How He’s BRRRRing Large Multi Family Apartment Buildings
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ธ.ค. 2024
- In this video Kyle Ford breaks down the numbers and discusses how he's brrrring large multi family apartment buildings in Kitchener, Ontario!
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Matt McKeever is a CPA, CA and Real Estate Entrepreneur in London, Ontario. On this TH-cam Channel Matt discusses a variety or real estate and personal finance strategies and tactics. Including: How to BRRRR Real Estate, The Importance of Investing for Cash Flow, How to Reach Financial Independence Retire Early, Safe Withdrawal Rates, Frugality and Reducing Personal Consumption & Embracing Minimalism.
Matt began investing in real estate at age 25 by purchasing a student rental near Fanshawe College.
Jesus. This is gold
Hey Edward I agree with you what was your favourite part
Videos like this are priceless! Great way to show steps involved to make deals like this happen
100% - where are you investing? (Or looking to invest)
Matt McKeever I have my eyes on Barrie, Kitchener area, London. Mainly looking at duplex/tri atm. Something like this (multiple unit buildings) is a future goal for myself.
@@ryanodee2578 I know barrie still has alot of opportunity for duplex conversions and Kitchener is also very interesting especially with the city allowing Tiny homes
This guy is killing it!
Hey Erika yes !! Have your tried this strategy the brrrr
Wow! The level of detail you guys get into in this video is unreal. Keep it up!
Hey rob I agree 100% what was your fav part of the video ?
very rare to see informative videos... let alone a fellow canadian with informative videos, so many are full of fluff, most people would show all 10 rooms and talk about why they chose the countertops they did. this channel is a goldmine for canadian investors IMO
Great video, Kyle explains everything very well. Property goals right there!
💯
Thank you so much, I've got exactly the same situation, private finance, 11 unit, total renovation. Its been fun. Will be getting a standard loan in a couple months. Every one says I've done it really fast but it seems so slow to me. Bought it Jan 1st.
Great work! I would love to understand how you acquired a standard financing loan. I was under the impression a property requires to have a minimum of 12 units for this scale of a project. Thanks for the insight!
@@chrisrudy1994 the finance was from the previous owner, 30% down. The bank wanted 35% I needed the extra 5% for the rehab. Worked out great. I got loans for the other properties I was buying, 30% loan, 7% interest and I can't refi for 2 years, none of the properties had rent rolls , that's why the interest is so high after the 2 years I'll refi, will have had great rent rolls and will get a much better rate.
Hey Julie that’s amazing how’s your project going so far
@@jeffersonortiz8384 done! I'm very happy with the results
Gold. Pure gold. Thank you both so much for this - I'll be indebted to you both when I do my first large multi-family BRRRR!
Hey Kellan, have you already done that first BRRRR that you wanted to achieve? If you did, Can you tell me how was it?
@@juanfano1107 Hey Juan - I had a 6-plex I was refinancing (video about it is on my TH-cam channel) but commercial refinancing is currently on pause, especially anything with CMHC.
How does securing private lending through an rrsp or any other pirvate method allow for 1 year of deferred mortgage payments ?
BRRRR is the best Strategy out there for real estate! Who else thinks that?
I love BRRRRs
only way, i bought 312 fixed for 23k 2 years later refi 24k cashout out valued at 392k, helped with the downpayment on a 2nd.
What's a BRRR thanks guys
@@ladyplantzalot6987 Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance. :)
@@forbeshansen1564 thanks friend I just found some videos on that and wow.... Mind blown
Some gold nuggets in there. I'm in the process of BRRRRing a 46-unit building in Montreal. Thanks!!!
Hi. Thanks for sharing. I am also in Montreal. Just wondering if you find doing brrrr on a big building has a greater return (percentage wise) versus a six or eight plex? Thanks
Alexander Huang good question. With more units there are more opportunities to increase revenues. For example on a 46-unit building if you can get 20 tenants to leave and increase the revenue on each one by $200 that's $48,000 per year plus one annual increase of $20/month x 46 units that's an extra $11,000 for a total of $59,000. At a 5% cap rate that's $1,180,000 in increase in value.
AS 2212 I’m in Quebec it’s fun to see Canadian going strong
How did you find it.
from some quick research i assume you're in the west island, i have strong funding on the island and we are always looking for opportunities, would like to know more if possible
That's how we approach multi-units too. We usually BRRRR them within 3-5 years and continue to pay out our investors' cashflow for as long as we own the building!
