I did this same process at my brother's house back in 2003 the tile has not moved or cracked and looks like new. We are talking the entryway, foyer and walkway to kitchen. This is the right way!
The main reason I use Rock-on screws is because they have a corrosion-resistant finish. This prevents rust from bleeding into my grout. Also drywall screws chemically react with the alkaline in the cement board. Over time the drywall screws will break down and weaken.
I've noticed the difference between drywall screws and cement board screws. Drywall screw, or deck screw won't be able to drive down as flush as cement board screw.
The polymer is for extending dry time because there are crystsls that grow (only while mortar is wet still) and impregnate the two cementatious/tile surfaces. That is the mechanism by which thinset bonds. So to use polymer modified thinset on plywood is extending drytime for no real reason. That wood needs to be dry so using a product specifically designed to slow the drying process is nonsensical. But I don't do it professionally so I could be totally wrong here and would be happy to be shown otherwise. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us
Another issue with the screws... I understand that the drywall screws will have CHEMICAL REACTION with the DUROC and FAIL... one has to use a NON REACTIVE SCREWS ... It's true for many projects in many fields..
Don’t know where this idea came from? What if the sheet was square not 3x5 but rather 3x3? the thinset will do it’s job no matter if it’s troweled long or short just as long as it’s troweled in a straight direction.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Have you ever worked bubbles out from the underside of a sticker? Same concept? If I am trying to squeeze out the air, I'd rather go 1.5' than 2.5'. Isn't one of the goals to have a flat/level floor? Also, I'd imagine that once the thinnest is locked to both the subfloor and the cement board, there's opportunities for a vacuum to be created (if anyones ever tried removing one with wet thinset, they've experienced this). As much as I hate to overthink it, wouldn't that be weak point in the install, a vacuum air-bubble? Once the correct amount of load were to be on the finished surface, I'd have to think at some point there would be a failure (grout, tile, etc.). I guess my question is, what's the harm in it?
@@mathewbrown5989 if your installing a24x24 tile you comb your mud one direction. The direction doesn’t matter as long as it’s all consistent, that allows for the ridges to collapse and the air to escape. This does not change if you set a12x24. If the air will escape and the mortar will dry and bond properly on a square tile it will do the same if you comb side to side on a rectangular tile. The key and really the most important thing is that you comb your lines straight. Swirling your trowel and improper methods of using the trowel is where air becomes trapped. I’m sure you’ve torn out tiles and saw trowel lines going in a circle with no consistency.
Would someone please list brand names and product name for “latex fortified mortar” and “type 1 adhesive”. I try to buy joint compound for Durock brand cement board and the fine print on the contains says not suitable for cement board.
It can be beneficial to lightly spray water on the back side of the board so moisture isn’t too quickly wicked out of the thinset, even though the additive does aid in, among other things, reducing such wicking. Dryness of the plywood subfloor and air can also factor in.
I've removed tiles that directly set on plywood, set on backer board that screw down on floor without thinset in between, set on backer board that brad nailed on floors, yes they are extremely easy to remove, which makes my life a lot easier, but they appear to be no problem to taken the daily beat before renovations. It made me wonder all my previous efforts to follow instructions to the word are really worth it, are there better way to tile, definitely, but how many home owners really keep their tile long enough to see the different?
The design center I work for eliminated backerboard and started using fracture guard and modified flexible thinset over backerboard, this system is working very well.
@@jlai3861 The fracture guard I'm referring to comes in liquid form and is applied with a paint roller, mainly used to prevent cracks in concrete from transferring through to tile. Many contractors are now using it over plywood substrates with a high success rate, eliminating backer board all together. Flexable thinset is recommended for this type of installation.
@@markme4 Thanks, do you have the name of product? It sound like redguard liquid membrane or ardex roll on water proofing, they claim have this crack provention feature.
@@jlai3861 I use Mapelastic CI (crack isolation) made by Mapei with one of their Ultraflex thinsets. Yes it is a similar product to Redguard, drys much faster.
I just love this University of TH-cam. Thank you so much for the video this will be my first time putting it down I'm doing a shower and haven't totally decided if I'm just going to go ahead and use that stuff or use well I'm going to use this stuff overall the rest of my flooring but then in the shower I'm just going to reconcrete to shower or mortar actually I'm going to remorter it and make a mortar bed first and then build my shower from there
@@addismultitasking3504 once you've been a victim of identity theft you don't never want to put your name up on anything trust. And not to mention like cyberstalkers or who God knows what else. I believe to be positive but I can be negative just as like anybody else but I like to be positive mostly unless I deal with negative entities. Or people lol but thanks for the comment
hello, great show. What is the purpose of laying thinset on the wood floor first? Why can't you just use screws to hold the backerboard down and then use thinset and tape to stop the boards from moving?
