The Oldest Game | The Sandman | Netflix Philippines
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2022
- To recover his helm, Morpheus (Tom Sturridge) must go through the oldest game and face the ruler of Hell themself-Lucifer Morningstar (Gwendolyn Christie). Based on the award-winning DC comic series by Neil Gaiman, The Sandman is now streaming on Netflix.
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#TheSandman #NeilGaiman #TomSturridge
The Oldest Game | The Sandman | Netflix Philippines
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After years of imprisonment, Morpheus - the King of Dreams - embarks on a journey across worlds to find what was stolen from him and restore his power. - บันเทิง
"What kills hope?"
"Iam a minimum wage job, hope crushing, debt unfulfilling.
Jezz man, why so few likes.... Too relatable I guess
Depression, end of the world, death itself...etc there are many things that can kill hope XD
@@Pablo-gc1roThen why are you still here?
@@XJ0461C because I don't have those things.
@Pablo-gc1ro Fair, but plenty do who still choose to live. If hope could truly be killed by any of them, those people wouldn't be. Just as anyone can have hope for the future, a great career, a loving family, and yet still fall victim to depression and take their own life.
Lucifer: I am... Netflix. Season cancelling... fan-dreams dashing.
😂 or James Gunn
Idk why I laughed hard at this lol
It was so random lmao 🤣 😂 😆 💀
hahaha, good one,
SMH lol
I am Disney +. Subscriber stealing. Content mogul.
An accurate representation of two roleplayers engaged in rp combat unwilling to let their character lose
Me and my brothers increasingly invincible shields amd unblockable lasers times infinity plus 1
Lucifer: I am anti-Life
Darkseid: It was supposed to be me! not him ...
Well, the anti life it´s only a simple coin for Lucifer or the endless,because they are much more powerful than darkseid or super hero.
Lucifer is Lightbringer so Lucifer can't kill hope
Good ygo ref there. Love it.
her??
Lucifer is canonically way more powerful than Darkseid
"Tell me Lucifer Morningstar, what power would Hell have if those here imprisoned were not able to dream, of Heaven." Neil Gaimen is such a good writer! lol
Damnnnnnn!!!
One of the very best!
Reminds me of a God of War 3 note in Hades, "loss and agony I know too well, but it's when the voice sings of hope, do I truly suffer"
That line... Chills...
@@sanggreceleste33 I didn't understand that line, care to elaborate?
The fact that Lucifer cannot bring herself to to “kill” hope itself bc it would mean forever abandoning any chance to escaping Hell. Thats why the cut of her going “give him back his helm” is so perfect.
you get it.
Indeed
And I personally like to choose to think that it's not that Lucifer doesn't know how to kill hope but choose not to. Because as you said, that would mean abandoning the one thing they're not will to give up on
It would mean killing herself. Lucifer Morning Star, the Light Bringer, Dawn Bringer, her name suggests Hope. Dawn is the symbol of Hope, so as bringing light and a morning star. It was checkmate.
@@chriscyrelestil304 that title about hope is no longer relate with lucifer
After lose in the war, he just is lucifer the fallen angel
And even if he still is lucifer morning star, his title not bound by the hope of dream, it should be the opposite, hope of dream will be bound by lucifer
Because lucifer is who beyond dream
when i first saw this fight i was impressed as other movies and shows don't know or don't understand what a spiritual battle is, this was extremely well done.
howl's moving castle did it very well imo
how? reality kills hope and Luc didn't know that!? Luc needs to get out more.
it was GAYYYEEE
@@thejamesasher Hope inspires us to shift reality.
@@thejamesasherreality doesn't kill hope. How one interprets reality is more important than reality itself for our emotions and state of mind
I love how they express such monumental levels of power in such a esoteric/abstract way for a change, it differentiates the from the typical ‘super powered’ hero/villain, and as they should be; these guys are the kinda guys that are quite literally the next thing to God in DC himself
Absolutely. My favorite part of the comic
Its a different kind of story.
@@michellestr8998 facts
@@CE77777 They called it the oldest game. I assume God and Lucifer or Archangel Micheal played it when they got bored, like people play bridge or something.
@@michellestr8998 may well be, they could even adapt it as the game that God used to create creation itself with the way it works, an that only beings with creative prowess of god like beings can even qualify to play due to the nature & scale of their powers
This is how battles between abstract, all-powerful entities should be, not a series of flashy blasts. Instead a battle of will and imagination.
This scene is a tribute and reference to the 1960s animated film titled The sword in the stone. It is take of Merlin the wizard battle a duel with a wicked witch at medieval England.
Lmfao no it shouldnt, in the Bible lucifer gets his teeth kicked in by Michael.
@@hussainakram6823 cool fact, thanks for the new knowledge.
@@rubengalindo8298 well maybe the Bible authors didn't have a good imagination.
@@rubengalindo8298 he means in the movies
One of the most interesting style of fights. It would seem almost silly that these power beings would have a typical fight. Great imagination.
Indeed.
Right? Imagine them fighting like superheroes.. Great solution here!
I'm glad they don't fight like typical superheroes lol. These beings are like... Outerversal. Making them shoot beams at each other would feel silly & underwhelming instead, like Spectre vs Anti Monitor in those CW shows.
@@caffemocca8855 you could say the MCU does the same as CW when using a cosmic character. Both of them are garbage.
What exactly is happening here
Morpheus: I am ...YOUR FATHER
Lucifer: Oh, bloody hell
It's impossible!!!!!!!!
2:43 i just realize when she says "i am the anti-life" the silhouette of angel or her appears as the darkness ..
*him?
