Here's some comments that have been incredibly informative (sorted by time of entry): *dorelse* Yeah, glad you're safe! That wasn't Black Ice though...just regular old glare ice...its been compacted by vehicles and the sun heats it up just enough that it melts a tiny bit and refreezes into super slick, shiny (or glare) ice. We see it all the time in the Midwest and tires aren't gonna help much when you're on that kind of incline trying to brake. Only option is to either keep going, or turn around. That is some serious stuff you just did! *salsanacho* To make it easier to get chains on, if you're able.... one trick is to bring a block of wood and drive the wheel on top of it. It'll make it easier to get the chains under your wheel to allow you to wrap them around the tire. Also note that Falken Wildpeaks tend to run larger than KO2s or other AT tires. That might contribute to your chains not fitting. *Brandon Czer (not a comment)* Btw-I just learned, go 1 size up on chains if All Terrains tires and/or E rated, per the company I just bought chains from.
Yeah, glad you're safe! That wasn't Black Ice though...just regular old glare ice...its been compacted by vehicles and the sun heats it up just enough that it melts a tiny bit and refreezes into super slick, shiny (or glare) ice. We see it all the time in the Midwest and tires aren't gonna help much when you're on that kind of incline trying to brake. Only option is to either keep going, or turn around. That is some serious stuff you just did!
Thanks dorelse! You're spot on! I didn't know what to call it, but you're description is 100% what I experienced and observed. I agree, I don't think there was anything that would have helped with traction besides something that could claw into the glass like ice. I actually took a shovel to it, and it wouldn't break like regular ice, it was like I was chipping into hard rock. I'm going to have to add your comment into a pin collective pinned post. Very good info, thank you!
I've encountered it, too (out in the woods in NW Mt), @dorelse's description is right on. If you can walk on it, you can just push your rig where you want it to be, it's so slippery!! I've pushed my Accords and even a 3/4t ford flatbed work truck - easy peasy. Just pushes like on a flat furniture dolly, back on the road, even u-turns! And that was even w/studded tires on the Accords, lol.
Even wilder, if the temps had dropped below freezing & humidity had gone down, that slippery glare ice could refreeze drier, and almost be kind of sticky. I couldn't make it up friend's very steep very windy driveway during the day when the snow was a bit 'wet'. Got back down, drove to show a friend the road which was glare ice..... couldn't turn around so got out & pushed the studded-tire v6 accord thru a u-turn, drove over & parked at the bottom of the driveway. After dark, the temps had dropped, the snow had 'dried out', walked down to the car & drove her right up the hill, no problemo. So temps, humidity can have a lot to do w/snow & ice! Glad you're feeling better!
I must say. This was the most thrilling video of your that I have watched, You are a normal guy but I must say this was crazy watching you losing traction on the snow I live in Winter land, I am happy you are safe
Dang definitely a clencher! Also very good point about awd drive doesn't mean awd stop! That got me thinking the only vehicles I know that can actively spin the wheels backward are the Acuras sport hybrids which from my knowledge allows one of the electric motors to spin reverse of the vectoring wheel to truly pivot...now let's see if Honda × GM will create some kind of "ivtm4-e"
On this kind of ice (someone commented that it's called "glare ice"), no AWD system will make a difference. Chains or maybe a super sticky snow tire will be the only thing that will help. The best way I could describe it is there is zero traction on this surface.
You need a studded tire! Chains suck because you have to take off and on. 80 percent of off road tires have stud holes in them. You have to install studs before mounting tires. With studded snow tires on my 95 civic, i could drive through snow up to headlights, about 14” if snow!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring and HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU!! It lingers man. I’m on my 6th day and I’m still feeling slight chills. And hopefully I get my result from my Covid test today, but I’m sure it’s Covid 😂
I was in my pseudo 4Lo, my first gear is 20.4:1. I've been down snowy hills almost 3 times as steep, and 1st gear did a good job to straighten the vehicle out. This stuff, it was so incredibly slippery, and 1st gear didn't seem to make a difference.
Yup, I just experienced this myself just this past week around Shasta and Lassen. Normally I never travel in the mountains without my Bridgestone Blizzaks but I thought since I recently purchased AT tires that are severe snow rated that I would be OK. Well lesson learned and I will never do that again because all terrain tires whether they are severe Snow rated or not just don't have the ability to cling to ice like true winter tires
@@JonDZ_Adventuring well if that is true then I would not be able to drive the streets of Portland in what they call ice rain. Or up Mt. Hood on solid sheets of ice. Last year I was traveling down Mt. Rainer and the person in front of me had chain on and he did a 180. Also last year my wife and I traveled to Glacier Wyoming in the winter and also camped near Yellowstone Montana. We did a bit of winter camping in both areas on snowy icy dirt roads with creek crossing which again were solid ice driving out the creeks and we never had issues. I have been using Bridgestone Blizzaks since 1997 with only awesome results. Only downside with those tires is they are so soft they can wear out quickly on pavement when temps get warm. I live in California now which is the reason I didn't throw on my Blizzaks for this last trip but like I already said I won't do that again. I wish I could give advice on other dedicated winter tires but I have never tried out anything else but I have debated on trying out the Michelin X-ice or General tires. When I visit my friends in Bend, OR it seems that nearly everybody there is using studs but again I am not slipping . I can only assume if someone is saying that dedicated none studded winter tires would not work then they didn't have Blizzaks. Studs definitely have their place though but I am now traveling 6-8 hrs to even get to the snow. Love your channel and I hope to catch up with you guys one day.
@@andreasm2882 scan the comment sections. People are saying that they can move and rotate their cars around by hand even with studded tires. Glare ice is what they’re calling it.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yes, I have read through the comments sections and I totally get what glare ice is lol. Now try driving in freezing rain, this is rain that freezes on contact and this is the worst type of ice anyone should attempt to drive on, it's even worse than glare ice and black ice. I have done this with Blizzaks. You can chose to either believe me or not.
