Electron Bill is such a good name. My grandfather in the early 1970s lived in Patchway near Bristol in England. He used to take me to a park called Little Stoke Park which is located on the east side of the airport. I was about 6-7 at the time, we would fly balsa wood airplanes near the trees at the north side of the park. Rolls-Royce would often test the Concord engines in buildings located between the park and the runway to the west. I can still see those buildings in my memory. The thunder from those engines must have made a great impression on me, all these years later this channel is one of my favorites.
The Brabazon hangars, where Concordes were built, are going to become a 17,000 seat arena, and the runway is being dug up to build houses and apartments. The new development is to be called ..... Brabazon. Rolls-Royce still has a facility there, but the workshops where Concorde's engines were built have gone, and the area is now a business park. The one small crumb of comfort is that the last Concorde to fly is in the Aerospace Bristol museum, housed in the old WW1 hangars on the north side of the former airfield site.
PS. It's all rather ironic: the village of Charlton was demolished to make way for the new runway at Filton, to accommodate the Brabazon airliner. Now the runway is being dug up for a new housing development - and there is also a housing development on the north side of the airfield site called Charlton Hayes.
Over our side of the pool the Avro Vulcan is very known for it's howl. I love the Jet sounds through ignition and each acceleration spool up stage, my favourite music, I direct sound from laptop through stereo, lovely
had the good fortune in 1967 [ish] at Dow AFB in bangor maine to witness a vulcan which diverted to Dow due to major winter storm. what a fascinating machine especially compared to the 135's and -52G's and 101's, T-29, F89's we had there. if ONLY they had made one pass as they left, alas, no, just a huge howl and off it went into the clouds..still, its burned in my memory banks.
the RR Allison 250 is one turbo-shaft is one jet engine where each stage is easy to make out like 15%N1 ignition sounds great, modern engine's it's harder to tell each stage
Stunning. WHo could have tought that someday someone will put a camera right in a jet exhaust dering start-up just to document the ignition phase ? That's beyond freaking cool.
I was well outta there by the time ignition took place. I just recorded the turbine beginning to move from zero up towards starting rpm. But it was exciting, and it's a cool shot, eh?
that was great, thanks, what an ignition, the GE J-79 is a magnificent turbo-jet, Jet-wash alley was well burnt and blasted, I would loved to witness it in person
Great video as always. By the way, love the XB-70 shirt! When I was a young pup, my family took a trip to Omaha, Nebraska and the SAC Airbase Museum and I was lucky enough to see the surviving XB-70. Somewhere I have photos I shot of it, I really need to find those. The museum had some amazing X planes and I was blown away by getting to see the actual planes I had read about in my early teens.
I know it is both a passion _and_ a job for you, Jay. Just want to thank you for the time and effort you put into sharing these amazing dinosaurs with all of us! 👍
Ahh, finally we are able to hear the roaring of the Bull again! We used to call the 104 the westfjord Bull because of the sound of the engine. It sounds like a roaring Bull.
Back in 1973 in W. Germany , those sounds would echo and howl through the low clouds as F- 4 's flew around the Base , I would think that sound it self would scare the pants off any enemy . I'll never forget it
I have seen that closed idle nozzle issue after an NAC change because it was rigged to a false spot (rig pin was in very deep but not locked in the correct spot).
I went to the Abingdon (near Oxford, England) Air and Country Show yesterday. It was a one-day show and nowhere near as grand as, say, Oshkosh, but it was an enjoyable day out after such events had been cancelled last year. For readers on the other side of the pond, we really enjoyed the display by a P-51D Mustang, which shaded the Spitfires, and the display by the Sally B, the only flying B-17 this side of the pond. And I didn't forget I didn't forget the significance of the date. My daughter stood on the observation deck of the South Tower on 8th September 2001, after a trip to South America, and she flew home the following day. Her original plan had been to stay in New York the following week .....
Awesome. Now I may be starting something here, but I always thought that a Spitfire could outfly its equivalent P51... I think the Mustang was more versatile, and they were both fantastic fighters, but I also think it's a real good thing they were both on the same side.
@@AgentJayZ I think that the Mustang was being flown just that little bit more adventurously than the Spitfires that were there, which I felt were being treated with just a little more caution. You might be interested to know that one Spitfire was in Russian colours, because it was originally Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union. I think that the Spitfire (the earlier marks anyway) was probably rather more manoeuvrable than the Mustang, but it didn't have the range. A Spitfire could out-turn a 109, but then a Hurricane could out-turn a Spitfire. Someone may comment on the problem with the early Merlin and its inability to take negative-G, but then Beatrice 'Tilly' Shilling devised what was usually referred to as "Miss Shilling's Orifice", rather than the its official title of the RAE Restrictor. Incidentally, she raced motor bikes before the war and sports cars after the war. PS With my son and family living nearby, I went to the Bournemouth Air Festival on 3 Sept. Close formation flying by a Spitfire, a P-51, a P-47 and a Hispano Bushon (a Merlin-engined 109) was particularly impressive.
@@AgentJayZ PPS I watched the repeat of a programme about the Spitfire last night. It was some years old and included interviews with both RAF and Luftwaffe pilots in their old age. Both sides confirmed that the Spitfire could turn tighter than the 109. However, the Luftwaffe pilots also confirmed that they could put the nose of their aircraft down and escape, while the RAF pilots confirmed that they had to half-roll to avoid negative-G.
I love a good howler! Reminds me of hearing the jets that flew over my house from MacDill AFB when I was a child in the late 60s/early 70s. I would love to trudge up to your testing facility with my portable digital audio multitrack recorder and some of the really good mics I have to catch the sounds of one of those beasts properly. It would be an absolute joy to have some proper full spectrum audio of one of those monsters.
