Good video .had to ho from Phoenix to Ventura to pick up a step daughter and her car . Shop in Ventura quoted 950 and was going to change the coil packs plugs and wires . And then see what’s up . I said no way. We went on a surf trip snatched her up and came home . ChAnged 1 coil pack and ignition module . Still no start . Then I checked fused but missed the ING fuse for the module pink wire . I was looking at the Crank sensor when I looked at your vid and went back to the Fuse . And bingo I find them fuse blown . Replaced it . Turned key . Car fired … 350 with new battery .
Another thing that gives the same symptoms, is if you have antifreeze from a leaky water pump get by the crank sensor wire connector. It will short out the signal to the ICM and stop the spark and injectors and give no codes. Cleaning the connector and sensor with WD40 will make it work again.
I replaced the water pump & elbows on my 3800 now it won't start. Now that I think of it I sure did spill coolant all over the sensor & connector. I'll go clean off the connectors 👍
@@paulsosa1872 I'm working on a 2004 Chevy Impala SS. One of the elbows blew. After I replaced them I started the engine to check for leaks. After about 15 mins of running the engine started popping and shut off. I had no spark. I'll try your idea. I was thinking that the cranks sensor may have failed.
Great information. I have an O6 that has had an intermittent can no start that everytime I try to diagnose seems to want to start. Today I was able to figure out there was no spark but then it started. I suspected crank sensor. Now im ready for the next time it fails to start.
Good Video!! What a headache...I have a 2006 Lacrosse 3.8 doing the same thing... sometimes it starts and some days it just cranks and no start but no codes. I've checked everything except the crank sensor. I saw a video of a guy who said he had the same issue and had to clean the ground leads that attach tho the front of the transmission and that solved his problem. At this point Im willing to try and replace the CPS and clean the grounds.
If you don't have any graphing meter or lab scope especially when the problem is intermittent you have to try something. I'd clean those grounds first though. It's a bit of a challenge to replace the sensor as the crank pulley needs to be pulled off. Good luck
At 111+ ft lbs how did you keep the engine from turning while tightening the bolt? I just used an impact wrench after replacing my crank sensor but still crank no start. And where did you get all those schematics? And what kind of diagnostic tool did you use? Also replaced cam sensor and still crank no start. Car ran fine for the eight years I owned it until it stopped running just when I drove into my driveway. Replaced ICM last year and all 3 coils the year before. I'm stumped.
I have a home made holding fixture thar goes in the three balancer holes. Its 111ft lbs plus 70degrees. What are you missing? Spark, fuel injector pulse, both? Does the MIL turn on with the key? Does the fuel pump initially run for a prime when the key is turned on? Check your power and ground to the ignition control module. I'm using a Snap-on Verus Edge tablet and information system from Alldatadiy.com
Great video! I have a strange problem: the crank sensor's signal wires show 1.76 and 0.68 Volts when the key is On position.0 Does not make signal or react to anything. I tried 3 sensors, all do the same. What could cause this? Gets power, ICM is good, I tried a new ICM too. Also when the connector is to the sensor is not plugged in, the signal wires read 5 V both.
The signal wires should read 5 volts on both key on sensor unplugged. The sensor pulls this voltage down to ground when there's metal between the sensor and magnet. The other two wires are power from the ICM and ground through the ICM. Pin C at the sensor is ground and pin D is 12v power from the ICM. Plug the sensor back in and turn the key on. Measure the voltage on pin D by back pinning. Should be 12volts. Measure voltage on pin c back pinning should be less than 0.2volts. If its not near 0 volts check the ground pin K at the ICM the same way. Pin K at the ICM goes to G112. If pin K is not grounded temporarily ground it a see if it starts. G112 is on one of the studs that holds the module/coil pack to the head. Hope this helps you.
So how do you charge for that? I am sure that no matter what you told the customer they would say it is your fault that it happened when you did brake line repairs. Oh and nice diag.
