripherals separately. (Thats why i liked when they indeed connected like with the 5150 or the Amstrad 1512 or 1640). This is why I never liked PCs.
You could also say, why power up the monitor when there is no signal?
I could say it is bad design to switch on the monitor when there is no signal. (And it indeed is.)
14:01 - According to the manual, the monitor should have an amber light when plugged into a wall socket. There's no light when plugged directly into the computer. So my guess is that the amber LED is not working.
Ah. I did not see this in the manual. If correct this changes my whole rant. I will have to look into this. Thanks!
Which manual are you looking at? Can you send me a link so I can see if it is different than the one I found?
@@RetroHackShack I've attempted to post this about 20 times in different iterations, but TH-cam keeps preventing me from posting a link or even making a reference to a website. I simply did a search for the monitor name plus the term "user's guide," and it was the second link that came up. Then flip to page 16.
Thanks for trying
Oh... wait... was this plugged into the computer's PSU? That outlet is probably switched -- at least, it is on the PowerPC 8500/9500. In that case, the monitor isn't even getting power until the PSU is turned on, so obviously you aren't going to get any indication of life. :-)
Concerning the monitor. Remember Apple's whole mantra of "Think Different". In fact, you could almost say the power LED is useless on a modern monitor anyway. Why do I need a little light saying the monitor is working when I can clearly see the image it outputs as "proof" it works. Now, I totally get what you're saying. But this is Apple, after all. Also, you pointed out an ADB cable from the monitor. Does it do the same thing with the LED if that cable is connected or not?
Yes. Same with it connected.
Because if the power LED is on, but there is no image, that is a failure mode
i am surprised that they let you take the machine an ewaste recycling place in my area made it a rule that no electronics may be taken because some local business dropped off a pc and someone took it and called up the business and asked for the password and since then they said no electronics may be taken.
My modern Dell monitors does the same thing. Can be frustrating when trying to get to the BIOS screen. The most frustrating for me is TVs that do that. Can be frustrating when trying to see if retro game console is working or not when the monitor won’t just display the output I selected.
So jealous, this exact machine is my white whale. I had one years ago and I regret ewasting it.
Maybe this is yours
What is AFI supposed to mean? At first? Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the idea...go e--waste hunting.
needed to go learn by acting!
Mulletosh!
Love it
I'm not really a Mac person, but this was a neat bit of history. Thanks! Mac hardware was mostly overpriced and underpowered, but it was much easier to actually use than Windows was, so I was never able to afford one either. The one iMac I've worked on was a real pain in the tuchis to repair, but I got it done after acquiring the proper tools.
I was never a Mac person back then either. One very positive thing they had going for them was when a person purchased any peripheral and connected it to their Mac it worked. No problems. No issues. It just worked. A PC user might get lucky or might have to deal with ports and interrupts and drivers and who knows what kind of problem. Inexpensive had it's costs in different places.
True. I am finding that very convenient.
Apple is way too expensive for nothing
If you have to ask, you're not Apple enough. The solution is buy more Apple.
Who throws a QUADRA in the trash ?!?!?
needs a faster cpu and memory upgrade
I hated this too interesting and informative 🤔
It serves Apple as it prevents buyers from using the monitor on any other system.
You can use it on other computers, you just don't get the benefit of the ADB port and integrated ColorSync. You'd have to calibrate it manually, which isn't an issue.
This was from an era when the video standards hadn't all coalesced anyway. You have to specifically look for a monitor that was compatible with both Mac and PC. You could blame Apple for not sticking to "standards," but the PC wasn't, and wasn't designed to be, an industry standard from the get-go. It was a product by one company that got cloned and replicated by everyone and their pet turtle, until it became a de-facto standard. It took a while before working groups and forums started to specify what the whole industry should be doing to make their products compatible with each other -- and that's when things like VGA and USB started to show up on Macs as well.
In the early PC and Mac days, _everyone_ was doing their own thing. The IBM PC and Macintosh were just two (of MANY) examples of that.
@@nickwallette6201 I'd say by '92 the PC HAD become a standard already...
Apple has a LONG history of doing things "their own way" regardless of whether it's a good idea or not. The monitor power button is only one tiny example of this.
"This is why I hate Apple" LMAO ! (Doesn't know how to use Apple) one button power-up was standard.
I'll unsubscribe myself now ...
Their engineering hasn't improved
News Flash : crApple are still overpriced for what you get. LOL.
All Apple stuff is expensive for what you get, still is now in 2023.
nice video there got a ? for you I have a truck load of the CRT's and dont have a mac to use them with they work on pc
Those 2 buttons on the front are Interrupt (top) and Reset (bottom). The Reset button function is obvious but the icon on the button being the same as the power button on the keyboard is confusing since they do 2 different things. The interrupt button was used to open the debugger if you had one installed. If you don't have a debugger installed it brings up a rudimentary debugging/machine monitor interface. Typing "G" and hitting enter will close it.
