But you can only use DLOG-M and HLG with H265... So how could you get 10 bit footage in H264? As you already mentioned, normal mode is 8 bit.. Or did you find some magic way to let DJI GO 4 app allow you to shoot HLG and DLOG-M with H264?
DLog is actually about maximizing the dynamic range, especially in the shadows. 4:2:0 subsampling is not fighting against this. I totally agree that you will not get any benefit from DLog with the scenes you've showed. Theres no point in having DLog activated all the time. However the interesting comparison would be if you can capture more dynamic range with DLog compared to normal style with contrast set to -3.
Good point! I was trying that out and my first tests led me to believe that you have less noise in the 10 Bit and some more dynamic range. But haven't had the time yet to test that thorougly. Since we do have quite often bright skies in our drone shots, the dynamic range you have - specially when it comes to highlights is so important.
can somebody enlighten me about this dlogs, are these kind of raw videos (i know why are used etc, bur stiil, i think this guy in video is correct)? i mean is there really any more information in dlog video file, which is nor related to basic shutter/iso settings etc?
Yes you're right about the Dlog is needed in post processing for color correction and color grading. Also Dlog is great for matching with other cameras with "flat" gamma. But is a proven fact that 8bit will easily fall apart in heavy grading and/or selective grading vs 10bit.
Yes,...you are right that 8bit can fall apart on heavy grading. It's NOT just the the bit depth that makes an image fall apart in grading, it's often the CODEC that "falls apart" first. Believe it or not but 8bit ProRes is reasonably bulletproof and can exibit LESS artifacts over a highly compressed 10bit CODEC. People often blame color banding 100% of the time on 8bit stair stepping. However many times it's cause by compression macro blocking! (especially shadow tones) A stressed CODEC will cluster chucks of image into single compression values. This HEVC is VERY highly compressed with a 10bit overhead.
@@clifftotten7609 thanks for clarification on the codec. Good to know! I wonder about micro blocking especially in the shadows.. so will the H265 help? Lately I have been working with h265, I hope I'm not wasting time, and if I am I will go back to h264. I would love you input on this, thanks
LoL What kind of dark magic do you use to record video with Mavic 2 Pro in H264 using DLOG-M or HLG because the drone only allows to choose that two profiles if you use H265. Using H264 codec you can only use NORMAL profile. 😂
I'm a complete newbie to this. And you said exactly what I was saying about post production. I was so proud of myself lol🤣🤣 It's like some people just have to make things difficult. I could see no difference in mavic pro 2 dlog post produced content when compared to 8 bit with just basic drone added highlights. With no s curves. Don't get me wrong, color grading looks fun to me(seriously..) but I still will not do it for every project. Thanks for your work on this.
Wow - very funny. You really should get your basics together before posting stuff like this. First: As many here already mentioned: On Mavic 2 you cannot even select DLOG-M if you did not switch to H.265 Codec. There is just no way to film in DLOG-M using H.264! Wonder how you achieved this but something seriously went wrong there on your side. As far as I know there is no camera out there that supports 10-bit recording in H.264 as the codec itself doesn't really support it. Second: H265 does provides a way better quality compared to H.264 at the same Bit Rate OR a smaller file size at comparable quality. In this case it's not about saving disk space as H.264 and H.265 both run at 100 Mbit/s when using Mavic 2. Your file sizes will be the same no matter if you film in H.264 or H.265 but H.265 provides way better quality (yes, that of course requires processing power when decoding)! So H.265 on Mavic has a better picture Quality. Period. Also 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 has nothing to do with the color depth. It's about the chroma subsampling. Two totally different things. Also filming in log profiles is required when you want to match different cameras in post and not only to get the absolute best picture Quality.
My GH5 records 10-bit 422 in H.264. Not saying you can on the Mavic 2, but I don't think it's accurate to say that H.264 doesn't support 10-bit. Other than that agree with all you have to say.
@@seencreative8114 Mavic 2 cannot record 10 bit video with H.264. Of course, H.264 can support 10 bit color as you mentioned, but Mavic 2 cannot perform it.
Dji just relised official LUT: D-logM to REC for Mavic 2 PRO. That makes it instantly almost the same as normal mode. Just ad a bit of blacks or contrast and it is already like normal mode. Just now your video don't fall apart when you're adding some creative Lut or tweak it if necessary as sometimes there is need to gain exposure or shadows. For lens correction there's also 1 klick job. The only downside is that it takes a lot time to do proxies and even more time to export/render. Although with out that official LUT release it was almost impossible to get similar as normal mode and your video is on point! Waiting for that pixel test. Also would like to know wich aperture is the clearest/best focus. I have had mixed results. Also can't fully trust that focus...
h.264 or h.265, use proxy!!! h.264 is not 10bit!!! Read about the codec! And shoot in HQ mode, all problems solved ! Easier to add saturation, sharpness, contrast than trying to take it out!!!
Dude I have written code in the past that makes use of the H264 standard and can tell you for a fact that it can support a sample bit depth of 8 bits right up to 14 bits, not sure if the Mavic uses it at anything other than 8 bits but the standard its self will go up to 14 bits and that's a fact.
I'm sorry to tell you that you are very much mistaken, 264 WILL work with a 10bit data stream if you use the right profile, I did say it would work with 14bits but I may be wrong there as its been a year or two that I had to code for this stuff, anyway my point is it will work with 10 bits just look up the Hi10P profile and you will see it there in black and white.
Well I can say for sure that it will if your hardware is up to it and your only sampling SD or HD video ,but must admit I cant say I ever pumped 4K into it so I'm not going to say it could or couldn't but that's not really my argument here, "The North" said "h.264 is not 10bit" but it can encode 10 bit data so I was just correcting his mistake.
Thanks guys! Very important information posted in this video. Looking forward for the comparison 4K HQ vs 4K FOV. My tests show a pretty much significant difference.