In this video the cement board is mortared to the floor, not the subfloor. That tongue and groove plywood is nailed into the framing of the house. When the tile is out dated, it will be impossible to remove without destroying the floor.
Doesn’t putting thinset under the cement board basically glue the cement board to the plywood. So if a customer wants to replace the tile in 10 years. Wouldn’t the subfloor need to ripped up too with the cement board?
I just removed tile that was set on cement board that was installed this way and it was an easy removal. The thin set scraps up pretty easily. The tile had been installed by a previous owner about 10 years ago and was perfect except it doesn’t go with the new look.
My only suggestion would be to notch trial the short side of the board to let the air out the same as you would with tile. I believe I see where you have the notch trial going the length of the board which would be trapping the air other than that good job
You are amazing you think just like me, wiah I could hire you as I can’t do the job by myself but don’t think you live in Australia. Very honest and and can see you care about your work. Well done!
Do you want the screws to go all the way to the studs underneath? Or just into the plywood sheets? I plan on using 3/4" plywood and then 1/2" cement board for my bathroom.
What if its a smaller section say for like a dish washer? Could I avoid using the thin set and just screwing down the board? How far away should the screws be from each other? And when starting the first screw how far from the edge do you start?
Ive done remods that the tile was stuck directly to plywood. Tiles were on for 30 years. Still looked good. Not sure you need to go overkill with cement board on top of plywood. As long as your laying on 3/4 plywood. Verysturdy.
Nice. I want to use cement board in the bathroom walls and floors. Can I use thin-set between 3/4 OSB subfloor board then mount the cement board, apply red guard 2 layers, then thin-set and apply the tiles? Please advise. Thank you!
@@markme4 See www.ceramictilefoundation.org/blog/how-to-correctly-trowel-mortar-when-installing-tile Although this is for tile, the same principal should apply to apply thin set groove in the short direction of the durarock.
@@TheModelmaker123 Thank you for the link , interesting. After 34 years of setting tile , I still don't believe there is air traveling through my trowl notches.
@@markme4 the notches have air inbetween, when you set the tile and the notches collapse to provide the tile with a solid (ish) bed the air escapes. Hard to believe you've been fixing tile so long and never heard air escaping.
@@kooper1683 I really don't concern myself with it , I make sure the tile gets a good transfer and keep keep on setting! No failures in over 3 decades, I'm doing something right.
Customs,Mapie,Laticrete all make a polymer modified thin set , yes I also recommend using a polymer modified thin set for setting the tile , always follow manufacturers recommendations plus tape the seams
Nice and neat job,but you really need to apply thinset on cement board as well,so you get a full contact.. When you install tile too,apply thinset on the floors and the back of tile.you can also use prime guard deck screws,I have done a few bathroom work .. old and new houses ,and I always find prime guard screws on floors still on good condition..
I forgot the put thin set between my plywood and concrete board… I didn’t know to do that .. I’m a diyer I have no experience will. It’s just a 3x5 shower floor will I be ok?
We would like to tile a concrete basement floor which is uneven and wavy. Using the Durock seems like the ticket but I have a question. Would I use a treated layer of drywall directly on the concrete and cover with Durock or can the Durock go directly on the concrete floor without a plywood underlay ?
James Hardie Industries, makers of HardieBacker®, and USG, makers of Durock®, indicate that their respective cement backer boards should not be installed over concrete. ... USG: Durock does not expressly exclude concrete, but the material is specified only for minimum 5/8-inch exterior-grade plywood or OSB I found it here: www.thespruce.com/can-hardiebacker-or-durock-be-installed-over-concrete-1822593#:~:text=James%20Hardie%20Industries%2C%20makers%20of,not%20be%20installed%20over%20concrete.&text=USG%3A%20Durock%20does%20not%20expressly,exterior%2Dgrade%20plywood%20or%20OSB.
durock would be a waste in this scenario. You can use thinset with a flat trowel to level the floor, it scrapes easily after dry to get it smooth for tiling
I put roofing felt paper over the 3/4 plywood subfloor, then screwed down 1/4 inch hardiboard over that. Next step is to put down 30x30 tiles, butter the back of tiles and the floors. Will this work.thank you
i thought on the floor you were supposed to leave and 1/8" between edges and also put the thinset on the edges of each piece? Maybe I'm wrong but just thought i seen that on multiple tv shows.
Do you put screws in the DUROCK between the register/vent and wall? Only asking because I'm using hardibacker and the strip beside the vent is so thin I'm concerned putting a screw in it will the thin piece in half
My subfloor is made up of 1x8 plank boards. Would you do the durock right over that or put something in between first like 1/4in plywood underlayment? Thank you.