AMAZING video, this is exactly the type of video/deal ive been waiting to find on TH-cam. Exactly the type of building, BRRRR`s I am getting into after being a flipper. Thanks guys!
Awesome! What market are you looking to BRRRR in?
Matt McKeever I’m in the US and have been looking at Phoenix AZ.
Hey john where are you working out of , I’m a wholesaler would love to connect and possibly work together
Hey John, I just want to know if you already made your BRRRR deal?
Matt I live in New York but it doesn’t matter your videos provide good information that I can apply. Thx
Great video Matt! Thanks for the awesome inside perspective Kyle!
Thanks for the support!
I agree what was your fav part of the video ?
Michael, the way they tackle the numbers is great. However, if you are really interested in REI you should sign in for CashFlow tribe
Extremely professional. Love the confidence and the knowledge. I need to look into the banking business.
Kyle is a wealth of knowledge
Hey William , yes absolutely which part of the baking business would you want to get into
Great channel, really happy that ive found you guys. Greeting from The Netherlands
That’s awesome how’s the real estate market out in Netherlands ?
Hi Anno, what can you tell us about the Real estate Marker in the Netherlands? Are you interested in becoming a Real Estate Investor?
How did he figure $175k NOI? His current avg rent is $1,000 as he stated. So this means his new rents are $4000 per unit???
Thank you for putting this video up. Very grateful. Getting started in multi-family and currently self-employed but do not have stable income so I'm partnering with a good friend who has substantial income but not too much real estate knowledge. The bit on banks LOOK AT YOU was great. because I keep hearing that banks weigh their decisions mainly on the real estate rather than the personal.
Hey mike , this is very tru raising capital using private money is less headaches and faster than the bank , hows this project going
A lot of valuable information in here. Great breakdown of numbers and lots of great tips of managing renovations and financing !
Kyle is crushing it!
Spectacular video Matt!
Thanks A Lot! We obviously couldn't have done it without Kyle Ford sharing this with us so the credit definitely goes to him!
Great video, very informative and useful.
Matt keep with the great work! Currently looking to purchase a home and some of the points you and Kyle made are going to help! Congratulations to the both of you - both super young and successful. Hope to be where you guys are at in 5 years or less.
Are you planning on implementing the brrrr strategy ?
BRRR = Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance
And Repeat!
@@CanadianRealEstateChannel Kyle Ford's explanation on how he is going to be able to pull out his initial capital after refinancing is amazing. He is going to be able to rinse and repeat over and over with those types of deals. Love the BRRRR Strategy!
@@CanadianRealEstateChannel The repeat is key for wealth growth, working on a 5plex BRRRR, cant wait for the refi!
Hey Forbes Yaa this is the strategy to generate wealth have you tried it your self and what was your take on it
@@MooSleeno good luck
How did he get all tenants to agree to 3 months rent ?
Very informative and inspiring, thank you guys!
Great information - I was wondering how you would project the scenarios for Active Appreciation estimates
Great video. Thanks all
Great video. Love how you break things down. Thanks
Great deal and the units are looking good, congrats
Yeah I’m excited to go back and check this project out when it’s all done
@@CanadianRealEstateChannel me too, Cant wait to this!
@@CanadianRealEstateChannel You should do another follow up video of the completed project and share if Kyle met or exceeded his projected numbers
It is a great deal indeed. The reno looks very good but I am more excited about how he got all the financing for this building
For sure have you tried the brrr strategy your self ?
Holy snap you are closing in on 50k subs! Congrats!
Thanks!!!
Hey renegade, this is amazing have you tried the brrr strategy
All Matt McKeever videos are great. Have you ever try sign in for CashFlow Tribe?
@@jeffersonortiz8384 tryin it as we speak. Bought a beat up triplex that needs a ton of work and am currently trying to find a halfway decent quote on a huge electrical job it needs. First quote was $39,000!!!
The Knowledge shared is really good here. Thanks to both Kyle and Matt
They have a wealth of knowledge and continue to inspire everyone.
This video is awesome, but if you haven't seen Matt McKeever's potential, I recommend you to watch all his youtube videos and sign in for CashFlow Tribe Canada. It is the best Canadian Real Estate community
Thanks a ton, will watch again!
