This Arrangement Rule Will Change Your Music
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
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The reason heavy repetition works in genres such as house music or rap is because a good producer is constantly bringing in or taking out elements in the mix so that the listener stays engaged.
True. For dance music, the repetition (and long song length) also helps DJs bring songs in and take songs out smoothly.
The reason it works for dance music is because people don't actively listen to dance music. It's made for dancing, not thoughtful listening.
@@mgregory22 a lot of people listen to it while driving too. Which makes sense because one isn’t fully focused on music while driving. I listen to it while programming computer software. Makes sense that the listener is not fully engaged.
@@mgregory22 Or perhaps some people feel rhythmic variation through layering and timbre variation through automation to be equally as satisfying as melodic variation and therefore don't find the music to be too repetitive in the first place. That's how I am with things, but I also produce techno so my relationship with dance music goes way beyond just that.
Yeah. The melody and chords may remain the same, but the sound structure of the song changes. Different types of music tend to use slightly different methods. For example, an EDM song with too many different chord or melody changes would sound "wrong" in some way. But the rule of three can be applied here as well: for example, two verses are identical and for the third one a different synthesizer sound with the same chord progression. However, the brain needs a little change along the way to stay awake.
Introduce a theme, use it just twice. Add another theme. Reintroduce the initial theme later, with a twist / bigger….it’s just natural. It works.
So it’s very similar to a fugue
Makes me think of an AABA structure in jazz
@@thecelloguy4412very similar to many types of music. Not just fugues
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
Repetition with variation
Repeating ideas can be beneficial if the context around it is changes. I feel like trap, hip hop, and Jazz all utilize repetition in one area ( drums , bass line, chord progressions) but with the improvisation over these repetitive elements helps to make a nice balance of both
This is exactly what I thought
Break it down. Well said!
And then electronic music throws in mixdown effects for the variation. The otherwise very repetitive thing gets put through something like a pitch shift or cutoff filter to add the new element aspect to it.
Exactly, a chord progression is often used as a simple base were any diferent instruments, arrangements and melodies can be hapening along it.
I don't think trap and modern hip-hop and "nice balance" can honestly be mentioned in the same sentence
When I started producing , I made super complex melodies without any repetitions, then I learned about making simpler melodies which I then repeated too much, now I naturally do what you point out in this video. After 2 repetitions I naturally feel like something different must follow.
I feel like this is where I am at right now. I used to love making crazy complex melodies and recently I've been experimenting with simpler stuff.
But I make complex and simple Melodies 🎉😂
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
The time has come. You must meditate upon your choices. 222 ❤
@@highestpeeqs9532 can he hop on my beat though
I think there's a 3rd option which is in arrangement. Chords and melody can remain the same so long as you're dropping in a new beat/texture/harmony etc.
The lyrics are important too. You'll follow them.
Agreed. Or new instruments. Hence Bolero. Though some people hate the repetition in Bolero.
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
I have just seen this video and you for the first time. (Liked and subscribed). I am British and my father, Lewis Warburton, was an arranger in the pop industry in the 1960’s and 1970’s. He was actually the top arranger in the UK during that time and if you look up his list of songs he worked on it was massive. He told me about the rule of three decades ago, so you are correct. I hope you read this. Cheers.
so I looked it up and wow my hat off to him. How are your arranging skills? I'm sure amazing. I hope you and ur family stay blessed and safe.
And I just saw it fam…
Can i get some links? TH-cam gave me a minecraft channel when i searched for Lewis Warburton….. thanks!
Very interesting, my surname is the same, lots of relatives from barrow in Furness, i always wondered about the bread making as family, interesting to find a link to the music I love, cheers Warbo ..👍🏻
@@BlackMirrorDesignerI don’t think you should of thanked him
Been using this for a long time without knowing it ! But one day, one of my teachers in college gave a whole 3 hours class about how repetition was perceived in music from the 17th century to nowadays. He started the class playing the first bar of Mozart's 16th sonata for piano in C major on repeat for five litteral minutes. He didn't even say a word and just looked at us with an absurdly wide smile the whole time. After 5 minutes, he stood up and said "Let's talk about repetition". Absolute genius.
