If it's not clear, this tier list was made before Heihachi came out but other than that ver. 1.08 changed so little that it all pretty much still applies. And even if I did it after it's still too soon to be placing Hei on a tier list
U should go to jail for this list Yoshi toptier, alisa? Azucena is currently mid not high not even close Victor has so many gaos in his neutral he is higjtier Raven bottom do u eating glue?
@@K-Wiss 😆Because they have so much extra time from not playing the game. However, they did raise an important question that I've never asked myself. Do I eating glue?
I'll be honest, I had forgotten to do a thumbnail so I quickly ran to tier maker and slapped characters down as fast a possible and this is what we ended up with lmao
As a Bryan main I would like to thank tmm for his contribution to the Bryan downplay, I will patiently be waiting for the buffs while continuing to push the agenda that he’s still playing t7
He’s actually still on T7.5 on the fact that he doesn’t have heat bs but his damage, CHs, taunt and some moves definitely make up for him and the fact that he’s downplayed by a lot of ppl is very funny indeed
dude. Bryan still play tekken 3 and im serious.. do you play the game or you play just ofline?? cuz Bryan is slow as fuck steppable with ez, and a jab interruypt he's heat smash so what are you talking about?? FD 21 back 24 they can punch you when you back for the 2 4 dude i mean you dont play the game right? Bryan is bad!! is A at best!!
Im a Jin main who just picked up Bryan yesterday and already got him to Mighty Ruler. Character is actually insane😂 very fun to play too and the downplay on him is criminal i always used to believe Bryan players were simply that good of players but after picking him up, nah... Dude is simply that busted
@@livingashtree1942 getting him to mighty ruler means, like basically nothing sorry. even a mediocre player can get just about any character there easily. Look at tournament wins, bryan has won like, one big tournament, like just recently, and that was Knee doing it. That's why he's not higher on this or other lists
Lol this whole comments section is structured like this Purple rank player: how dare you say my character is good. i lose all the time it cant be me😡 Hwo haters: how dare you say hwo isn't sss+ the downplay is crazy (eventhough i think he was being fair) Kwiss haters: I hate the way u walk, the way u talk,i hate the way way u dress, i hate the way u sneak diss😂😂
@@K-Wiss Why the Xiao downplay tho I main her and she should be way higher in 8, she can put you into a 50/50 where both options launch, the low is -12 and the mid is +6(lmao), she can loop this 3 times if she goes for the mid every time and she can also access this mixup from her +18/+22 backturn heat smash. Her damage is so high all she needs is one touch into corner carry into hyp 50/50 and she can 2 touch (I wish I was joking) from such a safe 50/50. If all this wasn't enough she can also loop F2,1,2 ff1,2 when in heat for a chip damage string that you basically have to hold(or gamble away but usually not worth it) A character with her neutral and defense(good things to exist in 8 where everyone is aggro) should not have this type of pressure
@@kaiok6776@kaiok6776 F2,1,2 is great as wall ender, but by itself is not that great, the final 2 string can be interrupted by an armor move, can be sidestepped, and even countered by an attack that has in-built sidestep, so I do not think is spammable. She is very linear from BT, except when she is ~+7. Her plus on block moves are all linear, except f4 (+1 lol). She is very evasive tho, not only with AOP but also with her BT transitions which gives her great mobility. I think she's strong in this game but not sure about putting her in S+
@@TWPY_ROXyou can easily counter that with f214 but that was just the extra, her evasion and unique skills arent even the problem. HYP 2 being +6 and +20 at the wall because of the wall slam is where the broken stuff starts with a low that is -12 and either launches or guarantees followups depending on if she delays it or not. ff4 also triggers wall slam when done at walls for +16 which is just the last thing needed to make this a game stealing 50/50 because wall carry is very easy now
At the end of the day even if we think we know how to play against certain characters, I still can get easily 3-0d in a match, some people are just really good at piloting their mains.
He has a very true and valid point and is one that I’ve always talked about in any game, and that is people who say “well these are the best characters in the game because of tournament results” or, “if such character is top tier, why is it not winning tournaments?” There are a lot of factors that are important such as who is playing the character and character matchup.
The thing is, Jin's hellsweep also used to launch. He also used to have his zen cancel. Both of these were core to his playstyle. Because they removed it, they had to give him other stuff or he'll just be his Tekken 7 self just worse.
Ling is definitely good in this game. Her low sweep from Hypnotist Stance alone gives her so many forced 50/50 options. The only thing I wish they would change is her heat smash from Rain Dance; you shouldn’t have to take a mixup after eating a heat smash.
@@notgonnapay she’s not good. If you have good spacing and keep her out, there’s nothing she can do. They gave her a strong heat to make up for it and she only shines at the wall. Overall she’s far from a good character
@@Cal3000 I never said she was an easy character to play. Once you start playing good Tekken players who know the matchup, you need to get good at whiff punishing with UB3 and standing 3, confusing the opponent with a lot of stance switching, and predicting what your opponent will do in certain situations (learning AOP option selects in certain matchups helps, too). Use her massive sidestep in RDS to whiff-punish people who mash after 1 d2, df1, and b2 on-block, empty cali roll in RDS into a quick BT grab or AOP if the opponent is standing there waiting for the kangaroo kick, etc. For people playing keepout, just let them approach you, and play keepout yourself with f4 and her orbital. If you have to go in on an opponent, use X Marks the Spot, Raccoon Swing, and ff4 if they’re not looking to duck it.
@@notgonnapay that’s the problem, she requires her opponent to take the bait. If her opponent doesn’t take the bait, she can be shut down with fundamental pokes. If you have an opponent that lets her run her offense and waits for an opening, she basically a sitting duck. There’s also a lot of characters that don’t allow her to run her offense or bait due to their range or usually characters that have a lot of ch strings that limit her movement options that otherwise turn the battle into an uphill struggle for her (this is like half the cast). I mean, there’s a reason why her wavu elo is low and she’s basically invisible out of pools in TWT.
@@Cal3000 I don't think you're very good with her, Xiao loves people pressing into her and poking, usually you would counter her with turtling and baiting her keepout moves, but this is no longer possible in Tekken 8, as she can rush you down and force you into 50/50s, I say this as someone who played her in 7 she is very strong in this game.
@@nayd5043 you can use the same tactics to keep her out similar to what it was in T5 and other Tekkens. Heat just gives her a little extra and she’s only truly strong against the walls. With all other characters supercharged, her relative position to other characters is basically the same. She’s mediocre, slightly below average.
The only other thing about Lee that is genuinely pretty bad is his tracking, a lot of the key moves he wants to be using in neutral have really bad tracking. But that being said his homing moves, especially 1+2, are godlike so you can very much so play around that weakness. I personally wouldn’t put him in s tier but the Lee downplay is crazy, and for what it’s worth I’m a Lee main
@@kaiok6776 db3+4 is only -13 and it’s +4 on hit, and his other lows that are launch punishable are at least unseeable so as long as you aren’t being to predictable with them it’s not too big of a deal. Idk I don’t think his lows are bad at all tbh, risky sure but often worth taking the risk
Ling is op. I came back to Tekken after yeeears of no tekken gameplay. So im a noob and im already almost at purple ranks. Anyone saying ling is bad... 😂
Dunno what a problem with launch hellsweep, it's the only way to deal some damage when oponent in neutral, and playing on DJ you always in neutral cuz of crazy pushbacks after almost all atack and combos. Hellsweep even don't give you so much amount of damage from combo and leaves a really TON amount of gray health. DJ has really the worst lows maybe in the entire game (idk, just my opinion), so that why he need this launch hellsweep.
Can you even get a wall combo off of dj's hellsweep? Been a while since I played but Kaz's hellsweep does a little less damage but landed from the right angle/spacing gives you a full tornado wall combo.
@@-LAH DJ can't get any wall combo from hellsweep. Even more, if you do a launch hellsweep at the wall, you get much less damage (like only 25-30). So yea, at the wall you use only mids or armor break charge attack. For me, Kazuya hellsweep is the best hellsweep in the game, you can do vortex, you has a very good mixups from CD (like all mishimas, btw), full wallcombo which takes a chunk of health.
As a TK locked ling I respect the opinion but nahhh. Aop can be easily counter hit during activation most activation moves are negative on block. Hypnotist is a true 50/50 but easily gets hit on activation. Mad interruptible move kit and back turn is easy to counter with basic blocking. S tier is crazy. And the argument was that she could duck a just frame upper..
People talk about nerfing Yoshimitsu, Dragunov, Nina(who definitely needs some nerfs) but I think they overlook other strong characters who need some nerfs too like Bryan, Jin,Shaheen and King.