I always thought being able to turn all of your computer (system & display) on with a keyboard press was a feature. While not common in the PC world, plenty of PCs let you plug the monitor into the main system and power them this way. I could be wrong since I don't have one but doesn't the IBM PC 5150 work this way?
Anyway, nice find and keep up the good work!
thanks for the info! My issue with the monitor is more on whether the power light should come on when you press the button. I get having a single button to turn on everything is nice, but it looks like the monitor is dead even when plugged straight into an outlet.
@@RetroHackShack if it crashes you can press the interupt button and type "g finder" and it will return to the desktop
IBM PCs had the switched monitor passthrough power on the 5150, XT, and AT. It was mandatory, as IBM's monitors didn't have power switches. I think nearly all of IBM's systems/terminals were all-in-one before the PC, so they kept the single power switch. IBM got rid of it on the PS/2, I think due to cost cutting. Clones got rid of them when the ATX power supply standards came out, those were soft-switched due to sleep requirements and monitors got auto sleep mode at the same time.
@@RetroHackShack Modern Apple and Apple-affiliated monitors (LG UltraFine) have no power light, nor do they have that ugly monitor in standby or that dumb cable disconnected message which keeps the monitor on for 10 minutes when you use your monitor as a laptop dock. You've just become used to the idiot consumer features PCs put in.
Perfect. If they have no switch and no indicator light next to it then that solves the problem I was referring to. The issue is in having a switch that does nothing.
Doom for Mac is a horrible port with no optimisation and should never be used for performance benchmarking.
Couple of tips - the built in video will be faster than the graphics card for most stuff because it is straight on the processor bus. Doom is really badly optimised for 68k macs. Have a go with Marathon instead :)
Quadra for $10 was an absolute steal. Especially in such good condition. People pay more than 20 times that for one.
What would you use the expensive video card for then. CAD?
@@RetroHackShack It is an extremely good card, and has accelerated drawing routines, does high resolution 24bit... but it just can't shift data about as fast. Excellent for drawing and photoshop (the RAM slots are for GWorld RAM - a sort of graphics buffer. I think Photoshop held off screen parts of an image in it). There is also an optional DSP board for that card. They're quick for an expansion board, just on quadras the built in video was spectacular.
This is a somewhat contentious statement. For 8 Bit/640x480 this is probably true. As resolutions rise and display depth increases, however, native video will dramatically lag behind NuBus cards, especially higher performance ones like the Thunder/24. IIRC this was also dependent on the OS version and how it is setup.
Easy to compare the framerate between the outputs in Doom. I'd be interested to see if the 33mhz connected graphics was slower than a nubus card. It would be quite a suprise.
@@phipli Were you actually alive when these were new, benchmarking them, and using the benchmarks to sell them to well off individuals and institutions? The actual practical performance advantage of these cards specifically, as well as other high end cards from companies like Radius and RasterOps, was well known at the time and sufficient to support an entire industry dedicated to this platform. I wasn't talking about Doom, btw.
I was quite amused that you were wondering if THE MOST POWERFUL MACINTOSH OF 1992 could run a game from 1994 (Doom 2 was pretty much just new content on the Doom 1 engine). I had Doom running on an LC520, a super entry level Mac with a 25 MHz 68030 CPU that's probably half the raw speed of the Quadra 950, so your question was quite amusing indeed.
lol I had a Performa 575 (which is just the 040 version of yours) and used to love running Ultimate Doom on it, so I had the same reaction
Yeah I was just thinking it doesn't seem like much of a stretch for a computer from 92 to run a game from 95
@@_MaxHeadroom_Actually, back then, it wouldn't be such a stretch for a 2 or 3 year old computer NOT to run the latest games. By this point, the 68040 CPU was getting left behind in performance terms compared to x86, and never progressed beyond 40MHz. RAM was getting faster too. Doom was originally designed to run on a fast x86, and was a demanding game in terms of memory and CPU, as well as bus speeds.
@@another3997 True, CPU speeds increased at a much faster rate back then. But still, it seems obvious that the most powerful computer from a 92 would run a game from a couple years later
Did you launch Doom 2 at 1024x768? Probably why it ran so slow. Need to set the Mac to the lowest resolution it supports.
Yeah. It actually changed the resolution for me when I started it.
