Rebecca Yarros mostly wrote military romance novels. Red Tower Books asked her to write a fantasy romance. So it wouldn’t surprise me if Yarros read Maas’s books since Maas is the most successful fantasy romance author currently.
One similarity that really stood out to me was in The Assassin's Blade when Sam is fighting in the ring when Celaena comes to find him vs. when Xaden is fighting in the pits during Iron Flame and Violet comes to find him. VERY similar wording even so far as to say both Sam and Xaden are "playing" with their opponent and then immediately knock their opponent out once they see Celaena/Violet walk in.
Writing 'to genre' is often derivative and writing 'against genre' often isn't. Authors writing to genre and not wanting to change the direction of the genre, or 'write the book you can't buy and read', are writing to a target, with a view to satisfy the expectations of readers rather than challenge those expectations. Both have value (one being $$$$ real value, and the other being art)
Lol, there is an actual bingo ongoing for a while on some channels what will happen. How will look like the next character, what will do next, etc… you are right.
@@blakelynarcolepzzz1086 oh good question. I was just randomly looking for reviews of fantasy when I found a few SJM and looked into them I don’t subscribe to these, I’m not a romantasy reader by default, but those videos came out around this a bit earlier w a few months … (I read SJM - ToG when it came out but acotar made me annoyed at book 1 so DNFd, actually ToG also had a Mary Sue but I had enough boring time to read it fast… last time I read romance was Emily Henry and she is way better it’s a fun romcom like book type but I’m a Malazan fan so my bar is at Tolkien’s level if top tier is the question… these books in the title are very far from quality fantasy… )
I'm an avid fantasy reader and I think the "similarities" between Throne of Glass and Fourth Wing can be chalked to up to the books **being fantasy**. Those tropes (runic languages, wyvern/dragon riders, etc.) are EXTREMELY common and no, Sarah J. Maas was not the first one to ever put those tropes together. They are established tropes in the genre and I could give you dozxens of examples for them. I also have to agree that the scars on the back are a huge reach for me. They were acquired differently in their respective stories and those kinds of scars are not so uncommon (in a fantasy setting) that it would be copying. As for the ACOTAR / Black Jewel comparissons... THAT seems a little suss to me. But I haven't read both series.
While reading the Guild Hunter series, I noticed numerous references that might've inspired Sarah in her ACOTAR and Crescent City series. These included Angels (I mean similar hierarchy etc, winged people, a cadre, an inner circle), Shadowsinger spymaster with a similar story etc. If I recall correctly, she mentioned in an old interview that it was one of her favorite series. I believe inspiration can come from many sources, and there's nothing truly new under the sun. The key is to execute it well. :)
I did not ready SJM for a long time because Anne Bishops Black Jewels is my all time favorite series. I mean, their winged races are practically identical. That really upset me! I have since read ACOTAR and I loved it. I see the similarities, but I can also appreciate the differences. ACOTAR is a great story and a much lighter read than Black Jewels. Im happy so many people enjoy it, but i do wish that more people knew about Black Jewels. I have heard it described as an R rated ACOTAR and i think thats pretty accurate. Very dark with lots of heavy topics that make it an intense and layered story. Rhy is great, but Daddy Daemon will always be my number one book boyfriend 😂😂
My take as an outside observer who doesn’t have any stake in any of the works mentioned (Not a big fan of Mass or Yarros’s work nothing wrong with liking either, I’m just very much not the target audience): I don’t think either of them really classify as plagiarists. I think both series are just pretty tropey. They feel samey on some level because they share a lot of genre conventions, but Fourth Wing, Throne of Glass, and Game of Thrones all have more original elements core to the actual series identities. (Disabled protagonist at dragon college vs. full on fae assassin. Romantasy vs political grimdark). All genres have their tropes and Fantasy romance in particular recycles and plays up popular ones all the time. Unoriginal? Maybe. But that doesn’t bother readers who are specifically in it for the those same tropes. People like badass white haired characters, the “tall dark and handsome,” traumatic backstories, and a lot more specific examples that show up in combination over and over again too. How many times has secret royalty been a thing in media? Since the dawn of fiction basically. If you’re looking exclusively for super high concept fresh ideas, you probably aren’t going to read Yarros or Mass in the first place. As for full on plagerism? ACOTAR vs Black Jewel is the only example here that actually feels shady to me at all, but even then I don’t know if I see it as full on copying another person’s work and passing it off as her own, or just being lazy with her inspirations in a publishing industry niche that encourages it. The whole first book is marketed as a retelling after all. I’d see more of an issue if it came out she’d copied and paraphrased whole sections, stolen individual lines, OR presented a super original high-concept idea that isn’t already common place fantasy (idk a magic system based on glow worms or smthn?) and claimed she made it up. Without direct copying even the most samey ideas ever will still end up as different books by virtue of having different authors with different levels of excecution.
