The chronicon was literally just 2 psions writting in a room for a few weeks making up the most batshit stuff they could and laughing at Calus doing it
I also like the fact that if you listen to the untranslated whispers it sounds alot like Psion language. If you put it next to Kargen's or the Flayer' sisters dialogue you'll hear it.
My theory is that he was once a psion himself actually. That or he gave them through darkness powers their psionic abilities. It matches up nicely with everything of darkness being mind related
@@atsukana1704 ogres if I recall are torment/experimentation on thrall with hive magic so nezerac could’ve been the apex of psions and the witness reached out to him giving power and a new form a shape if you will. Heck the tormentors could be shadow legion psions that have been experimented on and turned into what we have as tormentors, it could explain the connection with void between the 2 enemies psions have the void blast/melee add some darkness powers and now we have a tormentor with crazy void abilities
@@atsukana1704 Might not be a great piece of evidence, but the leaked post raid cutscene presumably shows Nezarec’s hand, which has 4 fingers. Psions have 5 fingers, so the anatomy doesn’t perfectly match up if he is one.
Lovecraft's mythos fit perfectly into the lore of Destiny. I hope Nezarek will get his development not in a raid, where maybe we will help him (?), but in one of the seasons. And I also hope that the Bungs will take something from the images of Azathoth and Yog-Sathoth to describe his powers)
Could all of the Disciples have analogues to Mythos beings? I could see Calus as being a (very, _very_ simplified) take on Hastur, with his love of gold and such. I'll be the first to admit that I'm more of an orbital enjoyer of Lovecratian stuff as far as knowledge goes, though I do really enjoy what I know, and it'd be interesting to see if there's more connections that can be made to the known Disciples.
Nyarlethotep might've been (and probably was) inspired by Lovecraft's interest in Egyptian and Sumerian mythology. He puts me in the minds of deities like Nergal, Ershkingal, Anubis, Set, and Kek. Mostly Kek and Nergal (both were gods of chaos and discord). The tormentors and psions both remind me of the various jackal-headed creatures from the Egyptian mythos in physical form.
Isn’t it odd that Nezarec’s Sin looks like a Psion’s helmet? If that is what Nezarec’s head looks like, it could explain where Psions got the inspiration for their helmets.
I also noticed this. I used to think Psions were just the Cabal's bitches who had to drive Interceptors for me to steal on patrol. D1 naivite was a wonderful thing.
As someone who has been interested in Nezerac ever since getting Nezerac’s sin as my first piece of exotic armor back when I first started playing in season of the chosen, I’ve been absolutely ecstatic to learn all of this information and have him start to reveal himself
Byf there’s a new Jisu Calerondo line where he says scientists and guardians aren’t sure whether or not the traveler is still alive, I have screen caps if you haven’t seen it yet
Hmm. ain't run into it but I'm not sure. Maybe the conduit of the Light is still running through the traveler to us, but the Mind, the Sapience of the Traveler is gone? What are Ghosts and their Guardians saying and feeling?
Has anyone else gone back to look at Malok? A claimant to the Osmium Throne and command of the Taken, who we slew following Oryx's death in the Chantry of Oryx on the moon. We speculated that Malok was under someone's control because his 'free will' despite being Taken and somehow had command over them. It was not soemthing we could explain. It was also with him Savathun entered our speculation regarding the Hive in our system, given Malok's beginnings, really for the first time. However, with new information such as Savathun being present at the collapse, and Nezarec being an important player there too, perhaps it is time for us to retread old ground in search of Nezarec's influence? We know that Nezarec can command the Taken as well as his 'Nightmares'. Perhaps Malok was commanded in some way by Nezarec?
Entry VIII is terrifying. If Nezarec is potentially still out there, then it's plausible there's more like him I'd think. Especially if the Psions talked about dominant overlord(s). Are these beings what comes AFTER Final Shape?
The story Mithrax tells sounds very similar to the story told in the new Warlock Strand exotic. Of the Vex Mind, Aesop. A being that comes to instil dominion and fear. Apparently Aesop wiped out a ton of the Neomuni when they said no to it's subjugation. It then left them with a promise of returning to destroy them all. This promise left a deep fear in the people and inspired their tight security.