I would love that. A professional could do a way better job than me. But, you would be surprised at the violence of the volume. We're talking 180 dB or more at 25 yards. Yes, I know it's a logarithmic scale. My videos do not do it justice. You are not ready for it.
@@AgentJayZ 180+ @ 25 yards? That's absolutely brutal. But with proper planning of mic type, location, and input gain, I know I could get what I, and many, would love to hear in full frequency stereo. I've never heard a decent recording of a Century Series engine. I chalk it up to folks not taking the time to do it, let alone doing it right. Either that or it isn't part of the plan.
You are way to kind to the viewer! Your level of detail on things is phenomenal. Please don’t put yourself in harms way obtaining shots like these!!! The close up clip was cool enough 👍
been watching these for a while and always amazed at the destruction along jet blast alley....... wonder if it would be worth pouring a strip of concrete or asphalt about the width of the door opening and 100ft long to stop the ditch that grows in the center .... probably not, but it would at least cut the dust somewhat... until the blast tore into it and sent chunks flying 100yds behind it
Jetwash Alley is a wasteland, constructed on a landfill. any construction that cost anything is never going to surpass the current solution, the price of which is nothing.
Great video. Could you explain what factors contribute to the sound of the engine for example at the 18:16 mark and even more pronounced at 19:52? If you’ve previously explained it and I’ve missed it, I’m sorry. I suspect it has something to do with all the blades maybe?
Boy, so many sub-versions of J79 :-) So, what´s the military thrust you measured of that -7 ? And the thrust with full-AB ? Btw, the howling is always impressive :-)
Gday Jay how things ? Heyaah thanks for sharing this testing video it was amazing eh , wonderful engine of Canadian J79 I can watch and tell how powerful of this engine , its through alots of grits stones and rocks at the back may up to 200 meters way back or may be more according to its powerful thrust force , now do you guys standing from the rear yard of that property affected by the sounds of this roar engine while operating like the loud noise and vibrations produced the engine roar , does it affected anyone outside ? No , all good , thats good , I can imagine myself standing out there I have to wear something to protect myself from stones and rocks specially my eyes eh , oh mate thats amazing , lucky the testing centre is the the middle of no where , out the country away from public no complain , anyway thanks again beautiful cheers mate
The people 10 miles downstream were probably wondering why it got so windy and the air wreaked of kerosene. Everybody else was wondering what the hell is making that sound..
Maybe a two part solution to the sound pressure level issue would work. A remote wireless mic at a point where the spl is around 100 db and then set the camera closer. There would be a delay at about 1millisecond per foot but that shouldn’t be an issue for this type material.
@@AgentJayZ A Senheiser MD 421 dynamic mic with a windscreen could probably handle that . It’s a bit expensive at around $400 but we use it successfully on close mic’d kick drums and Tom’s as well as close mic’d bass amps. There may be a music store in your area that would rent you one for a few days to try. There also available to rent online. It also has a built in eq circuit that you can set to ‘voice’ which will roll off the low end a bit.
its crazy how deep the trench has gotten at the test site over the years. next run take some different colored spray paints and paint lines to see how far the gravel gets launched
Are the fixed vanes at the front of the engine you photographed as the turbine spun down rotatable? Change their angle WRT the airflow. Cool video, and great giving credit for the work. Has to be a great payoff for this to happen, and I'm sure even better when the F104 flies again.
Well, it depends what you are asking about. The very first things the air encounters in the engine are the struts that locate the front bearing housing. They are fixed, because they are part of a large alloy casting that is called the front frame. They are not vanes. The inlet guide vanes are just after the struts. They are vanes, but they are not fixed. Their angle can be changed, and so they are called Variable Inlet Guide Vanes, Or VIGVs. Check out my video called Compressor Stall to see why they are that way.
Earlier model J79s had a variable nozzle that made a howling sound at medium power settings. Later models had a redesigned nozzle that eliminated the howl. Both versions were used in various models of the F-104.
So about 2.5 minutes from shutdown to coast to a stop (19:30 - 22:00). Cool!! Thank you, very much! Is that pretty typical for all the engines? In the last 30 seconds or so before coming to a stop, I can hear a click, click, click with each revolution. What is that? just one of the front compressor blades a little looser than the others, or something else mechanical? Or is it the playing card that's clothes-pinned onto one of the blades (spokes)? Ha ha. And as it gets real slow...clankity, clankity, clankity from all the blades shifting slight as they change from being dominated by centrifugal acceleration back to gravity...or I guess that's what it is? The author of a book, Phantom Over Vietnam, described this sound as the J79's came to a stop. Now I've heard it. Thanks! So, there's a PC flight simulator called DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) that features pretty detailed and amazing simulations of fighter jets. If they ever make an F-4 Phantom II or F-104 Starfighter for their sim, I think you could get some pretty detailed and accurate sounds of the J79 for that. Place high quality microphones on stands toward the front of the engine and to the side and aft, with maybe a big fluffy furry wind protector on them, and try to record nothing but the sounds of the engine...no talking or anything else, while you run a test. Would that be possible? Also video of the details in the exhaust during start-up and afterburner operation. I did not know that there was a substantial puff of flame in the exhaust as the J79 lights off. Do all engines do that? I've watched TPE331 engines start up at night on a Cessna 441. The exhaust would glow orange for a few seconds as started up. And the F-86 engine you tested puffed flame out the exhaust pipe when the burners lit. Was that a J47? In DCS simulation, their F-86F doesn't show that detail. Something they could add to make it all the more realistic. Maybe you have some good recordings of that engine running and coasting to a stop after shutdown?