Bryan doesn’t need nerfs imo probably remove qcb 1 but that’s not happening Jin’s down 2 shouldn’t launch on ch makes it minus 13 ch knock down. King shouldn’t be able to cancel a fully armored jaguar sprint. None of his throws should track. I don’t have that much knowledge on shaheen
@@Bloodhound_214 d2 is because db4 sucks on counter and cd4 no longer has a launch But anyway I don't believe in nerfing or buffing. They all got dealt something for a reason.
@@jaleelkahn7032 I suppose but down 2 carries a lot of Jin players I think the nerf of a ch nock down is justified if they make it minus 13 and 20 frames startup
Yeah you got like one of the best Paul opinions I’ve seen. Me personally he’s always strived as a really good defensive character but that’s just feels so off in T8.
Agree with King and Lee being on S, but King can also go S+. King's damage, moves and defense on T8 is ridiculous that as a player of Dragonuv, Yoshi, Reina, and the recent release Heihachi - King can still own. King is my go to character if I'm cornered and those who are even more experienced and better than me as a King user knows how King can be a comeback type of character. Also - King dash waving is not new. It started on T3, but HARD to execute and the mix-ups once you mastered it are insane. People just don't know it or forgot it exists. But the thing is, as the series goes on the dash becomes easier and easier to execute and more setups are becoming easier, like what is happening in T8. Oh - and he can side step HARD while dashing for those who cares. Remember Kazuya'z Devil form wave dash to side step waaaaaay back in T2? King since T6 can actually do it also but the execution is a bit clanky. But on T8, damn. It's smooth as butter once you learn the execution.
The stuff that has been taken away from Bryan: 4,3 ch 4,3,4 ch 4,3,f4 ch FC df4 ch Ff 4 ch 3+4 knockdown which completely removed oki in neutral. Df2,3 same thing here. Backdash nerf
Lets be real here I'm glad the F tier has been removed because one thing has sunk into my mind over time. I've seen ALL of these characters be a menace at some point. Additionally most of my roster is either S+ or S with my most played being S+ and one of my most powerful up and comers being S+ as well.
This might be a hot take but I think Alisa might have one of the best low kits in the game, besides d4 her lows arent super scary but as a kit they are phenomenal. D3, FC1+2, DB3, FLY 3, DES D1, DES D2 and the new chainsaw hellsweep. To me shes one of the most all round characters in the game and definitely deserves that top 5 spot.
She’s not top 5. Her des stance is clunky and her heaving plus frames from attacks in des is no different than Lidia, Leo or Leroy who can have mix and plus frames when going into their stance. She has good movement but only if u can kbd. Imo Jin is better. She is top 10 for sure
@@MrSquishy0 i mean whats the difference from her chainsaws going plus than any other character who goes plus into stance? At least you can identify her stance change and it’s not as subtle like some other characters. Leo is a good example. Like I agree she’s strong but it’s not the chainsaws itself that are OP. Imo it’s her movement with kbd since her hit box is weird
@@MrSquishy0 that’s fine if you don’t agree but tbh I think her going into stance while being plus is no different than any other character. I’m happy to be proven wrong. I just don’t see it
I agree with pretty much all of this. Except kazuya being in S. K-wiss, I’d love a discussion sometime about your thoughts regarding kazuya and hwoarang. I think I up play hwoarang a bit too often on my channel, and you do the same for kazuya. I think we could both teach each other things about our mains in a discussion sometime over discord with some other TH-camrs. Would love to have a dialog.
@@fireitup3674 I feel like they’re similar in strength. Kazuya has seen decent success in tournaments with 1 player, hwoarang has seen moderate success in tournaments with several players (edge, speedkicks, k-wiss himself, a couple other Korean players I can’t remember the names of). I think that’s fairly even. We see hwoarang regularly in top 24. Kazuya only makes top 24 with keisuke, and literally no one else. To me, that speaks more to keisuke’s insane skill than kazuya’s insane strength. Bottom line is kazuya is WAY too hard to pilot at intermediate to pro level that he’ll never be S Tier for that reason, if nothing else.
@@rastafari2k3 no he absolutely is not S tier. You can’t be the hardest character in the game and be S tier. The lack of consistency with kaz is enough to exclude him from S Tier alone.
I disagree, Devil Jin is bottom 5 if not 3, bad mids and one good low, launching hellsweep offers no oki if you want to do any damage, with nerfed range and no wall splat, and most importantly he generates so much grey health since all his damage comes from combos. His wall pressure is great I agree though.
Good punishment (like all Mishimas), ff2 is a good mid, uf4 is a good mid, b4 is a good mid, Mourning Crow 2 is a *great* mid (in heat) and Mourning Crow 1 is decent and so on and so forth. I don't think choosing between oki and damage is a valid con when that's normal in this game and the range on hellsweep launch is buffed from T7
@@K-Wiss ff2 is the worst out of all the mishimas, the range is garbo and the pushback nerf didn't do it any favours. it is the best mid he has if you're not counting db1+2, and its not a bad move, but i wouldn't call it a good mid. uf4 is not good, you are risking being floated by using it for little reward and giving up your turn fully, you never see momo or qudans use it any more. MC 2 is great during heat I agree, but again a one time use since you cant hit confirm it, and the risk reward of mc1 again is fucked considering its another float combo if its jabbed or full combo if its stepped. Choosing between damage and oki is fair, but the range of hellsweep launch may be buffed from t7 but at least you could do a normal combo from it, and not a backturned one. Also dislike how DJ is meant to have the sexiest hellsweep but theres many aspect of Kaz's that are better, namely the wallsplat and the fact he doesnt have to give up oki for damage in heat.
Agreed/great points. I think people hear "launching hellsweep" and think "oh shit that's OP" but it's truly useless, you're maxing around 45 dmg assuming you can even connect it (since most players would rather hard duck him atp since...his mids suck), maybe slightly more if you have insane WS3 connect execution (that Momodog talks about). His mids suck, partially due to balance and partially due to behavior (why does his DF1 phase through hitboxes even at point blank range at times??). I agree he's bottom 5 minimum, but I won't argue much on his placement on this list (essentially bottom 6 LOL)
@@K-Wissidk how to feel about ff2 nowadays. but as someone who played devil Jin since release, his ff2 was GODLIKE. Now it feels like trash compared to before. Maybe it’s balanced now but you need to understand, devil J’s ff2 used to smack. And now it feels weak once u experienced the old ff2
I really disagree with Lydia, i really like her and how her combos and strings feel. But its my personal opinion. Also another opinion is that jun is crazy good also. She is another character that just clicks for me as well. And i really love Leroy
Telling Xiaoyu players they just can't play is huge cope. She's got no strings, no neutral play, terrible hop kick, no range and she's linear + inconsistent combos. All she is is heat casino.
@@johndolo853 Found the TMM propaganda enjoyer. I get it though, you can't have a reasonable opinion of a charcter when you have no idea how it even works.
As a second ling main, until you pick her up and make it to Tekken God you have no opinion. That shit is so much easier for every other character in his S tier video. You have to make it off crazy fundamentals past blue ranks
K-wiss why are so many people ranking Feng so highly, yet saying not to play him and we see almost no representation from him in high level tournaments?
I don't think anyone with a sane mind would say that Ling is bad. 😁 But to be top tier? Nah, no statistic backs this up, nor tournament presence, just "feelings" and awkward examples like "AOP didn't evade this in previous games, now it does, booo" while ALL characters are OP compared to their older selves. Her win/loss ratio is not great at all, despite her pick rate is being low as well. Unline other rare characters like Zafina and bears - they are destroying everyone. She is definitely stronger than she has ever been, but in my opinion she is A+, she still has weaknesses.
Swear to god people who think Lee is this super secret top tier don’t understand Lee at all lmao. He has one of the worst heat engagers in the game considering that only two of them gives a launcher(ff3 and HM U3, with the latter being next to useless and the former being easily SSR) and his other heat engagers all end in highs that give pretty low damage after a heat dash if landed and just has bad usage of heat overall other than ws2,3, also has very poor tracking as he’s super weak to SSL/SWL, dies for all of his lows if blocked or sidestepped, has no power mids or mids that force crouch to lock someone down, lost tracking on his B4(one of his most crucial moves) from T7, and overall has to rely on poking and fundamentals compared to most of the cast especially against anyone that knows the matchup. Not saying he’s low tier, he’s mid at best but he’s no where near top tier lol yall most likely just don’t know the matchup and just get hit by obvious Lee flowcharts, Lee’s deadass rely on you playing like an idiot or just straight up outplaying you fundamentally.
