I am amazed. I only heard of cap packs a few months ago. I’ve watched several TH-cam videos. I’ve “commented” each time basically asking “what do they do?” & “how might they improve performance of the specific vehicle I have?”. Most of me “comments” remain unaddressed. Others completely confused me. One reply NOW makes sense to me...”eliminates ripple”. After you video, I now understand what was referred to as ripple. One of the questions I asked repeatedly was how would a cap pack improve the performance of the X01 I am currently working on. I did get one answer...the X01 doesn’t need one. I could only guess one reason. While I was curious what the 3 drums were wired into the ESC, I couldn’t identify them from the parts list or the exploded views. Now I know they are a cap pack. While I do have a few other questions, I don’t want to go on & on here, but here’s one. Will replacing the cap pack that TRAXXAS seems to have “snuck in” with a superior one (ie yours) improve the performance of my 6S X01? Great job! THANKS!
The XO-1 ships with a version of the Castle Mamba Monster 2 ESC with custom Traxxas firmware. The MM2 was capable of delivering at least 200-300A in short burst, but few people know exactly how many it will do because this generation ESCs lacked data logging. This sounds like a lot, but this ESC did not contain very much internal capacitance to fight ripple voltage, which is why Castle and Traxxas added the external Cap Pack to better protect this ESC. While the combo worked well, Castle continued to improve their Mamba Monster ESC with the Mamba Monster X (which had a more sophisticated "brain" and added data logging) and then Mamba Monster X-8S (which has a brand new 8S-capable internal architecture and performs on par with the older Mamba XL2 and XLX 8S ESCs) While the MM2 is a still a good ESC, it is an old architecture now and about 2-3 generations behind the latest Castle ESCs in overall performance, power delivery, overall smoothness, and ripple suppression. I believe the Traxxas firmware in the OEM ESCs limits the output, so you should not be able to exceed the capabilities of the stock Cap Pack. However, the Mamba Monster 2 Retro from Castle has all the power suppression removed and is a direct replacement for the stock ESC. If you decide to upgrade to that, you should definitely jump to a higher capacity cap pack to protect it. That ESC will happily deliver enough power to destroy itself if you aren't careful setting it up. Still, If you want to get the most out of your stock XO-1setup, I'd suggest moving up to the MMX-8S, just for the data logging and increased smoothness. It's internal architecture is so good that you may not even need an external cap pack running on 6S (but adding one definitely won't hurt).
I have to confess while I almost ordered the MMX-8S...went as far as to put it in my cart, but I am very intimidated regarding my ability to do the replacement of the stock X01 ESC. While I don’t doubt it will be the best upgrade I could do, I think I would screw it up...too many wires! Thanks for your advice. Perhaps with a little more experience I will venture to make the change.
I don’t even know what data logs are lol. Is that if you run an aftermarket transmitter that you can check your data? I wouldn’t even know what to look for in the data lol. Thanks for your response
Castle's higher end ESCs have an internal "black box" that records a ton of information that you can review to help tune your rig and make sure the ESC is running in a safe regime. It's really cool tech.
You do these type of videos really well man!! Try making and selling some glitch busters from 10V caps. They're easy and dirt cheap to make and you could sell them for decent markup. Hoping I could request you do a vid creating an ultracapacitor pack using 8x2.7V 10f or 25F Maxwell or Nesscap Electrolytic Double layer ultracapacitor units in series. I've made a 4S and a 6S unit but can't find the time to make a video myself showing these and how they work. I like to connect the standard electrolytic caps close to the ESC but I use these as battery boosters for my really low C rate batteries.Let me know if you need instructions or anything.
If you don't mind me asking, what is the board called that the capacitors attach to when making a cap pack? I've googled "circuit board" , "capacitor strip", and have had no luck. After blowing my CC XL2 I'm planning to take major precautions after I replace the capacitors in my esc.
Just order one of my 10S capable units. Save yourself some time and trouble. ;-) You can finde them in my ebay listings at www.ebay.com/usr/rhouse21 I buy "project boards" and cut them to size.
Hi, how do I size the caps-- I run a 2s setup and I think I would use a 470uF but what would the voltage be? I only run 8.4 volts would it be 16volt , 35 volt or something altogether different?
Generally, just pick caps capable of handling the voltage you are planning to run. I build my packs with 8S capable caps for extra compatibility, but if you are only running on 2S, you are fine with a 10V cap. You won't get any extra performance running a higher voltage than you need.... unless it has a significantly lower ESR. Otherwise, you will just be carrying a cap that is physically larger than it really has to be.
My packs have changed significantly since this video. I'm building packs to order now. You can see my current offerings on ebay. I have a description of which packs are best for which application. httP://www.ebay.com/usr/rhouse21
My personal feeling is that if your cap pack is almost as big as a battery, just run an additional battery in parallel. Better batteries will have less ripple voltage. Running batteries in parallel is a way to "boost" the performance of batteries so you won't need as much help to suppress the ripple voltage. There are basically 3 classes of cap packs out right now. I make smaller packs that have really low Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR) so they can charge and discharge more effectively with each of the motor's power pulses. Other guys tend to use larger capacity packs that keep a higher average voltage, but take a little longer to charge and discharge. You have to watch out for these though. a higher rpm motor may require power pulses faster than one of these packs can recover, so they could become less effective if it's not matched well to your motors rpm range. The last class are the super-capacitor packs that have a HUGE capacity, but drain slowly. Since the voltage in a capacitor increases with the number of electrons it is storing, these packs maintain a higher voltage even when the batteries start to sag under heavy load. This lets them "pull up" the voltage on the battery bus which squashes some of the ripple voltage in the system. I hope this was useful.
I appreciate your time, thank you. The smaller caps you make can they be made to large? Meaning to many capacitors. I always see 3,4,5, and sometimes 6 caps. Is there any adverse effect if you used 10 or 12. Thanks again
@@Paul-815 I've actually extended this concept to make packs with 12+ caps. The main problem with carrying bigger cap packs is that you get HUGE sparks when you first connect them due to "inrush current". This can damage or destroy your battery connectors over time. The bigger the cap pack (and the higher your operating voltage) the bigger the spark you'll get.
rhouse21 - RC Physics again I appreciate your time. I only use anti spark connectors for that reason. Any other reasons. I’m just wondering if you had 12 in a row. Is the 12th cap useful or 11th or is it creating resistance being to long. Thanks again.
@@Paul-815 I'm about to get really geeky, so apologies in advance. Think about it like this. The cap pack is generating waveform that is 180 degrees out of phase with the ripple voltage in the system in order to cancel it out (as much as possible). Resistance / inductance inside the cap pack will mean that it would take a slightly longer time for caps at the end of the wiring run to "sense" the ripple voltage and react to it. That has the effect of adding a phase shift to the output of the cap pack which makes it less effective. Long wires between the cap pack and the ESC have the same effect. I think the biggest thing is to make sure that the interconnects within the cap pack are of low enough resistance / impedance that the caps see little if any phase shift within the pack. That will make all of the caps act as if they were just one large cap.
nice video, question though i have used 6s setup with xl2 and have the smaller 63v 390uf 6caps and still have alot of ripple 5.42volts so i took off and havent tried the poseidon 100v 4920uf now. could this lower my ripple ? thank u sir
Ripple is really a byproduct of the quality of batteries you are using. Better batteries give less ripple. I wrote a pretty detailed "Tech Corner" about this on my facebook page facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics , but all cap packs filter out ripple within a given frequency range based on your system. If you look at your data plot with your 390uF caps, you will probably see that the ripple starts off fairly high at low rpms (however 5.42V is still pretty close to the 20% that Castle says is ok), but your cap pack will "kick in" and start killing ripple as your RPMs climb. My ripple went to zero as my revs climbed. There's a picture of one of my 3S testing data logs in the photo section of my Facebook page that shows this very clearly. I've never seen any actual data from any other cap packs, so I'm not sure how they would compare, but I would not expect the Poseidon pack to be much different. PM me a picture of a data log from one of your power pulls on facebook and I'll take a look at it.
Hey there, first of all great video, have a noob question - I have a stock Redcat Volcano brushless and off late the steering servo has been giving problems. It turns but is very sluggish. Sometimes it will momentarily jam or hesitate to return to neutral position. I've cleaned, lubed and serviced the servo, but just when the main gear (that connects to the servo arm) is attached the lag comes back. Not sure if it is due to a blown cap inside the ESC, but if I had to select an auxiliary capacitor to add to an open port on the ESC, how would i select the capacitance of that. The main battery is 2S 7.4V 5500 mAh and everything on the truck is still stock (electronically speaking). I've searched much on the web, but why i should use 470uF and not 5600uF remains unanswered. Hope you can guide me towards the right configuration to alleviate the issue - what capacitance caps do I need ? Thanks brother.
There's not a lot of info on sizing a "Glitch-Buster" cap out there. I could give you a long technical explanation of a process to calculate a good size, or you could go to Amazon, Digi-Key, or Mouser Electronics' web sites and order a hand full of caps and do a little trial and error. You might even have a good match laying around in your toolbox. To save you some time, here's a little advice. Since most ESCs assume that you are not powering very much off of their built-in voltage regulators (often called BECs or Battery Elimination Circuits), stock BECs are often kinda weak. The truth is that the Glitch-Buster is doing the same basic job as the ESC cap pack, but on the BEC side of the circuit and at a slower rate. Once connected to the circuit, a cap charges up to the system voltage. If the system sees a big load (like from a big servo), the voltage will sag a bit based on the output capacity of the BEC. This drop in voltage could cause a lot of servos to "glitch". A Glitch-Buster will try to "pull up" the BEC voltage under load to keep the voltage out of the "glitch" range. The size you need is dependent on the load on the BEC circuit and your BEC's overall capacity. If you have a big (or bad) digital servo, or an "unhappy" (or overloaded) BEC, you may need to give it a little more "help". It's hard to have too much capacitance on the BEC circuit, but I would guess that a single 220uF or 470uF cap would be a good place to start. Your BEC is probably running at 5-6V, so you really don't need anything rated for higher than ~10V to do a good job. These caps are pretty cheap individually, so there's very little to loose from upsizing a little though. I would NOT go above 1000uF though.... unless you have a good reason. This shouldn't hurt anything, but having a big cap like that in this part of the circuit is basically like having a small battery out there, which could cause the Rx and servo to stay "powered" after you unplug the battery for a few seconds. This could cause the car to do some weird things until that cap discharges, especially if you turn off your Tx while the Rx is still "alive".
Hi bro Did u mean if j have a 3s esc when i install these capacitor i can use my esc with such as 6 s Or i can use a high voltage 3s lipo batter Also if u can help me brother for the high speed i should use high ratio oil or low one Thank u so much i am really interest with your videos Thank u again
A 3S ESC WILL NOT take 6S power, no matter what you do. This is because 3S LiPos run at ~12 Volts. 6S LiPo setups are ~25 Volts. If you plug a 25V source into a 12V ESC, it will be VERY bad. What I meant was that my capacitors will handle up to a 6S power system, so you can wire those units into a 6S (or any lower cell count) car and be just fine. Sorry for the confusion. As far as gearing, you really need to look at your motor's kv and your speed goal to figure out what your car can do. You can actually get some pretty serious speed from a 3S power system in the right car. A Traxxas Rustler, Slash or similar car should be capable of 60-80 mph, but a true 1/10 scale on-road car like my Team Associated Apex should be capable of well over 100-110 mph on 3 cells. Thanks for watching!
Hello,sir may I ask you for suggestions.my jlb j3 have a use standard 3s battery and 25v 750uf x 2pcs, ESC 120a.now I want upgrade battery 4s 5200mah 60c,can suggest how pcs can I use for upgrade the cap bank.can I use 4pcs the same 25v and 750uf for upgrade.. please teach me about that
There's no magic equation. If you don't have data logging , the real test is to observe your ESC for signs that it is struggling. If it or your battery is running hot, you may have a ripple Voltage problem and need more capacitance to help the power system out.
I have a question to ask, for 48v, 3Kw DC motor I wanna make a backup capacitors pack, when I switch from one line of electricity to another, in that moment I need capacitance for few seconds,I don’t want to stop motor during switching, for that purpose how many caps, how many capacitors in pack required?
This is a little out of my wheelhouse, but I'll give it a shot to trying to help think this through. You would probably have to go with a super-capacitor solution since most normal caps self discharge pretty quickly once a power source is removed. Since P = I*V, a 3kW motor would be pulling as much as ~60A. An Amp = 1 Coulomb/sec and Capacitors are measured in Farads, which are Coulombs/volt. The voltage stored in a capacitor begins to fall with it's state of charge, so you would need a super capacitor large enough to only dip a volt or two during the time power is disconnected. 60A * 3 seconds = 180 Coulombs used. If you want to limit the voltage drop to ~2 Volts, that says you need a total capacity of 4320 Coulombs @ 48V. 4320 Coulombs /48V = a 90F Capacitor bank You may be better off making a relay based switch that could change over in a fraction of a second so you need a much smaller capacitor bank.
BlackSmith RC You say overkill like it's a bad thing... Seriously, I think it all has to do with how much current your system is really pulling. This is the main reason I bought my Turnigy power meter, to see how much strain I was really putting on my power system. They are only ~$25 and will measure up to 100 amps. If you are pulling 100+ amps on a 70 amp ESC like I was, it might help. If you are only pulling 40 or 50, you are probably ok. Speedruns on brushless systems usually pull as much current as the system will handle no matter what your cell count is, so it's probably cheap insurance. It can't hurt.