I charged him for the diagnosis and repair. He is a good customer and I just explained it was coincidence that it failed here. He did admit to the vehicle not starting on two other occasions in the past year. He said he disconnected the battery and reconnected it and it started so he assumed it was security related. Its all good.
Nice video, I have almost the same issue happening. I have 12 volts to the icm on the pink wire. I’m not getting the 12 volt reference out of the icm to the crank and cam sensors on the wt/blk wire N. I checked the crank sensor 1 and 2 the both were giving me pulses. I changed the icm and still do not have the reference voltage. I’m at a loss, I thought for sure the new icm would fix the issue. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks
@@musguire99 if you have ignition power to the icm and a good ground but no output voltage to the crank or cam sensors one may be shorting it out. Try unplugging both and Retesting for your 12 volt power supply. You said you were getting pulses from the sensors?? How is that possible without your power to them.
could be jumped timing chain, contaminated fuel or you are missing something. remove all the plug wires and make sure the spark jumps between the towers and fire consistently.
@PhillipBailey I would have no compression if timing jumped, correct? All cylinders tested around 150psi. Could ignition timing be off enough to not run but still back fire while still having compression? I would assume compression would be low.
@DWR438 I had one where the balancer bolt came loose and the crank key sheared so ignition timing was off. Lab scope of in cylinder pressure synced with secondary ignition would show that. All scanner readings in range? Temperatures, Barometric pressure and MAF
I have an 05 lacrosse 3800. Had a stall and crank but no start afterward. Got p1516 code and searches and hunches led me to replace the crank sensor. Still wouldn't start. I poked around the connectors to make sure nothing was jostled and then it started up and ran until the habitual "check gas cap" message came up and it died simultaneously. I'll be replacing the cap and EVAP valves today and if it still doesn't start and run normally, I'm thinking it's the computer.
You need to figure out what's missing when it stalls and won't restart. the Evap codes won't cause this in my opinion. the P1516 code is a throttle body error code. disagreement of the two TPS sensors. could be a bad ground. 1. Check and clean ground G113 which is on the transaxle to engine mounting bolt near the starter. 2. Check for low voltage on the ETC and PCM fuses while in run and crank at the time the code sets. Use a Digital Volt Ohm Meter (DVOM) with a MIN/MAX feature.
@@PhillipBailey the 1516 was a one time appearance that led to the crank sensor. It's a 193k car and I don't have a Carfax for it. If I can locate a meter I'll try that. This began Friday while delivering pizza, near the end of the night I was running hard and had to avoid a cauldron pothole on a little gravel road at the edge of town. I skirted the lip and got a fun back end rumble due to the rear struts being the former priority I was grinding toward before this stall issue cropped up. Such is the life. After the crank sensor replacement it still wouldn't start but then it did once and it threw the p0455 code and wouldn't start again. I am aware that the pedal and throttle sensors also tend to go out but the pedal and throttle both respond with the key on at this time.
@@The_Kiosk well as i said the evap code should not cause a no start condition nor stall. you need to see what's missing during the no start, spark, fuel pressure, injector pulse but id still confirm those grounds on the bellhousing and below the ignition module if my memory serves me correctly.
@@PhillipBailey I'll check those spots. The ignition module being jostled is a possibility. But like I said it did start and run to idle once yesterday before dying and throwing the p0455 and not starting again. My guess was incomplete vacuum in the intake during start if both solenoids were open. I had that precise issue in my ex wife's avalanche years ago and it was the front EVAP. In this case I also have a hot fender well where the rear EVAP canister sits due to either a bad hose or bad caliper. As I'm not an electrical engineer and am marooned miles from town and have no electrical testing equipment on hand, these hunches are where I must go first. I'll check for bad connections at the bell housing and under the Ignition module since it was related to a vibration. My line of reasoning is that gremlins have to be chased because one repair jostles something else, and in a full car vibration the gremlins can get shaken loose. All these things may have been on the verge for some time and if I work from more expensive to less expensive repairs it will still end up requiring all these other things be replaced. I've had cars do this before but had a second set of hands and spare vehicles to go get the things I need. I do appreciate the advice and apologize if I come across as contrarian.
