The Echo is another example of a phenomenon I call "GOAT bloat" where a manufacturer makes so many great weapons of the same type that it’s hard to pick one. See also: Maliwan SMGs.
I think the Echo is a supremely good weapon for the simple fact that it activates many effects multiple times when they would normally be prevented by a timer. Short Fuse has an internal cooldown of 0.1s, so if you use a shotgun, only one pellet would cause an explosion, which the Echo can circumvent in events where it gets the right roll that allows for multiple back-to-back activations of the skill. Fl4k's ammo return skill and Means of Destruction have a 0.3s timer, so similar story there. Some other special effects like Zane's eraser and Moze's Mine Sweeper (my beloved) abilities are utilized by this gun extremely well too, even in a fire-and-forget situation where you can tag one enemy in the head and move on to the next while being sure that the first one is (probably) gonna die. The breeder has similar benefits once more, with the not-quite-as-obvious downside that the new projectiles aren't going to be crits even if the original hit landed on the head, which can severely dampen its effectiveness. Combining that with the low lifetime of the projectiles only being 1.5 seconds, meaning that they fade out of existence before actually detonating (good to see in the clips of Amara with TTB and in the Guardian Takedown) can make it a relatively inconsistent experience. This IS offset by the gun's ability to hit multiple enemies at once, but tends to be more of a downside overall.
Dude the Red Line dumps ammo fast, but it's a monster. Unlike most gyrojet weapons, you can dump the mag in 2 seconds or less even with Moze and watch the target blow up for 10 seconds
Eyy, pretty happy you covered echo and breeder finally. I recommended the gun quiet some time ago lol. Another gun recommendation if your interested are Dakota, the duc and trickshot
I loved the Echo back when I played this game! Firing a bullet that explodes like three times is just funny lol Graaaaaaaanted, I was always more of a Lucky 7 kinda guy. The gimmick was just funny is all.
Overall damage output and especially time to kill is for sure lower than both the Craps and the Prompt Critical, but it definitely still holds up against them. All 3 have pretty different strengths and gameplay to them, leaving room for each to shine depending on exactly what you're looking for out of them. Craps is RNG-based but can hit like a truck, Prompt Critical is HUGE AOE potential while also having great single target, Echo is very set it and forget it single target damage.
The problem with both these weapons is, as a Scoville enjoyer, i struggle to see a reason to use them. "Fire and forget" doesn't mean much if you're killing slower anyway. The Scoville has higher dps (ESPECIALLY with some for the road) and lets you clear masses of mobs infinitely faster. I've tried to appreciate the echo and the breeder, but i always find them underwhelming I especially feel like, if i want to use the breeder, why not just use the Backburner and abuse cloud of lead to eliminate launcher ammo cost? (fire with launcher on cloud of lead proc, switch to 3 round burst weapon and fire, switch back to launcher and fire, repeat). The Backburner has a very similar effect to the breeder, but with far more impressive effect. The breeder feels kind of like a baby weapon in comparison
The Echo is so goated, it's the weapon that singlehandedly helped me farm a Moon Fire. Literally amazing, especially on my Fl4k.
If it's so goated, why would you use it to farm a different gun? Just kidding, this is why I love borderlands. Farm one gun to farm another, and so on
The Echo is another example of a phenomenon I call "GOAT bloat" where a manufacturer makes so many great weapons of the same type that it’s hard to pick one. See also: Maliwan SMGs.
Dahl SMGs to lesser extent as well
and Torgue Pistols like these two
You mean like the Plasma Coil? And the Cutsman? And the Kyb's Worth? And of course my beloved Flipper?
Flipper? I hardly know her.