It’s NOT bad engineering, and it‘s NOT an Apple feature… You just wired the A/C input of the monitor through the A/C output of the Quadra‘s power supply. That only gives out power when the Mac is turned on, so the monitor cannot turn on without, obviously. That was a quite common thing, also with DOS/Windows PCs, at the time. Many screens did not have soft off back then, so you had to turn them off by hand, after you shut down the computer, or they would be left fully powered on. By wiring the power for the screen through the computer‘s PSU, you could leave the monitor turned on, and it would be automatically turned on and off with the computer. It is important to note, that this is NOT an Apple exclusive feature/quirk. Nearly every PC at the time had that power outlet for monitors, they died out with the rise of soft power off features on screens and the switch from AT to ATX power supplies on PCs. You could, by the way, always plug a different power cable into the monitor, that plugged directly into the mains, if you didn‘t like that feature. That way the monitor would have behaved as you would have expected.
That is a good guess, but you are incorrect. I was connected directly to AC power. My issue is with the LED that doesn't indicate that there is power present when connected directly to AC power.
Overpriced to the extreme! You could buy a car and put a down payment on a house for the price of this machine maxed out!
Imagine spending ten grand on one of these things, and then less than a year later the PowerPC comes out.
Also, if you lowered the screen resolution, Doom would run faster.
i'd love to find a place over by me (daytona florida) wonder if you could help with that sort of stuff?
I just search on Google maps. It still took me about a year before finding this place since they were closed for COVID.
Nice guest appearance by Pat Sharp there! Famous, not only for the sheer length of his bleach-wracked mullet, but for keeping it til 1994! He's got over it now though.
😁
Sorry, but you can't pin the monitor-does-not-power-on thing solely on Apple. I've seen plenty of PC monitors that do the same thing. Basically it's a sort of "stand by" low power mode that the monitor goes into if it doesn't detect a video signal. Some of them would indicate this "standby" state in some way (usually by flashing the power light, or lighting it up in a different color.) But I've seen plenty of monitors that don't indicate this state at all, and just appear dead to the world. This was before OSD's (on screen displays) were commonplace of course; nowadays monitors usually indicate "power on, but no signal" by putting up a "no signal" message of some sort.
P.s.: I'm disappointed in you that you didn't use the "Hey, I know this! It's UNIX!" scene from Jurassic Park when you were talking about A/UX. (Yeah ok, I guess that was a Quadra 700 and not a 950. Still would have fit pretty neatly into the A/UX discussion though, imho. :-) )
I forgot that it was a Quadra. Cool!
I'd have it set up as a UNIX workstation with a large SCSI disk.
I ran A/UX on mine. It was beyond awesome!
Hi
Can you make a video of your karaoke machine that sitting on the left side? 😁
Yeah. I don't know much about it though.
@@RetroHackShack i give you a hint sir
That karaoke machine you owned, it is sold in the Philippines
The brand originally came from South Korea with the initial letters of KY
Wow! That is honestly a remarkable find for $20... congrats!
Thanks!
I've never even heard of these before! Seriously, I can scarcely wait for each episode of yours. Definitely highlights of the week.
Thanks
@@RetroHackShack You're welcome.
I Like your video. Thanks!
You are welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.
I can't see how you wired the monitor, but if you connected it to the power supply of the Mac it's absolutely normal that it doesn't get any power until the Mac is turned on.
I know it's "normal" for Apple, but I hate that. At least turn on the led so I know that the power is good.
@@RetroHackShack Did you plug it into the power supply?
If yes then it's absolutely reasonable. You remember the AT power supplies with the same connector for Monitors back that time? The output on that also only worked when you flipped the power switch. This machine predates ATX by the way and ATX did not have the monitor plug any longer because of the power draw issues coming with later machines.
The behavior of the Mac power supply prevents your fuse from flipping when using a monitor with high power draw on power up. I would have loved to have that by that time because the fuse for the power circuit in my room always flipped when I powered on my PC and I forgot to switch of the monitor before turning on the PC. 🙂
That's great electrical engineering.
You should still see the green LED on when connecting it directly with a mains power cable.
Nope. Plugged it directly into the outlet. Not like a PC AT in this case although that is a reasonable guess since I could have done it that way.
What are the odds that you find a DOOM II CD in that drive. It's like it's asking you to see if it can run Doom.
Here in the netherlands ewaste is as inaccessible as stairs to someone in a wheelchair
Theres nothing like ewaste places here in Alabama. Sucks
Best startup sound either, the current one is like a cross between this one and the everything from the late 90's and into the 2000's
Man $20 I need to get to ewaste some time. Fantastic.
Yes. Indeed. I have found that ewaste places are all different. Not all of them even allow you to buy anything.
Can't believe that was in the scrap! My ultimate unicorn.
I built 16 of my own 30p 16mb Simms in preparation already!
Did you design your own PCBs for them or use someone elses? I have been thinking of making some myself.
@@RetroHackShack me and my two partners have our own designs. "Satanic Mac Club" is our dev group.
th-cam.com/video/Xg1o1rJeI98/w-d-xo.html
You can see them in my video here ;)