This truly is a masterclass in downplay, bravo. He literally has in i11 natural heat engager which is tied for the fastest normal hit standing heat engager with Nina and a i13 mid twitch confirmable heat engager. Also an i12 low that he can confirm into 4,4 heat engage so he has far from the worst heat engagers in the game. Most of them not launching simply follow the rules of the game. There are no normal hit heat engagers faster than i14 that launch (besides Paul who seems to be the exception) and no high PC heat engagers that launch which is why those under the category don't launch but Lee still gets a strong follow up after them anyway with a mix up after spike. I can agree on tracking but he has moves like 1+2 to mitigate that. B4 is still one of the best keepout moves in this game and when he has moves like ff4 which reliably goes under mids I fail to see how he "has to rely on poking and fundamentals" has if he can't just scam you out (like a lot of the cast can) with some ridiculous evasion
@@K-Wiss Lee can’t even follow up with HM uf4 after his heat engagers anymore that got patched out awhile ago, at most he either gets ub3 or a very inconsistent blazing kick. Plus he needs panic moves like magic 4, CH d3, etc. he’d be complete dogshit without them considering he’ll just die under pressure since his movement is a little weak and I genuinely don’t know how you’re complaining about ff4 lol that move is gimmicky as hell. You literally just don’t jab/df1 check Lee if you know how good those moves are, also 1+2 isn’t even that good at mitigating his bad tracking, it’s -1 onb so you literally lose your turn making all his HM pressure fake and interruptible and it’s somewhat slow at i21. B4 literally lost its tracking, it’s completely linear in comparison to T7 so it’s not even as good anymore, still decent but no where near one of the best keep out moves in the game. He has to rely on fundamentals and strong poking for those that knows how linear he is, plus if you’re repeatedly getting counter hit by d3 and ff4 you’re legit just getting outplayed there’s nothing cheesy about those moves at all, especially considering d3 is -15 onb and extremely linear. Only thing I’ll give you is his wall oki, he has very strong tools at the wall and can kill you if you guess wrong on your wake up. Also extra note wall carry is not a unique feat in Tekken 8, damn every character in this game can take you wall to wall even on seaside resort
@@Fleez311 I was unaware that got nerfed but flip over oki is still good. I never said he needed magic 4 or d3 removed, I don't think anyone said that. "Just don't jab/df1" is hilarious considering ff4 goes under more moves than just that like it goes under my df2 reliably. Did you just say a mid homing CH launcher that evades is not good because it's -1 on block? The tracking of b4 isn't relevant when we're talking about it as a keep out CH launcher that is difficult to whiff punish, which is what makes it an amazing keep out tool. "Nothing cheesy about ff4" is genuinely due to the aforementioned reasons. And again you're bringing up d3 when I never mentioned it as a reason Lee is strong.
@@K-Wiss I must’ve misheard you mention d3 in the video but regardless I didn’t say 1+2 is bad on its own, i said it’s not enough to make up for his poor tracking. I say not to overly jab check because those are the most typical situations ff4 is used, to capitalize off someone that keeps jabbing or doing a df1. Also b4 not tracking is relevant when someone knows that actively sidestepping left is Lee’s weakness, there are situations where someone sidesteps Lee’s b4 and now he’s susceptible to getting hit by a demon paw or some other long range move(if a character has it) if he’s transitions to HM unless he commits to doing his very risky HM3 PC that’s a high
This is a very good tier list taking the strengths of the characters into account and placing them in a very fair manner which i was genuinely really happy with but there are only two characters placement that just bug me too much to not say anything and it seems to be bugging other people in the comment section as well. Those two characters are Kazuya and Bryan. Putting Kazuya and bryan in the same tier as lilli, claudio, law and victor like what is this 😂, bro you in the beginning of the making of the tier list said that the reason drag is above yoshi in the tier was because yoshi requires more execution and timing which drag doesn't need so much of but then you completely disregard bryan by saying he has qcb1. You are talking as if everyone just continuously gets hit by it brother people can see it coming from a mile away and duck it easily, i have had people in mighty ruler ranks start ducking qcb1 and punish it easily. And kazuya on the other hand you picked keisuke as an example as if every kazuya player can use him like keisuke does. Both of these characters are really hard to pilot and even if kazuya is doing good right now because of the 50/50 mix with his cd1+2, on other handBryan's neutral game sucks so putting him in the same tier as law (who has a better counter hit game then him), claudio(who has db1+2 which he can use in his neutral to completely fuck up the games flow and put the momentum in his favour), king (who also has a better neutral and counter hit game than most of the characters), lilli (who has a better a neutral and 50/50 then bryan with no execution) and even victor( who i don't even want to explain) is absurd. Bryan and kazuya should not be in S tier hell if you want to put them in S tier that badly then atleast put them in the bottom of S tier, why are they above lilli and ling. Oh and the thing about bryan having the best wall combo in the game I agree with that whole heartedly, that's why if you want to put him in S tier because of his wall game (which is really hard to do if we are including taunt in it) then it's fine but doesn't mean he should be above lilli and ling in the tier list. Ps. English is not my first language so sorry if i fucked something up
A character being hard to play or having difficult execution doesn’t make them bad. My tier lists are always based on a character being played at their best and I mention Keisuke because he shows what is possible with the character and if other Kazuya players can’t do that it’s a skill issue because. And Bryan’s neutral game is literally just poking with CH launchers and you mentioned that at mighty ruler people are easily ducking qcb1 well when the Bryan players are better and in higher ranks they don’t telegraph it as much and mix it up with qcf1+2 so it’s not that simple
@@K-Wiss look man i get that a character can be good and harder to pilot which shouldn't affect the tier list but you did that in the tier list as well when you said that the only reason drag is more busted than Yoshi right now is because Drag is easier to pilot(ps these might not be your exact words but you for sure said something along those lines) so you can't talk about harder to play for some characters and then completely disregard it for others, and as far as bryans neutral goes it really sucks man i am not even kidding in a game where aggression is the key bryan is the one of few characters in the game that plays like a turtle play style while fishing for a mistake by the opponent to launch them and take them to the wall to start his aggression. His mid poke sucks(df2), his low poking is almost non existent(his hatchet is reactable btw i can react to it better than i react to jin's d2), and all of bryan's counterhit tools only work on the opponent's mistake(pressing out of turn) hell king's df2 is better than all of bryan's counterhit tools(he can literally spam that and jabs to counterhit confirm df2 into combo easily), as far as the qcf1+2 and qcb1 mixup goes did you even lab that? You can easy side step right qcb1 and then hold block for qcf1+2 and completely stop the mixup so if duck qcb1 and get hit by qcf1+2 then just start using this defence option instead and most bryan's will only use these two move to cover up the distance between the characters(you mid poke bryan out of qcb and qcf easily when close by). So I am not like disregarding your opinion's on where these two(kazuya and bryan) characters should land on the tier but atleastgive avalid reason for them being there. Personally bryan should be at the bottom of the S tier as his wall game is just straight up busted in the hands of a good bryan player and kazuya should be rightinfront of Reina instead of these two being considered better than lilli or ling.
@@renfujiara9696that is not what I said about Drag and Yoshi. My point with that is in response to people who say Yoshi can’t be top tier because we don’t see Yoshi mirror matches like we see Drag and my answer to that is for the people that want to *tier whore* they will gravitate to Drag over Yoshi because he’s easier and better. And it’s funny you bring up me labbing the Bryan situation when you mentioned your rank earlier and simply put the Bryan players I am playing are good enough to where the “labbing” isn’t good enough in actual practice. In theory, sure and I’m obviously aware of it but in an actual match against a *good* Bryan player it’s a different story. Also regarding they should be at the bottom of S, I would like you to read what it says underneath S on my tier list
@@K-Wiss okay yeah then that's my fault I thought you said that Yoshi is more timing and execution heavy than drag that's why drag is busted. I misunderstood your argument there and It seems you misunderstood my labbing remark I meant that with no harm i was just explaining why that qcb1 and qcf1+2 mixup sucks but it might have come across as me telling you to lab which i don't mean that at all. As far as ranks go man I am a tekken god rank bryan/mighty ruler jack player i meant no disrespect on your part because you will obviously play better than me, you play this game for a living so as I said earlier your opinion on the tier were very respectable, i just had a bugged out moment over the bryan and kazuya placement because this game has been pretty shit with its character shenanigans (some characters get away with murder and some characters get murdered in broad daylight and I just feel that lilli and ling are some of those characters that get away with murder so I kinda tripped out after seeing bryan and kazuya above them) My fault.
@@K-Wiss another thing though is it just me or tekken 8 has been making others more like character angry for some reason because i was not this angry about certain matchups in tekken 7 and I played that game for 4 years but I have been getting so frustrated over specific character matchups in rank lately that I even uninstalled the game 3 days ago and now only play offline with my friends on a daily basis and as you can see i am still frustrated over it for some reason 💀
you are the only person who rates eddy that high everyone else think he is trash but i also think he is better than tk7 at least his gimmicks are decent in this game
Jun has b3 too lol why everyone ignores that, she has all Asuka busted moves like parries, canacans,f2 and she is fundamentally way better lol. She got that safe string pressure, keep out and pokes Asuka doesn’t have. I see zero sense playing Asuka in tekken 8 when you have just better version of her. Also Asukas d1+2 is launch punishable garbage low that often whiffs at the wall and has shit range, there are way better unseeable lows in this game, also db1 is -10 poke lol very good. The only point I agree with is naniwa gusto being strong
*K-Wiss:* "Lidia, babe, I'm really sorry, buuuut..." *Lidia:* "I'm bad in Tekken 8? It sucks, but you can be honest with me." *K-Wiss:* "Oh, good. Yeah, you're kinda bad in Tekken 8, but I was actually going to say I broke your grandmother's vase-" *Lidia:* "WHAT?!"