Nezarec says something to the effect of feeding on the fear and pain in the darkness here "again." Thinking about that line brings me to a few different ideas. A: He's just talking about how he's sorta been asleep for forever and all this pain is finally waking him up and he's excited to get to feed again. B: He's talking about humanity generally since we obviously have record of his involvement in our culture pre-golden age. C: He's talking about the Psions here in Neomuna, since there are other lines of dialogue showing he wants to subjugate them again. D: He's tasted the fear and pain of the Neomuni before. If he and Aesop are the same (which, Aesop is not only a weird name for a Vex but also acts nothing like a Vex in the story) then it would make a lot of sense
@@Danxerz358Aesop is also the fictitious author (but a real historian) of Aesop’s Fables, which is a collection of children’s stories that often tried to tell moral lessons to the reader. I know this is somewhat of a stretch, but it’s not unalike what religions focus on (teaching moral values), and so one could draw a connection to Nezarec there, perhaps.
It's interesting that of the two previous disciples of the Witness, both of them have had a hand in shaping some of the enemies we face. Rhulk with the Hive, and possibly Nezarec with the Psions.
Interesting thing to consider. In one of the pre lightfall seasons, defiance I believe, we learned that the cabal used psions to probe the minds of captured hive for informations, and it was made clear this process put the hive in a state of extreme agony with no release for death. If that’s their best method of info gathering then it likely gained some form of inspiration due to nezerac.
I distinctly remember Zavala, Saladin and caiatl saying the mind probing didn’t hurt them because they’re sorta brain dead. There was a lore tab that commented on the psion Optus responsible for the mind probing being apprehensive towards probing unwilling minds even if they were hive. I’m thinking, nezerec released the tormentors onto the psions (lore tab somewhere states psion culture was briefly dominated by painful minds that did nothing but inflict pain on their psionic hive mind ) to weaken them so they can’t resist the cabals slavery, eventually having them pressed into service of the witness
The Tormentors must have originated from Nezerac in some way. Many of them have his name in their titles, and.. well they're literally called Tormentors. Nezerac is a god of torment and pain. Chances are we're gonna see a lot of Tormentors in the raid, and Nezerac himself could look a lot like one.
I don't think Nezarec is just inspired by Nyraletotep I feel the inspiration followed the origins of the Lovecarftian god back to Egypt and has taken pieces of the god Set's characterization and been given to Nezarec as well as Set is a god of storms, violence, and disorder (among a couple other things but im just listing the more relevant bits) there is also a pretty interesting parallel to Nezarec's dimemberment and the story of how Osiris became the god of the dead. We can also make Nezarec refrence as a betrayer make little sense too (if it is true) as in some tellings of Ra's passage through the underworld when he is attacked by Apep (or Apophis) it is Set (either disguised as Horus or not) which is kinda inresting as Set is a god of chaos but so is Apep the diffrence being Apep wants the end of the universe now going back to Nezarec and the Witness, Nezarec wants chaos while the Witness wants to cull the universe to a massive degree its not an exact parallel but it is pretty similar.
THIS HELPED PIECE SOMETHING SO IMPORTANT TOGETHER! So… In the Season of Arrivals, at the tree of silver wings, Eris talks about an ally of ours who walks in the darkness. Specifically one who travels among the black fleet, i’d thought for some time that it had to be whatever entity resided within the lunar pyramid, and the dark reflection of ourselves that we met during Shadowkeep acted with so much more emotion than we see in the Witness. (perhaps the way characters are written change with time, so this is more synchronized than it is correlated, but it isn’t the only thing to suggest this) We believe that Nezarec had a part to play in the salvation of humanity during the collapse. A collaboration, if you will, between He and Savathun to hide the Veil, and in so doing prevent the Witness from doing whatever it is we saw it do at the end of the Lightfall campaign. But **why?** If the serves the Witness, and can revel in suffering through his actions as a Disciple, **why** betray it? The reasonable answer to me seems to be that this Hunger in the Darkness that *is* Nezarec, does not pursue the Final Shape. The Witness talks of the Final Shape as an “end to suffering”, something that is in direct contradiction to what sustains this outer god of misery. Don’t get me wrong, that does not make Nezarec our *friend.* But it does pose a feasible solution to the question “where does his title ‘traitor’ come from. I’d think that such a creature does not see the universe the same way we do, nor Calus, nor the Hive Gods. but I digress; my point is that this revelation seems to show why Nezarec could be both a tool to and an enemy of the Witness while also not being as friendly as our usual seasonal NPC :P, thank you for coming to my rant
I am actually wondering if Nezarec is from the Psion race but was like the apex of their people at the time. Edit: Thinking about how active he is in Neomuna makes me think he will not be in the raid itself as thats most likely going to be on earth if I had to guess. I think he will be involved in the dungeon that will most likely be on Neptune.