And most of the class was about that rule 👌
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
@@highestpeeqs9532so does the Easter bunny
I do this subconsciously. With my melodies, I find myself wanting to change the third time cause it just feels right. But thank you for analyzing it for me and allowing me to understand the science behind this!
@ghost mall depends on what comes after, if the melody is a chorus, by the fourth one you should be ending it, so it takes you back to the 1st one but it' got a different ending, if not then I would say go back. it's a balance of having the melody stay consistent but not sounding to repetitive, it's about getting that melody stuck in their head but still introducing new ideas to keep them listening
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
Actually never thought hard about this, but almost subcontiously i always change up the third round, and have the 4th go back to the same as 1 and 2. Its a really neat and beautiful "trick"
AABA isn't it?
There's no reason to 'think hard' about it. It's pretty obvious - two cream cakes, yum yum. By the third, you wish you hadn't. Random: 99 Red Balloons is aextremely annoying because the extremely annoying phrase '99 red balloons' is repeat over and over.
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
I started writing my first songs in the 1980s on my MIDI sequencer and synth. With a sequencer or computer, it's very easy to fall into the trap of repeating something four times before moving on to something new, or composing by repeating something and then layering more parts on it after a couple of repeats to make the song build. And composing that way works for some genres, but it's not good rock or pop songwriting.
The next step is writing a melody, and usually you come up with a call and response, so you have A and B. You want four lines for a verse so you repeat that and have ABAB. That worked in "Peaceful Easy Feeling" but if you write every song that way, they can be monotonous. ABCA or ABCB or ABAC melodies, which is essentially what's being shown here, are much more effective. I totally agree that good songwriting is not some instinct or some mystery that only gifted people can grasp. It's putting good. often not very complicated writing techniques to use.
The key word there is Intention, as you said. If it's your intention, over-repeat. IMO, the main goal in a songwriting is to give purpose to the elements, not just stacking musical ideas.
Cool stuff. Musical psychology. Another I like is introducing a partial theme, sound or motif in the intro to pre-register it with the listener. I like the way the news is formatted. Tell them what you're going to tell them. Now tell them. Finally, tell them what you told them.
Great point. A lot of songs use the chorus vocal as a synth/piano/guitar intro to embed it in the listener's mind.
Nice analogy actually 👌
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
I like how this concept can apply to literally anything in life. For example, there is a guy I work with that likes to tell stories…you get where this is going? So naturally after so many times of hearing his same stories over and over again, we all just tune him out.
This is great. The 2/3 pattern is sort of the same format as a typical joke. The first 2 times set up a pattern and expectation. Your brain thinks it's got it figured out. But the third breaks the expectation in an expected clever way. And this can cause physical laughter when done well. Great video!
Change it up every eight beats. That’s what my guitar teacher taught me when improvising a solo.
That ‘changing the idea slightly on the third repetition’ idea is GENIUS! There is so much flexibility there and it really gets my songwriting wheels turning. Thanks for the great video as always!
Hey Nathan, I've been pointing this rule out so many times, it's almost the golden secret of songwriting success. Mozart did this a lot BTW. In Eric Beall's book "The Billboard Guide to Writing and Producing sings that sell." I found this interview with Tor Erik Hermansen (part of STARGATE) where he talks about a quote from George Martin (the legendary producer of the Beatles.) I'm gonna copy this small part of the book here because it's a gold nugget. On page 196 TOR says: "Melodies that work have a lot in common. I saw an interview once with Sir George Martin. He was saying that, for some reason, all of the best pop songs have two repetitive lines in the beginning of the chorus, then a climax, then a resolution. I was like, "You gotta be crazy." Then I started to listen to different, big songs, and I realized, "He's right." You could easily find a lot of exceptions. But I looked at the songs we (Stargate) did that worked, and it dawned on me that they had the same formula." End fragment of the book. Keep up the great video's!
Bro this chorus melody structure makes so much sense! Thanks for sharing, I took some notes (pun intended)
Name some songs that does this. I would like to see.
Yeah a few examples would be awesome.
thank you for sharing this really do thank you and i will go do the rest of the work and look it up.