As a Raven player this is insulting lol. Raven is A! I’d like to see you play ShinobiKun904. You said you don’t understand Raven. Watch ShinobiKun904 play him.
King's b1, 2 isn't really confirmable, you can't delay the second input that much. It's more like if you expect the counterhit you can confirm it, but more often you just have to let it rip. I'm surprised you didn't bring up his heat smash, which is still pretty nonsensical
Pretty good tier list only thing i disagree with is steve honestly dont think hes really downplayed hes not trash yes but hes not that great imo he has it rough...
38:41 "Nooooo. But Mr. Streamer, he does have any good lows after the d3,4 nerf. He is just too risky for tournaments and he hasnts the tools other top tiers have"
@@K-Wiss She's a solid B like every other Tekken. She doesn't have the results to show she's an S, especially from the 15k play pool. Surly there would have been at least one stand out. She struggles against half the cast also.
Dawg just doesn’t know how to play against her so he put her in S. I respect it, but I as long I also know he’s mad wrong about his take on her. Should be way lower lol
@@Laz3y You said in another comment that you’re hardstuck Tekken King so I can say with absolute certainty that the Ling players I play against are miles better than you and actually know how to utilise the character and actual good Ling players like Changbang and Yoredz routinely talk about how bullshit the character can be. But again, it’s me just not knowing how to play against the character when there’s so much evidence of me beating the brakes off of the character at GoD. But who knows? Maybe the hardstuck Tekken King knows more than I do
@@K-Wiss mb I should’ve said like first 25min, but king not being s+, but shaheen is, Bryan being in s tier, and hwoarang being below s tier are the only problems I have, everything else can be debated tho.
@@Pond-aep I think Shaheen is definitely stronger than King even though I debated King in S+, King just has more defined weaknesses and a worse MU spread. I think Bryan is a clear S tier with how he limits your options when played optimally. Hwoarang simply does not fit in with the other characters at S tier while still strong, his weaknesses are more defined than the others in S tier
My biggest issue with everyone complaining about yoshimitsu. He’s had the same move list for years. The flash and spin are not new attacks. 11 isn’t new. They made him a good character and y’all hate it.
He's been allowed to have those attacks because they never made him a good character. Now he has good neutral tools, great heat application, good damage, good counterhits plus the preexisting spin that allows him to escape pressure in a game that enforces it and flash that makes the opponent have to play more passive in a game about aggression.
Huh? Except his gimmicks now rewards you with stupid high amount of damage,easy wall to wall carry, stupid oki on heat, and that dumb breath that will hit anything even if you are doing crush high attacks.
I lab that shit and I, legitimately, don't know what the fuck you do about Alisa's chainsaws. It's funny that K-Wiss considers both of mains, Reina and Lili, as S-tier. I'm not saying they aren't very good, because they very much are. I am not an S-tier player, so their placement doesn't matter much for me. I'll still continue to say Reina's df2 should launch crouchers, or be safe. Being unsafe and not launching crouchers feels so dumb. 17:14 - 18:58 Just had to timestamp that because I felt it in my soul. Playing against a good Ling is painful, and I despise her backturn Heat Smash so fucking much. As for King, WHY is the best grappler in fighting games right now in the fighting game I play? Why? Just why? Panda might be the most unfortunate character in this game. She's still mostly a Kuma clone, but the unique stuff Kuma gets is *SO* much better, that "pandas are cute" is the only reason to play her.
Im sorry but Kings ff n 2 should be -13 since it has no tracking at all. Meanwhile xiayou has a homing unreactable low sweep which guaranteed half lifes you and -13. jagur sprint is the worst stance in the game, since the mixup is between the dropkick and the elbow. Rko is reactable and its not true. Can get countered by lows and grabs and has no tracking. His heat smash might need gets tuned down, otherwise, stop downtalking my boi
U honestly with a straight face think hworang is better than those characters in the s tier and s+ tier??😂😂😂 I'm honestly curious to hear which character up there he's better than tell me I'm all ears....😂😂
@@Rius9106 who up there hes better than tell me most he is, is at the top of A tell me who above him hes better than?? He can only replace someone above him
@@Rius9106 I mean you could make an argument for Hwo being high A Tier if you really want to. But can you honestly justify putting him right next to Feng, King, Claudio, Lili or god damn Xiaoyu ? Is Hwo better than the A Tiers ? Maybe, I dont think he is but alright. However he is not as outragous as the S Tiers in my book, so A Tier should suffice.
If it's not clear, this tier list was made before Heihachi came out but other than that ver. 1.08 changed so little that it all pretty much still applies. And even if I did it after it's still too soon to be placing Hei on a tier list
U should go to jail for this list
Yoshi toptier, alisa?
Azucena is currently mid not high not even close
Victor has so many gaos in his neutral he is higjtier
Raven bottom do u eating glue?
@@Sure6969 Why is it always the low iq absolutely dogshit players that do not understand this game at all that are the most vocal?
@@Sure6969 This has to be bait lol. If you genuinely don't see how Yoshi or Alisa are top tier right now, you're either delusional or like yellow rank
@@K-Wiss 😆Because they have so much extra time from not playing the game. However, they did raise an important question that I've never asked myself. Do I eating glue?
@@zacharyalan4977 Glue eating I do
I'll have whatever the guy who made the tier list in the thumbnail is having
I'll be honest, I had forgotten to do a thumbnail so I quickly ran to tier maker and slapped characters down as fast a possible and this is what we ended up with lmao
@@K-Wiss Lmao
As a Bryan main I would like to thank tmm for his contribution to the Bryan downplay, I will patiently be waiting for the buffs while continuing to push the agenda that he’s still playing t7
He’s actually still on T7.5 on the fact that he doesn’t have heat bs but his damage, CHs, taunt and some moves definitely make up for him and the fact that he’s downplayed by a lot of ppl is very funny indeed
dude. Bryan still play tekken 3 and im serious.. do you play the game or you play just ofline?? cuz Bryan is slow as fuck steppable with ez, and a jab interruypt he's heat smash so what are you talking about?? FD 21 back 24 they can punch you when you back for the 2 4 dude i mean you dont play the game right? Bryan is bad!! is A at best!!
Im a Jin main who just picked up Bryan yesterday and already got him to Mighty Ruler. Character is actually insane😂 very fun to play too and the downplay on him is criminal
i always used to believe Bryan players were simply that good of players but after picking him up, nah... Dude is simply that busted
@@livingashtree1942 cope is real
@@livingashtree1942 getting him to mighty ruler means, like basically nothing sorry. even a mediocre player can get just about any character there easily. Look at tournament wins, bryan has won like, one big tournament, like just recently, and that was Knee doing it. That's why he's not higher on this or other lists
0/10 take didn’t downplay howrang as bottom 1.
Remember y'all, it's his opinion
Lol yeah. People keep forgetting that everyone had different opinions
All in respect. 🫡 ☺️
Facts
Idc if it's his opinion; if he says something that's a take, I'M GONNA SHIT MYSELF (not serious just wanted to say that classic line lol)
@@SPOOKYTIMEZ2077 ok let’s see yours then. 📋🤔
Lol this whole comments section is structured like this
Purple rank player: how dare you say my character is good. i lose all the time it cant be me😡
Hwo haters: how dare you say hwo isn't sss+ the downplay is crazy (eventhough i think he was being fair)
Kwiss haters: I hate the way u walk, the way u talk,i hate the way way u dress, i hate the way u sneak diss😂😂
I haven't laughed at a comment this hard in a while lmaoooooooo
@@K-Wiss Why the Xiao downplay tho I main her and she should be way higher in 8, she can put you into a 50/50 where both options launch, the low is -12 and the mid is +6(lmao), she can loop this 3 times if she goes for the mid every time and she can also access this mixup from her +18/+22 backturn heat smash. Her damage is so high all she needs is one touch into corner carry into hyp 50/50 and she can 2 touch (I wish I was joking) from such a safe 50/50.
If all this wasn't enough she can also loop F2,1,2 ff1,2 when in heat for a chip damage string that you basically have to hold(or gamble away but usually not worth it)
A character with her neutral and defense(good things to exist in 8 where everyone is aggro) should not have this type of pressure
@@kaiok6776@kaiok6776 F2,1,2 is great as wall ender, but by itself is not that great, the final 2 string can be interrupted by an armor move, can be sidestepped, and even countered by an attack that has in-built sidestep, so I do not think is spammable. She is very linear from BT, except when she is ~+7. Her plus on block moves are all linear, except f4 (+1 lol). She is very evasive tho, not only with AOP but also with her BT transitions which gives her great mobility. I think she's strong in this game but not sure about putting her in S+
@@TWPY_ROXyou can easily counter that with f214 but that was just the extra, her evasion and unique skills arent even the problem.