@@MihajloNasticSuch beings wouldn't really have a gender they're a bit beyond all that
@@mrcheesemunch they have no gender but are reffered to as male/men. Their pronounce/pronounse is He/him and Lucifer was always in all texts mentioned with male pronons like all other angels. They would not really have genders but you MUST refer to them in same gender they and their creator refer to them. Either use He/Him/Himself or go by genderless since if we are objective female is wrong.
@@mrcheesemunch if you say they dont have gender then that is counter argument on @istanakucing07 too because that person misgendered either way.
@@MihajloNastic Lucifer is Lucifer
Whoever cast Gwendoline Christie as Lucifer needs a medal.
few realize this but yeah she's perfect
@@boxy3087 she’s got that angelic presence and demonic pressure
Not rlly
@@barbatos6407 glad you're not a casting agent, all of on-screen media is better because of that fact.
I think it was Neil Gaiman himself, I’m pretty sure he had her in mind during pre-pre production
I adore the way Dream says "I am a universe. All things encompassing, all life embracing." His voice is soothing and gives me chills at the same time.
Yea I liked that to when Lucifer said she was anti life and dream said he was hope it reminded of Superman and darksied
And contrary to that, Lucifer replies with "I am anti-life, The Beast of judgement" gave me chills, just imagining the end of everything with a few words.
The podcast with his chapter is very soothing, it put me straight to sleep last night and i say that as a good thing. So comforting, his voice
1000th like here! I totally agree, this is my most favorite scene and I love that part the most.
@Anida: Yeah, a voice that you wish you could curl up inside...
🙏🏽💔🙏🏻
Her voice, her tone, her accent, is mesmerizing.
Love the depiction of this fight. So weird and creative. I like the change that it's between Morpheus and Lucifer rather than the demon that took the helm. Bit of building for things to come. For some reason I was surprised they kept Anti-Life because it's such a DC concept, but I suppose it's name spells out what it is clearly enough for non-comic readers.
edit: except I hate Matthew butting in. Feels like it should be against the rules, for one. And for two it's way too heavy handed, too much spelling shit out. I'm sure Patton's a huge fan of the graphic novel but his voice is distracting. Minecraft story mode sounding ass
Yeah, I didn't like that either. Was almost like Dream was giving up when in the comics he maneuvered the demon into a trap. He was a little bit too weak-willed in this live-action....
Holy shit I just hit that part in the clip and it is ROUGH
62% of Americans never went to college. Spelling shit out is almost necessary so the dumb viewers out there would understand what is happening. You'd notice actors explaining concepts when they should be obvious to everyone in the scene. Even the Lord of the Rings movies have it. "A diversion", as if we don't know. We do, but there are countless others who don't.
I wish they'd gone with something other than anti-life. Like "entropy" or "the big freeze". Suppose those couldn't be countered by hope though.
This is how a fight between Gods should be!!
" I am anti-life, the dark, at the end of everything" that line gave me chills
The way she says it as well, i find it absolutely brilliant. So softly, it’s almost like a caress
I love how it is a concept that wins in the end. Hope is a construct, often fleeting but always ready to be born again.
Took me a few watches to notice Lucifer encompassing the universe as it dies.
the morning star was criminally under-power in it's own show
I was waiting for some John Wick action slow mo shit but damn this really blew away my expectations
Dream: I am hope
Me: I am depression
Dream: I am therapy
Me: I am broke
Fatality.
i am work
Me: I am frustration
Dream: I am hope
Me: I am exhaustion
Dream: I am rest
Me: I am work
Dream: I am freedom
Me: I am slavery
_"I am Spartacus!"_
@@BuriedFlame 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love how when he says "I am hope" you can literally see the effect in that realm rather than it just cutting to what I'm assuming is the Mind space(?). Really cool detail!!
Lucifer's voice literally giving me chills to the bone
The way Morpheus and Lucifer battle through wits and imagination rather than strength and power is exactly the kind of thing that Gods would do. This scene is what solidified this show as one of my all-time favorites.
Agreed, I was so pleasantly surprised by the battle.
no, the way supernaturals fight is through us.
@@slewone4905 there is no such thing as something that is supernatural. Everything can be explained.
Brienne of Tarth using a direwolf was cool.
The fact that their imaginations actually *affects* them in all real way just make it more powerful.
The best part about this "game" is that everything can be beaten, everything has a counter. However, in order to destroy something you must accept the absolute truth of what you become, and there are things which we all refuse to do. Lucifer cannot destroy hope without accepting the inevitability of it's defeat in the great war. The way to win is not to think of something bigger or grander than the opponent, but to understand the opponent before they understand you.
They are also very powerful as they can survive poison, i wouldn't recommend this game to normal humans
@@ajedrezbrasil7968 yes, they are outerversal entities after all
Very good point. The only counter to hope is doubt and to accept that Lucifer would have to accept that despair
Doubt does not defeat hope completely. It's not really an effective counter.
YES! Someone who gets it.
I mean, it should be obvious to Lucifer of all beings what destroys hope
"Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here" read the gates of Hell according to Dante
HELL
Hell is the thing that destroys hope.
Or at least it should be...
Except Lucifer the Light Bringer, the first one to be on Hell, has still not lost hope for a life outside Hell
The age of the universe they has been cast into the place that destroys all hope and they still hold on to a shiver of hope
That's why the Morning Star can't respond to that move
“What is it that kills hope” I AM DEPRESSION
The point is not that hope cannot be killed, it's that Dream understands that Lucifer will not do it. Because then hope dies for him to (hope to escape hell, win the war against his father etc). So he gives up.
This scene will never get old.
Which chapter is this bro?
Pardon?
“I am anti-life” as she spoke in the calmest, peaceful and most innocent demeanor. This scene is top notched!! If it wasn’t for episode 5-6, this will be my favorite episode! They captured the brilliance and magnificence of Lucifer in this scene! Kudos to Gwendoline for portraying it well!