Once per rev sounds are slightly longer turbine blade tips rubbing their seals. More than once per rev sounds as the speeds get real slow is the starter ratchet clutch. The details of these sounds are far too advance for any video game. One of the reasons I do not play flight "simulation" games is the engines always sound like a lawnmower or idling Cessna. It's worse than pathetic.
@@AgentJayZ So, it’s not the individual blades of the compressor stages that are loose and rattling? I got that idea from wiggling the blades of a cutaway, display engine in a museum. Did I get the wrong idea? :). Actually, I don’t remember if they were rotor blades or stator blades that were loose, or both? So the clickity-click is from the starter? Is that similar to clicking pawls in a bicycle hub?
There's a lot of things going on. The compressor blades are loose and they do contribute some noise. There's also a Honda single cylinder engine in the background, and sometimes also an air compressor as well. All of these sources of noise may become more or less noticeable throughout the rundown.
Does the nozzle move simultaneously with the throttle or as a function of throttle input? More throttle, nozzle closes? In the last video, the engine sounded like it went to idle, with the nozzle going full open, but an instant later, the afterburner came on with no movement of the nozzle. How does this happen? Do you guys have a button for the AB? Wouldn't the jet need to be at full rpm for the AB to be used? Can you explain how this all works together AgentJayZed, Zulu, Z? Thank you.
Exhaust nozzle is controlled by the engine main fuel control. It uses throttle position, rpm, EGT to move to optimize thrust in the flight range, and to minimize thrust while on the ground.
I have a few videos answering this question. It's disappointing you have not found them. The first suggestion is called So You Want to Work on Jets. You might not like it.
I have very clear memories from 1970 of F-105s at McGuire. That after run up of the J75's the afterburners would make a 'boom' 'boom' 'boom' as trios of F-105s would begin their take off roll. We didn't live too far from the flight line then. Is that something that just doesn't come through on your recordings? Or am I remembering incorrectly?
My recollection with the 102's, 106's and F4's was the J75 in the 106's had the most noticeable 'pop' but the afterburner noise of the F4's J79's was much more pronounced due to multiple engines, though it didn't seem to 'pop' on like the J75 did. That recollection comes from living at the end of a air base runway from the late 50's until early 80's and being deluged with noise pretty much daily . While watching, I was thinking of all those designers and constructors, mostly gone now, who really changed the world with those engines. What a wonderful legacy to leave. Kudos to the resurrection technicians for keeping them going.
@@AgentJayZ During winter the storm windows all around the house (and doors) would jump in sympathy making even more racket than usual when those guys went full afterburner. You would have loved it I'm sure. In addition to the new hardware like C-141s C-130s F-4s and the 105s there were still tons of C47 C124 and the like. I think my favorite were the many Super Constellations that were still in regular use then. Often there were 727s etc moving personnel around but of course the most amazing was the (very brand new) C-5 Galaxy with its magical ability to seemingly levitate upward at what looked like much too slow an airspeed.
I saw the Norwegian Starfighter at Telemark Airshow 2018, and believe I picked up something about the Starfighter being known for its smokey brown exhaust gases.
Full power is not a term used. I don't know why. Full military is also not used in the books. I don't know why. Military power is a term used. It means something like max continuous, but limited in time to 15 minutes... Takeoff power is usually the most available without afterburner, and is limited to 5 minutes... Afterburner is progressive from min to max. Most pilots I've seen take off in max AB, which could certainly be described as max power or full power, but it never is. I don't know why. I hope this makes everything perfectly clear... Yes, every description of every different engine, by every manufacturer... is a little different.
G'day, To thunk that I was browsing through the latest Stihl Catelogue last week, musing that a pair of their biggest (Backpack-sized) 3 Kw/Hour Chainsaw Batteries could, with a 10 Kw Electric Motor..., concievably allow my old Ultralight Motor-Glider to Take off and go up to a 1,000 or 2,000 ft & then float around for half an Houror so, and then spend a week recharging the Battery-Packs with Solar Panels - for another attempt to catch a Thermal and try to stay up for longer...; in order to go Flying without pumping any burned Fossils into the Sky...(if one conveniently ignores the Pollution involved in manufacturing all the Equipment involved...). Are you planning to keep behaving this way...; until the Extreme Weather Events come along and personally put a stop to such triflin' ways..., or is there some point whereinat you will voluntarily decide that enough people ALREADY have excelled at competing to shit in the Atmosphere, as to decide to do something which doesn't make every Problem faced by Humanity become ever more difficult to deal with...? Is there some point at which you will choose, in the light of ALL the Science, to stop doggedly and ever so skillfully working - to make everything keep getting worse, at an accelerating pace...? I'm not trolling you, so much as honestly enquiring about quite how far down this Flame-farting Track you're planning to go...; out of my own simple curiosity. Have you ever Googled, "Mega Cryo-Meteor" ? Think of Hailstones the size of Watermelons..., they appear from out of a clear blue Sky, arriving Supersonically, and within the clips I saw of 2 of them - one made a Car jump 6 ft into the Air with Suspension-Rebound, after instantly panelbeating the entire Roofline down to meet the Floorpan, with no gap between them, & reshaping the whole Porsche to resemble an Ashtray...; the other one broke through the concrete Basement Floor of a Two-Storey House, having gone through Roof, Ceiling, Upper-storey Floor, & Lower-storey Floor to get into the Basement...., and then go out through the Concrete...(!) When I was a kid, Hailstones as big as Golfballs made the National TV-News..., but nowadayze unless they're bigger than Baseballs they barely make the Local Newspapers - and it's at least 6 years since I first heard of Horses & Sheep dying in tje Paddock from Blunt Trauma in a Hailstorm...