HYP 2 being +6 and +20 at the wall because of the wall slam is where the broken stuff starts with a low that is -12 and either launches or guarantees followups depending on if she delays it or not. ff4 also triggers wall slam when done at walls for +16 which is just the last thing needed to make this a game stealing 50/50 because wall carry is very easy now
Babe wake up, K-Wiss dropped a tier list!
Glad law unga bunga silly big damage looking ass is up there.
Can't stand that fool
I have to say this is the best tier list I've seen. The higher the tier, the more my annoyance, nerves go up thinking about fighting those characters.
At the end of the day even if we think we know how to play against certain characters, I still can get easily 3-0d in a match, some people are just really good at piloting their mains.
inaccurate tier list drag should be bottom tier, dvj needs nerfs
He has a very true and valid point and is one that I’ve always talked about in any game, and that is people who say “well these are the best characters in the game because of tournament results” or, “if such character is top tier, why is it not winning tournaments?” There are a lot of factors that are important such as who is playing the character and character matchup.
Jins 2,1,4 has always been good, but he never got a CD1 or d2 if the 4 hit counterhit. I dont know why they made it do that
They want you to get up. Not stay on the ground promoting the slow gameplay they want us to not do lol
@@Daytimeprophet3 It didn't knock down in old games at all. It just gave frames
@@Daytimeprophet3It’s guaranteed though
The thing is, Jin's hellsweep also used to launch. He also used to have his zen cancel. Both of these were core to his playstyle. Because they removed it, they had to give him other stuff or he'll just be his Tekken 7 self just worse.
To make up for losing the original df1,4 but even then who eats (2,1)4 on CH lol
You're take on Kazuya was so right. He is definitely a S tier character so hard to fight
I definitely never felt like Devil Jin was horrible but I do think he’s underwhelming for this game.
i love seeing how other people react to someone downplaying their main. they immediately assume its a bad tier list, i love it.
Ling is definitely good in this game. Her low sweep from Hypnotist Stance alone gives her so many forced 50/50 options.
The only thing I wish they would change is her heat smash from Rain Dance; you shouldn’t have to take a mixup after eating a heat smash.
@@notgonnapay she’s not good. If you have good spacing and keep her out, there’s nothing she can do. They gave her a strong heat to make up for it and she only shines at the wall. Overall she’s far from a good character
@@Cal3000 I never said she was an easy character to play. Once you start playing good Tekken players who know the matchup, you need to get good at whiff punishing with UB3 and standing 3, confusing the opponent with a lot of stance switching, and predicting what your opponent will do in certain situations (learning AOP option selects in certain matchups helps, too). Use her massive sidestep in RDS to whiff-punish people who mash after 1 d2, df1, and b2 on-block, empty cali roll in RDS into a quick BT grab or AOP if the opponent is standing there waiting for the kangaroo kick, etc.
For people playing keepout, just let them approach you, and play keepout yourself with f4 and her orbital. If you have to go in on an opponent, use X Marks the Spot, Raccoon Swing, and ff4 if they’re not looking to duck it.
@@notgonnapay that’s the problem, she requires her opponent to take the bait. If her opponent doesn’t take the bait, she can be shut down with fundamental pokes. If you have an opponent that lets her run her offense and waits for an opening, she basically a sitting duck. There’s also a lot of characters that don’t allow her to run her offense or bait due to their range or usually characters that have a lot of ch strings that limit her movement options that otherwise turn the battle into an uphill struggle for her (this is like half the cast). I mean, there’s a reason why her wavu elo is low and she’s basically invisible out of pools in TWT.
@@Cal3000 I don't think you're very good with her, Xiao loves people pressing into her and poking, usually you would counter her with turtling and baiting her keepout moves, but this is no longer possible in Tekken 8, as she can rush you down and force you into 50/50s, I say this as someone who played her in 7 she is very strong in this game.
@@nayd5043 you can use the same tactics to keep her out similar to what it was in T5 and other Tekkens. Heat just gives her a little extra and she’s only truly strong against the walls. With all other characters supercharged, her relative position to other characters is basically the same. She’s mediocre, slightly below average.
The only other thing about Lee that is genuinely pretty bad is his tracking, a lot of the key moves he wants to be using in neutral have really bad tracking. But that being said his homing moves, especially 1+2, are godlike so you can very much so play around that weakness. I personally wouldn’t put him in s tier but the Lee downplay is crazy, and for what it’s worth I’m a Lee main
Almost all of his main lows are launch punishable other than db3 which is minus on hit i20
@@kaiok6776 db3+4 is only -13 and it’s +4 on hit, and his other lows that are launch punishable are at least unseeable so as long as you aren’t being to predictable with them it’s not too big of a deal. Idk I don’t think his lows are bad at all tbh, risky sure but often worth taking the risk
sounds like a pretty big downside.
Saying fengs heatmash is “not good” is crazy work😂
Amazed that we're this deep in and people who play this game religiously STILL don't know what to make of Raven.
It's just the low pick rate I guess. I hardly play against the character and hardly see the character in tournaments to have a truly informed opinion
Lars and Raven out there playing Naruto
Ling is op. I came back to Tekken after yeeears of no tekken gameplay.
So im a noob and im already almost at purple ranks. Anyone saying ling is bad... 😂
Dunno what a problem with launch hellsweep, it's the only way to deal some damage when oponent in neutral, and playing on DJ you always in neutral cuz of crazy pushbacks after almost all atack and combos. Hellsweep even don't give you so much amount of damage from combo and leaves a really TON amount of gray health. DJ has really the worst lows maybe in the entire game (idk, just my opinion), so that why he need this launch hellsweep.
Yeah the hellsweep damage is so overrated.
Can you even get a wall combo off of dj's hellsweep? Been a while since I played but Kaz's hellsweep does a little less damage but landed from the right angle/spacing gives you a full tornado wall combo.
@@-LAH DJ can't get any wall combo from hellsweep. Even more, if you do a launch hellsweep at the wall, you get much less damage (like only 25-30). So yea, at the wall you use only mids or armor break charge attack.
For me, Kazuya hellsweep is the best hellsweep in the game, you can do vortex, you has a very good mixups from CD (like all mishimas, btw), full wallcombo which takes a chunk of health.
As a TK locked ling I respect the opinion but nahhh. Aop can be easily counter hit during activation most activation moves are negative on block. Hypnotist is a true 50/50 but easily gets hit on activation. Mad interruptible move kit and back turn is easy to counter with basic blocking. S tier is crazy. And the argument was that she could duck a just frame upper..
Steve is, the perfect middle
Keep on keeping up!
Only thing they took away from Bryan is the northern cross counter hit getting taken away
Asuka’s bit was hilarious lol
People talk about nerfing Yoshimitsu, Dragunov, Nina(who definitely needs some nerfs) but I think they overlook other strong characters who need some nerfs too like Bryan, Jin,Shaheen and King.
No they don't
King💀
Bryan doesn’t need nerfs imo probably remove qcb 1 but that’s not happening Jin’s down 2 shouldn’t launch on ch makes it minus 13 ch knock down. King shouldn’t be able to cancel a fully armored jaguar sprint. None of his throws should track. I don’t have that much knowledge on shaheen
@@Bloodhound_214 d2 is because db4 sucks on counter and cd4 no longer has a launch
But anyway I don't believe in nerfing or buffing. They all got dealt something for a reason.
@@jaleelkahn7032 I suppose but down 2 carries a lot of Jin players I think the nerf of a ch nock down is justified if they make it minus 13 and 20 frames startup
Yeah you got like one of the best Paul opinions I’ve seen. Me personally he’s always strived as a really good defensive character but that’s just feels so off in T8.
Finally an honest take on Feng & Paul
Agree with King and Lee being on S, but King can also go S+. King's damage, moves and defense on T8 is ridiculous that as a player of Dragonuv, Yoshi, Reina, and the recent release Heihachi - King can still own. King is my go to character if I'm cornered and those who are even more experienced and better than me as a King user knows how King can be a comeback type of character.
Also - King dash waving is not new. It started on T3, but HARD to execute and the mix-ups once you mastered it are insane. People just don't know it or forgot it exists. But the thing is, as the series goes on the dash becomes easier and easier to execute and more setups are becoming easier, like what is happening in T8.
Oh - and he can side step HARD while dashing for those who cares. Remember Kazuya'z Devil form wave dash to side step waaaaaay back in T2? King since T6 can actually do it also but the execution is a bit clanky. But on T8, damn. It's smooth as butter once you learn the execution.