Steven Gilbert I used to wonder about this too. My gut tells me that it all really boils down to current handling capability. 1. Power = current * Voltage (P=I*V) & hp = torque * rpm (Voltage ==> rpm, Current ==> torque) It's actually a lot easier to design reliable, low failure rate circuits to handle high voltage than to handle high current. If a designer needs 1,500 Watts of power to get the desired performance from an RC, it's easier to design a reliable 25V (6S) system that only pulls an average of 60 amps from the batteries than to depend on a wicked (12V) 3S system that needs to push an average of 120 amps. Manufacturers usually ship their RC cars with really short gearing to reduce the torque load of the motors which reduces the current draw of the power system. Bigger motors with bigger magnets make more torque using less current. This is why 1/5 & 1/8 scale motors are so much larger than 1/10 scale. 2. Large Capacitor banks are...Large. They add a lot of bulk to the power system and are more difficult to package cleanly. The also add cost to the final products. Keeping the current loads down greatly reduces the need for a cap pack (for your average user) and keeps the price down. If a more stressing user needs more performance, an external Cap Pack is a relatively cheap that they can cell their advanced user base separately.
Not dumb at all. I've actually built a few custom packs just like that. The down side is that the cap pack has to be able to handle the full load of the power system, which can be a few hundred Amps in larger setups. It also places the caps much farther from the ESC, which can make them less effective at fighting ripple voltage.
I just posted a message about this on my Facebook page. Great timing! I am accepting pre-orders for my Gen4 Cap packs. You can get more info including how to order here. facebook.com/rhouse21RCPhysics/ I would recommend one of my 8-cap rH218-8S packs for your car. Prices listed include US shipping via USPS 1st Class Mail.
I just updated the video description to include my current line-up and instructions on how to place a direct order through PayPal. I should be shipping the new Gen4s by the end of next week if you'd like to order now.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't typically share that type of information. I use the proceeds from my sales to help fund projects for my channel. Even though I freely share a LOT of useful RC information, giving away too much about my products ultimately limits my ability to create new content for the community. :-(
Nice work man i dont know if you are still making katpaks but if you are id like 3 for my xlx esc's and i would like to chat with you about my build. Thanks keep it up bro EXCELLENT explaination
If you are on Facebook, feel free to join the RC Physics Sandbox and tell me all about your build. facebook.com/groups/804281383082531/ Have you checked your XLX data logs? They have a pretty big factory cap pack and usually do not need much more capacitance as long as they are being run on good batteries. I don't mind building packs for you, but the XLX can be funny. I few folks have actually seen them fall into a reduced power mode if you connect too much capacitance to them. This is why you really need to look at the data logs and they will tell you how big a ripple voltage problem you have, if you have one at all.
Depending on the size of pack you are planning to build, the best brand for you might be different than the ones I use. I suggest going to www.digikey.com, looking up the type of capacitors you are thinking of using (rating and voltage class), and you will get a table showing all your options. Sort the table by the expected hours before failure and pick the caps that give yo the best balance between lifetime and cost.
Nice video. You could really do with the 50v for 6s though. Something to do with voltage spikes that come from the ESC when going on and off or pumping the throttle repeatedly.
Good suggestion, but I found that the higher quality capacitors handle these transient voltage spikes pretty well. That's one of the advantages of going with higher quality parts. The lower quality, generic ones that you can find on Amazon or ebay are a lot less durable, so they don't handle these spikes nearly as well.
@@RCPhysics You always need to use, low ESR Capacitors. The ones that have 105° printed on them. But the voltage spikes for a 6s system will be higher than 35volts. Which means they aren't soaking up the spikes that do the damage
@@51im Here is a link to a datasheet for one of the caps I use to make packs. They are rated for 35V continuous and 44V surges. In reality, they can handle even higher voltages in short spikes, so this grade of caps are fine for this application. As I mentioned, lower grade caps may not hold up as well. api.kemet.com/component-edge/download/specsheet/ESY108M035AL4AA.pdf
That depends on a lot of things, actually. Ripple voltage is largely caused by the current load on the motor and the quality of your batteries. The only way to really know how much ripple voltage you are dealing with and whether you need more capacitance in your system is to have a data logging ESC like a Castle Creations ESC. Better batteries and lighter gearing can often reduce ripple voltage meaning you can get by with less capacitance. What kind of car do you have and how do you run it? That could help me give you a recommendation.
I have a hobbywing xr8 plus it's a 6S capable 150 amp and I bought some capacitors that are 4100 uf 35v I want to make an external capacitor pack how many capacitors should I use?
This is a tough one. I usually shy away from caps that size because many aren't well suited for cap packs. Caps have a few properties that can determine how effective they will be at fighting ripple voltage in addition to overall capacitance. You want to look at the capacitor's ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance), its rated lifetime and rated ripple current levels to see if it is a good fit. Many larger caps have very high ESRs which mean they charge and discharge too slowly to effectively fight ripple voltage. Some caps have really low ripple current ratings meaning they can overheat and blow if pushed hard.
@@RCPhysics I tried the capacitors and they work great they're actually at 3300uf and I put two of them together with a diode and the acceleration is extremely smooth and no more wires heat up and the ESC stays really cool the motor warms up because it's a surpass El Cheapo 2200 KV and I was bashing Full Throttle doing speed runs with a 21 tooth pinion gear M1 pitch 49 tooth spur gear accelerating hard ballooning the tires constantly with 6s massive 9000 milliamp 100c 3 cell 2 batteries capacitors did not even warm up one bit and like you said they charge slowly and discharge slowly from just those two capacitors when unplugging the battery it takes almost a second for the ESC to turn off I've noticed capacitor packs from Factory hobbywing use the diodes maybe it's the diode that's making the big difference I just took some battery cables nothing special and then covered it all with liquid tape I did it to all my RC cars
@@florin26balalau They definitely wouldn't hurt. The fact that it's low ESR may make it a little more effective than its 1,000uF rating might imply. Still, any glitch-buster is better than no glitch-buster. Most glitch-busters that I've seen are more in the >2,000uF range, so you may think about getting a single larger cap, if you still have any issues after testing it out. You could add a few tohether in parallel, but I probably wouldn't do a multi-cap glitch-buster just because of the added size.
No one has ever asked me that. Great question! Once the cap pack is connected to the ESC, the ESC does a really good job of acting as a bleed resistor. In most cases, it completely discharging the Cap Pack, so you really do not have to worry about shocking yourself on the ESC power leads too much. Also, keep in mind that while an 8S system runs at 33V max and a 6S runs at 25V, most ESCs will stay active until the line voltage falls to ~5-6V. After you disconnect the batteries, the ESC will not shut down until the voltage falls below that threshold, so they do a good job making sure there isn't much energy left in the caps. On a related note, I actually thought about adding some sort of resistor to the system to reduce spark caused by the inrush of power when you connect the batteries, but could not figure out a simple circuit that would not also change the effective resistance the Cap Pack "felt" from the rest of the system. The frequency that a Cap Pack "kicks in" is determined by the overall system resistance, so a resistor of the wrong size would change how effectively a pack filters voltage ripple.
Adding a resistor in series will reduce the effectiveness of the system. I've been looking at inrush circuits and it seems that for the lower voltages of under 11v, it is just not necessary. FOr highter voltages, there are simple ICs available to do inrush or just making a simple resistor-inductor circuit can do the trick. On a different topic, I've been doing research and I am guessing that adding a small ceramic capacitor in parallel to the electrolytic to further improve power quality as well as total instanteous power. Big capacitors handles low frequency ripple and mains noise and major output load changes. Small capacitors handle noise and fast transients. I believe adding a small ceramic cap wouldn't hurt anything and may reduce ESC loads and temps further as well as motor temperatures and RF noise.
The guys at EVUL Empire have posted some prototypes that use this principle. There is a Facebook group called Ripple Killers where a few of us Cap Pack makers exchange ideas. You should definitely join!
rhouse21 - RC Physics I've got some ideas on circuit topology (layout). I don't like they way the major manufacturers are doing it...for a specific reason. the "ladder" topology (my term I guess) won't be as effective as a slightly modified layout where the positive lead connects to the rail at 1 end of the ladder and the neg lead attaches at the far end of the ladder on the neg rail. does that make sense?
I may need to see a sketch. You can post a pic on the RC Physics Facebook page (facebook.com/rhouse21RCPhysics/) or send me a PM there. You've got me curious.
You can actually wire caps either way, but they have different effects on the overall pack performance. Wiring caps in parallel boosts the overall capacity of the pack (aka microfarads) and reduces their Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR). This lets you store more electrons and will boos the amount of current the pack can deliver in a single pulse. This is how most cap packs out there are wired. Wiring caps in series gives a result that is a little more complicated. Doing this actually REDUCES the capacity of the cap pack, but increases the voltage the pack can handle. It also increases the pack's ESR so it will charge and discharge more slowly. For example, if you wired two 25V 2000uF caps in series, you would end up with a 1000uF 50V cap pack... with 2X the ESR. Honestly, there aren't a lot of good reasons to wire conventional caps in series unless you just want to use some caps you have laying around and don't want to wait for higher voltage caps (which will have lower ESR) to be delivered. However, super-caps are a different story. Most "low cost" super-caps are only available in pretty low voltage ratings, but their capacities are HUGE. So, you can stack up a number of low-voltage super-caps in series to give you the voltage level you need for your application. For example, you could build up a cap pack using seven 4V 15,000,000uF super-caps to make a 28V (6S-capable) 2.1F cap pack. The down side is even "cheap" super caps are still kind of expensive compared to conventional caps.
Man you seem to know your stuff. I never knew about these cap packs. I been wondering what them deals are on the aftermarket esc's, Now i know. But an xmaxx owner said he installed a poseidon cap pack in his xmaxx with i think a Castle esc or Max5. Not sure why you would need different ones? Or is this what your explaining in this video? Im gonna be building up my next xmaxx with hopefully a Castle 2028 motor, xlx esc, belt drive etc. Any good reccomendations for powerful high burst aftermarket 4s lipos? Thanks
Thanks for the good words. Pretty much any high powered RC is going to have to worry about ripple voltage. The Castle XLX has a really good external cap pack on it from the factory that should keep it safe. Just check your data logs to make sure everything is good. I'm not as familiar with the Hobby Wing ESCs, but I suspect they could benefit from a good cap pack, too. My sponsor Venom makes some really nice HUGE 4S packs specifically for the X Maxx. You can find them at www.venompower.com
It kinda sucks to have to replace something that is still performing at 80+% (LiPos are expensive!), but getting to the bleeding edge requires everything to be performing at the top of it's game. Good Luck!
Uhhh...... Hmmmmm....... Don't take this the wrong way, but you just asked me to explain how you can copy a product that I am selling..... LOL! No offense, but I have to keep some secrets. ;-)
What I will say is that I used to order my own raw materials and make my own circuit boards but hand. It was a pretty labor intensive process and made the packs take way too long to make. I'm currently working on my Gen4 packs that will do things a little differently to significantly cut build-time. Thanks for watching, though.
what's up rhouse...I have one single capacitor - that reads "4700 mF. 10 volts". This by itself, is it strong enough to put on my ESC wires?... i'm running 6s batteries in my e-revo 2.0. Base on ur video this one capacitor have more MICRO FARADS than all of ur 4 combine. Please let me no...."Bless up"
There are a couple of issues with using this cap. 1) It is only rated for 10V. Using a cap rated for less than the system voltage you plan to run will cause the cap to blow. 2) Capacitors have a property called ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance). This helps determine how quickly a cap can charge and discharge. Large, single caps tend to have higher ESRs, so they charge more slowly. Using several smaller caps in parallel usually yields a cap pack that can charge and discharge more quickly which makes the cap pack more effective.
Are you asking which of my caps would be the best for your rig? I sell a lot of my rH214-8S packs for 2S drag guys. They do a great job supporting the ESC with a pretty compact package. Here is a link to my ebay listing. I sell them for $20 each. www.ebay.com/itm/152897973437
There's a little more to it than that. Cap packs fight ripple voltage. The number of caps you will need depend on the rating and performance of the caps you plan to use, the overall power level of your rig, and the quality of your batteries. If you tell me more about your rig I may be able to give some better advice.
How much they help your system is really based on the quality of your LiPo batteries, but eliminating ripple voltage should help your ESC run more efficiently which should help to bring down ESC temps. I can't make any firm promises as to how much of an effect you will see, but they definitely won't hurt anything.
rhouse21 - RC Physics thanks for the response so quick..I run mostly 3s batteries which are turnigys and onyx 2s's..nothin less than 5000mah..would you be able to make a cap pack for me for it?
If you don't run anything larger than 3S, my rH214-6S should do fine. It is listed on eBay for $15. rH214-6S: 4x470uF (1880uF) 35V Cap Pack www.ebay.com/itm/152172204085
bought a pack of 1000uf 35v low ESR Panasonic capictors on amazon... 1 dollar each.. just make it yourself,....... 2000uf at 25v is more than enough and would cost $2 to make.
I prefer to use a larger number of smaller caps to reduce the load on each cap and add some redundancy in case a cap burns out because of abuse. Like most things, the individual parts aren't very expensive. It all comes down to the time it takes to come up with a good design, build it, and have some assurance that it should work as designed. Best of luck.
+13djdave13 That's an interesting question. Capacitors are actually "AC" devices, meaning they respond to fluctuations in voltage. Cap pack's filter out ripple voltage on your power cables by using the Electric Field created by the electrons they store to generate an opposing voltage to attempt to counteract and cancel any rapid voltage fluctuations they "feel" on the power lines. The reason you want to solder the cap pack near the ESC is because all wire has some inherent resistance, so you will have a small amount of voltage drop over the length of the wire. (It's usually VERY small for good wire.) Having the cap pack wired too far "up-stream" would allow for some additional amount of voltage sag between the cap pack and the ESC which could increase the voltage ripple seen by the ESC. You want the power to your BEC to be as clean as possible too, so you definitely want it soldered near where your cap pack is attached. As long as it's close by, I don't think the exact order you wire them matters much.