(!). Carbon Dioxide is just(ifiably ?) the Most AMAZING Stuff..., y'see ; release enough of it, and Everything CHANGES...(!). 2.75 Kilograms of CO-2 emitted per Litre of Kerosene burnt..., 2,5 Kg/Litre of Petrol, and 2.2 Kg/Litre of Liquified Natural Gas. And, every Exhaust Stroke of my Chainsaw, Brushcutter, backup Generator, Waterpump or Subaru Forester will take 25 years to finish achieving 95% of the Atmospheric Warming which it is goanna make happen, once I light the Fuel.... It's a worry. Because, EVERY Climate Scientist is exactly as clever and precisely as intelligent as were the people who knew enough to design & build all of the Technology which you so clearly pride yourself on being sufficiently snart as to be able to reliably disassemble, and put back together, and then have it still start up and run again, afterwards.... Which is what my father taught himself to do with a Model-A Ford Car, in 1926...; back when not many people had heard of Greenhouse Effect & Global Warming - though Popular Mechanics magazine (USA) published the first Tabloid Article about it, in 1912 - and Planetary Atmospheric Greenhouse Effect from burning Fossil Fuels was known about in "Scientific circles" since the 1880s... So my Old Man, born in 1909..., he had some sort of a reasonable "Excuse" (ie, genuine ignorance) regarding what his Life's Work as an Engine Reconditioner enabling other people to do horrible things to the Biosphere. But by the 1970s, NOBODY who made it through High School has had any such "Excuse" ; not outside of Denial & Rationalisation - both of which are pathological Psychiatric Signs of profoud illness, rather than being any valid methods of Reasoning... So, I wonder, how long are you planning to continue ploughing the screaming smoking tortured Furrow of Futility...; leading irresistably to a Planet on which Humanity cannot any longer maintain Civilisation, or Culture, if anybody can contrive to live sufficiently long as to manage to raise any offspring to be old enough to be able to breed...? It isn't as if you have any choice about stopping, in the Long Run...; but the question remaing at thus point is..., how much longer do YOU plan on individually making this Shitty Prognosis become forever worse ? Just(ifiably ?) wonderin'..., because you seem to otherwise be quite a nice bloke, and I have a curious turn of mind. Such is life, Have a good one..... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
Are J79-7 able to be modified to become similar to a -19? Like if you put in the new combustion liners, four manifold AB, and longer exit nozzle? Would it make as much thrust as a -19 and be smokeless?
Well, I only know a little about the -8, and it's fairly primitive compared to even a -15. Throughout the development of the J79, many improvements were incorporated. The metallurgy of the turbine blades in particular. the design of the compressor stators, and the airfoil shape of the compressor blades. The air cooled turbine inlet vanes. I think if you put all the modern parts on a -7, you would get within 1000lbs of thrust of a -19, but you would have spent more than what you would on a half decent -19. Possible? yes Economically feasible? Ah, that's a different question. The conversion of a smokey -7 to a clean running -7 would be simple, and since it's probably for airshow display, I recommend keeping the howler nozzle. The fans love it.
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Electron Bill is such a good name. My grandfather in the early 1970s lived in Patchway near Bristol in England. He used to take me to a park called Little Stoke Park which is located on the east side of the airport. I was about 6-7 at the time, we would fly balsa wood airplanes near the trees at the north side of the park. Rolls-Royce would often test the Concord engines in buildings located between the park and the runway to the west. I can still see those buildings in my memory. The thunder from those engines must have made a great impression on me, all these years later this channel is one of my favorites.
The Brabazon hangars, where Concordes were built, are going to become a 17,000 seat arena, and the runway is being dug up to build houses and apartments. The new development is to be called ..... Brabazon.
Rolls-Royce still has a facility there, but the workshops where Concorde's engines were built have gone, and the area is now a business park.
The one small crumb of comfort is that the last Concorde to fly is in the Aerospace Bristol museum, housed in the old WW1 hangars on the north side of the former airfield site.
@@grahamj9101 Thanks for the info. So where to RR test their engines these days?
@@saxonlight There's still the remains of a test site at Patchway, but many of the redundant test beds have been demolished.
PS. It's all rather ironic: the village of Charlton was demolished to make way for the new runway at Filton, to accommodate the Brabazon airliner. Now the runway is being dug up for a new housing development - and there is also a housing development on the north side of the airfield site called Charlton Hayes.
it is truly awesome how much air that machine can move
155 lbs per second... from stationary to supersonic.
What a lovely sound!!!! I can't wait to hear it live again!!!
So proud to be Canadian 👍👍. Great video.
Thank,s for your work. Norway loves you ;-)
I am an Engine Mechanic an I've tested the J79-J1K and -17 in the 1970th. It's an amazing engine.
I Like that XB-70 shirt!!
So fascinating to see these beauties still running smooth. Loved the puff.. Thanks for these fantastic videos!!
Over our side of the pool the Avro Vulcan is very known for it's howl.
I love the Jet sounds through ignition and each acceleration spool up stage,
my favourite music, I direct sound from laptop through stereo, lovely
had the good fortune in 1967 [ish] at Dow AFB in bangor maine to witness a vulcan which diverted to Dow due to major winter storm. what a fascinating machine especially compared to the 135's and -52G's and 101's, T-29, F89's we had there. if ONLY they had made one pass as they left, alas, no, just a huge howl and off it went into the clouds..still, its burned in my memory banks.
the RR Allison 250 is one turbo-shaft is one jet engine where each stage is easy to make out like 15%N1 ignition sounds great,
modern engine's it's harder to tell each stage
I'm Norwegian so this is very cool!
Thanks, J Zed. Good way to start my day.