Yikes. That whole video gave me anxiety. That feeling when you start sliding is so uncomfortable and you have almost zero time to think. It was very smart of you to slow down as much as you did.
Slip and slide mountain pass! That was pretty tricky I could tell you had to concentrate a lot. Glad you guys made it down and up with no issues. That long sled ride was intense!!
The plan was to “relax” at the Hot Springs, but oh boy! That was the exact opposite 🤣. I’m Happy to be alive at the start of 2022, happy New Years Zack!
Scary bro I be afraid going off the road can’t drive on ice I slide my element too same tires as yours but does good in the snow but glad u and the family was all safe and good 👍 happy new year bro
To make it easier to get chains on, if you're able.... one trick is to bring a block of wood and drive the wheel on top of it. It'll make it easier to get the chains under your wheel to allow you to wrap them around the tire. Also note that Falken Wildpeaks tend to run larger than KO2s or other AT tires. That might contribute to your chains not fitting.
AWESOME ADVICE!!! I may have even been able to use a rock. I was 1 inch from getting the chains on, I was also aired down to 20 psi, which made it hard to get around the larger foot print. I’m going to have to make a pin post and mention what you said. Lots of good info from these comments! Thanks! Have a happy new Year
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yeah airing down exacerbates the problem if you have tight chains. I just plop the block of wood into the bag with the chains so it's always there. Can also use something similar in size like a regular sized brick.
@@salsanacho a friend of mine said he spoke to a tire chain company and they said to "go 1 size up on chain if All terrain tires and/or E rated". I have 255/70R18 tires, so I'll be buying chains for 255/75R18.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks, makes sense! I wish you could buy tire chains based on the actual tire dimensions instead of the tire size ratings, which can vary between manufacturers.
Just found you chanel and started watching last night! Wondering how I am able to calculate my crawl ratio when the information for the transfer case and diff are not readily online. I have a 2012 highlander (non hybrid) I love how you always include crawl ratios
14.8:1 Search for “gear ratio”, and you should find your info. Car and Driver is a good resource. www.caranddriver.com/toyota/highlander/specs/2012/toyota_highlander_toyota-highlander_2012
It would not, lower gearing will help more, but even that wasn't making a difference. What worked was entering slow, 1-2 mph. I will be ordering new snow chains after this incident.
It blows me away how many otherwise well informed people don’t understand that dedicated winter tires absolutely blow 3peak rated all-terrains out of the water in icey conditions. It is Not. Even. Close. I run Pirelli scorpion AT+’s in the summer and love them, but once winter hits my Michelin X-ice snow SUV’s make them look like racing slicks
Hey Jon, If you haven't bought replacement chains yet have you considered a tire sock? I think they're a little more than chains but serve the same purpose with lots of advantages: Noise, packability, and ease of install and they seem to test well in reviews I've seen. Plus they're lower profile versus traditional chains or even Z chains and I'm not sure how much fender room you have with those big meaty wheels. (: Would compliment your set up well with ATs. Only need them like in situations shown here. EDIT: After I made this comment my first video suggested is a TFL video about said sock. The Matrix has me ):
A lot of people recommended I get true tire chains. I went and bought a pair that I plan on putting on my rear tires. Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll consider buying a set for my front tires. I’ll be heading to Lake Tahoe at the end of this month, and I hear they have alot of snow (and ice).
Had a similar situation over the weekend in Mendocino NF. Whole line of 15+ F150s fx4s stuck trying to drag their SxS trailers uphill on ice ..took over 2 hrs to get them out. By the time I got there the entire road was rutted, frozen over mud. We got up without so much as a pause in the Forester wilderness. 4x4 owners tend to overestimate their capabilities in snow/ice...in reality, locking diffs are actively detrimental in those conditions...you *want* AWD, not part time 4wd.
nothing beats actual snow-tires. On the east we get snow tires with STUDS... dunno why snows work better than AT but AT don't come close to snow-tires. Keep a set to swap in if you plan on doing this often... then swap out when you're done with the snow
Actual winter tires have softer compound that stay softer colder and more small jagged siping to grip ice, and a lot of winter tires have little holes to remove surface water so it reduces slipping.
Hey, liked the video. I had a similar situation on a shelf road here in Washington last winter when it started snowing while we were on the Stampede Pass to Greenwater trail. At the time, I was on Falken Wildpeaks also. Just wondering if you aired down while you were sliding around? I think that would have helped me in my situation. Anyways, I have since changed to Kenda Klever RTs which have been great this last snowstorm we had here in Seattle. Well, keep up the good vids. Planning a road trip in May down through Cali and back up through Anzo Borrego, Joshua Tree, and Sequoia National Forest. Maybe run into you on the trails. Lol.
Yes, I was aired down. Works great for deep snow! But the ice was super slippery. I took my shovel and tried to whack it. I was very very hard. I don’t think anything would help there besides chains or traction boards (like the Maxtrax, not the cheap ones I had 🤣). You need to hit me up when you visit, let’s go on a trip!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yeah, that looked super slippery. LOL. For sure, I will hit you up when it gets closer to May and see what you got planned. Glad to see your channel growing and I wish you all the success!!
It was a domino effect of things. I had too much weight resting on the cargo basket, which was extended out on the swing out hitch receiver. While driving home on the wash boards, I see that the tire carrier has swung open. Luckily the auto stopping feature stopped the thing from smashing into my rear fender, but it appeared the arm bracket with all that weight had become bent in away that would allow it to close. So, lesson for people with a tire carrier, don’t carry too much weight extended out on a 60 miles of rough wash board roads. It took me 3.5 hours to do the repair because I was I’ll. I couldn’t think straight, I couldn’t problem solve, and I was getting very tired very fast. It sucked having Covid. To fix the issue, I moved the hitch basket to the fixed receiver. Moved the gear inside, and then I took 2 ratchet straps to shut the swing arm closed. I had a prototype version tire carrier, and it looked like the pin only inserted about 1/4” to hold the swing arm in place. The guy with the Cherokee had the same tire carrier, but his pin went in a full inch. Was my prototype made different? Did the extra weight cause the gap? Or was the road simply too rough and abusive? Maybe all of the above? I don’t know exactly.
