The science of music | Vidyadhar Oke | TEDxIITGandhinagar
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2014
- This talk was given at a local TEDx event, produced independently of the TED Conferences. Dr. Oke unfolds his explorative journey in the Science of Music which led to the discovery of the mathematics underlying the natural 22 musical notes (22 shrutis). The shrutis are prevalent in nature for thousands of years and are derived from a single fundamental tone (Shadja). He also explains the simple mathematics of nature that enables one to play these 22 notes accurately on any string instrument.
Being a medical doctor by qualification, and having worked as the Medical Director/President for companies such as Burroughs Wellcome, Glaxo, Wockhardt and Nicholas Piramal, Dr. Oke has contributed profusely to the pharmaceutical field. Interestingly, he is also a renowned figure in Indian classical music and has done exemplary research on microtones (shrutis). He has invented and patented world’s first set of 22 shruti musical instruments and is honored with several awards for his substantial contribution. Besides these, he is an expert in Indian, European and Chinese astrology and has authored 2 books on the Chinese astrological systems.
About TEDx, x = independently organized event In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and regulations)
![ทัศนศึกษาโรงงานผลิตโค้ก [THAI/ENG SUB]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M9y-TJBNem0/mqdefault.jpg)
What a presentation. I just marvel at the nature. Natural shrutis of 2k years perfectly matching modern Shrutis based on mathematical science. That's in simple terms, positive and negative making a circuit. Dr. Oke is just a genius.
...after many years studying music and playing guitar I understand that I can't nothing and don't know about anything...
at 19 November 2019 I started to learn Bansuri ,this brings me to another world and show me different horizon...
Hare Krishna 🙏💜🕉️
This is extremely fascinating. The notion that the European 12 note scale is actually a dissonant scale is, frankly, mind blowing!
Dear Sir,
Please see my video on TH-cam : 'Dr.Vidyadhar Oke 22 shruti harmonium', to actually hear the dissonance of European 12-Note Equitempered Scale and the sublime consonance of Indian Natural 22 Note Scale. Thanks.
Dr.Oke
Thank you. I have watched the video. Very interesting. Although I am not a raga musician, I am a tabla player and tuning interests me. I am also a student of astrology and some mystical aspects of Indian philosophy. The fact that the European scale results in dissonant rather than consonant intervals has some deep resonance with certain insights I have gathered - which I will not discuss here as it is somewhat controversial subject. If interested in discussing, please get in touch with me via email: shivabreathes at gmail dot com. Thank you.
It is indeed extremely fascinating, it has completely changed the way I listen and compose music. I just wish we could convince more people that equal temperament is horrible...
Nature is really a great
Master. It is very amezing.
Mr. Vidyadhar Oke. has to
be giving due credit for
his Discovery.
Thanks a lot.Namaste.
& lots of Blessings.
Wonderful disclosures on music!! Sheer magic!! 👍 👍 🌹 🌹
This is brilliant! Thanks very much, Sir!
Great to see you here
Great work Doctor Oke
Just Excellent, insightful
Woww!!! Very interesting - quite impressive presentation 👍👌👏
Thanks Sir...very nice research
Great lesson . Thank you so much ! May God bless you with endless creativity ! ❤
It is Very Useful For All Of Us 🙏🌺Wonderful Admairable Video 🙏🌺Thanks 🙏🌺
Thank you so much sir for this informative sharing...
Wow congratulations sir
n thank u very much 🙏
Brilliant presentation.
superb video
Superb, music is maths of sound.
Wonderful!!
Sai Ram Narsimha Beta Ji 🙏🌺Thank you So Much For Sharing This Important Message Reallly We All Will Gain ExtremelyBeautiful Knowledge From These Instrctions 🙏👌👍Wah Superb Admairable Instrctions n HeartTouching Lovely video 🙏Very Helpful 🙏I Liked Very Much 🙏🌺Yes All Treasure Is Hidden In it 🙏🙏♥️🌺🙏
hats off to you Panditji.............out of box........100s of books written ...this is something extraordinary..........I am not a musician but do follows many classical vocalists. thanks a ton, keep you research get going
thank you
wonderful explanation and an eye opener !! your research is remarkable !! thank you so much for such an innovation , explaining the difference between western music and Indian music in terms of mathematics
8:15 G note for sampling
Wonderful explanation of the science of musical notes.
