It often annoys people when these words are used, but it's so practical because you can actually have someone describe to you the sound of a setup, and I can deduct from that whether I'd like it or not. And it's the same with food, if someone says food is spicy, you still don't know how it tastes, but you know in which direction it's going. Same with wines or whiskeys where they say it tastes 'smokey' or 'turf' or 'acid'. Same with a car being 'wallowy' or 'pointed'. It just all makes sense once you start digging deep.
You are absolutely correct in your description. When one is trying to develop a system, the sound stage, is most sought after. When you achieve depth in your sound stage, you have achieved
Sorry, I hit a wrong digit.... you have achieved all that can be had, and then the quality of that sound is the next demention. If you have both, you have everything that is possible within the constraints of your pocket book. Cheers
Well guys, all kidding aside, I do have the system, and I paid for it all with cash. No cliffhangers here. I have sound stage, depth, and the power. If you don't have it, then socks to be you. Cheers
Audio jargon PS Audio style: "the speakers will be released and ready for purchase at the end of 2019" Actually means, "maybe sometime in 2021 or 2022"
The subject takes me back to another time. Like putting up drapes where is no window for sound canceling. So far back when the speaker magnet was an electromagnet. Transistor was just someone's passing thought Nice set by the way
By the way, in my experience small(ish) speakers, especially stand-mounts - do the disappearing act much easier than large ones. That of course in the context of the usual living room environment, not a larger than 'normal' space.
Speaker placement, room size and where you sit is what determines if your speakers are going to disappear, the physical size of the speaker is irrelevant.
What Div doesn't know is that Paul has owned several Magnepans, loves Magnepan speakers, and has even called Maggies one of the best values in high-end audio.
Just like my golf practice, it's helpful to rehearse the fundamentals. Thanks Paul , I need more improvement on sound staging and the 3D hologram . ;-))
Take a bunch of post-it notes and write the names of the instruments on them. Then when you listen walk over and throw down the postits where you hear them. Leave them there then go back and try it the next day and see if it's the same. I'll bet most listeners will find differences.
Look up the 4 part video series by Joe and Tell and Erin’s Audio Corner. They do a back and forth on list of these terms. Don’t be ashamed that you don’t understand them all. I’ve been doing this for 7, 8, maybe 9 years and the meaning and context of some still baffle me
I once had someone ask me what a caper tasted like. I couldn't come up with anything--it tastes like a caper. Trying to describe something that has to be experienced is difficult to impossible. We do the best we can.
The ability to describe sound characteristics can be compared with the ability to describe the taste of wine. It is also a valuable skill for audiophile TH-camrs because the alternative of recording a HiFi installation and then sending it trough the internet to be listened to on a completely different HiFi installation is obviously never going to work.
Hi Paul, great explanation. I have been using these words for years, but probably only just learnt precisely what they mean! By the way, exactly how far are your IRSV speakers from the rear wall of the listening room?
It's certainly not easy to get into what all these words mean, especially since not all people use every word exactly the same. It's pretty necessary to have these words though since we're describing something that's not commonly talked about and we need to express ourselves efficiently. Using these kind of words is also easier than making up new ones. The audiophile word I like the least to describe gear is "musical". I think musicality is all in how something is composed and played so I think it's a poor word to use to describe sound quality. I think it's further established by seeing how often musicians aren't into audiophile gear.
"If you've ever wondered what terms like holographic, 3D, soundstaging, transparency, mean when it comes to audio, Paul explains it all." No, he didn't "explain it all", at all. It'd be good if there was some sort of tutorial video with examples along with standard explanations to help people get a basis for the obvious subjective experience that is audio appreciation.
Thanks, easily explained. So, to follow on, which part of the system is mostly responsible for or has bigger impact on imaging, dynamics, warmth/transparency?
Looks about right to me. They appear more like 5 - 6 feet apart... what's important is the distance off sidewalls, then establishing listening distance. There's essentially one ideal placement location for loudspeakers, and one ideal listening location... for every room. Room modes (resonances) are fixed and determined by room dimensions. Which resonances are excited is determined by speaker placement. Which resonances are heard is determined by listener location. Btw; That room is 𝙨𝙘𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙢𝙞𝙣𝙜 for treatment ...