@@doogster911 with it looking like the raid is in that blown up shop idk how nezerac could be a boss. His physical body is chopped up and his mind appears to be in the vex network or maybe he got trapped in the network and recovered from being chopped up idk. There’s a lack of explanation from A to B
I think it's worth drawing a link between Eris' dialogue from TTK and Nezarec's dialogue here. "Fingers on the surface of my mind!" Eris, TTK "Impressionable minds at my proverbial fingertips." Nezarec, Beyond Light It seems a little on the the nose to just be a turn of phrase.
I think the connection to Nyarlathotep goes even further, you mentioned that Nyarlathotep would disguise himself as a pharaoh, and two things immediately came to mind. Nezarec's appearance in the Season of Plunder cutscene (he seemed to be wrapped in bandages similar to how the egyptians would bury their dead, and the relics from season of Plunder, that remind me a lot of the jars holding the organs of the dead. Just figured i'd put this out there lol
To know the Neomuni aren’t safe in the digital world of the Vexnet, let alone the physical world, is pretty terrifying. It’s like Nezarec is the personification of fear.
So, crazy thought. I decided to go back and listen to old lore related to the darkness and came back across Egregor (one of Myleins) and he played a clip of Calus describing Egregor as feeding/connecting to beings about to die, specifically the Terror before it. Shot in the dark, Egregor is a creation of Nezarecs
@@aaronlaughter6471 That was my guess. If there is a universe after this one it means the witness failed. What major villain with that much of a sphere of influence exists and still wants the universe to exist? None other than Nezarec.
@@Shapes_Quality_Control i beg to differ i think the vex would be the main antagonists after the light and dark saga, there is still so much we dont know about them especially their home world, and honestly considering they can go thru the multiverse just like the witness and the traveler makes em a scary oponent
I think the new exotic glaive, Vexcalibur, translates Nezarec’s whispers. I was using it earlier and I could understand what he was saying, and I didn’t have any of the other equipment on that’s confirmed to translate his whispers.
It’s funny I was having this same conversation likening him to that of lovecraft entities, particularly cuthulu though this one brought up seems more to his liking. What we did relate to that of cuthulu is from the text on Nezerecs sin helmet, where it describes him to be so wicked and divine yet also portrays a note worthy quality to him that he will never cower and fall and that what he offers is not as seemingly bad as what we initially think. To this it clicked in our heads that like cuthulu, while most portray him to be wicked and evil and his frightening abilities portray this to us and manipulation… in reality he is a primordial being, existing beyond our understanding and along with the universe, they are essential and they do not fit the narrative of being “evil” they just “are”. I believe this is the same for nazerec and why the text has written him as such and why he has or will betray the witness. The universe is essential to him to sustain life and he is in a way essential as well . A being tied to it, he would not let the witness bring an end to it.
I have a theory, what if Nezerec only exists within the vex net because he accessed it through vex minds? And the vex's backdoor to the cloud ark allowed him to access the Neomuni because they uploaded themselves to evade the shadow legion? He says he needs power, and what if he's gaining this power through the terror that he's able to inflict upon the Neomuni, as well as the pain we are causing. That recontextualizes his speaking with us as a cruel taunt, hinting at what he's doing because there's nothing we can do to stop it, we can't stop killing the Shadow legion, and we can't pull the Neomuni back into the physical world without putting them in danger. In short: it's already checkmate for his return, and there's nothing we can do but help him achieve it.
Byf If you see this I would like to ask you a question, in the new exotic quest for the vexcaliber it begins on earth where it seems that there is vex activity, that’s not normal right? Like we’ve had vex on earth before with the endless night simulation in the last city but that was created by Savathun using Quria who also helped her control the vex so to my knowledge we haven’t actually see proper uninfluenced vex on earth, so unless there is someone else influencing the vex that we don’t know about, could this mean that with the absence of the traveler that the vex might be starting to plan a full scale invasion of earth?