Stunning. WHo could have tought that someday someone will put a camera right in a jet exhaust dering start-up just to document the ignition phase ? That's beyond freaking cool.
I was well outta there by the time ignition took place. I just recorded the turbine beginning to move from zero up towards starting rpm.
But it was exciting, and it's a cool shot, eh?
Thanks for sharing. A thunderous start to the day. 🇬🇧
that was great, thanks, what an ignition,
the GE J-79 is a magnificent turbo-jet,
Jet-wash alley was well burnt and blasted, I would loved to witness it in person
Great video as always. By the way, love the XB-70 shirt! When I was a young pup, my family took a trip to Omaha, Nebraska and the SAC Airbase Museum and I was lucky enough to see the surviving XB-70. Somewhere I have photos I shot of it, I really need to find those. The museum had some amazing X planes and I was blown away by getting to see the actual planes I had read about in my early teens.
Wow, what a hot rod. Great work guys and thanks for sharing.
I know it is both a passion _and_ a job for you, Jay.
Just want to thank you for the time and effort you put into sharing these amazing dinosaurs with all of us! 👍
very cool! amazing that it's almost a 70 year old design.
J79 has the Best sound around.
Just amazing to watch these videos on the J79!
Ahh, finally we are able to hear the roaring of the Bull again! We used to call the 104 the westfjord Bull because of the sound of the engine. It sounds like a roaring Bull.
Back in 1973 in W. Germany , those sounds would echo and howl through the low clouds as F- 4 's flew around the Base , I would think that sound it self would scare the pants off any enemy . I'll never forget it
I have seen that closed idle nozzle issue after an NAC change because it was rigged to a false spot (rig pin was in very deep but not locked in the correct spot).
I’ve seen that, rigged to the back side of the cam.
I went to the Abingdon (near Oxford, England) Air and Country Show yesterday. It was a one-day show and nowhere near as grand as, say, Oshkosh, but it was an enjoyable day out after such events had been cancelled last year. For readers on the other side of the pond, we really enjoyed the display by a P-51D Mustang, which shaded the Spitfires, and the display by the Sally B, the only flying B-17 this side of the pond.
And I didn't forget I didn't forget the significance of the date. My daughter stood on the observation deck of the South Tower on 8th September 2001, after a trip to South America, and she flew home the following day. Her original plan had been to stay in New York the following week .....
Awesome.
Now I may be starting something here, but I always thought that a Spitfire could outfly its equivalent P51...
I think the Mustang was more versatile, and they were both fantastic fighters, but I also think it's a real good thing they were both on the same side.
@@AgentJayZ I think that the Mustang was being flown just that little bit more adventurously than the Spitfires that were there, which I felt were being treated with just a little more caution. You might be interested to know that one Spitfire was in Russian colours, because it was originally Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union.
I think that the Spitfire (the earlier marks anyway) was probably rather more manoeuvrable than the Mustang, but it didn't have the range. A Spitfire could out-turn a 109, but then a Hurricane could out-turn a Spitfire.
Someone may comment on the problem with the early Merlin and its inability to take negative-G, but then Beatrice 'Tilly' Shilling devised what was usually referred to as "Miss Shilling's Orifice", rather than the its official title of the RAE Restrictor. Incidentally, she raced motor bikes before the war and sports cars after the war.
PS With my son and family living nearby, I went to the Bournemouth Air Festival on 3 Sept. Close formation flying by a Spitfire, a P-51, a P-47 and a Hispano Bushon (a Merlin-engined 109) was particularly impressive.
@@AgentJayZ PPS I watched the repeat of a programme about the Spitfire last night. It was some years old and included interviews with both RAF and Luftwaffe pilots in their old age. Both sides confirmed that the Spitfire could turn tighter than the 109. However, the Luftwaffe pilots also confirmed that they could put the nose of their aircraft down and escape, while the RAF pilots confirmed that they had to half-roll to avoid negative-G.
Loved it.
I love a good howler! Reminds me of hearing the jets that flew over my house from MacDill AFB when I was a child in the late 60s/early 70s. I would love to trudge up to your testing facility with my portable digital audio multitrack recorder and some of the really good mics I have to catch the sounds of one of those beasts properly. It would be an absolute joy to have some proper full spectrum audio of one of those monsters.
I would love that. A professional could do a way better job than me. But, you would be surprised at the violence of the volume. We're talking 180 dB or more at 25 yards.
Yes, I know it's a logarithmic scale.
My videos do not do it justice.
You are not ready for it.
@@AgentJayZ 180+ @ 25 yards? That's absolutely brutal. But with proper planning of mic type, location, and input gain, I know I could get what I, and many, would love to hear in full frequency stereo. I've never heard a decent recording of a Century Series engine. I chalk it up to folks not taking the time to do it, let alone doing it right. Either that or it isn't part of the plan.
You are welcome to try...
You are not ready for what you are about to experience.
Very great shot starting at 21:14 showing the variable vanes.
I'm following you from Egypt ❤️
J79 HOWLER... How I miss'em! 👏🏽👍🏼☺️
CF-104D Starfighter "637" LN-STF !
Multi-Purpose Walter, now there is a cool title. 👍
Poor thing could do with the Full S&S treatment clean engine is a happy engine !! still superb though as always Thanks Gents
The Montreal Air Museum has a Starfighter for restoration. Sadly we don't have the engine.
We've got a few. Contact S&S Turbines
You are way to kind to the viewer! Your level of detail on things is phenomenal. Please don’t put yourself in harms way obtaining shots like these!!! The close up clip was cool enough 👍
Been watching for a while and I'm not sure but I feel like a video about APU's would be cool and how they add to a airliner situation
... Just what I/we work on...