Yeah I mean especially with the first book ACOTAR it was so heavily influenced (or SJM as a writer was) but a few fantasy series and novels but for me it always read as more of a Eros & Psyche retelling than anything else and especially these two authors included didn’t exactly plagiarise but they took heavily from other books and authors which is bound to happen eventually because most books coming out now are not a new thing or a new niche but it’s what a writer does with certain tropes and influences that makes the difference & as long as they are upfront about it (and not a Cassie Clare) I don’t see the harm, as long as they are claiming they created this from nothing & that all ideas are their own then they’re not necessarily in the wrong and it’s then up to the consumer if they want to read & support them.
Tbh a lot of sub genres like romantasy share so many tropes. If you just take it into another genre its not a big deal but for some reason fantasy gets these conversations a lot. Like take office romance, there are bound to be similar stuff and tropes, of course. But for some reason fantasy seems more original with the world building because you have to work there to build the setting
As for wyverns/dragons.... GRRM had dragons which are technically wyverns (2 hind legs and 2 wings that can also be used as support, from my POV wyverns are a type of dragons, inspired by the game Dragon Cave), Christopher Paolini had dragons and elves, Cassandra Clare's Mortal Instruments has Runics all over the body In fact runic languages are (almost) as old as human kind, so.... that's part of our own history. Fantasy creators borrowed the whole rune concept from several cultures dead and alive. Outlander has torture (quite impressive I might add)... Torture is something from our own history.... IIRC that can also be found in GoT in various ways. I have only read SJM Thhrone of Glass series. I haven't read the Black Jewels nor the Fourth Wings series. From the comparison between ACOTAR and Black Jewels, that's some heavy inspiration drawing, bordering on plagiarism indeed.
She took this book series straight from an indie author on wattpad! The series is by SoaiMarie the first book is called “The Riders Fate” she took the meat and potatoes of that book and just mixed it around in hers.
Will you be reading the Anne Bishop books? I am always wary of list comparisons like that since a lot of the time it’s like the Kimba the White Lion vs. The Lion King controversy.
my I suggest Mr. Fix It and Miss Sue? It is not very popular at the moment but I have not read anything like it. I would like to hear your thoughts on it.
I’ve loved Black Jewels since high school in the early 2000’s. Anne Bishop’s other series are really good too btw, but Black Jewels has always held a special place in my heart. The first time I read ACOTAR last year I didn’t make any connections but it had been probably 5 - 6 years since I’d last done a re-read of Black Jewels. But when I did a re-read of Black Jewels last month I was like ohhhhhh. The winged people / populations are soooo similar, but they’re also different? Idk. Fine line I think between inspiration and plagiarism. Tough spot. But I don’t think ACOTAR and Black Jewels are the same story, not at all. I think ACOTAR was heavily inspired by Black Jewels, and some tropes or power systems may be similar, but they are very very different series. And Black Jewels is for sure much darker than ACOTAR. But anywho! I’ve only recently discovered you two and enjoy your discussions! With Black Jewels being one of my all time favorite and most loved series, I cannot wait to see what you two think of it! Id love to see it gain popularity. I was excited to see Arcane Society doing special editions of the first 3 books / original trilogy. Hoping Anne Bishop might get the recognition I think she’s more than worthy of. Ready for book tok to scoop her up and run with it.
Can you please do a vidoe about how Powerless by lauren roberts PLAGIARIZED Red Queen and the hunger games. There are so many scenes that are word for word the SAME! And people who said they didnt like red queen, said they had to stop reading powerless because it was too much like it.
I have read the same plots for many fantasy romance. I’m 42 so I have been reading fantasy before I should have been and they are pretty similar. Just like there are so many thrillers with the same plot. It is what it is we will read them anyways😂
Rebecca Yarros mostly wrote military romance novels. Red Tower Books asked her to write a fantasy romance. So it wouldn’t surprise me if Yarros read Maas’s books since Maas is the most successful fantasy romance author currently.
One similarity that really stood out to me was in The Assassin's Blade when Sam is fighting in the ring when Celaena comes to find him vs. when Xaden is fighting in the pits during Iron Flame and Violet comes to find him. VERY similar wording even so far as to say both Sam and Xaden are "playing" with their opponent and then immediately knock their opponent out once they see Celaena/Violet walk in.
