God's peace be with, you have introduced me to symbolism which almost miraculously changed my world view, I read books and understand furthermore enjoy them I'm deeply grateful to you. Even so I say there's a lot you haven't covered upon, like greek mythology which is a fountain of symbolism, I really hope you do so and help many understand 🙏🙏🙏 thank you for all your work
Hi Jonathan, huge fan of yours despite only relatively recently discovering your content. As an Anglican of the “high church” variety you’ve sparked an incredible interest in and respect for the Orthodox Church. God bless you and keep up the amazing content.
@@gofish7388 I suppose I’ve always been interested in other denominations (even when I was an atheist) the differences and the unique beauty of them in some part fascinates me. I think it was ether a TH-cam short with him in or someone taking about “orthodox influencers” and once I realised he wasn’t a “the catholics are wrong on everything and here’s why” kinda guy I was interested more. At this point I think the west needs to more past a lot of minor issues when it comes to denominations and focus more on insuring that Christianity still has a solid foothold in Europe. I always said , better an orthodox Jerusalem then a Jewish one, better a catholic Spain then a Muslim one. What about yourself?
@@caleb116 lol. Guess we’ll see where God takes me but good for you it’s has a beautiful tradition and imo undeniably is the most authentic to the original Christian churches. God bless you and the Greek orthodox community
@@educationalporpoises9592 your username and profile photo were the first things I chuckled at today. It's all going to be stuck in my head for the rest of the day. Thanks for that, and have a great day! 😊
In arch school, we studied the evolution of the church building and the use of the arch. At school it was described as the tool by which they could open up the expanse of the building. The stone ceiling seemed to float. It was shock and awe. With the gothic floor plan, one entered on the East with the sun. As one walked towards the alter in west, the stone columns marked time, until you reach the apse, where Christ welcomes you. But to get to Him, there above you in heaven, you must pass the alter symbolizing death.
I love the acknowledgement of the need to maintain and accept tension. A lot of religious conflict in history results when people try to oversimplify worship and arrive at a conclusion by condemning things once and for all just to give us peace of mind from false dichotomies that we shouldn’t really be wanting to embrace.
wow. this talk was really enlightening and inspiring, and tied many threads together in my mind from previous knowledge of Indigenous cultures and much more. I really love the topics you choose and how you lay them out in religious yet neutral/ symbolic language. Blessings
Thank you, for all you have stepped forward to do in these times. I so value and appreciate your thoughtful presentation of such sacred, beautiful work 🙏
Along with the cornerstone, the equal wedge shaped tiles that build the rest of the archway are called "voussoirs". I learnt how to do this when doing my tiling trade. I dont get to use this skill much, which is a shame.
Brilliant! A supreme “symbolism happens“ moment for me was recognizing that my own home church, like many large, traditional Western churches, symbolized a prone human body: rounded apse with a high altar tabernacle (the mind) and a lower center altar for HC (the heart) which we, the body, circumambulated each Sunday in coming together with Christ our Head. Since that “heart” was flanked not only by transept arms, but also two nodes- lectern and pulpit - from which the milk of God‘s word (Luke 11:27-28) was given, and since the baptismal font was prominently placed “toward the feet” it was obviously a female body- the bride- represented in the vertical plane as coming together with Christ in the Divine Service. Come to think of it, the high arch which set off the chancel and apse from the nave had a decorative capstone/keystone marked with the chi-rho. I imbibed all that as a kid and it’s still with me today. So cool!
Very interesting discussion! The arch was a Roman invention for spanning larger distances when building with masonry materials; there was no steel or modern concrete at the time. No arches are found in the ancient Jewish tabernacle, synagogue, or temple in which Jesus himself taught. The symbolism was more about the center within the center or the Holy of Holies. Ancient Greek temple architecture on the Acropolis like the Parthenon used exaggerated forms (intentionally incorrect) to symbolize the Platonic perfection of the place of the gods when viewed by human eyes. Ancient Egyptian architecture attempted to bring immortality and glory to the pharaohs who claimed to be gods and seemed to like triangles… Ancient pagan architecture like Stonehenge was an attempt to strengthen our connection with nature or their understanding of a deity. Stonehenge does happen to be oriented as a circle. But without a ceiling. It is an ongoing challenge for architects to depict Heaven on Earth. What symbol’s resonate with believers today and for all time? What implications for sacred architecture are there in Jesus’s idea that believers are his temple now? The veil was torn? There is no more Holy of Holies? The Holy Spirit resides in us now. No longer represented by the smoke from an alter, or the light from a candle. It is impossible to contain new wine in old wineskins forever, and it is controversial to create new wineskins in which new wine desperately needs to age.