Have you checked out the other video there awesome !!
Awesome video !!! Thank you
Thanks for watching
Have you had a chance to check out the other videos!
Love the interview, it seems a bit rushed at times. I’m interested in the breakdown of numbers more in layman’s terms as most of us are very new to real estate. I guess being immersed in it for so long the terms are more fluidly exchanged and understood and while filming they are time saving. I’m a construction professional and getting into real estate. A project of this size is very much my comfort zone. The finance side is where I am at a loss. I have past on deals like this because I don’t know where to go/start to be taken seriously. Thank you for your videos.
Hey gadget , I agree which part of the finance confuses you ? Have you tried the brrr strategy before ?
jefferson ortiz I’m a step by step learner. I do t have any mentors to lean on and wealth/money is in short supply in my family. The wealth that I have created has been from earning and saving. Going into a deal like this for me would be like trying to explore a cave without a flashlight or safety rope. I have seen other people’s success stories and they all seem to have some amount of mentoring. I guess I’m falling into the age old “fear and doubt”. I’m not quite sure where to begin.....
@@thecryptolayman5695 im new to real estate too, but getting comfortable enough to where ill put some money down when i can afford it, trust me when i say these videos are a GOLDMINE when you understand it. Let me know what specifically you're confused about and ill try to help you the best i can.
Hey Matt! I loved the video. Can you do a property developer video? Property development seems so esoteric. There are very very few books written on it.
Hey where about a are you located Matt actually has a property management company
Great content.....love anything to do with the apartment buildings on this channel
Hey tcrs is that the projects you would be looking at doing ?
Great concept as long as interest rates stay low. HOWEVER if/when interest rates climb you go to refi and instead of 4.5% you have today rates are at something crazy like 6% or 7% and BAM you end up in big trouble on this deal.
What is the cashflow on this property?
Very inspiring I hope to take down a project like this in the future. Congrats on the deal
Hey Derek have you tried the brrrr strategy before ?
jefferson ortiz I’m currently purchasing rentals but haven’t tried the brrr method exactly no
I know to know the soundproofing plan! Excellent vid's!
Hey Cindy I agree do you plan on taking a project like this in the future
Totally awesome guys!!! What a great FREE education!!! :-) 👍😎
great content/value as always Matt.. not really townhouses but Kyle is a beast esp at his young age, very cunning and full of knowledge, combined with you , one of the pioneers of this YT RE game = value add... big supporter from Asia~!
so explain to me how he got his cap rate percentages did he just divide the NOI by the 1.3 million to get it because I don't understand how he got 3 numbers for it. and why is it that the lower the cap rate the more money the bank will lend to him? Idk if this is just a Canadian thing or what
29 wtf he look like a 56 years old Italian who owns a casino
loooool damn man, hes enjoying life tho
LMAO, that was mean, hee,hee.
I do not own a casino, but if you know someone who has an under performing Casino I'll take it off there hands for the right price! Also, not Italian.
@@kylefordinvest - it’s the silver chain man... it makes you loook like a douch bag -
Amazing amazing video! Love what kyle is doing.
Great video Matt. Is there a 1yr follow up video
Great video, great units, great young investor killing the game, absolutely love this! 🔥 🔥 🔥
The amount of things you have to know, research, and learn to be able to make a deal like this, hurts my brain! Gotta find a way to level up my skills!
Ken Brunet 😅😅😅. Keep learning fam!
A 10 unit really isn't that hard.
its actually not that complex, go through it backwards it might help... our brains are funny like that, hardwired to get confused at times
@@sunrisegroup4912 backwards is something I do, lol.
@@KidCity1985 Not hard? Just finding a property that has this potential for Brrr'ing and knowing what went wrong on the other deals that fell through requires alot of knowledge that new investors wouldn't have (myself included). That's just the first steps. And that's before you even start looking at what's involved in a Brrr
He’s 29!? Dang. Ahead of the game. Very informative.
Love seeing investors crush it at such young age. He’s full of great tips
Under 30 and doing these types of deals is very impressive. It goes to show once you have determination anything is possible
I agree young and knows a lot about the game !
🔥 🔥 🔥
What's the down on multi family ?
Are refi's a non-taxable event in Canada?