@@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69 Just off the top of my head, "Get Back" by the Beatles and "We Can't Stop" by Miley Cyrus
I've been writing like this since I was a teenager, and just didn't know what it was called. Music is so amazingly universal.
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
I really am learning so much from your incredible videos, over the last few days I’ve watched around 20 of them. Incredible content. Once I’ve concreted the concepts I’ll be sure to buy some of your content to help me further.
I’m just a 34 year old dad who’s written music on and off since I was 16 and simply doing it for the love of music but I love the feeling of honing a craft
I am actually learning something from this, thanks Nathan. I love this arrangement rule so far, it has taken my music from point A to B quicker than ever.
This is an excellent video -- solid tips from start to finish. You make a great point about intentionality when composing; too often I find myself guilty of starting a song with a progression, bass line and melody and then just strumming or arpeggiating a chord voicing to pad out the harmony without *actually thinking* how that's going to affect how the song is received, or if that arrangement is really conveying what the song is all about.
The rule of three is everywhere and so powerful. Public speaking, framing a picture, decorating, the preacher's three-point sermon, poetry... No wonder it applies in music! Thanks Nathan for bringing it to our attention in this context.
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
This is so helpful! Several of these things discussed I've experienced intuitively. However, to watch you go through it in detail like this is very enlightening. Thank you.
Really interesting idea. I’ve never thought about it like that before and it’s definitely something I’ll be implementing when I’m writing music from now on. Thanks for posting this.
more of these please! more arrangement/songwriting! this is fireeeeee
Great video... you must add that every rule has an exception. Also it is a very genre oriented. The rule of three is utilized in many art forms. I think that the most important thing is to get inspired and write your heart on a piece of paper. Having said that your video is fantastic and the analogy with a conversation and delivering a concept to someone is very correct in my opinion 🙏🏻 keep up your good work 🤘🏻
Great lesson man! Keeping the inspiration going Nathan
This is why I try to make variations both in the drums and the melody each 8 bars and sometimes repeat it back later on.
I did this intuitively but its good to know there is a rule for that.
When it is repeated at a different timeframe as a bgm in a movie it can be played in a different octave or using a different tonal instrumental which helps to reinforce a particular mood which the listener can relate to
Your demonstration piano piece sounded like an intro. Those types of intros are so common, you could set your watch to it (a watch is a clock you can wear on your wrist that used to require frequent tuning). I noticed that classical music repeats a line/melody/motif only twice and consistently twice.. until it doesn't. It's pretty clever how they do that.
Great info Nathan. You make the point simple and easy to understand, that's what I like about your videos. Like the shirt too 🤘😎🎶
beginner here, i had kind of a revelation when watching your first melody example, you accompanied your right hand melody notes with note from its chord. that gave something to follow and experiment with that had some kind of logic easy to grasp
Rock solid advice here and nice video to boot. I think too on extremely subtle levels too excellent producers follow this rule. For instance I watched one guy saturate a random pattern of snares differently for an o so subtle unexpected sizzle that you can hear if you listen for it. But the argument was that even if the listener isn’t conscious of it, their ear is and they find it inexplicably more pleasing and worthy of their attention. This advice also applies in classical music, I rarely if ever see the same exact idea repeated, even in ABA compositions. Ravels Bolero is an exception, but even there the timbre is always changing and the dynamics always evolving. So your the rule you discuss here is iron clad even in areas beyond arrangement.
I now realize that I've been doing this naturally, but never really thought about it as a subject. Neat! When I come up with a passage, I only play that way once or twice, but then I change things up, and it doesn't lose its interest.
This is the first time I've heard this explanation, and I think it's quite valid for pop music in the 20th & 21st centuries. That said, you mention some who have succeeded even when intentionally 'breaking' that rule. One example that came to my mind almost immediately is JS Bach, who over 300 years ago, wrote the Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor. He took an 8-bar motif and repeated it 21 times, each time making a variation of some sort. But the theme was clear throughout. The 21st variation was turned into a brilliant double fugue. It is considered by many to be one of Bach's best organ works.
