I’ve ridden the Brightline 5 times in the past few weeks. I’ve lived in S. Florida for 30+ years and rarely go to Palm Beach. Now, because of the Brightline, I’ve been there 2x this month alone. Palm Beach is awesome and there’s so much to do right within walking distance of the station. Super clean stations and trains. The staff are great. As you point out, the Premium services are great.
Yep the more modes of transport the more accessible places become. It’s good for people finding jobs in the city and good for those who don’t want to live in the city to commute.
This is the great benefit of good public transportation and why they don't need to be profitable themselves; it'll boost local economies and improve lives socially too.
The addition of their Tesla cabs for taking you the last mile is key-if they didn’t offer that, then you might feel more pressure to rent a car because you need to get from the station to your final destination. The pickup and drop off component of it really is a difference maker that makes it worth it. Last thing you want is to be stuck with an Uber surge or running down a cab. This makes it easy, affordable and effortless
I can hardly wait to travel in Brightline, as soon as the line from Orlando airport is finished I will also travel and see Fort Lauderdale and West Palm for the first time since I don’t like and enjoy toll road driving
technically JR East and West basically focused only the Shinkansen, the rural/ local routes outside of tokyo are basically mothballs and money sinks to their accountants. many former main route has been downgrade or given to the local council to run.
The big success is they own real estate. Owning and developing properties around the stations. You find department stores like Keio, Odakyu, Seibu, Keisei in and around Tokyo. Also being traded in the stock exchange.
Whilst Brightline is an "express train" between major cities, they are planning on creating a second service that will stop at many new not yet built stations in South Florida that will serve the local commuters. A Ft Lauderdale Airport Station will connect to an intermodal garage, where a light rail "loop" will run from the airport, cruise port and Brightline station. Similarly, extensions at the Miami Station will connect to Miami Airport and Cruise Port. Universal Studios in Orlando has donated land for a future Brightline Station that will serve them and the convention center. The goal is to market Brightline as a means of connecting the major tourist centers, increasing options for vacationers already in Orlando. By hopping on Brightline, visitors can go to a casino in Tampa or Ft Lauderdale in the morning, then go back to their hotels that same evening. With the South Florida local service, residents can have alternatives to driving. To help fund the railroad, Brightline built apartment buildings next to the Miami and West Palm Beah stations. Profits from those go to keep Brightline running, They did their homework and the future is looking good!
80 people have been killed by this Train since it started running in Florida. Of course it’s not the trains fault but they need to up crossing safety 100%
I understand the want to beat a freight train but passenger trains are so short and rare it’s ridiculous to try to beat them it will be less than a minute of your life
Once an hour is the bare minimum in many European countries. Amtrak should run hourly on all state sponsored routes!!!! Especially the Michigan services
In the US, roads and highways have been constructed and maintained almost entirely by tax dollars. Rail transport, on the other hand, receives far less support. As fuel costs rise, transporting people by rail is far more energy-efficient than by automobile, and that's where our tax dollars should go.
@@ianhomerpura8937 I remember watching a video about the nationalized railroads during World War 1. At the end of the War the roads were just handed back to the rail companies in a very dilapidated condition. The government did minimal to zero maintenance!
@@edwardmiessner6502 interesting that is the case in the mainland US. In the Philippines, the Wilson government nationalized the Manila Railroad Company, and it has been under state control since. They never gave it back to its British owners, even after independence in 1946.
The big reason the feds created the interstate program is because Eisenhower wanted a road network for the military. I’m sure if it weren’t for that more highways in the US would have been funded by state bonds and tolls to pay those bonds.
" As fuel costs rise, transporting people by rail is far more energy-efficient than by automobile," Not if the distance is greater than 200 miles, that's when the plane is a lot faster, or less than 50 miles, where cars are dominant. In about 20 years, cars won't use fossil. They'll all use batteries or H2. Your main complaint is that the car is privately owned, right? You want the state to own and control the means of production? From each according to his means to each according to his needs?
I really hope this Brightline service works. They need to rezone the areas around these stations. Single family homes cannot support a service like this. You need dense communities. I don't mean, residential towers but multi family homes, townhomes, etc. Walkable communities. And pressure these townships to expand their transit within their communities. Create some Transit oriented communities.
i mean these stations are mostly in downtowns im pretty sure. I know the miami one is with access to the metro mover, though the mover is kinda slow. I think what ur talking ab isnt just needed for brightline but for everywhere especially with metro cause the metro just cant get enough tax funding with single family homes to expand to make it worth it. It would help traffic so much but the density or competent politicians arent there to support it
doesn't the same company own the land at the start and end of the line? And it's already dense, I thought? (or at least planned, by the parent company, to be dense)
@@LrdZanny they built apartments alongside the west palm beach station. Ironically, half the height of the building is a parking garage. Kind of defeats the purpose.
You've expressed alot of my concerns with brightline that I haven't heard anywhere else. I have some bets with people how long it'll exist before the state or Amtrak takes it over. I'm giving it 15years.
Hello Alan. I figured you'd be here. Although I'm also concerned about the private sector's fundamental need for profit, their increased amount of funding gives Brightline more opportunity to expand its frequencies and overall quality when compared to a federal ro state funded route at the mercy of whoever is in office.
@@tehangrybird345 To which it kind of did. Amtrak is now proposing regional service between Miami and Tampa along their existing ex Seaboard route, but I'm not sure when it'll start service, and it certainly won't be as frequent as Brightline.
I'd gladly take that bet. I'm not a rich man, I'll put $50 up. $50 says it's still in private hands and doing great 15 years from now. If it is, you owe me $100.
Orlando will be their big money maker. As far as Amtrak taking it over...the only way that would happen is if it were to fail. If anything I'd like to see Brightline compete with Amtrak on key corridors.
I'd love to see them co-operate on the FEC line, running all the way from Jax to Miami: Brightline stopping in major cities like St. Augustine, Jax, and Cocoa, Amtrak filling in stops in between. FEC seems like a reasonable freight company to work with so far, provided that the passenger railroads they work with pick up their share of the tab.
Amtrak sucks big monkey balls. Especially in Atlanta and all of Georgia it’s sucks huge massive piles of shit. Literally no train service from Atlanta to savannah, Atlanta to Chattanooga, Atlanta to Orlando or any part of Florida.
@@macgobhann8712 Brightline is offering better service then Amtrak offers anywhere in the country. If Amtrak takes over, there is no doubt that service quality will decrease. While the video fails to mention it, Amtrak actually offers service in the same cities as Brightline. The trains travel half the speeds, and its only 2 trains per direction per day, so service is cut drastically... infact, they aren't even operating it currently as a result of COVID/shortages. If Amtrak takes over, this is what is in store: - 50% average speed reduction - 75% reduction in trains per day - removal of all amenities that this guy was impressed about - no further expansions - station locations need to be changed to be more "equitable"... stations need to be worried about making sure they are servicing the poor and needy rather than focused on the profit motive, which is to get as many people onto the train as possible Tri Rail also serves the same exact area, but is publicly run. When gas prices first hit $4 a gallon, ridership on Tri Rail was way up, almost every train was hitting capacity as people were trying to save money. And what does the public system do at that point? They realize that with more people riding it, operational costs are up, they are going over budget, and cut the number of trains per day, because the motive wasn't profit or to maximize ridership. Brightline obviously would have added trains. they are taking delivery of more trains right now to increase service frequency with the launch of the Orlando extension. Brightline also is exploring increasing speeds to 150mph in some areas as part of the Tampa extension after Orlando. Things that would never happen with Amtrak.
While we don't have high-speed rail, I still appreciate trains. A private train has helped me get to my presidential summits in China, Russia, and Vietnam. Trains are rooted in the planet's history and have helped connect so many places, and so it is important to treat them with respect Once Korean reunification is achieved, we'd be able to have access to the south's high-speed network.
Private rail ain't so bad. A lot less bureaucracy political bickering over what gets built. Also public/private partnerships can add an addition means of funding and expansions.
Brightline is privately owned but not privately funded. They get both cash subsidies and indirect subsidies in the form of real estate that they sell for cash.
@@TohaBgood2 every industry gets subsidized, and giving land to railroads is far from anything new. (Its literally how the intercontinental railroad got paid for) I think that once they get the rest of their expansions built (or atleast the Orlando connection done) they will be self sustaining. (And if not the externalities of the train like decreased highway congestion may be seen as too important by the state of Florida to let the train die, which could lead to subsidies for the company to keep them solvent and operational.)
@@jasonreed7522 Yes, that is all correct. Some of the best rail transportation systems in the world are funded like that. Just look at the Japanese Shinkansen, or the Hong Kong metro rail system. Or, the most extensive rail network in the world, the US freight network! Subsidizing your rail transportation via real estate is nothing new and perfectly viable. But it is a subsidy! You are giving a private company an asset or expanding their rights to an asses (zoning increase) in exchange for rail service. The company turns around and immediately sells what the government gave them for cash. That’s my problem with this. All of these people are pretending or directly saying that “Brightline never received subsidies”. That is complete nonsense! Brightline is exists exclusively because of subsidies. There is no Brightline without government intervention! It is a creature of the state if Florida justblike Tri-rail, or any other state rail service, or Amtrak. BTW, no, Brightline never plans on making money from actual tickets. Look at their prospectus. They are only ever planning on making money off real estate. The entire rail operation is just a loss-leader to sell condos. Brightline says so themselves!
The issue is that it's great now, but over time it'll become profit-minded and services will reduce, and prices will increase. Especially if that route doesn't have good train competitors. It's what happened in the UK, now on a national level our train travel is generally a mix of private companies which are expensive and not always well integrated with each other or other public transportation (esp in terms of tickets and flexibility)
One more thing about Amtrak. It is publicly funded and the funding has to go through Congress. Which means if you want this new train to be blended into Amtrak, you'll want it to go through Congress now for its funding and it's survival. You haven't done your homework.
If you new how Amtrak started up, you would know that what he explained is exactly they way it was created. Amtrak took over private bankrupted passenger lines. It would definitely be possible.
@@banksrail Brightline had its first profitable month despite not being predicted to do so. Brightline’s parent company is a large investment group that develops the real estate surrounding the station. They are not a mass transit company; their target demographics are vacationers and businessmen. This is their niche business strategy and how they plan to turn a profit. Also, Orlando will not be the end of the line after they extend to Tampa as planned and will be a massive money maker because of every amusement park being there.
I honestly can't wait until BrightLine finally makes it to Orlando & connects to Miami! A lot of people travel between both cities on a weekly basis and the traffic especially on I-95 is horrendous at times.
True very true! Traffic between Orlando to Fort Lauderdale and Miami is terrible and some of the drivers might be talking on the phone, driving drunk or with illegal drugs in their system or weaving in and out, driving at high speed, this is all stressful driving for the normal driver plus it’s not relaxing it is sitting in a train and working on your iPad or watching a movie.
I'm hoping for Amtrak to expand its service to be more similar to brightline here in Michigan between Detroit and Chicago. My town of Ann Arbor is right on the line and its walking distance to downtown (or I can bike there in ~8 minutes). The trains sometimes get up to 110mph on the route from what I've found with expansions coming. But 3 round trips per day is just not going to cut it. Hourly (or half hourly) between two sizable midwest cities seems plausible and I think ridership would directly follow. Great to hear your experience was so great on Brightline, rail travel and public transit in general need better marketing! Its a great, relaxing, and usually affordable way to travel.... even if this one is privately owned.
I took that same train when I was in college, only I traveled on the Ann Arbor-Pontiac section of the route. While the train can do over 100 mph in the western part of Michigan due to the lower population density, it doesn't get anywhere near that speed once you get to Metro Detroit. Going from U of M to home was 55 minutes by car (and at worst, 1.5 hours during the holidays when the roads were clogged with everyone leaving campus), but the same trip by train is 2 hours - and that's if it's not delayed (the first time I ever took the train home it was delayed by an hour). Even in the worst, most frustrating rush hour traffic, driving is still quicker than taking the train. Another issue with Amtrak is the accessibility of its coaches and platforms. None of the stations that I saw had elevated platforms, so you have to climb into the coaches from ground level. Not an issue for me since I'm fully mobile, and always traveled light when taking the train since it was for quick weekend trips home, but I always wondered how someone with limited mobility got in these things.
Hello and thanks for your post. I just happened to visit Chicago and Detroit recently and took the trip between the two cities with Amtrak's Woverine (I remember that the we served the station of Ann Arbor). As a European, I was appalled to see how infrequent, slow and unreliable the service was between two such key "neighboring" cities. I'm not into European-American "wars" and I honestly wish you improved passenger train services. Hoepfully, with the growig success of Brightline serving as a role model for your country as a whole, plus the development of Texas Central and the huge federal grant recently voted for passenger rail, things are set to improve. My best wishes!
I use Brightline from Fort Lauderdale to MIA twice a month. However when I come back I use tri-rail as one service per hour makes the entire trip that much longer and the uncertainty of when my plane lands makes buying the tickets in advance impossible. With added frequency I am sure BL could serve mire people. Also annoying you habe to ger there 15’ early or they will not let you board. Making it possible to buy tickets at the turnstiles with apple pay or the likes as you can do with Metrorail, would make it far more convenient and popular.
that's so strange! in the UK you can't get to the platform if there's a barrier if you're 3 minutes or less before departure but for most stations you need a ticket before boarding
@@kennethhanks6712 AND because of this you still have the same problem as in the West Palm Miami leg: frequent grade crossings which limit the speed (and increase probability of incidents.) AFTER the track turns to the east west leg does the rail become 'high speed' due to no grade crossings and the track completely fenced and or elevated. The north south leg is classed as 'higher speed' no 'high speed' and these are legal terms with regard to speeds possible for safety reasons.
Agree the removal of crossings needs to be reviewed for Brightline. For NC I think once the station is built in Uptown Charlotte that the use of the train should see an increase of usage. I moved outside of Charlotte and drive to the Light rail to get to work in Uptown but would rather get on a train in my town and ride it directly into Charlotte.