That was a wonderful explanation of basic notes in two different musical systems. The mathematical basis is precisely explained by Dr. Oke and kudos to him for this brilliant expose'. Keep up the good work Dr. Oke. Hope people interested in music would try to understand the true value of this original research and fundamental differences in the two systems used in the world--East & West. This should enhance the understanding of science and the art of music.
Excellent
Very informative educative & interesting. That is why Indian classical music is above all.
Well, let's not go that far. Indian Classical Music of 22 shrutis has purer notes and harmonies than the European Equitempered scale. Dr.Oke
When a musician or singer is asked "Have you learned Indian Classical Music ?" what is meant is "Have you mastered the 22 Shrutis on your instrument or voice chords..!
Or better yet, "can you bring your listeners and yourself to a state of bliss?"
Thank you tedX
And thankyou shree vidhyadhar oke ji to demonstrate an important thing in such a simple and effectiv way...
धन्यवाद
That is amazing
extremely fascinating...….
Can I buy one of these harmoniums?
Oh what a research and innovation have u made & also instruments according to the mathematics of interval of 22 enharmonies(shrutis)! i think this will be also useful for south indian performers as they r rendering between 16 srutis.Ustad bade sahebkha.congrates to u sir.would like to meet by fon or in person.
Most of the words I heard for the first time in my life.
congratulations for the patent!!
It is not true that the western music is not aware of it. Equally tempered tuning was adopted over just intonation as a convenience (else a piece written on a particular key won't sound the same when played on a different key - when musically transposed). A 22 notes harmonium could be a novel one but most of the synthesizers and music workstations allow the musicians to tune the keys independently resulting in the same provision. I do have a couple of them and Roland Juno-G is one among them! Music being a fully developed language well before written language had a golden time in the ancient era. We are only trying to rediscover it now!
This was an extremely informative and interesting video.dr oke has throughly explained it and has done a fantabulous job inventing the 22 shrutis harmonium.
Bharat muni ji's invention of the string music of 22 shrutis is wonderful and magical.our ancient Guru's were geniuses 🙏🙏
A fascinating presentation. The equally tempered European scale is indeed out of tune, but it is a compromise that makes complicated harmony possible in all keys. However the true intervals of the Indian 22 shruti has a more hypnotic sound due to the pure intervals. But an extended harmonic vocabulary would be incredibly complicated with this temperament, beyond human capacity. The beats associated with the slightly out of tune equal temperament give a piquancy and richness to the sound, although the seductive, almost eerie purity of the true intervals is lost.
Musical temperament is such a huge subject, maybe future generations will find better solutions. But for now, I am stuck with the 12 note compromise, which is what I've learned and all I really know.
Oh... there is nothing wrong with European 12-Tone Equitempered Scale except that it is completely inappropriate for Indian Classical Music. Dr.Oke
Then what should to be followed in bollywood or light songs in india ? Indian 100,125,150 ratio or western equitemperd???? Please clear .
@ Vidyadhar Oke, Sir brilliant work. Hats off to the research and work you have done. You must present once on insync and more on youtube.
Would there be a connection between the sa re ga ma with the electronic orbitals of an atom ? and also the modified harmoniums are available in the market?
Yes, 22 Shruti Harmoniums are available with me (dr.oke@22shruti.com), as they are to be customized. As regards the relationship between SRGM and an Atom, I would be keen to know that myself. Thanks for comments. Dr.Oke
So if I'm not wrong, the first two qualities of komal re are in ratios lnguage: 243/256 and 15/16. The first being a so called pythagorean semitone a Limma in the ancient Greek music theory and the latter is a so called just classical semitone, the difference between a just major 3rd and a perfect 4th, or the difference beetween GA and MA
And the difference beetween the two is a 80/81 interval, also known in the west as a Dydimus or syntonic comma. All this is beautyfull
What's the name of the first instrument? Harmonium is that box but what's the board with strings?
Veena.... It's a primitive form of fretted veena. It looks like a custom made string instrument made with string length 100cm so that he can easily mark length percentages....like 74% etc. You can see the tape on top. This was probably made for ease of demonstration.
This is a wonderful piece of research and it also has a commercial aspect. As the western scale (on a harmonium) is equi-tempered, the same instrument can be used to accompany different singers who have different frequency ranges and different tonic note (Sa). This advantage is lost in a 22-shruti harmonium. Every singer needs to carry his own instrument tuned individually for his range and his tonic note. This increases the market for harmoniums manifold. Am I right, Dr. Oke?