Thanks for the good information. I think that when you compare straight out of drone-video to fe. D-Log, it's like comparing jpg to raw in photography. D-Log (or raw) is soft and dull image that has to be processed before it's usable. But then you have much more data to work with and can achieve much higher quality if you know how to and push it to the limit. After a lot of testing, you have created your own LUT and you know all the steps to edit your footage, you can save it as a preset and it will be only one step in editing and then maybe just some minor tweaking. So... working with raw data takes it's time to get to know, but once you do, that's the way to go.
You are on point my man. I been testing a lot with the Mavic 2 Pro. At the end of the day, shooting in Normal profile is the way to go. I spend a lot of time color grading Dlog and at the end of it you only get close to what Normal profile gives. If there is a difference, I cannot spot it and if there is, it's very minimal and not worth the extra work. I record in Normal and just tweak it a bit in post and the footage is Amazing!!
H264 4K videos from the orignal mavic pro were already tough to play smoothly on my macbook, so I began to use proxies on premiere pro CC. No change for me with my brand new mavic 2 pro, just a longer time for ingesting files, but as soon they are, the workflow is just amazingly fast! Of course you can't enjoy your videos right off the drone to show it to your friends, but hey... when you shoot D-log M or any flat profile, you HAVE to color correct anyway, so that's it. I'll stick with H265 10 bits D-log M which is really nice to correct in post.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. As an "older" person getting reacquainted with all things digital, you have provided information that is soooooo helpful. After watching dozens of videos to "help" me understand and execute brilliant D-Log footage, I was frustrated when my highly upgraded iMac couldn't handle the footage. I created a proxy clip...and that worked, but, WTF? So, for now I will shoot normal with manual settings and work my own fucking magic. Thank you! And yes, as others have said, your labels may need to be fixed if you are interested in reposting. Or maybe you can just put that in your description.
Not sure why more aren't talking about the resolution of this sensor, or more so, the lack of resolution. You can find a great test on YT if you search, but it seems they're pixel binning in a most horrid way and the 1in sensor is pretty much giving similar results to the Zoom sensor and is way off what the current Phantom sensor resolves..
The simple answer on this is that dji/hasselblad do the color correct and compress the image on the normal profile and let to do that on post for the hlg and d-log, this means 2 things. 1-compress is not bad, is the option you choose to minimize the post production process when you have a client that need this (low budget for example) or you see your shoot and said, ok I have already my wb, color I want and I don't need more in post so you chose that profile. even if the images are raw you need to post process and color correct and finally compress and thats doesn't mean you lost quality. 2- about lose quality? 10 bit, or raw, or d log, do not more mean quality on the final image, is more freedom to be used on post to do more crazy things, but when you are done with that proces you compress in the best code you want and have the same quality but worked differently. for pros this means a lot, for persons how said hoo! 10 bit I need this in my life because is just more, well then you get your massive file 10 bit apply a lut and looks the same as the normal profile of the camera
Thanks, i found the same to be true on the Gh5...the 8bit 4k60 natural signal is just better than internal VLOG 4k60 8bit (mainly bec. 8bit). Good to know its the same on the drone!
From my experience the FOV mode looks better than HQ! To me the HQ just looks zoomed in and not as sharp! I've stuck mine on FOV 4k 24fps for the best Video Quality H.256 Normal Colour.
Why havn‘t you chosen high contrast scenes? It‘s true that there‘s no point filming in DLog as a default setting, but if you have certain problems to solve in terms of dynamic range, it can help.
DJI,...just give us the old trustworthy D-Cine on the Mavic-2 Pro. I'm not into an HEVC "main" profile CODEC....a "light" version of h.265. I would rather have a mild gamma curve in h.264 "high" profile in 8 bit instead of being FORCED into a super flat log curve in 10bit HEVC from sensors outputs that are not worthy of a flat log curve. DJI,...give is D-Cine now please!
I have to say I have been waiting for review like this. And I totally agree. I found out that the graded footage from Mavic Pro or Air or pro2 and footage from spark has best color/contrast and color separation - EVERY time when compared to other DJI Mavic . Air, and Mavic Pro 2 footage graded.
We Talk UAV Of course, I just think you'll see more of a difference with the 10 bit when you're pushing it more. Another interesting test would be with high contrast low light situations, sunsets for example. May not be huge, but either way it should be interesting content. Keep up the good work!
This is from someone who does not understand color grading. If you can't understand color grading and don't plan on learning then this could apply to you. If you want to actually get what the camera is capable of, this is useless. A much better comparison by someone who actually knows what he is talking about is here: th-cam.com/video/LAnygGzzeYA/w-d-xo.html. Basically, the much larger dynamic range captured by the 10bit colorspace not only allows for capturing much more challenging scenarios while still drawing out good results, it also allows for more creative freedom in what you can do artistically with the base footage. There really is no comparison in these two scenarios. For basic capture with good lighting (as mentioned in linked video) it is true you wouldn't need to use anything other than 8bit in many cases, but there is so much more you can do with 10bit *If you know what you are doing* as anyone who has done professional photography using RAW image formats can attest to.
DJI Manual says it supports 10-bit dlog-M or 10-bit HLG, Both of these modes are only available in h.265. Idk, thats just the official word from DJI. The video may be "packaged" as 10-bit, but not really actually be 10-bit. I just dont think h.264 can hold enough data for it. Also my PC has trouble playing back h.265 video as well, but I create proxies, enjoy the flexibility I have in grading the footage and then export in h.264. Edit: Final thing, I see you added a unsharpenning filter when editing. you dont need to do this with the m2p, its the 1st drone from dji that doesnt have that artificial sharpening added in-camera. All that being said, I do agree about HLG mode, Id say go either Dlog-m or normal.
Just use standard colour guys, it has the HNCS from Hasselblad so it’s already good colour. Maybe change settings for lower contrast to have a bit higher dynamic range or shoot in times that’s already not too contrasty
Good to notice that. But maybe you should record more contrasty scenes? Only there the potential of LOG/HLG will be revealed and the difference will be more noticeable
Thanks for the great information. I just received my zoom & pro 2. Have they done any firmware updates to correct this issue? I see this was done 4 months ago. Thanks
All you guys had to do is look at the product description on the website to find out which video settings recorded in 10-bit. You might lose a few followers here, but its a valiant effort to try and rectify your mistake.