I'm in the NYC area and would consider taking the Carolinian down there when the new station is built, but the only thing more frustrating than the placement of the current Charlotte station is the reliability of basically any Amtrak train that runs south of Washington.
@@cco53587 the difference in NC is that the state owns the tracks vs a railroad company. It was double tracked and a lot of the crossing were eliminated or grade separated under Obama administration. While Amtrak doesn’t own them it is the next best situation they can be in.
@@cco53587 I took the Carolinian from Philly earlier this year. Since you will be on the train the whole day anyway, delays really shouldn't be too much of a bother. Things will only get better as improvements in Virginia come on line.
Since taking a train on opening day in 2018, when Brightline first ran trains only from/to Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach, I have taken about 20 trips. All have been excellent as this video describes. In February 2020 we took Brightline roundtrip from Fort Lauderdale to Miami for a cruise. Our reasonably priced tickets were for: parking, the train trip, and transportation to/from the ship terminal. It even included free checked bags and allowed us to spend time in Miami following the cruise without our bags. AND, the total cost was cheaper than either car service both ways or parking a car at the ship terminal. When guests visit I insist we take Brightlne somewhere. I look forward to service to Orlando.
I'm sorry I LOL'd at the idea that Amtrak will take over brightlines infrastructure. Considering all the money the money that has been invested into building the infrastructure plus brightlines ambitions to be a nationwide rail alternative to Amtrak it's simply not happening and I pray that it never comes close to happening. There needs to be more competition when it comes to rail services instead having one service monopolizing the entire country.
@@edwardmiessner6502 What are you even talking about? My comment is simply stating that Amtrak acquiring brightline is a comical idea and furthermore having 2 separate competing services is an overall net win for consumers.
Also, brightline owns some of the land next to the stations, which, based on the limited knowledge I have about Hong Kong metro stations, is a similar idea where the trains operate at loss, but the stations as destinations make the profits
It's also kind of similar to London's Metropolitan Line (which used to be their own company, who bought extra land around their stations and then developed it)
Brightline is perfect for Florida. Florida Man does so many things in one day and in order to get Florida Man wherever they need to go, they need a fast train. And thus Brightline helps them stay focused rather than sitting in traffic Also, the Orlando station won't be at Disney. The plan is to build one by Universal Orlando and I-Drive as those places pushed for it more. People were hoping it'd be at Disney as an alternative for the Magical Express from the airport which Disney eliminated as a perk for staying on-property. In Paris, you can go to Disneyland Paris directly from CDG on TGV in just ten minutes. Eurostar even provides a service from London-St. Pancras.
It's a real shame Disney backed out. Disney under Chapek ("Cheapek" to some) has been cutting a lot of the benefits to staying on their property and frustrating guests more with all the additional fees. I-Drive may not have the Disney brand rec but at least they're building up while Disney makes cuts and changes.
I didn’t buy a Disney annual pass like I used to do since I’m a Florida resident because some the benefits were eliminated and it cost more and so I’m going to other places in Orlando instead such as discovery cove and Universal for the first time!, and when the train starts then I’m gonna ride freight line for the first time from Orlando to Fort Lauderdale!!!!
Good video and very astute observations. Liked your comments on the view held by many when it comes to funding for Amtrak. No one complains about roads not turning a profit, but they want rail to do so. However, roads are "public" while much of the actual rail is "private" (owned by freight companies) - that may need to change for public rail travel to succeed. It will be nice when Brightline not only goes to Tampa, but Jacksonville as well.
I live in Charlotte. My mom visits from Greensboro to Charlotte on Amtrak and loves it. She's never been out of the country though so doesn't have anything to compare it to. I would love to see high speed rail in this area. We park and ride our light rail here to go downtown because parking fees downtown are painful.
Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but people need to understand that the phase one corridor has been around since the 1890s, so you can see why there are so many grade crossings. Furthermore, since the FEC runs frequently, (I am assuming based on the amount of trains I see, which seems rather frequent than compared to Class Is), grade separating the route would have to also allow the FEC to access their yards and customers. Finally, I counted the total grade crossings between Miami and WPB, and the total I found was 174 level crossings, that's an average of about 2.6 crossings per mile.
Good point, and to expand on that, the section under construction from WPB up to Cocoa is basically double-tracking the existing Florida East Coast tracks. The section west of Cocoa is on a new right-of-way and is entirely grade separated to the Orlando station. The future extension to Universal, Disney (maybe), and Tampa will also be grade-separated.
USA prefers and glorifies individualism over social benefit, so USA will never have decent public services (public transportation, healthcare...) like Europe has.
But Americans also love American Exceptionalism especially in its military prowess and in its law and order. Which means despite not having the decent public and social services Europe has we'll pay just as much in taxes, except for large corporations and the rich.
Would be pretty cool if we had a Brightline style service in Texas. San Antonio to Waco is 4 metro areas lined up next to each other with a combined population a little less than Greater Miami.
used to live in Texas along time ago and I noticed that San Antonio has really grown in population so it would be nice if they had a reliable train service from San Antonio to Austin at least. It could make one stop in New Braunfels on the way. There could be a lot of tourists and students that would need to ride it
West palm beach to Coco can be 110mph, its still on the FEC ROW. from coco to Orlando airport it can be 125mph given its fully grade separated new line. grade separating this freight line will be nearly impossible, you can't viaduct the whole thing and given how close it is to most roads they can tunnel under or bridge over. electrification is being avoided because because they don't view it as needed yet and that would mean getting the FEC onboard. (which arguable would be a good federal test and showcase of what electrification can do for freight ops.) it will be interesting to see how Brightline West ends up being combined with California's push to connect almost all the state by hourly or better rail or bus. We've got an updated statewide rail plan due out this year. NC is at least finally getting some new cars and locos. 26 cars and 6 locos isn't too bad. Hopefully as Amtrak California orders a new fleet you can take some of our 130 California and surfliner cars rebuild them.
A great Video and I'm happy that you raise these concerns, as most are just amazed by the whistle and bells for what need to be a basic service. A train should look good, be comfortable and get you to your destination on time - the rest, like a lounge and a free bar is not important if you provide the basic. A train station is not an airport. I can get on the fast train in my city 2 minutes before it's departure and I don't seat around in the station waiting for it. I just have a few corrections. 1. An 18 month closure is not "a brief pause" 2. Japan is unique and their system works well for them. It was privatized but "private" in Japan is not the same as in other places and each company has a monopoly in a specific area (for the most parts, there are some correlations and lines that cross areas of different operators but that is the general idea and different operators of different lines, like intercity and city lines and different transport means). As for The EU, all EU members had to separate the rail infrastructure from the rail train operation so the infrastructure (rail and stations) is owned and operated by a state that needs to allow open access for both the national operator (like DB in Germany, SNCF in France or RENFE in Spain) and new privately owned operators (many are operated by other countries national operators, but not all). Italy was one of the first adopters (in Sweden it exists for much longer, even before the EU decision) but this now works all over. In Spain OUIGO (low cost brand of the French SNCF) and AVLO (the new low cost brand of the national Spanish operator RENFE) compete on a few lines and in November they will be joined by IRYO (owned by Trenitalia, Italy's national opertaor, and Air Nostrum, a Spanish airline working that operates the regional flights for IBERIA). In France Italo, the private competitor of Trenitalia in Italy, operates a line from Paris to Milan, FlixTrain operates trains in Germany and Sweden and more. This is possible only when the network itself is owned by the government. 3. For a good intercity train service you must have a good local public transport service.
You've covered excellent points that highlight the fact that North America will never catch up with Europe. The USA, in particular, fell out of love with passenger trains in the 1950s. While Brightline is a great idea, I wish it success for as long as it is able to operate.
@@Eurobazz "You've covered excellent points that highlight the fact that North America will never catch up with Europe. " Nothing to catch up with, population density of Italy is 201 people per square km, in the USA ours is 37. HSR won't be justified here for a long time. We use aircraft instead, in North America and Australia. "The USA, in particular, fell out of love with passenger trains in the 1950s" Well yes, because cars were widely available, thus rending shorter distance trains obsolete outside of rush hour, and airline flight was becoming widely available, thus rendering high speed trains obsolete (at our typical intercity distances).
". I can get on the fast train in my city 2 minutes before it's departure and I don't seat around in the station waiting for it." Are you talking about HSR? If you go to TripAdvisor most people say you should get to the HSR station 30 minutes ahead of departure. Amtrak in the USA also suggests 30 minutes ahead. Airlines start boarding 30 minutes before takeoff. The local train between San Francisco and San Jose, which is not "high speed" since it's only 50 miles, sure I get on there two minutes before departure. Totally different situation. " An 18 month closure is not "a brief pause"" Covid, ever heard of it? The public transit buses here in Silicon Valley were restricted to 9 people per bus at one point. Public transit in the USA has still not recovered its previous ridership. It's getting closer but not quite there. A lot of people only have to come in the office three days a week. "For a good intercity train service you must have a good local public transport service." And also high enough population density to justify it (EU and Japan have it, USA, Canada and Australia do not) and the distance between cities can't be too far apart.
Do you realize how much full grade separation would cost? My prediction is certain very busy at grade crossings would get separation, but forget about the full line . And your comment about speed is arbitrary, the locomotive is capable of I think 120 mph more or less, but how can it run faster will all those grade crossings you mention. Why step you criticizing it for not being public transit when it's a private company. Also you conveniently fail to mention Brighline is a subsidiary of Florida East Coast Industries which owns the the tracks this train runs on , as it was always a private railway dating back to when it was the Florida East Coast Railway . Why would they allow now a competing train service to use its tracks, ie Amtrak , Trirail etc.
FEC, the freight company, was sold to Grupo Mexico a few years back, and is no longer under FECI. The two have maintained a good relationship though. FEC has also warmed up to other passenger rail in general in recent times, allowing Tri Rail to set up Coastal Link, and a decade ago were open to hosting Amtrak from Jax to Miami on a proposed "Flagler Line".
We used to have this. Pennsylvania Railroad. New York Central. The Daylight service in California from the old Southern Pacific Railroad. The list goes on. American government screwed over the Railroads in the 1960s, then the oil crisis of 1972 led to a Government merger in Conrail which ultimately failed. Tax breaks were given to airlines and roads heavily subsidized, to where passenger rail all but dried up. People Demanded SOME type of service, which is Amtrak, but it needs major upgrades on the long haul routes. The high speed corridor in the Northeast is good but it's bottlenecked in New York City. A point of major delays. We HAD an all electric train system. We used to actually be efficient, with railroad towns, and places in walking distance from stations. But it all got tore up. Imo it was for no good reason. But sure lets DRIVE everywhere. Man... I would love to be able to just hop on a train, play games on my phone, and then arrive at work. Would be so nice
Conrail was a financial success. Granted, this was because they sold off unprofitable lines, which the private companies wanted to do before, but weren't allowed to because.... Wait for it.... The government.
@@sanchorim8014 Let's be honest here. They ran a profit because they paid themselves. Sure a good chunk was selling off stuff. I'm still upset about track 3 from Altoona to Johnstown. But selling stuff its a short term gain. look where it put us now. I dont buy that crap when Norfolk Southern can let, Saluda Grade for example, ait dormat for decades. Conrail had other deals going man
Great video! I’m very happy you’re still active on this platform and you deserve so many more views than you get. This is a great insight on Brightline and if I have to go to Florida then I would be excited to ride it.
You're absolutely right. We're more focused on subsidizing highways whereas other developed countries have shown high speed train travel has proved more useful and pays more dividends in terms of the total time traveling from point A to point B. America better get its head out its ass. We're being left behind. Quickly.
Absolutely not. California HSR is actually going to be a lot better than bright line, problem is private contractors and the corruption that comes with them ruin every large scale project, so it's gonna take forever to get there.
@@macgobhann8712 CHSR is never getting done. Funny enough, government officials in CA need to be investigated for fraud. 105 BILLION DOLLARS, and not 1 inch of track.
@@macgobhann8712 it cant be better, if it doesnt get build. Meanwhile brightline is busy hiring 11.000 construction workers to start construction of brightline west. This route will go from las vegas to rancho cucamonga, and is expected to be operational before the 2028. i am from europe and i have a good laugh at americans who dont undersstand a thing about rail in genera, let alone high speed rail. Brightline is doing things right and make the trains actually operational. Do you know that there where a lot of compromises in florida in terms of speed, i will give you an example : FEC and GRADE CROSSINGS. 1st FEC.. brightline in florida shares tracks with FEC meaning that it needs to compromise on FREQUENCY. 2nd GRADE CROSSINGS : because of the grade crossings the FRA has set a limited speed wich is another compromise. THIS is the whole reason why it is very dissapointing for americans. But people like you can not even see the positives about this. People DO take the train, wich means less congestion on the road wich is one of brightlines goals wich they slowly achieve, california because of brightline trains running makes 2 billion in extra yearly revenue. another fact : WHEN and IF CAHSR gets build and OPERATIONAL brightline west is going to use these tracks aswell to serve parts of california. Its people like you who dont understand how complicated it is to build ANYTHING in the USA. if one company is doing things right, its brightline. even under harsh USA laws and regulations. I come from the netherlands, we in our country recently have made a normal line between utrecht and amsterdam, quess how long it took from concept to completion ?.. within a year. it is now operational and running flawlessly. Your system is highly corrupt and innefective. at least brightline makes things work!.. Cant say that much from CAHSR. sorry to burst your bubble.
Amtrak really should put a brightline-style model to work in the Hiawatha corridor in Illinois and Wisconsin. Seeing as it's only 86 miles currently between Milwaukee and Chicago, I think frequency would totally take this service to the next level.
A decent amount of Japan’s trains are privatized and they are absolutely spectacular. The government should’ve never gotten the majority control of railway/train services, the government can’t run anything right.
Brightline is doing a fantastic job helping eliminate car use on Florida's congested roads. Unfortunately, this is achieved by Floridians choosing Brightline as their lead autodarwination option.
While it's an advance in US terms, compared with Europe and South-East Asia it's decades behind, for the following reasons: Brightline shares some track with freight trains; Brightline tracks have level crossings; Brightline uses diesel locomotives; Brightline's highest speed will be only 125mph.