If the fuel tank has a sight gauge, it would be interesting to watch it when a J79 is running on afterburner.
I have seen a video from a modern fighter at mach 1 were you could actually see it move, not much but easily see it.
So einen geilen Fön würd ich auch gern zuhause haben 😎
19:12 Probably the only video of the engine data plate of a J79 taken while the engine is running. :)
This channel has a lot of "only"s...
That engine sounds haunted.
It's eerie!
If I'm not mistaken it belongs to this Norwegian CF104D (LN-STF): th-cam.com/video/lcS_NfZ8Hsg/w-d-xo.html
Is the engine for LN-STF? I've wanted to see her for some time now!
Yes.
been watching these for a while and always amazed at the destruction along jet blast alley....... wonder if it would be worth pouring a strip of concrete or asphalt about the width of the door opening and 100ft long to stop the ditch that grows in the center .... probably not, but it would at least cut the dust somewhat... until the blast tore into it and sent chunks flying 100yds behind it
Jetwash Alley is a wasteland, constructed on a landfill. any construction that cost anything is never going to surpass the current solution, the price of which is nothing.
@@AgentJayZ Currently Jetwash Alley is an expensive landscaping experiment. Who knows how deep it will get or how far it will go!
Great video. Could you explain what factors contribute to the sound of the engine for example at the 18:16 mark and even more pronounced at 19:52? If you’ve previously explained it and I’ve missed it, I’m sorry. I suspect it has something to do with all the blades maybe?
Who knows... Everybody has a theory. I have given my opinion throughout quite a few videos.
Boy, so many sub-versions of J79 :-) So, what´s the military thrust you measured of that -7 ? And the thrust with full-AB ? Btw, the howling is always impressive :-)
I think the -7 is the same configuration as the 11A version.
Gday Jay how things ? Heyaah thanks for sharing this testing video it was amazing eh , wonderful engine of Canadian J79 I can watch and tell how powerful of this engine , its through alots of grits stones and rocks at the back may up to 200 meters way back or may be more according to its powerful thrust force , now do you guys standing from the rear yard of that property affected by the sounds of this roar engine while operating like the loud noise and vibrations produced the engine roar , does it affected anyone outside ? No , all good , thats good , I can imagine myself standing out there I have to wear something to protect myself from stones and rocks specially my eyes eh , oh mate thats amazing , lucky the testing centre is the the middle of no where , out the country away from public no complain , anyway thanks again beautiful cheers mate
The people 10 miles downstream were probably wondering why it got so windy and the air wreaked of kerosene. Everybody else was wondering what the hell is making that sound..
Maybe a two part solution to the sound pressure level issue would work. A remote wireless mic at a point where the spl is around 100 db and then set the camera closer. There would be a delay at about 1millisecond per foot but that shouldn’t be an issue for this type material.
That would be over 200m away. I'm at 120 here, and the sound is no good. Need a tougher mic at a closer distance.
@@AgentJayZ A Senheiser MD 421 dynamic mic with a windscreen could probably handle that . It’s a bit expensive at around $400 but we use it successfully on close mic’d kick drums and Tom’s as well as close mic’d bass amps. There may be a music store in your area that would rent you one for a few days to try. There also available to rent online. It also has a built in eq circuit that you can set to ‘voice’ which will roll off the low end a bit.
The success of a test is measured in tonnes of material moved along jet-blast alley?
its crazy how deep the trench has gotten at the test site over the years. next run take some different colored spray paints and paint lines to see how far the gravel gets launched
Next time, we'll put you there and measure the erosive force of supersonic gases by the nature and the volume of your shrieks and screams.
@@AgentJayZ sitting in a lazy boy with my tie flying back
@@imchris5000 Maxell > Memorex
Is there already some news about the Dutch Starfighter J79 engine, or did I miss something
Orendous.
☺😉
Are the fixed vanes at the front of the engine you photographed as the turbine spun down rotatable? Change their angle WRT the airflow.
Cool video, and great giving credit for the work. Has to be a great payoff for this to happen, and I'm sure even better when the F104 flies again.
Well, it depends what you are asking about.
The very first things the air encounters in the engine are the struts that locate the front bearing housing.
They are fixed, because they are part of a large alloy casting that is called the front frame. They are not vanes.
The inlet guide vanes are just after the struts. They are vanes, but they are not fixed. Their angle can be changed, and so they are called Variable Inlet Guide Vanes, Or VIGVs.
Check out my video called Compressor Stall to see why they are that way.
@@AgentJayZ I asked w/o looking up terms, and you answered my question. I was asking about the VIGVs.
At 19:06, what is the purpose of the clear tubing around the bell mouth?
Those are used to measure air pressure, which will be slightly lower than ambient, but not as low as it would be without a bell mouth inlet.
Is this variant of the J79 where the F-104 "howl" originates or was it the Starfighter's airframe that made that sound.
Earlier model J79s had a variable nozzle that made a howling sound at medium power settings.
Later models had a redesigned nozzle that eliminated the howl. Both versions were used in various models of the F-104.
@AgentJayZ *Thank You* 😌
So about 2.5 minutes from shutdown to coast to a stop (19:30 - 22:00). Cool!! Thank you, very much! Is that pretty typical for all the engines? In the last 30 seconds or so before coming to a stop, I can hear a click, click, click with each revolution. What is that? just one of the front compressor blades a little looser than the others, or something else mechanical? Or is it the playing card that's clothes-pinned onto one of the blades (spokes)? Ha ha. And as it gets real slow...clankity, clankity, clankity from all the blades shifting slight as they change from being dominated by centrifugal acceleration back to gravity...or I guess that's what it is?