I think the Echo is a supremely good weapon for the simple fact that it activates many effects multiple times when they would normally be prevented by a timer. Short Fuse has an internal cooldown of 0.1s, so if you use a shotgun, only one pellet would cause an explosion, which the Echo can circumvent in events where it gets the right roll that allows for multiple back-to-back activations of the skill. Fl4k's ammo return skill and Means of Destruction have a 0.3s timer, so similar story there. Some other special effects like Zane's eraser and Moze's Mine Sweeper (my beloved) abilities are utilized by this gun extremely well too, even in a fire-and-forget situation where you can tag one enemy in the head and move on to the next while being sure that the first one is (probably) gonna die.
The breeder has similar benefits once more, with the not-quite-as-obvious downside that the new projectiles aren't going to be crits even if the original hit landed on the head, which can severely dampen its effectiveness. Combining that with the low lifetime of the projectiles only being 1.5 seconds, meaning that they fade out of existence before actually detonating (good to see in the clips of Amara with TTB and in the Guardian Takedown) can make it a relatively inconsistent experience. This IS offset by the gun's ability to hit multiple enemies at once, but tends to be more of a downside overall.
Well shit, you’ve put me on the echo now, looks super fun and I personally love the torgue sticky gameplay
Dude the Red Line dumps ammo fast, but it's a monster. Unlike most gyrojet weapons, you can dump the mag in 2 seconds or less even with Moze and watch the target blow up for 10 seconds
i love angel swapping the redline on moze, splash damage and some for the road is stupidly good
Eyy, pretty happy you covered echo and breeder finally. I recommended the gun quiet some time ago lol. Another gun recommendation if your interested are Dakota, the duc and trickshot
On the other hand, the breeder + a singularity grenade/amara's singularity augment, becomes a ton of fun
Breeder? I hardly know her!
I got a cryo one in my initial normal playthrough and it was fun as hell. Been trying to recapture that fun since.
Would love for you to do a flak guide
I love the breeder i just wish it has more radius and a bit more damage
I loved the Echo back when I played this game! Firing a bullet that explodes like three times is just funny lol
Graaaaaaaanted, I was always more of a Lucky 7 kinda guy. The gimmick was just funny is all.
The Echo is not forgotten. I use it on plenty of splash builds, and the Breeder on Moze is insane if you can keep your distance 😂
I've been waiting for an Echo video from you because I've been absolutely loving it!
How would you say it compares to Craps and Prompt Critical?
Overall damage output and especially time to kill is for sure lower than both the Craps and the Prompt Critical, but it definitely still holds up against them.
All 3 have pretty different strengths and gameplay to them, leaving room for each to shine depending on exactly what you're looking for out of them. Craps is RNG-based but can hit like a truck, Prompt Critical is HUGE AOE potential while also having great single target, Echo is very set it and forget it single target damage.
@@arachnica_ Thanks for breaking it down!
Reloading on the x2 gives the stickys a second to start doing their thing
My only issue with Echo and Breeder is that Prompt Critical exists. It is both stronger and feels better for me
The problem with both these weapons is, as a Scoville enjoyer, i struggle to see a reason to use them. "Fire and forget" doesn't mean much if you're killing slower anyway. The Scoville has higher dps (ESPECIALLY with some for the road) and lets you clear masses of mobs infinitely faster. I've tried to appreciate the echo and the breeder, but i always find them underwhelming
I especially feel like, if i want to use the breeder, why not just use the Backburner and abuse cloud of lead to eliminate launcher ammo cost? (fire with launcher on cloud of lead proc, switch to 3 round burst weapon and fire, switch back to launcher and fire, repeat). The Backburner has a very similar effect to the breeder, but with far more impressive effect. The breeder feels kind of like a baby weapon in comparison
Do you realise that Echo is just Logan's gun effect perfected?
I thought the Logan's gun effect was free rocket ammo + doubling as a paperweight
@arachnica_ BL2 technical limitation. It shoots projectiles that use grenade model, that sticks to surface and explode 2 times
for me this 2 are power creep by harold, promt critical and rose and trons.
Echo would be a sticky goat if Prompt Critical or Redline didn't exist.
hear me out.. singularity + breeder combo tho
45s no views
Fell off
i've tried many times to use these but they're so shit