It would be more of a detached, apathetic and melancholic demeanor over peaceful/innocent. But agreed! Great scene with a fantastic actor.
"I am a bacterium"? really?
@@chessophy3688 huh? It was a game of things that trump other things that made sense
@@chessophy3688 deadlier than anything else on earth so it makes sense. there literally was no other non cosmic thing he could choose after that
I Am The Multiverse
Alternative Realities Different Worlds Alternative Earths
When Matthew said: "I believe Dream of the Endless would never leave his raven behind in hell with Lucifer."
That was touching.
Yeah, and he's lucky that Lucifer show mercy and don't burn him alive in that moment LoL
That was so stupid. Just spelled it all out. Ruined the whole thing
I thought to myself... "I am a 9-5 Job at Wal-mart, hope crushing dream wrecking"
Imagine being Matthew, one day you are a regular lad and the next day you are a raven servant of Dream and you are in a grave danger of getting stuck in hell.
That's the Hope, spoked by Dream
I love how much they SELL this. And how well it's directed.
This scene was so perfect that i am watching it again and again , it depicts the very much concept that first dream was trying a head on battle with lucifer by attacking lucifer but then he just changed , and started to save himself to the point where lucifer herself gets convinced to give his helmet back .
It’s so interesting how it starts off with scenarios that inflict damage and then Dream starts defending by explaining scenarios that inspire life and creation. It’s a perfect way to show how different Lucifer and Dream are in terms of personalities.
For me its the most threatening depiction of lucifer in a biblical sense on any tv show rn. Youd think shes a sinner in a human sense. No. Shes a sinner of the type bigger than mankind. An angel, a powerful one, that despises everything the Endless cares about.
I havent read the comics but is there any reason why she just stays in hell and not wreak havoc in the waking world?
@@angela.luntian Lucifer is a male played by a woman. What is so hard to understand about that? Lol
@@eligreg99 Lucifer is actually neither
@@angela.luntian I won’t spoil anything but Lucifer plays a fairly massive role later on in the story and they kind of answer that.
@@FloydRos Lucifer is 100% a male that is suppose to look androgynous. There’s no debate about that you can go look it up.
This scene is epic. I was expecting a duel of physical and magical strength. What's more amazing with this Oldest Game, is we used to play this when we were kids, not as eloquent and deadly thou.😄
Yes I remember those, right along with the 'my daddy can beat up your daddy' battles
Or "your mama is so fat" games, even here in Brazil we have these kind of games
Well they did state that Lucifer is eons ahead of him in power, even with full power, so I knew they were gonna have to improvise somehow
@@bluejay9638 yeah, maybe Dream of the Endless would lose or even die if it's a real fight against Lucifer Morningstar, Ruler of Hell
Thats why we are all Gods children And always protected coz there is nothing to hurt us . This represents universal win in any reality .
I love how Lucifer looks like a macabre medieval painting brought to life, pointed wings and all.
frfr
whenever i feel sad, i always watch this scene.....that all life embracing gives me chill every single time
The fact that they both had tears in their eyes by the end of the fight is kind of haunting. Dream for his belief in what he says, Lucifer for realizing it's been outplayed.
On top of that, Dream is never seen standing above Lucifer- They are made to look to be the more powerful in many ways, but at the end Dream is back on his feet looking up despite the odds. The camera operation in this is phenomenal. :)
I truly believe that when he said hope lucifer remembered he was the light bringer at one time which is hope
I think Lucifer was thinking of its hope of reconciliation and redemption. Hope was its deepest wish, and therefore deepest fear.
Even Lou can't stop hope, what a treat.
@@sleeplesssongbird7625 I gotta say, Lucifer is probably stronger than the endless, After cutting himself from the presence. He isn't even tied to any of that stuff anymore.
I love how they depicted luci as an actual angel and somewhat innocent looking.
That's how Lucifer is factuallly depicted in the bible
@Longneck You miss the point.
Morpheus ask: what is it that kills Hope?
The answer: The End of Dreams. By defeating him she defeats herself and as a result Doubt held her back.
I think they could have casted a better actor for lucifer who is actually terrifying because Lucifer reigns Hell with Fear
@@madaramanulp2595 Lucifer is supposed to be tempting
@Jowey de la Nota yeah but look at the actress is she tempting????
Most ppl have no idea just how good this scene brought Biblical principles into play! For with hope, faith is strengthened, even in the absence of tangible evidence and sensible reasoning!
The dialog delivery of the sandman is astonishing maan the bestest, I couldn't off my head since I watched the series👏👏👏👌👌👌
I still can't believe they adapted this scene so well from the comic. The show does take some liberties in streamlining the story, but it still stays extremely faithful to the source material and making it even more impactful. Best show of 2022!!
Netflix makes a lot of mistakes in several productions, but when it gets it right, it hits with everything it has.. this series is magnificent.
Probably because the author Neil Gaiman is an executive producer.
@@hidankakuzu6052 that is true. I think he got the grasp on what works on the pages but doesn't on film. Like on the page it looked like a slam poetry "battle", with a lowly demon in a club like setting. There was no raven, and Dream won by somewhat turning the table, since he figured out the way the demon ramps up the game. In the show it had more impact. Sure I missed the other two lords of hell, and Etrigan leading Dream to the palace, the lore between being a rhymer, but not dearly. I liked the show, and I refreshed the volumes. Say, can anyone tell me if the audio book is any good? I'm thinking about that one too for comparison. Thank you. And of course this was only my point of view. Cheers!
I love sandman but best show of 2022 must be Severance
Netflix will still cancel this if it wants to.
Matthew is the bravest, most loyal animal companion ever. Imagine telling LUCIFER off while in hell, in her face, while supporting your boss.