Correct, as long as proceeds are used for investing
He keeps comparing these to townhouses ..... aren’t these apartments? If so, I feel like he’s over valuing each unit. Also, what is the market rent there .... looks like it would need to be around $2500/month to fetch $175,000 NOI?
Wade Graham - Century 21 - Lloydminster Realtor don’t think the normal rules of thumb apply here (50% rule), he’s basically pouring money into redoing the entire property so the expenses come way down
Townhouse = multi-story units. It's debatable but, he's already selling the deal so, I get it. Higher valuation sought.
Yah numbers don't make sense. How the fuck can each unit make profit of 1450 per month? Is the tenant paying 4-5k per unit in rent.
@@gurindersingh5852 you answered your question, also who lends a 29 year old 2m even with the interest attached, 2 options his family is in the business or his family is in the BUSINESS
@@gurindersingh5852 great content regardless and matts is valued for bringing it
Great content!
Thank you so much for the wealth of information given here.
Who can I talk to to access 100%+ LTV? Ontario property. Please advise.
I love how dialed in this mate is!
Kyles awesome!
Hey , yes agre for sure have you tried this strategy before ?
It is my first time I see Kyle but I like everything about him. Are you looking to invest in Real Estate?
Hi Matt, this video is very helpful. I am about to purchase an investment property which is to be financed by a private person. The set-up will be just like what Kyle did so I would really appreciate if you can help by providing the real estate lawyer who helped Kyle put together the agreement with his financer. Many thanks and MORE POWER!!!!
Any updates now almost 2 yrs later?
Hay Matt,Great video. So much contain,really value the info. Kyle got his finger on the pulse.Look like he worked hard to step up to the next level. Be good to see another video,when its fully tenanted and see what they think.Also see kyle year when it comes to refi it. Just food for thought Matt. Great video again Matt👍👍
This goes to show how key creating a win win relationship will help you scale. He started smaller and continued to grow with the financial partner to create a win win scenario
I agree the follow video would be great to see how this turned out
How does securing private lending through an rrsp or any other pirvate method allow for 1 year of deferred mortgage payments
I really enjoyed the in-depth end to end coverage of this project. Thank you Matt and I look forward to more in-depth MF project content 👌
i see a numbers break down, i click like
You guys supposed to mention the city.
This is major pressure
What’s RRSP? And deferred payments is really a big help when you’re doing bigger deals! 👍🏻🖤
Art YT RRSP is a retirement savings plan
Art YT rrsp is similar to a 401k
Thinking outside the box is key when it comes to structuring deals. Getting terms with deferred payments is great during the phase of getting the property up to its best use.
What trust company did he use that funds based on cap rate?
good question, im guessing family related
He said it was private money. Considering he is also a broker he was likely able to use the connections he built + with his track record to source capital from individuals like you and my self that may have capital to invest.
600k in reno? Im no expert, but seems like his contractors milked him like a cow
600k might include the cost of materials as well. Not just the labor cost of the construction workers.
R V yeah, you heard it right. 25k per unit he said. 10 units would cost 250k, maybe that is only for the labor cost. I am not sure about the numbers here.
He also said that included tenant buyouts, infrastructure upgrades on the exterior and interior. If anything I expected more plus these are Canadian prices
@@NoHarmDunn No he said 25K per apartment, then later said that townhouses are 40-50K/unit.
Hey Mr , the cost would be for everything but I believe it’s 25 k per unit to renovate so total 250 k this would be a bigger project as it’s a 10 plex
Hi Matt, Love the Content! May I ask what's the typical (average?) dimensions of the Multi-Family properties that you have reviewed so far? Like what's the typical Lot Size and What's the typical floor area per apartment unit, just to get some idea. Thanks!
This would depend on the kind of building, levels, and layouts. I would say depending on what are you looking for something around 850-1000sqft. What specific kind of Multi-family are you looking for?
Matt I met Sarah L and investor girl Brit and another lovely Canadian lady investor at the BP conference. They were a bit surprised that I knew you (from you tube)and them. I went on to rave about your channel and how real and authentic I find the content. Someday I will show up in Canada to visit
Isn't the content great. There are not many youtubers with this level and consistency of content
What of camera s do you use?
What were rents before and after? Wondering how was he able to Jump NOI so much?