How's it going one question I'm getting my kitchen and 1/2 bath floor retiled some contractors say backer board some say mud job what do you suggest...right now my tiles in my kitchen floor are cracked and loose...
It says on the bag, not to use the Versabond over OSB. But i put 1/2" OSB over 3/4 plywood. So deflection shouldn't be an issue... is deflection the only reason OSB prohibits?
I use the 1/2" Durock only, cut everything in place dry, lifting 1 sheet at a time, mud the floor and the under side BOTH and set the board in it's place using no screws at all. I do tape the joints and then set my tile over it the next day. It is my thought that sicne we do not screw tile to the floor, why screw the underlayment? I have never had any issues using this method in over 20 years
@@21gonza21 Let me add something. By using the backer board, you are creating a monolithic layer on which to lay tile. This layer, while bonded with thinset to the subfloor, acts to isolate the tile from the expansion and contraction of the subfloor. In other words, the thinset under the backerboard might develop cracks, but this will not and cannot transfer to the tile with a proper installation. Of course you could always use a decoupling membrane. It costs more but is a lot faster. For both, the deflection of the subfloor must be factored in based on what type of tile you are using, e.g. stone, marble, ceramic, porcelain, etc.
@Halo jump simple, because that method is totally wrong and will result in cracked tiles. Also it will not destroy the subfloor. I know because I have demolished the same install.
What is your purpose for using thinset? Wouldn't that create a huge problem for the next guy. Say the home owner wanted to remove the tile years down the line that thinset may pull up the plywood.
If the finished floor thickness isn't an issue, add a layer of 1/4" or 3/8 A/C plywood, not Luan plywood, using about a million narrow crown staples before the durock. Stagger all the seams. The staples must penetrate the subfloor for proper holding power. This adds floor rigidity and allows for future removal without destroying the structural integrity of the sub floor plywood. Its also good for covering 1x subfloor boards.. Use mortar and 1-5/8 durock screws to fasten it all together as shown in video. Bulletproof installation, yet removable down the road.
I pity the contractor that remodels after all the bath and kitchen floors I have remodeled. I am so happy when I remodel and the previous contractor did not use durorock and thinset. lol Good thing Im getting closer to retiring !
I try to explain to my customers that tile is meant to last a lifetime. If you want to change it every 6 to 10 , or less , years. Carpet or vinyl is what you want.
Ive never seen that done, I have seen 2x4's layed on the cement and covered in plywood, then flooring layed on that.. I have personally layed plank flooring right on top of cement, but I coated the cement with 3 coats of dry loc first.
@@addismultitasking3504 yeah but if you lay 2 by 4's and you have a leak of some sort, the water will damage the wood and you'll have to rip everything up again
No, don't do it! Cedar is very weak. If you do that you can be assured of cracks. If you have an old tongue and groove subfloor made of cedar/pine, it's always a good idea to screw it down and put at least 5/8 plywood on top before cement board. The cement board is deceptive in that it doesn't add to the deflection rating of a floor. It simply gives a proper base for the tile. Also, you have to embed the cement board into mortar like this guy is doing and that require a continuous floor with no gaps.
@@markme4 I'm sure you already know this, but if you have too much deflection in your joists then, yes, plywood won't help much. But there are many things that go into the rigidity and solidness of the floor. Joist deflection is one thing, then vibration, twisting, etc. An L500+ rated floor can still feel weak if it has too much vibration. However, the poster was talking about putting cemwnt board directly on cedar deck boards. Definitely not a good idea just due to the movement of those boards. Plywood is dimensionally stable in all directions and makes a hood subfloor base. Now, if the joists underneath are spaced too far apart, or aren't supported enough for the type of joists they are, then that problem would have to be addressed beforehand. That is why a contractor needs to look at a project before giving any determination on anything. There are many variables to any job.
@@addismultitasking3504 and with the 1/4 x 1/4 thin set underneath, it would make the total install about 3/8" above the plywood subfloor (1/4 cement board plus about 1/8 thin set when pressed)?
This works but there are better solutions now. I have bathroom jobs i did this way 25 years ago and the floors are still solid but out of style. Current method is to add a second layer of glued and screwed plywood to get 1” total underlayment thickness, for the least amount of deflection. Cement board doesn’t reduce deflection. Then 2 coats of acrylic bonding agent rolled on to plywood. Next a self leveling compound is poured if needed. Then a layer of decoupling membrane of desired thickness for the tile. This method lets you waterproof at tubs and shower curbs better and has the ability for easy floor warming systems. The decoupling is key for large tiles that would likely crack from expansion issues of a rigidly adhered durarock underlayment. The plywood, bonding agent and self leveler can all be done in the same day. In fact the self leveler is supposed to be applied while the bonding agent still has some tack.