That Vex activity was the opening of the node that Asher had opened the gate on the network’s side, and fed us the access code to see the well of the gateway that was woven for us
@@cj-3810 yeah now that the lore daddy has blessed us with his knowledge in the latest video and now that I’ve actually played the quest I can see that, but I’m still kinda disappointed it’s not what I thought because I really want the vex to be a major antagonist again because they’re my favourite race and they haven’t really been the focal point of anything since the curse of Osiris like yeah they shown up hear and there in other seasons and expansions but always as a side threat not the main villains which is want I them to be.
@@Jpow5734 I think they’ve been really roping into the vex a lot more, with us getting more and more glimpses into the internal vex network… Maybe Asher will act as our guide into the digital depths on a later date… Considering the light and dark saga is coming to a close and they keep showing up glimpses of the Vex who have continuously been shown to be free agents and yet ever powerful, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did become a major antagonist again
Even with the fact that the new largest area in D2 is a pristine golden-age Ishtar Collective city, the major Vex offensive that’s been going on there for god knows how long, there’s so much that we’ve yet to even skim as to what the archives offer us.
I think Nezarec is considered a betrayer because he betrayed the witness by not wanting the universe to end. I say this because he indulges in the suffering and terror of others, but the witness has always been about wanting to end the suffering of the universe, and that's its whole goal with the final shape. End suffering by killing everything and no longer allowing the idea of creation. But ol nezcafé's whole purpose is to feed off of causing suffering, so I think he probably helped savathun prevent the previous collapse, and in return, the witness killed him by crashing his Pyramid into the moon.
Couple things I like about Nezarec. -the Tormentors are called Imprints of Nezarec, and nightmares torment their targets. -when fighting Calus at the end, before the Tormentor shows up, Calus tells. "Is this enough Pain for you?" And Nez is all about bringing pain.
I’m not sure if anyone has looked at it but there is a very interesting mural you can find that’s behind the radial mast destruction mission. It shows beings half dark half light and a being like the witness
Major, major cool points for pointing out the HP Lovecraft reference. What's cool is that I commented on yesterday's video that the whole Nezzerac connection felt like Dead Space/Space Odyssey, which has major HP Lovecraft influences. Also, if Nezzerac is the new raid boss, you can bet I'll be trying to beat him with his own stick, just for the memes.
That line when The Witness is disappointed in Calus: "We know pain. Our purpose is it's end..." is staring me right in the face. It's so difficult for me to see Nezarec and the Witness working together. Like, it feels OBVIOUS they're pitted against each other. During that cutscene - I'm somewhat of the opinion that Calus is having a nightmare created by Nezarec, and the possible shapeshifting "The Witness" performs is Nezarec instilling more fear into Calus.
While we definitely need more explanation as to why Nezarec might still be loyal to the Witness, I don't think he was in that cutscene. The simplest reason is that what the Witness told Calus is consistent with what we know of it so far. It knows pain because it wields the Darkness, the paracausal force that manipulates "mental energy" throughout the universe (as the Light manipulates physical matter). I don't think it could wield the Darkness to such a degree without having strong psychic powers, which would include empathic ones. "Our purpose is its end" refers to the final shape, a universe in which only the strongest survive and there is no more pain because there is no more competition or fighting for survival. On a broad level, it makes sense, but what's kind of interesting about the Sword Logic is that it ignores emotional pain. Imagine if you were the last thing alive in the final shape, but you carried the guilt of the, let's say, millions of beings you killed to survive. Would the Witness care about that? If not, that's extra weird, given the psychic nature of the Darkness. Anyways, I digress. Lastly, while Nezarec has been able to influence the people of Neomuna because their consciousnesses are in the CloudArk, he's still trapped in the Vex Network and so couldn't have influenced Calus, who isn't plugged in.
@@dembro27 Nezarec seems to be able to influence things outside of being "plugged in." Shadowkeep, for example. As far as what the Final Shape is... you're assuming The Witness is following Sword Logic. How do we know this?