Thank you for this video Jonathan. And for the skateboarding one. There's been multiple eye opening moments in your videos for me and I actually feel like I'm learning something interesting that I can pay attention to for a longer time
@@alandiaz5184 i find it's really hard to find books which explain this sort of stuff the way JP does. They tend to get stuck on the technical or are too basic. Id love to know some suggestions.
Watch the Australian program on SBS ; Structures of Marvel; Medieval Paris. A detailed explanation about the building of Sainte-Chapelle and The Conciergerie. Also an explanation about the powers of Kings, Money, Architects and and the reason of building the Chapelle; “The Crown Of Thorns” ( bought for an enormous amount by the King to upgrade his importance)
Dr. Pageau: I would love to introduce you to the methods of astrological interpretation, which you may not know you touch upon in this video towards the end, around the ancient greek astrological doctrines of house rulership. That is, when one Planet is charged in providing for another when in their sign. Much how Venus (Lucifer)’s behavior changes based on these matters, but especially how this doctrine relates to the christian concepts of hospitality, as enshrined in the “hospitality of Abraham.”
very interesting stuff. a lot of parallels to kaballah and khemetic thought, as expressed partially through theosophy as well as surviving bronze and iron age manuscripts. nice to see a christian who has an appreciation for sacred form and even fractals. a rare gift.
@JonathanPageau I'd love for you to do some analysis of Gothic architecture in the terms of its own builders and defenders as one of the most distinctly and uniquely of Christian styles of architecture: namely, in the pointing upward to heaven, the Latin cruciform structure (reflecting the human shape), the considerations of light and moving of iconography to windows, etc. The Christian adopting and elevating of pagan Roman forms of the square and circle is obviously a beautiful and worthy subject of contemplation, but the development of architectural theology in the thoroughly and exclusively Christian imagination to the Gothic forms surely must deserve some reflection as well?
The fractal nature of The Temple: Christ's Body = The Temple Christ's Body = Christ (Head) + The Church (His Body) The Church = The Temple (The Body of Christ) Which brings us back to square one... Christ's Body = The Temple Christ's Body = Christ (Head) + The Church (His Body) The Church = The Temple (The Body of Christ)
The circle and square representing Heaven and Earth is fascinating in its beauty and insight. However, the description of east and west, as well as left and right, seems strange and arbitrary, though I don't doubt that those ideas have their own tradition. Anyone who has watched a sunset knows that west is not the place where darkness starts, but the place where light holds out longest as night falls. The hands corresponding to light and dark is reversed in the Southern Hemisphere. In ancient China, the traditional orientation was toward the south, but that's neither here nor there. I appreciate that at the end, Jonathan warns, as Christ did, against trying to conform everything to this model because God is its source, not vice versa. And so, as much wisdom as there is in building an oriented church, to suppose that this is the only proper understanding it is not wise.
Just an interesting thought in my imagination. Nazareth, where Jesus was a carpenter, had a stone quarry. Jesus likely worked at the quarry building scaffolding or even cutting stones. So he would have experienced stones being cut for arches and capstone. So his imagery of a stone that was "rejected" only for the builders to come back for it as the capstone might have been something he saw first hand.
@frieda3569 You make an interesting point. I could also add that the Greek word translated "carpenter" is TEKNON which more specifically means "artificer" so could have meant "stone mason."
It's the four tribe of Israel symbols on flags Judah, Reuban, Ephraim, and Dan The tribes order in desert Numbers 2. They moved in that order. East. South. West North. Time in clockwise order.
To broaden your argument about how we perceive ourself in space, read; Leonardo Da Vinci, by Walter Isaacson. Text and many illustrations, and again the power of the rich and the church.
We have Christ and the Holy Spirit's intercession. We have the intercession of fellow Christians on earth. Fractally speaking, we need also the intercession of the saints in heaven; otherwise there is a big gap between heaven and earth. Accordingly, Orthodox church architecture exhibits the saints in an elevated position between the floor and the dome.