Because non-audiophiles do not use audiophile jargon, we audiophiles know which people are not like us; we are, then, able to treat them accordingly. " Slew rate, slew rate; we don't need no stinking slew rate"!
The speaker's distance off their adjacent boundary that helps facilitate dimensionality of the soundstage. Lack of early reflections enables the recorded content to be launch and be experienced as intact as possible. That said, the room needs significant treatment imo.
@@FOH3663 Thanks. I was only wondering cause Mr. McGowan had said a soundstage should be between and importantly behind the speakers and from the pics it looks like there is 4-5 feet at BEST between those immensely wide speakers.
Recently while listening to my IEM, a thought occurred to me that in music, there are instruments, vocals, drums, guitars, etc. It feels so real but then again all we're actually hearing is vibrating membrane on a magnet that replicates all of those sound. And from a tiny speaker too. And at that point, i feel like a person from a bygone era hearing analog music for the first time, they must've had their mind blown too
Bit of an irony in that the speakers that best produce these said things are designed with very objective concepts. The only reason we do have speakers that can actually reproduce sound now is via things like measurements, research, and extensive computer modelling.
Yes, in a STUDIO recording OR a multimicrophone orchestral capture, the engineer put those musicians there! This, with their MONOPHONIC microphones and many channels as they 'create' the illusion. Only a TRUE STEREO RECORDING can give you ACTUAL placement of the instruments in time and space because it is REAL and not manipulated via a mixing desk with added effects and such. Lets just start there. Most everything we listen to from the studio is not really stereo at all. Yes Paul, I say again, your beloved recordings from Davis Hall are NOT true stereo, but a mixture of MONO channels 'blended' by the engineers to create an 'artifical' image. Yup, I am going to harp on this continually so everyone understands the differences between electronically mixed recordings and recordings with only TWO channels. When will Octave Records be up to the task? I await..........
It is all subjective, 'snake oil' as it also depends on ones hearing which deteriorates with age. A millionaire in their 60's purchasing a million dollar system will be convinced its sound is worth every cent, yet many sounds are inaudible.
Does a good hi-fi give you a boner Paul lol I would say the subwoofer too far out I put them close to the sidewalls. You getting boundary reflection close to the side will you get boundary reinforcement I might even go to the extent of turning them around 180° have them about 6-10 inches from the wall
No such thing as sound stage, it's made up by the brain. It's certainly not as it was recorded. Nine times out of ten in a recording studio, everything is recorded separately and then all joined together.
DO a video. for someone who whants to step up from EARpods to a small room listening experience. Lets say starting at 500$, than 2000$ and 10000$. (so speakers + amplifier + receiver All in ) I have my earPODs and my NEw flat. So what to do??? just save until i have 6000$ for just a preamp?? Please. help us peanut eaters here
It often annoys people when these words are used, but it's so practical because you can actually have someone describe to you the sound of a setup, and I can deduct from that whether I'd like it or not. And it's the same with food, if someone says food is spicy, you still don't know how it tastes, but you know in which direction it's going. Same with wines or whiskeys where they say it tastes 'smokey' or 'turf' or 'acid'. Same with a car being 'wallowy' or 'pointed'. It just all makes sense once you start digging deep.
I experienced the best sound stage when I was stoned.
Stoned Stage
who threw stones at you? you're dad?
Listening to the Rolling Stoneds I assume?
The experience is so subjective, one must hear themself in order to really understand. Paul's on point still.
You are absolutely correct in your description. When one is trying to develop a system, the sound stage, is most sought after. When you achieve depth in your sound stage, you have achieved
Sorry, I hit a wrong digit.... you have achieved all that can be had, and then the quality of that sound is the next demention. If you have both, you have everything that is possible within the constraints of your pocket book. Cheers
@@kengevers8738 was afraid of the cliffhanger and one week wait for the next episode
Well guys, all kidding aside, I do have the system, and I paid for it all with cash. No cliffhangers here.