And still respecting Lucifer's title! Matthew really balances a tightrope here and I'm proud of him!
Well lucifer has honor duel anything else is beneath him
great character terrible choice of VA, Patton Oswalt is just an annoying voice to hear.
Such an amazing piece of work! Absolutely loved this scene.
This scene blew my mind, one of the most if not the most creative "fight" I've ever seen in a show
Love how they made lucy so calm and charismatic in this scene rather then intimidating
Its all part of what lucifer is all about
Deceiving
But even though she looks very friendly you just know that she can kill you in a blink of an eye
Imo much better then other portrayals with horns and scorched skin and blacked out eyes
Not too mention, those depictions are far from accurate
I think Lucifer is a he in sandman but just appears like a woman for biblical accuracy
Yeah bri dc lucifer is just something else
@@scorpo.2000.platinum Indeed
Lucifer was the most beautiful angel according to the Bible
The best part of Dream's last move is that it puts Lucifer in a REALLY tough position, personally-wise. Plenty things can "kill" hope if you think about it. Certain familiar powers like Despair, Destiny, Death or Destruction, for instance.
However, Hope is something that even Demons and Fallen Angels depend on. Lucifer and the Legions of Hell still hope to win Apocalypse and defy God (who they perceive as a tyrant who must be dethroned), after all. It's the neutral force of motivation and will to power, a middle term between the realms of Dream (i.e. imagination, the dreaming of what you don't have) and Desire (i.e. self-explanatory, the wishing for something you don't have). Satanism, for example, is all about the idea that you can ultimately overcome all imposed rules and structures of a tyrannous God and a society that worships him.
Declaring something can kill Hope would be declaring that God's will is absolute, and that Lucifer can never win because God wills it. It's be trapping oneself in the falsehood that Destiny can just write your doom in his book and thus it's sealed in stone, when he's more like an observer of all possibilities. Dream basically dropped a Logic Bomb Paradox on Lucifer that she can't answer to without declaring surrender.
Thanks for explaining it
Dang maybe they should’ve just thrown hands
Makes no difference.
The destiny of Satan cannot be changed.
@@mosog8829
Is this the religious god talk? Cause you're barking up the _wrong_ tree, buddy.
@@DeathMessenger1988 so what if it is?
Fav episode. I often come back to watch just this one.
pretty darn good considering how hard the comic would be to translate into a live action
Lucifer also relies on hope, as in she hopes to one day regain heaven. She can't denounce its power without denouncing herself, as hope is actually what keeps her going.
Actually in comics this lucifer doesn't give 2 cent about heaven but hope matter to him because lucifer entire plot revolve around hope that one day he will break free from his father great plan that is everything in existence is pre determined and no one truly has any free will. So if he kill hope he is basically killing the reason he fighting or existing for.
@@kindle184 Which is what makes this duel, and it’s conclusion, so brilliant. How do you kill a dream? How do you beat hope? You don’t. Brilliant!
Yeah and in the bible, Jesus gives us hope that lucifer cant get away from humankind.
I think this is the moment Lucifer want to do something for herself, that is to leave Hell.
@@kindle184 While the particulars differ, this is essentially the point SpiderSpecs was making.
hands down the most visually stunning moment of the series. Gwendolyn Christie is marvelous as Lucifer Morningstar. Can't wait to see more of her.
Amen... no pun intended
yeah at first I was not at all sure I was gonna like her as Lucifer...but she had me in two seconds...the entire was masterfully done..
is the series out or this is just a teaser ????
@@danielmohave8280 it’s out
No
This is the coolest duel ever. Love the accent.
That scene deserves an oscar
Not only is this one of the most jaw dropping fight i have ever seen in a movie with biblical characters but it also show how creative the writers are! Amazing! " I am hope"
A Trip Into The Supernatural - Roger Morneau 1925-1998
th-cam.com/video/Ird-BKuPRlw/w-d-xo.html
Yes , all you say is true, I see it sometimes, and sometimes it moves me, because in a sense after the end there is hope that we will endure. That the anti life the heat death of the universe, somehow will not be the end.
Show writers hardly have anything to with dialogues. The lines are exactly extracted from comics verbatim with just some lines cut to save runtime. That's why it is such a good show.... They didn't try to change things from the comics except the usual(Like John becomes Johanna)
The shows writers didn’t do shit. This is ALL Neil Gaiman.
One writer, Neil Gaiman. He wrote this scene back in 1988, word for word. But in the comics it was with the demon Choronzon, not Lucifer.
When Dream just says "Hope" and Hell is illuminated up for the first time ever. The way he then reminds Lucifer of the title of 'lightbringer' was a defeat that will never be forgotten.
Smackdown defeat
Didn't notice the lights or better put i didn't think it was important. This was a nice view of the scene
Lucifer then will make Dream Pay for this defeat, giving him the most dreadful political problem to solve in several eons.
One of the best movie series I've ever seen.
This is probably my favorite scene in the series. A fight between entities beyond the realms.
The look on Lucifer's face when she realizes she's lost is so perfect, it literally dawns on her. Her hatred of Heaven gives her power, but the hatred is derived from a desperate hope to return to the Presence (if my memory of the comics is correct.) To kill hope would destroy her as well.
No lucifer wants to escape predestination....he doesn't want heaven,he doesn't want to follow his creator's plans for him
@@leekirash275 - And that hope of escaping predestination, the dream of doing so, is what fuels her rage.
Exactly there is no point to Lucifer existence if she can't punish and she can't punish without people being able to dream.