Dear Shriram,
I am afraid, you are wrong.The advantage of 22-Shruti-Harmonium in Indian Classical Music is that it gives 22 accurate notes for a singer in 3 scales (Shadja/Madhyam/Pancham), whereas the disadvantage of a western harmonium is that it gives 12 wrong (inaccurate) notes in all 12 scales for all the singers ! Very few understand the quality of this research and decide to use a 22-Shruti-Harmonium......till they see and hear the instrument in person. Dr.Oke
Vidyadhar Oke Dear DR. Oke, Thank you very much for your kind response. I had attended your excellent lecture-demonstration at Anushaktinagar I very well understand
that for an individual singer the 22-shruti harmonium will give 22 ACCURATE notes to accompany him once a Sa has been selected. The frequencies of the 22 notes are based on this Sa. But another singer will have his tonic (Sa) at a different pitch. Now can he use the same harmonium or will he have to purchase a different harmonium suitable for him individually? Any western type of harmonium tuned in a the equitempered way works for every singer( though the notes are inaccurate) and many well reputed classical singers still use it and the audience does not find it all that jarring. I hope I have made myself clear enough. Yes I repeat a 22-shruti-harmonium is certainly a better option beyond any doubt but as I understand, the same instrument possibly can not be used by every singer. Once the singer changes the instrument needs to be changed. Sir, your view on this particular aspect will be highly appreciated.
Dear Shriram,
As I already mentioned, the 22 Shruti-Harmonium provides 22 shrutis in 3 scales (Shadja/Madhyam/Pancham). Hence, to cover all 12 scales, 4 harmoniums will be required. I also stated earlier that not many people understand/have personally seen or experienced the Quality of this research, hence the audience and even most singers still find the European harmonium acceptable. Please note that we do not yet have a 'universal' Tabla, Tanpura, Sarangi or even Flute etc., capable of being played with 'all' the singers. So, this is not something unique to a 22-Shruti-Harmonium. That is not the primary need too ! The true requirement is the availability of a perfectly tuned 22-Shruti instrument for a singer, and this requirement is satisfied currently only by our 22-Shruti-Harmonium. Yes, my research does provide a commercial potential which should not be seen as derogatory to the Quality of research. Dr.Oke
Dear Dr. OKe, Thank you very much for your prompt response. Let me apologise at the outset if I sounded derogatory. That was not the intention at all. I just wanted to confirm whether I had understood correctly the point regarding the need for different harmonium instruments for different singers ( which incidentally has a commercial aspect). The equitempered western harmonium does have the unique advantage of being capable of accompanying all singers, ( though it has its own faults which your research has certainly overcome.) Once such an instrument was bought, it could accompany every singer in the family or the entire neighbourhood! I highly admire your research that has brought authenticity clarity and precision( no hanky panky) to the topic of Shrutis. You have very clearly demonstrated how to compute the frequencies of all 22 shrutis in a unique way once a Sa note is chosen. The earlier discussion on this controversial topic was very vague and imprecise. One more comment: which I hope you would not take as derogatory. On your website the use of SIGNIFICANT DIGITS that you retain and quote for various calculated frequencies is not consistent. Some times you retain five digits after the decimal point and sometimes many more ( without any apparent reason ). The human ear has limitations and any more digits beyond that are superfluous. I request you to look into this and do the needful.
Dear Shriram,
Thanks for your response.The digits have been documented at different times....in any case, more than 2 digits after the decimal do not make a musical difference !
Dr.Oke
I want a musical frequency analyzer so help me for that
sir how one can devlop musical ears, i m learning music for last three years . still i m not able to identify different notes
U need to practice on each notes and understand the difference
akara sadhana will help you in doing so
Dear Sir , What are the differences in the secret code 1.0125 , 1.04166, 1.0125 , 1.053497942 (@7:41),how are these numbers obtained. Can you please explain this in a more simpler form.
prithvi shenoy To understand the subject fully, you may have to attend my 1-Day Educational Course on Shrutis (SHRUTI-NIPUN). For registration, see homepage of our website www.22shruti.com. Thanks and Best Wishes, Dr.Oke
Hello Prithvi,
1.053497942X1.0125=1.066(6.6%)
1.066X1.041666=1.1111(11.11%)
1.1111X1.025=1.125 (12.5%)
Hope that helps!