I have sound stage, depth, and the power. If you don't have it, then socks to be you. Cheers
You have to see it to see it. You have to hear it, to hear it. It's so hard to describe sound with words.
Audio jargon PS Audio style: "the speakers will be released and ready for purchase at the end of 2019"
Actually means, "maybe sometime in 2021 or 2022"
The subject takes me back to another time. Like putting up drapes where is no window for sound canceling. So far back when the speaker magnet was an electromagnet. Transistor was just someone's passing thought
Nice set by the way
By the way, in my experience small(ish) speakers, especially stand-mounts - do the disappearing act much easier than large ones.
That of course in the context of the usual living room environment, not a larger than 'normal' space.
Speaker placement, room size and where you sit is what determines if your speakers are going to disappear, the physical size of the speaker is irrelevant.
What Paul doesn't tell you is that Magnepan 20.7s would kick the shit out of his ancient Infinity.
What Div doesn't know is that Paul has owned several Magnepans, loves Magnepan speakers, and has even called Maggies one of the best values in high-end audio.
Paul it is all that warpness , is the very thing that makes you so interesting as a person.
the easiest way to look at it all is that if your minds eye sees the scene ,then the speakers are doing a great job..
Sound stages, imaging, holographic, resonances, transparent, people look at me funny when I try to describe my system to them.
Just like my golf practice, it's helpful to rehearse the fundamentals. Thanks Paul , I need more improvement on sound staging and the 3D hologram . ;-))
Take a bunch of post-it notes and write the names of the instruments on them. Then when you listen walk over and throw down the postits where you hear them. Leave them there then go back and try it the next day and see if it's the same. I'll bet most listeners will find differences.
Always useful Paul. Thankyou..👍
are the trees real or artificial? Talking about dynamics should also cover compression and its pros and cons.
Look up the 4 part video series by Joe and Tell and Erin’s Audio Corner. They do a back and forth on list of these terms. Don’t be ashamed that you don’t understand them all. I’ve been doing this for 7, 8, maybe 9 years and the meaning and context of some still baffle me
All terms one is likely to hear in a description of Bose Acoustimass?
I want that PS Audio rug.😄
I once had someone ask me what a caper tasted like. I couldn't come up with anything--it tastes like a caper. Trying to describe something that has to be experienced is difficult to impossible. We do the best we can.
The ability to describe sound characteristics can be compared with the ability to describe the taste of wine. It is also a valuable skill for audiophile TH-camrs because the alternative of recording a HiFi installation and then sending it trough the internet to be listened to on a completely different HiFi installation is obviously never going to work.
Hi Paul, great explanation. I have been using these words for years, but probably only just learnt precisely what they mean! By the way, exactly how far are your IRSV speakers from the rear wall of the listening room?
Thank you, that really helps
It's certainly not easy to get into what all these words mean, especially since not all people use every word exactly the same. It's pretty necessary to have these words though since we're describing something that's not commonly talked about and we need to express ourselves efficiently. Using these kind of words is also easier than making up new ones.
The audiophile word I like the least to describe gear is "musical". I think musicality is all in how something is composed and played so I think it's a poor word to use to describe sound quality. I think it's further established by seeing how often musicians aren't into audiophile gear.
"If you've ever wondered what terms like holographic, 3D, soundstaging, transparency, mean when it comes to audio, Paul explains it all."
No, he didn't "explain it all", at all.
It'd be good if there was some sort of tutorial video with examples along with standard explanations to help people get a basis for the obvious subjective experience that is audio appreciation.
youre new to the PS audio channel arent you? :p
@@johnpoo1662 not really.
Thanks, easily explained. So, to follow on, which part of the system is mostly responsible for or has bigger impact on imaging, dynamics, warmth/transparency?
Great explanation...thx
Anybody know if those subs are open baffle? Just curious
Nope, monopole.
The sound stage of Mauler works like JAWS is very scary when swimming. LOL!
Them speakers are only 4 ft apart , not a very wide sound stage , I’d love to hear them , would they not sound better in a bigger room
Looks about right to me.