@@brendacastillo8146 you misunderstand something
Lucifer and hell is different thing
Lucifer only rule hell because the presence put him in that posittion,
He not exist to rule hell, even if dream die and it make trouble for hell, it only make trouble to lucifer too because his posittion
It not relate his existence
@@vietcuongnguyenle8530 by existence I mean Lucifer purpose, I know he is not going to disintegrate if dream dies.
When I first watched this scene, I was expecting a physical battle and was hoping it would be brief, but when I realized that wasn't the case, I was rather impressed. Well done, Gaiman.
It actually make sense because before the battle, he admitted that Lucifer is way stronger than him and challenging Lucifer in a physical battle will be suicide. So an imagination battle happened instead.
@@Dennis-hy7jb He didn't challenge Lucifer. Lucifer was called on as a champion for the opponent after the challenge was made; a challenge that was chosen prior to Lucifer being named champion. Also, it was a battle of wits, not an "imagination battle", LoL.
@@tulekahju it’s an imagination battle while also being a battle of wits lmao
@@reallysadweeb4454 We'll have to agree to disagree; the visual effects emulating their battle of wits are just for us, the viewer. Also, I think it's inspired by the Transformation Chase.
@@tulekahju it can be both. You need a strong imagination to think of counters to your opponent, and you need a strong wit to be able to use said imagination
I was worried about how they’d handle this scene. It’s my absolute favorite Dream moment.
I am relieved.
It almost feels like Dream could feel luficer's hope in returning to Heaven Dream is on the verge of crying knowing how tragic that hope is for the Lightbringer himself
I loved the inclusion of Nada's line "I won't lose hope". This line is the inspiration for Morpheus to win.
ohhhh that's a good catch
And that Matthew was convinced that "Dream of the Endless would never leave his raven alone in hell with Lucifer," even after learning that that's what he did to Nada. As if he simply couldn't accept that that's who Dream was and believed he was better than that. He, too, had hope.
I hate that she was in this episode. The comic covers her better.
@@douglaspaulson9190
Nah. This was more effective.
And made the dispute between them personal.
@@douglaspaulson9190 She appears in the first arc in the comics too
This was my favorite scene in the show. I was expecting a physical fight and then it was the opposite, and the way it was executed was so interesting.
I read the comics so I had a general idea of how it would play out, but the way they adapted it was amazing.
I loved this episode, two of the multiverse strongest beings having a chess game with their mind.
This is the greatest depiction I have ever seen of a battle between cosmic entities. So damn unique.
I love this scene, specially the choice of Gaiman to use "hope" because at the end of the day, when you are suffering, alone and everything you've ever build has been shattered and torn the only thing that keeps you going is hope. Hope that tomorrow will be better, that no pain lasts forever, and daylight will dawn in your life again. This scene got to me because I've suffered much in life, and honestly hope is the only thing that remains at the end and gets you to keep going and not give up, even when everything is dark.
The other reason why it is so clever is that Lucifer knows what can kill hope: destiny, but answering that would mean that they acknowledged can never indeed win against God, cause it would've been part of the greater plan, which is what Lucifer tries to defy. Aaaaaaah, Love that show and it's writing 💕🏳⚧
@@scarlettaddams What is that heathen symbol?
But if Luci was anti-life, which kills life, who can hope than?
I feel this. I’m an atheist, always been one. There was a period in my life when I thought my mental disorder would never get better and that my story wouldn’t end well. I remember thinking I didn’t even have God to fall back on. One day, I was passing in front of my city’s cathedral and I remember reflecting on my lack of faith in a higher power and thinking: “I hope I’m wrong”. I didn’t become a believer since then, but this really shows how hope will cling to anything it can and is really last to die.
@@filippo8189 loving what you wrote. I also have a mental disorder so I understand that feeling of having no way out, but your reflection is what got me the most. Hope really lives on anything and anyone. No conditions. No demands.
I was so expecting, and dreading, a typical cliche boring fight between Dream and Lucifer. but this style of fight literally made my jaw drop, and I’ve been watching it over and over. SO cool! Bravo to the show creators for bringing this to life, so cool!
Some Borne Ultimatum style action lmao
I think they actually improved it over the source (where it was Choronzon vs. Dream). By having Lucifer take part personally, they raised the stakes and made Morpheus winning much more impressive a feat. Also, Lucifer's wounded pride over a *personal* defeat makes their promise to destroy Dream far less petty.
@@mattlemmons6647 yeah it develops Lucifer as a good enemy for next season. I haven’t read the source material so I don’t know how far this war between the dreaming will go but I’m excited
@@alfreddozier832 among hell and rest of the realms*
@@mattlemmons6647 No, this is worse because it says that Morpheus is smarter than Lucifer twice. Outsmarting a demon following by insulting Lucifer is better. It shows that Dream is the most powerful being in hell, which is the whole fucking point. If he beat Lucifer in the game and afterwards it's redundant.
Nothing can kill hope.
Greatest scene ever
Lucifer before his fall was the " light bringer" . A being that brought light and hope to the darkest of places. So when dream asked , what can destroy hope is to ask what can destroy the "light bringer " . Lucifer is proud and remained silent 🤫
Knew Lucifer was an angel prior to his fall from grace but never knew what he did. This info makes this moment so much better
I really love the look of shock on her face as the realization that she lost literally dawns on her. As fine as the acting is, small details like that what make this series so amazing.
Despair destroys hope but I guess that would be too personal an admission. Brilliant scene. This version is way different from the Vertigo Lucifer who really craved freedom above anything. He was generally neutral and hostile as the situation required it and forced no one to do anything other than exterminating people who prayed in the universe he created. I suppose that was harsh. I hoped he and the Presence would finally reconcile but that never happened
@@johannedillworth7413 - I'm not sure that would be a legal move: The embodiment of Despair is one of the Endless, and it is absolutely forbidden for one of the Endless to shed the blood of another. I suspect that an illegal move in such a game would have much greater consequences than "Sorry, pick something else."