@@PhillipBailey so I just came out to try the ignition and check those grounds. There sounds like a low hum of either a cooling fan or a bad ground sound from the little speaker or whatever by the key ignition switch. The fuel gauge has audible motor sound as it comes online. I've never noticed that, so does that perhaps indicate a bad ground as well or could a low battery from trying to turn it do that?
@estherlerma7851 Snap-on has mobile tool trucks in most areas. As far as I know they don't sell online buy you can just Google Snap-on tools in Canada or USA respectively.
That would be relevant if the engine ran but had a misfire. In this case there was no spark on any coil. Could be crank sensor, ignition control module or wiring to the module.
@@PhillipBailey you're right. But it would tell you if you had spark atleast. I currently have a 2007 buick lacrosse 3.8 that stalled out on the highway. It cranks but no start. I'm going straight for the crankshaft position sensor. But it's hard to get to.
@@zackjacobs3337 Do what? Pull the balancer off? If that's what you are asking remove the drive belt, the crankshaft bolt and then you will need a puller to remove the balancer as it is slightly pressed onto the nose of the crankshaft.
Good video .had to ho from Phoenix to Ventura to pick up a step daughter and her car . Shop in Ventura quoted 950 and was going to change the coil packs plugs and wires . And then see what’s up . I said no way. We went on a surf trip snatched her up and came home . ChAnged 1 coil pack and ignition module . Still no start . Then I checked fused but missed the ING fuse for the module pink wire . I was looking at the Crank sensor when I looked at your vid and went back to the Fuse . And bingo I find them fuse blown . Replaced it . Turned key . Car fired … 350 with new battery .
Another thing that gives the same symptoms, is if you have antifreeze from a leaky water pump get by the crank sensor wire connector. It will short out the signal to the ICM and stop the spark and injectors and give no codes. Cleaning the connector and sensor with WD40 will make it work again.
There was no coolant leak on this but thanks for the heads-up.
I replaced the water pump & elbows on my 3800 now it won't start. Now that I think of it I sure did spill coolant all over the sensor & connector. I'll go clean off the connectors 👍
@@paulsosa1872 I'm working on a 2004 Chevy Impala SS. One of the elbows blew. After I replaced them I started the engine to check for leaks. After about 15 mins of running the engine started popping and shut off. I had no spark. I'll try your idea. I was thinking that the cranks sensor may have failed.
Traverse
Clran cone tors
Great information. I have an O6 that has had an intermittent can no start that everytime I try to diagnose seems to want to start. Today I was able to figure out there was no spark but then it started. I suspected crank sensor. Now im ready for the next time it fails to start.
Yes intermittent problems are always a challenge. Good luck.
Excellent Instructional Video!!!
Good Video!! What a headache...I have a 2006 Lacrosse 3.8 doing the same thing... sometimes it starts and some days it just cranks and no start but no codes. I've checked everything except the crank sensor. I saw a video of a guy who said he had the same issue and had to clean the ground leads that attach tho the front of the transmission and that solved his problem. At this point Im willing to try and replace the CPS and clean the grounds.
If you don't have any graphing meter or lab scope especially when the problem is intermittent you have to try something. I'd clean those grounds first though. It's a bit of a challenge to replace the sensor as the crank pulley needs to be pulled off. Good luck
It is the crankshaft position sensor.
At 111+ ft lbs how did you keep the engine from turning while tightening the bolt? I just used an impact wrench after replacing my crank sensor but still crank no start. And where did you get all those schematics? And what kind of diagnostic tool did you use? Also replaced cam sensor and still crank no start. Car ran fine for the eight years I owned it until it stopped running just when I drove into my driveway. Replaced ICM last year and all 3 coils the year before. I'm stumped.