The author of a book, Phantom Over Vietnam, described this sound as the J79's came to a stop. Now I've heard it. Thanks!
So, there's a PC flight simulator called DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) that features pretty detailed and amazing simulations of fighter jets. If they ever make an F-4 Phantom II or F-104 Starfighter for their sim, I think you could get some pretty detailed and accurate sounds of the J79 for that. Place high quality microphones on stands toward the front of the engine and to the side and aft, with maybe a big fluffy furry wind protector on them, and try to record nothing but the sounds of the engine...no talking or anything else, while you run a test. Would that be possible? Also video of the details in the exhaust during start-up and afterburner operation. I did not know that there was a substantial puff of flame in the exhaust as the J79 lights off. Do all engines do that? I've watched TPE331 engines start up at night on a Cessna 441. The exhaust would glow orange for a few seconds as started up. And the F-86 engine you tested puffed flame out the exhaust pipe when the burners lit. Was that a J47? In DCS simulation, their F-86F doesn't show that detail. Something they could add to make it all the more realistic. Maybe you have some good recordings of that engine running and coasting to a stop after shutdown?
Once per rev sounds are slightly longer turbine blade tips rubbing their seals. More than once per rev sounds as the speeds get real slow is the starter ratchet clutch.
The details of these sounds are far too advance for any video game.
One of the reasons I do not play flight "simulation" games is the engines always sound like a lawnmower or idling Cessna.
It's worse than pathetic.
@@AgentJayZ So, it’s not the individual blades of the compressor stages that are loose and rattling? I got that idea from wiggling the blades of a cutaway, display engine in a museum. Did I get the wrong idea? :). Actually, I don’t remember if they were rotor blades or stator blades that were loose, or both?
So the clickity-click is from the starter? Is that similar to clicking pawls in a bicycle hub?
There's a lot of things going on. The compressor blades are loose and they do contribute some noise.
There's also a Honda single cylinder engine in the background, and sometimes also an air compressor as well. All of these sources of noise may become more or less noticeable throughout the rundown.
Wow' was the Norwegian fighter government or privately owned if I can ask? Thanks Dan
I believe it's a privately funded non-profit preservation society.
@@AgentJayZ Thanks bro & holiday ((hug)), yo da main man. ;)
@@vrendus522 Did you really think Norway still uses the Starfighter in the AirForce, lmao?
I agree
How do you guys have any hearing left?
Earplugs, with defenders on top of them.
i wondered was it intended for the cf104d that based at Bodø that actually flew.
So we can get J-79s but not air conditioning lines from a Kenworth.
A dinosaur making dinosaur sounds while burning dinosaurs!
Does the nozzle move simultaneously with the throttle or as a function of throttle input? More throttle, nozzle closes? In the last video, the engine sounded like it went to idle, with the nozzle going full open, but an instant later, the afterburner came on with no movement of the nozzle. How does this happen? Do you guys have a button for the AB? Wouldn't the jet need to be at full rpm for the AB to be used? Can you explain how this all works together AgentJayZed, Zulu, Z? Thank you.
Exhaust nozzle is controlled by the engine main fuel control. It uses throttle position, rpm, EGT to move to optimize thrust in the flight range, and to minimize thrust while on the ground.
@@AgentJayZ Thanks for the reply.
How does one get a job doing something like this? I very nearly have a BS in Applied Physics and would like to do this kind of work!
I have a few videos answering this question. It's disappointing you have not found them. The first suggestion is called So You Want to Work on Jets.
You might not like it.
@@AgentJayZ Thank you! I am new(ish) to your channel, but I will absolutely check out those as well as your other previous videos 👍🏼
I have very clear memories from 1970 of F-105s at McGuire. That after run up of the J75's the afterburners would make a 'boom' 'boom' 'boom' as trios of F-105s would begin their take off roll. We didn't live too far from the flight line then. Is that something that just doesn't come through on your recordings? Or am I remembering incorrectly?
I have no experience with the J75, so I can't give you an answer.
My recollection with the 102's, 106's and F4's was the J75 in the 106's had the most noticeable 'pop' but the afterburner noise of the F4's J79's was much more pronounced due to multiple engines, though it didn't seem to 'pop' on like the J75 did. That recollection comes from living at the end of a air base runway from the late 50's until early 80's and being deluged with noise pretty much daily
.
While watching, I was thinking of all those designers and constructors, mostly gone now, who really changed the world with those engines. What a wonderful legacy to leave. Kudos to the resurrection technicians for keeping them going.
@@AgentJayZ During winter the storm windows all around the house (and doors) would jump in sympathy making even more racket than usual when those guys went full afterburner. You would have loved it I'm sure. In addition to the new hardware like C-141s C-130s F-4s and the 105s there were still tons of C47 C124 and the like. I think my favorite were the many Super Constellations that were still in regular use then. Often there were 727s etc moving personnel around but of course the most amazing was the (very brand new) C-5 Galaxy with its magical ability to seemingly levitate upward at what looked like much too slow an airspeed.
How close to flight-ready??
Is this the engine for the 637? Or for another one?
The exhaust seemed a bit smokey.
I saw the Norwegian Starfighter at Telemark Airshow 2018, and believe I picked up something about the Starfighter being known for its smokey brown exhaust gases.
Can someone explain to me please the difference between full power and full military power.
Full power is not a term used. I don't know why. Full military is also not used in the books. I don't know why.
Military power is a term used. It means something like max continuous, but limited in time to 15 minutes...
Takeoff power is usually the most available without afterburner, and is limited to 5 minutes...
Afterburner is progressive from min to max.
Most pilots I've seen take off in max AB, which could certainly be described as max power or full power, but it never is.