@@TechBearSeattle That’s very interesting. Well at least in that concept the Angel has some limitation on its mischief.
Morpheus really pulled a reverse uno card on Lucifer. Hope reminded Lucifer so much of herself, and it was up to her to destroy it. Considering how prideful Lucifer is to admit god was right or to assume god’s role would be too much for Lucifer to bare. The Lord of Dreams went for the Achilles’ tendon, and the Lightbringer had no choice but to yield.
Besides She has little stakes in this fight. She didn’t throw it out of curoisity and some PR
In the comics, Choronzon fought for himself. I guess they changed it in the show to have Morpheus look smarter than Lucifer or to add more suspense? An unnecessary change that takes away a bit of hype from Lucifer, in my opinion.
I think you have it up-side down mate. Lucifer is the most hopeful individual in all of existence, he clings on to the hope that he will be able to break free from his father, its what keeps him going. He knew he was beat the moment Dream named Lucifer's own 2nd greatest weapon
Lucifer is not thinking that gods role would be too much for him, in comics he created his own universe and became a god he just doesent want to be one he wants to have free will
@@Darklarik3 What is his first greatest, then?
All this but despair or doubt can beat hope but hope can also beat these. Once Dream said he is hope that's it Lucifer knew they had lost unless they chose to be stubborn about it and make it a never-ending stalemate where Lucifer keeps countering hope with despair and doubt while Dream constantly just keeps saying he is hope. But what would that achieve? it would mean at best Lucifer could have held out for a draw at best or he could gracefully accept defeat and end the game knowing he couldn't win.
Ive watched this scene a thousand times and damn for thousandth time its still good
Lucifer could have responded to hope by saying, "I am despair..." But that would mean she would accept her fate forever being bound to Hell. Crazy scene.
No it’s the opposite, hope is the answer to defeat despair, not the other way around. Despair is the answer to delight/happiness. You can’t use despair to defeat hope because hope is born and exists within from pain/sufferings/despair/darkness/anti life.
@@matthewjensen524 Except hope cannot be achieved by someone who's already succumbed to despair. Despair means you've lost hope, and nothing can change that except an external shift of circumstance. That requires assistance from an outside source, or divine intervention.
@@bernardsoul5186 you're absolutely right. Even if you're full of hope, if you fall into despair, it will cloud up your judgment and you'll abandon it, unless, of course, there's external help/intervention. Although it is also true that it goes vice-versa, hope being an opposite to despair, Lucifer would rather have this little wound in the ego than winning the duel to the cost of admitting defeat in the greater battle, for saying there's a way to destroy hope, Lucifer would admit that the adversary to be dethroned from heaven was right; hell is where the lightbringer belongs for all eternity, and just can never win.
@@bernardsoul5186 I disagree. If you applied that same logic to anti life/destruction of everything, then hope wouldn’t be the answer either because according to your logic, there is no hope left when there’s nothing left to hope for because it’s total darkness/void of all existence. Clearly hope is what gives strength to all who are in darkness, hope is what drives new creation from the void of emptiness and hope is what gives you the will to endure despair. If that’s not the case, Lucifer wouldn’t accept defeat when Dream countered that without the ability to hope/dream of heaven, hell would lose its power for all those souls in hell who are already in eternal despair no longer serves any purpose.
Despair would be the answer to delight/happiness, it’s what kills happiness, but not hope. Hope by definition is the anti thesis of all that is negative - destruction/despair/anti life/void/emptiness etc..
@@henrique8879 all those souls in hell who are in eternal despair would beg to differ. Hope is what drives them to exist or else hell no longer has any meaning. Hope is the ultimate answer to the void, the anti life, the total darkness of all and certainly hope is what drives you through despair and overcome it as well.
Think of it this way, no matter how much suffering, how much despair, how much pain and how dark it is, if there is a gleam of hope that there is a light at the end of the darkness, if there is a gleam of hope that there is an end to all of the pain/sufferings/despair, then that is enough to drive you forward. Without hope, despair has no meaning.
Hope by definition is born through despair/destruction/anti life/pain and sufferings/darkness, not the other way around.
Gwendolyn Christie was the best person for this role. She nailed that timeless gracefulness and beauty while also being tall and large enough to truly intimidate Morpheus and own the scene, you are never in doubt about who is top dog in her scenes even when Lucifer loses
Because that how angel supposed to be, but not any angel, THE angel, the first fallen, the upper class of angels in the bible Jesus is the first son of God, I think Satan was the second and then all the other angels came to exist. So Lucifer in not a simple fallen angel he's on i think almost Jesus level of power.
i agree with this
Outside of David Bowie, yes she was.
I prefer Tom Ellis.
@@greenpenguin0763 retconning for Jesus?
Well the New Testament is basically a retcon
I think back to this whenever I’m feeling down. Nothing beats hope
Lucifer: I am 5 game losing streak in your favorite videogame.
I love the scale of this fight. From human-sized being to microscopic scale to massive universe and ending with a non-tangible stuff.
Welcome to Vertigo.
I love this series. Never read the comics but it was so refreshing seeing powerfull entity's not just shooting laser beams at each other.
You should read the graphic novels if you get s chance. The show follows the script fairly closely but there are unique elements in the book that are worth encountering and appreciating. It is one of the finest graphic novels ever created. I say created and not written, because the visual aspect of the panels are just as important as the words.
They basically showed us how real gods fight and that's what makes it so beautiful
Lucifer Morningstar in the comics is actually really interesting cool , he is also one of the most powerful character in the dc universe.
@@richardrobinson6488 not to sound negative Richard, but quite literally we have no idea how "real" gods fight lol.