Great Vid, Jon! Ryan of DrivingSportsTV mentioned the washboard in his 4Runner journey last year but didn’t show such serious examples of the damage they can do. Were you aired down? Wouldn’t that help along with hitting the right speed? It’s either 3 mph or 33, right!
Thanks! Yes, I was aired down to 20 psi. Not sure what roads Ryan took, there’s plenty of roads that aren’t abusive in Death Valley. The roads may have been serviced. The race track playa is unmaintained, and the condition of the road leading to the saline valley hot springs was in similar condition. I tried driving 45 mph, but the wash boards were too varied. It would be smooth, and then I’d run into larger washboards and it turned into VIOLENCE. I just had to drive a consistent 15 mph and accept the rattling. It sucked 😖. I have friends that have been down the race track playa. It’s the same story, ripped bushings, blown shocks or both. Honda tested their platform on the race track, and designed their vehicles to hold up to the abuse, not sure if Toyota improved their vehicles as well, but those Bilsteins on the 2017 Tacoma TRD offroad exploded, all 4 of them.
I'm curious as to why you did not chain up at the beginning? Anytime I head up to those roads in the winter I use chains. Also its best to mount chains in driveway a few times to ensure proper fitment. Glad everyone was ok.
I’ve been driving in all sorts of snowy and icy California conditions and never needed to chain up. I can’t remember the last time California issued R3 conditions.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I always chain up regardless of requirements. Heck I chained up a big rig out of Truckee going through Donners Pass. Halfway through got caught in a blizzard. I was so happy I chained up even though the conditions were dry and clear in Truckee. Lesson learned for sure. I'm very in impressed where you take that Honda though!!
2:25 Actually, all your wheels do stop. The vehicle just begins to slide. Having four wheel drive or AWD simply allows you to correct the facing of your vehicle. Like you learned, it is far more useful going up, than down.
It's possible the angle and weight of the trailer as the Gladiator was reaching your traction boards made it loose traction and not related to the boards themselves. Most traction boards perform pretty well across the board, the difference in price usually shows up in their durability and stackability, which the Maxtrax are 2nd to none.
I deflated here because I had about 25 miles of dirt, gravel and washboards before I came across this 2 miles snowy section, otherwise I just air down for deep snow.
I have my opinions about Google nav and tourists that's for sure, we've had so many people get lost up in the coastal range up here in Oregon that it's not funny because of Google giving them "shortcuts" supposedly, there's been a few deaths as well because of that. Iirc there is a setting you can select to stay off dirt roads as well in navigation.
It’s the washboards. Grader trucks usually leave them and they can be exacerbated by weather. It’s just nonstop vibration and vibration wears on components and for shocks can overheat them as well!
close... they were an inch from connecting together. Combination of tires aired down and the Falken Wildpeaks being a little larger than they should be.
I had the same experience going down icy/slushy hills with AT tires (cooper at3 4s), but I swapped to all-weather tires (Kumho Solus ha32) this time of year and it feels just as safe as winter tires (even on an FWD). The new variant is no joke! This one could spread to other organs and cause permanent damage to the brain and there were cases of dementia regardless of age, scary stuff. Get well soon and keep your family safe :)
Geez! I hope the new variant doesn't cause permanent damage! You're scaring me! haha! I'm feeling better already, I'm on day 5 now and feeling almost fully recovered.
No although proper snow tires (although not good for off roading) sure does help with stopping on snow and ice. I hate snow wheeling. I don't mind it going to s camp site but I have only had bad experiences with wheeling and snow so no thanks for me
I don't have much experience driving in snow or icy conditions so maybe the not 4 wheel stop is referring to those conditions, but my experience is that 4wd definitely helps with stopping in situations with more traction as the front and rear driveshafts are forced to turn at the same speed.
they are not forced to turn at the same speed, unless the diff is locked. Also, when you're stopping you step on the brakes, every single type of drivetrain out there is equal when stopping, it's all up to your tires and brakes at that point, any wheel drive is moot.
I don’t think you are correct. I said 4wd which implies a transfer case which is locked or a locked center differential. I was careful to say drive shafts and not axles because if your front or rear differentials are not locked the wheels on a given axle can turn at different speeds. However even without lockers 4wd will evenly distribute breaking front and rear, helping the vehicle to stop. Without 4wd you could have a tendency to lock up the front or rear wheels independently.
@@turtlealberigi I understand what a 4WD is, I'm glad you do too. But I said differential because, even if the transfer case is locked, the side to side wheels will spin at different rates, but all of this is only acceleration, including what you're talking about. When BRAKING, it doesn't matter what wheel drive, system, or locking diff or not you have, it's all up to the braking system especially the ABS and tires. So AWD, 4WD, 2WD, locking not locking, they all stop the same, doesn't matter if it forces another axle to do something, when you're on the brakes, you're on the brakes, ABS will do the anti-lock up
I still think you are wrong, saying that 4wd only matters when accelerating does not make any sense. Braking is still acceleration. I recognize that without lockers the wheels side to side can turn independently, but that is not the pint. The point is that 4wd helps the front and rear brakes work together. Not all vehicles have ABS, but I would image 4wd helps even with ABS. At the very least 4wd would reduce the work needed to be done by ABS. Again I am not an expert in driving in the snow but I think it wrong to say 4wd does not help you stop period.
@@turtlealberigi I've worked at dealerships and shops for over 10 years, went to school for automotive, and read mechanical articles for fun every day, drive a locking center diff AWD for the past 9 years in snow. You are the very first and only person I've ever heard/read to say 4WD helps in stopping. I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, cuz if your theory does work, and someone tests it to be true in real life, I'll believe it! The only argument I have to agree with you on is about engine braking, however much engine braking there is, it will apply to all wheels because they're tied together mechanically, so sure, it's better, it helps, but... end of the day it's negligible, especially in brake pedal to the floor, or super slow speed sliding on ice situations where brake power massively over powers any engine/drivetrain braking. Just so we're clear, I'm talking about emergency braking, hard braking, not just slowing down.