+rhouse21 - RC Physics Thank you for the knowledge. As you know, what we do can get expensive and I'm trying to play it as safe as possible messing with this much power with electronics. I'm planning on upgrading my electric Rampage MT from 8s max to 12s max and come up with a manual brake solution which I kinda have an idea how I'll attempt on fabricating using a servo, metal horn, and piece of rubber. It may take me a while since the esc I'll be using is on back-order and can take weeks.
***** uf is another way of writing microfarad. A Farad is a unit for measuring how many electrons will be stored in a capacitor per volt applied to it. Honestly, there is a reason Castle designed their pack as"only" 880 uf. The larger Cap Packs will store more energy, but that will do nothing for you unless you are beating the snot out of a very large motor or you have weak batteries. A cap pack will be good protection for your setup, but remember, the XO-1 doesn't ship with a Cap Pack from the factory and it runs pretty well. Also, Castle's packs are 880 uf and seem to work well for most people. 4,000 uf is almost 5 times larger, but I doubt you will get 5X more benefit unless you are doing something "very very special."
Pretty much all high powered brushless power systems have some level of voltage ripple, but it is only an issue if it exceeds 15 - 20% of your system voltage. If you do not have a data logging ESC, you can start off with a smaller pack like my rH214-8S pack and see if it makes an improvement to ESC temperatures and overall performance.
very informative! but still confused! you say your caps are double the capacity but most i see for sale are between 12000 and 19000 farads, or am i missing something??
Good video. quick question. on my 6s system, my data log shows a drop of about 4 volts at full throttle. do you think this is due to not having a cap pack? or is this a battery/esc issue?
Actually, what you are seeing is called "voltage sag". I did a video on this a little while ago. th-cam.com/video/0KLOXEWrOes/w-d-xo.html In short, even though batteries convert chemical energy into electricity, they have a small amount of resistance to electricity flowing through them. (As you might have guessed, this is called "internal Resistance.") Ohm's law says that when you pass current through a resister, you will see a small amount of voltage drop across that resister. (V_drop = system current * resistance) 4 volts of drop is actually not too bad actually. Many guys see as much as 6-9V of drop. I have another couple of videos that show how to dig into your data logs to get clews about how your power system is doing. th-cam.com/video/0DJSKSlGdq4/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/b_iVQyl0Ags/w-d-xo.html Be careful crunching the data, though because it can take a little while to get a good feel for how to interpret the data. For example, 4V of sag ca mean that your batteries are VERY good and manage your system's load very well OR it an mean that your system is very lightly loaded and you are not pulling much current implying you have a LOT of tuning headroom. I hope this helps!
so I guess my question is. do I need a capacitor pack, and if so which one of yours do you recommend? looking at the data log, the most sag I can see is about 5.5 volts.
How much ripple voltage are you seeing? If it is more than 10-15% of the system voltage (more than 2.5 - 4V), you should probably be running a cap pack. I run my 8 cap rH218-8S packs on my MMX ESCs and the ripple voltage dropped from 5+V to ~10V with some pretty high current loads. Remember, your batteries have a lot to do with your overall ripple level, so you may end up with a different number than me in the end, but it should be a significant improvement. If that's not enough, I'll be willing to exchange that pack for a 12-cap rH2112-8S, but I suspect the 8-cap version will handle your system fine.
I got the boxer configuration (two caps on each side...4 total) these really are the best I've used yet. I'm just using it on the STREET ELIMINATOR build. It causes a major difference at launch and top speed!🔥💣💥💥💥Major difference.....If ur not using a good cap pack you are not running a competitive 132ft. eliminator drag car.
A well designed cap pack should never make your car slower except in some very extreme circumstances. In general, adding extra capacitance allows your ESC to better handle the instantaneous load of feeding the motor high current levels. This should also let your ESC run more efficiently as well, so there should really be no down side.
I'm not familiar with that ESC. There should be some numbers on the capacitors that tell you what their capacity is They are probably somewhere between 200uF and 600uF. Do you see anything like that on them? These are probably power capacitors, so you can most likely run it safely by wiring up a good external cap pack at least as large in capacity as the stock capacitor(s).
I am currently out of stock, but should have a new generation of 8S capable packs ready to sell around X-Mas. Watch the channel and the RC Physics Facebook page for updates. facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics
Hi rhouse21'' i need you to make me the8x470 microfarads=3730 microfarads capacitors i need two packs of them with the xt90 connectors on both ends male and female with 10AWG wires tell me how could i purchase them? Thank's!
Sorry for the delay. I plan to have a new batch of my stock packs by the end of the week, so I should be able to rig up 2 custom packs you early next early next week. PM me on facebook to talk pricing and payment. facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics
I think so, but it may depend on your ESC. The ESC's output to a brushed motors is just DC voltage, but the ESC may be using a "switching voltage converter" to create the output signal. Still, brushed motors can't handle the level of current that brushless motors do, so there may not be as much benefit in real-world usage.
Glitch busters really just protect the BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit) from "brown outs" caused by accessories (like big digital servos) pulling too much current on the receiver-power bus. They can help a lot if your ESC doesn't have a very robust Rx power supply / BEC.
I have variants that will work on that ESC. This is an old video, so my current designs are a lot nicer. I just do custom builds now mostly now, but check out my ebay listing to see what I can do. www.ebay.com/itm/152897973437
I have a Arrma Kraton running 5200 50c 4s And at times drop in 2 5600 75c 3sPower Hobby battery’s And stock BLX185 esc And 2050kv motor. What would be the best choice for this ?
Diff oil gives your RC diffs a lot of the properties of a limited slip differential in a full-sized car. Higher weight oil deduces the amount of differential action you will get while running. This can dramatically change the handling of your car. A buggy probably came with very light oil all around to help you get tight cornering. Drag cars and speed runners usually run very heavy oil or lock the diff so they do not "diff out" (spin one wheel) under hard acceleration. I talk more about this in the attached video link. Good luck! th-cam.com/video/fcBzFNziRoE/w-d-xo.html
It might, but if you're plug is getting really hot you may have another problem. Excessive plug heating is a sign of at least 2 potential issues. 1) You may have a bad solder joint that has increased the resistance of your battery connectors. This would cause the plug to heat up much more than it should at high current levels. Or... 2) Your connectors are undersized for the current levels your power system is pulling. Basically, your connectors should have the same overall resistance level (or better) as all the other components in your power system. Undersized connectors are higher resistance than the wires they are soldered to and make an electrical bottleneck which can create a LOT of heat. I learn this lesson the hard way and had one connector become so hot that it the soldered itself from the power system during a speed run. 🤯 In my experience, connectors using 5mm bullets are good to peak loads of 100-200A. Castle 6.5mm Connectors are fine for ~300A. If you are pulling 400A or more, you probably should be running 8mm bullets. A good rule of thumb is to use battery connectors with bullets at least as big as the bullet connectors on your motor. That way you know the batteries aren't an electrical bottleneck.
@@RCPhysics thanks man i upgaded from the deans plug that melted i had no idea my mt10 actually went so fast major power restriction there. My deans wa completely melted
I actually started off running Dean's connectors too and learned a pretty hard lesson from them. They are fine for low power applications, but they have no place in the type of running that I do on all of my larger cars. It took me a little while (and more research than you'd expect)to figure out that Dean's connectors are only rated to 65 amps. That's it. Just 65 amps. So think about all the lipo batteries that ship with Dean's connectors and all the people who innocently use them in the WRONG applications.
Ahhh. I see. Traxxas recommends using ~100k diff Fluid in the front and ~30-50k in the rear of the XO-1. That's probably a good place to start for a speed run car. Lots of guys lock the diffs completely, but I like the cars to be able to turn when I want them to.
+PS4 Custom Gamer ESC's do have capacitors in them, but they are only sized for the average RC'er pulling a relatively small amount of current in short bursts (like accelerating out of a corner in a race). Speed runners can pull 200+ Amps for several seconds, which is a MASSIVE amount of current for a relatively long time. Cap packs work with the batteries in these extreme cases to make sure the ESC sees a good, clean power source. Most batteries can't handle pushing that much current without having pretty large dips in voltage that hit with each power pulse. This is called "ripple voltage." Better battery packs will have lower ripple voltage, but you should expect every battery to have some ripple voltage in these power ranges. If the ripple voltage is more than ~10% of the battery's nominal voltage, it can damage your ESC. Well sized Cap Packs act as filters that squash the voltage ripple and provide good clean power so the ESC can perform optimally. The interesting wrinkle is that larger capacitors charge and discharge at a slower rate. This property is called a capacitor's "time constant". So, if you have individual caps that are too large, they will not be able to filter higher frequency ripple voltage (like what you'd see at the top of a motor's RPM range on a speed run). The answer is to use a lot of smaller capacitors that add up to the overall capacitance you are looking for. In short, the main point of a cap pack is to insure clean power to the ESC. They do store energy as well, but that is generally a secondary effect. Put another way, if the current capability of a battery is so low that it needs a cap pack to act as a secondary battery, you probably should be looking for a better battery.
+PS4 Custom Gamer This eNos device has a circuit that allows a capacitor bank to sit in parallel to the battery to charge to the same voltage as the power system, then it switches to essentially put the capacitor in series with the battery to temporarily boost the voltage of the system, giving a speed boost. This effect is only momentary though, and the capacitor will quickly discharge until the system voltage had returne to "normal." Also, the rate of discharge is highly dependent on the current load on the system. So, on a 2S 1/10 scale touring car at parking lot speeds, the current load on the system is probably pretty low (maybe 50 - 70 Amps). The eNOS device can give a pretty noticeable "pop" in performance here without putting a tremendous amount of strain on the system. Scale that to 6S or 8S though and things get a little different. For me, the problem with an eNOS like device for high powered (6S or 8S) speed runs is that it's tough to make something like that scale in a way that makes more sense than just running more battery cells in a high current application. I have heard rumors of guys using a similar device to boost speed on speed runs, but the difference in current load at 30-40 mph (50-70 km/h) and 100 mph (160 km/h) is HUGE. A capacitor bank big enough to do the same job on a speed run would be comparable in size to an extra 2S or 3S battery. True, I may be able to get a few seconds of 6S power from a "4S" power system, but I personally would prefer to use the extra weight to just carry more battery power.
It honestly depends on the caps, the system current levels, and the quality of your batteries. Lower current levels and better batteries drastically reduce system ripple voltage. If you go to a good electronics web site like www.digikey.com or www.mouser.com, you can pull up the detailed specs such as ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance). The lower the ESC, the faster the caps will charge and discharge, so the more effective they will be. A few 'small' high quality low-ESR caps may outperform 10 high uF "junk caps" from Ebay or Amazon. Also, you should look at other specs such as expected lifetime and ripple current capability.
Actually, there is another secondary benefit. As I mentioned in linked video, (th-cam.com/video/cBQXZ3aEh5k/w-d-xo.html ), one of the reasons caps fail is that they can heat up internally while surpressing ripple voltage. Higher voltage caps are physically larger and have more surface area to shed heat, so they should run cooler under the same conditions. Thanks for the comment!
It was a good video and explained to me the role capacitors play. I enjoyed it. Especially the dat dat dat bing bing bing part lol. I may have to subscribe.
saud al abdullah A cap pack may not always be needed, but it shouldn't hurt. A Mamba Monster 2 ESC can pull up to 120 Amps continuous and quite a bit more in very short "bursts". The cap pack will fill in the "burst" demand making it easier for the battery to keep up with the ESC's power needs. Not all batteries are created equal (sometimes you can't trust manufacturers' C-ratings). A good hi-C lipo should be able to keep up with the continuous load (Castle recommends 25C or higher), but they still need a short time to 'ramp up" to a really high burst load. A good quality cap pack should help everything work better and provide fairly cheap protection for your electronics, so I say go for it.
Oh and if I run 20t pinion and 54 spur with a Center diff on a mamba monster 2 slash 4x4 4s how fast will I go ? I have the j concepts scalpel body with xo1 wheels
You can use the website to below to calculate your top speeds, but you probably should drop the center diff and either go with an E-Revo/Slayer slipper clutch or use a slipper delete unit. The center diff is really intended for off-road racing. The problem is that if you start to spin your wheels, the digg could send all your power to the spinning wheels and kill your run. scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/index.html
I'll try the Center diff and the stock slipper clutch and see which I like best it depends on the car not all are the same most of the people I know run a Center diff and some use a slipper clutch (stock) anyways thanks for the website I'll check it out !
+nts 323 Cap packs will work on any ESC since they just help to condition the power flowing into the ESC. Hard acceleration pulls a lot of current. This can induce a "ripple voltage" that can cause problems. Cap packs' primary purpose are to reduce or eliminate ripple voltage, but a large enough cap pack will also help augment the batteries in some situation. I hope this helps.
I've sold a number of custom cap packs for XLX2 setups just for extra protection. Technically, you can't really have too much capacitance... unless it starts to cause such an in-rush current spark when you plug in the batteries that you are starting to damage your connectors. That said, the XLX2 is a pretty stout ESC. Check your data logs first to see how bad your ripple is. If it's over 3-4V on 8S, you might want to consider a cap pack just as a precaution. Thanks for watching!
@@RCPhysics awesome so I use qs8's on everything I own, I was thinking about just putting one on to make sure I n ver ripple I drive my k8s exb 1/5 for sometimes 12 seconds full tilt in park areas and castle said I don't need one but I wanted to just for added protection. Would you use the 8s cap pack or the 12s one? Going to buy it now at hobby shop! I applied the fast response! +1 sub here!!
@@never-stock-rc2968 You don't get any additional benefit using a cap pack of a higher voltage than you actually need. Cap sizes are measured in Farads which are defined as the number of electrons the cap can hold per volt applied. So a 6S, 8S, and 12S cap pack will all hold the exact same number of electrons on 6S. It's like buying a 5 gallon bucket to move 1 gallon of water. 😎
@@RCPhysics ok because I accidently bought the 12s castle cap pack instead of the 8s one. So I'm ok to run the 12s cap on an 8s system then? Thanks man I am it so much!!!