Do you prime the floor in a bathroom before using the thinset? I have a wood subfloor. Surprisingly it’s completely level (I’m shocked and questioning this) so I didn’t end up using the self leveler. So I’m wondering if there’s anything special about making bathrooms waterproof. would you use primer or waterproofing under the thinset and cement board? Any advice you could offer about doing this in a bathroom would be great
![✔️✔️HOW TO Prepare Wooden FLOOR to Put CERAMIC - [UNICA Forma in 2021] ✔️✔️](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_Zuwl9cckHg/mqdefault.jpg)
I did this same process at my brother's house back in 2003 the tile has not moved or cracked and looks like new. We are talking the entryway, foyer and walkway to kitchen. This is the right way!
I agree
That's awesome to know, built right, built to last is what I like to hear.
I agree too
Thanks for the video. The only issue I see is the trowel lines should point to the shortest distance to make it easier for the air to escape.
The main reason I use Rock-on screws is because they have a corrosion-resistant finish. This prevents rust from bleeding into my grout. Also drywall screws chemically react with the alkaline in the cement board. Over time the drywall screws will break down and weaken.
Well said Perry !
I've noticed the difference between drywall screws and cement board screws. Drywall screw, or deck screw won't be able to drive down as flush as cement board screw.
can confirm this
Its great to see quality training videos and right way to do things. Thanks.
thanks
A nice, concise no BS or mugging for the camera.... just good info ! Thank you
I appreciate that!
The polymer is for extending dry time because there are crystsls that grow (only while mortar is wet still) and impregnate the two cementatious/tile surfaces. That is the mechanism by which thinset bonds. So to use polymer modified thinset on plywood is extending drytime for no real reason. That wood needs to be dry so using a product specifically designed to slow the drying process is nonsensical. But I don't do it professionally so I could be totally wrong here and would be happy to be shown otherwise. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us
Another issue with the screws... I understand that the drywall screws will have CHEMICAL REACTION with the DUROC and FAIL... one has to use a NON REACTIVE SCREWS ...
It's true for many projects in many fields..
One other tip: trowel your thin set perpendicular to the long edge so the air can escape more readily.
Don’t know where this idea came from? What if the sheet was square not 3x5 but rather 3x3? the thinset will do it’s job no matter if it’s troweled long or short just as long as it’s troweled in a straight direction.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Have you ever worked bubbles out from the underside of a sticker? Same concept? If I am trying to squeeze out the air, I'd rather go 1.5' than 2.5'. Isn't one of the goals to have a flat/level floor? Also, I'd imagine that once the thinnest is locked to both the subfloor and the cement board, there's opportunities for a vacuum to be created (if anyones ever tried removing one with wet thinset, they've experienced this). As much as I hate to overthink it, wouldn't that be weak point in the install, a vacuum air-bubble? Once the correct amount of load were to be on the finished surface, I'd have to think at some point there would be a failure (grout, tile, etc.). I guess my question is, what's the harm in it?
@@mathewbrown5989 if your installing a24x24 tile you comb your mud one direction. The direction doesn’t matter as long as it’s all consistent, that allows for the ridges to collapse and the air to escape. This does not change if you set a12x24. If the air will escape and the mortar will dry and bond properly on a square tile it will do the same if you comb side to side on a rectangular tile. The key and really the most important thing is that you comb your lines straight. Swirling your trowel and improper methods of using the trowel is where air becomes trapped. I’m sure you’ve torn out tiles and saw trowel lines going in a circle with no consistency.
Would someone please list brand names and product name for “latex fortified mortar” and “type 1 adhesive”. I try to buy joint compound for Durock brand cement board and the fine print on the contains says not suitable for cement board.
It can be beneficial to lightly spray water on the back side of the board so moisture isn’t too quickly wicked out of the thinset, even though the additive does aid in, among other things, reducing such wicking. Dryness of the plywood subfloor and air can also factor in.
I've removed tiles that directly set on plywood, set on backer board that screw down on floor without thinset in between, set on backer board that brad nailed on floors, yes they are extremely easy to remove, which makes my life a lot easier, but they appear to be no problem to taken the daily beat before renovations. It made me wonder all my previous efforts to follow instructions to the word are really worth it, are there better way to tile, definitely, but how many home owners really keep their tile long enough to see the different?
The design center I work for eliminated backerboard and started using fracture guard and modified flexible thinset over backerboard, this system is working very well.
@@markme4 Can you explain what is the fracture guard? I always interested in new building technology and keep learning.
@@jlai3861 The fracture guard I'm referring to comes in liquid form and is applied with a paint roller, mainly used to prevent cracks in concrete from transferring through to tile. Many contractors are now using it over plywood substrates with a high success rate, eliminating backer board all together. Flexable thinset is recommended for this type of installation.