I knew a priest ( Catholic) who majored in architecture in seminary. He taught me about the theology behind and within architecture. It is a big subject. I am a stonemason and my work has been greatly influenced by him. It also goes into all architecture( not only churches)
You have the inner world (soul ) and the outer world. They are intertwined. We are affected on all levels of our soul by the environments we create, and live in. Good architecture is a vital part of of healthy living for the body soul and spiritual dimensions within us.
Support us at www.thesymbolicworld.com for more videos like this and please like and share if you find it of value.
God's peace be with, you have introduced me to symbolism which almost miraculously changed my world view, I read books and understand furthermore enjoy them I'm deeply grateful to you. Even so I say there's a lot you haven't covered upon, like greek mythology which is a fountain of symbolism, I really hope you do so and help many understand 🙏🙏🙏 thank you for all your work
Just became a $25.00 month member! Thanks Jon..your a gift to us!
More of this please! I've been doing architecture for a decade now and I'm definitely going to start designing buildings with this in mind.
Hi Jonathan, huge fan of yours despite only relatively recently discovering your content. As an Anglican of the “high church” variety you’ve sparked an incredible interest in and respect for the Orthodox Church. God bless you and keep up the amazing content.
How did you discover him? This stuff is kind of niche. I'm just curious.
@@gofish7388 I suppose I’ve always been interested in other denominations (even when I was an atheist) the differences and the unique beauty of them in some part fascinates me. I think it was ether a TH-cam short with him in or someone taking about “orthodox influencers” and once I realised he wasn’t a “the catholics are wrong on everything and here’s why” kinda guy I was interested more. At this point I think the west needs to more past a lot of minor issues when it comes to denominations and focus more on insuring that Christianity still has a solid foothold in Europe. I always said , better an orthodox Jerusalem then a Jewish one, better a catholic Spain then a Muslim one. What about yourself?
For me it's JBP @@gofish7388
careful, I was in the same boat when I found Jonathan. now I'm Greek Orthodox 😉
@@caleb116 lol. Guess we’ll see where God takes me but good for you it’s has a beautiful tradition and imo undeniably is the most authentic to the original Christian churches. God bless you and the Greek orthodox community
I had the privilege to see a version of this talk at St. Andrew Orthodox Church in Riverside, California. It was great!
same!
@@educationalporpoises9592 your username and profile photo were the first things I chuckled at today. It's all going to be stuck in my head for the rest of the day. Thanks for that, and have a great day! 😊
Jonathan is a gift to us all! The things you say ring true to a deep part of me.
You keep surprising me with more and more examples of beautiful symbolism. I will look at arches differently now.
This is fascinating. Please, Johnathan, keep making more videos like this one! It's perhaps among your vest kind of work. God bless
In arch school, we studied the evolution of the church building and the use of the arch. At school it was described as the tool by which they could open up the expanse of the building. The stone ceiling seemed to float. It was shock and awe. With the gothic floor plan, one entered on the East with the sun. As one walked towards the alter in west, the stone columns marked time, until you reach the apse, where Christ welcomes you. But to get to Him, there above you in heaven, you must pass the alter symbolizing death.
Powerful! Tyvm for sharing this!
thank you for your wonderful insights ... 💙
many greetings from Belgrade ...
and the church is the temple of Saint Sava!
I love the acknowledgement of the need to maintain and accept tension. A lot of religious conflict in history results when people try to oversimplify worship and arrive at a conclusion by condemning things once and for all just to give us peace of mind from false dichotomies that we shouldn’t really be wanting to embrace.
wow. this talk was really enlightening and inspiring, and tied many threads together in my mind from previous knowledge of Indigenous cultures and much more. I really love the topics you choose and how you lay them out in religious yet neutral/ symbolic language. Blessings
Thank you, for all you have stepped forward to do in these times. I so value and appreciate your thoughtful presentation of such sacred, beautiful work 🙏
Ah nice will listen to this, as an architect Ive been wondering on why architecture is important if it is at all.
Woo! JP talking about architecture! Can't wait.
This sparks a firestorm of thoughts. Thank you Jonathon!
Along with the cornerstone, the equal wedge shaped tiles that build the rest of the archway are called "voussoirs". I learnt how to do this when doing my tiling trade. I dont get to use this skill much, which is a shame.