Capacitors add in a way "opposite" to resistors in a circuit. connecting them in series actually reduces their overall capacitance, but increases the voltage capability of the resulting "capacitor network." Connecting them in parallel lets you sum the capacitance of the caps, but the network will be limited to the voltage of the lowest rated cap in the network.
I made 6 capacitor pack. But when I contacted it to the ESC 6S BLX 185 . It starts to caging or it's like if there is a power leaking. I contacted the + to + and - to - side. Is there something wrong? or what should I do? Thank you
What voltage rating are the caps? They should be at least 35V for a 6S system. Also, are you sure non of the caps have gone bad. Bad caps in an external cap pack can cause the ESC to behave strangely, too.
There's actually a lot more to cap pack design / selection than cap size. Actually, sometimes going too big can actually hurt your performance. The 4x470uF configuration is actually 33% larger than the Traxxas XO-1's stock cap pack and is fine for "lower power" set ups with good quality batteries. Higher capacity power systems need more "help", but you have to consider factors such as total system power, operating voltage, battery Internal Resistance (IR) and the Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR)of the individual caps in the cap pack. I'm going to be filming a Cap Pack 201 update video soon to talk about some of these things, but trust me, my 4x470uF packs low-ESR cap pack are a lot more effective than you might think, especially on lower-power rigs.
Batteries puff because they have sustained internal damage. A good cap pack should help your batteries see a more stable load that should help to protect them from damage, but a cap pack can only take so much abuse before it starts to take damage itself. I think a good cap pack will help, but there are a LOT of other factors at work. The cap pack will work harder with lower quality batteries. The lower quality the battery, the harder the cap pack will work to try to insure clean power, so the more likely you are to blow caps in your pack. If your packs are puffing, they are being overworked. Adding a cap pack would probably help, but that would just be a "band aid". The pack will probably fail if you keep pushing it that hard. Puffing is a sign that it's time to upgrade to better cells.. Thanks for the great question!
That may be a little small for that ESC. Are you running the stock ESC and is it the 6S or 8S version? The castle cap pack is for 6S max but it's really meant for much smaller cars (1/10 or 1/8 scale) with ~100 Amp ESC's, so just be careful there. The X-Maxx is a pretty big machine and that ESC probably pushes quite a bit more amperage that might overwhelm that cap pack. I would recommend one of my rH218-8S packs, but I'm out of stock right now. Check back with me in about a week, though.
rhouse21 - RC Physics Ooh I See.. I Have The Xmaxx 8s Version, But Only Using Traxxas 5000mah 25c 6s Lipo Batteries... Cant Afford The 8s Lipo Batteries.. Do You Sell Them On Ebay?
The uF value of the individual caps sets the RPM/current level where the Cap pack starts filtering your system. Larger uF caps will kick in at lower frequencies, but will not be able to keep up s much as frequencies climb very high. More caps in parallel help to manage higher current loads in the system. One of my 8 cap rH218-12S cap packs would provide great protection for a 300+ Amp Castle XL-Series 8S ESC while a 4 cap rH214-6S cap would be enough for a most 3-6S systems rated for ~100-150 Amps.
The easiest way to contact me is though my facebook page facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics. If you just want to see what cap packs I have on hand, just check my ebay site at www.ebay.com/usr/rhouse21
Brother I need two caps that I need .. They r the ones on the XL inside on power side . If u know or can help please hit me up !! RCFL brother good stuff !!
JM Speck How comfortable are you with electrical stuff like fine soldering and circuit testing? If the capacitors are just blown, you can probably find 2 of about the right value at Radio Shack for a couple of bucks (literally) and swap them out. You can probably find them cheaper online, but you'd have to wait for them and you may need to buy a lot more than you really need (like I did in this video). This job shouldn't be too hard if that is all that's wrong. What concerns me is that some other component on the circuit board may have gotten fried after the caps blew and you could now have a ticking time-bomb that could start a fire. Have you called Castle for a warranty claim? They are usually pretty good about that and even have an "out of warranty exchange" program where you can buy a replacement ESC at a deep discount. I'm just worried that with the power you tend to push, you might get a repeat of mrtuner89 's electrical fire. RCFL, and stay safe!
If 35v capacitors are the standard on the xL2 and their other products for the xL2, is it ok to use 50v or even 63v capacitors to create a Cap-Pack? I have a 12s ESC and figure I need it for my 8s and 6s rc's too. 2200uf 63v caps www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00ERGSQ8G/ref=psd_mlt_bc_B00ERGSQ8G
The only downside of using higher voltage caps is that they physically larger. A Farad is a measurement of how many electrons a cap will store at a given voltage. Higher voltage caps are bigger to have room to store the extra electrons, but they are no difference in performance at lower than rated voltages. I rate my cap packs conservatively to have extra margin for random voltage spikes and such. I use 35V Caps in my "6S" packs and 63V caps in my "10S" packs, even though they will probably handle higher cell counts just fine. Be careful about using really large valued caps. They change the frequency that will be filtered and may not actually do anything if you use the wrong value. Check out a recent "rhouse Tech Corner" on the RC Physics Facebook page for more info. facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics
Google "passive low-pass filter" to get even more info on this. There are a few good tutorials out there. That and my "Tech Corner" should get you in the right neighborhood. You can wire Cap packs in series or parallel. Wiring in series uses bigger valued caps of lower voltages ratings to create a capacitor network with a lower "effective" capacitance but higher voltage capability. Wiring in caps parallel increases the "order" of the network, making the filter "stronger" but requires higher voltage rated caps.
This is a simple question with a not-so-simple answer. In a nutshell, there are 3 ways to tell if your cap pack is working. 1.) A good cap pack should filter out system ripple, which protects the ESC from damage and can make it perform a bit more efficiently. Many guys say this will result in lower run-temps and more overall power. Soooo, you *might* be able to "feel" that your cap pack is working by noting any differences in system power and/or run-temps. The problem is that a good ESC may not need a whole lot of help under most conditions, so you may not feel any difference at all. This is a tough one because it's all based on "feel" with no data. I have guys who claim that my Cap Packs completely changed the behavior of their cars.... but On'y a couple of guys have actually been able to show me any data confirming anything. 2.) Speaking of data, if you have a data logging ESC or an EagleTree data logger, you can look at your data logs with and without your cap pack installed and see if it is lowering your system ripple. This is about as clear as proof comes, but some guys are a little intimidated by digging through data logs. Here is a video I did a little while back that can guide you through that process. th-cam.com/video/0DJSKSlGdq4/w-d-xo.html 3.) So, lets say you do not have a data logging ESC. You are not out of luck. You can actually get a fairly inexpensive multi-meter with capacitor measurement capability for $20-$40. Ideally, you would want to measure the capacitance in the ESC before you install a cap pack and after you have it installed. I wire all my cap packs with a quick connector so I can easily disconnect it from the ESC and measure it directly, but measuring it while connected to the ESC works too, as long as you know how much to deduct for the ESC's internal caps. This method will also tell you if you have blown any caps in your pack, which does happen over time with enough abuse. Here is another video I did showing how to take these measurements. th-cam.com/video/cBQXZ3aEh5k/w-d-xo.html Thanks for watching!
Good caps have a spec sheet that publishes their ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) or impedance. This determines how quickly the capacitors can charge and discharge. Larger capacitors usually have higher ESRs. If the ESR is too high, the capacitor will not be able to charge and discharge fast enough to keep up with the power pulses from the ESC. Many named brand capacitors in the 500 to 2000 microfarad range will usually have ESR values low enough to keep up, but the only way to really be sure is to look up the manufacturer's data sheet and do the math. However, if you are using a data logging ESC like a Castle, you can experiment with different capacitors and see how well they are working by reviewing the data logs.
Sorry about the audio. This was when I was still trying to figure out production, so the audio mix could have been better. I still have the "annoying music", but I've retied to make the audio much clearer in my more recent videos. Thanks for the feedback!
No offense taken at all! Actually a lot of people have commented that the music gets a little old after a while. I've considered removing it, but I have a large family and it actually helps to mask some of the commotion that is usually happening in the background while I'm filming. ;-) Thanks for watching and I really do appreciate the feedback.
This video is almost 4 years old now. I was actually one of the first independent guys making these, My new ones are MUCH nicer, but I decided to leave this video up for educational purposes.
Cap packs? A quick summary on what they do and how they work. For whatever reason when i saw 101 i thought it was going to be a how to vid with soldering ect. Im prob alone on that so i wouldnt pay to much mind to my comment. I do enjoy your channel and its content i have learned quite a bit from you and i need to thank you for that. Take care friend
@@hardcorehobbys381 I actually used to have a longer, more descriptive title for this, but apparently TH-cam cuts off long titles on mobile devices, so I shortened it up to Cap Packs 101. Just another example of everything in life ultimately being a compromise. 😣
This guy is the business, I’ve been trying to understand what a capacitor is in the rc world and bam finally I found this video! Thank you 🙌
Thanks! I appreciate the compliment. 😁
Best explanation on TH-cam so far hands down
Thank You! I really appreciate that. :-D
agreed..
I am amazed. I only heard of cap packs a few months ago. I’ve watched several TH-cam videos. I’ve “commented” each time basically asking “what do they do?” & “how might they improve performance of the specific vehicle I have?”. Most of me “comments” remain unaddressed. Others completely confused me. One reply NOW makes sense to me...”eliminates ripple”. After you video, I now understand what was referred to as ripple.
One of the questions I asked repeatedly was how would a cap pack improve the performance of the X01 I am currently working on. I did get one answer...the X01 doesn’t need one. I could only guess one reason. While I was curious what the 3 drums were wired into the ESC, I couldn’t identify them from the parts list or the exploded views. Now I know they are a cap pack. While I do have a few other questions, I don’t want to go on & on here, but here’s one. Will replacing the cap pack that TRAXXAS seems to have “snuck in” with a superior one (ie yours) improve the performance of my 6S X01?
Great job! THANKS!
The XO-1 ships with a version of the Castle Mamba Monster 2 ESC with custom Traxxas firmware. The MM2 was capable of delivering at least 200-300A in short burst, but few people know exactly how many it will do because this generation ESCs lacked data logging. This sounds like a lot, but this ESC did not contain very much internal capacitance to fight ripple voltage, which is why Castle and Traxxas added the external Cap Pack to better protect this ESC. While the combo worked well, Castle continued to improve their Mamba Monster ESC with the Mamba Monster X (which had a more sophisticated "brain" and added data logging) and then Mamba Monster X-8S (which has a brand new 8S-capable internal architecture and performs on par with the older Mamba XL2 and XLX 8S ESCs)
While the MM2 is a still a good ESC, it is an old architecture now and about 2-3 generations behind the latest Castle ESCs in overall performance, power delivery, overall smoothness, and ripple suppression. I believe the Traxxas firmware in the OEM ESCs limits the output, so you should not be able to exceed the capabilities of the stock Cap Pack. However, the Mamba Monster 2 Retro from Castle has all the power suppression removed and is a direct replacement for the stock ESC. If you decide to upgrade to that, you should definitely jump to a higher capacity cap pack to protect it. That ESC will happily deliver enough power to destroy itself if you aren't careful setting it up.
Still, If you want to get the most out of your stock XO-1setup, I'd suggest moving up to the MMX-8S, just for the data logging and increased smoothness. It's internal architecture is so good that you may not even need an external cap pack running on 6S (but adding one definitely won't hurt).
I have to confess while I almost ordered the MMX-8S...went as far as to put it in my cart, but I am very intimidated regarding my ability to do the replacement of the stock X01 ESC. While I don’t doubt it will be the best upgrade I could do, I think I would screw it up...too many wires! Thanks for your advice. Perhaps with a little more experience I will venture to make the change.
I don’t even know what data logs are lol. Is that if you run an aftermarket transmitter that you can check your data? I wouldn’t even know what to look for in the data lol. Thanks for your response
Castle's higher end ESCs have an internal "black box" that records a ton of information that you can review to help tune your rig and make sure the ESC is running in a safe regime. It's really cool tech.
You do these type of videos really well man!! Try making and selling some glitch busters from 10V caps. They're easy and dirt cheap to make and you could sell them for decent markup. Hoping I could request you do a vid creating an ultracapacitor pack using 8x2.7V 10f or 25F Maxwell or Nesscap Electrolytic Double layer ultracapacitor units in series. I've made a 4S and a 6S unit but can't find the time to make a video myself showing these and how they work. I like to connect the standard electrolytic caps close to the ESC but I use these as battery boosters for my really low C rate batteries.Let me know if you need instructions or anything.
+Ken Trapnell Thanks! That's a pretty cool idea!! I'd love to see pix. You can message me via my facebook page. facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics
Didn't know anything about cap pack...Thanks for the info bro...."Bless up"
Thank you!
If you don't mind me asking, what is the board called that the capacitors attach to when making a cap pack? I've googled "circuit board" , "capacitor strip", and have had no luck. After blowing my CC XL2 I'm planning to take major precautions after I replace the capacitors in my esc.
Just order one of my 10S capable units. Save yourself some time and trouble. ;-) You can finde them in my ebay listings at www.ebay.com/usr/rhouse21
I buy "project boards" and cut them to size.
+rhouse21 - RC thank you for the knowledge
Hi, how do I size the caps-- I run a 2s setup and I think I would use a 470uF but what would the voltage be? I only run 8.4 volts would it be 16volt , 35 volt or something altogether different?
Generally, just pick caps capable of handling the voltage you are planning to run. I build my packs with 8S capable caps for extra compatibility, but if you are only running on 2S, you are fine with a 10V cap. You won't get any extra performance running a higher voltage than you need.... unless it has a significantly lower ESR. Otherwise, you will just be carrying a cap that is physically larger than it really has to be.