@@markme4 Thanks, do you have the name of product? It sound like redguard liquid membrane or ardex roll on water proofing, they claim have this crack provention feature.
@@jlai3861 I use Mapelastic CI (crack isolation) made by Mapei with one of their Ultraflex thinsets. Yes it is a similar product to Redguard, drys much faster.
do you tape the joints with thin set and mesh tape?
I just love this University of TH-cam. Thank you so much for the video this will be my first time putting it down I'm doing a shower and haven't totally decided if I'm just going to go ahead and use that stuff or use well I'm going to use this stuff overall the rest of my flooring but then in the shower I'm just going to
reconcrete to shower or mortar actually I'm going to remorter it and make a mortar bed first and then build my shower from there
I like your you tube name
@@addismultitasking3504 once you've been a victim of identity theft you don't never want to put your name up on anything trust. And not to mention like cyberstalkers or who God knows what else. I believe to be positive but I can be negative just as like anybody else but I like to be positive mostly unless I deal with negative entities. Or people lol but thanks for the comment
hello, great show. What is the purpose of laying thinset on the wood floor first? Why can't you just use screws to hold the backerboard down and then use thinset and tape to stop the boards from moving?
I use a handgrinder to cut the board. Cuts it fast and clean
Very messy though, hope you are cutting it outside with a mask on.
If your Plywood base is solid can you use 1/4 " Durock? Thanks! Appreciate the video.
In this video the cement board is mortared to the floor, not the subfloor. That tongue and groove plywood is nailed into the framing of the house. When the tile is out dated, it will be impossible to remove without destroying the floor.
Nah. It comes back up. Just did the same in my house with subflooring. It all came up with no damage to subfloor after 16 years of set.
Doesn’t putting thinset under the cement board basically glue the cement board to the plywood. So if a customer wants to replace the tile in 10 years. Wouldn’t the subfloor need to ripped up too with the cement board?
Thinset doesn't bond to wood like it does cement , usually it will come up without damaging the plywood, at least thats been my experience.
I just removed tile that was set on cement board that was installed this way and it was an easy removal. The thin set scraps up pretty easily. The tile had been installed by a previous owner about 10 years ago and was perfect except it doesn’t go with the new look.
My only suggestion would be to notch trial the short side of the board to let the air out the same as you would with tile. I believe I see where you have the notch trial going the length of the board which would be trapping the air other than that good job
You are amazing you think just like me, wiah I could hire you as I can’t do the job by myself but don’t think you live in Australia. Very honest and and can see you care about your work. Well done!
Thanks for watching!
Great video. My drill ran out of battery and my thinset dried under the board. Can I still screw down the board now?
Do you want the screws to go all the way to the studs underneath? Or just into the plywood sheets? I plan on using 3/4" plywood and then 1/2" cement board for my bathroom.
I do a couple in between the floor joists, but mainly you want them through the floor joists.
What if its a smaller section say for like a dish washer? Could I avoid using the thin set and just screwing down the board? How far away should the screws be from each other? And when starting the first screw how far from the edge do you start?
well done, sir! Appreciate the tips and integrity.
Glad it was helpful!
Ive done remods that the tile was stuck directly to plywood. Tiles were on for 30 years. Still looked good. Not sure you need to go overkill with cement board on top of plywood. As long as your laying on 3/4 plywood. Verysturdy.
They don't make wood like they used to🤙🏻
Yeah and the thinset bed is overkill
The Home Depot instructional video says to leave a 1/8” gap between each Sheetrock piece. Do you agree?
Nice. I want to use cement board in the bathroom walls and floors. Can I use thin-set between 3/4 OSB subfloor board then mount the cement board, apply red guard 2 layers, then thin-set and apply the tiles? Please advise. Thank you!
Run your thin set grooves in the same direction so air can escape also. Nice vid.
That does absolutely nothing
@@markme4 See www.ceramictilefoundation.org/blog/how-to-correctly-trowel-mortar-when-installing-tile Although this is for tile, the same principal should apply to apply thin set groove in the short direction of the durarock.
@@TheModelmaker123 Thank you for the link , interesting. After 34 years of setting tile , I still don't believe there is air traveling through my trowl notches.
@@markme4 the notches have air inbetween, when you set the tile and the notches collapse to provide the tile with a solid (ish) bed the air escapes. Hard to believe you've been fixing tile so long and never heard air escaping.
@@kooper1683 I really don't concern myself with it , I make sure the tile gets a good transfer and keep keep on setting! No failures in over 3 decades, I'm doing something right.
