Shooting Colts 1862 Police Revolver.mov
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video we examine Colt's 1862 Police revolvers. The 5-shot .36 caliber cap and ball revolver evolved out of the Colt 1849 Pocket model in .31 caliber, similar to the development of the 1860 Army revolver from the 1851 Navy. We'll shoot the 1862 police and discuss loading and capping issues.
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My Uberti 1862 Pocket Navy shot so high at 25 yards I made a wooden (yes wooden ) ramp foresight about a quarter of an inch high, butted it up to the brass bead and used epoxy adhesive to glue it to the top flat. Painted it matt black and now its dead on with a six o clock hold on the black! It still eats cap fragments but that's the nature of the beast. Despite the politicians we can still shoot black powder pistols here in the UK. Great videos Mike. Look after your 2nd Amendment!!!
My 1851 lost its brass bead maybe 15 years ago, so I cut and filed a bit of aluminum wire to the perfect height and epoxied it in the brass bead's hole, its been sighted in at the perfect elevation ever since. Now the front sight has a silver look instead of brass. It was an easy job, yet I've never heard of anyone elsa doing it.
FYI for everyone. There is another fix for the problem of "cap sucking" other than the one described in the video. That is to drill a small hole in the frame and press fit a hardened pin that sits vertically and resides in the hammer notch when down. This pin will scrape the slot clear of caps and still allow the use of the safety pin as well as allow Colt's design to direct gas pressure downward continue to function as designed.
This particular approach does require very good, tight, measurements, and possibly a slight deepening of the hammer notch to accommodate the pin, but it works, and works well.
Of course, the JB weld approach also works, but if you want all 5 chambers instead of 4, it's the approach to take.
thank you for always going through the loading sequence. Nice for new shooters to get educated and learn a good way to load.
What I did for the cap sucking problem and still use the safety pins was to fill the hammer slot with JB Weld, let it set up, file it flat and then press the hammer face down on a safety pin several times to leave a mark on the hammer face and then using a small drill bit drill a small hole a little larger than the safety pin about 1/16" deep in the JB Weld. This works for me and I can still use the safety pins. When they make those hammers they make those safety pin slots so big so that it's easy for anyone to use. Works for me!!
The fix with JB Weld works just fine! Did it on my 1860 too! Thanks Mike
Older video but if someone or Mr. Mike reads this. There is a modification that is done by Longhunter or other C&B gunsmiths that prevents the caps from falling back in. It is also historically accurate. I believe it's called the "Manhattan Conversion".
I bought and 1862 police pocket by uberti after watching Mike's old videos on them ( May 2023) with the usual stuff you have to do to get them to be reliable this turned out to be an excellent pistol. I was so happy with it I picked up a 1862 Pocket Navy. (Feb 2024) Unfortunately this one is a nightmare with way more prolems than the police pocket. Lose arbor short hand burr on frame that locked the cylinder over tighten nipples and more. Fortunately I got it on sale.
I'm thinking that back in the day the gun owners had their own "fix" for the cap hangups,there is no way when your life depended on it you didn't fix a constant problem. And a backup pistol had to be mandatory or a sharp knife. Thanks for the video and not editing out a problem that I never knew existed,you expanded my limited of knowledge about ball and cap revolvers.
I love these little 1862s.
As with ALL Uberti's I have owned. They have the same problem. Hardened burr's and sharp edges on everything after their machining process. My solution to the "hammer grabbing the spent cap" was to deburr the hammer (along with everything else on the pistol). Especially the safety slot, on the hammer face, where the hammer face strikes the cap. With a diamond file (hammer is color case hardened) and stone, put a 1/32" (or smaller) chamfer (or radius) on the 3 edges of the hammer face slot, then polish. This will eliminate the burrs from acting like teeth to grab the spent cap. If this does not work for you, there is always the "Fill the slot with JB weld" solution. Oh, Thanks for another good vid
or cut a slot in the base of the nipple to allow the pressure to cut the cap more effecient, blackie thomas explanies that in detail on his channel....
Mike,
The way I understand the historical way of firing these cap and ball revolvers was to cock and aim the pistol at the same time then pull the trigger, then bend the elbow to pull the pistol up and cock it when the pistol becomes vertical in the air in order for gravity to pull the cap off properly. This does not always work, however back when these weapons seen standard use this was a step towards safety for yourself and your mount as well as concentration to slow yourself down and focus your nerve on the target that might be having the same issues with their cap and ball pistol.