I read an article somewhere that said that Brightline plans on running 150 mph trains on the Tampa to Orlando stretch whenever it opens. It might not be Europe or Japan level speeds, but it's a start.
The one thing I want from Brightline is electrification, providing it grows in demand and ridership. Being from NJ, we're blessed with ~30 minute interval trains on the NEC, as well as reliable Amtrak service that's fast and fully electrically powered. Though the stations make Indian stations look spotless, the actual service is still pretty good. I hope Brightline does keep improving and hopefully, when Amtrak improves it's service and reach, it'll be encompassed into a new national rail network.
The biggest problem Brightline will face is revenue. They're putting a lot of money into expansion, but they're definitely not filling trains with riders. Sure, some people ride it, but it's not financed through anything other than investment and sales. If those can't cover costs, it will degrade until it shuts down.
I feel like the Orlando expansion will make up the money. Especially if it will be cheaper, faster, and more convenient than cars, more people will most likely choose Brightline than driving cars; especially for tourists.
A very real concern, and while I don't have any insider information what I've heard as a local is that their long term goal is to pursue a mixed revenue stream like Japanese rail companies - basically using real estate and rail developments to increase the profit of both. If they'll pull it off is the real question though, and it seems like a toss up still at this point.
To each his/her own opinion. But it seems to be working so far, and looks promising with that extension to Orlando. This is what they should have done in Texas instead of that bullet train project, which seems pretty dead and buried nowadays.
They won the legal battle for use of eminent domain. Also settling for what Brightline settled for doesn’t change the face of American High Speed Rail. This is basically just a train.
@@banksrail Don't exactly get your point. Bullet trains like Texas Central's proposal are...well trains too. And that hyperloop stuff was never meant to exist either.
@@that90skid72 This is conventional train that already exist in America. What separates it from a random commuter railroad. Heck, there are commuter railroads that run faster than these trains. What Texas Central and CAHSR are doing is actually progressing America into the 21st century.
@@banksrail Yeah but America commuter and intercity network is very poor. It better that America strengthens conventional rail network and have normal rail. Because no country except China and maybe Japan that has HSR focused rail network.
@@natenae8635 Uderstandable. But, that puts projects like Texas Central in a separate league than Brightline. They aren’t comparable. That’s why I compare it to an average commuter train.
Agree with just about everything except for wanting Amtrak to take it over. That's about the worst possible scenario. Maybe Amtrak can learn from Brightline and copy their business model - perhaps first along the Piedmont route.
@@macgobhann8712 No, they don't. They know they will stay operational as long as there is a willing Congress who continously throws money into their bottomless pit. If they were like a real business, they would cut useless employees and be incentivied to try to turn a profit.
As both a Miami and Raleigh resident, I'm digging this content! Keep it up. You're doing a great job and you deserve more subs! Both south Florida and Orlando are filled with European tourists, and I am guessing that linking the two areas is going to be a huge win for both markets since international tourists will fly into one and are more likely to explore by rail.
That’s true that southern Florida and Orlando are popular with European and also British tourists especially in the winter when they come to the sunshine. I see them in the airport
We already saw a taste of what problems the for-profit/private part might cause during COVID when they completely shut down for a year while most of the public options were reduced, but not completely eliminated.
hmm here in Silicon Valley, the buses were effectively shut down...you could only have 9 people on a bus at one point. And VTA isn't anywhere close to regaining all the money it lost during the shutdown. Nor have they recovered the ridership.
@@drivver4470 "were the private trans companies forced to closed while public was allow to run?" well, I can't speak for the Brightline service in Florida, but I can tell that the public ones here in the San Francisco Bay Area never completely closed down BUT at one point they were only letting 9 people on the bus at a time. For those of us who still had to go to work (I was working in a medical device warehouse), it was really frustrating. The transit ridership still has not returned from the old days but it's getting a lot closer.
You're comparing roads and utilities to passanger trains is not a great ideal because the government doesn't operate your car they simply build the road. Also your argument in general sounds very socialist. You're essentially saying that even though the government has failed to produce good rail service in the US the best passanger train that is privately owned would be better if the government took it over? European style rails comes at massive expense to the taxpayers. And as California has proven even when you have 40% tax rate you still can't succeed in making good high speed rail in the US government.
I would love to see a Houston to New Orleans line with stops in Beaumont, Lake Charles, Lafayette and Baton Rouge. A further extension to Pensacola with stops in Gulfport and Mobile would be excellent and at the end link up with a Brightline extension northwest from Orlando.
I'm in Fayetteville NC. There were some pamphlets in the Amtrak station talking about implementing regional state rail. This was 2007. Like regional rail from Wilmington to Fayetteville to Charlotte to Asheville. It would've open the state to a large amount of people who would prefer rail if it was available. The reason why North Carolina is a good candidate for this plan, is because of how populations are distributed throughout the state.
IMO regional rail are more viable in the former 13 colonies than the midwest due to the dense development/ expansion. even amtrak's own best corridor are in that "segment" where there's still more people density compare to the midwest. i think if you overlay the old rail corridors and their account books, it could say the same story.
@@PrograError Did I mentioned anything about the Midwest in my comment? Anyway, it only has been very recently that THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA seen growth. And it was not by accident, but a plan that was concocted by regional planners of that time. By the way, CHICAGO; the state of Illinois has the largest amount of rail going through it. And it happens to be the Midwest region. So please save it!😡
OK thoughts, comparing private operations in the UK is very much a oranges and apples comparison. UK rail operators were having to pay a large franchise fee just to get off the ground, then more to the rail operator, and then try to make a profit. Brightline may have to maintain the rails themselves, but well, they get don't pay many of the other fees. Secondly, you want to take a currently well operated private system and then merge it back to the public one? Unfortunately almost always when that happens it's the case of the better service gets dragged down t othe standard fo the rest of the system. Not vice versa. Anyway the big issue I understand from the outside looking in is the one thing Europe has recently started to get right and honestly it's just not going to happen there in the US. The KEY issue is having 'neutral' rail ownership. That is the companies who own the rails are independent of everyone running trains on them. In the US that would involve some form of nationalization/forces divestment of the rails from their current owners. (Who are I believe almost all cargo rail companies) Only then will passenger rail get half a chance at competing.
Had not Amtrak been chronically underfunded it may well have already been servicing key sectors with high quality, high frequency, fast passenger trains. I'm sure other potential private operators are watching Brightline very closely. If Brightline is a success other operators are sure to copy it elsewhere. If Amtrak don't, or are not allowed to get in on servicing the profitable sectors with a premium service, they will be left with the sectors that the private operators won't touch
The US needs to place the ownership and maintenance of the permanent way in the hands of a public/private company away from the likes of BNSF, CSX etc. This will allow for track upgrades after which Amtrak can operate at faster speeds and not be affected by freight trains. It will be a more level playing field. Is this likely to happen, of course not.
@@Eurobazz That is theft of billions of dollars worth of private infrastructure. If they did, they better compensate the companies by buying it all and the land it is on at current market price. I will support forcing the companies to cooperate with Amtrak and not being actively hostile towards passenger rail (Looking at you CSX). Also in Europe, they have too many trucks on the road and not as much freight rail. If you make the rail mostly passenger, then you have lots more traffic and pollution than reduced due to trucks and lots of freight moved to the road.
I would like to see the Piedmont train extended down to Wilmington. That can help unlock more potential for tourist coming to the beach. We just finished a new bus terminal near the new proposed station sight to get people too and from the station
Yes. The accessibility is insanely good. Full level boarding with dedicated seats for people in wheelchairs. Even the bathrooms are fully wheelchair accessible
Highly interesting report about a highly interesting service. That said, what's the point of beating cars in terms of speed between Miami and West Palm Beach if you have to arrive 1/2 hour or more ahead of departure because of stupid airline-style stuff like check-in, security checks, lounges, boarding etc.? Seen from Europe, Broghtline looks very promising for the future of passenger rail travel in the USA (at least in Florida) but, if they want it to be competitive against car travel and to be a real train service, they'll need to drop the airline-style fuss. Let people who really want to enjoy a lounge, snack, drink, enjoy it if they want but please don't impose the fuss of airports on all rail travelers. Other than that, thumbs up for this very bright line!
Completely disagree. Brightline is the best case scenario because you get the best rail product on the map and tax payers do not have to pay to support it. Public transport on rail should only exist where private attempts have failed. The private sector will do its job better than a government run company, that’s a reality. If the private business attempt proves impossible, then public should take over, but trying to challenge a private org with a public org destroys future opportunities for investment into businesses because no one will want to go toe to toe with a business that has no interest in making money and an unlimited budget. If Brightline proves to be a wild success, you will see top of the line rail transport in Florida, Vegas, and maybe even in Texas. Amtrak isn’t going to do any of that in our lifetime. This is a fantastic opportunity for the US to restart its private rail sector and god forbid we get some innovation. Call me when Sunrail or Amtrak innovates anything at all.
I live in Massachusetts and our MBTA Commuter Rail service, while decently accomplishing its main purpose of public transport, leaves lot to be desired. Old carriages from the 70s, underfunded services, and slow travel times in relation to the importance of a city like Boston. It would be great to even have hand-me-downs from Amtrak once they retire their current diesel engines that run in New England.
Your title on the video says "privatized". Private and Privatized are two different things. It was always private as it did not replace anything public that needed to be contracted out or "privatized".
Brightline has free transfers to / from the major airports and cruise terminals. As far as I’m aware, you only need the 2 hour advanced reservation if you specifically want the Tesla ride.
I think Brightline's business model is wrong. The company shouldn't be providing free taxis and airport style waiting rooms. Remove these frills and increase the service to half-hourly.
You, and it's not your fault. Alot of rail fans do this when taking a look on American rail lines. Back before the government got involved and we had private lines everywhere. The US had the best in the world. But when the Federal government got involved it all went to crap.
The reason that the private operators are doing this is *because* the government is too stingy and cheap or the government-run systems are too incompetent to do so on their own.
What’s the hatred for private compared to the deplorable service of Amwreck. Amwreck would destroy Brightlines charm. Long distance they are needed not intercity. You complain about lack of service where there could be ridership try growing up on Long Island with the worst train service out east.
ive seen people being somewhat negative towards the fact that this is a privately run system but its ultimately a good thing that the private market is getting involved the private market is one of the reasons why we had soo much rail in the US government does a horrible job at managing things and should be the least involved when possible
While it's a nice idea of having a train being treated as public transportation, keep this in mind it has to be supported by fees and taxes from the public who uses it. Much like the road maintenance is supported by taxes and fees, public transportation such as train has to be treated as such. You want private? Private will charge you. Either way you get gouged. Nothing is free, nothing.
The difference between public and private is the while the user is the one that, theoretically, fully pays for the service when it's private so only those who can pay for it can use it a public service is usually paid by a regressive tax, so those who have more pay more than those who have less and it is available for all who needs it. In a basic service like transport when people need it to make a living it must be available to all. That said many private services are actually financed by both their users and the taxpayer as they get "intensives", tax reductions, they pay unlivable wages, so the public finance aid for those workers who cannot afford a house, food, education, health and have a hard time paying for a car they need to get this low paying job. Road maintenance costs a lot of money but it also helps the economy to function and grow but it is a very limited and the least efficient way for large amounts of people to travel. An investment in public transport to provide local and intercity transport with a good, reliable and affordable service will creepiness the ability of people to find work, improve the movement of people and increase the economic growth far more than what it will cost to build and maintain. I know many Americans don't like to do it but look at other countries - they have far better lives than you. They live longer, healthier, with more time to be with their families and relax and they have better education than you. Yes, they pay more taxes but when you calculate the cost and quality of the services they get for those higher taxes vs what you privately pay for a far worst level of similar service you end up paying much more.
Not only that but Japan's rail companies own real estate around stations and end up turning a profit anyway from renting, so having transport isn't just about the ticket price.
Its unsustainable in most of the US.The density isn't there to support good transit. If your city is 4 blocks of office buildings surrounded by single family homes with quarter acre yards for miles the only way to fix it is to upzone and rebuild from the middle out - in which case you'd want to move closer to your job anyway.
@@LrdZanny well, the type of housing is irrelevant. We just don't have the population to have the same population density as Europe. Our population density in the USA is 37 per square km. In Italy it's 201 per square km. Europe has 700 million people in the same space that we only have 300 million. So until the 1000 years have passed that Europe had to grow their population....HSR is not justified. What you can justify is "higher speed rail", average 90 mph as opposed to the typical 35 mph. Basically Higher Speed Rail means make any upgrades you can short of buying more private land to create another "right of way". Improve signaling, put better barriers for grade crossings or eliminate the crossings, put an extra railroad track in there at specific places so you can go around freight trains, etc.
@@neutrino78x when you state the population density United States is 37 per square KM that does not give the whole picture such as are you figuring the countryside in your computation. The United States has many big cities with high density they’ve grown rapidly specially Florida many people moved there from New York City, Boston and many other cities.
@@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 "The United States has many big cities with high density they’ve grown rapidly specially Florida many people moved there from New York City, Boston and many other cities." We sure do, and all those cities have public transit. We have public transit connect San Jose, San Francisco and Oakland too, two major train systems (Caltrain and BART). I am by no means against it. But when you say "replace aviation with trains" that has to include going from one dense area to another, ok. And in the USA they're VERY far apart. Manchester is less than 200 miles from London, but New York is NOT less than 200 miles from Chicago. It's 800 miles, and that would take HSR at least four hours and be very expensive to construct, and therefore a waste of money because a jet can fly it half the time. Should we improve the speed of existing public transit trains between those areas? Absolutely. Just don't spend 100 billion on it, that's not justified when the private sector has it covered and does a MUCH better job. HSR struggles to find an application here in the USA and also Canada and Australia. In the dense areas, you don't need it because the cities are close together and even a 90 or 100 mph train would be fine, and going from one dense area to another, it's not useful because the distance is too great. The way we do it is fine....public transit for cities within a dense area like The Bay Area or the NEC, aviation for travel between those areas.