Good video thanks and that seems completely logical to lay it on a bed of thin set. Not only for strength but to fill any air gaps
thanks for watching, never had an issue using this method
@@addismultitasking3504 smart man bet you don’t get many if any call backs
What do you patch the joints with when the dylura rock is on the floor
Mesh Drywall tape, and thinset
Just did this last weekend! Thanks for the tips!
thanks for watching
Could someone tell me what is the name of adhesive is being used over the plywood please??? Is it the same for tiling?
Customs,Mapie,Laticrete all make a polymer modified thin set , yes I also recommend using a polymer modified thin set for setting the tile , always follow manufacturers recommendations plus tape the seams
Nice and neat job,but you really need to apply thinset on cement board as well,so you get a full contact..
When you install tile too,apply thinset on the floors and the back of tile.you can also use prime guard deck screws,I have done a few bathroom work .. old and new houses ,and I always find prime guard screws on floors still on good condition..
Thanks
no you dont !
Thank you so much I’m watching your video in Home Depot
Awesome! Thank you!
does the company recommend the thin set to the sub base ???
I have that exact same drill...... Harbor Freight Bauer, does a great job!
Can you use straight thinset under the Durock, or do you need to use a latex additive?
If you place your screen every six inches knowing where the floor joist are is pointless. Am I wrong?
I forgot the put thin set between my plywood and concrete board… I didn’t know to do that .. I’m a diyer I have no experience will. It’s just a 3x5 shower floor will I be ok?
hello sir thank u for ur video can i use cement on the top of this cement Board
Yes for sure in fact I did one floor like that without tiling on top and then just paint on top
I would use 1/2” durock or 1/2” wonder board and skip thinset.
Now you’re thinking!
manufactures specs say thinset no matter how thick or type of board you use.
@@muddyriverdogzyep. That’s their CYA.
We would like to tile a concrete basement floor which is uneven and wavy. Using the Durock seems like the ticket but I have a question. Would I use a treated layer of drywall directly on the concrete and cover with Durock or can the Durock go directly on the concrete floor without a plywood underlay ?
James Hardie Industries, makers of HardieBacker®, and USG, makers of Durock®, indicate that their respective cement backer boards should not be installed over concrete. ... USG: Durock does not expressly exclude concrete, but the material is specified only for minimum 5/8-inch exterior-grade plywood or OSB
I found it here:
www.thespruce.com/can-hardiebacker-or-durock-be-installed-over-concrete-1822593#:~:text=James%20Hardie%20Industries%2C%20makers%20of,not%20be%20installed%20over%20concrete.&text=USG%3A%20Durock%20does%20not%20expressly,exterior%2Dgrade%20plywood%20or%20OSB.
durock would be a waste in this scenario. You can use thinset with a flat trowel to level the floor, it scrapes easily after dry to get it smooth for tiling
Thank you great video
Glad you enjoyed it
I put roofing felt paper over the 3/4 plywood subfloor, then screwed down 1/4 inch hardiboard over that. Next step is to put down 30x30 tiles, butter the back of tiles and the floors. Will this work.thank you
Never seen it done that way, hardiboard needs to be embeded in motar per manufacturer specs
Do you recommend not taping the seems?
Yes
Iv got woodens floors and ontop of them i have plywood
Shall i install this over plywood or over the floorboards with no plywood ontop ?
Can you show how you screw working your way to the corners? Like do u going diagnol?
Nice work and tips. Highly addictive.
Please explain what is the material that was layered under board. Thank you
floor joists, then 3/4 plywood glue and screwed, then 1/4inch of mortor, then durock screwed with rock-on screws
i thought on the floor you were supposed to leave and 1/8" between edges and also put the thinset on the edges of each piece? Maybe I'm wrong but just thought i seen that on multiple tv shows.
Not thrilled with Durock how about Schulder over wood?
It used more than any othey tile backer for a reason.
I’m using this process for my bathroom as well.
nice!
Do you put screws in the DUROCK between the register/vent and wall? Only asking because I'm using hardibacker and the strip beside the vent is so thin I'm concerned putting a screw in it will the thin piece in half
it will probably break
My subfloor is made up of 1x8 plank boards. Would you do the durock right over that or put something in between first like 1/4in plywood underlayment? Thank you.
I'd probably use 1/2 plywood in between
Plywood
Thinset is a must
thin mortar is need it, or it's possible to skip it
How's it going one question I'm getting my kitchen and 1/2 bath floor retiled some contractors say backer board some say mud job what do you suggest...right now my tiles in my kitchen floor are cracked and loose...
You must start with a SOLID floor first, if you have cracked tiles now its going to crack again if you dont strengthen the floor.
hello I'm trying to do my kitchen floor and I'm not sure if I can use 1/4 inch durarock or I have to use 1/2 inch?
thanks
Depends how sturdy your floor is and if you want your tile at a certain height to meet up with another floor in another room
I would do a primer on the wood. Has anyone ever done an anti vibration floor on conventional foundation
Great, thank you !