Hi guy, I have a 200amp esc 8s, What pack should I use for running 6s LiPo batteries.
My packs have changed significantly since this video. I'm building packs to order now. You can see my current offerings on ebay. I have a description of which packs are best for which application.
httP://www.ebay.com/usr/rhouse21
Can they be made to big? Both in capacity and length. If so what would be the side effect. Thanks 👍🏼
My personal feeling is that if your cap pack is almost as big as a battery, just run an additional battery in parallel.
Better batteries will have less ripple voltage. Running batteries in parallel is a way to "boost" the performance of batteries so you won't need as much help to suppress the ripple voltage.
There are basically 3 classes of cap packs out right now. I make smaller packs that have really low Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR) so they can charge and discharge more effectively with each of the motor's power pulses. Other guys tend to use larger capacity packs that keep a higher average voltage, but take a little longer to charge and discharge. You have to watch out for these though. a higher rpm motor may require power pulses faster than one of these packs can recover, so they could become less effective if it's not matched well to your motors rpm range. The last class are the super-capacitor packs that have a HUGE capacity, but drain slowly. Since the voltage in a capacitor increases with the number of electrons it is storing, these packs maintain a higher voltage even when the batteries start to sag under heavy load. This lets them "pull up" the voltage on the battery bus which squashes some of the ripple voltage in the system.
I hope this was useful.
I appreciate your time, thank you. The smaller caps you make can they be made to large? Meaning to many capacitors. I always see 3,4,5, and sometimes 6 caps. Is there any adverse effect if you used 10 or 12. Thanks again
@@Paul-815 I've actually extended this concept to make packs with 12+ caps. The main problem with carrying bigger cap packs is that you get HUGE sparks when you first connect them due to "inrush current". This can damage or destroy your battery connectors over time. The bigger the cap pack (and the higher your operating voltage) the bigger the spark you'll get.
rhouse21 - RC Physics again I appreciate your time. I only use anti spark connectors for that reason. Any other reasons. I’m just wondering if you had 12 in a row. Is the 12th cap useful or 11th or is it creating resistance being to long. Thanks again.
@@Paul-815 I'm about to get really geeky, so apologies in advance.
Think about it like this. The cap pack is generating waveform that is 180 degrees out of phase with the ripple voltage in the system in order to cancel it out (as much as possible). Resistance / inductance inside the cap pack will mean that it would take a slightly longer time for caps at the end of the wiring run to "sense" the ripple voltage and react to it. That has the effect of adding a phase shift to the output of the cap pack which makes it less effective. Long wires between the cap pack and the ESC have the same effect.
I think the biggest thing is to make sure that the interconnects within the cap pack are of low enough resistance / impedance that the caps see little if any phase shift within the pack. That will make all of the caps act as if they were just one large cap.
nice video, question though i have used 6s setup with xl2 and have the smaller 63v 390uf 6caps and still have alot of ripple 5.42volts so i took off and havent tried the poseidon 100v 4920uf now. could this lower my ripple ? thank u sir
Ripple is really a byproduct of the quality of batteries you are using. Better batteries give less ripple. I wrote a pretty detailed "Tech Corner" about this on my facebook page facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics , but all cap packs filter out ripple within a given frequency range based on your system. If you look at your data plot with your 390uF caps, you will probably see that the ripple starts off fairly high at low rpms (however 5.42V is still pretty close to the 20% that Castle says is ok), but your cap pack will "kick in" and start killing ripple as your RPMs climb. My ripple went to zero as my revs climbed. There's a picture of one of my 3S testing data logs in the photo section of my Facebook page that shows this very clearly. I've never seen any actual data from any other cap packs, so I'm not sure how they would compare, but I would not expect the Poseidon pack to be much different.
PM me a picture of a data log from one of your power pulls on facebook and I'll take a look at it.
Hey there, first of all great video, have a noob question - I have a stock Redcat Volcano brushless and off late the steering servo has been giving problems. It turns but is very sluggish. Sometimes it will momentarily jam or hesitate to return to neutral position. I've cleaned, lubed and serviced the servo, but just when the main gear (that connects to the servo arm) is attached the lag comes back. Not sure if it is due to a blown cap inside the ESC, but if I had to select an auxiliary capacitor to add to an open port on the ESC, how would i select the capacitance of that. The main battery is 2S 7.4V 5500 mAh and everything on the truck is still stock (electronically speaking). I've searched much on the web, but why i should use 470uF and not 5600uF remains unanswered. Hope you can guide me towards the right configuration to alleviate the issue - what capacitance caps do I need ?
Thanks brother.
There's not a lot of info on sizing a "Glitch-Buster" cap out there. I could give you a long technical explanation of a process to calculate a good size, or you could go to Amazon, Digi-Key, or Mouser Electronics' web sites and order a hand full of caps and do a little trial and error. You might even have a good match laying around in your toolbox. To save you some time, here's a little advice.
Since most ESCs assume that you are not powering very much off of their built-in voltage regulators (often called BECs or Battery Elimination Circuits), stock BECs are often kinda weak. The truth is that the Glitch-Buster is doing the same basic job as the ESC cap pack, but on the BEC side of the circuit and at a slower rate. Once connected to the circuit, a cap charges up to the system voltage. If the system sees a big load (like from a big servo), the voltage will sag a bit based on the output capacity of the BEC. This drop in voltage could cause a lot of servos to "glitch". A Glitch-Buster will try to "pull up" the BEC voltage under load to keep the voltage out of the "glitch" range.
The size you need is dependent on the load on the BEC circuit and your BEC's overall capacity. If you have a big (or bad) digital servo, or an "unhappy" (or overloaded) BEC, you may need to give it a little more "help". It's hard to have too much capacitance on the BEC circuit, but I would guess that a single 220uF or 470uF cap would be a good place to start. Your BEC is probably running at 5-6V, so you really don't need anything rated for higher than ~10V to do a good job. These caps are pretty cheap individually, so there's very little to loose from upsizing a little though.
I would NOT go above 1000uF though.... unless you have a good reason. This shouldn't hurt anything, but having a big cap like that in this part of the circuit is basically like having a small battery out there, which could cause the Rx and servo to stay "powered" after you unplug the battery for a few seconds. This could cause the car to do some weird things until that cap discharges, especially if you turn off your Tx while the Rx is still "alive".
Oh man didn't mean it that way..I love how you explain everything just wanted to make one on my own . No big deal and great video again.
No worries. I understand. ;-)
Hi bro
Did u mean if j have a 3s esc when i install these capacitor i can use my esc with such as 6 s
Or i can use a high voltage 3s lipo batter
Also if u can help me brother for the high speed i should use high ratio oil or low one
Thank u so much i am really interest with your videos
Thank u again
A 3S ESC WILL NOT take 6S power, no matter what you do. This is because 3S LiPos run at ~12 Volts. 6S LiPo setups are ~25 Volts. If you plug a 25V source into a 12V ESC, it will be VERY bad. What I meant was that my capacitors will handle up to a 6S power system, so you can wire those units into a 6S (or any lower cell count) car and be just fine. Sorry for the confusion.
As far as gearing, you really need to look at your motor's kv and your speed goal to figure out what your car can do. You can actually get some pretty serious speed from a 3S power system in the right car. A Traxxas Rustler, Slash or similar car should be capable of 60-80 mph, but a true 1/10 scale on-road car like my Team Associated Apex should be capable of well over 100-110 mph on 3 cells.
Thanks for watching!
Hello,sir may I ask you for suggestions.my jlb j3 have a use standard 3s battery and 25v 750uf x 2pcs, ESC 120a.now I want upgrade battery 4s 5200mah 60c,can suggest how pcs can I use for upgrade the cap bank.can I use 4pcs the same 25v and 750uf for upgrade.. please teach me about that
There's no magic equation. If you don't have data logging , the real test is to observe your ESC for signs that it is struggling. If it or your battery is running hot, you may have a ripple Voltage problem and need more capacitance to help the power system out.
Good job brother, thanks for sharing 👍 👍 👍 👍
Thank you!
I have a question to ask, for 48v, 3Kw DC motor I wanna make a backup capacitors pack, when I switch from one line of electricity to another, in that moment I need capacitance for few seconds,I don’t want to stop motor during switching, for that purpose how many caps, how many capacitors in pack required?
This is a little out of my wheelhouse, but I'll give it a shot to trying to help think this through.
You would probably have to go with a super-capacitor solution since most normal caps self discharge pretty quickly once a power source is removed. Since P = I*V, a 3kW motor would be pulling as much as ~60A. An Amp = 1 Coulomb/sec and Capacitors are measured in Farads, which are Coulombs/volt.
The voltage stored in a capacitor begins to fall with it's state of charge, so you would need a super capacitor large enough to only dip a volt or two during the time power is disconnected.
60A * 3 seconds = 180 Coulombs used. If you want to limit the voltage drop to ~2 Volts, that says you need a total capacity of 4320 Coulombs @ 48V. 4320 Coulombs /48V = a 90F Capacitor bank
You may be better off making a relay based switch that could change over in a fraction of a second so you need a much smaller capacitor bank.
rhouse21 - RC Physics thanks for your kind information, and sorry for to have a troubled to you 😇
No problem. It was interesting to think it through.
Great video bro. Would a Cap Pack may a better difference on a 2S system, or would it be overkill?
BlackSmith RC You say overkill like it's a bad thing...
Seriously, I think it all has to do with how much current your system is really pulling. This is the main reason I bought my Turnigy power meter, to see how much strain I was really putting on my power system. They are only ~$25 and will measure up to 100 amps. If you are pulling 100+ amps on a 70 amp ESC like I was, it might help. If you are only pulling 40 or 50, you are probably ok. Speedruns on brushless systems usually pull as much current as the system will handle no matter what your cell count is, so it's probably cheap insurance.
It can't hurt.
So 2 questions.
1. wouldnt a good quality ESC have some kind of system like this built into it?
2. if they dont why not?
Steven Gilbert I used to wonder about this too. My gut tells me that it all really boils down to current handling capability.
1. Power = current * Voltage (P=I*V) & hp = torque * rpm (Voltage ==> rpm, Current ==> torque)
It's actually a lot easier to design reliable, low failure rate circuits to handle high voltage than to handle high current. If a designer needs 1,500 Watts of power to get the desired performance from an RC, it's easier to design a reliable 25V (6S) system that only pulls an average of 60 amps from the batteries than to depend on a wicked (12V) 3S system that needs to push an average of 120 amps.
Manufacturers usually ship their RC cars with really short gearing to reduce the torque load of the motors which reduces the current draw of the power system. Bigger motors with bigger magnets make more torque using less current. This is why 1/5 & 1/8 scale motors are so much larger than 1/10 scale.
2. Large Capacitor banks are...Large. They add a lot of bulk to the power system and are more difficult to package cleanly. The also add cost to the final products. Keeping the current loads down greatly reduces the need for a cap pack (for your average user) and keeps the price down. If a more stressing user needs more performance, an external Cap Pack is a relatively cheap that they can cell their advanced user base separately.
Noob/stupid question. .. cant you run them in line like have a conector either end then onside to your esc the other to the battery ?
Not dumb at all. I've actually built a few custom packs just like that. The down side is that the cap pack has to be able to handle the full load of the power system, which can be a few hundred Amps in larger setups. It also places the caps much farther from the ESC, which can make them less effective at fighting ripple voltage.
Hi I just found this bit of great info on packs I need one for a 6s system for typhon do u still supply the packs thanks
I just posted a message about this on my Facebook page. Great timing!
I am accepting pre-orders for my Gen4 Cap packs. You can get more info including how to order here. facebook.com/rhouse21RCPhysics/
I would recommend one of my 8-cap rH218-8S packs for your car. Prices listed include US shipping via USPS 1st Class Mail.
rhouse21 - RC Physics I dont use facebook how else can I order this pack..thanks
I just updated the video description to include my current line-up and instructions on how to place a direct order through PayPal. I should be shipping the new Gen4s by the end of next week if you'd like to order now.
rhouse21 - RC Physics ok great ill check it out thanks for all the info GodBless..
God bless!
What type board are you using to solder the caps to? Where can I purchase? Im a DYI guy
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't typically share that type of information. I use the proceeds from my sales to help fund projects for my channel. Even though I freely share a LOT of useful RC information, giving away too much about my products ultimately limits my ability to create new content for the community. :-(
Nice work man i dont know if you are still making katpaks but if you are id like 3 for my xlx esc's and i would like to chat with you about my build. Thanks keep it up bro EXCELLENT explaination
If you are on Facebook, feel free to join the RC Physics Sandbox and tell me all about your build. facebook.com/groups/804281383082531/
Have you checked your XLX data logs? They have a pretty big factory cap pack and usually do not need much more capacitance as long as they are being run on good batteries. I don't mind building packs for you, but the XLX can be funny. I few folks have actually seen them fall into a reduced power mode if you connect too much capacitance to them. This is why you really need to look at the data logs and they will tell you how big a ripple voltage problem you have, if you have one at all.
What brand of capacitor do you use if you don't mind
Depending on the size of pack you are planning to build, the best brand for you might be different than the ones I use.
I suggest going to www.digikey.com, looking up the type of capacitors you are thinking of using (rating and voltage class), and you will get a table showing all your options. Sort the table by the expected hours before failure and pick the caps that give yo the best balance between lifetime and cost.
@@RCPhysics I whant to run 6s in my rc boat , tank you for your time 🙏
Nice video. You could really do with the 50v for 6s though. Something to do with voltage spikes that come from the ESC when going on and off or pumping the throttle repeatedly.
Good suggestion, but I found that the higher quality capacitors handle these transient voltage spikes pretty well. That's one of the advantages of going with higher quality parts. The lower quality, generic ones that you can find on Amazon or ebay are a lot less durable, so they don't handle these spikes nearly as well.