Thanks & keep up the great work!
Respectfully Yours :
Shawn W. Bell
What a great channel to stumble across. Thank you for all of the information!!!
I think the original caps had more copper content and were thinner so they mostly self destructed on ignition so the smaller, softer fragments were less likely to tie up the gun. Todays brass caps are much harder than the old copper caps.
John Davis jax fl
Definitely. Some almost described them as foil.
I have both the Pocket Navy and the Police. Both Authentic Colt Blackpowder Series. The Police out performs the Pocket Navy both in power and accuracy. I discover that the Police rammer travels farther into the chamber. Thereby compressing the powder more. I m going out to do some more testing. 27g of Pyrodex could be compressed behind a round ball. 21g for the elongated. Goex doesn t compress as much. I m eager to see the difference.
That hat was made by D Bar J in Las Vegas. It is modeled after the Evert Hitch hat in the movie "Appaloosa"
@norwegianwiking That is a good question, because I haven't. I've been thinking along the same lines. Though, I have to say that some replicas seem to have no problem and others are awful cap pullers. I've been wondering if the modern machining of the slot is leaving the edges too sharp, or perhaps under-cut? I have pretty easy access to an original 1851 Navy, so I'll check it out in a couple of weeks.
You want the shaved ring of lead when you load the round balls. This aids in forming a gas seal and to help prevent chain fire. The balls will be shaved somewhat anyway when they enter the forcing cone of the barrel.
Hi from the UK, I have an Uberti Remington NMA but this is definitely next on my list.
Thanks for the J.B.Weld tip. I been drilling the frame for a RCBS d-capping pin to stop the spent cap from falling in the action. You fix is much easier.
Drill a small hole right where the safety pin split is in the hammer is and put a small roll pin in it. it stops the cap from falling in the action and doesn't interfere with the hammer once you fit the roll pin in the frame at the right height
@ChurchillCigar It could be a nipple issue, but I'm not going to invest in Ampco or stainless nipples on a test gun, or it could be that the safety slot is too sharp. I'll check that out.
Thanks for the info i'm going to jb weld mine today. I always enjoy your vids thanks for taking us along.
Just got my first copy (Spring 2015 issue) of "Guns of The Old West" magazine, and I saw an article in there on the "Dance & Brothers Dragoon" revolver. I have to confess, I was a little disappointed that you didn't write the article. Between the "Spiller & Burr", the "Griswold & Gunnison", and now the "Dance & Brothers Dragoon" revolver, I've learned more about Confederate side arms from you (and "Guns of The Old West" Magazine) than ANY of the Civil War Associations I was ever a part of. Do you have a "Dance & Brothers" revolver? If so, I haven't seen you do a demonstration on youtube with it. Is there a reason for that?
Mike i'm hooked on your video's, they are very good, thanks pal.
I did two things to make my 1862 police shoot without the cap problem . I pinch the cap front very slightly to make them fit the nipple better and after firing I raise the gun to a ninety degree angle before cocking. That way a broken or loose cap tends to drop clear of the revolver. I read many years ago that this was proper procedure for this firearm . I do like the safety pins.
Yet another great video,
Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks Mike for another informative video
@BRR The 1860 Army, 1861 Navy and 1862 Police all you the streamlined "creeping" loading lever, as it was called. It is indeed a rack and pinion operated rammer.
i like your gun reviews lots of information
I bought the same revolver back in the 1990s and had exactly the same problem. I spent more time taking the gun apart and digging out exploded caps than I did shooting it. I still the gun but haven't shot it for 20 years. A friend of mine recently advised me that the nipples on Uberti revolvers are missized and this contributes to the problem. He said that there are after market replacement nipples which will help the situation. Haven't tried this yet myself.
I have a feeling that some of the old guns never lose a cap because they were dry fired and it eventually bungs up the end of the nipple a little like a mushroom, so they become harder to prime-but the caps stay on, which would explain some of the comments
Mike I use #11 caps with this revolver and don't have that problem.
I use n10 remington caps, all good for me!
Always..And I mean ALWAYS! bring a knife to a gunfight.