Hwoarang ,alzuscena and jun in A tier and Kazuya S tier is well.. unexpected
Not the ZoE music 1:01:06 straight fireeeee oh list is cool too.
Damn, shit got real when he got to Claudio 🤣🤣
As a Leroy main i need u to stop telling people to grab after blocking db3 😭😭😭😭
Lmao the passionate hate with claudio he deserves it byyyyy the waaay
It’s very justified given how bullshit he currently is.
As a Lidia main, i guess I'm happy with this for potential buffs in the near future
That steve take is crazy ngl, agree with the rest of the takes tho.
Good shxt
Anyone saying asuka is bad is out of their mind also because asuka is so damn good
The stuff that has been taken away from Bryan:
4,3 ch
4,3,4 ch
4,3,f4 ch
FC df4 ch
Ff 4 ch
3+4 knockdown which completely removed oki in neutral.
Df2,3 same thing here.
Backdash nerf
Nice, thanks for sharing❤
why is lee so high 💀
Because hes a broken nonsense cheese character lmfao
@@johndolo853 what broken nonsense cheese ? 💀
@@johndolo853you trippin lol
Nah Bryan next to jin and feng is mad
Lets be real here I'm glad the F tier has been removed because one thing has sunk into my mind over time.
I've seen ALL of these characters be a menace at some point.
Additionally most of my roster is either S+ or S with my most played being S+ and one of my most powerful up and comers being S+ as well.
i would switch leroy with devil jin and place heihachi behind steve but else great tierlist
50:01 Ladies and gentlemen and that's why he's the GOAT
Brayan is so underestimated, unreactable lows , good neutral moves and and one of if not the most destructive damages from one touch to 65% health
This might be a hot take but I think Alisa might have one of the best low kits in the game, besides d4 her lows arent super scary but as a kit they are phenomenal. D3, FC1+2, DB3, FLY 3, DES D1, DES D2 and the new chainsaw hellsweep. To me shes one of the most all round characters in the game and definitely deserves that top 5 spot.
She’s not top 5. Her des stance is clunky and her heaving plus frames from attacks in des is no different than Lidia, Leo or Leroy who can have mix and plus frames when going into their stance. She has good movement but only if u can kbd. Imo Jin is better. She is top 10 for sure
@@hands-ongaming7180 I don't agree with your take on the chainsaws and I guess you can argue that Jin is better but she's still top 5
@@MrSquishy0 i mean whats the difference from her chainsaws going plus than any other character who goes plus into stance? At least you can identify her stance change and it’s not as subtle like some other characters. Leo is a good example.
Like I agree she’s strong but it’s not the chainsaws itself that are OP. Imo it’s her movement with kbd since her hit box is weird
@@MrSquishy0 that’s fine if you don’t agree but tbh I think her going into stance while being plus is no different than any other character. I’m happy to be proven wrong. I just don’t see it
@@MrSquishy0 still waiting
I agree with pretty much all of this. Except kazuya being in S. K-wiss, I’d love a discussion sometime about your thoughts regarding kazuya and hwoarang. I think I up play hwoarang a bit too often on my channel, and you do the same for kazuya. I think we could both teach each other things about our mains in a discussion sometime over discord with some other TH-camrs. Would love to have a dialog.
Kazuya over Hworang is CRAZY
@@fireitup3674 I feel like they’re similar in strength. Kazuya has seen decent success in tournaments with 1 player, hwoarang has seen moderate success in tournaments with several players (edge, speedkicks, k-wiss himself, a couple other Korean players I can’t remember the names of). I think that’s fairly even. We see hwoarang regularly in top 24. Kazuya only makes top 24 with keisuke, and literally no one else. To me, that speaks more to keisuke’s insane skill than kazuya’s insane strength. Bottom line is kazuya is WAY too hard to pilot at intermediate to pro level that he’ll never be S Tier for that reason, if nothing else.
Both of y’all downplaying your mains 😂
Kaz is easy S tier
@@rastafari2k3 no he absolutely is not S tier. You can’t be the hardest character in the game and be S tier. The lack of consistency with kaz is enough to exclude him from S Tier alone.
I disagree, Devil Jin is bottom 5 if not 3, bad mids and one good low, launching hellsweep offers no oki if you want to do any damage, with nerfed range and no wall splat, and most importantly he generates so much grey health since all his damage comes from combos. His wall pressure is great I agree though.
Good punishment (like all Mishimas), ff2 is a good mid, uf4 is a good mid, b4 is a good mid, Mourning Crow 2 is a *great* mid (in heat) and Mourning Crow 1 is decent and so on and so forth. I don't think choosing between oki and damage is a valid con when that's normal in this game and the range on hellsweep launch is buffed from T7
@@K-Wiss ff2 is the worst out of all the mishimas, the range is garbo and the pushback nerf didn't do it any favours. it is the best mid he has if you're not counting db1+2, and its not a bad move, but i wouldn't call it a good mid. uf4 is not good, you are risking being floated by using it for little reward and giving up your turn fully, you never see momo or qudans use it any more. MC 2 is great during heat I agree, but again a one time use since you cant hit confirm it, and the risk reward of mc1 again is fucked considering its another float combo if its jabbed or full combo if its stepped.
Choosing between damage and oki is fair, but the range of hellsweep launch may be buffed from t7 but at least you could do a normal combo from it, and not a backturned one. Also dislike how DJ is meant to have the sexiest hellsweep but theres many aspect of Kaz's that are better, namely the wallsplat and the fact he doesnt have to give up oki for damage in heat.
Agreed/great points. I think people hear "launching hellsweep" and think "oh shit that's OP" but it's truly useless, you're maxing around 45 dmg assuming you can even connect it (since most players would rather hard duck him atp since...his mids suck), maybe slightly more if you have insane WS3 connect execution (that Momodog talks about).
His mids suck, partially due to balance and partially due to behavior (why does his DF1 phase through hitboxes even at point blank range at times??).
I agree he's bottom 5 minimum, but I won't argue much on his placement on this list (essentially bottom 6 LOL)
“I disagree, Devil Jin is bottom 5” brother… he put him at bottom 6. It ain’t that deep 😭😭
@@K-Wissidk how to feel about ff2 nowadays. but as someone who played devil Jin since release, his ff2 was GODLIKE. Now it feels like trash compared to before. Maybe it’s balanced now but you need to understand, devil J’s ff2 used to smack. And now it feels weak once u experienced the old ff2
51:28 lmaooo thank you, that character is so dumb in heat
Im GOD with Lidia this placement was perfect she needs buffs
I really disagree with Lydia, i really like her and how her combos and strings feel. But its my personal opinion. Also another opinion is that jun is crazy good also. She is another character that just clicks for me as well. And i really love Leroy
tbh I agree on lee our heat is trash I would say our lows are controversial but I would say buff db 3+4 but that’s it tbh
A great person to form a tier list but I wish you time stamped because there are like a dozen characters I never care to hear about lol
Telling Xiaoyu players they just can't play is huge cope. She's got no strings, no neutral play, terrible hop kick, no range and she's linear + inconsistent combos. All she is is heat casino.
LMFAOOOOO FOUND THE LING MAIN
@@johndolo853 Found the TMM propaganda enjoyer. I get it though, you can't have a reasonable opinion of a charcter when you have no idea how it even works.
As a second ling main, until you pick her up and make it to Tekken God you have no opinion. That shit is so much easier for every other character in his S tier video. You have to make it off crazy fundamentals past blue ranks
You people are the reason why nobody likes Tekken fans
that thumbnail got me bro
K-wiss why are so many people ranking Feng so highly, yet saying not to play him and we see almost no representation from him in high level tournaments?
I don't think anyone with a sane mind would say that Ling is bad. 😁
But to be top tier? Nah, no statistic backs this up, nor tournament presence, just "feelings" and awkward examples like "AOP didn't evade this in previous games, now it does, booo" while ALL characters are OP compared to their older selves. Her win/loss ratio is not great at all, despite her pick rate is being low as well. Unline other rare characters like Zafina and bears - they are destroying everyone.
She is definitely stronger than she has ever been, but in my opinion she is A+, she still has weaknesses.
" ur gonna get jumped by dvj mains" 😂😂😂😂 , respec the apologies in advance 😂, and yeah i agree only his heatsmash needed a nerf.
Wtf victor is higher than Hwoarang ...
Swear to god people who think Lee is this super secret top tier don’t understand Lee at all lmao.
He has one of the worst heat engagers in the game considering that only two of them gives a launcher(ff3 and HM U3, with the latter being next to useless and the former being easily SSR) and his other heat engagers all end in highs that give pretty low damage after a heat dash if landed and just has bad usage of heat overall other than ws2,3, also has very poor tracking as he’s super weak to SSL/SWL, dies for all of his lows if blocked or sidestepped, has no power mids or mids that force crouch to lock someone down, lost tracking on his B4(one of his most crucial moves) from T7, and overall has to rely on poking and fundamentals compared to most of the cast especially against anyone that knows the matchup.