I'm calling it. We got the whole "Traitor" thing wrong. Nezarec didn't betray The Witness. Nezarec betrayed Xi Ro, Sathona, and Aurash when they were still the Krill. When Nezarec was still a Krill. Nezarec is and always has been Taox. That explains the OXTA machine and the Psions having worshipped Nezarec. Because what they were worshipping was in fact Taox/Nezarec! Taox betrayed the sisters and fled when they became the Hive Gods Savathun, Xivu, and Oryx. We never learned what happened to Taox. I'm betting Taox needed sanctuary and The Witness granted it. They formed an alliance and Taox became Nezarec, Disciple of the Witness. It explains why the Hive guarded Nezarec's ship on the Moon. They sealed it away to keep Nezarec's influence at bay. They knew Nezarec was Taox but even in death Nezarec's influence would spread. Whispers invading dreams and the subconscious. Misraak's mother was called to the Lunar Pyramid and divided up the relics of Nezarec. The Psions OXTA machine spread into legend that even found Calus's attention. The tea that Mithrax made was Nezarec pulling the strings to unlock Savathun's memories to guide Osiris to The Veil. Now Nezarec is in the Vex Network and seconds away from a second coming and we played right into it's hands.
Taox is female. And before you say “Oryx was female”, that was before he took the King Morph upon taking the Worm from the Worm Gods. Taox didn’t take any Worm, she fled before they could attempt that on her, which suggests she wouldn’t want anything to do with Sword Logic, Darkness, and the Witness. It’s very unlikely she’s alive. This theory is reaching hard, not to mention that we don’t know anything on Nezarec’s origins. If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly take that L, but I wouldn’t bet on this being anywhere near close to the truth. Edit: Actually, upon looking further, she already had a morph, it seems. The “Mother” morph. It’s extremely unlikely she morphed again. This theory is taking 2 things we know very little about and trying to piece them together. That leaves a *lot* of room for error. This theory is also suggesting she betrayed the Hive, somehow became a Disciple as Nezarec and joined up with them again as we know Nezarec was present during the Collapse, and somehow all was forgiven, at least enough to work together on the Collapse. Though admittedly, the “OXTA” thing is interesting. Though it’s seemingly a reference to the Vex having a simulation of Taox.
@@equestrianmidnight5619 I should probably mention the reason I made this theory was because of the cutscene is Season of the Plunder when it shows Mithrax's mother cutting into Nezarec's corpse. It shows Moths scattering. Now, granted, the Pyramid ship is on Luna and Luna is primarily held by the Hive. But it still felt odd... It was inside the Nezarec's ship which had no Hive at all and the Hive try and stop us in Shadowkeep from gaining access to it. When I dove harder into the Krill and the Hive Taox stood out because her fate is still unknown. Her nickname, "The Traitor Mother", also raised a lot of flags. I know this theory isn't completely sound but I can't find anything that fully disproves it mainly because there's so little know about Taox and Nezarec. But the fact the OXA/OXTA machine has suddenly resurfaced in the lore and Nezarec mentions the Psions used to worship them? It seems too strange to be a coincidence...
@@phenominal13 This is fair, at least you're not suggesting this is the truth, only that it could be. But if it is true, it makes the story-telling really awkward as it doesn't explain Taox's sudden change of heart in avoiding the Hive to working alongside them towards "finality".
I told my a friend I thought the tormentors looked kinda like large psions just a little mutated, I feel like nezarec is going to be an even larger tormentor
@@matthewbell8950 There are several Tormentors called Imprint of Nezarec. I don't think he's a big Tormentor, I think they're limited attempts to mimic him.
What really chaps my hide is that I had like, this exact same theory a few days ago, but I didn’t want to post it on the message boards because it sounded, in my opinion, quite dumb to me. I assumed Nezarec was a gestalt entity, the Psion’s collective primal urge of fear, regret, and terror, come to life through their Psionic might. That’s what the god-thoughts were. Not just Nezarec, but others, like love and envy and sadness as well. But I thought, how could a psionic entity be a disciple? they have no corporeal form, and the witness doesn’t seem like the type to just swing by, make a disciple, and then leave. No survivors is the Witness motto. So… is it possible the “body” of Nezarec is just a suit of armor? A hollow shell, waiting to be filled by him? Is that why he has survived so long? Because he cannot truly be killed? Anyway, thats my theory.
Hey Byf! After the weekly reset that happened a few hours ago, a secret exotic mission for the "Vexcalibur" was discovered. There is a blue eyed vex that lets you enter the mission that beeps morse code, and mithrax tells you that there is a voice demanding you to go further into the vex network. Asher Mir also appears in the mission as a hologram for a few seconds, so its safe to say that your assumptions about him being trapped inside the vex network trying to contact us were 100% true. Just thought I'd let you know!