If you know you're going to a place where there are snow and ice, bring some chains. Mud tires suck in snow and ice and get well soon man. I got the first version of Covid and it was very hard for me but I survived
Yeah, I think this is a lesson for everyone, especially for those that pull a trailer. Chains are such an important thing to bring! This omnicron variant seems to be very mild, but I'm double vaxxed so that may be a factor.
Yeah I dont mess around with snow, I chase the warm. I have snowchainz tho just incase cus u never know. Jon you gotta hit the vtec to not slip. Hope youre doing better, fuck rona.
Part-time 4WD will slow you down faster than 2WD since the transfer case distributes the braking force to all 4 wheels and will prevent your front wheels from locking. It does make a difference: th-cam.com/video/fMHSBXjiyac/w-d-xo.html
That's cool Philip, but on this glare ice, it doesn't appear anything is stopping or making a difference unless you have chains/studs, it's just that slippery. In Ice and snow, you don't want to lock up your brakes when going downhill. You want to either utilize engine braking, or in a vehicle with less gearing, you might even want to gas it to keep the vehicle straight and controlled. In this video, I was in in 1st gear, it just didn't make a difference, it was so slippery.
Not having a badge doesn’t mean anything. I removed the AWD badges from my WRX cause I thought it looked stupid almost like an efi badge on a 90s car. Lol
what is "all wheel stop"? all wheels have brakes, so yeah, every car is all wheel stop. Also, AT3W are severe snow rated yes, severe SNOW rated. The 3PMSF test ONLY tests for lightly compacted snow in a controlled environment. Meaning wet, dry, loose, heavy packed, ICE and ANY other winter conditions are NOT tested. EVERY all-terrain tire do bad on ice, they lack the true soft winter compound, surface water evacuation, and small siping to grip ice. Bottom line is, you did NOT have the appropriate tires for ice. Chains is a good idea though, if your wheel gap allows, at least get actual chain links not cables, better with chain studs, best with V-bars. Cables tend to just roll, they're designed for on road bias. All in all, you did extremely well for what you have. Kudos.
Here's some comments that have been incredibly informative (sorted by time of entry):
*dorelse*
Yeah, glad you're safe! That wasn't Black Ice though...just regular old glare ice...its been compacted by vehicles and the sun heats it up just enough that it melts a tiny bit and refreezes into super slick, shiny (or glare) ice. We see it all the time in the Midwest and tires aren't gonna help much when you're on that kind of incline trying to brake. Only option is to either keep going, or turn around. That is some serious stuff you just did!
*salsanacho*
To make it easier to get chains on, if you're able.... one trick is to bring a block of wood and drive the wheel on top of it. It'll make it easier to get the chains under your wheel to allow you to wrap them around the tire. Also note that Falken Wildpeaks tend to run larger than KO2s or other AT tires. That might contribute to your chains not fitting.
*Brandon Czer (not a comment)*
Btw-I just learned, go 1 size up on chains if All Terrains tires and/or E rated, per the company I just bought chains from.
I missed the crashes where were they
Yeah, glad you're safe! That wasn't Black Ice though...just regular old glare ice...its been compacted by vehicles and the sun heats it up just enough that it melts a tiny bit and refreezes into super slick, shiny (or glare) ice. We see it all the time in the Midwest and tires aren't gonna help much when you're on that kind of incline trying to brake. Only option is to either keep going, or turn around. That is some serious stuff you just did!
Thanks dorelse! You're spot on! I didn't know what to call it, but you're description is 100% what I experienced and observed. I agree, I don't think there was anything that would have helped with traction besides something that could claw into the glass like ice. I actually took a shovel to it, and it wouldn't break like regular ice, it was like I was chipping into hard rock. I'm going to have to add your comment into a pin collective pinned post. Very good info, thank you!
I've encountered it, too (out in the woods in NW Mt), @dorelse's description is right on. If you can walk on it, you can just push your rig where you want it to be, it's so slippery!! I've pushed my Accords and even a 3/4t ford flatbed work truck - easy peasy. Just pushes like on a flat furniture dolly, back on the road, even u-turns! And that was even w/studded tires on the Accords, lol.
Even wilder, if the temps had dropped below freezing & humidity had gone down, that slippery glare ice could refreeze drier, and almost be kind of sticky. I couldn't make it up friend's very steep very windy driveway during the day when the snow was a bit 'wet'. Got back down, drove to show a friend the road which was glare ice..... couldn't turn around so got out & pushed the studded-tire v6 accord thru a u-turn, drove over & parked at the bottom of the driveway. After dark, the temps had dropped, the snow had 'dried out', walked down to the car & drove her right up the hill, no problemo. So temps, humidity can have a lot to do w/snow & ice! Glad you're feeling better!
Way to adventure in the new year. Great tip- will test fit our chains tomorrow!
And I need to figure out what size chains I should buy now 😫
Happy New Year!
Man...what an adventure! Hope you're feeling better Jon. Keep the adventure coming, thanks for the heads up on this trail.
Thanks Mr. Tran! Symptoms have been really mild and feeling better already. The fatigue stopped yesterday. Happy New Year!
I must say. This was the most thrilling video of your that I have watched, You are a normal guy but I must say this was crazy watching you losing traction on the snow I live in Winter land, I am happy you are safe
Hope you are feeling better! Thanks for posting the video. Ice can be scary!
Feeling better already, thanks! Happy New Year!
Good thing you know exactly what you’re doing. Stay Healthy brother 🤙🏽
Thanks Mike! Happy New Years!
Thanks for all the great content! Hope you are feeling better!
Thanks Justin! I felt better, but 11 days in I have the sniffles again.