The skipping of corrections applied by the drone in more computationally intensive modes is a good point and useful to know. However, to do an image quality comparison without maximising the information that can be obtained ie by not using the best codec at the highest available data rate is totally micky mouse. For your workflow etc great if you cannot be bothered with pro res proxies being rendered to work with but for a comparison of image quality it disadvantages the log footage that is attempting to hold more dynamic range. Log is a no brainer where 10 bit is available. I would only selectively use it on p4p however as banding issues with 8 bit are troublesome. Please give us best iq available when comparing iq for various modes!! Thanks
This was a smart move for the DJI to create a drone that offers us 10 bit colour versus 60P you can’t have both with the limitation on data throughput on the SD card. Yes. H265 codec with DLOG which is 10 bit colour offers billions of colours. It’s not for the normal guy, unless you know how to push colour properly. But HLG allows you to take that card or file in the M2P and pop it into a HLG compliant 4K HDR TV and see properly profiled HDR Video. So In summation I would rather own a Drone with a 10bit workflow such as the M2P versus an 8bit drone like the P4P with its 60p.
The M2P saves you from having to invest in an Inspire 2 with its X5S camera and CineSSD sticks and proRes licensing to get 10bit colour output for thousands of dollars less.
How are you recording D-LOG in h.264? I'm not able to select it or HLG when in h.264. Could that be discussed? Many of us, i'm sure, struggle with that problem.
I’m reading a lot of comments that I feel are missing the sentiment here. My take away from this video is that if you’re on a tight deadline and you’re not doing anything extreme with the color grade that “Normal” isn’t total garbage and can be used with confidence.
It looks like in- drone processing quality is finally good enough to live with and now I don't necessarily need to buy a faster computer. Let's hope that this process is carried forward into future products and is improved along the way to the point of. "shoot it and fuggedaboutit".
Before watching this video I was wondering if dlog is really worth it when you can get very decent shots by just using normal. Thanks for the video, now I won't bother trying so master dlog or hlg editing for this drone footage.
If you are not using the advance options why you paid almost $400 more compared with the zoom? You could very well purchase the zoom and be happy all around
It seems that what you are saying is ... if you are capturing video in excellent lighting and don't need to worry about dynamic range or low lighting, you would be better off in NORMAL mode and using H.264. If dynamic range or low lighting exist, and you want to get the best results, go with one of the two modes using H.265 which get 10-bit color.
So is DJI wrong? They straight up said you can only get 10 bit in h265. I’d love to be able to edit more smoothly if it meant taking up more memory. I have a 128gig card anyways.
Sorry for saying it again. There isn't - or not supposed to be - any 10-bit in H264. It's just not working in that codec, must be a mistake in the editing software. It's only on Dlog and HLG in H265. However, if you're right then well done. ;)
Exactly, I told him the same, it may be that in the factory firmware if it worked, I do not know, but in the current firmware does not allow it. I have tested on two metadata programs. you can not even choose d log or hlg in h264
Hi, Very informative video for someone like me considering whether to get the zoom or pro, I totally get what you are saying regarding image quality vs workflow effort but I would really like to see if there is a quality difference between 8bit and 10bit quality in low light situations as I believe that would be the real decider for me, I am edging towards the pro for low light situations at the mo
Look for a review that shows the difference that is mentioned below by Jason Sturgess 2 hours ago From my experience the FOV mode looks better than HQ! To me the HQ just looks zoomed in and not as sharp! I've stuck mine on FOV 4k 24fps for the best Video Quality H.256 Normal Color.
I do shoot video with my M2-Pro and want the best results that I can get, but I use it in my photography business and charge for the photos. The 20mp photos from 1" Sony sensor in .dng are much better than my original Mavic Pro. I haven't tried the M2 Zoom, but I consider the 1" sensor is a must for photos. I am not sure how much a larger sensor matters in video footage as 4K is only an 8MP shot verse 20MP photos. I am getting very nice photos that post-process well and don't break down as fast as the original MP did. In summary, not being a serious video shooter, I can't speak intelligently on the video side, but as a working Photographer, the M2-Pro is the better choice for photos.
Alex - GREAT VIDEO! Very important. DJI's implementation of H.264 AVC uses the "high" profile. This "high" profile contains 100% of all the h.264 encoding mathematics and toolsets. However!!!,...their implementation of h.265 HEVC is only "main" profile! "Main" profile is a "light" version of HEVC. It is a PARTIAL set of calculation tools. Much of the "2 times efficiency" comes inside that "high" profile toolset,....that DJI does NOT use! So,...DJI throws 10bit color, 40+ times the color space,..yet does NOT add even +1 megabit extra bandwidth and relies on a "light" version of HEVC to cover all that overhead. Not good.....no good.
Help me. I recorded video .mp4 4K 30 frs, H265, D-Log mode, can not import 4K video file to Adobe Premier cc 2018, have to convert to 1080p. i want to use original 4K video, can fix this? Thanks all
You're not going to see a difference unless you're pointing into a gradient such as the sun, or a sun set. 8 bit will cause banding where 10 bit will help. The 100mbps 10 bit of this drone probably isn't that significant though.
Very informative video. But guys that was a very bad scene for a comparison. You are professionals and know the biggest advantage of flat profiles with higher dynamic range. You might find that Iphone gives similar or even better results to a FF dslr in cirtain conditions.
Thank you for this great content. This is what I personaly expect from your channel, give us the most accurate information as possible. Cheers from Brazil.
You can see a difference, but not enough to make a big fuss about. Nonetheless, it does look a bit better. If camera quality is that important for your shoots, get an inspire
"If camera quality is that important for your shoots, get an inspire" - that is not a valid argument! Mavic 2 Pro is sold as "Hasselblad Iconic quality ... 4k and 10bit DLOG" which by default implies great video quality. In reality we get an "OK" 2.7k quality in a 4k resolution sold at 1900 USD (for combo). Packed with false advertising and pretty expensive for what it is worth. Yes it is cool to have all those sensors and bla bla to play with the first couple of flights.. after all what will be left in use it's flight time and mediocre video quality.