@veilfather a ton of people aren’t looking for datamined info, man. Unless they ask for it specifically, it’s kind of shitty to just drop stuff in random comments.
byf said "outer god" and i immediately knew he would bring up nyarlathotep. i knew i wasn't the only one seeing the parallels. i'd admittedly not read the story, so the except he shared was new to me, but based on what little I knew, I couldn't help but trace the red string of spinfoil between them
Great video. Love Lovecraft and I totally see it. This is pretty unrelated but a cool detail of the pyramids during the campaign missions was the gravity lifts, I think they’re a reference to the acoustic levitation (which is pseudo science) that some people (who underestimate human ingenuity) believe was used to build the pyramids, I believe it’s even in the same shape as real section of one the pyramids of Giza. I thought it was a nice touch. Anyway. Appreciate your videos dude, keep up the good work
Nezarec is remining me of Sauron a lot. a powerful entity that once served a godlike being, but detached and started taking over using mental will rather than just brute force even after death, their spirit endured, and used fear to control kingdoms and civilizations but instead of rings, Nezarec uses his nightmares if Nezarec becomes the next big bad if he survives after this raid, then the possibly of nightmares becoming the next darkness subclass is actually becoming more and more likely
I don’t know if you recall, but there was a lore book that referenced a secret on Titan I believe. It was called, “Last Days on Kraken Mare”, which was written around the time of the firsts Collapse. Whether it had something to do with Nezzy or the “Enemy of the Witness” mentioned in the Winterbite questline. Hope it helps!
my brain has been spinning wildly after noticing a few Tormentors with the title "Imprint of Nezarec" This sums up all my thoughts pretty much perfectly
I will admit, the second you mentioned Nyarly, my jaw hit the floor. I have no idea how I never made that comparison when I 1. I have read the works of Lovecraft and am familiar with The Dweller in Darkness and 2. I am a massive SMT/Persona fan and Nyarlathotep is a massive player in the first two (technically 3) games in the persona series. It is a very apt comparison to how things are playing out with the whispers and machinations before us
Great vid byf always enjoy hearing your insight on the lore. Also something you should look into in the future is “No Time Left mission final boss room murals”
Considering how the duality dungeon and the Heartshadow sword had huge ties to the Legacy of Kain series, and the Soul Reaver, your observation about Nyarlathotep is very probable. Awesome catch.
For me the most dangerous thing in destiny is the warlock jump, but I do enjoy listening to what it should be. Thanks for all the listening and reading you do so I don’t have too. Great stuff mate keep it up
to note. We had a EV item called "Eldritch Entrance Transmat Effect". Which coincidentally, was the relic dead center in middle of The CoS Raid in the final boss room.
Just making a guess about the raid coming up soon, I was thinking that there would be some manifestation of Dredgen Yor in a Lovecraftian form as a guess for a boss. Then I got bullied real bad for just the concept and if Nezerac can psychically conjure such a thing it would be terrifying and cool
I can't wait to learn more about Nezarec. He's been such a mystery since the first exotic was made available, and only now are we actually hearing more than his name.
I think my favorite line regarding Nezerac has to be the one where Nimbus acknowledges the fact he’s speaking and tells the Guardian after their done they need to find a way to shut him up
I would like to theorize that nezarec may potentially lead to more story arcs revolving around xivu arath, mainly because both feed from similar sources... violence. Nezarec revels in the idea that our guardian causes chaos/pain, he doesn't care what side we're on, as long as we perpetuate that pain. Xivu is similar that she revels in war, as long as there's a war raging, she feeds her worm, and like we saw in season of the seraph, we couldn't defeat her through conventional means because it would only make her stronger. So, could it be possible that xivu is somehow influenced by nezarec? Or even the hive as a whole, as their entire species is bound to a blood tithe. Not something that is too out of reach, as both oppose the final shape, and as seen by savathun, the hive are not completely under the control of the witness
From the look of the light looking plants from the raid teaser, got me thinking if Nezzy has the capability to weild the light, total nutcase theory, but if he's going after the CloudArk, which is connected to the Veil, maybe he's tapping into some traveler related stuff. Just a thought I had, probably super wrong in 100 different ways but I felt like saying it
The Cthlhu mythos in Destiny 2? Sign me up! I can definitely see the similarities, now you've pointed them out so clearly. Also, and I can't believe I never noticed it before, but it amazes me (now) how close Nezarec's Sin looks like the psion helmets...