@@RCPhysics You always need to use, low ESR Capacitors. The ones that have 105° printed on them. But the voltage spikes for a 6s system will be higher than 35volts. Which means they aren't soaking up the spikes that do the damage
@@51im Here is a link to a datasheet for one of the caps I use to make packs. They are rated for 35V continuous and 44V surges. In reality, they can handle even higher voltages in short spikes, so this grade of caps are fine for this application. As I mentioned, lower grade caps may not hold up as well.
api.kemet.com/component-edge/download/specsheet/ESY108M035AL4AA.pdf
May I know if what size caps I need for my rc?
That depends on a lot of things, actually. Ripple voltage is largely caused by the current load on the motor and the quality of your batteries. The only way to really know how much ripple voltage you are dealing with and whether you need more capacitance in your system is to have a data logging ESC like a Castle Creations ESC.
Better batteries and lighter gearing can often reduce ripple voltage meaning you can get by with less capacitance.
What kind of car do you have and how do you run it? That could help me give you a recommendation.
I have a hobbywing xr8 plus it's a 6S capable 150 amp and I bought some capacitors that are 4100 uf 35v I want to make an external capacitor pack how many capacitors should I use?
This is a tough one. I usually shy away from caps that size because many aren't well suited for cap packs.
Caps have a few properties that can determine how effective they will be at fighting ripple voltage in addition to overall capacitance. You want to look at the capacitor's ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance), its rated lifetime and rated ripple current levels to see if it is a good fit. Many larger caps have very high ESRs which mean they charge and discharge too slowly to effectively fight ripple voltage. Some caps have really low ripple current ratings meaning they can overheat and blow if pushed hard.
@@RCPhysics I tried the capacitors and they work great they're actually at 3300uf and I put two of them together with a diode and the acceleration is extremely smooth and no more wires heat up and the ESC stays really cool the motor warms up because it's a surpass El Cheapo 2200 KV and I was bashing Full Throttle doing speed runs with a 21 tooth pinion gear M1 pitch 49 tooth spur gear accelerating hard ballooning the tires constantly with 6s massive 9000 milliamp 100c 3 cell 2 batteries capacitors did not even warm up one bit and like you said they charge slowly and discharge slowly from just those two capacitors when unplugging the battery it takes almost a second for the ESC to turn off I've noticed capacitor packs from Factory hobbywing use the diodes maybe it's the diode that's making the big difference I just took some battery cables nothing special and then covered it all with liquid tape I did it to all my RC cars
I have some low ESR that I want to use for glitch Buster on my receiver they're 10 volts at 1000uf should I use them?
@@florin26balalau They definitely wouldn't hurt. The fact that it's low ESR may make it a little more effective than its 1,000uF rating might imply. Still, any glitch-buster is better than no glitch-buster.
Most glitch-busters that I've seen are more in the >2,000uF range, so you may think about getting a single larger cap, if you still have any issues after testing it out. You could add a few tohether in parallel, but I probably wouldn't do a multi-cap glitch-buster just because of the added size.
Great video thanks for posting I have the same car and system I have been wondering myself the importance of caps
Boss Dogg Thank you! This one has been a long time coming.
Great informative video. Thanks. However, I would suggest putting a cap pack on that background music.
I've used that music for a long time. Maybe a little too long. I'm switching it up now. 🤣
Informative video bro...nice pacs u make there
great video and great discussion. do you think it would be worthwhile for safety to add a bleed resistor to the circuit?
No one has ever asked me that. Great question!
Once the cap pack is connected to the ESC, the ESC does a really good job of acting as a bleed resistor. In most cases, it completely discharging the Cap Pack, so you really do not have to worry about shocking yourself on the ESC power leads too much. Also, keep in mind that while an 8S system runs at 33V max and a 6S runs at 25V, most ESCs will stay active until the line voltage falls to ~5-6V. After you disconnect the batteries, the ESC will not shut down until the voltage falls below that threshold, so they do a good job making sure there isn't much energy left in the caps.
On a related note, I actually thought about adding some sort of resistor to the system to reduce spark caused by the inrush of power when you connect the batteries, but could not figure out a simple circuit that would not also change the effective resistance the Cap Pack "felt" from the rest of the system. The frequency that a Cap Pack "kicks in" is determined by the overall system resistance, so a resistor of the wrong size would change how effectively a pack filters voltage ripple.
Adding a resistor in series will reduce the effectiveness of the system. I've been looking at inrush circuits and it seems that for the lower voltages of under 11v, it is just not necessary. FOr highter voltages, there are simple ICs available to do inrush or just making a simple resistor-inductor circuit can do the trick.
On a different topic, I've been doing research and I am guessing that adding a small ceramic capacitor in parallel to the electrolytic to further improve power quality as well as total instanteous power. Big capacitors handles low frequency ripple and mains noise and major output load changes. Small capacitors handle noise and fast transients. I believe adding a small ceramic cap wouldn't hurt anything and may reduce ESC loads and temps further as well as motor temperatures and RF noise.
The guys at EVUL Empire have posted some prototypes that use this principle. There is a Facebook group called Ripple Killers where a few of us Cap Pack makers exchange ideas. You should definitely join!
rhouse21 - RC Physics I've got some ideas on circuit topology (layout). I don't like they way the major manufacturers are doing it...for a specific reason. the "ladder" topology (my term I guess) won't be as effective as a slightly modified layout where the positive lead connects to the rail at 1 end of the ladder and the neg lead attaches at the far end of the ladder on the neg rail. does that make sense?
I may need to see a sketch. You can post a pic on the RC Physics Facebook page (facebook.com/rhouse21RCPhysics/) or send me a PM there. You've got me curious.
The cap pack are soldered in parallel or in series? thx
You can actually wire caps either way, but they have different effects on the overall pack performance. Wiring caps in parallel boosts the overall capacity of the pack (aka microfarads) and reduces their Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR). This lets you store more electrons and will boos the amount of current the pack can deliver in a single pulse. This is how most cap packs out there are wired.
Wiring caps in series gives a result that is a little more complicated. Doing this actually REDUCES the capacity of the cap pack, but increases the voltage the pack can handle. It also increases the pack's ESR so it will charge and discharge more slowly. For example, if you wired two 25V 2000uF caps in series, you would end up with a 1000uF 50V cap pack... with 2X the ESR. Honestly, there aren't a lot of good reasons to wire conventional caps in series unless you just want to use some caps you have laying around and don't want to wait for higher voltage caps (which will have lower ESR) to be delivered. However, super-caps are a different story. Most "low cost" super-caps are only available in pretty low voltage ratings, but their capacities are HUGE. So, you can stack up a number of low-voltage super-caps in series to give you the voltage level you need for your application. For example, you could build up a cap pack using seven 4V 15,000,000uF super-caps to make a 28V (6S-capable) 2.1F cap pack. The down side is even "cheap" super caps are still kind of expensive compared to conventional caps.
thx :-) @@RCPhysics
Man you seem to know your stuff. I never knew about these cap packs. I been wondering what them deals are on the aftermarket esc's, Now i know. But an xmaxx owner said he installed a poseidon cap pack in his xmaxx with i think a Castle esc or Max5. Not sure why you would need different ones? Or is this what your explaining in this video? Im gonna be building up my next xmaxx with hopefully a Castle 2028 motor, xlx esc, belt drive etc. Any good reccomendations for powerful high burst aftermarket 4s lipos? Thanks
Thanks for the good words. Pretty much any high powered RC is going to have to worry about ripple voltage. The Castle XLX has a really good external cap pack on it from the factory that should keep it safe. Just check your data logs to make sure everything is good. I'm not as familiar with the Hobby Wing ESCs, but I suspect they could benefit from a good cap pack, too.
My sponsor Venom makes some really nice HUGE 4S packs specifically for the X Maxx. You can find them at www.venompower.com
very nice. they look good.
2cwik4u104 Your back!!! Haven't seen you on here in forever! Thanks for the good words!
im back. have a few new vids posted.
well said you are very very intelligent im impressed you know more than 99% of people
Thank you very much!
Yeh u tried Poseidon and it took ripple to 4.69 but I think lipos need to be replaced,ill send u a picture asap thank you sir
It kinda sucks to have to replace something that is still performing at 80+% (LiPos are expensive!), but getting to the bleeding edge requires everything to be performing at the top of it's game. Good Luck!
man thank you so much im going to try new lipos and gearing to see what happens, your the man
Hey man awesome video..I'm learning how to make these. Can you explain to me what type of pcb boards you are using?
Uhhh...... Hmmmmm.......
Don't take this the wrong way, but you just asked me to explain how you can copy a product that I am selling..... LOL!
No offense, but I have to keep some secrets. ;-)
What I will say is that I used to order my own raw materials and make my own circuit boards but hand. It was a pretty labor intensive process and made the packs take way too long to make. I'm currently working on my Gen4 packs that will do things a little differently to significantly cut build-time.
Thanks for watching, though.
what's up rhouse...I have one single capacitor - that reads "4700 mF. 10 volts". This by itself, is it strong enough to put on my ESC wires?... i'm running 6s batteries in my e-revo 2.0. Base on ur video this one capacitor have more MICRO FARADS than all of ur 4 combine. Please let me no...."Bless up"
There are a couple of issues with using this cap.
1) It is only rated for 10V. Using a cap rated for less than the system voltage you plan to run will cause the cap to blow.
2) Capacitors have a property called ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance). This helps determine how quickly a cap can charge and discharge. Large, single caps tend to have higher ESRs, so they charge more slowly. Using several smaller caps in parallel usually yields a cap pack that can charge and discharge more quickly which makes the cap pack more effective.
@@RCPhysics Got it...Thanks. " Bless up"
How do I know what is the right cap I need?im running Max5 on 8s
Is pack of 4cap 470uf 50v good enough?thanks
For that setup, I'd go with one of my 12-cap 35V packs. That should be plenty of protection for you.
hi i have a DRK esc to run at 2s which capacitor should i use
Are you asking which of my caps would be the best for your rig? I sell a lot of my rH214-8S packs for 2S drag guys. They do a great job supporting the ESC with a pretty compact package. Here is a link to my ebay listing. I sell them for $20 each.
www.ebay.com/itm/152897973437
How do you Kno how many capacitors to add for each pack
There's a little more to it than that. Cap packs fight ripple voltage. The number of caps you will need depend on the rating and performance of the caps you plan to use, the overall power level of your rig, and the quality of your batteries. If you tell me more about your rig I may be able to give some better advice.
Hey my man I see you finally got that video up we talked about ...good video great info get em coming
lamar samuels I've got a big editing backlog, but I should be caught up soon. Thanks for watching!
Hello I'm wondering if one of those cap packs you make would help my vxl3s run alittle cooler?does this help with the esc temps?
How much they help your system is really based on the quality of your LiPo batteries, but eliminating ripple voltage should help your ESC run more efficiently which should help to bring down ESC temps. I can't make any firm promises as to how much of an effect you will see, but they definitely won't hurt anything.
rhouse21 - RC Physics thanks for the response so quick..I run mostly 3s batteries which are turnigys and onyx 2s's..nothin less than 5000mah..would you be able to make a cap pack for me for it?
If you don't run anything larger than 3S, my rH214-6S should do fine. It is listed on eBay for $15. rH214-6S: 4x470uF (1880uF) 35V Cap Pack www.ebay.com/itm/152172204085
bought a pack of 1000uf 35v low ESR Panasonic capictors on amazon... 1 dollar each.. just make it yourself,.......
2000uf at 25v is more than enough and would cost $2 to make.
I prefer to use a larger number of smaller caps to reduce the load on each cap and add some redundancy in case a cap burns out because of abuse.
Like most things, the individual parts aren't very expensive. It all comes down to the time it takes to come up with a good design, build it, and have some assurance that it should work as designed.
Best of luck.
If a CC BEC Pro was installed on a 12s system, should the BEC be soldered between the esc and the Cap Pack?
+13djdave13 That's an interesting question. Capacitors are actually "AC" devices, meaning they respond to fluctuations in voltage. Cap pack's filter out ripple voltage on your power cables by using the Electric Field created by the electrons they store to generate an opposing voltage to attempt to counteract and cancel any rapid voltage fluctuations they "feel" on the power lines. The reason you want to solder the cap pack near the ESC is because all wire has some inherent resistance, so you will have a small amount of voltage drop over the length of the wire. (It's usually VERY small for good wire.) Having the cap pack wired too far "up-stream" would allow for some additional amount of voltage sag between the cap pack and the ESC which could increase the voltage ripple seen by the ESC. You want the power to your BEC to be as clean as possible too, so you definitely want it soldered near where your cap pack is attached. As long as it's close by, I don't think the exact order you wire them matters much.
+rhouse21 - RC Physics Thank you for the knowledge. As you know, what we do can get expensive and I'm trying to play it as safe as possible messing with this much power with electronics. I'm planning on upgrading my electric Rampage MT from 8s max to 12s max and come up with a manual brake solution which I kinda have an idea how I'll attempt on fabricating using a servo, metal horn, and piece of rubber. It may take me a while since the esc I'll be using is on back-order and can take weeks.
So what's a uf? I was looking a capacitors with 4 1000uf capacitors on it is that good a 6s setup.
***** uf is another way of writing microfarad. A Farad is a unit for measuring how many electrons will be stored in a capacitor per volt applied to it. Honestly, there is a reason Castle designed their pack as"only" 880 uf. The larger Cap Packs will store more energy, but that will do nothing for you unless you are beating the snot out of a very large motor or you have weak batteries.
A cap pack will be good protection for your setup, but remember, the XO-1 doesn't ship with a Cap Pack from the factory and it runs pretty well. Also, Castle's packs are 880 uf and seem to work well for most people. 4,000 uf is almost 5 times larger, but I doubt you will get 5X more benefit unless you are doing something "very very special."