Hi mate, I can not see that info in VLC using windows, but if I use mediainfo (metadata program) , h264 is 8 bits and h265 10 bits, can you checkit too? thanks.
I think I have it ... do you have the latest firmware installed on your aircraft? I just tried with the latest firmware in 4k resolution with the h264 codec and I can not choose hlg or dlog, I can only activate it in h265, maybe you have the factory firmware version?
The Only Benefit from Dlog Is the Dynamic Range and you only benefit if you know how to Expose These Gamma Profiles correctly. So at These comparison you dont have much Dynamic range PS: sorry for my Bad english
So don't use an Apple POS or a Dell/HP. Build a real computer with RAID and sufficient memory and video hardware and you can process H.265. So bottom line you prefer 8bit in camera jpg quality crap vs learning how to actually post produce proper video? Well if all you do is TH-cam and Facebook where everyone is happy with mediocre I guess your conclusions are fine. Some of us prefer quality vs junk
Normal all the way for me.. my video post processing sucks and my steam powered computer can't handle that shit efficiently anyway, that's why I shoot in D-Cine with my Mav 1. Of course every gram of sense tells me to shoot in 1080 and then maybe my old version of Premiere Pro may be able to handle it, but why not eat up hard drive space with a WHOPPING great 4K file anyway right? :)
This has to be the biggest drone related fakenews video on youtube! 10 bit video is only available in h.265 HQ or FOV with D-LOG!!! If you do h.265 HQ or FOV in normal mode you get 8 bit video! And for the rest, it’s just nonsense
This vlogger clip becomes particularly funny when the guy gets pissed off and righteous, after looking at...the file metadata to prove his point, as if that's definitive proof. Hilarious! (He's still wrong anyway: H.264 simply isn't the benchmark for this drone. No one should even bother testing anything but H.265 anymore; it's the only format that can retain even a modicum of the potential image quality -- at the same bitrate, especially. The credibility of We Talk UAV as a technical authority is simply tanking with each new clip.
If everyone in the world was obsessed with "perfect image quality" you'd have a point. Most folks, however, are not into comparing pixels. They look at the overall video. Its why most people still watch 480 DVDs, own 1080HD televisions, & listen to consumer grade (or below) audio equipment. Only truly devoted audiophiles or videophiles obsess over ultra high quality.
No, not so fast, "Dirty Bird" - when you're shooting, for example, a highly detailed wide field of view with tons of fluttering leaves in thousands of trees, that's a case where H.264 absolutely falls apart into macroblocking, and actually looks much worse than even a well-mastered, well-shot 480p DVD in standard definition. H.265 offers substantial improvement in that situation and most others.
FocusPulling (.com) I concede that H.265 is a superior encoder, but it doesn't matter if the vast majority of current computers are reduced to a stutter while attempting playback.
Premiere Pro, among other NLEs, offers a nearly transparent proxy workflow. It's more elementary to use than most of Premiere's features, and there's no excuse not to use it (where the H.265 codec is absolutely essential in this context, end of story). I created th-cam.com/video/3H3v1OEAPlo/w-d-xo.html using proxies.
FocusPulling (.com) You have missed my original point completely. H.265 is essential to YOU & other videophiles who insist on ultimate quality. That does not describe the overwhelming majority of viewers. Most viewers don't zoom in on pixels & they won't watch a video that uses a codec resulting in stuttering playback. Its why most folks still buy DVD.
But you can only use DLOG-M and HLG with H265... So how could you get 10 bit footage in H264? As you already mentioned, normal mode is 8 bit.. Or did you find some magic way to let DJI GO 4 app allow you to shoot HLG and DLOG-M with H264?
DLog is actually about maximizing the dynamic range, especially in the shadows. 4:2:0 subsampling is not fighting against this. I totally agree that you will not get any benefit from DLog with the scenes you've showed. Theres no point in having DLog activated all the time. However the interesting comparison would be if you can capture more dynamic range with DLog compared to normal style with contrast set to -3.
Good point! I was trying that out and my first tests led me to believe that you have less noise in the 10 Bit and some more dynamic range. But haven't had the time yet to test that thorougly. Since we do have quite often bright skies in our drone shots, the dynamic range you have - specially when it comes to highlights is so important.
Good points made. Thanks!
can somebody enlighten me about this dlogs, are these kind of raw videos (i know why are used etc, bur stiil, i think this guy in video is correct)? i mean is there really any more information in dlog video file, which is nor related to basic shutter/iso settings etc?
Yes you're right about the Dlog is needed in post processing for color correction and color grading. Also Dlog is great for matching with other cameras with "flat" gamma. But is a proven fact that 8bit will easily fall apart in heavy grading and/or selective grading vs 10bit.
Yes,...you are right that 8bit can fall apart on heavy grading. It's NOT just the the bit depth that makes an image fall apart in grading, it's often the CODEC that "falls apart" first. Believe it or not but 8bit ProRes is reasonably bulletproof and can exibit LESS artifacts over a highly compressed 10bit CODEC. People often blame color banding 100% of the time on 8bit stair stepping. However many times it's cause by compression macro blocking! (especially shadow tones) A stressed CODEC will cluster chucks of image into single compression values. This HEVC is VERY highly compressed with a 10bit overhead.
@@clifftotten7609 thanks for clarification on the codec. Good to know! I wonder about micro blocking especially in the shadows.. so will the H265 help? Lately I have been working with h265, I hope I'm not wasting time, and if I am I will go back to h264. I would love you input on this, thanks
LoL What kind of dark magic do you use to record video with Mavic 2 Pro in H264 using DLOG-M or HLG because the drone only allows to choose that two profiles if you use H265. Using H264 codec you can only use NORMAL profile. 😂
Yeah I'm noticing the same issue.
Even I was wondering
They are just confused :)
He doesnt know what he is talking about.