A few thoughts: First 79mph is not fast. Where I live (Southern England), the slow trains run at 100mph, and the fast ones run at 140mph. Hourly is not frequent. At peak times, we have 12 fast trains, 4 semi-fast trains (110mph) and 4 slow trains per hour. Off-peak, it is 6 fast, 2 semi-fast and 2 slow. A lot of people say that the USA can't have trains because the country is too big for them to make sense. That is probably true, but Florida isn't too big to have trains, Texas isn't too big to have trains, California isn't too big to have trains. Trains need to be planned on a more regional level, either individual states, or a few neighbouring states, and the Federal Government should just be setting national standards for things like track and loading gauge, power supplies, signalling standards and so on, so that you can have cross-border rail trips between the different regions. The best country in the world for rail is Japan, and it has lots of competing private rail companies. The difference between Japan Rail and the failed British model is that each company has its own stations and tracks, and there is actual competition on individual routes. For example if you are in Osaka, and you want to go to Kyoto, you can go to the Japan Rail station and get a train there, or you can go next door to the Hankyu Railway station for an alternative train service. The distance is about 55km (35 miles), Hankyu run trains about every 3 minutes, ticket price is ¥410 ($3). Japan Rail is also about every 3 minutes, ticket price ¥570 ($4), trains are a bit faster than Hankyu's.
Actually, MORE private transit should be allowed (the government gets in the way), exactly like it was during the Victorian Era when those now government owned lines were built. The government inherited what private business built and they have done a horrible job maintaining and expanding the systems. Bring back PRIVATE COMPETITION!!!
You are quite right to mention Japan and Italy as two countries where private operator harmoniously compete with the national ones. In Europe, you also have the Czech Republic as a great and successful example of this (with Leo Express and RegioJet), plus Austria (with RegioJet and Westbahn), just to mention the two most striking examples. In addition, Italy's State operator Treintalia is weirdly enough profiling itself as a "private competitor", challenging RENFE and SNCF in Spain and Italy on their own turf, and it may expand to more countries. Last but not least, a private operator of night/sleeper trains is being born in Belgium and the Netherlands: it's called European Sleepers.
Rail in the US, even though its inefficient, and never even goes to where you want it to. Is still so fun to travel on. There's so many upsides to it. As someone in the Denver Metro, I've taken the Commuter Rail system to Denver a couple times. And it's just such a nice experience. It's faster (They go from like 55-80mph). And you get to see scenery while not dealing with traffic. It's also better for the environment, because they use electric lines. Such a shame that the US, even when we try to build highspeed rail *cough cough California*, we are not able to due to lack of funding and unsupportive politicians saying it's a waste of money and taxpayer dollars. Then we go spend billions on Automotive infrastructure.
1/ The electric trains are a better investment then dirty, toxic Air pollution from fossil fuel oil, coal and natural gas. Plus high speed real is better then highways. Rail line and highways both require $$. Ask yourself which delivery better ROI for the customer and which delivers long term ROI $$ for business that get the contract to upkeep the highways. ......The suckers in Florida state lawmakers and business owners of Brightline. Plus the state lawmakers and company sold of the community and lobby to not build none share roadways. This mean its not High Speed, that may are spreading lies in marketing it as....In South Florida the train goes though several high traffic areas. That requires the street car traffic to stop and permit the train to past. Because the suckers did not build rail with overpasses. Don't permit this to occur in your community. Lock them up and then send them to North Korea in a hard labor prison. Just saying how they SUCK towards those they serve the share holders not the customers and tax payers.
I wonder if there are any lessons Amtrak can take from Bright Line and use in their current and future routes? As far as private vs. public, I know what you mean, but I think most local, regional and national rail lines started out as private entities, so maybe that’s just the way the US rolls. The one good thing about Bright Line being high end is that it may help raise the reputation of intercity train travel in the US.
Brightline is a lot more subsidized than Amtrak. That’s basically the entire difference. Amtrak was at breakeven before the pandemic. And this despite the fact that Amtrak is required by Congress to run extremely unprofitable long distance trains. The only reason they’re not bankrupt yet is because the Northeastern Corridor and their intercity lives are very profitable. Brightline gets direct cash subsidies, real estate deals that they sell for cash, and even their bonds are subsidized by the government. Brightline basically sells condo to pay for a loss-leader train that they use to sell more condos. We could implement this same system for Amtrak tomorrow and subsidize it to the same level, but the Republicans won’t allow for that to happen.
Privately owned Rail or any business don't have that get out of the failing hole like taxpayer owned systems like Amtrak or MTA. The risk for failure is excessively high. So those Privately own rail will go above and beyond to succeed and cater to customers. Taxpayer funded systems never have to worry about failure unless the policy says so. However since they depend on tax dollars and can get out of the legal trouble since who's gonna check the government? So there's no incentive to really cater the customer base. I'm born in and lived in New York City for many years and the MTA transit is inexcusably the most disappointing, disgusting, and dangerous in the country possibly the world for a first world country. Throwing money into a terrible system doesn't solve anything. Also to add the excessively Bureaucratic nightmare that the transit systems face also holds it back as well.
I would argue that profitability shouldn't be downplayed, and that the idea of allowing for perpetual money loss is the biggest flaw with the idea of a government-run system. Profitability is also a good measurement of operational efficiency and the overall value of a service; an unprofitable service may either be wasteful and inefficient, or simply not in demand. Allowing a state-run system to continually lose money is a horrible idea, especially if nobody is even using it. It takes money away from the budget that could be used better, and only provides a benefit to a handful of people.
This is a reminder how a shame It is that roads and airlines are put on a pedestal far above Public transit, bus, train etc I think Brightline is a great thing along with similar rail Alternatively in spite of its issues More DC WMATA Metro-Rail type rail systems scattered throughout the US / North America Would be super amazing as well
I don't understand the state-worship and desire for everything to be a government service in the urbanist community. I'd prefer to have as many things privately owned and operated as possible. I suspect there would be much more (privately owned) public transit and better city design in general if not for the regulations imposed by the government and government subsidies for car-centric infrastructure. It seems to me that government has been the problem and more government is not the solution.
I wonder who lobbies/lobbied government to implement car oriented development and force cities to be designed around the automobile. Gee it couldn't be the massive privately owned automobile companies could it? I really don't understand how you look at all the places in the world that have great transit oriented cities, great public transit, and great rail service and come away with "nah the fact that all of these places have heavy government intervention in transit development means nothing, in fact, we need more private intervention!".
@@macgobhann8712 I think your own argument works against you here. Maybe they did lobby for that, but it's still the government implementing it. My approach of getting the government out of things eliminates the effects of the lobbying. I stand by my view of less government intervention.
Yeah that is one thing I don't get about people who say Amtrak needs to make money they cannot make money along they have the long distance roots so the only way for them to make money is just to eliminate the long distance roots but that would not be good so honestly it shouldn't even matter
Since I've first heard of it, I knew Brightline would be good for the whole state of Florida. One of the main reasons why is because of "induced demand" if more people are off the highways and taking the train, traffic will improve. Let's hope Brightline continues to expand to Tampa and to the other cities in Florida.
one of the moticators is that Florida doesnt have an income tax for the average person (it does have a corperate income tax) however there are massive amounts of toll stations on the interstate highways which is one of the primary ways the state gets funded
Additionally, since traffic is an exponential problem even just a minor shift of say 5% of highway cars to the train will result in a significantly improved traffic flow for the highway. (Assuming that latent demand of people already avoiding the congested highway doesn't immediately fill up the space made by the train, which just means the train needs enough capacity to soak up all the latent demand an then some to actually improve the highway's traffic issues)
I can’t wait until brightline gets to Orlando. I would love to do a weekend beach getaway to south Florida without the stress of driving or expense of flying.
I took a commuter train from Amsterdam to Brussels while working in Europe. It was old and noisy and made so many stops. At the stations the loud speakers were set to max and you could not even have a mobile conversation. The stations did not have lounges so I would say this looks to be levels above what most routes in Europe are like.
You are comparing apples and oranges here. A commuter train is meant to make many stops and is not comparable to an inter-city train. Also there is so much train travel in Europe, these airport style lounges would be impractical
@@donnerwetter1905 Yes I know but Brighline is basically a commuter train. He makes it sound like al trains in Europe are superior and that is not true. I have also rode the Eurostar from London to Paris and back, it wasn’t anything special and no perks at all that I saw unless I missed them.
@@asquithmainlines699 Brightline is inter-city rail. They are also planning commuter rail, but it is not becoming a reality before 2024. Stations like these would be impractical with commuter rail, as commuter rail has much more stations and many more passengers. The German S-Bahn or the French RER is commuter rail. The ICE, TGV or Eurostar are inter-city trains. They are also high speed, which makes them superior to those Brightline trains, which are made by Siemens, which is a European company btw. You can search for Berlin central station on yt. That station is superior to any Brightline station.
@@donnerwetter1905 I have been to the Hard Rock Cafe in Berlin but we were driving. Have you rode the high speed trains in Japan? From what I have heard they set the standard. Defiantly on my bucket list. Canada has the Rocky Mountaineer that runs between Vancouver to Jasper and or Banff, it is a tourist train but one of the best. When I travel I prefer a One Ton Duramax and slide in Camper, home on wheels. Best part is when you see something interesting you can stop and check it out. Neither a train or plane offers that option.
@@asquithmainlines699 Japan has separated tracks for HSR and the other trains, which gives them an advantage. Here in Europe all the trains, inter-city, commuter and cargo are sharing the same tracks. That makes operation a much bigger challenge. With low passenger numbers and tourist orientation you can do different things. There 5700 train stations in Germany alone. Keeping them all in good shape is not so easy. Brightline does operate only a handful of stations.
I was actually in the Raliegh-Cary area over the weekend and used Amtrak to get there from Florida. I'm SUPER excited for Brightline because my Amtrak experience SUUUCKED. But it sucked in a "Not Amtrak's fault" Kinda way. I could just tell that they were under-staffed, under-funded, and under-supported. The trains were still packed. So there IS a demand for inter-city/state rail in the US. Once Brightline gets hooked up to Orlando it's going to be a ground-zero for how much it's going to used. There's a tone of people who in Orlando that are 'From' other parts of the state who moved for business, retirement, and schooling. Going from South Florida to Orlando via rail will be a huge boon for a lot of them. On top of that, the planed expansion to Disney will greatly benefit a lot of people in the city, because it's going to be much easier to hop on Brightline than having to fight the Mad Max experience that is I-4 and Disney parks. I hope Orlando sees the Boon from this and starts to expand the Sun Rail, get an East-West going. Plz.
Come on, do a little research. Phase 3 is completely different and won’t be going to Disney Springs. This was huge news a few weeks ago because Disney got angry that they failed lobbying to have the only stop in Orlando besides MCO. Instead it’ll have a stop between the OCCC and Epic Universe before continuing west to Tampa.
I’ve ridden the Brightline 5 times in the past few weeks. I’ve lived in S. Florida for 30+ years and rarely go to Palm Beach. Now, because of the Brightline, I’ve been there 2x this month alone.
Palm Beach is awesome and there’s so much to do right within walking distance of the station.
Super clean stations and trains. The staff are great.
As you point out, the Premium services are great.
Yep the more modes of transport the more accessible places become.
It’s good for people finding jobs in the city and good for those who don’t want to live in the city to commute.
This is the great benefit of good public transportation and why they don't need to be profitable themselves; it'll boost local economies and improve lives socially too.
The addition of their Tesla cabs for taking you the last mile is key-if they didn’t offer that, then you might feel more pressure to rent a car because you need to get from the station to your final destination. The pickup and drop off component of it really is a difference maker that makes it worth it. Last thing you want is to be stuck with an Uber surge or running down a cab. This makes it easy, affordable and effortless
@@tomoconnell2320 yes I’m really glad I have some alternate to get somewhere instead of renting a car for just a short distance
I can hardly wait to travel in Brightline, as soon as the line from Orlando airport is finished I will also travel and see Fort Lauderdale and West Palm for the first time since I don’t like and enjoy toll road driving
Japan, for just one major example, proves that private and public railroads can coexist successfully.
technically JR East and West basically focused only the Shinkansen, the rural/ local routes outside of tokyo are basically mothballs and money sinks to their accountants. many former main route has been downgrade or given to the local council to run.
Key to successful private rail is to have competition. Plenty of railway options in Japan and in various parts of the EU.
The big success is they own real estate. Owning and developing properties around the stations. You find department stores like Keio, Odakyu, Seibu, Keisei in and around Tokyo. Also being traded in the stock exchange.
JR East also operates the Yamanote Line in Tokyo. It is the main line in the city. Always busy. Sometimes very busy. Standing room only.
Thank you! This commie doesnt get it, and compares European rail. Japan is the standard undoubtedly
Whilst Brightline is an "express train" between major cities, they are planning on creating a second service that will stop at many new not yet built stations in South Florida that will serve the local commuters. A Ft Lauderdale Airport Station will connect to an intermodal garage, where a light rail "loop" will run from the airport, cruise port and Brightline station. Similarly, extensions at the Miami Station will connect to Miami Airport and Cruise Port. Universal Studios in Orlando has donated land for a future Brightline Station that will serve them and the convention center. The goal is to market Brightline as a means of connecting the major tourist centers, increasing options for vacationers already in Orlando. By hopping on Brightline, visitors can go to a casino in Tampa or Ft Lauderdale in the morning, then go back to their hotels that same evening. With the South Florida local service, residents can have alternatives to driving. To help fund the railroad, Brightline built apartment buildings next to the Miami and West Palm Beah stations. Profits from those go to keep Brightline running, They did their homework and the future is looking good!
I sure would rather take the train than drive between those busy cities. As soon as the Orlando one starts I’m taking the train.!!