That s right! I always carry a little tool pouch with a small cleaning staff, patches, cone wrench, cone pick, key (wedge) driver , .
Right you are! I have been collecting and firing these old guns since the eighties. When I m out and carrying for the purpose of self defence, I carry at least two. Getting into a close in situation, I have one in each hand so that at least one will fire.
@ChurchillCigar Pretty much. I think I've done all of them except the 1849 pocket model...just don't shoot that one much.
In "Civil War revolvers: myth vs. reality", the result of a test firing with an original Colt Police is given. Quite good.
Were caps made differently back in the day? You'd think that if cap jams were that common back when these pistols were in common use, they'd have found a fix for it pretty quickly.
@grant1863 Harris publications is developing a website for GOW. At the moment we are kind of the odd man out on Harris' Tactical-life site. Barnes & Noble stores generally have GOW on the shelf.
Nice video & great channel!
WOW ! very nice black powder revolver !
Try pressing the caps on after capping, reduces also, Lightly.
Those are fun little guns to shoot.
I only have one shotgun video, and one on a flintlock fowling piece. I like your videos, and subscribed to your channel.
Curiously, the 'Patent Creeping Lever' models, designed by Colt A L L came out before June of 1860. The 'Pocket Navy', said by many to not have come out until 1865! (notable authors stating this, recently!), is advertised by Colt in 1863 (after Colts death), but not before this date, as,- 'New Model Pocket of Navy Size Calibre'. Not as a 'Navy' model. The Colt Company embraced .36 as 'Navy' (not 'Naval' either, Calibre). So, this Pocket model was the l a s t design by the Colt Company. Whereas Colt himself designed the Creeping model ('Police').
I know all about the cap problems thats why you should always try to keep an eye on the caps as they cycle around
Great video Mike. I have to say that these open top Colts were beautiful looking pistols, very sleek for the time. Those caps jamming the action can be a real pain in the neck. Mike I remember reading that these 60's model Colts had some kind of improved loading lever, some kind of ratchet built in to it. Can you comment on that.
Thank you for the video Mike. I’ve been looking forward to hearing your views on this one. #8-)
Are Remingtons less likely to jam?
Possibly dumb question. What were Colt doing designing a new model police pistol in 1862, I would have thought that in 1862 they were working at full capacity on their current models being that there was a war going on?
Chiappa, Pedersoli, Pietta, Uberti... How many Italian names in the replicas of the american historical weapons of the Far-West. I think Western American weapons are too expensive for Americans today. The little factory Uberti was absorbed by more big Beretta Firearms but before about eighty percent of Uberti production ended up in the United States. It seems that the success of these weapons in Italy began after the success of the western films made in Italy (also called "Spaghetti Western"). This mini version of the Colt Navy 1851-60 is very curious. I see her well tucked into a boot like "last chance second gun". Have a nice day - Buongiorno!
Mike I wonder if anyone has tried using a very slim needle file to file off the sharp
edges of the cavity in the hammer face. Perhaps this would give the hammer a less
aggressive bight on the expended caps.
Yup. th-cam.com/video/v4gkJaIQPZo/w-d-xo.html
What do you think about cap posts (a post countersunk so that it sticks up and protrudes into the notch on the hammer that’s pulling the caps off here)? They’re supposed to prevent 100% of spent caps from falling into the mechanism. I understand some gunsmiths install them, then re-time the hammer strike to hit only the cap, not the nipple, if the gun is dry-fired. Seems a lot more complicated than epoxying the notch flush with the hammer face, but is it more effective?
It is very effective. These days I stop cap sucking by demurring and de-fanning the hammer face and safety slot with stones and files.
Thanks Mike. I knew that hat looked familiar.
Mike...I think Iam going to try your cap sucking idea on mine.
Getting tired of taking this gun apart to extract cap fragments I had a cap rake installed and that solved the problem and is a joy to shoot.
What is a cap rake?
@malevolentburrito they only did that on the cartridge guns for the reason there was no saftly slots and they could load the guns fairly quick
Hi Mike, really enjoy and find your videos informative! Is there a fix for the issue of the sticking caps without limiting the capacity?
yes.
Does the pocket navy have the same problem?
Wild Bill shot a man through the heart, across the courtyard with a 62. Even today they would make a nice self defense wep.