I'm a complete newbie to this. And you said exactly what I was saying about post production. I was so proud of myself lol🤣🤣 It's like some people just have to make things difficult. I could see no difference in mavic pro 2 dlog post produced content when compared to 8 bit with just basic drone added highlights. With no s curves. Don't get me wrong, color grading looks fun to me(seriously..) but I still will not do it for every project. Thanks for your work on this.
there u go :)!
Wow - very funny. You really should get your basics together before posting stuff like this. First: As many here already mentioned: On Mavic 2 you cannot even select DLOG-M if you did not switch to H.265 Codec. There is just no way to film in DLOG-M using H.264! Wonder how you achieved this but something seriously went wrong there on your side. As far as I know there is no camera out there that supports 10-bit recording in H.264 as the codec itself doesn't really support it. Second: H265 does provides a way better quality compared to H.264 at the same Bit Rate OR a smaller file size at comparable quality. In this case it's not about saving disk space as H.264 and H.265 both run at 100 Mbit/s when using Mavic 2. Your file sizes will be the same no matter if you film in H.264 or H.265 but H.265 provides way better quality (yes, that of course requires processing power when decoding)! So H.265 on Mavic has a better picture Quality. Period. Also 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 has nothing to do with the color depth. It's about the chroma subsampling. Two totally different things. Also filming in log profiles is required when you want to match different cameras in post and not only to get the absolute best picture Quality.
My GH5 records 10-bit 422 in H.264. Not saying you can on the Mavic 2, but I don't think it's accurate to say that H.264 doesn't support 10-bit. Other than that agree with all you have to say.
Michael M 100% agree!
How do I get my footage of the drone in that mode at full 4k. When I use h265 it won’t download original to my phone only a 1080p version 👍
@@seencreative8114 Mavic 2 cannot record 10 bit video with H.264. Of course, H.264 can support 10 bit color as you mentioned, but Mavic 2 cannot perform it.
Dji just relised official LUT: D-logM to REC for Mavic 2 PRO. That makes it instantly almost the same as normal mode. Just ad a bit of blacks or contrast and it is already like normal mode. Just now your video don't fall apart when you're adding some creative Lut or tweak it if necessary as sometimes there is need to gain exposure or shadows. For lens correction there's also 1 klick job. The only downside is that it takes a lot time to do proxies and even more time to export/render. Although with out that official LUT release it was almost impossible to get similar as normal mode and your video is on point! Waiting for that pixel test. Also would like to know wich aperture is the clearest/best focus. I have had mixed results. Also can't fully trust that focus...
@@Built05STI we.tl/b-Vpxebeizfu 🤙
Hey man, you should test DLOG performance by comparing an image in which there are a lot of highlights and shadows. Test for high dynamic range.
h.264 or h.265, use proxy!!! h.264 is not 10bit!!! Read about the codec! And shoot in HQ mode, all problems solved ! Easier to add saturation, sharpness, contrast than trying to take it out!!!
Dude I have written code in the past that makes use of the H264 standard and can tell you for a fact that it can support a sample bit depth of 8 bits right up to 14 bits, not sure if the Mavic uses it at anything other than 8 bits but the standard its self will go up to 14 bits and that's a fact.
you have written a code is far different from a code available in sw and for the general public. The standard h264 goes to 8bit
I'm sorry to tell you that you are very much mistaken, 264 WILL work with a 10bit data stream if you use the right profile, I did say it would work with 14bits but I may be wrong there as its been a year or two that I had to code for this stuff, anyway my point is it will work with 10 bits just look up the Hi10P profile and you will see it there in black and white.
@@3dmaxuser h.264 can support 10bit at 200mb/s but I doubt it can at 100.
Well I can say for sure that it will if your hardware is up to it and your only sampling SD or HD video ,but must admit I cant say I ever pumped 4K into it so I'm not going to say it could or couldn't but that's not really my argument here, "The North" said "h.264 is not 10bit" but it can encode 10 bit data so I was just correcting his mistake.
Thanks guys! Very important information posted in this video. Looking forward for the comparison 4K HQ vs 4K FOV. My tests show a pretty much significant difference.
Thanks for the good information.
I think that when you compare straight out of drone-video to fe. D-Log, it's like comparing jpg to raw in photography. D-Log (or raw) is soft and dull image that has to be processed before it's usable. But then you have much more data to work with and can achieve much higher quality if you know how to and push it to the limit.
After a lot of testing, you have created your own LUT and you know all the steps to edit your footage, you can save it as a preset and it will be only one step in editing and then maybe just some minor tweaking.
So... working with raw data takes it's time to get to know, but once you do, that's the way to go.
You are on point my man. I been testing a lot with the Mavic 2 Pro. At the end of the day, shooting in Normal profile is the way to go. I spend a lot of time color grading Dlog and at the end of it you only get close to what Normal profile gives. If there is a difference, I cannot spot it and if there is, it's very minimal and not worth the extra work. I record in Normal and just tweak it a bit in post and the footage is Amazing!!
I Film in normal, touch up my saturation & vibrance. That's it!
Check out the day and night footage in my last vlog with Billy Kyle on my channel!
Well said Alex, finally someone who thinks different.. less is more! Too many people focus on the technique instead the content..
well said :)
Yea it seems like there's a lot of defensive posturing about "my professional process" instead of the best outcome regardless of how one gets there.
H264 4K videos from the orignal mavic pro were already tough to play smoothly on my macbook, so I began to use proxies on premiere pro CC. No change for me with my brand new mavic 2 pro, just a longer time for ingesting files, but as soon they are, the workflow is just amazingly fast! Of course you can't enjoy your videos right off the drone to show it to your friends, but hey... when you shoot D-log M or any flat profile, you HAVE to color correct anyway, so that's it. I'll stick with H265 10 bits D-log M which is really nice to correct in post.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. As an "older" person getting reacquainted with all things digital, you have provided information that is soooooo helpful. After watching dozens of videos to "help" me understand and execute brilliant D-Log footage, I was frustrated when my highly upgraded iMac couldn't handle the footage. I created a proxy clip...and that worked, but, WTF? So, for now I will shoot normal with manual settings and work my own fucking magic. Thank you! And yes, as others have said, your labels may need to be fixed if you are interested in reposting. Or maybe you can just put that in your description.