80 people have been killed by this Train since it started running in Florida. Of course it’s not the trains fault but they need to up crossing safety 100%
Good video! Very logical and nuanced perspective :)
I understand the want to beat a freight train but passenger trains are so short and rare it’s ridiculous to try to beat them it will be less than a minute of your life
Once an hour is the bare minimum in many European countries. Amtrak should run hourly on all state sponsored routes!!!! Especially the Michigan services
In the US, roads and highways have been constructed and maintained almost entirely by tax dollars. Rail transport, on the other hand, receives far less support. As fuel costs rise, transporting people by rail is far more energy-efficient than by automobile, and that's where our tax dollars should go.
Time to do what was done before in 1917: nationalization.
@@ianhomerpura8937 I remember watching a video about the nationalized railroads during World War 1. At the end of the War the roads were just handed back to the rail companies in a very dilapidated condition. The government did minimal to zero maintenance!
@@edwardmiessner6502 interesting that is the case in the mainland US.
In the Philippines, the Wilson government nationalized the Manila Railroad Company, and it has been under state control since. They never gave it back to its British owners, even after independence in 1946.
The big reason the feds created the interstate program is because Eisenhower wanted a road network for the military. I’m sure if it weren’t for that more highways in the US would have been funded by state bonds and tolls to pay those bonds.
" As fuel costs rise, transporting people by rail is far more energy-efficient than by automobile,"
Not if the distance is greater than 200 miles, that's when the plane is a lot faster, or less than 50 miles, where cars are dominant.
In about 20 years, cars won't use fossil. They'll all use batteries or H2.
Your main complaint is that the car is privately owned, right? You want the state to own and control the means of production? From each according to his means to each according to his needs?
I really hope this Brightline service works. They need to rezone the areas around these stations. Single family homes cannot support a service like this. You need dense communities. I don't mean, residential towers but multi family homes, townhomes, etc. Walkable communities. And pressure these townships to expand their transit within their communities. Create some Transit oriented communities.
i mean these stations are mostly in downtowns im pretty sure. I know the miami one is with access to the metro mover, though the mover is kinda slow. I think what ur talking ab isnt just needed for brightline but for everywhere especially with metro cause the metro just cant get enough tax funding with single family homes to expand to make it worth it. It would help traffic so much but the density or competent politicians arent there to support it
doesn't the same company own the land at the start and end of the line? And it's already dense, I thought? (or at least planned, by the parent company, to be dense)
Residential towers would be great though.
@@LrdZanny I agree, I don't see a problem with them. I've always been a fan of dense housing. In the video it looked like it's already pretty dense?
@@LrdZanny they built apartments alongside the west palm beach station. Ironically, half the height of the building is a parking garage. Kind of defeats the purpose.
You've expressed alot of my concerns with brightline that I haven't heard anywhere else. I have some bets with people how long it'll exist before the state or Amtrak takes it over. I'm giving it 15years.
communist
Amtrak should disappear as well as “public” roads, if there was no brightline there would be nothing as always.
Hello Alan. I figured you'd be here. Although I'm also concerned about the private sector's fundamental need for profit, their increased amount of funding gives Brightline more opportunity to expand its frequencies and overall quality when compared to a federal ro state funded route at the mercy of whoever is in office.
I’m hoping it stays for awhile. Maybe it will encourage Amtrak to be more competitive
@@tehangrybird345 To which it kind of did. Amtrak is now proposing regional service between Miami and Tampa along their existing ex Seaboard route, but I'm not sure when it'll start service, and it certainly won't be as frequent as Brightline.
I'd gladly take that bet. I'm not a rich man, I'll put $50 up. $50 says it's still in private hands and doing great 15 years from now. If it is, you owe me $100.
Orlando will be their big money maker. As far as Amtrak taking it over...the only way that would happen is if it were to fail. If anything I'd like to see Brightline compete with Amtrak on key corridors.
Thank you. Someone who knows
I'd love to see them co-operate on the FEC line, running all the way from Jax to Miami: Brightline stopping in major cities like St. Augustine, Jax, and Cocoa, Amtrak filling in stops in between. FEC seems like a reasonable freight company to work with so far, provided that the passenger railroads they work with pick up their share of the tab.
@@sanchorim8014 I think brightline already helped them a lot especially the upgrade on the line up to the divergent to the airport
Amtrak should get booted out of Florida they are useless
Amtrak sucks big monkey balls. Especially in Atlanta and all of Georgia it’s sucks huge massive piles of shit. Literally no train service from Atlanta to savannah, Atlanta to Chattanooga, Atlanta to Orlando or any part of Florida.
If Amtrak takes over you can say goodbye the the extra amenities you said you enjoyed.
If it means better and cheaper service, then good.
@@macgobhann8712 Brightline is offering better service then Amtrak offers anywhere in the country. If Amtrak takes over, there is no doubt that service quality will decrease. While the video fails to mention it, Amtrak actually offers service in the same cities as Brightline. The trains travel half the speeds, and its only 2 trains per direction per day, so service is cut drastically... infact, they aren't even operating it currently as a result of COVID/shortages.
If Amtrak takes over, this is what is in store:
- 50% average speed reduction
- 75% reduction in trains per day
- removal of all amenities that this guy was impressed about
- no further expansions
- station locations need to be changed to be more "equitable"... stations need to be worried about making sure they are servicing the poor and needy rather than focused on the profit motive, which is to get as many people onto the train as possible
Tri Rail also serves the same exact area, but is publicly run. When gas prices first hit $4 a gallon, ridership on Tri Rail was way up, almost every train was hitting capacity as people were trying to save money. And what does the public system do at that point? They realize that with more people riding it, operational costs are up, they are going over budget, and cut the number of trains per day, because the motive wasn't profit or to maximize ridership. Brightline obviously would have added trains. they are taking delivery of more trains right now to increase service frequency with the launch of the Orlando extension. Brightline also is exploring increasing speeds to 150mph in some areas as part of the Tampa extension after Orlando. Things that would never happen with Amtrak.
@@macgobhann8712Amtrak is more than brightline.
While we don't have high-speed rail, I still appreciate trains. A private train has helped me get to my presidential summits in China, Russia, and Vietnam. Trains are rooted in the planet's history and have helped connect so many places, and so it is important to treat them with respect
Once Korean reunification is achieved, we'd be able to have access to the south's high-speed network.
Yeah and your father was known to be a great "consumer" of train trips.
Yessir! Thank you Chairman.
Private rail ain't so bad. A lot less bureaucracy political bickering over what gets built.
Also public/private partnerships can add an addition means of funding and expansions.
Brightline is privately owned but not privately funded. They get both cash subsidies and indirect subsidies in the form of real estate that they sell for cash.
@@TohaBgood2 every industry gets subsidized, and giving land to railroads is far from anything new. (Its literally how the intercontinental railroad got paid for)
I think that once they get the rest of their expansions built (or atleast the Orlando connection done) they will be self sustaining. (And if not the externalities of the train like decreased highway congestion may be seen as too important by the state of Florida to let the train die, which could lead to subsidies for the company to keep them solvent and operational.)
@@jasonreed7522 Yes, that is all correct. Some of the best rail transportation systems in the world are funded like that. Just look at the Japanese Shinkansen, or the Hong Kong metro rail system. Or, the most extensive rail network in the world, the US freight network!
Subsidizing your rail transportation via real estate is nothing new and perfectly viable. But it is a subsidy! You are giving a private company an asset or expanding their rights to an asses (zoning increase) in exchange for rail service. The company turns around and immediately sells what the government gave them for cash.
That’s my problem with this. All of these people are pretending or directly saying that “Brightline never received subsidies”. That is complete nonsense! Brightline is exists exclusively because of subsidies. There is no Brightline without government intervention! It is a creature of the state if Florida justblike Tri-rail, or any other state rail service, or Amtrak.
BTW, no, Brightline never plans on making money from actual tickets. Look at their prospectus. They are only ever planning on making money off real estate. The entire rail operation is just a loss-leader to sell condos. Brightline says so themselves!
The issue is that it's great now, but over time it'll become profit-minded and services will reduce, and prices will increase. Especially if that route doesn't have good train competitors. It's what happened in the UK, now on a national level our train travel is generally a mix of private companies which are expensive and not always well integrated with each other or other public transportation (esp in terms of tickets and flexibility)
One more thing about Amtrak. It is publicly funded and the funding has to go through Congress. Which means if you want this new train to be blended into Amtrak, you'll want it to go through Congress now for its funding and it's survival. You haven't done your homework.
If you new how Amtrak started up, you would know that what he explained is exactly they way it was created. Amtrak took over private bankrupted passenger lines. It would definitely be possible.
The last private passenger rail service was taken over by Amtrak (Auto train from DC to Orlando)
DIARY OF A GRIEVER NAMED JOHN WEAV.. Absolutely.
@@banksrail Yes, but the companies that gave up their unprofitable passengers services gave them up willingly. They weren't forced to give it up.
@@banksrail Brightline had its first profitable month despite not being predicted to do so. Brightline’s parent company is a large investment group that develops the real estate surrounding the station. They are not a mass transit company; their target demographics are vacationers and businessmen. This is their niche business strategy and how they plan to turn a profit. Also, Orlando will not be the end of the line after they extend to Tampa as planned and will be a massive money maker because of every amusement park being there.
I honestly can't wait until BrightLine finally makes it to Orlando & connects to Miami! A lot of people travel between both cities on a weekly basis and the traffic especially on I-95 is horrendous at times.
True very true! Traffic between Orlando to Fort Lauderdale and Miami is terrible and some of the drivers might be talking on the phone, driving drunk or with illegal drugs in their system or weaving in and out, driving at high speed, this is all stressful driving for the normal driver plus it’s not relaxing it is sitting in a train and working on your iPad or watching a movie.
I'm hoping for Amtrak to expand its service to be more similar to brightline here in Michigan between Detroit and Chicago. My town of Ann Arbor is right on the line and its walking distance to downtown (or I can bike there in ~8 minutes). The trains sometimes get up to 110mph on the route from what I've found with expansions coming. But 3 round trips per day is just not going to cut it. Hourly (or half hourly) between two sizable midwest cities seems plausible and I think ridership would directly follow. Great to hear your experience was so great on Brightline, rail travel and public transit in general need better marketing! Its a great, relaxing, and usually affordable way to travel.... even if this one is privately owned.
I took that same train when I was in college, only I traveled on the Ann Arbor-Pontiac section of the route. While the train can do over 100 mph in the western part of Michigan due to the lower population density, it doesn't get anywhere near that speed once you get to Metro Detroit. Going from U of M to home was 55 minutes by car (and at worst, 1.5 hours during the holidays when the roads were clogged with everyone leaving campus), but the same trip by train is 2 hours - and that's if it's not delayed (the first time I ever took the train home it was delayed by an hour). Even in the worst, most frustrating rush hour traffic, driving is still quicker than taking the train.
Another issue with Amtrak is the accessibility of its coaches and platforms. None of the stations that I saw had elevated platforms, so you have to climb into the coaches from ground level. Not an issue for me since I'm fully mobile, and always traveled light when taking the train since it was for quick weekend trips home, but I always wondered how someone with limited mobility got in these things.
Hello and thanks for your post. I just happened to visit Chicago and Detroit recently and took the trip between the two cities with Amtrak's Woverine (I remember that the we served the station of Ann Arbor). As a European, I was appalled to see how infrequent, slow and unreliable the service was between two such key "neighboring" cities. I'm not into European-American "wars" and I honestly wish you improved passenger train services. Hoepfully, with the growig success of Brightline serving as a role model for your country as a whole, plus the development of Texas Central and the huge federal grant recently voted for passenger rail, things are set to improve. My best wishes!
Dude nice video but update the Orlando part. It’s NOT be going to Disney the second stop in Orlando will be Orlando convention Center/ Universal.
It’s basically going across the street from Disney now.
@@BENCOINTERNATIONAL nice to hear, where did you get this information because all over the news they are saying Disney doesn’t want it anymore.
I use Brightline from Fort Lauderdale to MIA twice a month. However when I come back I use tri-rail as one service per hour makes the entire trip that much longer and the uncertainty of when my plane lands makes buying the tickets in advance impossible. With added frequency I am sure BL could serve mire people. Also annoying you habe to ger there 15’ early or they will not let you board. Making it possible to buy tickets at the turnstiles with apple pay or the likes as you can do with Metrorail, would make it far more convenient and popular.
that's so strange! in the UK you can't get to the platform if there's a barrier if you're 3 minutes or less before departure but for most stations you need a ticket before boarding
The extension north from West Palm Beach to Cocoa is NOT being built on the right of way of I-95.
Quite true being built on the upgraded existing Florida East Coast RR right of way up to Cocoa THEN using mostly Hwy 528 route new build to Orlando.
@@kennethhanks6712 AND because of this you still have the same problem as in the West Palm Miami leg: frequent grade crossings which limit the speed (and increase probability of incidents.) AFTER the track turns to the east west leg does the rail become 'high speed' due to no grade crossings and the track completely fenced and or elevated. The north south leg is classed as 'higher speed' no 'high speed' and these are legal terms with regard to speeds possible for safety reasons.
Agree the removal of crossings needs to be reviewed for Brightline. For NC I think once the station is built in Uptown Charlotte that the use of the train should see an increase of usage. I moved outside of Charlotte and drive to the Light rail to get to work in Uptown but would rather get on a train in my town and ride it directly into Charlotte.
I'm in the NYC area and would consider taking the Carolinian down there when the new station is built, but the only thing more frustrating than the placement of the current Charlotte station is the reliability of basically any Amtrak train that runs south of Washington.
@@cco53587 the difference in NC is that the state owns the tracks vs a railroad company. It was double tracked and a lot of the crossing were eliminated or grade separated under Obama administration. While Amtrak doesn’t own them it is the next best situation they can be in.
@@cco53587 I took the Carolinian from Philly earlier this year. Since you will be on the train the whole day anyway, delays really shouldn't be too much of a bother. Things will only get better as improvements in Virginia come on line.