Not saying he’s low tier, he’s mid at best but he’s no where near top tier lol yall most likely just don’t know the matchup and just get hit by obvious Lee flowcharts, Lee’s deadass rely on you playing like an idiot or just straight up outplaying you fundamentally.
This truly is a masterclass in downplay, bravo.
He literally has in i11 natural heat engager which is tied for the fastest normal hit standing heat engager with Nina and a i13 mid twitch confirmable heat engager. Also an i12 low that he can confirm into 4,4 heat engage so he has far from the worst heat engagers in the game. Most of them not launching simply follow the rules of the game. There are no normal hit heat engagers faster than i14 that launch (besides Paul who seems to be the exception) and no high PC heat engagers that launch which is why those under the category don't launch but Lee still gets a strong follow up after them anyway with a mix up after spike. I can agree on tracking but he has moves like 1+2 to mitigate that. B4 is still one of the best keepout moves in this game and when he has moves like ff4 which reliably goes under mids I fail to see how he "has to rely on poking and fundamentals" has if he can't just scam you out (like a lot of the cast can) with some ridiculous evasion
@@K-Wissi feel so validated
@@K-Wiss Lee can’t even follow up with HM uf4 after his heat engagers anymore that got patched out awhile ago, at most he either gets ub3 or a very inconsistent blazing kick. Plus he needs panic moves like magic 4, CH d3, etc. he’d be complete dogshit without them considering he’ll just die under pressure since his movement is a little weak and I genuinely don’t know how you’re complaining about ff4 lol that move is gimmicky as hell. You literally just don’t jab/df1 check Lee if you know how good those moves are, also 1+2 isn’t even that good at mitigating his bad tracking, it’s -1 onb so you literally lose your turn making all his HM pressure fake and interruptible and it’s somewhat slow at i21. B4 literally lost its tracking, it’s completely linear in comparison to T7 so it’s not even as good anymore, still decent but no where near one of the best keep out moves in the game. He has to rely on fundamentals and strong poking for those that knows how linear he is, plus if you’re repeatedly getting counter hit by d3 and ff4 you’re legit just getting outplayed there’s nothing cheesy about those moves at all, especially considering d3 is -15 onb and extremely linear. Only thing I’ll give you is his wall oki, he has very strong tools at the wall and can kill you if you guess wrong on your wake up.
Also extra note wall carry is not a unique feat in Tekken 8, damn every character in this game can take you wall to wall even on seaside resort
@@Fleez311 I was unaware that got nerfed but flip over oki is still good. I never said he needed magic 4 or d3 removed, I don't think anyone said that. "Just don't jab/df1" is hilarious considering ff4 goes under more moves than just that like it goes under my df2 reliably. Did you just say a mid homing CH launcher that evades is not good because it's -1 on block? The tracking of b4 isn't relevant when we're talking about it as a keep out CH launcher that is difficult to whiff punish, which is what makes it an amazing keep out tool. "Nothing cheesy about ff4" is genuinely due to the aforementioned reasons. And again you're bringing up d3 when I never mentioned it as a reason Lee is strong.
@@K-Wiss I must’ve misheard you mention d3 in the video but regardless I didn’t say 1+2 is bad on its own, i said it’s not enough to make up for his poor tracking. I say not to overly jab check because those are the most typical situations ff4 is used, to capitalize off someone that keeps jabbing or doing a df1. Also b4 not tracking is relevant when someone knows that actively sidestepping left is Lee’s weakness, there are situations where someone sidesteps Lee’s b4 and now he’s susceptible to getting hit by a demon paw or some other long range move(if a character has it) if he’s transitions to HM unless he commits to doing his very risky HM3 PC that’s a high
This is a very good tier list taking the strengths of the characters into account and placing them in a very fair manner which i was genuinely really happy with but there are only two characters placement that just bug me too much to not say anything and it seems to be bugging other people in the comment section as well. Those two characters are Kazuya and Bryan. Putting Kazuya and bryan in the same tier as lilli, claudio, law and victor like what is this 😂, bro you in the beginning of the making of the tier list said that the reason drag is above yoshi in the tier was because yoshi requires more execution and timing which drag doesn't need so much of but then you completely disregard bryan by saying he has qcb1. You are talking as if everyone just continuously gets hit by it brother people can see it coming from a mile away and duck it easily, i have had people in mighty ruler ranks start ducking qcb1 and punish it easily. And kazuya on the other hand you picked keisuke as an example as if every kazuya player can use him like keisuke does. Both of these characters are really hard to pilot and even if kazuya is doing good right now because of the 50/50 mix with his cd1+2, on other handBryan's neutral game sucks so putting him in the same tier as law (who has a better counter hit game then him), claudio(who has db1+2 which he can use in his neutral to completely fuck up the games flow and put the momentum in his favour), king (who also has a better neutral and counter hit game than most of the characters), lilli (who has a better a neutral and 50/50 then bryan with no execution) and even victor( who i don't even want to explain) is absurd. Bryan and kazuya should not be in S tier hell if you want to put them in S tier that badly then atleast put them in the bottom of S tier, why are they above lilli and ling. Oh and the thing about bryan having the best wall combo in the game I agree with that whole heartedly, that's why if you want to put him in S tier because of his wall game (which is really hard to do if we are including taunt in it) then it's fine but doesn't mean he should be above lilli and ling in the tier list.
Ps. English is not my first language so sorry if i fucked something up
A character being hard to play or having difficult execution doesn’t make them bad. My tier lists are always based on a character being played at their best and I mention Keisuke because he shows what is possible with the character and if other Kazuya players can’t do that it’s a skill issue because. And Bryan’s neutral game is literally just poking with CH launchers and you mentioned that at mighty ruler people are easily ducking qcb1 well when the Bryan players are better and in higher ranks they don’t telegraph it as much and mix it up with qcf1+2 so it’s not that simple
@@K-Wiss look man i get that a character can be good and harder to pilot which shouldn't affect the tier list but you did that in the tier list as well when you said that the only reason drag is more busted than Yoshi right now is because Drag is easier to pilot(ps these might not be your exact words but you for sure said something along those lines) so you can't talk about harder to play for some characters and then completely disregard it for others, and as far as bryans neutral goes it really sucks man i am not even kidding in a game where aggression is the key bryan is the one of few characters in the game that plays like a turtle play style while fishing for a mistake by the opponent to launch them and take them to the wall to start his aggression. His mid poke sucks(df2), his low poking is almost non existent(his hatchet is reactable btw i can react to it better than i react to jin's d2), and all of bryan's counterhit tools only work on the opponent's mistake(pressing out of turn) hell king's df2 is better than all of bryan's counterhit tools(he can literally spam that and jabs to counterhit confirm df2 into combo easily), as far as the qcf1+2 and qcb1 mixup goes did you even lab that? You can easy side step right qcb1 and then hold block for qcf1+2 and completely stop the mixup so if duck qcb1 and get hit by qcf1+2 then just start using this defence option instead and most bryan's will only use these two move to cover up the distance between the characters(you mid poke bryan out of qcb and qcf easily when close by). So I am not like disregarding your opinion's on where these two(kazuya and bryan) characters should land on the tier but atleastgive avalid reason for them being there. Personally bryan should be at the bottom of the S tier as his wall game is just straight up busted in the hands of a good bryan player and kazuya should be rightinfront of Reina instead of these two being considered better than lilli or ling.
@@renfujiara9696that is not what I said about Drag and Yoshi. My point with that is in response to people who say Yoshi can’t be top tier because we don’t see Yoshi mirror matches like we see Drag and my answer to that is for the people that want to *tier whore* they will gravitate to Drag over Yoshi because he’s easier and better. And it’s funny you bring up me labbing the Bryan situation when you mentioned your rank earlier and simply put the Bryan players I am playing are good enough to where the “labbing” isn’t good enough in actual practice. In theory, sure and I’m obviously aware of it but in an actual match against a *good* Bryan player it’s a different story. Also regarding they should be at the bottom of S, I would like you to read what it says underneath S on my tier list
@@K-Wiss okay yeah then that's my fault I thought you said that Yoshi is more timing and execution heavy than drag that's why drag is busted. I misunderstood your argument there and It seems you misunderstood my labbing remark I meant that with no harm i was just explaining why that qcb1 and qcf1+2 mixup sucks but it might have come across as me telling you to lab which i don't mean that at all. As far as ranks go man I am a tekken god rank bryan/mighty ruler jack player i meant no disrespect on your part because you will obviously play better than me, you play this game for a living so as I said earlier your opinion on the tier were very respectable, i just had a bugged out moment over the bryan and kazuya placement because this game has been pretty shit with its character shenanigans (some characters get away with murder and some characters get murdered in broad daylight and I just feel that lilli and ling are some of those characters that get away with murder so I kinda tripped out after seeing bryan and kazuya above them) My fault.