They appear more like 5 - 6 feet apart... what's important is the distance off sidewalls, then establishing listening distance.
There's essentially one ideal placement location for loudspeakers, and one ideal listening location... for every room.
Room modes (resonances) are fixed and determined by room dimensions.
Which resonances are excited is determined by speaker placement.
Which resonances are heard is determined by listener location.
Btw;
That room is 𝙨𝙘𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙢𝙞𝙣𝙜 for treatment ...
@@FOH3663 how can you hear behind them when there 4ft wide and taking up half the width of the room
@@Ricky-cl5bu
Diffraction Reflection
For example, regardless where Paul is back behind those speakers you'll still hear him spinnin' a yarn.
Because non-audiophiles do not use audiophile jargon, we audiophiles know which people are not like us; we are, then, able to treat them accordingly. " Slew rate, slew rate; we don't need no stinking slew rate"!
How do you get a soundstage there when the speakers are so close to each other.
Go and visit them and find out for your self.
@@hugobloemers4425 I would love to but I can’t that’s why I’m asking !
The speaker's distance off their adjacent boundary that helps facilitate dimensionality of the soundstage.
Lack of early reflections enables the recorded content to be launch and be experienced as intact as possible.
That said, the room needs significant treatment imo.
@@FOH3663 Thanks. I was only wondering cause Mr. McGowan had said a soundstage should be between and importantly behind the speakers and from the pics it looks like there is 4-5 feet at BEST between those immensely wide speakers.
Recently while listening to my IEM, a thought occurred to me that in music, there are instruments, vocals, drums, guitars, etc. It feels so real but then again all we're actually hearing is vibrating membrane on a magnet that replicates all of those sound. And from a tiny speaker too. And at that point, i feel like a person from a bygone era hearing analog music for the first time, they must've had their mind blown too
Which speakers are these?
Infinity IRS V dipoles, w/monopole bass towers.
I have learned the meanings of those terms slowly and with effort over many years.
Everyone else should have to do the same.
those specific locations didn't exist when the recording was made
tis all an illusion
You speak truly, sir.
Bit of an irony in that the speakers that best produce these said things are designed with very objective concepts. The only reason we do have speakers that can actually reproduce sound now is via things like measurements, research, and extensive computer modelling.
Yes, in a STUDIO recording OR a multimicrophone orchestral capture, the engineer put those musicians there! This, with their MONOPHONIC microphones and many channels as they 'create' the illusion.
Only a TRUE STEREO RECORDING can give you ACTUAL placement of the instruments in time and space because it is REAL and not manipulated via a mixing desk with added effects and such. Lets just start there. Most everything we listen to from the studio is not really stereo at all.
Yes Paul, I say again, your beloved recordings from Davis Hall are NOT true stereo, but a mixture of MONO channels 'blended' by the engineers to create an 'artifical' image.
Yup, I am going to harp on this continually so everyone understands the differences between electronically mixed recordings and recordings with only TWO channels.
When will Octave Records be up to the task? I await..........
Bass Slap 🤤
It is all subjective, 'snake oil' as it also depends on ones hearing which deteriorates with age. A millionaire in their 60's purchasing a million dollar system will be convinced its sound is worth every cent, yet many sounds are inaudible.
Just Googled and first article - October 13, 2017 by Paul McGowan
Does a good hi-fi give you a boner Paul lol
I would say the subwoofer too far out I put them close to the sidewalls. You getting boundary reflection close to the side will you get boundary reinforcement
I might even go to the extent of turning them around 180° have them about 6-10 inches from the wall
No such thing as sound stage, it's made up by the brain. It's certainly not as it was recorded. Nine times out of ten in a recording studio, everything is recorded separately and then all joined together.
DO a video. for someone who whants to step up from EARpods to a small room listening experience. Lets say starting at 500$, than 2000$ and 10000$. (so speakers + amplifier + receiver All in )
I have my earPODs and my NEw flat. So what to do??? just save until i have 6000$ for just a preamp?? Please. help us peanut eaters here
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