The holes will make it less waterproof ??
It says on the bag, not to use the Versabond over OSB. But i put 1/2" OSB over 3/4 plywood. So deflection shouldn't be an issue... is deflection the only reason OSB prohibits?
Its because OSB easily peels apart. The moisture from versabond will expand the OSB
@@addismultitasking3504 thank you
@@addismultitasking3504 so i could put some water proofing membrane done before thinset?
Can you use liquid nails instead of thin set?
Does it need to be even? And if it's not, what do you do to make it even? Thx
What about thinset/taping the seams?
What did you use to bond the durock
Can this method be used in a mobil home with a 2x8 joist package??? I wanting to install tile floors. Thanks 😊
I would think it should work fine
very good info and easy to understand thank you
thanks have a good rest of the day
Did u wet the plywood b4 u but the thinset down? I heard u should wet it a little bit.
you can wet it with a sponge, not dripping wet ...just moist especially in the winter
why not shulter kerdi product instead of cement board..?
I loved that my friend.
Would you say 66 screws per backer board?
Which side does the board need to be showing the smooth side or the rough side?
I have a tongue and groove hardwood subfloor, can I use a thin plywood or would you recommend I use 3/4 plywood underneath the durarock?
I always use three quarter inch tongue and groove plywood glued and screwed...Don't go thin and cheap you will regret it later
@@addismultitasking3504 thank you!
I use the 1/2" Durock only, cut everything in place dry, lifting 1 sheet at a time, mud the floor and the under side BOTH and set the board in it's place using no screws at all. I do tape the joints and then set my tile over it the next day. It is my thought that sicne we do not screw tile to the floor, why screw the underlayment? I have never had any issues using this method in over 20 years
Is it bad to use impact drill.
Wishing I'd seen this before I screwed straight to the plywood
I was going to screw it to my subfloor. How did yours turn out? Thanks.
I will make sure I do it like this professional as I do thing right as I’m not an easy quitter and push hard while on the shitter ,
LOL thats a good one
Why not use that thin set and lay the tile over the plywood?
It will crack in time... sooner than later.
@@kenhoward127 so that means it’s useless why bother to use it on the cement board?
@@21gonza21 I'm sorry, you lost me... what's useless? Use what on the cement board?
@@21gonza21 Let me add something. By using the backer board, you are creating a monolithic layer on which to lay tile. This layer, while bonded with thinset to the subfloor, acts to isolate the tile from the expansion and contraction of the subfloor. In other words, the thinset under the backerboard might develop cracks, but this will not and cannot transfer to the tile with a proper installation. Of course you could always use a decoupling membrane. It costs more but is a lot faster. For both, the deflection of the subfloor must be factored in based on what type of tile you are using, e.g. stone, marble, ceramic, porcelain, etc.
@Halo jump simple, because that method is totally wrong and will result in cracked tiles. Also it will not destroy the subfloor. I know because I have demolished the same install.
So that's mean when you Install tile you have to step over to take the air bubble? 🤔
What is your purpose for using thinset? Wouldn't that create a huge problem for the next guy. Say the home owner wanted to remove the tile years down the line that thinset may pull up the plywood.
It's the only way to install it void free.. I don't know any pro tile guy that doesn't do it..the durock install book also says to use it.
If the finished floor thickness isn't an issue, add a layer of 1/4" or 3/8 A/C plywood, not Luan plywood, using about a million narrow crown staples before the durock. Stagger all the seams. The staples must penetrate the subfloor for proper holding power. This adds floor rigidity and allows for future removal without destroying the structural integrity of the sub floor plywood. Its also good for covering 1x subfloor boards.. Use mortar and 1-5/8 durock screws to fasten it all together as shown in video. Bulletproof installation, yet removable down the road.
I pity the contractor that remodels after all the bath and kitchen floors I have remodeled. I am so happy when I remodel and the previous contractor did not use durorock and thinset. lol Good thing Im getting closer to retiring !
I try to explain to my customers that tile is meant to last a lifetime. If you want to change it every 6 to 10 , or less , years. Carpet or vinyl is what you want.
So is that a modified thinset then?
So you fill plywood expansion joints with thinset?
Yes.. I'm in northern Illinois so I'm not sure if you would do that in your region
@@addismultitasking3504 mee too im in Montgomery laying tile in a 8×24 mudroom
U dont leave a 1/8 inc space between sheets?
can you use this kind of backer board on a slab of cement to lift the floor up for plank flooring? Or, would this not make any sense?