1.053497942X1.0125=1.066(6.6%)
1.066X1.041666=1.1111(11.11%)
1.1111X1.025=1.125 (12.5%)
Mujhe laga tha mai samjh jaunga par sab upar se chala gya!
I am wondering whether one can make music by dividing the distane between every shruti with the same secret code. Probably complicated and unnecessary but just wondering whether those notes will sound as good when put in the right context.
AK what is a secret code
It is just the ratios that Dr. Oke is proposing
Please visit our website www.22shruti.com to see various demonstrations and background information (Research Topics), Thanks, Dr.Oke (For further dialogue, write to dr.oke@22shruti.com)
Sir,I reckon you took the number 100 as base note for clear understanding of calculations , but what's the frequency of base note you took while making such harmoniums and does the frequency of base note matters and is this concept is partially related to 432hz frequency ??
Dear Tushar, We can start with base note of ANY frequency and the % values hold for all 22 shrutis. So, the frequency of the base note does not matter, including 432 hz. Dr.Oke
Yes sir,I figured this out after going through your research section,I posted this comment prior reading that, it's my fault, great work sir, I''m turning my midi piano and possibly other instruments to this tuning,I'm aspiring songwriter and all my piano song and composition will be in this tune but its sad that building such guitar is difficult so I'll lose few instruments,also I wonder if I'll be covering other artists I will feel out of tune ,the best thing is I will start my vocal riyaz in this tune !! thanks a lot your work is precious !! and as mentioned by some great personality, you really deserve a big award or something for this work !! I have gone through your Marathi interview, I'm from Nagpur that's why understood it completely :D
The "magical meme frequency" pushed by cult leader and convicted fraud and con-man Lyndon LaRouche, do you mean? '432Hz' is just another frequency in the oscillations/vibrations of matter. It's NOT MAGICAL OR SPECIAL. Anyone who says it is (with no unbiased testing, such as an A B X test with a large sum of people.) Of course, the people making this spurious claim use emotional language to manipulate idiots into buying their bullshit snake-oil books and such. Actual science and rigourous testing goes out the window, it's nowhere to be seen.
432 Hz is NOTHING BUT A SHIT MEME, until someone proves otherwise. (Never gonna happen)
As a year is supposedly 365 exact days. But in reality, it's not, it's actually around a quarter of a day longer, no nice round figure, sorry, for any naive idiots who believe 432 is special for no reason other than they saw some stupid youtube videos created by morons.
Even a day, is different to it once was. The Fukushima earthquake and disaster actually altered the earths spin, so what we call 'a second', used to be one 60th (second) of one 60th (minute) of one 24 hour day length. This was our arbitrary second. And in relation to the earths spin /day divisions itself, It's not a permanently fixed length of time. That's why we now use atomic clocks and other methodologies to keep track of it as a more stable measure.
Now add E=MC2 into the equation, and that spacetime itself can warp and can speed up or slow down as does a moving object, with 'relativity' to other masses and energies. 432Hz is now meaningless.
So, it was PUSHED IN THE 80s BY A KNOWN CONVICTED FRAUD/CRIMINAL, AND THE MEME'S SPREAD ON EVER SINCE THANKS TO THE INTERNET. (Schiller institute/Lyndon Larouche)
TL:DR
'MAGICAL' 432 Hz, IS NOTHING BUT 100% LIES AND GARBAGE.
@itsclipping ,yeah I did research after putting this comment :D and immediately, I concluded what are you saying and thanks for elaborating it like the way you have done it :D thanks anyway :)
I think you have posted a wrong reply here. My work has nothing to do with Magical 432.
Dr.Oke
Who is Bharatha Muni?
Europeans have not had many research on music. And had not invaded Indian Music
1.) Very good speech, but 2.) Not all musical system were destroyed by the europeen well-tempered scale. Java, Nord africa, arab countries, turkey, Iran, Georgia, Thai, Serbia, Indonesia and many more still use their own system.
It is impossible to destroy local musical scales of many countries...however, there is an invasion by ET scale for sure! Dr.Oke
@@VidyadharOkeDr Of course!
@@VidyadharOkeDr is it invasion or adaptation/fusion?