Mentioned that after LotR, the popular read was elves etc. 2010’s was dystopian era. Hunger games, Divergent, Selection
Writing 'to genre' is often derivative and writing 'against genre' often isn't. Authors writing to genre and not wanting to change the direction of the genre, or 'write the book you can't buy and read', are writing to a target, with a view to satisfy the expectations of readers rather than challenge those expectations. Both have value (one being $$$$ real value, and the other being art)
I’m more annoyed at SJM for copying her own ideas and reusing them.
Lol, there is an actual bingo ongoing for a while on some channels what will happen. How will look like the next character, what will do next, etc… you are right.
@@nazimelmardiwhich channels? 😂
@@blakelynarcolepzzz1086 oh good question. I was just randomly looking for reviews of fantasy when I found a few SJM and looked into them I don’t subscribe to these, I’m not a romantasy reader by default, but those videos came out around this a bit earlier w a few months … (I read SJM - ToG when it came out but acotar made me annoyed at book 1 so DNFd, actually ToG also had a Mary Sue but I had enough boring time to read it fast… last time I read romance was Emily Henry and she is way better it’s a fun romcom like book type but I’m a Malazan fan so my bar is at Tolkien’s level if top tier is the question… these books in the title are very far from quality fantasy… )
I'm an avid fantasy reader and I think the "similarities" between Throne of Glass and Fourth Wing can be chalked to up to the books **being fantasy**. Those tropes (runic languages, wyvern/dragon riders, etc.) are EXTREMELY common and no, Sarah J. Maas was not the first one to ever put those tropes together. They are established tropes in the genre and I could give you dozxens of examples for them. I also have to agree that the scars on the back are a huge reach for me. They were acquired differently in their respective stories and those kinds of scars are not so uncommon (in a fantasy setting) that it would be copying. As for the ACOTAR / Black Jewel comparissons... THAT seems a little suss to me. But I haven't read both series.
While reading the Guild Hunter series, I noticed numerous references that might've inspired Sarah in her ACOTAR and Crescent City series. These included Angels (I mean similar hierarchy etc, winged people, a cadre, an inner circle), Shadowsinger spymaster with a similar story etc. If I recall correctly, she mentioned in an old interview that it was one of her favorite series. I believe inspiration can come from many sources, and there's nothing truly new under the sun. The key is to execute it well. :)
I did not ready SJM for a long time because Anne Bishops Black Jewels is my all time favorite series. I mean, their winged races are practically identical. That really upset me! I have since read ACOTAR and I loved it. I see the similarities, but I can also appreciate the differences. ACOTAR is a great story and a much lighter read than Black Jewels. Im happy so many people enjoy it, but i do wish that more people knew about Black Jewels. I have heard it described as an R rated ACOTAR and i think thats pretty accurate. Very dark with lots of heavy topics that make it an intense and layered story. Rhy is great, but Daddy Daemon will always be my number one book boyfriend 😂😂
Yahh it’s Monday soo excited for this episode!! Congrats on 10k on instagram ❤
Our favourites? Sweetie I do not care for mediocrity like Yarros and SJM.
My take as an outside observer who doesn’t have any stake in any of the works mentioned (Not a big fan of Mass or Yarros’s work nothing wrong with liking either, I’m just very much not the target audience):
I don’t think either of them really classify as plagiarists. I think both series are just pretty tropey. They feel samey on some level because they share a lot of genre conventions, but Fourth Wing, Throne of Glass, and Game of Thrones all have more original elements core to the actual series identities. (Disabled protagonist at dragon college vs. full on fae assassin. Romantasy vs political grimdark).
All genres have their tropes and Fantasy romance in particular recycles and plays up popular ones all the time. Unoriginal? Maybe. But that doesn’t bother readers who are specifically in it for the those same tropes. People like badass white haired characters, the “tall dark and handsome,” traumatic backstories, and a lot more specific examples that show up in combination over and over again too. How many times has secret royalty been a thing in media? Since the dawn of fiction basically. If you’re looking exclusively for super high concept fresh ideas, you probably aren’t going to read Yarros or Mass in the first place.
As for full on plagerism? ACOTAR vs Black Jewel is the only example here that actually feels shady to me at all, but even then I don’t know if I see it as full on copying another person’s work and passing it off as her own, or just being lazy with her inspirations in a publishing industry niche that encourages it. The whole first book is marketed as a retelling after all. I’d see more of an issue if it came out she’d copied and paraphrased whole sections, stolen individual lines, OR presented a super original high-concept idea that isn’t already common place fantasy (idk a magic system based on glow worms or smthn?) and claimed she made it up. Without direct copying even the most samey ideas ever will still end up as different books by virtue of having different authors with different levels of excecution.