Thanks for your presentation, although I did find your super-fast speaking speed a bit hard to absorb. Good luck to you.
Never seen your channel before. This "Rule of Three" idea is great. Having done it for years without knowing it, it's good to know both why, and how to do it better. One comment. I was having a little trouble keeping up with you. I slowed the video down to .75, and though just a tad too slow, I could follow more readily. See if you notice the difference. Thanks for the tip!
Nathan, your explanation was precisely what I need to hear for the song I'm working on. I was feeling too much repetition. " There must be some kinda way outa here ... " Thanks
Thanks for the great tips Nathan!
This is fantastic. Thanks Nathan. I use this instinctively to develop my sounds.
Super cool info. I never noticed this before but as soon as you pointed it out I heard it in like the next 5 songs I listened to. definitely going to apply it to my playing and writing.
Brilliant. It's so amazing how there is more to music than just the technical music skills.
I've heard this basic idea as "call-and-response" but this really fleshes out. Great video!
I wanted to let you know that I found this video to be incredibly informative. It’s one thing to try and help people understand in a context where they say “Yeah. I get it” …. But to create an intriguing piece of vital information that RESONATES with a human is a complete other. Considering your proclaimed passion for music and making GOOD music, specifically, this is genuinely felt throughout the vibe in this video and to see genuine love and adoration for the vibrations in which change molecules & atoms within humans, is truly amazing. So… Thank you. 🙏🏼
Question: how were the old producers in the 80s and 90s able to create life lasting hit records?
Jesus loves yall and died for us! Jesus calls for all of us to repent!
@@highestpeeqs9532Seriously, go be with Jesus alone. No one is here to be preached at. People like you are why I loathe Christianity
This video is exactly what I needed to hear, helps so much now that I know. Thanks 🙏
Awesome video fam! Simple but strong advice!
You are right. Thank you for sharing with us. Also, I would add that people like hearing themes/topics. Like in classical music, as we listened in highschool, I noticed it applies to other genres. Basically, you are listening to a melody, that's a theme/topic "a", then when the melody changes, that's a theme/topic "b". Then when you add, for example, a bridge, you are creating the theme/topic "c". So, the song can basically be: a, b, a, b, c, b. That is: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus. By changing themes/topics, you "tease" the listeners attention and they are continuing to be intrigued by what you are offering musically, but also, they feel connected with the melody that they heard already, or that you even slightly modified (the second and third time the same chorus). So cool, right?! 🙂
That's a great explanation.
@@davidpetersonharvey Thank you for your comment. I appreciate.
Excellent Idea for great composing!
Thank you!
...this is one of the best arranging advice ever!!! respect
A rule a live by in production is something my teachers call the 7-14 rule. Basically, if you repeat an idea, you have 7 to 14 seconds to try and make it different, whether it’s in instrumentation, harmonics, rhythm, etc.. I’ve found that following this makes repetition a lot more bearable, even going past 10 times for short phrases.
GREAT video! I read this in a book about song writing as well called "The Addiction Formula" Great to see a video about one of the principles!!
I was listening to the Starcraft 1 song Terran 3 earlier tonight; I realized the buildup part with the guitar that plays a pedal point follows this rule to the letter!
I have a track that I think I did everything right on except for the lead because of over-repetition. Can't thank you enough for this video because that track means a lot to me and now I can fix it with these tips
This is sooo good, thank you for sharing this!!
This is an issue I'd been picking at with my creation lately but I didn't know it was a thing called rule of 3.
This helps a lot!
hi Nathan, this is the exact information I needed at this exact moment. thanks
This video single handedly fixed my music. Well... from here on out anyway. Thank you.
This is a great angle to tackle this successful vibe, nicely made ✌️
As usual, great video, Nathan.
Wow thank you! I needed this! I really didn’t know about this, I thought it was just people trying to be creative, but it now makes sense. The best songs I have liked or my favorite songs always came with a surprise, or something sounding different. And it kept me interested. Now am off to rewrite/rearrange my songs to make them interesting
Excellent concept to keep in mind, and a challenging question making modern music. What is the most effective novelty/repetition ratio? There's also now infinite ways to create novelty outside of traditional composition. Modern listeners tend crave brute harmonic repetition more than anything. It tends to be aesthetics, dynamics and production that provide main the novelty + contrast. I think of a song like Smells Like Teen Spirit. Four chords the whole time except for the end of each chorus. Novelty doesn't come from the composition as much as it does from radical dynamic contrast and vocal expression.