It is invasion, as I have said! There cannot be an acceptance, or even tolerance of any of the 12 dissonant notes of the '12-Tone-Equitempered Scale' in the '22-Tone-Natural Scale' of Indian Classical Music. Thanks.
ΤΕΤΡΑΔΙΑΣΤΑΤΗ ΑΠΕΙΚΟΝΙΣΗ ΤΟΥ ΧΩΡΟΧΡΟΝΟΥ
ΣΥΝΤΕΤΑΓΜΕΝΕΣ ΧΩΡΟΧΡΟΝΟΥ
ΚΑΙ ΣΥΣΤΟΛΗ ΤΟΥ ΧΩΡΟΥ ΤΟΥ ΑΠΟ ΙΠΠΟΚΡΑΤΗ ΔΑΚΟΓΛΟΥ ΤΟ ΕΤΟΣ 1987 ΒΛΕΠΕ
ΣΤΟ ΒΙΒΛΙΟ ΤΟΥ ΠΥΘΑΓΟΡΕΙΟΣ ΠΡΟΣΑΡΜΟΓΗ ΤΗΣ ΟΡΦΙΚΗΣ ΚΟΣΜΟΛΟΓΙΑΣ
ΣΤΙΣ ΘΕΤΙΚΕΣ ΕΠΙΣΤΗΜΕΣ. Η ΑΠΕΙΚΟΝΙΣΗ ΤΟΥ ΧΩΡΟΧΡΟΝΟΥ ΜΕ ΤΗ ΠΟΛΥΓΩΝΙΚΗ
ΣΠΕΙΡΑ ΤΟΥ ΠΕΙΘΑΓΟΡΑ.
Can you please write in English ?
12et imperialism must end.
What you have done is is a presentation of equal temperament of 12 semitones and contrasting natural harmonics scale. Taking your own calculation of 100 hertz as the adhar swar, the ri 1 of 22 scale must be 103.2 herts and, the pancham will be 150.6 herts. ( in the present 12 semi tone system, the pancham is 149.8 hertz), the reason is, in a lay man' s terms, a scale of1 foot with 12 divisions rarely coinside with a scale of 1 foot with 22 divisions. The actual notes like thri shruthi rishabh and dwi shruthi Gandhar etc., are nowhere present in your instruments. This is because your understanding of derivations and aurguements presented by our Great Bharatha muni and Sharangavadeva is very poor. Their theories still go in tandam with laws of univrasl phisics.
Dear Suresh,
Thanks for your response. Please note that Indian Natural Scale is NOT an Equitempered 22-Note scale. Please visit our website www.22shruti.com to read 'Research Topics' for Mathematics, Physics of 22 shrutis and Videos for demonstrations. You can yourself play 22 shrutis on homepage, and study all the relevant Mathematics their itself. Also kindly see videos showing 'Difference between Nada and Shruti, '22-Shruti-Positions on a string', and also their placement in '22-Shruti-Harmonium', together with different Ragas on that harmonium. Please note that 12 Swaraprakaras are divided in 22 shrutis as shown on the Homepage with 3 types of Shrutis coming sequentially as Poorna, Pramana and Nyuna Shrutis. These 22 shrutis are NOT my creation, but a representation of my understanding of the writings of Bharata and Sharangadeva. If you wish to have a further dialogue, kindly write to me on dr.oke@22shruti.com
Dr.Vidyadhar Oke
a very Good reply!!sir
agreed.
Mistakes are plenty in thie narration. For eg. he tries to say the natural 5th and 3rd are only from indian music and Western music is all equal tempered. Wrong. Pythagorian tuning (~bce500) uses natural 5th. Just intonation in western music uses natural 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. Either he doesnt know or purposely misleading people.
Bogus.
This work is being done for almost a century now.
Explaining something is one thing, claiming originality is another.
I personally have not come across this sort of research (mathematically deriving the 22 shrutis) other than from Dr Oke
@@YusufKhan786 so you should search, refer, and read more. There are more (mathematically as well as musically) rigorous theories put forth by many more-capable scholars.
@@saumitrakshirsagar can you please suggest some papers, books or names of other scholars who have written on this. I am fairly new to this subject.
Just because ur lack of research skills.... U can't call it as bogus
I have personally had over 600 women since watching this video
how do you want me to understand when you speak hindi in broken english ; please do not speak ,just give only the mathematics it will easier to understand ?????????????
U r not that eligible to listen him...