She said:”at least it is in the left and not on the right “ haha
Dang definitely a clencher! Also very good point about awd drive doesn't mean awd stop! That got me thinking the only vehicles I know that can actively spin the wheels backward are the Acuras sport hybrids which from my knowledge allows one of the electric motors to spin reverse of the vectoring wheel to truly pivot...now let's see if Honda × GM will create some kind of "ivtm4-e"
On this kind of ice (someone commented that it's called "glare ice"), no AWD system will make a difference. Chains or maybe a super sticky snow tire will be the only thing that will help. The best way I could describe it is there is zero traction on this surface.
Glad you got out safe! What an adventure 🦅
Thanks Christian! Happy New Year Brother!
You need a studded tire! Chains suck because you have to take off and on.
80 percent of off road tires have stud holes in them. You have to install studs before mounting tires. With studded snow tires on my 95 civic, i could drive through snow up to headlights, about 14” if snow!
Studded tires aren't legal in California, and the snowy section only accounted for 2 miles out of the 700 miles on this trip :)
yep... my old 88 CRX si in New England snow was otherworldly... snow tires and studs are magic
Great episode Jon! I hope you’re recovering well, take care.
Thanks Donald! Happy New Year to you and your family!
Great info Jon!! It is super important to make sure chains fit.
Thanks Nick and Nancy! Going to order another set before I make my way out to Lake Tahoe at the end of the month.
Glad your feeling better Jon. Get more rest and this year will be the best yet. Really great video again. Also glad you both made it safely back.
Thanks DJ! I appreciate the kind words!
Happy New Year🎉
Hope you have a very mild case
Thanks Mark! Happy New Year!
Really cool spot! (I mean Hot, as in Springs) Hope you’re recovering ok so you can get back to trailing!
Thanks Aristotle! I still have the sniffles, but feel much better. I can’t wait to get back out too!
Get well soon Jondy! Almost all of us got it too. The variant is super contagious but just mild cases. Cool informative snow video!
Happy New Year Leo! Yeah, the symptoms are really mild, I’ve definitely have had the common cold with worse symptoms. I’m already feeling better.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring and HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU!! It lingers man. I’m on my 6th day and I’m still feeling slight chills. And hopefully I get my result from my Covid test today, but I’m sure it’s Covid 😂
Situations like this are why I love 4Lo, whenever it’s sketchy down hill, I just put it in 1st and 4Lo
I was in my pseudo 4Lo, my first gear is 20.4:1. I've been down snowy hills almost 3 times as steep, and 1st gear did a good job to straighten the vehicle out. This stuff, it was so incredibly slippery, and 1st gear didn't seem to make a difference.
Dang, you were going so slow already and it still slid out! That's slick conditions for sure.
Yeah, I had to go 1 mph to not slide!
Happy New Yr John it’s been a minute so I gotta catch up on your vids. Like always awesome adventure!
Happy New Years Hondo!
I find it's a good idea to try the chains on in the driveway before I head to the snow.
Yup, I just experienced this myself just this past week around Shasta and Lassen. Normally I never travel in the mountains without my Bridgestone Blizzaks but I thought since I recently purchased AT tires that are severe snow rated that I would be OK. Well lesson learned and I will never do that again because all terrain tires whether they are severe Snow rated or not just don't have the ability to cling to ice like true winter tires
Someone was even mentioning winter tires would slip here and real chains (not cables) would be the only option (or studded tires).
@@JonDZ_Adventuring well if that is true then I would not be able to drive the streets of Portland in what they call ice rain. Or up Mt. Hood on solid sheets of ice. Last year I was traveling down Mt. Rainer and the person in front of me had chain on and he did a 180. Also last year my wife and I traveled to Glacier Wyoming in the winter and also camped near Yellowstone Montana. We did a bit of winter camping in both areas on snowy icy dirt roads with creek crossing which again were solid ice driving out the creeks and we never had issues. I have been using Bridgestone Blizzaks since 1997 with only awesome results. Only downside with those tires is they are so soft they can wear out quickly on pavement when temps get warm. I live in California now which is the reason I didn't throw on my Blizzaks for this last trip but like I already said I won't do that again. I wish I could give advice on other dedicated winter tires but I have never tried out anything else but I have debated on trying out the Michelin X-ice or General tires. When I visit my friends in Bend, OR it seems that nearly everybody there is using studs but again I am not slipping . I can only assume if someone is saying that dedicated none studded winter tires would not work then they didn't have Blizzaks. Studs definitely have their place though but I am now traveling 6-8 hrs to even get to the snow. Love your channel and I hope to catch up with you guys one day.
@@andreasm2882 scan the comment sections. People are saying that they can move and rotate their cars around by hand even with studded tires. Glare ice is what they’re calling it.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yes, I have read through the comments sections and I totally get what glare ice is lol. Now try driving in freezing rain, this is rain that freezes on contact and this is the worst type of ice anyone should attempt to drive on, it's even worse than glare ice and black ice. I have done this with Blizzaks. You can chose to either believe me or not.
Also, you are so right. I've rescued or redirected people 'just following google' on tiny mountain roads completely unsuitable for their cars.
It's happened to me before. I learned to use GAIA GPS and self navigate in rural areas :)
Yikes. That whole video gave me anxiety. That feeling when you start sliding is so uncomfortable and you have almost zero time to think. It was very smart of you to slow down as much as you did.
Slip and slide mountain pass! That was pretty tricky I could tell you had to concentrate a lot. Glad you guys made it down and up with no issues. That long sled ride was intense!!
The plan was to “relax” at the Hot Springs, but oh boy! That was the exact opposite 🤣. I’m
Happy to be alive at the start of 2022, happy New Years Zack!
Scary bro I be afraid going off the road can’t drive on ice I slide my element too same tires as yours but does good in the snow but glad u and the family was all safe and good 👍 happy new year bro
Happy New Years! Thanks for the best wishes
To make it easier to get chains on, if you're able.... one trick is to bring a block of wood and drive the wheel on top of it. It'll make it easier to get the chains under your wheel to allow you to wrap them around the tire.