Wouldn't it be nice to not have to own a car
Since taking a train on opening day in 2018, when Brightline first ran trains only from/to Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach, I have taken about 20 trips. All have been excellent as this video describes. In February 2020 we took Brightline roundtrip from Fort Lauderdale to Miami for a cruise. Our reasonably priced tickets were for: parking, the train trip, and transportation to/from the ship terminal. It even included free checked bags and allowed us to spend time in Miami following the cruise without our bags. AND, the total cost was cheaper than either car service both ways or parking a car at the ship terminal. When guests visit I insist we take Brightlne somewhere. I look forward to service to Orlando.
I wish instead of just going towards Tampa which is another sprawling city they also went towards Atlanta who at least has a decent MARTA network.
Could be in the future, who knows
I'm sorry I LOL'd at the idea that Amtrak will take over brightlines infrastructure. Considering all the money the money that has been invested into building the infrastructure plus brightlines ambitions to be a nationwide rail alternative to Amtrak it's simply not happening and I pray that it never comes close to happening. There needs to be more competition when it comes to rail services instead having one service monopolizing the entire country.
Especially when the service is at the mercy of whichever politicians are in office (Republicans would probably defund it!)
@@edwardmiessner6502 What are you even talking about? My comment is simply stating that Amtrak acquiring brightline is a comical idea and furthermore having 2 separate competing services is an overall net win for consumers.
Yeah opening up the market for competition is what's happening in Europe, and it's booming 💹
@@OBSMProductions meanwhile in the UK, privatisation has wrecked our railways
Also, brightline owns some of the land next to the stations, which, based on the limited knowledge I have about Hong Kong metro stations, is a similar idea where the trains operate at loss, but the stations as destinations make the profits
Yep. Brightline is subsidized via land deals just like the rail system in Hong Kong and in Japan. But they also get direct cash subsidies.
It's also kind of similar to London's Metropolitan Line (which used to be their own company, who bought extra land around their stations and then developed it)
Brightline is perfect for Florida. Florida Man does so many things in one day and in order to get Florida Man wherever they need to go, they need a fast train. And thus Brightline helps them stay focused rather than sitting in traffic
Also, the Orlando station won't be at Disney. The plan is to build one by Universal Orlando and I-Drive as those places pushed for it more. People were hoping it'd be at Disney as an alternative for the Magical Express from the airport which Disney eliminated as a perk for staying on-property. In Paris, you can go to Disneyland Paris directly from CDG on TGV in just ten minutes. Eurostar even provides a service from London-St. Pancras.
It's a real shame Disney backed out. Disney under Chapek ("Cheapek" to some) has been cutting a lot of the benefits to staying on their property and frustrating guests more with all the additional fees. I-Drive may not have the Disney brand rec but at least they're building up while Disney makes cuts and changes.
all because they didnt want universal to have a station
I didn’t buy a Disney annual pass like I used to do since I’m a Florida resident because some the benefits were eliminated and it cost more and so I’m going to other places in Orlando instead such as discovery cove and Universal for the first time!, and when the train starts then I’m gonna ride freight line for the first time from Orlando to Fort Lauderdale!!!!
Correction, I meant to write freight line not freight line. Ha ha ha
Brightline
Good video and very astute observations. Liked your comments on the view held by many when it comes to funding for Amtrak. No one complains about roads not turning a profit, but they want rail to do so. However, roads are "public" while much of the actual rail is "private" (owned by freight companies) - that may need to change for public rail travel to succeed.
It will be nice when Brightline not only goes to Tampa, but Jacksonville as well.
I live in Charlotte. My mom visits from Greensboro to Charlotte on Amtrak and loves it. She's never been out of the country though so doesn't have anything to compare it to. I would love to see high speed rail in this area.
We park and ride our light rail here to go downtown because parking fees downtown are painful.
Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but people need to understand that the phase one corridor has been around since the 1890s, so you can see why there are so many grade crossings. Furthermore, since the FEC runs frequently, (I am assuming based on the amount of trains I see, which seems rather frequent than compared to Class Is), grade separating the route would have to also allow the FEC to access their yards and customers. Finally, I counted the total grade crossings between Miami and WPB, and the total I found was 174 level crossings, that's an average of about 2.6 crossings per mile.
Good point, and to expand on that, the section under construction from WPB up to Cocoa is basically double-tracking the existing Florida East Coast tracks. The section west of Cocoa is on a new right-of-way and is entirely grade separated to the Orlando station. The future extension to Universal, Disney (maybe), and Tampa will also be grade-separated.
USA prefers and glorifies individualism over social benefit, so USA will never have decent public services (public transportation, healthcare...) like Europe has.
But Americans also love American Exceptionalism especially in its military prowess and in its law and order. Which means despite not having the decent public and social services Europe has we'll pay just as much in taxes, except for large corporations and the rich.
This is true. It's why we spend trillions in tax dollars on car infrastructure.
Would be pretty cool if we had a Brightline style service in Texas. San Antonio to Waco is 4 metro areas lined up next to each other with a combined population a little less than Greater Miami.
used to live in Texas along time ago and I noticed that San Antonio has really grown in population so it would be nice if they had a reliable train service from San Antonio to Austin at least. It could make one stop in New Braunfels on the way. There could be a lot of tourists and students that would need to ride it
West palm beach to Coco can be 110mph, its still on the FEC ROW. from coco to Orlando airport it can be 125mph given its fully grade separated new line.
grade separating this freight line will be nearly impossible, you can't viaduct the whole thing and given how close it is to most roads they can tunnel under or bridge over.
electrification is being avoided because because they don't view it as needed yet and that would mean getting the FEC onboard. (which arguable would be a good federal test and showcase of what electrification can do for freight ops.)
it will be interesting to see how Brightline West ends up being combined with California's push to connect almost all the state by hourly or better rail or bus. We've got an updated statewide rail plan due out this year.
NC is at least finally getting some new cars and locos. 26 cars and 6 locos isn't too bad. Hopefully as Amtrak California orders a new fleet you can take some of our 130 California and surfliner cars rebuild them.
A great Video and I'm happy that you raise these concerns, as most are just amazed by the whistle and bells for what need to be a basic service. A train should look good, be comfortable and get you to your destination on time - the rest, like a lounge and a free bar is not important if you provide the basic. A train station is not an airport. I can get on the fast train in my city 2 minutes before it's departure and I don't seat around in the station waiting for it.
I just have a few corrections.
1. An 18 month closure is not "a brief pause"
2. Japan is unique and their system works well for them. It was privatized but "private" in Japan is not the same as in other places and each company has a monopoly in a specific area (for the most parts, there are some correlations and lines that cross areas of different operators but that is the general idea and different operators of different lines, like intercity and city lines and different transport means).
As for The EU, all EU members had to separate the rail infrastructure from the rail train operation so the infrastructure (rail and stations) is owned and operated by a state that needs to allow open access for both the national operator (like DB in Germany, SNCF in France or RENFE in Spain) and new privately owned operators (many are operated by other countries national operators, but not all). Italy was one of the first adopters (in Sweden it exists for much longer, even before the EU decision) but this now works all over. In Spain OUIGO (low cost brand of the French SNCF) and AVLO (the new low cost brand of the national Spanish operator RENFE) compete on a few lines and in November they will be joined by IRYO (owned by Trenitalia, Italy's national opertaor, and Air Nostrum, a Spanish airline working that operates the regional flights for IBERIA). In France Italo, the private competitor of Trenitalia in Italy, operates a line from Paris to Milan, FlixTrain operates trains in Germany and Sweden and more. This is possible only when the network itself is owned by the government.
3. For a good intercity train service you must have a good local public transport service.
You've covered excellent points that highlight the fact that North America will never catch up with Europe. The USA, in particular, fell out of love with passenger trains in the 1950s. While Brightline is a great idea, I wish it success for as long as it is able to operate.
@@Eurobazz
"You've covered excellent points that highlight the fact that North America will never catch up with Europe. "
Nothing to catch up with, population density of Italy is 201 people per square km, in the USA ours is 37.
HSR won't be justified here for a long time. We use aircraft instead, in North America and Australia.
"The USA, in particular, fell out of love with passenger trains in the 1950s"
Well yes, because cars were widely available, thus rending shorter distance trains obsolete outside of rush hour, and airline flight was becoming widely available, thus rendering high speed trains obsolete (at our typical intercity distances).
". I can get on the fast train in my city 2 minutes before it's departure and I don't seat around in the station waiting for it."
Are you talking about HSR? If you go to TripAdvisor most people say you should get to the HSR station 30 minutes ahead of departure.
Amtrak in the USA also suggests 30 minutes ahead.
Airlines start boarding 30 minutes before takeoff.
The local train between San Francisco and San Jose, which is not "high speed" since it's only 50 miles, sure I get on there two minutes before departure. Totally different situation.
" An 18 month closure is not "a brief pause""
Covid, ever heard of it? The public transit buses here in Silicon Valley were restricted to 9 people per bus at one point. Public transit in the USA has still not recovered its previous ridership. It's getting closer but not quite there. A lot of people only have to come in the office three days a week.
"For a good intercity train service you must have a good local public transport service."
And also high enough population density to justify it (EU and Japan have it, USA, Canada and Australia do not) and the distance between cities can't be too far apart.
Do you realize how much full grade separation would cost? My prediction is certain very busy at grade crossings would get separation, but forget about the full line . And your comment about speed is arbitrary, the locomotive is capable of I think 120 mph more or less, but how can it run faster will all those grade crossings you mention. Why step you criticizing it for not being public transit when it's a private company. Also you conveniently fail to mention Brighline is a subsidiary of Florida East Coast Industries which owns the the tracks this train runs on , as it was always a private railway dating back to when it was the Florida East Coast Railway . Why would they allow now a competing train service to use its tracks, ie Amtrak , Trirail etc.
FEC, the freight company, was sold to Grupo Mexico a few years back, and is no longer under FECI. The two have maintained a good relationship though. FEC has also warmed up to other passenger rail in general in recent times, allowing Tri Rail to set up Coastal Link, and a decade ago were open to hosting Amtrak from Jax to Miami on a proposed "Flagler Line".
@@sanchorim8014 thanks for the correction
We used to have this. Pennsylvania Railroad. New York Central. The Daylight service in California from the old Southern Pacific Railroad. The list goes on.
American government screwed over the Railroads in the 1960s, then the oil crisis of 1972 led to a Government merger in Conrail which ultimately failed. Tax breaks were given to airlines and roads heavily subsidized, to where passenger rail all but dried up. People Demanded SOME type of service, which is Amtrak, but it needs major upgrades on the long haul routes. The high speed corridor in the Northeast is good but it's bottlenecked in New York City. A point of major delays.
We HAD an all electric train system. We used to actually be efficient, with railroad towns, and places in walking distance from stations. But it all got tore up. Imo it was for no good reason. But sure lets DRIVE everywhere. Man... I would love to be able to just hop on a train, play games on my phone, and then arrive at work. Would be so nice
Conrail was a financial success. Granted, this was because they sold off unprofitable lines, which the private companies wanted to do before, but weren't allowed to because.... Wait for it.... The government.
@@sanchorim8014 Let's be honest here. They ran a profit because they paid themselves. Sure a good chunk was selling off stuff. I'm still upset about track 3 from Altoona to Johnstown. But selling stuff its a short term gain. look where it put us now. I dont buy that crap when Norfolk Southern can let, Saluda Grade for example, ait dormat for decades. Conrail had other deals going man
*insert imagine of an old train here*
REMEMBER WHAT THEY TOOK FROM US
Great video! I’m very happy you’re still active on this platform and you deserve so many more views than you get. This is a great insight on Brightline and if I have to go to Florida then I would be excited to ride it.
You're absolutely right. We're more focused on subsidizing highways whereas other developed countries have shown high speed train travel has proved more useful and pays more dividends in terms of the total time traveling from point A to point B. America better get its head out its ass. We're being left behind. Quickly.
Brightline sounds like a model for how California HSR should operate once open
Absolutely not. California HSR is actually going to be a lot better than bright line, problem is private contractors and the corruption that comes with them ruin every large scale project, so it's gonna take forever to get there.
@@macgobhann8712 CHSR is never getting done. Funny enough, government officials in CA need to be investigated for fraud. 105 BILLION DOLLARS, and not 1 inch of track.
@@macgobhann8712 a lot better in year of our lord 2453 when its finished
@@macgobhann8712 it cant be better, if it doesnt get build. Meanwhile brightline is busy hiring 11.000 construction workers to start construction of brightline west. This route will go from las vegas to rancho cucamonga, and is expected to be operational before the 2028. i am from europe and i have a good laugh at americans who dont undersstand a thing about rail in genera, let alone high speed rail. Brightline is doing things right and make the trains actually operational. Do you know that there where a lot of compromises in florida in terms of speed, i will give you an example : FEC and GRADE CROSSINGS. 1st FEC.. brightline in florida shares tracks with FEC meaning that it needs to compromise on FREQUENCY. 2nd GRADE CROSSINGS : because of the grade crossings the FRA has set a limited speed wich is another compromise. THIS is the whole reason why it is very dissapointing for americans. But people like you can not even see the positives about this. People DO take the train, wich means less congestion on the road wich is one of brightlines goals wich they slowly achieve, california because of brightline trains running makes 2 billion in extra yearly revenue. another fact : WHEN and IF CAHSR gets build and OPERATIONAL brightline west is going to use these tracks aswell to serve parts of california. Its people like you who dont understand how complicated it is to build ANYTHING in the USA. if one company is doing things right, its brightline. even under harsh USA laws and regulations. I come from the netherlands, we in our country recently have made a normal line between utrecht and amsterdam, quess how long it took from concept to completion ?.. within a year. it is now operational and running flawlessly. Your system is highly corrupt and innefective. at least brightline makes things work!.. Cant say that much from CAHSR. sorry to burst your bubble.
Amtrak really should put a brightline-style model to work in the Hiawatha corridor in Illinois and Wisconsin. Seeing as it's only 86 miles currently between Milwaukee and Chicago, I think frequency would totally take this service to the next level.
I live in Austria 🇦🇹 we drive to work by train. It is great for Florida to have Brightline.
A decent amount of Japan’s trains are privatized and they are absolutely spectacular. The government should’ve never gotten the majority control of railway/train services, the government can’t run anything right.