I don't know why.
I hope this makes everything perfectly clear...
Yes, every description of every different engine, by every manufacturer... is a little different.
Oh is it the only Norwegian flying Starfighter
G'day,
To thunk that I was browsing through the latest Stihl Catelogue last week, musing that a pair of their biggest (Backpack-sized) 3 Kw/Hour Chainsaw Batteries could, with a 10 Kw Electric Motor..., concievably allow my old Ultralight Motor-Glider to Take off and go up to a 1,000 or 2,000 ft & then float around for half an Houror so, and then spend a week recharging the Battery-Packs with Solar Panels - for another attempt to catch a Thermal and try to stay up for longer...; in order to go Flying without pumping any burned Fossils into the Sky...(if one conveniently ignores the Pollution involved in manufacturing all the Equipment involved...).
Are you planning to keep behaving this way...; until the Extreme Weather Events come along and personally put a stop to such triflin' ways..., or is there some point whereinat you will voluntarily decide that enough people ALREADY have excelled at competing to shit in the Atmosphere, as to decide to do something which doesn't make every Problem faced by Humanity become ever more difficult to deal with...?
Is there some point at which you will choose, in the light of ALL the Science, to stop doggedly and ever so skillfully working - to make everything keep getting worse, at an accelerating pace...?
I'm not trolling you, so much as honestly enquiring about quite how far down this Flame-farting Track you're planning to go...; out of my own simple curiosity.
Have you ever Googled,
"Mega Cryo-Meteor" ?
Think of Hailstones the size of Watermelons..., they appear from out of a clear blue Sky, arriving Supersonically, and within the clips I saw of 2 of them - one made a Car jump 6 ft into the Air with Suspension-Rebound, after instantly panelbeating the entire Roofline down to meet the Floorpan, with no gap between them, & reshaping the whole Porsche to resemble an Ashtray...; the other one broke through the concrete Basement Floor of a Two-Storey House, having gone through Roof, Ceiling, Upper-storey Floor, & Lower-storey Floor to get into the Basement...., and then go out through the Concrete...(!)
When I was a kid, Hailstones as big as Golfballs made the National TV-News..., but nowadayze unless they're bigger than Baseballs they barely make the Local Newspapers - and it's at least 6 years since I first heard of Horses & Sheep dying in tje Paddock from Blunt Trauma in a Hailstorm...(!).
Carbon Dioxide is just(ifiably ?) the Most AMAZING Stuff..., y'see ; release enough of it, and Everything CHANGES...(!).
2.75 Kilograms of CO-2 emitted per Litre of Kerosene burnt..., 2,5 Kg/Litre of Petrol, and 2.2 Kg/Litre of Liquified Natural Gas.
And, every Exhaust Stroke of my Chainsaw, Brushcutter, backup Generator, Waterpump or Subaru Forester will take 25 years to finish achieving 95% of the Atmospheric Warming which it is goanna make happen, once I light the Fuel....
It's a worry.
Because, EVERY Climate Scientist is exactly as clever and precisely as intelligent as were the people who knew enough to design & build all of the Technology which you so clearly pride yourself on being sufficiently snart as to be able to reliably disassemble, and put back together, and then have it still start up and run again, afterwards....
Which is what my father taught himself to do with a Model-A Ford Car, in 1926...; back when not many people had heard of Greenhouse Effect & Global Warming - though Popular Mechanics magazine (USA) published the first Tabloid Article about it, in 1912 - and Planetary Atmospheric Greenhouse Effect from burning Fossil Fuels was known about in "Scientific circles" since the 1880s...
So my Old Man, born in 1909..., he had some sort of a reasonable "Excuse" (ie, genuine ignorance) regarding what his Life's Work as an Engine Reconditioner enabling other people to do horrible things to the Biosphere.
But by the 1970s, NOBODY who made it through High School has had any such "Excuse" ; not outside of Denial & Rationalisation - both of which are pathological Psychiatric Signs of profoud illness, rather than being any valid methods of Reasoning...
So, I wonder, how long are you planning to continue ploughing the screaming smoking tortured Furrow of Futility...; leading irresistably to a Planet on which Humanity cannot any longer maintain Civilisation, or Culture, if anybody can contrive to live sufficiently long as to manage to raise any offspring to be old enough to be able to breed...?
It isn't as if you have any choice about stopping, in the Long Run...; but the question remaing at thus point is..., how much longer do YOU plan on individually making this Shitty Prognosis become forever worse ?
Just(ifiably ?) wonderin'..., because you seem to otherwise be quite a nice bloke, and I have a curious turn of mind.
Such is life,
Have a good one.....
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
Are J79-7 able to be modified to become similar to a -19? Like if you put in the new combustion liners, four manifold AB, and longer exit nozzle? Would it make as much thrust as a -19 and be smokeless?
Well, I only know a little about the -8, and it's fairly primitive compared to even a -15.
Throughout the development of the J79, many improvements were incorporated.
The metallurgy of the turbine blades in particular. the design of the compressor stators, and the airfoil shape of the compressor blades. The air cooled turbine inlet vanes.
I think if you put all the modern parts on a -7, you would get within 1000lbs of thrust of a -19, but you would have spent more than what you would on a half decent -19.
Possible? yes
Economically feasible? Ah, that's a different question.
The conversion of a smokey -7 to a clean running -7 would be simple, and since it's probably for airshow display, I recommend keeping the howler nozzle. The fans love it.
AgentJayZ very interesting and thanks for the response!
rollin coal
Great video, as always! I guess this would be the actual application of that very engine? th-cam.com/video/5XYQflpE-b8/w-d-xo.html
Havy duty... Uhh///