I'm probably aware that you didnt literally mean it 😁😁🤪, but the scary thing is that some will. For those who do ( again probably not you Richard) let me enlighten you; when it comes to things we dont actually know that exist we have no idea how, or what, or basically anything about the subject.
Thats like saying we know what happens after we die. The reality ( the one we all share) is that we have no idea what happens. Same with this subject. Unless any of us has seen a god, angel, demon, etc actually battle we dont know how they would, or that they even exist 🤷♂️🤷♂️
To suggest otherwise is utter insanity. Have a nice day, stay humble lol. 👍✌️
@@giveematug7093 I was speaking within the context of fiction not reality. It's like saying if I were a god and fought someone else who was also a god, that's how I would expect them to fight. In that way it separates them from mere mortals who use martial arts. That's what I meant.
I love how her first move is a direwolf. The family she was chosen to protect.
"Nah ah ...Im that times infiniaty "
Everyone whos seen this scene, fell in love. Its an incredibly unique and NEW way of portraying how Deities would do ‘formal’ battle. Its like sparring, yet the weapons you choose are quite literally epic in proportion. Fun little detail I noticed, when Lucifer says “i am anti-life” and at around 2:50min mark, you can see a silhouette of Lucifer herself engulfing the light of the universe. Its a nice detail which really does emphasise the “I am…” part of their match.
Marvel's Legion also did this kind of battle. Basically every encounter between telepaths in that show is a piece of art. It's either a dance off, a rap battle or a contest of imagination that bends reality and mind to ones will. Highly recomended ;)
It’s like playing dungeons and dragons or a rap battle
its like rock paper scissors. that's what it is.
Do you think people are idiots? 2:50 was meant to be clear enough to be noticed
@@Morcorco i miss Legion already. That episode where they had mind battle with the demon is so creative and epic. So unforgettable. One of the best shows ever.
After the bacteria move, sandman left the offensive game and went to defence. After that move of Lucifer's, every move of Sandman were defensive one. Yet that tactic got him the win. In the comic there is a inner voice bubble of sandman talks about this.
I also feel like you start small to inflict more pain on each other to weaken each other mentally before you move onto the big stuff.
its about faith not Hope.Hope is blind faith. Hope is belief. Faith is knowlege.
@@Iloveyoubabys
Faith and knowledge are completely different. 😅
Just like religion ( faith ) and science ( knowledge ) are, which are based on those 2 concepts.
Like Gabriel once said to Constantine in the 2005 movie: You don't belief .. you know, John!
@@Iloveyoubabys Knowledge is knowledge, faith is hope.
yea i noticed tha without reading the comics...what a gooood show
There is always hope. Even when there is no hope anymore there is hope for new hope. The perfect solution.
yes hope always survives, even if it goes away for a while nobody will be hopeless forever.
This was awesome. She is ferocious.
Gwen is so good. This is one of my favorite scenes in the series. Loved every bits of it. Especially when Dream insulted her with “heaven”. 👏🏼
The longing mixed with disgust on her face when he says it, tho. She’s brilliant in this role.
Yeeeees!!!
Lucifer is a male character in book 📚 though
@@___Anakin.Skywalker false, Lucifer is androgynous in the comics
@@cervicalestorticolis7914 you are wrong.
I was honestly expecting an intense battle scene, but this is waaaay cooler and more impactful
Fighting is for mortals 😜
I was thinking the same thing
It only works because of the skill of the two actors, Christie and Sturridge. This is a master class in acting.
Fighting is just for amateurs for them. 😅
That was a game not a serious fight, in that case Lucifer wins easy.
"I am hope"
"Hoped by who?"
The dream of a better tomorrow cannot exist without the dreamer.
It makes perfect sense for.2 being beyond the physical plane to fight through imagination and ideas.
God, Gwendolyn Christie's performance was so spectacular. I hope to see more of Lucifer in the next season.
You will
Hope lmao
@@truthseeker7815 You have to understand that in Hell the only thing they dream about is the Hope to one day reach heaven. Lucifer may be above The Endless, but not even she can destroy Hope, which is an essential concept for the beings in Hell or else all that would remain is Despair. For more understanding in this matter, you should watch some videos about these characters. None of them are all-powerful only The Presence is.
You see, even Lucifer hopes for something. She hopes to some day destroy god or in DC comic terms The Presence, her/his father. These beings can be whatever/whoever they want.
@@officialnoonon Another thing about Lucifer is that if they can’t kill God, they can at least become truly free. Completely separate from their Father’s grand design and rule. Hope is something even Lucifer believes in. Without hope, they would resign themselves to their Father’s plan. Lucifer can’t defeat something they themselves don’t want to see defeated. Dream really played with them in this show. Hit ‘em right where it hurts.
I think she's good too, but she doesn't fit Lucifer. It's too drastic a change after 6 seasons of Tom Ellis's spectacular performance as both Lucifer and Michael in the show that's loosely based off the comic-book characters. I think Ellis would've been perfect here, combining aspects of his performances of Lucifer and Michael to make the perfect Lucifer for The Sandman.
I love the way they actually fight, using concepts and creations to attack each other instead of the standard fists flying we expect from other media. They are gods, so gods would not fight in the way humans would.
The challenge in the comic is slightly longer....12 steps deep, 3 pages wide.
If you’d know, they aren’t actually mentioning being wolfs, worlds, etc, if you see the picture,Lucifer Is trying to break Dreams Spirit by tormenting with Dreams worst fears or nightmares, Dream is just retaliating with what he can, the anti life equation could be Lucifer telling dream to kill himself or to abandon all hope in life, and Dream responds with hope which brings him back to life because he could erase the suicidal thoughts away after the raven talked to him
This scene is so powerful on many levels 👏 especially the end
I wish I could go back and watch this show for the first time again.