Not sure why more aren't talking about the resolution of this sensor, or more so, the lack of resolution. You can find a great test on YT if you search, but it seems they're pixel binning in a most horrid way and the 1in sensor is pretty much giving similar results to the Zoom sensor and is way off what the current Phantom sensor resolves..
Agree with using proxies for ease of editing, but in FCPX 10.4.3 the proxy workflow is just a liddel bit broken.
The simple answer on this is that dji/hasselblad do the color correct and compress the image on the normal profile and let to do that on post for the hlg and d-log, this means 2 things.
1-compress is not bad, is the option you choose to minimize the post production process when you have a client that need this (low budget for example) or you see your shoot and said, ok I have already my wb, color I want and I don't need more in post so you chose that profile.
even if the images are raw you need to post process and color correct and finally compress and thats doesn't mean you lost quality.
2- about lose quality? 10 bit, or raw, or d log, do not more mean quality on the final image, is more freedom to be used on post to do more crazy things, but when you are done with that proces you compress in the best code you want and have the same quality but worked differently. for pros this means a lot, for persons how said hoo! 10 bit I need this in my life because is just more, well then you get your massive file 10 bit apply a lut and looks the same as the normal profile of the camera
Thanks, i found the same to be true on the Gh5...the 8bit 4k60 natural signal is just better than internal VLOG 4k60 8bit (mainly bec. 8bit). Good to know its the same on the drone!
From my experience the FOV mode looks better than HQ! To me the HQ just looks zoomed in and not as sharp! I've stuck mine on FOV 4k 24fps for the best Video Quality H.256 Normal Colour.
Why havn‘t you chosen high contrast scenes? It‘s true that there‘s no point filming in DLog as a default setting, but if you have certain problems to solve in terms of dynamic range, it can help.
DJI,...just give us the old trustworthy D-Cine on the Mavic-2 Pro. I'm not into an HEVC "main" profile CODEC....a "light" version of h.265. I would rather have a mild gamma curve in h.264 "high" profile in 8 bit instead of being FORCED into a super flat log curve in 10bit HEVC from sensors outputs that are not worthy of a flat log curve. DJI,...give is D-Cine now please!
I have to say I have been waiting for review like this. And I totally agree. I found out that the graded footage from Mavic Pro or Air or pro2 and footage from spark has best color/contrast and color separation - EVERY time when compared to other DJI Mavic . Air, and Mavic Pro 2 footage graded.
Actually test the files by grading them, not just correcting them to look the same.
Ok will do. Vid was about having same final output
We Talk UAV Of course, I just think you'll see more of a difference with the 10 bit when you're pushing it more. Another interesting test would be with high contrast low light situations, sunsets for example. May not be huge, but either way it should be interesting content. Keep up the good work!
This is from someone who does not understand color grading. If you can't understand color grading and don't plan on learning then this could apply to you. If you want to actually get what the camera is capable of, this is useless. A much better comparison by someone who actually knows what he is talking about is here: th-cam.com/video/LAnygGzzeYA/w-d-xo.html. Basically, the much larger dynamic range captured by the 10bit colorspace not only allows for capturing much more challenging scenarios while still drawing out good results, it also allows for more creative freedom in what you can do artistically with the base footage. There really is no comparison in these two scenarios. For basic capture with good lighting (as mentioned in linked video) it is true you wouldn't need to use anything other than 8bit in many cases, but there is so much more you can do with 10bit *If you know what you are doing* as anyone who has done professional photography using RAW image formats can attest to.
nice video helps me a lot of my new mavic 2 pro thanks bro
thank u for watching!
DJI Manual says it supports 10-bit dlog-M or 10-bit HLG, Both of these modes are only available in h.265. Idk, thats just the official word from DJI.
The video may be "packaged" as 10-bit, but not really actually be 10-bit. I just dont think h.264 can hold enough data for it.
Also my PC has trouble playing back h.265 video as well, but I create proxies, enjoy the flexibility I have in grading the footage and then export in h.264.
Edit: Final thing, I see you added a unsharpenning filter when editing. you dont need to do this with the m2p, its the 1st drone from dji that doesnt have that artificial sharpening added in-camera.
All that being said, I do agree about HLG mode, Id say go either Dlog-m or normal.
Just use standard colour guys, it has the HNCS from Hasselblad so it’s already good colour. Maybe change settings for lower contrast to have a bit higher dynamic range or shoot in times that’s already not too contrasty
Good to notice that. But maybe you should record more contrasty scenes? Only there the potential of LOG/HLG will be revealed and the difference will be more noticeable
Do the same test in low light, or at night, I think we will see a difference.
H265 doesn't compress your footage by 2 time, it means that for the same bitrate (100mb/s) you get twice the quality.
you've mentioned a guide to read in the description but I can't find the guide link that explains about learning!
Thank you for the great video. You got it straight to the point.
Thanks for the great information. I just received my zoom & pro 2. Have they done any firmware updates to correct this issue? I see this was done 4 months ago. Thanks
How are you shooting in DLOG-M or HLG using h264? The only color mode I can pick is normal.
All you guys had to do is look at the product description on the website to find out which video settings recorded in 10-bit. You might lose a few followers here, but its a valiant effort to try and rectify your mistake.
The skipping of corrections applied by the drone in more computationally intensive modes is a good point and useful to know. However, to do an image quality comparison without maximising the information that can be obtained ie by not using the best codec at the highest available data rate is totally micky mouse. For your workflow etc great if you cannot be bothered with pro res proxies being rendered to work with but for a comparison of image quality it disadvantages the log footage that is attempting to hold more dynamic range. Log is a no brainer where 10 bit is available. I would only selectively use it on p4p however as banding issues with 8 bit are troublesome. Please give us best iq available when comparing iq for various modes!! Thanks
This was a smart move for the DJI to create a drone that offers us 10 bit colour versus 60P you can’t have both with the limitation on data throughput on the SD card. Yes. H265 codec with DLOG which is 10 bit colour offers billions of colours. It’s not for the normal guy, unless you know how to push colour properly. But HLG allows you to take that card or file in the M2P and pop it into a HLG compliant 4K HDR TV and see properly profiled HDR Video.