In addition to the rent increase due to the higher end finishes, I think he was able to bring down his expenses. One being separate hydro meters for each unit
I didn't hear anything about the previous rent either; However, there is a significant increase in the value, not only because of the renovation itself. He added A/C per unit, dishwashers, completely new storage for each unit. He said he was going to build a recreational deck in the backside of the apartment. Also, my best guess would be he was able to reduce expenses drastically and some of these expenses are now going to be paid by the tenants. What do you think?
Juan Fano yep totally agree, he is able to increase value and rents and offset expense by having tenants pay for their own utilities
what an inspiration!
🔥 🔥 🔥
I'm curious to understand how this deal was fully funded via RRSP money. I was under the impression there are strict rules regarding borrowing against RRSP'S for the purchase of a home. How would this loan need to be structured?
Just like how you can invest your RRSP into mutual funds you can self direct your RRSP funds to invest in real-estate
First, this is a great RRSP account. This money can be borrowed using Olympia Trust Company if I am not mistaken
Man that's a pretty Building.
🔥 🔥 🔥
It'd be great to have an update on this complex in a year, I really hope he makes good money but in the back of my mind I can't help but feeling that the real numbers are not going to be nearly as good as on paper - and that he maybe gave up too much to make this deal happen. It's hard to imagine doubling rent from a renovation?
he will, he bought well. you make the money when you buy. the fix will allow him to refinance very well, then on to the next deal, he's good and smart and experienced already at a young age, wonder if his family was in the business before
Many times previous owners are renting below market rent. The key thing that Kyle was able to do was to get the property vacant buy providing cash for keys to tenants, which typically allows for higher rent after renovation. But I do a agree an updated video of the final product with numbers would be great.
The only thing we haven't seen was the previous condition of the building. So, it would be hard to believe the rent went double but if the condition of the property before was horrible, this is something that could easily happen. Also, the NOI is not only affected by the rent, but he should also have come with an idea for reducing expenses significantly
How much is the rent?In 10 units a month? If it is,you are loosing money or not getting anything of the end of year,1.300.000 is lot money for 10 units,
Hey, remember this is an investment. You are not expecting to get your money back in one year. If you ask me, 1.3M for 10 properties is a good deal. Are you working in Real Estate or something?
Matt, do you have a link for the 2 hour in-person coaching session?
just go to description and see book a call with matt
Is it legal to force turnover of tenants like that or is that just a deal he made with them (3mos rent)? I always worried about that with buying a building to reno.
from my understanding as long as the tenants agree its legal. The strategy is called cash for keys.
@@andraebrown5565 Cash for keys is legal! Get them to sign paperwork. N9 or N11. Its a legal form from the LTB.
I would do one unit at the time, takes time to build up portfolio.
Once you do a couple smaller units and have the systems and connection you will be able to scale.. like Kyle said just add an extra 0 at the end of everything.
I am in the same way. I am still looking for small deals that will bring me into a nice portfolio. Are you still looking for real estate investments?
@@juanfano1107 yes I'm, but this time is not time to buy just yet. From here properties could go down for some time to come. My opinion lol
Manoleum?
how did he get all the tenants out so he could reno the whole building? buy them out of their lease or what?
yes. he states it. the cost is captured in the reno figure
The strategy is called Cash for Keys. Basically you negotiate with tenants to a mutual agreed upon price to have them vacate the building. In the example he included the those costs in his renovation budget
Thanks
Why is it that he keeps referring them as townhouse units instead of apartments?
They are town house styled apartments. Its definitely an interesting concept. Looks like all units have multiple floors including a basement.
Masterful
Thanks for the support!
Hi I’m newer investor been investing in Realestate part time for about 6 years and have a portfolio of 5 houses and 1 commercial automotive property with 12 units total.
I Have a good deal 18unit apartment building well below ARV I’m looking at off market and need a private money lender to help with down payment and rehab. Any recommendations would be much appreciated.
Just seeing this! I hope you were able to find the financing you needed. We’ve got a lot of series on our channel featuring mortgage specialists and private lenders. Check out Findlay team or in this video, you’ve got a perfect connection to Kyle Ford. Cheers.
If you live in Canada the brrr is the next best thing to 1031 exchange
100% wish we had a 1031 exchange
@@CanadianRealEstateChannel 1031 is amazing. Would love it if Canada had that
The numbers for re-valuation make no sense...impossible to value the units at $300k/unit considering they are an apartment townhouse and not freehold units.