Would it help EDF planes to add caps ?
Pretty much all high powered brushless power systems have some level of voltage ripple, but it is only an issue if it exceeds 15 - 20% of your system voltage. If you do not have a data logging ESC, you can start off with a smaller pack like my rH214-8S pack and see if it makes an improvement to ESC temperatures and overall performance.
very informative! but still confused! you say your caps are double the capacity but most i see for sale are between 12000 and 19000 farads, or am i missing something??
This video is nearly 6 years old now. Things were very different back then. LOL!
@@RCPhysics never looked at the date! lol thanks for reply
Good video. quick question. on my 6s system, my data log shows a drop of about 4 volts at full throttle. do you think this is due to not having a cap pack? or is this a battery/esc issue?
Actually, what you are seeing is called "voltage sag". I did a video on this a little while ago. th-cam.com/video/0KLOXEWrOes/w-d-xo.html
In short, even though batteries convert chemical energy into electricity, they have a small amount of resistance to electricity flowing through them. (As you might have guessed, this is called "internal Resistance.") Ohm's law says that when you pass current through a resister, you will see a small amount of voltage drop across that resister. (V_drop = system current * resistance) 4 volts of drop is actually not too bad actually. Many guys see as much as 6-9V of drop. I have another couple of videos that show how to dig into your data logs to get clews about how your power system is doing.
th-cam.com/video/0DJSKSlGdq4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/b_iVQyl0Ags/w-d-xo.html
Be careful crunching the data, though because it can take a little while to get a good feel for how to interpret the data. For example, 4V of sag ca mean that your batteries are VERY good and manage your system's load very well OR it an mean that your system is very lightly loaded and you are not pulling much current implying you have a LOT of tuning headroom.
I hope this helps!
so I guess my question is. do I need a capacitor pack, and if so which one of yours do you recommend? looking at the data log, the most sag I can see is about 5.5 volts.
How much ripple voltage are you seeing? If it is more than 10-15% of the system voltage (more than 2.5 - 4V), you should probably be running a cap pack. I run my 8 cap rH218-8S packs on my MMX ESCs and the ripple voltage dropped from 5+V to ~10V with some pretty high current loads. Remember, your batteries have a lot to do with your overall ripple level, so you may end up with a different number than me in the end, but it should be a significant improvement. If that's not enough, I'll be willing to exchange that pack for a 12-cap rH2112-8S, but I suspect the 8-cap version will handle your system fine.
rhouse21 - RC Physics can you give me the link to buy it on eBay. I'll also do a before and after video to show the improvement.
Here's a link to my ebay auctions.
www.ebay.com/sch/Toys-Hobbies/220/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&_ssn=rhouse21&_sac=1
I need a cap pack on the mamba monster x. Ripple current is a bit too high
I'll be making a batch of Gen 4 8-cap packs this weekend if you're interested.
Great video man! Very good info. Curious if you use high or low ESR capacitors for this? Cool tower to tower too! I like that
My current designs incorporate several features to try to minimize ESR. Lower ESR means faster charging & discharging.
Thanks for watching!
I got the boxer configuration (two caps on each side...4 total) these really are the best I've used yet. I'm just using it on the STREET ELIMINATOR build. It causes a major difference at launch and top speed!🔥💣💥💥💥Major difference.....If ur not using a good cap pack you are not running a competitive 132ft. eliminator drag car.
Thanks for the great words! Feel free to post pix of your install in the RC Physics Sandbox Facebook group
Will adding cap packs make your R/c slower??
A well designed cap pack should never make your car slower except in some very extreme circumstances. In general, adding extra capacitance allows your ESC to better handle the instantaneous load of feeding the motor high current levels. This should also let your ESC run more efficiently as well, so there should really be no down side.
rhouse21 - RC Physics Ok thanks for the info..!😊 It makes sense..!👍👍
hey i burnt out a rx8 teking esc all that blew was a capacitor i cant find how to replace it they have plastic on the bottom not sure if you seen one
I'm not familiar with that ESC. There should be some numbers on the capacitors that tell you what their capacity is They are probably somewhere between 200uF and 600uF. Do you see anything like that on them? These are probably power capacitors, so you can most likely run it safely by wiring up a good external cap pack at least as large in capacity as the stock capacitor(s).
Thanks for the info bro. Great vid
tony smith Thanks! I had fun making it.
Would one of these cap packs be too much for a 6s xmaxx system
Not at all. With all the issues the 6S XMaxx ESCs were having, it's probably not a bad idea to have some extra protection.
rhouse21 - RC Physics wer to order frome
I am currently out of stock, but should have a new generation of 8S capable packs ready to sell around X-Mas. Watch the channel and the RC Physics Facebook page for updates. facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics
Nice work my brother
Hi rhouse21'' i need you to make me the8x470 microfarads=3730 microfarads capacitors i need two packs of them with the xt90 connectors on both ends male and female with 10AWG wires tell me how could i purchase them? Thank's!
Sorry for the delay. I plan to have a new batch of my stock packs by the end of the week, so I should be able to rig up 2 custom packs you early next early next week. PM me on facebook to talk pricing and payment. facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics
I am ready to pay for what i asked you to make for me hit me up.
I am ready to pay for those items,
facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics
hello sir can brushed use the cap packs?
I think so, but it may depend on your ESC.
The ESC's output to a brushed motors is just DC voltage, but the ESC may be using a "switching voltage converter" to create the output signal.
Still, brushed motors can't handle the level of current that brushless motors do, so there may not be as much benefit in real-world usage.
@@RCPhysics owh ok ... thanks for sharing the knowledge ... and what about glitch buster ... there have benefit to brushed motor sir?
Glitch busters really just protect the BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit) from "brown outs" caused by accessories (like big digital servos) pulling too much current on the receiver-power bus. They can help a lot if your ESC doesn't have a very robust Rx power supply / BEC.
@@RCPhysics owh i see... thanks very much sir .now i understand 🙏
Good point of view liked and subbed
Thanks!
Hello my friend, will this work on hobbywing max 6?
I have variants that will work on that ESC. This is an old video, so my current designs are a lot nicer.
I just do custom builds now mostly now, but check out my ebay listing to see what I can do. www.ebay.com/itm/152897973437
I have a Arrma Kraton running 5200 50c 4s And at times drop in 2 5600 75c 3sPower Hobby battery’s And stock BLX185 esc And 2050kv motor. What would be the best choice for this ?
I should have a batch of my 8-Cap rH218-8S packs ready this weekend. One of those would probably work really well for you.
The buggy one they have front and rear diff what oil i should use for speed the high ratio one or low ratio one
Diff oil gives your RC diffs a lot of the properties of a limited slip differential in a full-sized car. Higher weight oil deduces the amount of differential action you will get while running. This can dramatically change the handling of your car. A buggy probably came with very light oil all around to help you get tight cornering. Drag cars and speed runners usually run very heavy oil or lock the diff so they do not "diff out" (spin one wheel) under hard acceleration. I talk more about this in the attached video link. Good luck! th-cam.com/video/fcBzFNziRoE/w-d-xo.html
Nice update !!!!
MyMoe12 Thank you, sir!
Does this help with battery plug heat
It might, but if you're plug is getting really hot you may have another problem.
Excessive plug heating is a sign of at least 2 potential issues.
1) You may have a bad solder joint that has increased the resistance of your battery connectors. This would cause the plug to heat up much more than it should at high current levels. Or...
2) Your connectors are undersized for the current levels your power system is pulling. Basically, your connectors should have the same overall resistance level (or better) as all the other components in your power system. Undersized connectors are higher resistance than the wires they are soldered to and make an electrical bottleneck which can create a LOT of heat. I learn this lesson the hard way and had one connector become so hot that it the soldered itself from the power system during a speed run. 🤯
In my experience, connectors using 5mm bullets are good to peak loads of 100-200A. Castle 6.5mm Connectors are fine for ~300A. If you are pulling 400A or more, you probably should be running 8mm bullets.
A good rule of thumb is to use battery connectors with bullets at least as big as the bullet connectors on your motor. That way you know the batteries aren't an electrical bottleneck.
@@RCPhysics thanks man i upgaded from the deans plug that melted i had no idea my mt10 actually went so fast major power restriction there. My deans wa completely melted
I actually started off running Dean's connectors too and learned a pretty hard lesson from them. They are fine for low power applications, but they have no place in the type of running that I do on all of my larger cars. It took me a little while (and more research than you'd expect)to figure out that Dean's connectors are only rated to 65 amps. That's it. Just 65 amps. So think about all the lipo batteries that ship with Dean's connectors and all the people who innocently use them in the WRONG applications.
@@RCPhysics between the connectors and the cap pack video i just justified a soldering bench purchase lol! Thanks for the help
LOL! Happy to help.
Thank u for replying brother but what i mean i should use in speed high ratio oil in front and rear diff or low one
Ahhh. I see. Traxxas recommends using ~100k diff Fluid in the front and ~30-50k in the rear of the XO-1. That's probably a good place to start for a speed run car. Lots of guys lock the diffs completely, but I like the cars to be able to turn when I want them to.
Dont ESCs have capacitors built into them anyway? It seems like your almost overclocking the ESC by enabling the currect boost
+PS4 Custom Gamer ESC's do have capacitors in them, but they are only sized for the average RC'er pulling a relatively small amount of current in short bursts (like accelerating out of a corner in a race). Speed runners can pull 200+ Amps for several seconds, which is a MASSIVE amount of current for a relatively long time. Cap packs work with the batteries in these extreme cases to make sure the ESC sees a good, clean power source.
Most batteries can't handle pushing that much current without having pretty large dips in voltage that hit with each power pulse. This is called "ripple voltage." Better battery packs will have lower ripple voltage, but you should expect every battery to have some ripple voltage in these power ranges.
If the ripple voltage is more than ~10% of the battery's nominal voltage, it can damage your ESC. Well sized Cap Packs act as filters that squash the voltage ripple and provide good clean power so the ESC can perform optimally. The interesting wrinkle is that larger capacitors charge and discharge at a slower rate. This property is called a capacitor's "time constant". So, if you have individual caps that are too large, they will not be able to filter higher frequency ripple voltage (like what you'd see at the top of a motor's RPM range on a speed run). The answer is to use a lot of smaller capacitors that add up to the overall capacitance you are looking for.
In short, the main point of a cap pack is to insure clean power to the ESC. They do store energy as well, but that is generally a secondary effect. Put another way, if the current capability of a battery is so low that it needs a cap pack to act as a secondary battery, you probably should be looking for a better battery.
+PS4 Custom Gamer This eNos device has a circuit that allows a capacitor bank to sit in parallel to the battery to charge to the same voltage as the power system, then it switches to essentially put the capacitor in series with the battery to temporarily boost the voltage of the system, giving a speed boost. This effect is only momentary though, and the capacitor will quickly discharge until the system voltage had returne to "normal." Also, the rate of discharge is highly dependent on the current load on the system. So, on a 2S 1/10 scale touring car at parking lot speeds, the current load on the system is probably pretty low (maybe 50 - 70 Amps). The eNOS device can give a pretty noticeable "pop" in performance here without putting a tremendous amount of strain on the system. Scale that to 6S or 8S though and things get a little different.
For me, the problem with an eNOS like device for high powered (6S or 8S) speed runs is that it's tough to make something like that scale in a way that makes more sense than just running more battery cells in a high current application. I have heard rumors of guys using a similar device to boost speed on speed runs, but the difference in current load at 30-40 mph (50-70 km/h) and 100 mph (160 km/h) is HUGE. A capacitor bank big enough to do the same job on a speed run would be comparable in size to an extra 2S or 3S battery. True, I may be able to get a few seconds of 6S power from a "4S" power system, but I personally would prefer to use the extra weight to just carry more battery power.
Good day, sir. Nice video. So 8 pieces of 35v 470uF caps would be enough for 8s speed runs? 8s is max 33.6volts
It honestly depends on the caps, the system current levels, and the quality of your batteries. Lower current levels and better batteries drastically reduce system ripple voltage.
If you go to a good electronics web site like www.digikey.com or www.mouser.com, you can pull up the detailed specs such as ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance). The lower the ESC, the faster the caps will charge and discharge, so the more effective they will be. A few 'small' high quality low-ESR caps may outperform 10 high uF "junk caps" from Ebay or Amazon.
Also, you should look at other specs such as expected lifetime and ripple current capability.
@@RCPhysics thanks sir. Im using 2x 4000mah 100c 4s lipo. I will refer to that link you've given
Cool update!
RC Performance Studio Thanks!
can this be use on vxl-3s
These can be used on any brushless system.
I Just Installed Them Yesterday
hello sir this capacitor pack help per heating motor or help to down temprature
I've been told that a good cap pack will do both of those things because it helps the ESC run more efficiently.
good vid. but using higher V caps cant hurt. kind of like having a bigger cup...you can have more drink without spillage
Actually, there is another secondary benefit. As I mentioned in linked video, (th-cam.com/video/cBQXZ3aEh5k/w-d-xo.html ), one of the reasons caps fail is that they can heat up internally while surpressing ripple voltage. Higher voltage caps are physically larger and have more surface area to shed heat, so they should run cooler under the same conditions.
Thanks for the comment!
You had me at da dat dat dat bing bing bing, but you lost me when you started talking to your cars like they were people.
The community LOVES to treat my cars as "stars" of my channel and they all have their own fan bases. When in Rome...
It was a good video and explained to me the role capacitors play. I enjoyed it. Especially the dat dat dat bing bing bing part lol. I may have to subscribe.
Please do!