So In summation I would rather own a Drone with a 10bit workflow such as the M2P versus an 8bit drone like the P4P with its 60p.
The M2P saves you from having to invest in an Inspire 2 with its X5S camera and CineSSD sticks and proRes licensing to get 10bit colour output for thousands of dollars less.
I agree with you 110%
Thanks for sharing this!
How are you recording D-LOG in h.264? I'm not able to select it or HLG when in h.264. Could that be discussed? Many of us, i'm sure, struggle with that problem.
great job explaining everything, Enjoyed watching. :)
Thank you :)
I’m reading a lot of comments that I feel are missing the sentiment here. My take away from this video is that if you’re on a tight deadline and you’re not doing anything extreme with the color grade that “Normal” isn’t total garbage and can be used with confidence.
Great comparison and information. I fully agree with you. Cheers DrDuu
It looks like in- drone processing quality is finally good enough to live with and now I don't necessarily need to buy a faster computer. Let's hope that this process is carried forward into future products and is improved along the way to the point of. "shoot it and fuggedaboutit".
My first video was in 4K 10 bit HLG and I’m fortunate enoght to have a tv that plays it. All I can say is it was amazing. Straight from the card.
Before watching this video I was wondering if dlog is really worth it when you can get very decent shots by just using normal. Thanks for the video, now I won't bother trying so master dlog or hlg editing for this drone footage.
DJI just released a free M2 LUT that brings DLog into a normal look with 1 click.
If you are not using the advance options why you paid almost $400 more compared with the zoom? You could very well purchase the zoom and be happy all around
Hi. Great vid, thanks! Please note, there are some sound issues @8min...anyway, keep rocking!
It seems that what you are saying is ... if you are capturing video in excellent lighting and don't need to worry about dynamic range or low lighting, you would be better off in NORMAL mode and using H.264. If dynamic range or low lighting exist, and you want to get the best results, go with one of the two modes using H.265 which get 10-bit color.
Interesting. No analysis of dynamic range though which is supposedly greater in DLOG/HLG 10-bit.
So is DJI wrong? They straight up said you can only get 10 bit in h265. I’d love to be able to edit more smoothly if it meant taking up more memory. I have a 128gig card anyways.
AMÉN Brother! Being yelling about this in every DJI forum there is...
Keep doing!
You nailed it..👍🤗 thank you....
Sorry for saying it again. There isn't - or not supposed to be - any 10-bit in H264. It's just not working in that codec, must be a mistake in the editing software. It's only on Dlog and HLG in H265. However, if you're right then well done. ;)
Exactly, I told him the same, it may be that in the factory firmware if it worked, I do not know, but in the current firmware does not allow it. I have tested on two metadata programs.
you can not even choose d log or hlg in h264
Strange as many of you are saying. Will ask :)
Hi, Very informative video for someone like me considering whether to get the zoom or pro, I totally get what you are saying regarding image quality vs workflow effort but I would really like to see if there is a quality difference between 8bit and 10bit quality in low light situations as I believe that would be the real decider for me, I am edging towards the pro for low light situations at the mo
Look for a review that shows the difference that is mentioned below by
Jason Sturgess
2 hours ago
From my experience the FOV mode looks better than HQ! To me the HQ just looks zoomed in and not as sharp! I've stuck mine on FOV 4k 24fps for the best Video Quality H.256 Normal Color.
I just found a good comparison video!!
th-cam.com/video/GpweQVMuXbQ/w-d-xo.html
VERY INTERESTING!!!
I do shoot video with my M2-Pro and want the best results that I can get, but I use it in my photography business and charge for the photos. The 20mp photos from 1" Sony sensor in .dng are much better than my original Mavic Pro. I haven't tried the M2 Zoom, but I consider the 1" sensor is a must for photos. I am not sure how much a larger sensor matters in video footage as 4K is only an 8MP shot verse 20MP photos. I am getting very nice photos that post-process well and don't break down as fast as the original MP did. In summary, not being a serious video shooter, I can't speak intelligently on the video side, but as a working Photographer, the M2-Pro is the better choice for photos.
I can't shoot DLOG and HLG in H.264! Is there a workaround?
Good points made! Thanks!
Alex - GREAT VIDEO! Very important. DJI's implementation of H.264 AVC uses the "high" profile. This "high" profile contains 100% of all the h.264 encoding mathematics and toolsets. However!!!,...their implementation of h.265 HEVC is only "main" profile! "Main" profile is a "light" version of HEVC. It is a PARTIAL set of calculation tools. Much of the "2 times efficiency" comes inside that "high" profile toolset,....that DJI does NOT use! So,...DJI throws 10bit color, 40+ times the color space,..yet does NOT add even +1 megabit extra bandwidth and relies on a "light" version of HEVC to cover all that overhead. Not good.....no good.
@Lon Denard - Yup,...I do know.
Help me. I recorded video .mp4 4K 30 frs, H265, D-Log mode, can not import 4K video file to Adobe Premier cc 2018, have to convert to 1080p. i want to use original 4K video, can fix this? Thanks all
Very good explanation...keep it up!!
Very great man 👍👌😊
You're not going to see a difference unless you're pointing into a gradient such as the sun, or a sun set. 8 bit will cause banding where 10 bit will help. The 100mbps 10 bit of this drone probably isn't that significant though.
Also my computer can run H.265 just fine ;)
Very informative video. But guys that was a very bad scene for a comparison. You are professionals and know the biggest advantage of flat profiles with higher dynamic range.
You might find that Iphone gives similar or even better results to a FF dslr in cirtain conditions.