Ive never seen that done, I have seen 2x4's layed on the cement and covered in plywood, then flooring layed on that.. I have personally layed plank flooring right on top of cement, but I coated the cement with 3 coats of dry loc first.
@@addismultitasking3504 yeah but if you lay 2 by 4's and you have a leak of some sort, the water will damage the wood and you'll have to rip everything up again
Yeah, Ive seen it done,but Ive never done it that way. Id use smart core planking its waterproof
I thought you are supposed to apply thinset on the durock as well. I could be wrong, but thats how I was thought.
I have thinset underneath the durock and I also taped all of the joints with fiber tape and thinset
@@addismultitasking3504 Good work. Nice and neat!
Thanks
How thick is the durarock you use and screw length? Thank you
You can back trowel the backerboard but is completely unnecessary.
This was helpful, thanks
your welcome
Is it ok that I'm installing underlayment over the old subfloor, then I will lay the concrete board on top of that?
As long as its solid you should be good
@@addismultitasking3504 do I even need another underlayment since technically concrete board is.
Good video, thank you.
How thick should I have the thin set ?
1/4 inch for 1/4 inch or 3/8 for 1/2 inch duroc
Hey, can I install mine on top of my cedar decking boards without putting a subfloor over it, if I use 1/2 " backer board? I have an enclosed deck.
Thats tricky, If your in a climate where there is not big temperature swings than probably
No, don't do it! Cedar is very weak. If you do that you can be assured of cracks. If you have an old tongue and groove subfloor made of cedar/pine, it's always a good idea to screw it down and put at least 5/8 plywood on top before cement board. The cement board is deceptive in that it doesn't add to the deflection rating of a floor. It simply gives a proper base for the tile. Also, you have to embed the cement board into mortar like this guy is doing and that require a continuous floor with no gaps.
@@MyFortressConstruction If you lay plywood over a weak subfloor, you still have a weak subfloor.
@@markme4 I'm sure you already know this, but if you have too much deflection in your joists then, yes, plywood won't help much. But there are many things that go into the rigidity and solidness of the floor. Joist deflection is one thing, then vibration, twisting, etc. An L500+ rated floor can still feel weak if it has too much vibration. However, the poster was talking about putting cemwnt board directly on cedar deck boards. Definitely not a good idea just due to the movement of those boards. Plywood is dimensionally stable in all directions and makes a hood subfloor base. Now, if the joists underneath are spaced too far apart, or aren't supported enough for the type of joists they are, then that problem would have to be addressed beforehand. That is why a contractor needs to look at a project before giving any determination on anything. There are many variables to any job.
@@MyFortressConstruction Agreed
great video.. good information.. was that 1/2 inch or 1/4 inch thick?
1/4
@@addismultitasking3504 and with the 1/4 x 1/4 thin set underneath, it would make the total install about 3/8" above the plywood subfloor (1/4 cement board plus about 1/8 thin set when pressed)?
Thank you for your video.
You are welcome
why use durock on the floor and not just a ditra or something.
This works but there are better solutions now. I have bathroom jobs i did this way 25 years ago and the floors are still solid but out of style.
Current method is to add a second layer of glued and screwed plywood to get 1” total underlayment thickness, for the least amount of deflection. Cement board doesn’t reduce deflection. Then 2 coats of acrylic bonding agent rolled on to plywood. Next a self leveling compound is poured if needed. Then a layer of decoupling membrane of desired thickness for the tile. This method lets you waterproof at tubs and shower curbs better and has the ability for easy floor warming systems. The decoupling is key for large tiles that would likely crack from expansion issues of a rigidly adhered durarock underlayment. The plywood, bonding agent and self leveler can all be done in the same day. In fact the self leveler is supposed to be applied while the bonding agent still has some tack.
Is there a good video which shows this current method?
Wrong. Durock is the most used tile backer by professionals for a reason !
Thank you for sharing knowledge!
Thanks for watching
3:00 I didn't see any thinset bubbles 🤨 you know like you did as a child blow bubbles with Bubblegum 😋
I build a deck can I put the durock direct on my rafter?
No you can't do that you have to add wood first
Very helpful
Thanks
Nice job
Can I use liquid sub floor nails
I would not
Do you prime the floor in a bathroom before using the thinset? I have a wood subfloor. Surprisingly it’s completely level (I’m shocked and questioning this) so I didn’t end up using the self leveler. So I’m wondering if there’s anything special about making bathrooms waterproof. would you use primer or waterproofing under the thinset and cement board? Any advice you could offer about doing this in a bathroom would be great
I would not use a primer on top of your wood it would decrease the adhesion of your thinset
And don't use that self leveling junk....
I have a dura roc video on the dos and donts of cement board
@@addismultitasking3504 Why don't you like level quick? I've never heard anyone refer to it as junk.