@@K-Wiss another thing though is it just me or tekken 8 has been making others more like character angry for some reason because i was not this angry about certain matchups in tekken 7 and I played that game for 4 years but I have been getting so frustrated over specific character matchups in rank lately that I even uninstalled the game 3 days ago and now only play offline with my friends on a daily basis and as you can see i am still frustrated over it for some reason 💀
Jin and hard to play basically can't be in the same sentence
I concur, Jin is your basic, easy, all rounder character. He can press buttons all Willy nilly in a lot of situations
The only way the words "araratemedi" and "smart" can appear together in a sentence is if the words "is not" is in between them.
It makes him easy to read. As soon as you know your opponent isn't lazy, you have a fight on your hands
@@fieclaussell9879 😹😹 making it personal won't make jin require a brain or somehow not be low tier buddy
@@jaleelkahn7032 yeah but under you're risking alot since D2 is not launchable , but it launches you on CH
you are the only person who rates eddy that high everyone else think he is trash but i also think he is better than tk7 at least his gimmicks are decent in this game
I originally didn't think he was fantastic but I spoke to Ulsan about him and he changed my mind a little bit
@@K-Wiss ulsan thinks he is good ??
most agreeable tier list around nice! a shaheen main agrees
Jun has b3 too lol why everyone ignores that, she has all Asuka busted moves like parries, canacans,f2 and she is fundamentally way better lol. She got that safe string pressure, keep out and pokes Asuka doesn’t have. I see zero sense playing Asuka in tekken 8 when you have just better version of her. Also Asukas d1+2 is launch punishable garbage low that often whiffs at the wall and has shit range, there are way better unseeable lows in this game, also db1 is -10 poke lol very good. The only point I agree with is naniwa gusto being strong
Jun has very glaring weaknesses once you know the matchup. Her being bottom 10 makes sense.
@@NoblesseSnake which one lol
You said lows got a lot worse , I'm thinking Kohei Ikeda just didn't like ducking
In the thumbnail i thought geese was next to Hworang 😂
Unpopular opinion: Kazuya is S+
*K-Wiss:* "Lidia, babe, I'm really sorry, buuuut..."
*Lidia:* "I'm bad in Tekken 8? It sucks, but you can be honest with me."
*K-Wiss:* "Oh, good. Yeah, you're kinda bad in Tekken 8, but I was actually going to say I broke your grandmother's vase-"
*Lidia:* "WHAT?!"
As a Raven player this is insulting lol. Raven is A! I’d like to see you play ShinobiKun904. You said you don’t understand Raven. Watch ShinobiKun904 play him.
20:59 Literally the most controversial thing here, Lee player loves down playing the Character to avoid nerf smh
Ok so what would you nerf about Lee then?
King's b1, 2 isn't really confirmable, you can't delay the second input that much. It's more like if you expect the counterhit you can confirm it, but more often you just have to let it rip.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up his heat smash, which is still pretty nonsensical
Pretty good tier list only thing i disagree with is steve honestly dont think hes really downplayed hes not trash yes but hes not that great imo he has it rough...
He's pretty middle of the road
Finally brooo someone had to say this about lee he's downplayed a lot for no reason he's busted in T8
2578 Conroy Extensions
Lmao this guy put Hworang in A tier
One of my main is in mid and the other two is in low tier lets gooooo
Tier list wrong my characters sucks everyone else broken
38:41 "Nooooo. But Mr. Streamer, he does have any good lows after the d3,4 nerf. He is just too risky for tournaments and he hasnts the tools other top tiers have"
Agree for the most part, except for Lee. He's not that high up and can't hang with that tier
The Lee downplay is real
Xiaoyu is not an S
@@Cal3000 You might be right. She’s probably S+ but I didn’t want to over estimate her
@@K-Wiss She's a solid B like every other Tekken. She doesn't have the results to show she's an S, especially from the 15k play pool. Surly there would have been at least one stand out. She struggles against half the cast also.
@@K-Wissbro you’re killing me 😂
Dawg just doesn’t know how to play against her so he put her in S. I respect it, but I as long I also know he’s mad wrong about his take on her. Should be way lower lol
@@Laz3y You said in another comment that you’re hardstuck Tekken King so I can say with absolute certainty that the Ling players I play against are miles better than you and actually know how to utilise the character and actual good Ling players like Changbang and Yoredz routinely talk about how bullshit the character can be. But again, it’s me just not knowing how to play against the character when there’s so much evidence of me beating the brakes off of the character at GoD. But who knows? Maybe the hardstuck Tekken King knows more than I do
Bro Successful clickbaited me With that thumbnail
Im here nowwww
KWISS I LOVE YOU, YOUR DREADS LOOK MAJESTIC AS ALWAYS
Kazuya s tier 🫨 beautiful 🥹
So many things wrong with this tier list just from the beginning of the vid, but still not the worst I’ve seen 😭
Wrong from the beginning? So you don't agree with even the Top 4?
@@K-Wiss mb I should’ve said like first 25min, but king not being s+, but shaheen is, Bryan being in s tier, and hwoarang being below s tier are the only problems I have, everything else can be debated tho.
@@Pond-aep I think Shaheen is definitely stronger than King even though I debated King in S+, King just has more defined weaknesses and a worse MU spread. I think Bryan is a clear S tier with how he limits your options when played optimally. Hwoarang simply does not fit in with the other characters at S tier while still strong, his weaknesses are more defined than the others in S tier
@@Pond-aep If you think Hwo is S tier you need to learn how to dick jab, side step and get out of orange ranks man
My biggest issue with everyone complaining about yoshimitsu. He’s had the same move list for years. The flash and spin are not new attacks. 11 isn’t new. They made him a good character and y’all hate it.
Yes? He was always a gimmicky character that broke the game but now he actually has the damage to make you pay
He's been allowed to have those attacks because they never made him a good character. Now he has good neutral tools, great heat application, good damage, good counterhits plus the preexisting spin that allows him to escape pressure in a game that enforces it and flash that makes the opponent have to play more passive in a game about aggression.
Huh? Except his gimmicks now rewards you with stupid high amount of damage,easy wall to wall carry, stupid oki on heat, and that dumb breath that will hit anything even if you are doing crush high attacks.
This is a nice list.
Biggest load of underplaying ones character I've ever seen
I thought Hwoarang df4 had the tracking property? People are stepping that??
Lee is good but above Shaheen is wild
Yh that would be a wild thing to see, did you see someone say that somewhere? I'd like to see it
lmao I can’t read
@@zach4281 yes you should learn how to read before using internet
Heihachi?
I lab that shit and I, legitimately, don't know what the fuck you do about Alisa's chainsaws.
It's funny that K-Wiss considers both of mains, Reina and Lili, as S-tier. I'm not saying they aren't very good, because they very much are. I am not an S-tier player, so their placement doesn't matter much for me. I'll still continue to say Reina's df2 should launch crouchers, or be safe. Being unsafe and not launching crouchers feels so dumb.
17:14 - 18:58 Just had to timestamp that because I felt it in my soul. Playing against a good Ling is painful, and I despise her backturn Heat Smash so fucking much. As for King, WHY is the best grappler in fighting games right now in the fighting game I play? Why? Just why?
Panda might be the most unfortunate character in this game. She's still mostly a Kuma clone, but the unique stuff Kuma gets is *SO* much better, that "pandas are cute" is the only reason to play her.
Im sorry but Kings ff n 2 should be -13 since it has no tracking at all. Meanwhile xiayou has a homing unreactable low sweep which guaranteed half lifes you and -13. jagur sprint is the worst stance in the game, since the mixup is between the dropkick and the elbow. Rko is reactable and its not true. Can get countered by lows and grabs and has no tracking. His heat smash might need gets tuned down, otherwise, stop downtalking my boi
Jack B-
Not good :(
As a Bryan main I say Bryan is the worse character in the game. He is very fun to play, but hard to win :).
0/10 tierlist Downplay your main NOW.
U honestly with a straight face think hworang is better than those characters in the s tier and s+ tier??😂😂😂 I'm honestly curious to hear which character up there he's better than tell me I'm all ears....😂😂
@@lestonclark2398hwo is better than the A tiers, so he belongs in S tier.
@@Rius9106 who up there hes better than tell me most he is, is at the top of A tell me who above him hes better than?? He can only replace someone above him
@@Rius9106 I mean you could make an argument for Hwo being high A Tier if you really want to. But can you honestly justify putting him right next to Feng, King, Claudio, Lili or god damn Xiaoyu ? Is Hwo better than the A Tiers ? Maybe, I dont think he is but alright. However he is not as outragous as the S Tiers in my book, so A Tier should suffice.
@@EddieMorphling so far a zafina putting in work steve , Jack hes right around that threshold...