Also note that Falken Wildpeaks tend to run larger than KO2s or other AT tires. That might contribute to your chains not fitting.
AWESOME ADVICE!!! I may have even been able to use a rock. I was 1 inch from getting the chains on, I was also aired down to 20 psi, which made it hard to get around the larger foot print. I’m going to have to make a pin post and mention what you said. Lots of good info from these comments! Thanks! Have a happy new Year
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yeah airing down exacerbates the problem if you have tight chains. I just plop the block of wood into the bag with the chains so it's always there. Can also use something similar in size like a regular sized brick.
@@salsanacho a friend of mine said he spoke to a tire chain company and they said to "go 1 size up on chain if All terrain tires and/or E rated". I have 255/70R18 tires, so I'll be buying chains for 255/75R18.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks, makes sense! I wish you could buy tire chains based on the actual tire dimensions instead of the tire size ratings, which can vary between manufacturers.
Happy 2022, Jon!
Happy New Year Adam!
Just found you chanel and started watching last night!
Wondering how I am able to calculate my crawl ratio when the information for the transfer case and diff are not readily online. I have a 2012 highlander (non hybrid)
I love how you always include crawl ratios
14.8:1
Search for “gear ratio”, and you should find your info.
Car and Driver is a good resource. www.caranddriver.com/toyota/highlander/specs/2012/toyota_highlander_toyota-highlander_2012
Pretty sure I saw you yesterday on the 395 between Trona Road and Adelanto. I was heading to Pinnacles for the night.
that was me :P
Looks fun might hit it up solo
the trail really doesn't have any fun challenges if there's no snow. I bet the North trail will have some snow for quite some time.
really like the way you do your videos man
Ty Ty!
That beginning was crazy, do you think a hill descent control would help in a situation like that?
It would not, lower gearing will help more, but even that wasn't making a difference. What worked was entering slow, 1-2 mph. I will be ordering new snow chains after this incident.
It blows me away how many otherwise well informed people don’t understand that dedicated winter tires absolutely blow 3peak rated all-terrains out of the water in icey conditions. It is Not. Even. Close. I run Pirelli scorpion AT+’s in the summer and love them, but once winter hits my Michelin X-ice snow SUV’s make them look like racing slicks
You know you're in trouble when you toss the box of chains on the ground and the box starts sliding
Hey Jon,
If you haven't bought replacement chains yet have you considered a tire sock?
I think they're a little more than chains but serve the same purpose with lots of advantages:
Noise, packability, and ease of install and they seem to test well in reviews I've seen.
Plus they're lower profile versus traditional chains or even Z chains and I'm not sure how much fender room you have with those big meaty wheels. (:
Would compliment your set up well with ATs. Only need them like in situations shown here.
EDIT:
After I made this comment my first video suggested is a TFL video about said sock. The Matrix has me ):
A lot of people recommended I get true tire chains. I went and bought a pair that I plan on putting on my rear tires. Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll consider buying a set for my front tires. I’ll be heading to Lake Tahoe at the end of this month, and I hear they have alot of snow (and ice).
I watched the TFL video. Pretty interesting result, I’d like to see how those tire socks stop on glassy ice. This ice was on another level.
Had a similar situation over the weekend in Mendocino NF. Whole line of 15+ F150s fx4s stuck trying to drag their SxS trailers uphill on ice ..took over 2 hrs to get them out. By the time I got there the entire road was rutted, frozen over mud. We got up without so much as a pause in the Forester wilderness. 4x4 owners tend to overestimate their capabilities in snow/ice...in reality, locking diffs are actively detrimental in those conditions...you *want* AWD, not part time 4wd.
The memory of watching the Jeep with the trailer slide backwards 10 feet is still fresh in my head. Trailers and ice seem to be a bad combination huh?
@@JonDZ_Adventuring especially unbraked trailers. being in a beefy 4x4 lifted truck seems to give people a dangerous level of overconfidence.
8:48 thought this was gonna go towards a maxtrax bashing/“I’m not gonna pay $300 for traction boards” direction.
No Maxtrax bashing. Although I have never purchased a set, I've always respected the design. On this trip they really proved their worth.
nothing beats actual snow-tires. On the east we get snow tires with STUDS... dunno why snows work better than AT but AT don't come close to snow-tires. Keep a set to swap in if you plan on doing this often... then swap out when you're done with the snow
Actual winter tires have softer compound that stay softer colder and more small jagged siping to grip ice, and a lot of winter tires have little holes to remove surface water so it reduces slipping.
What happened to yielding to the uphill traveling vehicle?
Are you talking about 19:18? He came around the corner and didn't have a place to pull over.
Hey, liked the video. I had a similar situation on a shelf road here in Washington last winter when it started snowing while we were on the Stampede Pass to Greenwater trail. At the time, I was on Falken Wildpeaks also. Just wondering if you aired down while you were sliding around? I think that would have helped me in my situation. Anyways, I have since changed to Kenda Klever RTs which have been great this last snowstorm we had here in Seattle. Well, keep up the good vids. Planning a road trip in May down through Cali and back up through Anzo Borrego, Joshua Tree, and Sequoia National Forest. Maybe run into you on the trails. Lol.
Yes, I was aired down. Works great for deep snow! But the ice was super slippery. I took my shovel and tried to whack it. I was very very hard. I don’t think anything would help there besides chains or traction boards (like the Maxtrax, not the cheap ones I had 🤣). You need to hit me up when you visit, let’s go on a trip!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yeah, that looked super slippery. LOL. For sure, I will hit you up when it gets closer to May and see what you got planned. Glad to see your channel growing and I wish you all the success!!