Thank you for this great content. This is what I personaly expect from your channel, give us the most accurate information as possible. Cheers from Brazil.
NASA has mostly very old computers...
Do you edit the footage using proxies? The videos are so slow in my macbook pro lol
At (coincidentally) 4:22 in this video you promise a link in the description that explains 4:2:2 vs. 4:2:0 but it’s not included in the description.
Bill Smith Lookup chroma subsampling on Google.
You can see a difference, but not enough to make a big fuss about. Nonetheless, it does look a bit better. If camera quality is that important for your shoots, get an inspire
"If camera quality is that important for your shoots, get an inspire" - that is not a valid argument! Mavic 2 Pro is sold as "Hasselblad Iconic quality ... 4k and 10bit DLOG" which by default implies great video quality. In reality we get an "OK" 2.7k quality in a 4k resolution sold at 1900 USD (for combo). Packed with false advertising and pretty expensive for what it is worth. Yes it is cool to have all those sensors and bla bla to play with the first couple of flights.. after all what will be left in use it's flight time and mediocre video quality.
@@na6alnikeneme I cannot argue with that. You are correct.
Good job !!!
Hi mate, I can not see that info in VLC using windows, but if I use mediainfo (metadata program) , h264 is 8 bits and h265 10 bits, can you checkit too?
thanks.
I´m testing other metadata software , Nectar, and the same result h264 is 8 bits and h265 10 bits, I`m confused
I think I have it ... do you have the latest firmware installed on your aircraft? I just tried with the latest firmware in 4k resolution with the h264 codec and I can not choose hlg or dlog, I can only activate it in h265, maybe you have the factory firmware version?
@@sergiofrailegarcia3929 will check it
Great video
Whats up with the sound?
The Only Benefit from Dlog Is the Dynamic Range and you only benefit if you know how to Expose These Gamma Profiles correctly. So at These comparison you dont have much Dynamic range
PS: sorry for my Bad english
Generally you have to work with proxy files, if you don't have a "nasa computer".
Great Upload. You saved me a lot of headaches!
Very interesting video....
I just loved ur so technical video ....hell yeah !! Subscribed !! Cheers from India . Could you do the same for mavic pro 1 for normal and dlog ??
Why does the Zoom have H.265 for that "good for nothing" old and small sensor? 😜
Dr One DrOne small sensor is still good in day, the zoom gives a much different perspective
@@WyvernApalis I own a Zoom... I like
Like your attitude
Thanks for creating this excellent video!
So don't use an Apple POS or a Dell/HP. Build a real computer with RAID and sufficient memory and video hardware and you can process H.265. So bottom line you prefer 8bit in camera jpg quality crap vs learning how to actually post produce proper video? Well if all you do is TH-cam and Facebook where everyone is happy with mediocre I guess your conclusions are fine. Some of us prefer quality vs junk
more please, yes
Normal all the way for me.. my video post processing sucks and my steam powered computer can't handle that shit efficiently anyway, that's why I shoot in D-Cine with my Mav 1. Of course every gram of sense tells me to shoot in 1080 and then maybe my old version of Premiere Pro may be able to handle it, but why not eat up hard drive space with a WHOPPING great 4K file anyway right? :)
This has to be the biggest drone related fakenews video on youtube! 10 bit video is only available in h.265 HQ or FOV with D-LOG!!! If you do h.265 HQ or FOV in normal mode you get 8 bit video! And for the rest, it’s just nonsense
Retina display? Isnt that Apple? Am I lost? ☺️
nice compare...
Alex you are the @#$% Man bro :-) Thanks for saving me all the aggravation dude! You are the best in the business......
This vlogger clip becomes particularly funny when the guy gets pissed off and righteous, after looking at...the file metadata to prove his point, as if that's definitive proof. Hilarious! (He's still wrong anyway: H.264 simply isn't the benchmark for this drone. No one should even bother testing anything but H.265 anymore; it's the only format that can retain even a modicum of the potential image quality -- at the same bitrate, especially.
The credibility of We Talk UAV as a technical authority is simply tanking with each new clip.
If everyone in the world was obsessed with "perfect image quality" you'd have a point. Most folks, however, are not into comparing pixels. They look at the overall video. Its why most people still watch 480 DVDs, own 1080HD televisions, & listen to consumer grade (or below) audio equipment. Only truly devoted audiophiles or videophiles obsess over ultra high quality.
No, not so fast, "Dirty Bird" - when you're shooting, for example, a highly detailed wide field of view with tons of fluttering leaves in thousands of trees, that's a case where H.264 absolutely falls apart into macroblocking, and actually looks much worse than even a well-mastered, well-shot 480p DVD in standard definition. H.265 offers substantial improvement in that situation and most others.
FocusPulling (.com) I concede that H.265 is a superior encoder, but it doesn't matter if the vast majority of current computers are reduced to a stutter while attempting playback.
Premiere Pro, among other NLEs, offers a nearly transparent proxy workflow. It's more elementary to use than most of Premiere's features, and there's no excuse not to use it (where the H.265 codec is absolutely essential in this context, end of story). I created th-cam.com/video/3H3v1OEAPlo/w-d-xo.html using proxies.
FocusPulling (.com) You have missed my original point completely. H.265 is essential to YOU & other videophiles who insist on ultimate quality. That does not describe the overwhelming majority of viewers. Most viewers don't zoom in on pixels & they won't watch a video that uses a codec resulting in stuttering playback. Its why most folks still buy DVD.
Proxy ?
I am from Indonesia🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩
Hello psycho master !
No more d-log for me ... thx!
Do you come from amerika😊
hilal falsten I think he is in east, southeast or south europe.
Germany
@@RobeOmag yas😃
@@teemu1893 yas good 👍
New Drone Pilot here! Thanks for clearing the debate I have engaged with fellow friends. Check out SoSerious First Flight.
Jeeezz... that was some mic snafu... you should've reshoot this, it sounds very unprofessional
Keep it up Say your mind its a free world
Dude, your arrogance will cause people to unsubscribe. There are better ways to tackle haters, just saying. fix your attitude.
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