What if I Run a 50c 5000mah 4s lipo mamba monster 2 slash 4x4 do I need a cap pack
saud al abdullah A cap pack may not always be needed, but it shouldn't hurt. A Mamba Monster 2 ESC can pull up to 120 Amps continuous and quite a bit more in very short "bursts". The cap pack will fill in the "burst" demand making it easier for the battery to keep up with the ESC's power needs. Not all batteries are created equal (sometimes you can't trust manufacturers' C-ratings). A good hi-C lipo should be able to keep up with the continuous load (Castle recommends 25C or higher), but they still need a short time to 'ramp up" to a really high burst load. A good quality cap pack should help everything work better and provide fairly cheap protection for your electronics, so I say go for it.
Thank you very much I stick with traxxas and hpi batteries
Oh and if I run 20t pinion and 54 spur with a Center diff on a mamba monster 2 slash 4x4 4s how fast will I go ? I have the j concepts scalpel body with xo1 wheels
You can use the website to below to calculate your top speeds, but you probably should drop the center diff and either go with an E-Revo/Slayer slipper clutch or use a slipper delete unit. The center diff is really intended for off-road racing. The problem is that if you start to spin your wheels, the digg could send all your power to the spinning wheels and kill your run.
scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/index.html
I'll try the Center diff and the stock slipper clutch and see which I like best it depends on the car not all are the same most of the people I know run a Center diff and some use a slipper clutch (stock) anyways thanks for the website I'll check it out !
can you run cap packs on a sensored esc
+nts 323 Cap packs will work on any ESC since they just help to condition the power flowing into the ESC. Hard acceleration pulls a lot of current. This can induce a "ripple voltage" that can cause problems. Cap packs' primary purpose are to reduce or eliminate ripple voltage, but a large enough cap pack will also help augment the batteries in some situation.
I hope this helps.
Thank you👍
Would you fit a cap pack on a xlx2 just as a precaution or no? K8s 1100kv motor.
I've sold a number of custom cap packs for XLX2 setups just for extra protection. Technically, you can't really have too much capacitance... unless it starts to cause such an in-rush current spark when you plug in the batteries that you are starting to damage your connectors.
That said, the XLX2 is a pretty stout ESC. Check your data logs first to see how bad your ripple is. If it's over 3-4V on 8S, you might want to consider a cap pack just as a precaution.
Thanks for watching!
@@RCPhysics awesome so I use qs8's on everything I own, I was thinking about just putting one on to make sure I n ver ripple I drive my k8s exb 1/5 for sometimes 12 seconds full tilt in park areas and castle said I don't need one but I wanted to just for added protection. Would you use the 8s cap pack or the 12s one? Going to buy it now at hobby shop! I applied the fast response! +1 sub here!!
@@never-stock-rc2968 You don't get any additional benefit using a cap pack of a higher voltage than you actually need. Cap sizes are measured in Farads which are defined as the number of electrons the cap can hold per volt applied. So a 6S, 8S, and 12S cap pack will all hold the exact same number of electrons on 6S. It's like buying a 5 gallon bucket to move 1 gallon of water. 😎
@@RCPhysics ok because I accidently bought the 12s castle cap pack instead of the 8s one. So I'm ok to run the 12s cap on an 8s system then? Thanks man I am it so much!!!
@@never-stock-rc2968 Yup. The 12S pack should work fine, but you might want to sell it, buy an 8S version, and pocket the price difference. 😆
why did you solder in Parallel instead of series?
Capacitors add in a way "opposite" to resistors in a circuit. connecting them in series actually reduces their overall capacitance, but increases the voltage capability of the resulting "capacitor network." Connecting them in parallel lets you sum the capacitance of the caps, but the network will be limited to the voltage of the lowest rated cap in the network.
thank you. that was helpful
I made 6 capacitor pack. But when I contacted it to the ESC 6S BLX 185 . It starts to caging or it's like if there is a power leaking. I contacted the + to + and - to - side. Is there something wrong? or what should I do?
Thank you
What voltage rating are the caps? They should be at least 35V for a 6S system. Also, are you sure non of the caps have gone bad. Bad caps in an external cap pack can cause the ESC to behave strangely, too.
It was my mistake honestly. I did not connect it right. But now I got it right. It is day and night difference.
I would highly recommend 4x 2200uf capacitors 25v +, your 4x configuration isnt doing much
There's actually a lot more to cap pack design / selection than cap size. Actually, sometimes going too big can actually hurt your performance. The 4x470uF configuration is actually 33% larger than the Traxxas XO-1's stock cap pack and is fine for "lower power" set ups with good quality batteries. Higher capacity power systems need more "help", but you have to consider factors such as total system power, operating voltage, battery Internal Resistance (IR) and the Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR)of the individual caps in the cap pack.
I'm going to be filming a Cap Pack 201 update video soon to talk about some of these things, but trust me, my 4x470uF packs low-ESR cap pack are a lot more effective than you might think, especially on lower-power rigs.
Will It Also Prevent The lipo Batteries From Puffing Up???
Batteries puff because they have sustained internal damage. A good cap pack should help your batteries see a more stable load that should help to protect them from damage, but a cap pack can only take so much abuse before it starts to take damage itself.
I think a good cap pack will help, but there are a LOT of other factors at work. The cap pack will work harder with lower quality batteries. The lower quality the battery, the harder the cap pack will work to try to insure clean power, so the more likely you are to blow caps in your pack. If your packs are puffing, they are being overworked. Adding a cap pack would probably help, but that would just be a "band aid". The pack will probably fail if you keep pushing it that hard. Puffing is a sign that it's time to upgrade to better cells..
Thanks for the great question!
Ooh, WOW!! Thanks For Answer.. I Learned Something New.. I Just Ordered A Cap Pack From Castle Creations, Hope It's Good Enough For My X Maxx Esc?
That may be a little small for that ESC. Are you running the stock ESC and is it the 6S or 8S version? The castle cap pack is for 6S max but it's really meant for much smaller cars (1/10 or 1/8 scale) with ~100 Amp ESC's, so just be careful there. The X-Maxx is a pretty big machine and that ESC probably pushes quite a bit more amperage that might overwhelm that cap pack.
I would recommend one of my rH218-8S packs, but I'm out of stock right now. Check back with me in about a week, though.
rhouse21 - RC Physics Ooh I See.. I Have The Xmaxx 8s Version, But Only Using Traxxas 5000mah 25c 6s Lipo Batteries... Cant Afford The 8s Lipo Batteries.. Do You Sell Them On Ebay?
I sell my cap pack on Ebay. I've been slow getting my latest batch ready for sale though. I don't sell batteries, however.
Man thanks for information alot need that.
which is better a high uf or low uf for rc cars
The uF value of the individual caps sets the RPM/current level where the Cap pack starts filtering your system. Larger uF caps will kick in at lower frequencies, but will not be able to keep up s much as frequencies climb very high. More caps in parallel help to manage higher current loads in the system. One of my 8 cap rH218-12S cap packs would provide great protection for a 300+ Amp Castle XL-Series 8S ESC while a 4 cap rH214-6S cap would be enough for a most 3-6S systems rated for ~100-150 Amps.
How do we get intouch with you
The easiest way to contact me is though my facebook page facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics. If you just want to see what cap packs I have on hand, just check my ebay site at www.ebay.com/usr/rhouse21
Brother I need two caps that I need .. They r the ones on the XL inside on power side . If u know or can help please hit me up !! RCFL brother good stuff !!
JM Speck How comfortable are you with electrical stuff like fine soldering and circuit testing? If the capacitors are just blown, you can probably find 2 of about the right value at Radio Shack for a couple of bucks (literally) and swap them out. You can probably find them cheaper online, but you'd have to wait for them and you may need to buy a lot more than you really need (like I did in this video).
This job shouldn't be too hard if that is all that's wrong. What concerns me is that some other component on the circuit board may have gotten fried after the caps blew and you could now have a ticking time-bomb that could start a fire. Have you called Castle for a warranty claim? They are usually pretty good about that and even have an "out of warranty exchange" program where you can buy a replacement ESC at a deep discount. I'm just worried that with the power you tend to push, you might get a repeat of mrtuner89 's electrical fire.
RCFL, and stay safe!
If 35v capacitors are the standard on the xL2 and their other products for the xL2, is it ok to use 50v or even 63v capacitors to create a Cap-Pack?
I have a 12s ESC and figure I need it for my 8s and 6s rc's too.
2200uf 63v caps
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00ERGSQ8G/ref=psd_mlt_bc_B00ERGSQ8G
The only downside of using higher voltage caps is that they physically larger. A Farad is a measurement of how many electrons a cap will store at a given voltage. Higher voltage caps are bigger to have room to store the extra electrons, but they are no difference in performance at lower than rated voltages. I rate my cap packs conservatively to have extra margin for random voltage spikes and such. I use 35V Caps in my "6S" packs and 63V caps in my "10S" packs, even though they will probably handle higher cell counts just fine. Be careful about using really large valued caps. They change the frequency that will be filtered and may not actually do anything if you use the wrong value. Check out a recent "rhouse Tech Corner" on the RC Physics Facebook page for more info. facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics
Google "passive low-pass filter" to get even more info on this. There are a few good tutorials out there. That and my "Tech Corner" should get you in the right neighborhood. You can wire Cap packs in series or parallel. Wiring in series uses bigger valued caps of lower voltages ratings to create a capacitor network with a lower "effective" capacitance but higher voltage capability. Wiring in caps parallel increases the "order" of the network, making the filter "stronger" but requires higher voltage rated caps.
+rhouse21 - RC Physics I really appreciate all the information. I'll definitely link up on FaceBook.
Oops I installed the Poseidon cap and it seems to help
great info.
Thank you!
i need two cap pack for 6s, how much
Are you on Facebook? Send me a message at facebook.com/rhouse21rcphysics.
THANK YOU FOR THE INFO ON CAPS
...And thank you for watching!
How Would I Know If My Cap Packs Are Working?
This is a simple question with a not-so-simple answer. In a nutshell, there are 3 ways to tell if your cap pack is working.
1.) A good cap pack should filter out system ripple, which protects the ESC from damage and can make it perform a bit more efficiently. Many guys say this will result in lower run-temps and more overall power. Soooo, you *might* be able to "feel" that your cap pack is working by noting any differences in system power and/or run-temps. The problem is that a good ESC may not need a whole lot of help under most conditions, so you may not feel any difference at all. This is a tough one because it's all based on "feel" with no data. I have guys who claim that my Cap Packs completely changed the behavior of their cars.... but On'y a couple of guys have actually been able to show me any data confirming anything.
2.) Speaking of data, if you have a data logging ESC or an EagleTree data logger, you can look at your data logs with and without your cap pack installed and see if it is lowering your system ripple. This is about as clear as proof comes, but some guys are a little intimidated by digging through data logs. Here is a video I did a little while back that can guide you through that process. th-cam.com/video/0DJSKSlGdq4/w-d-xo.html
3.) So, lets say you do not have a data logging ESC. You are not out of luck. You can actually get a fairly inexpensive multi-meter with capacitor measurement capability for $20-$40. Ideally, you would want to measure the capacitance in the ESC before you install a cap pack and after you have it installed. I wire all my cap packs with a quick connector so I can easily disconnect it from the ESC and measure it directly, but measuring it while connected to the ESC works too, as long as you know how much to deduct for the ESC's internal caps. This method will also tell you if you have blown any caps in your pack, which does happen over time with enough abuse. Here is another video I did showing how to take these measurements. th-cam.com/video/cBQXZ3aEh5k/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching!
just got two of them off ebay bro!
Thanks, Bro!!! They'll be headed your way shortly. ;-)
He's packing !
+HeliZero Definately!
Are you still around for a question
Of course. Wassup?
@@RCPhysics with caps can you have to much? Could I use 2 3300 uf 25 v on a 3/4s system?
Good caps have a spec sheet that publishes their ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) or impedance. This determines how quickly the capacitors can charge and discharge. Larger capacitors usually have higher ESRs. If the ESR is too high, the capacitor will not be able to charge and discharge fast enough to keep up with the power pulses from the ESC.
Many named brand capacitors in the 500 to 2000 microfarad range will usually have ESR values low enough to keep up, but the only way to really be sure is to look up the manufacturer's data sheet and do the math. However, if you are using a data logging ESC like a Castle, you can experiment with different capacitors and see how well they are working by reviewing the data logs.
@@RCPhysics thanks for your time and knowledge!
No problem!
Very helpful thank u
Your welcome! I'm happy you liked it.
Great video, thanks for this. I just wish you would not put the music in. It gets harder to hear you with that annoying music in the background.
Sorry about the audio. This was when I was still trying to figure out production, so the audio mix could have been better. I still have the "annoying music", but I've retied to make the audio much clearer in my more recent videos.
Thanks for the feedback!
Sorry I should not have used the word "annoying", I meant no disrespect at all. You have great videos and content.
No offense taken at all! Actually a lot of people have commented that the music gets a little old after a while. I've considered removing it, but I have a large family and it actually helps to mask some of the commotion that is usually happening in the background while I'm filming. ;-)
Thanks for watching and I really do appreciate the feedback.
I need one
I'm still making them. Just let me know what you need.
Here's what happened ---> th-cam.com/video/gidvd7c2SGY/w-d-xo.html
That's pretty insane!
Lol...Thanks... it sure was fun!
Way too much money bro way too much you just learn how to make them
This video is almost 4 years old now. I was actually one of the first independent guys making these, My new ones are MUCH nicer, but I decided to leave this video up for educational purposes.
Poor vid title
I'm open to suggestions. Do you have a recommendation for a better title?
Cap packs? A quick summary on what they do and how they work. For whatever reason when i saw 101 i thought it was going to be a how to vid with soldering ect. Im prob alone on that so i wouldnt pay to much mind to my comment. I do enjoy your channel and its content i have learned quite a bit from you and i need to thank you for that. Take care friend
@@hardcorehobbys381 I actually used to have a longer, more descriptive title for this, but apparently TH-cam cuts off long titles on mobile devices, so I shortened it up to Cap Packs 101. Just another example of everything in life ultimately being a compromise. 😣