What came loose on the trailer hitch/tire carrier that it took you three hours to fix? 🤔
It was a domino effect of things. I had too much weight resting on the cargo basket, which was extended out on the swing out hitch receiver. While driving home on the wash boards, I see that the tire carrier has swung open. Luckily the auto stopping feature stopped the thing from smashing into my rear fender, but it appeared the arm bracket with all that weight had become bent in away that would allow it to close. So, lesson for people with a tire carrier, don’t carry too much weight extended out on a 60 miles of rough wash board roads. It took me 3.5 hours to do the repair because I was I’ll. I couldn’t think straight, I couldn’t problem solve, and I was getting very tired very fast. It sucked having Covid. To fix the issue, I moved the hitch basket to the fixed receiver. Moved the gear inside, and then I took 2 ratchet straps to shut the swing arm closed. I had a prototype version tire carrier, and it looked like the pin only inserted about 1/4” to hold the swing arm in place. The guy with the Cherokee had the same tire carrier, but his pin went in a full inch. Was my prototype made different? Did the extra weight cause the gap? Or was the road simply too rough and abusive? Maybe all of the above? I don’t know exactly.
Great Vid, Jon! Ryan of DrivingSportsTV mentioned the washboard in his 4Runner journey last year but didn’t show such serious examples of the damage they can do. Were you aired down? Wouldn’t that help along with hitting the right speed? It’s either 3 mph or 33, right!
Thanks! Yes, I was aired down to 20 psi. Not sure what roads Ryan took, there’s plenty of roads that aren’t abusive in Death Valley. The roads may have been serviced. The race track playa is unmaintained, and the condition of the road leading to the saline valley hot springs was in similar condition. I tried driving 45 mph, but the wash boards were too varied. It would be smooth, and then I’d run into larger washboards and it turned into VIOLENCE. I just had to drive a consistent 15 mph and accept the rattling. It sucked 😖. I have friends that have been down the race track playa. It’s the same story, ripped bushings, blown shocks or both. Honda tested their platform on the race track, and designed their vehicles to hold up to the abuse, not sure if Toyota improved their vehicles as well, but those Bilsteins on the 2017 Tacoma TRD offroad exploded, all 4 of them.
Yallllll crazy!! lol shelf roads are soul sucking already, yall did that on icy snow… I think I urinated myself 3times in fear for you guys…. Lol
Haha! Thanks for the sacrifice :P
@@JonDZ_Adventuring lol 🤣😂
I'm curious as to why you did not chain up at the beginning? Anytime I head up to those roads in the winter I use chains. Also its best to mount chains in driveway a few times to ensure proper fitment. Glad everyone was ok.
I’ve been driving in all sorts of snowy and icy California conditions and never needed to chain up. I can’t remember the last time California issued R3 conditions.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I always chain up regardless of requirements. Heck I chained up a big rig out of Truckee going through Donners Pass. Halfway through got caught in a blizzard. I was so happy I chained up even though the conditions were dry and clear in Truckee. Lesson learned for sure. I'm very in impressed where you take that Honda though!!
I know those tires have the snowflake symbol, but they just don't look like a good winter tire.
They’ve been decent in the snow, and from first hand accounts, are better than most A/T tires on ice, but I found the limit 😖
2:25 Actually, all your wheels do stop. The vehicle just begins to slide. Having four wheel drive or AWD simply allows you to correct the facing of your vehicle. Like you learned, it is far more useful going up, than down.
I actually didn't lock up my brakes, so they tires weren't stopped. I was also in 1st gear, I didn't mention that in the video.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Curious. Do you think hill decent control would help in these types of situations, on snow and ice?
Did you consider airing down?
I was aired down
Loving the videos
Here is a new saying: “Snow rated don’t mean ice rated.”
FO REALZ! haha
Very informative video Jon, for the "cooties" try some anti-viral drugs, ask you doctor about them. Stay safe!
Thanks! My 10 days of isolation ends today 😃. I feel fairly good. Just an intermittent dry cough.
It's possible the angle and weight of the trailer as the Gladiator was reaching your traction boards made it loose traction and not related to the boards themselves. Most traction boards perform pretty well across the board, the difference in price usually shows up in their durability and stackability, which the Maxtrax are 2nd to none.
The moment the Gladiator made contact with my cheaper traction boards, the boards lost their footing and the Gladiator sled back.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Oh gotcha.
That ice is no joke man… having recovery boards is a very good idea!! Hope you’re feeling better and get a cootie shot soon
I had 2 cootie shots already!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring same same… 😞 I think they forgot my circle circle dot dot… I have some chains I’ve also never used but test fitted
Do you deflate your tires in the snow and ice?
I deflated here because I had about 25 miles of dirt, gravel and washboards before I came across this 2 miles snowy section, otherwise I just air down for deep snow.
I have my opinions about Google nav and tourists that's for sure, we've had so many people get lost up in the coastal range up here in Oregon that it's not funny because of Google giving them "shortcuts" supposedly, there's been a few deaths as well because of that. Iirc there is a setting you can select to stay off dirt roads as well in navigation.
Yep most of the wrecks on a highway after it snows or is icy are 4wds
Why exactly does that particular road add such egregious wear and tear on rigs? That's wild and good to know.
It’s the washboards. Grader trucks usually leave them and they can be exacerbated by weather. It’s just nonstop vibration and vibration wears on components and for shocks can overheat them as well!
@@GrizzlyPath Ah Thanks for the info!
@@GrizzlyPath couldn't have said it better myself! Yes, the vibrations overheat the shocks, and heat cause the shocks to fail or... explode :P
Didn't you guys just go to DV in November?
We did Trona pinnacles to Golerwash, Mengel Pass, Titus canyon, Eureka dunes, but I didn't get a chance to visit the Saline hot springs.
Try deflating tires a bit next time traction becomes a issue , make sure you have a air pump tho
They were already at 20 psi
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Hi Jon, thanks for showing the challenges as always, I wonder if going even lower to 15 psi would've helped alittle bit more.
@1:40 Let me guess. You forgot to bring your snow chains.
close... they were an inch from connecting together. Combination of tires aired down and the Falken Wildpeaks being a little larger than they should be.