Brightline is doing a fantastic job helping eliminate car use on Florida's congested roads.
Unfortunately, this is achieved by Floridians choosing Brightline as their lead autodarwination option.
While it's an advance in US terms, compared with Europe and South-East Asia it's decades behind, for the following reasons: Brightline shares some track with freight trains; Brightline tracks have level crossings; Brightline uses diesel locomotives; Brightline's highest speed will be only 125mph.
Yes, yes, yes!!!
I read an article somewhere that said that Brightline plans on running 150 mph trains on the Tampa to Orlando stretch whenever it opens. It might not be Europe or Japan level speeds, but it's a start.
The one thing I want from Brightline is electrification, providing it grows in demand and ridership. Being from NJ, we're blessed with ~30 minute interval trains on the NEC, as well as reliable Amtrak service that's fast and fully electrically powered. Though the stations make Indian stations look spotless, the actual service is still pretty good. I hope Brightline does keep improving and hopefully, when Amtrak improves it's service and reach, it'll be encompassed into a new national rail network.
The biggest problem Brightline will face is revenue. They're putting a lot of money into expansion, but they're definitely not filling trains with riders. Sure, some people ride it, but it's not financed through anything other than investment and sales. If those can't cover costs, it will degrade until it shuts down.
I feel like the Orlando expansion will make up the money. Especially if it will be cheaper, faster, and more convenient than cars, more people will most likely choose Brightline than driving cars; especially for tourists.
Give it time. Exhausting gridlock, sky-high gas prices, choked, inconvenient airports and peaceful, stress-free travel can be big motivators.
An then, hopefully nationalization?
A very real concern, and while I don't have any insider information what I've heard as a local is that their long term goal is to pursue a mixed revenue stream like Japanese rail companies - basically using real estate and rail developments to increase the profit of both. If they'll pull it off is the real question though, and it seems like a toss up still at this point.
@@mercurialjove460 Yeah that'll suck....
To each his/her own opinion. But it seems to be working so far, and looks promising with that extension to Orlando. This is what they should have done in Texas instead of that bullet train project, which seems pretty dead and buried nowadays.
They won the legal battle for use of eminent domain. Also settling for what Brightline settled for doesn’t change the face of American High Speed Rail. This is basically just a train.
@@banksrail Don't exactly get your point. Bullet trains like Texas Central's proposal are...well trains too. And that hyperloop stuff was never meant to exist either.
@@that90skid72 This is conventional train that already exist in America. What separates it from a random commuter railroad. Heck, there are commuter railroads that run faster than these trains. What Texas Central and CAHSR are doing is actually progressing America into the 21st century.
@@banksrail Yeah but America commuter and intercity network is very poor. It better that America strengthens conventional rail network and have normal rail.
Because no country except China and maybe Japan that has HSR focused rail network.
@@natenae8635 Uderstandable. But, that puts projects like Texas Central in a separate league than Brightline. They aren’t comparable. That’s why I compare it to an average commuter train.
You can take tri-rail from Fort Lauderdale to West Palm
Agree with just about everything except for wanting Amtrak to take it over. That's about the worst possible scenario. Maybe Amtrak can learn from Brightline and copy their business model - perhaps first along the Piedmont route.
Amtrak already does copy their business model, it's run like a privately owned company, and that's one of the biggest reasons why it's failing.
@@macgobhann8712 No, they don't. They know they will stay operational as long as there is a willing Congress who continously throws money into their bottomless pit. If they were like a real business, they would cut useless employees and be incentivied to try to turn a profit.
As both a Miami and Raleigh resident, I'm digging this content! Keep it up. You're doing a great job and you deserve more subs!
Both south Florida and Orlando are filled with European tourists, and I am guessing that linking the two areas is going to be a huge win for both markets since international tourists will fly into one and are more likely to explore by rail.
That’s true that southern Florida and Orlando are popular with European and also British tourists especially in the winter when they come to the sunshine. I see them in the airport
As a European, I can confirm your analysis: I'd certainly take the train between Orlando and South Florida.
As someone who's been on European trains and brightline, coach in both is great, cleaner on brightline
We already saw a taste of what problems the for-profit/private part might cause during COVID when they completely shut down for a year while most of the public options were reduced, but not completely eliminated.
It was closed for a year and a half, no public transport service should be allowed to do such a thing.
@@AL5520 Canada also practically shut down their passenger rail service during covid
hmm here in Silicon Valley, the buses were effectively shut down...you could only have 9 people on a bus at one point. And VTA isn't anywhere close to regaining all the money it lost during the shutdown. Nor have they recovered the ridership.
were the private trans companies forced to closed while public was allow to run?
@@drivver4470
"were the private trans companies forced to closed while public was allow to run?"
well, I can't speak for the Brightline service in Florida, but I can tell that the public ones here in the San Francisco Bay Area never completely closed down BUT at one point they were only letting 9 people on the bus at a time. For those of us who still had to go to work (I was working in a medical device warehouse), it was really frustrating. The transit ridership still has not returned from the old days but it's getting a lot closer.
I wish they could have a station in St. Augustine
You're comparing roads and utilities to passanger trains is not a great ideal because the government doesn't operate your car they simply build the road. Also your argument in general sounds very socialist. You're essentially saying that even though the government has failed to produce good rail service in the US the best passanger train that is privately owned would be better if the government took it over? European style rails comes at massive expense to the taxpayers. And as California has proven even when you have 40% tax rate you still can't succeed in making good high speed rail in the US government.
I would love to see a Houston to New Orleans line with stops in Beaumont, Lake Charles, Lafayette and Baton Rouge. A further extension to Pensacola with stops in Gulfport and Mobile would be excellent and at the end link up with a Brightline extension northwest from Orlando.
I'm in Fayetteville NC. There were some pamphlets in the Amtrak station talking about implementing regional state rail. This was 2007. Like regional rail from Wilmington to Fayetteville to Charlotte to Asheville. It would've open the state to a large amount of people who would prefer rail if it was available.
The reason why North Carolina is a good candidate for this plan, is because of how populations are distributed throughout the state.
IMO regional rail are more viable in the former 13 colonies than the midwest due to the dense development/ expansion. even amtrak's own best corridor are in that "segment" where there's still more people density compare to the midwest.
i think if you overlay the old rail corridors and their account books, it could say the same story.
@@PrograError Did I mentioned anything about the Midwest in my comment? Anyway, it only has been very recently that THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA seen growth. And it was not by accident, but a plan that was concocted by regional planners of that time.
By the way, CHICAGO; the state of Illinois has the largest amount of rail going through it. And it happens to be the Midwest region. So please save it!😡
This was a really well made video, and I hope you get the attention you deserve for it!
OK thoughts, comparing private operations in the UK is very much a oranges and apples comparison. UK rail operators were having to pay a large franchise fee just to get off the ground, then more to the rail operator, and then try to make a profit. Brightline may have to maintain the rails themselves, but well, they get don't pay many of the other fees.
Secondly, you want to take a currently well operated private system and then merge it back to the public one? Unfortunately almost always when that happens it's the case of the better service gets dragged down t othe standard fo the rest of the system. Not vice versa.
Anyway the big issue I understand from the outside looking in is the one thing Europe has recently started to get right and honestly it's just not going to happen there in the US.
The KEY issue is having 'neutral' rail ownership. That is the companies who own the rails are independent of everyone running trains on them. In the US that would involve some form of nationalization/forces divestment of the rails from their current owners. (Who are I believe almost all cargo rail companies) Only then will passenger rail get half a chance at competing.
Had not Amtrak been chronically underfunded it may well have already been servicing key sectors with high quality, high frequency, fast passenger trains. I'm sure other potential private operators are watching Brightline very closely. If Brightline is a success other operators are sure to copy it elsewhere. If Amtrak don't, or are not allowed to get in on servicing the profitable sectors with a premium service, they will be left with the sectors that the private operators won't touch
The US needs to place the ownership and maintenance of the permanent way in the hands of a public/private company away from the likes of BNSF, CSX etc. This will allow for track upgrades after which Amtrak can operate at faster speeds and not be affected by freight trains. It will be a more level playing field. Is this likely to happen, of course not.
Amtrak has had plenty of funding, they wasted it.
@@tonyburzio4107 No they don't. Their funding is miniscule compared to how much we spend on air and car travel.
@@Eurobazz That is theft of billions of dollars worth of private infrastructure. If they did, they better compensate the companies by buying it all and the land it is on at current market price. I will support forcing the companies to cooperate with Amtrak and not being actively hostile towards passenger rail (Looking at you CSX). Also in Europe, they have too many trucks on the road and not as much freight rail. If you make the rail mostly passenger, then you have lots more traffic and pollution than reduced due to trucks and lots of freight moved to the road.
I would like to see the Piedmont train extended down to Wilmington. That can help unlock more potential for tourist coming to the beach. We just finished a new bus terminal near the new proposed station sight to get people too and from the station
This analysis is wonderful. The trains and stations look amazing. Great video!
I wonder, does it provide disabled access, say for a person in a wheelchair or mobility vehicle ?
Yes. The accessibility is insanely good. Full level boarding with dedicated seats for people in wheelchairs. Even the bathrooms are fully wheelchair accessible
@@BENCOINTERNATIONAL Many thanks for your update. That is really good news.
@@magicalucem3034 they also have elevators instead of just escalators and stairs. I’ve been in one of the stations.
Highly interesting report about a highly interesting service. That said, what's the point of beating cars in terms of speed between Miami and West Palm Beach if you have to arrive 1/2 hour or more ahead of departure because of stupid airline-style stuff like check-in, security checks, lounges, boarding etc.? Seen from Europe, Broghtline looks very promising for the future of passenger rail travel in the USA (at least in Florida) but, if they want it to be competitive against car travel and to be a real train service, they'll need to drop the airline-style fuss. Let people who really want to enjoy a lounge, snack, drink, enjoy it if they want but please don't impose the fuss of airports on all rail travelers. Other than that, thumbs up for this very bright line!
Completely disagree. Brightline is the best case scenario because you get the best rail product on the map and tax payers do not have to pay to support it. Public transport on rail should only exist where private attempts have failed. The private sector will do its job better than a government run company, that’s a reality. If the private business attempt proves impossible, then public should take over, but trying to challenge a private org with a public org destroys future opportunities for investment into businesses because no one will want to go toe to toe with a business that has no interest in making money and an unlimited budget. If Brightline proves to be a wild success, you will see top of the line rail transport in Florida, Vegas, and maybe even in Texas. Amtrak isn’t going to do any of that in our lifetime. This is a fantastic opportunity for the US to restart its private rail sector and god forbid we get some innovation. Call me when Sunrail or Amtrak innovates anything at all.
I live in Massachusetts and our MBTA Commuter Rail service, while decently accomplishing its main purpose of public transport, leaves lot to be desired. Old carriages from the 70s, underfunded services, and slow travel times in relation to the importance of a city like Boston. It would be great to even have hand-me-downs from Amtrak once they retire their current diesel engines that run in New England.
Your title on the video says "privatized". Private and Privatized are two different things. It was always private as it did not replace anything public that needed to be contracted out or "privatized".
Brightline has free transfers to / from the major airports and cruise terminals.
As far as I’m aware, you only need the 2 hour advanced reservation if you specifically want the Tesla ride.
I think Brightline's business model is wrong. The company shouldn't be providing free taxis and airport style waiting rooms. Remove these frills and increase the service to half-hourly.
@@Eurobazz maybe if they will increase the service to every 30 minutes when the Orlando portion starts and they have more riders.
You, and it's not your fault. Alot of rail fans do this when taking a look on American rail lines. Back before the government got involved and we had private lines everywhere. The US had the best in the world. But when the Federal government got involved it all went to crap.
You forget that the reason government got involved was because the private lines were failing.....
@@macgobhann8712 Yeah, because they took their money
North American rail will never be fully grade separated as they run on freight tracks.
The reason that the private operators are doing this is *because* the government is too stingy and cheap or the government-run systems are too incompetent to do so on their own.
What’s the hatred for private compared to the deplorable service of Amwreck. Amwreck would destroy Brightlines charm. Long distance they are needed not intercity. You complain about lack of service where there could be ridership try growing up on Long Island with the worst train service out east.
Sorry, did someone say they wished Amtrak would take it over? 😐
ive seen people being somewhat negative towards the fact that this is a privately run system
but its ultimately a good thing that the private market is getting involved
the private market is one of the reasons why we had soo much rail in the US
government does a horrible job at managing things and should be the least involved when possible
Level crossings should be eliminated, pronto.
Brightline is absolutely amazing, I use it fairly frequently between WPB and MIA, and I can’t wait for Orlando!
While it's a nice idea of having a train being treated as public transportation, keep this in mind it has to be supported by fees and taxes from the public who uses it. Much like the road maintenance is supported by taxes and fees, public transportation such as train has to be treated as such. You want private? Private will charge you. Either way you get gouged. Nothing is free, nothing.
The difference between public and private is the while the user is the one that, theoretically, fully pays for the service when it's private so only those who can pay for it can use it a public service is usually paid by a regressive tax, so those who have more pay more than those who have less and it is available for all who needs it.
In a basic service like transport when people need it to make a living it must be available to all.
That said many private services are actually financed by both their users and the taxpayer as they get "intensives", tax reductions, they pay unlivable wages, so the public finance aid for those workers who cannot afford a house, food, education, health and have a hard time paying for a car they need to get this low paying job.
Road maintenance costs a lot of money but it also helps the economy to function and grow but it is a very limited and the least efficient way for large amounts of people to travel. An investment in public transport to provide local and intercity transport with a good, reliable and affordable service will creepiness the ability of people to find work, improve the movement of people and increase the economic growth far more than what it will cost to build and maintain.
I know many Americans don't like to do it but look at other countries - they have far better lives than you. They live longer, healthier, with more time to be with their families and relax and they have better education than you. Yes, they pay more taxes but when you calculate the cost and quality of the services they get for those higher taxes vs what you privately pay for a far worst level of similar service you end up paying much more.