"I am anti-life. The beast of judgement. The dark at the end of everything."
that sent me chills. A visual of what happens should Darkseid find the Anti Life Equation
Oh... it was a reference to that.
Oh wow ty I see that now
Anti life equation he wants it is not kill everyone but to brainwash everyone and manipulate all life but no being can wield equation fully only portion of power the only one who has acess to it completely is death destiny dream etc.
Damn just realized that was a reference to darkseid
Also “hope” could be a reference for Superman (I mean it is a DC based show lol)
The “I am Nova all-exploding planet-cremating” and the I am Anti-Life the Beast Of Judgement, the dark at the end of everything.” Just hit different.
This is definitely how gods should fight. It’s amazing and brilliant. This show is everything
Punchs are for mortals
Imagine someone like Thanos, The Spectre or Dormammu in a fight against either of them. Dream and his siblings of The Endless so, Destiny, Death, Destruction, Desire, Despair, Delirium are literally the concepts they personify as well as for the most part their opposites: Destiny = destiny & change, Death = life & death, Destruction = creation & destruction, Desire = fullfillment & desire, Despair = despair & dread, Delirium = sanity & delirium who is furthermore said to know things not even the oldest, Destiny, knows. While Destiny knows everything there is to know aside from Lucifer, Michael and The Presence I presume, Delirium knows everything outside of this range, which drove her insane in a way since she used to be called Delight instead of Delirium.
@@officialnoonon *imagining Legion have (psychic) battle with one of the endless*
@@run_sun he'd get roflstomped since he is no where near that peking order. In fact Dream can just make him enter a coma forever by wiping away his dreams and imaginations. In a way Dream is already Legion and has no difficulty in controlling infinite numbers of his own aspects imagined or not.
Compared to this, Thanos and other stuff like that seems so incredibly stupid and weak
What’s profound is that each form they take is inflicted on the other. It isn’t that there are no concepts that defeat hope, it’s that Lucifer was filled with hope and could not bare to crush it
I love that they use epithets/kennings to emphasise their choices. It gives it the extra mythological twist given their use in both Greek and Norse mythology. Gaiman is hard to beat in the realm of stories about stories.
Kennings! That's the word I couldn't recall. I adore the solemn and evocative note they add to the duel of concepts.
Yess. Lucifer gave the most emphasis as she said she's a "Nova" because in Gaiman's Sandman, Lucifer is God's "Lamp Lighter" which just means Lucifer creating and destroying stars.
When this battle started with them taking the forms of animals and mythical creatures, I thought it would lead to dragons, Giants, maybe greater daemons.
When Dream uttered he was a whole frickin universe to beat a measly meteor, I thought he won because only an endless should be able to take such epic forms.
Then the devil became the DC anti-life itself and I was floored.
great show.
Not a meteor, a nova. It’s a massive explosion made by a dying star.
I figured the counter to that would've been entropy, but that worked too
Well it is in the same universe and I always wondered if it was a reference to that
I am Jaime. Cersei-loving, King-slayer
I don't think that's how it works - what they say they 'are' in the game has nothing to do with the amount of power they have to 'embody' anything. It's a game of imagination. For every creature or concept one player thinks of, the other player has to be able to find a different creature or concept that can either kill it or just not be threatened by it. A wolf gets killed by a hunter gets killed by a snake gets killed by a bird of prey gets killed by a virus - at this stage of the fight, both of them are trying to kill each other. Then Morpheus switches tactics - he says he's a world because a virus is just something that a world contains but that can't harm the world. And Lucifer is still trying to kill, with a nova. So Morpheus is a universe - again, universes contain thousands of novae and are just not harmed by them. The step of 'anti-life' I guess has to be interpreted as not just killing all life (a universe would be perfectly fine without living creatures in it) but also everything that can metaphorically be said to have life - including stars, which can 'die'. And hope is the ultimate trump card for various reasons that have been sxplained here already (some of them specific to Lucifer, but in the original comics, Lucifer wasn't the one having this fight with Morpheus), but I believe most of it is that there will be creatures who will cling to hope in the face of anything (for reference, Morpheus's own line: What power would hell have if those imprisoned here would not be able to dream of heaven?")
Lucifer: "I am Anti-Life."
Darseid: *Pokes head from behind his shower's curtain*
this sow so good we need season 2
I’ve never watched a turn-based battle in television before. This is beautifully creative, new, and refreshing!
Legion did it a while back. Another great fight of the minds
If you are into anime, no game no life had a battle very similar to this
@@niloxneloxIn anime they always do the lazy way of "telling instead of showing" specially during fight scenes so symbolical battle scenes like these are rendered pointless
The queen Gambit is a turn based😂
So you haven't watched Yugioh
People forget that Lucifer is literally the second most powerful character in all of the DC universe, -second only to batman with prep time- , so Dream winning this fight out of pure wit and intelligence really shows just how powerful he also is
I mean, it’s literally battle of imagination. They were battling on his ground lol
Lucifer outright threatens to kill Death at one point, and she doesn't deny he's capable, only that it would be pointless.
That's funny cause Lucifer is also known for is intellegence and brains in the comics
Lucifer is boy or girl?
So dream can beat batman
This fight scene along with the Behind Blue Eyes scene from Legion is some of the best representation of how beings this power would fight. Not punching and shooting laser beams
My favourite scene! ❤❤❤
i love how both characters emanate so much power, not through flames, noises or smokes, but through the battle of words, wisdom, and wit. the lines were wonderfully written and i love how the tension rises with every exchange of turns. my favorite scene, no doubt. for me, tom sturridge and gwendoline christie were perfect for their roles and gave justice to this scene.