I have a home made holding fixture thar goes in the three balancer holes. Its 111ft lbs plus 70degrees. What are you missing? Spark, fuel injector pulse, both? Does the MIL turn on with the key? Does the fuel pump initially run for a prime when the key is turned on? Check your power and ground to the ignition control module. I'm using a Snap-on Verus Edge tablet and information system from Alldatadiy.com
Great video! I have a strange problem: the crank sensor's signal wires show 1.76 and 0.68 Volts when the key is On position.0 Does not make signal or react to anything. I tried 3 sensors, all do the same. What could cause this? Gets power, ICM is good, I tried a new ICM too. Also when the connector is to the sensor is not plugged in, the signal wires read 5 V both.
The signal wires should read 5 volts on both key on sensor unplugged. The sensor pulls this voltage down to ground when there's metal between the sensor and magnet. The other two wires are power from the ICM and ground through the ICM. Pin C at the sensor is ground and pin D is 12v power from the ICM. Plug the sensor back in and turn the key on. Measure the voltage on pin D by back pinning. Should be 12volts. Measure voltage on pin c back pinning should be less than 0.2volts. If its not near 0 volts check the ground pin K at the ICM the same way. Pin K at the ICM goes to G112. If pin K is not grounded temporarily ground it a see if it starts. G112 is on one of the studs that holds the module/coil pack to the head. Hope this helps you.
So how do you charge for that? I am sure that no matter what you told the customer they would say it is your fault that it happened when you did brake line repairs. Oh and nice diag.
I charged him for the diagnosis and repair. He is a good customer and I just explained it was coincidence that it failed here. He did admit to the vehicle not starting on two other occasions in the past year. He said he disconnected the battery and reconnected it and it started so he assumed it was security related. Its all good.
I have to admit I was sure it was something I disturbed...
On live data were you getting rpms? Having the same issue but i have rpm signal on live data on my scanner
At 1:00 in the video no cam signal and no RPM. In your case check for spark and injector pulse then fuel pressure
Nice video, I have almost the same issue happening. I have 12 volts to the icm on the pink wire. I’m not getting the 12 volt reference out of the icm to the crank and cam sensors on the wt/blk wire N. I checked the crank sensor 1 and 2 the both were giving me pulses. I changed the icm and still do not have the reference voltage. I’m at a loss, I thought for sure the new icm would fix the issue. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks
Check the ICM ground. It's under the bracket the ICM bolts to.
Ground was good
@@musguire99 if you have ignition power to the icm and a good ground but no output voltage to the crank or cam sensors one may be shorting it out. Try unplugging both and Retesting for your 12 volt power supply. You said you were getting pulses from the sensors?? How is that possible without your power to them.
Same problem. Fuel compression spark. No codes. Back fires occasionally But it will not start.
could be jumped timing chain, contaminated fuel or you are missing something. remove all the plug wires and make sure the spark jumps between the towers and fire consistently.
@PhillipBailey I would have no compression if timing jumped, correct? All cylinders tested around 150psi. Could ignition timing be off enough to not run but still back fire while still having compression? I would assume compression would be low.
@DWR438 I had one where the balancer bolt came loose and the crank key sheared so ignition timing was off. Lab scope of in cylinder pressure synced with secondary ignition would show that. All scanner readings in range? Temperatures, Barometric pressure and MAF
@PhillipBailey thank you for your in input. I'll lyk what I find put.
I have an 05 lacrosse 3800. Had a stall and crank but no start afterward. Got p1516 code and searches and hunches led me to replace the crank sensor. Still wouldn't start. I poked around the connectors to make sure nothing was jostled and then it started up and ran until the habitual "check gas cap" message came up and it died simultaneously. I'll be replacing the cap and EVAP valves today and if it still doesn't start and run normally, I'm thinking it's the computer.
You need to figure out what's missing when it stalls and won't restart. the Evap codes won't cause this in my opinion. the P1516 code is a throttle body error code. disagreement of the two TPS sensors. could be a bad ground. 1. Check and clean ground G113 which is on the transaxle to engine mounting bolt near the starter.