Its being done based on the cap rate, we're going through the CMHC program now, Actually looks like it will land closer to $350,000 per unit based on our Cap Rate. Keep talking about it can't be done, I'll keep doing it!
@@kylefordinvest what do you mean going through CMHC program and raing the price per unitg based on cap rate ?
It looks almost impossible but I would rather know how to do it than just saying that is impossible. This could actually help me with my REI
Age has nothing to do with investing smh..🤦
I agree with you it’s about the value you bring in
@@jeffersonortiz8384 thats what i love about RE investing over traditional 9-5s, so much more money to be made in investing its not even close
So he borrowed the entire deal?.. I thought i heard him saying something about investors??
He borrowed the money from investors and provided them with a return on their investment.
He borrowed the money from an RRSP account. Regardless of where the money is coming from, the owner could be considered an investor
U pre pay contractor s in Chicago and you will be chasing them the rest of the project
Is that where you are investing mainly in Chicago ?
You will always find good and bad contractors. At the end of the day, you just have to create a great relationship with them in order to make sure that everyone is happy. Do you agree?
Do I need a sport jacket to brrrr properly?
Yes. ;)
LOL! That's a good one. I never use any of these sport jackets; However, I like to look presentable
175k noi on 10 units is 17.5k per unit and 1458 per month. How can each unit make that much profit, is the tentant paying 5000 per month for a small ass unit lol. Numbers don't make sense to me
wow, pretty high chance he makes profit right after refinance, then its on to the next...while his bills get paid for the next 5 years with no extra work, stuff like this is why im so enthusiastic about RE investing, this is my dream job, im only 19 but if after only 10 years if i could start doing deals a fraction this big id be so happy. Time to start saving my pennies to find my first deal
He's 29? Dude looks at least 40. lol
ojames1983 laughed so hard 😂
Dude, I am 30 and I look older, lol. I would like to be like him. I am working in order to make smaller deals, are you interested in Real Estate?
Matt are you allowed to take rrsp money out to buy commercial and not pay back for a year? I thought that was just for your first home owner
You can self direct your RRSP to invest in realestate. Your not actually pulling it out. You can think of it like investing in Mutual funds.
@@andraebrown5565 thanks for the reply, are you talking about investing in something like REITS or you mean you can actually buy a particular real estate property? I have already used my first home buyer withdrawal several years ago from my rrsp as well.
nordette I wasn’t referring to REITS but that is also an option. Even if you used your first time buyers option already you can still use ur rrsp to invest. You however cannot invest in your own projects. You can invest in another investors project as a money partner and receive a return on your investment. Just like how in the video Kyle Ford was using someone’s else’s money to purchase and renovate his building while providing a return to them.
@@andraebrown5565 ahhhhhh ok thanks for the knowledge!
Yo Matt you remind me of Connor McGregor lol. Am I going to see you in the UFC ring of Real Estate?
Haha I never thought of this 😂that’s funny
150K loan fee wtf. i bet you before he knows it. he will be making enough money to put 30%+ down
the thing that strikes me the most with these highly successful real estate investors is they all look unhealthy. as a real estate investor myself i believe in diversification because focusing on real estate is too stressful. yes you have no boss but the business is your boss! personally i still have a 9-5 job, do securities swing trades (money in seconds if you know what youre doing) own a couple of properties (no jv and treat them as savings account lol) and have a e commerce business (which could be ran on the phone).
a 29 y/o who looks twice his age🤦🏽due to stress is a big no no for me.
i agree completely but e-comm is a risky business and to have 9-5 job where you can focus on other avenues of investing is gold !
Lol someone got Milked
this dude looks 43,, anyone can do this it s all about the first deal and that down payment then after that it s simple , banks give loans easily than a home deal,, it s all about deals and relationships in this business,,
When you have a deal and the relationships you can find the money! Money People Deal. Get 2 of the 3 and the rest is easy.
Wtf renovating 10 units for 600k
Dude looks 45 lol
29? This guy is aging like milk smh
Barry Daley whatever. Does everyone need to age like wine nowdays? He has been more focoused on his career no time for looks
you're worried about the wrong things
Hey Barry , what did you think about the project he’s working on ?