Brilliant! A supreme “symbolism happens“ moment for me was recognizing that my own home church, like many large, traditional Western churches, symbolized a prone human body: rounded apse with a high altar tabernacle (the mind) and a lower center altar for HC (the heart) which we, the body, circumambulated each Sunday in coming together with Christ our Head. Since that “heart” was flanked not only by transept arms, but also two nodes- lectern and pulpit - from which the milk of God‘s word (Luke 11:27-28) was given, and since the baptismal font was prominently placed “toward the feet” it was obviously a female body- the bride- represented in the vertical plane as coming together with Christ in the Divine Service.
Come to think of it, the high arch which set off the chancel and apse from the nave had a decorative capstone/keystone marked with the chi-rho.
I imbibed all that as a kid and it’s still with me today. So cool!
Very interesting discussion! The arch was a Roman invention for spanning larger distances when building with masonry materials; there was no steel or modern concrete at the time.
No arches are found in the ancient Jewish tabernacle, synagogue, or temple in which Jesus himself taught. The symbolism was more about the center within the center or the Holy of Holies.
Ancient Greek temple architecture on the Acropolis like the Parthenon used exaggerated forms (intentionally incorrect) to symbolize the Platonic perfection of the place of the gods when viewed by human eyes.
Ancient Egyptian architecture attempted to bring immortality and glory to the pharaohs who claimed to be gods and seemed to like triangles…
Ancient pagan architecture like Stonehenge was an attempt to strengthen our connection with nature or their understanding of a deity. Stonehenge does happen to be oriented as a circle. But without a ceiling.
It is an ongoing challenge for architects to depict Heaven on Earth. What symbol’s resonate with believers today and for all time?
What implications for sacred architecture are there in Jesus’s idea that believers are his temple now? The veil was torn? There is no more Holy of Holies? The Holy Spirit resides in us now. No longer represented by the smoke from an alter, or the light from a candle.
It is impossible to contain new wine in old wineskins forever, and it is controversial to create new wineskins in which new wine desperately needs to age.
Love to see you on this topic, MORE PLEASE
Man, this is beautiful! ✝️
Enriching content packed full of insight. This is very helpful to me and I'm sure to others.
Thank you for this video Jonathan. And for the skateboarding one. There's been multiple eye opening moments in your videos for me and I actually feel like I'm learning something interesting that I can pay attention to for a longer time
Just bought a book about all this! Definitely worth getting a good book with photos of all this stuff
May I ask the title?
@@alandiaz5184 i find it's really hard to find books which explain this sort of stuff the way JP does. They tend to get stuck on the technical or are too basic. Id love to know some suggestions.
It’s unfortunate that much of the church has forgotten this rich architectural wisdom, while government buildings along with Islam took it up.
This is so wonderful. Thank you ❤
I can't wait 🎉
Watch the Australian program on SBS ; Structures of Marvel; Medieval Paris.
A detailed explanation about the building of Sainte-Chapelle and The Conciergerie.
Also an explanation about the powers of Kings, Money, Architects and and the reason of building the Chapelle; “The Crown Of Thorns” ( bought for an enormous amount by the King to upgrade his importance)
Excellent lesson. My take away is that there remains a tension between heaven and earth that is maintained regardless.
Most interesting , im a fan coming from the LOS pipeline...
This really and truly spoke to me. Thank you 🙏🏼
Dr. Pageau:
I would love to introduce you to the methods of astrological interpretation, which you may not know you touch upon in this video towards the end, around the ancient greek astrological doctrines of house rulership. That is, when one Planet is charged in providing for another when in their sign. Much how Venus (Lucifer)’s behavior changes based on these matters, but especially how this doctrine relates to the christian concepts of hospitality, as enshrined in the “hospitality of Abraham.”
Wonderful. Thank you!
very interesting stuff. a lot of parallels to kaballah and khemetic thought, as expressed partially through theosophy as well as surviving bronze and iron age manuscripts. nice to see a christian who has an appreciation for sacred form and even fractals. a rare gift.
Probably because they are all referencing the same historical worldview.
@@animula6908 more or less, the wisdom's in the details.
The fractal pattern is time as well. It's Ezekiel wheel. A wheel within a wheel
The Serbian church is the church of St Sava in Belgrade
Great stuff!
Sam Hyde brought me here…. Great content Jonathan - Hail Christ our Lord and Saviour.
@JonathanPageau I'd love for you to do some analysis of Gothic architecture in the terms of its own builders and defenders as one of the most distinctly and uniquely of Christian styles of architecture: namely, in the pointing upward to heaven, the Latin cruciform structure (reflecting the human shape), the considerations of light and moving of iconography to windows, etc. The Christian adopting and elevating of pagan Roman forms of the square and circle is obviously a beautiful and worthy subject of contemplation, but the development of architectural theology in the thoroughly and exclusively Christian imagination to the Gothic forms surely must deserve some reflection as well?