Correct me if i m wrong, but i m pretty sure that it was a 51 navy that i used.
Do you think you might do a video someday of the 1858 Remington in 36 cal. ? I would love to learn more about it and its history. I like mine even more than the 44, yes I have both.
I'm fixing to order one of these next week from midway with the 5.5 inch barrel and I've heard that because of their smaller size they do tend to swallow caps more. However if rotate the Colts to a 45 degree right angle after the first shot when you cock it it's easier to keep an eye on the hammer and flick off the cap fragments so they don't get swallowed. It slows your shooting a little but not as much as when a cap gets swallowed. Also with colts I prefer number 11 Remington caps and I like Cabela's brand wads and with a .36 colt I find a 15 grain charge of powder is better because it's cleaner and the caps don't get swallowed as much and the cylinder rotates better. I've owned 2 uberti 1851 navy .36s and 2 uberti 1860 .44s and never swallowed caps and I've fired thousands of shots out of them
My uberty reproduction for some reason the Caps failed to ignite almost Half the time. What can help that?
A beautiful weapon. Is this the same revolver that Wild Bill carried? I understand that it was a .36 caliber. I enjoy your videos, entertaining and informative. Thank you.
looks like a closed casket funeral for Roy.
Don't the other cap and ball Colts have that safety pin too? In fact I'd really like to see different type of old safety features in detail in some video.
Well you talked about it after I asked. :D
They do but if you use them it is still easy for the cylinder to slip off the pin and on to a live cap.
I'm curious has anyone tried to take an emery board to "round out the sharp edges on the hammer slot? I wonder if you rounded the slot out, if it would no longer 'pinch' the cap impression and pull it off? I figure, if it doesn't work, then you could always fill it up with JB like your mod. love the reviews. Thanks.
@ChurchillCigar Oh man...I don't want to touch that one...LOL
1851s do have a safety "slot"...
Mike, what is your recommendation, i would like an early pistol that shoots black powder cartridges, so you still get the smoke effect.
An 1872 Open Top from Cimarron would be a good choice.
I wonder is there some way of modifying the cylinder so that the safety system is similar to the Remington safety system or would that be to much trouble
It's been my habit to squeeze the cap, then press it tight on the nipple. Occasionally I might get a cap jamb, but not often.
It can help but some people hate the "Squeeze" method. Just a little to make it slightly oval so even larger sized caps will fit. I also placed a little wax around the outside of the cones for better seating.
Hi Mike. Would it be possible to post a video on how to fix the issue of sticking the fired caps in the action? Thanks
Gorgeous little weapon! Thanks for the review and introduction to this .36 Colt variant. Would a set of Slix Shot nipples cure/help the "cap sucking" without filling in the safety slot? I can see one of these being my daughter's "first pistol".
It is a good pistol. Quality of my T&E gun was fine.
There s a lot of talk about using other than the stock cones (nipples). I have a lot of these old Colts and fire them. Have been for a long time. The Pocket models are constantly criticized for cap sucking/jamming. With the proper fitting caps, there is virtually n o cap jam problems.
so, after a day of patrolling with a loaded gun. How long would they go before firing the shots to clean out the gun. Or should I ask, how long could you go if it was kept dry?
really enjoy all your videos. Is Guns of the Old West magazine on the 'net because I couldn't find it and its hard to find at the book store.
Hey Mike, I have seen some black powder shooters who point their revolver in the air when they
cock them. They claim that gravity helps the expended cap fall off and out of the works.
That is true. In fact the Army manual on the 1860 says to do that. But I can't see anyone doing that in a real gunfight.
@@duelist1954 Thanks Mike. I can always count on you for a reply. No matter how big you get. I mean that in terms of TH-cam fame not mass or volume. And YES I do resemble that remark as I am , by mass and volume, your biggest fan. Haha
@@Bill23799 LOL!!!
with my pietta 51 navy, i hardly ever get a cap jam and that gun is stock. maybe once in every 5 firing sessions does it jam because of a cap. other than that it shoots great. my asm on the other hand i cant recall.
Guns of the Old West is the best firearm magazine out there,I learn something I did not know with every new issue I buy.
Hi Mike
I picked up a new in the box Uberti 1862 Pocket Police 6" today. No nipple wrench came with it. Where is the quickest place to get a wrench?