I had the same experience going down icy/slushy hills with AT tires (cooper at3 4s), but I swapped to all-weather tires (Kumho Solus ha32) this time of year and it feels just as safe as winter tires (even on an FWD). The new variant is no joke! This one could spread to other organs and cause permanent damage to the brain and there were cases of dementia regardless of age, scary stuff. Get well soon and keep your family safe :)
Geez! I hope the new variant doesn't cause permanent damage! You're scaring me! haha! I'm feeling better already, I'm on day 5 now and feeling almost fully recovered.
No although proper snow tires (although not good for off roading) sure does help with stopping on snow and ice. I hate snow wheeling. I don't mind it going to s camp site but I have only had bad experiences with wheeling and snow so no thanks for me
Man, I'm not even sure if dedicated snow tires would stop on this stuff. I had 0.00% traction.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring snow tires are night and day versus AT... used to love in snowville and they're amazing... stud them for even more magic
I don't have much experience driving in snow or icy conditions so maybe the not 4 wheel stop is referring to those conditions, but my experience is that 4wd definitely helps with stopping in situations with more traction as the front and rear driveshafts are forced to turn at the same speed.
they are not forced to turn at the same speed, unless the diff is locked. Also, when you're stopping you step on the brakes, every single type of drivetrain out there is equal when stopping, it's all up to your tires and brakes at that point, any wheel drive is moot.
I don’t think you are correct. I said 4wd which implies a transfer case which is locked or a locked center differential. I was careful to say drive shafts and not axles because if your front or rear differentials are not locked the wheels on a given axle can turn at different speeds. However even without lockers 4wd will evenly distribute breaking front and rear, helping the vehicle to stop. Without 4wd you could have a tendency to lock up the front or rear wheels independently.
@@turtlealberigi I understand what a 4WD is, I'm glad you do too. But I said differential because, even if the transfer case is locked, the side to side wheels will spin at different rates, but all of this is only acceleration, including what you're talking about. When BRAKING, it doesn't matter what wheel drive, system, or locking diff or not you have, it's all up to the braking system especially the ABS and tires. So AWD, 4WD, 2WD, locking not locking, they all stop the same, doesn't matter if it forces another axle to do something, when you're on the brakes, you're on the brakes, ABS will do the anti-lock up
I still think you are wrong, saying that 4wd only matters when accelerating does not make any sense. Braking is still acceleration. I recognize that without lockers the wheels side to side can turn independently, but that is not the pint. The point is that 4wd helps the front and rear brakes work together. Not all vehicles have ABS, but I would image 4wd helps even with ABS. At the very least 4wd would reduce the work needed to be done by ABS. Again I am not an expert in driving in the snow but I think it wrong to say 4wd does not help you stop period.
@@turtlealberigi I've worked at dealerships and shops for over 10 years, went to school for automotive, and read mechanical articles for fun every day, drive a locking center diff AWD for the past 9 years in snow. You are the very first and only person I've ever heard/read to say 4WD helps in stopping. I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, cuz if your theory does work, and someone tests it to be true in real life, I'll believe it! The only argument I have to agree with you on is about engine braking, however much engine braking there is, it will apply to all wheels because they're tied together mechanically, so sure, it's better, it helps, but... end of the day it's negligible, especially in brake pedal to the floor, or super slow speed sliding on ice situations where brake power massively over powers any engine/drivetrain braking. Just so we're clear, I'm talking about emergency braking, hard braking, not just slowing down.
If you know you're going to a place where there are snow and ice, bring some chains. Mud tires suck in snow and ice and get well soon man. I got the first version of Covid and it was very hard for me but I survived
Yeah, I think this is a lesson for everyone, especially for those that pull a trailer. Chains are such an important thing to bring! This omnicron variant seems to be very mild, but I'm double vaxxed so that may be a factor.
69 views? Nice!
Yeah I dont mess around with snow, I chase the warm. I have snowchainz tho just incase cus u never know. Jon you gotta hit the vtec to not slip. Hope youre doing better, fuck rona.
Ha! I'm already feeling better!
Only winter tires could've helped there.Anything else is just Mickey mouse.
Part-time 4WD will slow you down faster than 2WD since the transfer case distributes the braking force to all 4 wheels and will prevent your front wheels from locking. It does make a difference: th-cam.com/video/fMHSBXjiyac/w-d-xo.html
That's cool Philip, but on this glare ice, it doesn't appear anything is stopping or making a difference unless you have chains/studs, it's just that slippery.
In Ice and snow, you don't want to lock up your brakes when going downhill. You want to either utilize engine braking, or in a vehicle with less gearing, you might even want to gas it to keep the vehicle straight and controlled. In this video, I was in in 1st gear, it just didn't make a difference, it was so slippery.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Chains are totally the way to go as you said in your video. I would probably replace your cables with some diamond style chains.
@@sauce729 I’ll be buying some real chains, thanks!
Not having a badge doesn’t mean anything. I removed the AWD badges from my WRX cause I thought it looked stupid almost like an efi badge on a 90s car. Lol
You have a point, but the Telluride was still on temporary plates, looked totally stock, and it being FWD explains why it couldn't make it out.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring for sure. Most likely was fwd. just like to point out that it’s popular to remove emblems. Hope you’re feeling better man!
@@KTMcaptain Thank you! Yes, I am feeling much better now.
LOL, city driver get a AWD car he can't drive! JK....
what is "all wheel stop"? all wheels have brakes, so yeah, every car is all wheel stop. Also, AT3W are severe snow rated yes, severe SNOW rated. The 3PMSF test ONLY tests for lightly compacted snow in a controlled environment. Meaning wet, dry, loose, heavy packed, ICE and ANY other winter conditions are NOT tested. EVERY all-terrain tire do bad on ice, they lack the true soft winter compound, surface water evacuation, and small siping to grip ice. Bottom line is, you did NOT have the appropriate tires for ice. Chains is a good idea though, if your wheel gap allows, at least get actual chain links not cables, better with chain studs, best with V-bars. Cables tend to just roll, they're designed for on road bias. All in all, you did extremely well for what you have. Kudos.