Not only that but Japan's rail companies own real estate around stations and end up turning a profit anyway from renting, so having transport isn't just about the ticket price.
We really need this in the Midwest. Many of us travel more than thirty miles to work and cost and traffic can only improve from here.
Yup, I drive 42 miles to work. Not far from Omaha. It's crazy.
Its unsustainable in most of the US.The density isn't there to support good transit. If your city is 4 blocks of office buildings surrounded by single family homes with quarter acre yards for miles the only way to fix it is to upzone and rebuild from the middle out - in which case you'd want to move closer to your job anyway.
@@LrdZanny
well, the type of housing is irrelevant. We just don't have the population to have the same population density as Europe.
Our population density in the USA is 37 per square km.
In Italy it's 201 per square km.
Europe has 700 million people in the same space that we only have 300 million.
So until the 1000 years have passed that Europe had to grow their population....HSR is not justified.
What you can justify is "higher speed rail", average 90 mph as opposed to the typical 35 mph. Basically Higher Speed Rail means make any upgrades you can short of buying more private land to create another "right of way". Improve signaling, put better barriers for grade crossings or eliminate the crossings, put an extra railroad track in there at specific places so you can go around freight trains, etc.
@@neutrino78x when you state the population density United States is 37 per square KM that does not give the whole picture
such as are you figuring the countryside in your computation. The United States has many big cities with high density they’ve grown rapidly specially Florida many people moved there from New York City, Boston and many other cities.
@@enjoyslearningandtravel7957
"The United States has many big cities with high density they’ve grown rapidly specially Florida many people moved there from New York City, Boston and many other cities."
We sure do, and all those cities have public transit. We have public transit connect San Jose, San Francisco and Oakland too, two major train systems (Caltrain and BART). I am by no means against it.
But when you say "replace aviation with trains" that has to include going from one dense area to another, ok. And in the USA they're VERY far apart. Manchester is less than 200 miles from London, but New York is NOT less than 200 miles from Chicago. It's 800 miles, and that would take HSR at least four hours and be very expensive to construct, and therefore a waste of money because a jet can fly it half the time.
Should we improve the speed of existing public transit trains between those areas? Absolutely. Just don't spend 100 billion on it, that's not justified when the private sector has it covered and does a MUCH better job.
HSR struggles to find an application here in the USA and also Canada and Australia. In the dense areas, you don't need it because the cities are close together and even a 90 or 100 mph train would be fine, and going from one dense area to another, it's not useful because the distance is too great.
The way we do it is fine....public transit for cities within a dense area like The Bay Area or the NEC, aviation for travel between those areas.
A few thoughts:
First 79mph is not fast. Where I live (Southern England), the slow trains run at 100mph, and the fast ones run at 140mph.
Hourly is not frequent. At peak times, we have 12 fast trains, 4 semi-fast trains (110mph) and 4 slow trains per hour. Off-peak, it is 6 fast, 2 semi-fast and 2 slow.
A lot of people say that the USA can't have trains because the country is too big for them to make sense. That is probably true, but Florida isn't too big to have trains, Texas isn't too big to have trains, California isn't too big to have trains. Trains need to be planned on a more regional level, either individual states, or a few neighbouring states, and the Federal Government should just be setting national standards for things like track and loading gauge, power supplies, signalling standards and so on, so that you can have cross-border rail trips between the different regions.
The best country in the world for rail is Japan, and it has lots of competing private rail companies. The difference between Japan Rail and the failed British model is that each company has its own stations and tracks, and there is actual competition on individual routes. For example if you are in Osaka, and you want to go to Kyoto, you can go to the Japan Rail station and get a train there, or you can go next door to the Hankyu Railway station for an alternative train service. The distance is about 55km (35 miles), Hankyu run trains about every 3 minutes, ticket price is ¥410 ($3). Japan Rail is also about every 3 minutes, ticket price ¥570 ($4), trains are a bit faster than Hankyu's.
Actually, MORE private transit should be allowed (the government gets in the way), exactly like it was during the Victorian Era when those now government owned lines were built. The government inherited what private business built and they have done a horrible job maintaining and expanding the systems. Bring back PRIVATE COMPETITION!!!
They gotta expand to north fl fr we struggling up here 😭
You are quite right to mention Japan and Italy as two countries where private operator harmoniously compete with the national ones. In Europe, you also have the Czech Republic as a great and successful example of this (with Leo Express and RegioJet), plus Austria (with RegioJet and Westbahn), just to mention the two most striking examples. In addition, Italy's State operator Treintalia is weirdly enough profiling itself as a "private competitor", challenging RENFE and SNCF in Spain and Italy on their own turf, and it may expand to more countries. Last but not least, a private operator of night/sleeper trains is being born in Belgium and the Netherlands: it's called European Sleepers.
Rail in the US, even though its inefficient, and never even goes to where you want it to. Is still so fun to travel on.
There's so many upsides to it. As someone in the Denver Metro, I've taken the Commuter Rail system to Denver a couple times. And it's just such a nice experience. It's faster (They go from like 55-80mph). And you get to see scenery while not dealing with traffic.
It's also better for the environment, because they use electric lines.
Such a shame that the US, even when we try to build highspeed rail *cough cough California*, we are not able to due to lack of funding and unsupportive politicians saying it's a waste of money and taxpayer dollars. Then we go spend billions on Automotive infrastructure.
1/ The electric trains are a better investment then dirty, toxic Air pollution from fossil fuel oil, coal and natural gas. Plus high speed real is better then highways. Rail line and highways both require $$. Ask yourself which delivery better ROI for the customer and which delivers long term ROI $$ for business that get the contract to upkeep the highways. ......The suckers in Florida state lawmakers and business owners of Brightline. Plus the state lawmakers and company sold of the community and lobby to not build none share roadways. This mean its not High Speed, that may are spreading lies in marketing it as....In South Florida the train goes though several high traffic areas. That requires the street car traffic to stop and permit the train to past. Because the suckers did not build rail with overpasses. Don't permit this to occur in your community. Lock them up and then send them to North Korea in a hard labor prison. Just saying how they SUCK towards those they serve the share holders not the customers and tax payers.
I wonder if there are any lessons Amtrak can take from Bright Line and use in their current and future routes? As far as private vs. public, I know what you mean, but I think most local, regional and national rail lines started out as private entities, so maybe that’s just the way the US rolls. The one good thing about Bright Line being high end is that it may help raise the reputation of intercity train travel in the US.
Brightline is a lot more subsidized than Amtrak. That’s basically the entire difference. Amtrak was at breakeven before the pandemic. And this despite the fact that Amtrak is required by Congress to run extremely unprofitable long distance trains. The only reason they’re not bankrupt yet is because the Northeastern Corridor and their intercity lives are very profitable.
Brightline gets direct cash subsidies, real estate deals that they sell for cash, and even their bonds are subsidized by the government. Brightline basically sells condo to pay for a loss-leader train that they use to sell more condos.
We could implement this same system for Amtrak tomorrow and subsidize it to the same level, but the Republicans won’t allow for that to happen.
Privately owned Rail or any business don't have that get out of the failing hole like taxpayer owned systems like Amtrak or MTA. The risk for failure is excessively high. So those Privately own rail will go above and beyond to succeed and cater to customers. Taxpayer funded systems never have to worry about failure unless the policy says so. However since they depend on tax dollars and can get out of the legal trouble since who's gonna check the government? So there's no incentive to really cater the customer base. I'm born in and lived in New York City for many years and the MTA transit is inexcusably the most disappointing, disgusting, and dangerous in the country possibly the world for a first world country. Throwing money into a terrible system doesn't solve anything. Also to add the excessively Bureaucratic nightmare that the transit systems face also holds it back as well.
I would argue that profitability shouldn't be downplayed, and that the idea of allowing for perpetual money loss is the biggest flaw with the idea of a government-run system. Profitability is also a good measurement of operational efficiency and the overall value of a service; an unprofitable service may either be wasteful and inefficient, or simply not in demand.
Allowing a state-run system to continually lose money is a horrible idea, especially if nobody is even using it. It takes money away from the budget that could be used better, and only provides a benefit to a handful of people.
This is a reminder how a shame
It is that roads and airlines are
put on a pedestal far above
Public transit, bus, train etc
I think Brightline is a great thing along with similar rail
Alternatively in spite of its issues
More DC WMATA Metro-Rail
type rail systems scattered throughout the US / North America
Would be super amazing as well
If you don't know about the failure of the Acela design, then you don't understand anything about American passenger rail.
You had me at Lavazza Coffee.
I don't understand the state-worship and desire for everything to be a government service in the urbanist community. I'd prefer to have as many things privately owned and operated as possible.
I suspect there would be much more (privately owned) public transit and better city design in general if not for the regulations imposed by the government and government subsidies for car-centric infrastructure. It seems to me that government has been the problem and more government is not the solution.
I wonder who lobbies/lobbied government to implement car oriented development and force cities to be designed around the automobile. Gee it couldn't be the massive privately owned automobile companies could it?
I really don't understand how you look at all the places in the world that have great transit oriented cities, great public transit, and great rail service and come away with "nah the fact that all of these places have heavy government intervention in transit development means nothing, in fact, we need more private intervention!".
@@macgobhann8712 I think your own argument works against you here. Maybe they did lobby for that, but it's still the government implementing it. My approach of getting the government out of things eliminates the effects of the lobbying. I stand by my view of less government intervention.
Yeah that is one thing I don't get about people who say Amtrak needs to make money they cannot make money along they have the long distance roots so the only way for them to make money is just to eliminate the long distance roots but that would not be good so honestly it shouldn't even matter
Since I've first heard of it, I knew Brightline would be good for the whole state of Florida. One of the main reasons why is because of "induced demand" if more people are off the highways and taking the train, traffic will improve. Let's hope Brightline continues to expand to Tampa and to the other cities in Florida.
one of the moticators is that Florida doesnt have an income tax for the average person (it does have a corperate income tax)
however there are massive amounts of toll stations on the interstate highways which is one of the primary ways the state gets funded
Additionally, since traffic is an exponential problem even just a minor shift of say 5% of highway cars to the train will result in a significantly improved traffic flow for the highway. (Assuming that latent demand of people already avoiding the congested highway doesn't immediately fill up the space made by the train, which just means the train needs enough capacity to soak up all the latent demand an then some to actually improve the highway's traffic issues)
I can’t wait until brightline gets to Orlando. I would love to do a weekend beach getaway to south Florida without the stress of driving or expense of flying.
have you seen the projected prices for the orlando miami trip? ya may as well fly!
I am glad it is there. I can fly into MCO and go to a cruise in Miami. I dont drive since I am disabled.
"Brief" Pause. yeah right
I took a commuter train from Amsterdam to Brussels while working in Europe. It was old and noisy and made so many stops. At the stations the loud speakers were set to max and you could not even have a mobile conversation. The stations did not have lounges so I would say this looks to be levels above what most routes in Europe are like.
You are comparing apples and oranges here. A commuter train is meant to make many stops and is not comparable to an inter-city train. Also there is so much train travel in Europe, these airport style lounges would be impractical
@@donnerwetter1905 Yes I know but Brighline is basically a commuter train. He makes it sound like al trains in Europe are superior and that is not true. I have also rode the Eurostar from London to Paris and back, it wasn’t anything special and no perks at all that I saw unless I missed them.
@@asquithmainlines699 Brightline is inter-city rail. They are also planning commuter rail, but it is not becoming a reality before 2024. Stations like these would be impractical with commuter rail, as commuter rail has much more stations and many more passengers. The German S-Bahn or the French RER is commuter rail. The ICE, TGV or Eurostar are inter-city trains. They are also high speed, which makes them superior to those Brightline trains, which are made by Siemens, which is a European company btw. You can search for Berlin central station on yt. That station is superior to any Brightline station.
@@donnerwetter1905 I have been to the Hard Rock Cafe in Berlin but we were driving. Have you rode the high speed trains in Japan? From what I have heard they set the standard. Defiantly on my bucket list. Canada has the Rocky Mountaineer that runs between Vancouver to Jasper and or Banff, it is a tourist train but one of the best. When I travel I prefer a One Ton Duramax and slide in Camper, home on wheels. Best part is when you see something interesting you can stop and check it out. Neither a train or plane offers that option.
@@asquithmainlines699 Japan has separated tracks for HSR and the other trains, which gives them an advantage. Here in Europe all the trains, inter-city, commuter and cargo are sharing the same tracks. That makes operation a much bigger challenge. With low passenger numbers and tourist orientation you can do different things. There 5700 train stations in Germany alone. Keeping them all in good shape is not so easy. Brightline does operate only a handful of stations.
You should have more confidence in private enterprise.
Why
I was actually in the Raliegh-Cary area over the weekend and used Amtrak to get there from Florida. I'm SUPER excited for Brightline because my Amtrak experience SUUUCKED. But it sucked in a "Not Amtrak's fault" Kinda way. I could just tell that they were under-staffed, under-funded, and under-supported. The trains were still packed. So there IS a demand for inter-city/state rail in the US.
Once Brightline gets hooked up to Orlando it's going to be a ground-zero for how much it's going to used. There's a tone of people who in Orlando that are 'From' other parts of the state who moved for business, retirement, and schooling. Going from South Florida to Orlando via rail will be a huge boon for a lot of them. On top of that, the planed expansion to Disney will greatly benefit a lot of people in the city, because it's going to be much easier to hop on Brightline than having to fight the Mad Max experience that is I-4 and Disney parks. I hope Orlando sees the Boon from this and starts to expand the Sun Rail, get an East-West going. Plz.
Japan has tons of private rail lines, and America historically was almost all private rail lines.
Come on, do a little research. Phase 3 is completely different and won’t be going to Disney Springs. This was huge news a few weeks ago because Disney got angry that they failed lobbying to have the only stop in Orlando besides MCO. Instead it’ll have a stop between the OCCC and Epic Universe before continuing west to Tampa.
I'm pretty sure they wrote the script and got the information before that was announced.
I wish the US didn't feel like a developing country