Thanks and keep up the videor. You are doing a great job.
Were you using 15 grain charges for the 1862 revolver?
Hi Mike,
Would you describe the 1862 Police as a good weapon? Is there any other flaws than cap sucking? Is it a good quality gun and well made? Does it have right timing? Just asking because I'd like get one some day.
All the best,
MW
Thats why I would prefer the Remington
$5.49 for a 100 pack of Hornady .375 roundballs, wow!
@duelist1954 Oh sorry for the mistake, I swear it wasn't intentional.
How did they fix that back in the days ?
Hello,
when I used my colt 1861 (new navy), I had very few problem with caps. Perhaps because I crushed the caps and certainly because I turned my hand to the right and above when I armed the gun (The other way: armed the gun upstair the shoulder with the barrel in the opposite direction of target is too dangerous at a public shooting range).
I think, It's neccessary to do this manouevre with the police 1862 (when we know the recurrent problem between hammer and caps especially with this model).
Hello from belgium (and sorry for my englih) ;)
Viktor Dtz that’s fine for casual shooting, but if you were to use a cap and ball revolver for cowboy action shooting, that a would be a stage safety violation. Cowboy action shooting uses the 170 degree rule. Your firearm must always be pointed straight downrange, +/- 10 degrees in any direction.
Track of the Wolf
Mike i never got the lead ring on my 51 and 58 36 cailber revolvers. My question is i use 375 balls someone told me to use 380 balls seat better and groups better. What is your take on this keep using 375 or go to 380 balls? Great video thanks again God bless.
Train Bennett I use either, but I prefer .380”. I like a really good chamber seal
great hint the screw on his capper my do the same thing
NEAT VIDEO:
Yes the 1862 P0cket/Police were really neat guns and truly I dont know if Wild Bill carried a 62, But it's known that Civil War rader 'Bloody Bill Anderson' was known to favor the 1862 Colt, Myself how I solved the -slipping cap- problem was squeeze the cap tips with needle nose pliers and after that they didnt come off and yes they had better hotter caps in the old days, I know because I used to shoot the 'Extra Hot' Italian caps which you dont see anymore etc,etc, Tho my favorite Cap Pistols were the pair of 58 Remingtons in 44 cal I used to carry under my shirt and the one time I had to pull one for real the Muggers just ran off and they didnt get my wallet either, So yes folks Black Power revolvers truly do work, But really neat Video and I may get a 62 myself side's 'Bloddy Bill couldnt be wrong right, He He.
Frisco Joe,.
I love my Navies and my 60 army too
The old timers raised the barrel 90 degrees and cocked for each round. This flicks any loose caps out of the way pretty regulary. JB Weld is NOT the answer to the problem.
I carried an 1858 high Standare Griswold and Gunnison for defense in the 70s. I was in the USN and stationed in Virginia and not 21 yet so had little choice in a handgun to pack while traveling. It beats a sharp stickall to heck. Also it was good enough for Wild Bill.
Now I have a 686P SW. riding in a Simply Rugged holster.
Thank you for saying that all chambers would be loaded back in the day. I can't stand when I am at the range and some know it all comes up to me and regurgitates that load one skip one bullshit.
Back in the old days safety's were not thought about and after many accidents with single actions people started to think on how to make them safer to carry. The hammer thong on a holster was one. Many cowboys and ranch hands learned to carry their handgun on a empty cylinder because ridding through brush, things on their saddles, their clothing etc. might catch on the hammer. Some carried money or notes in the empty chamber. Cowboy Action shooting mandates carry on a empty chamber ( load one , skip one and load four and lower the hammer on the empty chamber). It's just about safety pal!
Also, did you have to "fix" the hammer of all your cap and balls revolver ?
just seen this mike another poss do a seach on fix The non jamming percussion Colt revolver
see what you think by capandball
I pinch my caps a bit between my fingers before I place them on the nipples. This makes them fit more snugly on the nipples, and as a result, I don't have the problem of caps coming off near as often. I have read that back in the 1800's, caps were made of a higher quality, and also fit the nipples of the guns more snugly. They also didn't fly apart like the modern ones do.
have you seen any historical references to specific fixes for stuff like this?
Is that the 5.5 or 6.5 bbl?
Is powder not corrosive before it is burned up?
how many grains of powder and what powder do you use?