2. Check for low voltage on the ETC and PCM fuses while in run and crank at the time the code sets. Use a Digital Volt Ohm Meter (DVOM) with a MIN/MAX feature.
@@PhillipBailey the 1516 was a one time appearance that led to the crank sensor. It's a 193k car and I don't have a Carfax for it. If I can locate a meter I'll try that. This began Friday while delivering pizza, near the end of the night I was running hard and had to avoid a cauldron pothole on a little gravel road at the edge of town. I skirted the lip and got a fun back end rumble due to the rear struts being the former priority I was grinding toward before this stall issue cropped up. Such is the life. After the crank sensor replacement it still wouldn't start but then it did once and it threw the p0455 code and wouldn't start again. I am aware that the pedal and throttle sensors also tend to go out but the pedal and throttle both respond with the key on at this time.
@@The_Kiosk well as i said the evap code should not cause a no start condition nor stall. you need to see what's missing during the no start, spark, fuel pressure, injector pulse but id still confirm those grounds on the bellhousing and below the ignition module if my memory serves me correctly.
@@PhillipBailey I'll check those spots. The ignition module being jostled is a possibility. But like I said it did start and run to idle once yesterday before dying and throwing the p0455 and not starting again. My guess was incomplete vacuum in the intake during start if both solenoids were open. I had that precise issue in my ex wife's avalanche years ago and it was the front EVAP. In this case I also have a hot fender well where the rear EVAP canister sits due to either a bad hose or bad caliper. As I'm not an electrical engineer and am marooned miles from town and have no electrical testing equipment on hand, these hunches are where I must go first. I'll check for bad connections at the bell housing and under the Ignition module since it was related to a vibration. My line of reasoning is that gremlins have to be chased because one repair jostles something else, and in a full car vibration the gremlins can get shaken loose. All these things may have been on the verge for some time and if I work from more expensive to less expensive repairs it will still end up requiring all these other things be replaced. I've had cars do this before but had a second set of hands and spare vehicles to go get the things I need. I do appreciate the advice and apologize if I come across as contrarian.
@@PhillipBailey so I just came out to try the ignition and check those grounds. There sounds like a low hum of either a cooling fan or a bad ground sound from the little speaker or whatever by the key ignition switch. The fuel gauge has audible motor sound as it comes online. I've never noticed that, so does that perhaps indicate a bad ground as well or could a low battery from trying to turn it do that?
Same issue on the 2007 buick lacrosse 3.8
I have this problem but i have spark, still brokedown
Check fuel pressure and injector pulse.
What was it called when you searched it up I've tried lower crankshaft position connector no luck
I'm not sure what you're asking. I replaced the crank position sensor on this vehicle.
Awesome video.
how much would you charge for this job
Took me about 2.5hrs for diagnosis and replacement. Had difficulty removing the sensor.
Do you have a link where I can buy that snap on scanner? Thanks
@estherlerma7851 Snap-on has mobile tool trucks in most areas. As far as I know they don't sell online buy you can just Google Snap-on tools in Canada or USA respectively.
@@PhillipBailey thank you
NEXT TIME, DISCONNECT THE WIRES FROM IGNITION COIL AND CRANK IT. THAT WILL SHOW YOU WHERE THE FAILURE IS, IF THERE IS NO SPARK IN ONE.
That would be relevant if the engine ran but had a misfire. In this case there was no spark on any coil. Could be crank sensor, ignition control module or wiring to the module.
@@PhillipBailey you're right. But it would tell you if you had spark atleast. I currently have a 2007 buick lacrosse 3.8 that stalled out on the highway. It cranks but no start. I'm going straight for the crankshaft position sensor. But it's hard to get to.
@@supernintendo7579 yes it requires the balancer be pulled off. I'd test power and ground to the module first though.
@@PhillipBailey how do I do that
@@zackjacobs3337 Do what? Pull the balancer off? If that's what you are asking remove the drive belt, the crankshaft bolt and then you will need a puller to remove the balancer as it is slightly pressed onto the nose of the crankshaft.