Yeah I mean especially with the first book ACOTAR it was so heavily influenced (or SJM as a writer was) but a few fantasy series and novels but for me it always read as more of a Eros & Psyche retelling than anything else and especially these two authors included didn’t exactly plagiarise but they took heavily from other books and authors which is bound to happen eventually because most books coming out now are not a new thing or a new niche but it’s what a writer does with certain tropes and influences that makes the difference & as long as they are upfront about it (and not a Cassie Clare) I don’t see the harm, as long as they are claiming they created this from nothing & that all ideas are their own then they’re not necessarily in the wrong and it’s then up to the consumer if they want to read & support them.
Just started Daughter of the Blood by Anne Bishop and already 3 similarities with ACOTAR within the first 2 chapters!
Tbh a lot of sub genres like romantasy share so many tropes.
If you just take it into another genre its not a big deal but for some reason fantasy gets these conversations a lot.
Like take office romance, there are bound to be similar stuff and tropes, of course. But for some reason fantasy seems more original with the world building because you have to work there to build the setting
As for wyverns/dragons.... GRRM had dragons which are technically wyverns (2 hind legs and 2 wings that can also be used as support, from my POV wyverns are a type of dragons, inspired by the game Dragon Cave), Christopher Paolini had dragons and elves, Cassandra Clare's Mortal Instruments has Runics all over the body
In fact runic languages are (almost) as old as human kind, so.... that's part of our own history. Fantasy creators borrowed the whole rune concept from several cultures dead and alive.
Outlander has torture (quite impressive I might add)... Torture is something from our own history.... IIRC that can also be found in GoT in various ways.
I have only read SJM Thhrone of Glass series. I haven't read the Black Jewels nor the Fourth Wings series.
From the comparison between ACOTAR and Black Jewels, that's some heavy inspiration drawing, bordering on plagiarism indeed.
She took this book series straight from an indie author on wattpad! The series is by SoaiMarie the first book is called “The Riders Fate” she took the meat and potatoes of that book and just mixed it around in hers.
Will you be reading the Anne Bishop books? I am always wary of list comparisons like that since a lot of the time it’s like the Kimba the White Lion vs. The Lion King controversy.
Very interesting!
my I suggest Mr. Fix It and Miss Sue? It is not very popular at the moment but I have not read anything like it. I would like to hear your thoughts on it.
I’ve loved Black Jewels since high school in the early 2000’s. Anne Bishop’s other series are really good too btw, but Black Jewels has always held a special place in my heart. The first time I read ACOTAR last year I didn’t make any connections but it had been probably 5 - 6 years since I’d last done a re-read of Black Jewels. But when I did a re-read of Black Jewels last month I was like ohhhhhh. The winged people / populations are soooo similar, but they’re also different? Idk. Fine line I think between inspiration and plagiarism. Tough spot. But I don’t think ACOTAR and Black Jewels are the same story, not at all. I think ACOTAR was heavily inspired by Black Jewels, and some tropes or power systems may be similar, but they are very very different series. And Black Jewels is for sure much darker than ACOTAR. But anywho! I’ve only recently discovered you two and enjoy your discussions! With Black Jewels being one of my all time favorite and most loved series, I cannot wait to see what you two think of it! Id love to see it gain popularity. I was excited to see Arcane Society doing special editions of the first 3 books / original trilogy. Hoping Anne Bishop might get the recognition I think she’s more than worthy of. Ready for book tok to scoop her up and run with it.
Rowan is not ice. He is wind. Dorian is ice.
The words you're looking for are "published fanfic"
If Fourth Wing plagiarized ToG. Then Percy Jackson plagiarized Harry Potter. Thats how silly these comparisons are.
I saw a tiktok that said ACOTAR cast was the Twilight cast....they were so right
I can't unsee this
Can you please do a vidoe about how Powerless by lauren roberts PLAGIARIZED Red Queen and the hunger games. There are so many scenes that are word for word the SAME! And people who said they didnt like red queen, said they had to stop reading powerless because it was too much like it.
I have read the same plots for many fantasy romance. I’m 42 so I have been reading fantasy before I should have been and they are pretty similar.
Just like there are so many thrillers with the same plot. It is what it is we will read them anyways😂
JK Rowling plagiarized Harry Potter from Neil Gaiman. It’s pretty plain. Look up Timothy Hunter in Books of Magic