Most helpful video I've stumble on in awhile.
Wow I do this intuitively I never thought what went behind me acyually varying my melodies in certain places. Thanks for the video!
Well said, Nathan! Thank you… having actual listeners, viewers, readers etc.
is an amazing privilege that we shouldn't squander. Bore them, and they may
never return. Surprise them and respect their intelligence, and they just might
give you a rewarding career :)
most creative pursuits seem to have SOME sort of rule of 3. (rising action/climax/falling action in stories; interior decor has triads of focal points; middle/foreground/background in visual art...) so any time I try a new creative project, regardless the medium, I have some idea of structural framework to play with. abstract relationship
3 guys walk into a bar…😊😊
Kudos on your northern spot! Many more will come. I'm most surprised that you do so well with your teaching as you don't list much for experience. I guess knowledge is the key. Must of had some great guidance. All the best!
Great content, super simple and to the point! & Definitely on point thanks Sir.
Hell of an advice, I really need that. Thank man
I love to use repetition in my sound healing ambient pieces to actually allow the brain to tune out and allow the body to relax and regenerate 😌
This sounded like a joke lol
Real helpful videos man thank you
Great song writing tip. I sometimes get a good riff and then get stuck for where to go. Thank you.
I hadn't consciously thought about this, but it explains why I like 12 bar loops. 4 bars + same 4 bars + variation
Really good stuff again Nathan
woah. This is so eye opening for songwriting! Thank you so much for this!!! :)
You have demonstrated an even more important principle - setting up expectations then deviating from them. This creates surprise
This was absolutely incredible advice 🔥
Super super useful tip. Thanks so much 👏
nice. cant wait to try it out tomorrow. thanks bud!
A very critical piece of advice. Thanks!
Insanely smart knowledge thank you man!
Great wisdom man!
Great advice!! 🙌🏻🙌🏻
Honestly this melody is so symmetrical (the rhythm, the repeated note in the same spot, the skip step, then step skip the 2nd time). I wanted it to vary by the second repetition because that actually felt like the 3rd and 4th time I heard the same idea. Anyone else feel that?
It's a good melody for benginners, as well, a sign that the melody is good for making a lot of variations out of it. Also feel the same.
Excellent explanation and insight . Thank you
Very solid advice. Thanks 👍
One of the best tutorials Ive seen on the topic.
Nice! It's kind of like point and counterpoint. Question-answer! Great ideas!!!
Good video! Thanks for this info.. love it
A real neurological fact, very well described. We're always trying to find the line between the familiar & unexpected, comforting & disconcerting aren't we...
Very good insights, thanks for sharing!
Thank you for your lesson. It's really awesome
Gracias Nathan!
Thank you for video man... very helpful
Great tips Nathan
Love your videos bro
Great video. Thanks for the tips 👏
Nice, dude. Thanks for this lesson.
I’ve actually unknowingly noticed this when analyzing other artists intros and trying to replicate this interesting concept indeed
This is absolutely brilliant advice, really this is absolutely brilliant advice, this will be utilised in my next piece of music I write.
1. Ive watched probably more 10000 videos on music production, but this one is the most distinct among all of them. And i really mean it.
2. But, this what u r explaining is art more than a trick or technique. Hence it can't be learnt, but can be developed over a thousand times of practice.
3. I realised that i was doing this unknowingly.
4. Nathan, U r a gud soul, bcoz this info is smthing which no one wud like to share as it is that secret formula which no one wud like to share untill he isnt that "insecure" "self centered" "cunning" human being.
4. I respect u for ur efforts to share these untold, uncommon tips of music production which no one wud share for selfish reasons. U r doing a charity.
😊❤️🤘 Best wishes from my side
3.
Agree, cool comment! And a wonderful vid.