The fractal nature of The Temple:
Christ's Body = The Temple
Christ's Body = Christ (Head) + The Church (His Body)
The Church = The Temple (The Body of Christ)
Which brings us back to square one...
Christ's Body = The Temple
Christ's Body = Christ (Head) + The Church (His Body)
The Church = The Temple (The Body of Christ)
What is that painting called at 33:25?
The Transfiguration
Sam Hyde watches Jonathan Pageau
Yo what. Is there a clip of him mentioning Pageau?
Tell us where to find the clip
Why do you say?
@@maximosmagyar9653 Just thought fans would find it an interesting intersection.
@@sonofphilip8229 What I mean is why do you think or know that's true?
The circle and square representing Heaven and Earth is fascinating in its beauty and insight. However, the description of east and west, as well as left and right, seems strange and arbitrary, though I don't doubt that those ideas have their own tradition. Anyone who has watched a sunset knows that west is not the place where darkness starts, but the place where light holds out longest as night falls. The hands corresponding to light and dark is reversed in the Southern Hemisphere. In ancient China, the traditional orientation was toward the south, but that's neither here nor there.
I appreciate that at the end, Jonathan warns, as Christ did, against trying to conform everything to this model because God is its source, not vice versa. And so, as much wisdom as there is in building an oriented church, to suppose that this is the only proper understanding it is not wise.
can you talk abut memory eucharist
*also old battery stations for free energy*
The Stone from Heaven, placed from the top.
Just an interesting thought in my imagination.
Nazareth, where Jesus was a carpenter, had a stone quarry. Jesus likely worked at the quarry building scaffolding or even cutting stones.
So he would have experienced stones being cut for arches and capstone. So his imagery of a stone that was "rejected" only for the builders to come back for it as the capstone might have been something he saw first hand.
No
@frieda3569 You make an interesting point. I could also add that the Greek word translated "carpenter" is TEKNON which more specifically means "artificer" so could have meant "stone mason."
It's the four tribe of Israel symbols on flags Judah, Reuban, Ephraim, and Dan The tribes order in desert Numbers 2. They moved in that order. East. South. West North. Time in clockwise order.
Wow.
Has anyone seen this? Seems related:
19:08 agh!! Can’t link a photo.
What church is in the thumbnail?
It's the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.
You are a very intelligent man. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us simpletons. 😂
To broaden your argument about how we perceive ourself in space, read; Leonardo Da Vinci, by Walter Isaacson. Text and many illustrations, and again the power of the rich and the church.
Greetings from Georgia ( Caucasian Region ) !
We are indeed the earthen temple. Dust to man to dust
We have Christ and the Holy Spirit's intercession. We have the intercession of fellow Christians on earth. Fractally speaking, we need also the intercession of the saints in heaven; otherwise there is a big gap between heaven and earth. Accordingly, Orthodox church architecture exhibits the saints in an elevated position between the floor and the dome.
❤
What writings or books have you stumbled across that talk about the history of architecture and Christianity? Are there any?
I knew a priest ( Catholic) who majored in architecture in seminary.
He taught me about the theology behind and within architecture. It is a big subject. I am a stonemason and my work has been greatly influenced by him.
It also goes into all architecture( not only churches)
You have the inner world (soul ) and the outer world. They are intertwined. We are affected on all levels of our soul by the environments we create, and live in.
Good architecture is a vital part of of healthy living for the body soul and spiritual dimensions within us.
1
Need to be reminded of heaven? There’s an apse for that.
round earth ❌
flat earth ❌
square earth ✅
Does anyone know what the beast is on the title card, in the intro? Is it the Simurgh or something else?
They explain it in Pageau's video "Heather Pollington: From Hollywood to The Symbolic World".
What about perpendicular Gothic architecture? Pointed arches, heaven is a little bit squashed!
Wheels within wheels = spinner rims
Found you thanks to Jordan Peterson
Hidden Pythagorean scared geometry..
Thank you for no coming up!!!! your symbolic explanations are less good then they used to be. But I doubt not your path. Jah blesss ❤🐸🐦!
So @JonathanPageau you a Flat Earther? Flat earth with 4 corners and a dome??
😍💋💋
❤