I’m so glad he is so much more than an Exotic’s description. I want to do the raid day 1 and freak out over seeing The Final God of Pain for the first time and geek out about it. And also, I guess do my first Raid while I’m at it.
The reference to the K1 relic influencing Clovis Bray to create the exo as well is kinda nuts. If you think about Nezarec's need for pain and/or suffering and then remember the lore entries about the Exo having recurring unexplainable dreams of violence.
Dude what a weird feeling having my two big interests cross-over like this. Nyarlathotep is such an interesting antagonist (I'm a big fan of the Cthulhu Mythos, been running a Call of Cthulhu campaign for YEARS now)
I'm running a Starfinder campaign, and it's got a lot of sci Fi references. The main villain is Nyarlothotep. He is creating chaos. Creating a war between species. He is doing this to gain strength b so he can bring the others, especially his father Azethoth. I immediately as you explained what Nezarec and the others do, thought of Nyarlothotep before you brought up the name lol
Very interesting video and amazing work. Also my dumb brain when bring up the examples of Chaos. 1: "Such chaos you bring with you." 2: "Oh, let me see the chaos you bring" My third example. "Where is that DAMN 4th Chaos emerald" XD
Was wondering how long it would take to bring up Nyarlathotep, I was kinda suspicious about it since Haunted, now I'm more that confident that Nezarec is pretty much Nyarlathotep. Really excited for the raid now.
He might not even be the raid boss, they're probably setting up post final shape villains, and nez is a good probability for that considering his setup over the years
This dude has several tombs and HE'S STILL ALIVE.
Alive is subjective since we know some entities can transcend physical death.
Unalived a little too much.
It’s not that impressive. Maybe he works at a cemetery.
@@acgearsandarms1343 my headcanon is that his soul was shunted during his last death into the realm of the vex
We technically have died and were reborn as earth warlords
The chronicon was literally just 2 psions writting in a room for a few weeks making up the most batshit stuff they could and laughing at Calus doing it
We need to give Jisu Calerondo a Pulitzer. They’re giving us more ground-breaking lore than anyone else in the game.
Jesus Colander absolutely has my vote for one!
It’s true.
Jester Coriander deserves the Neomouni Citizen’s Award.
Going to agree, Juicy Corridor has been very helpful
I need to know who the hell is informant is lmao
[Neomuna Civil News with Jisu Calorando jingle plays]
I also like the fact that if you listen to the untranslated whispers it sounds alot like Psion language. If you put it next to Kargen's or the Flayer' sisters dialogue you'll hear it.
This... this is very interesting
My theory is that he was once a psion himself actually. That or he gave them through darkness powers their psionic abilities. It matches up nicely with everything of darkness being mind related
@@atsukana1704 ogres if I recall are torment/experimentation on thrall with hive magic so nezerac could’ve been the apex of psions and the witness reached out to him giving power and a new form a shape if you will. Heck the tormentors could be shadow legion psions that have been experimented on and turned into what we have as tormentors, it could explain the connection with void between the 2 enemies psions have the void blast/melee add some darkness powers and now we have a tormentor with crazy void abilities
@@atsukana1704 Might not be a great piece of evidence, but the leaked post raid cutscene presumably shows Nezarec’s hand, which has 4 fingers. Psions have 5 fingers, so the anatomy doesn’t perfectly match up if he is one.
@@Charon510 One of his fingers were cutt off
The Nezerac/Nyarlathotep comparison honestly blew my mind. What other Mythos entities could have been inspirations for Destiny characters?
Lovecraft's mythos fit perfectly into the lore of Destiny. I hope Nezarek will get his development not in a raid, where maybe we will help him (?), but in one of the seasons. And I also hope that the Bungs will take something from the images of Azathoth and Yog-Sathoth to describe his powers)
Could all of the Disciples have analogues to Mythos beings? I could see Calus as being a (very, _very_ simplified) take on Hastur, with his love of gold and such. I'll be the first to admit that I'm more of an orbital enjoyer of Lovecratian stuff as far as knowledge goes, though I do really enjoy what I know, and it'd be interesting to see if there's more connections that can be made to the known Disciples.
Nyarlethotep might've been (and probably was) inspired by Lovecraft's interest in Egyptian and Sumerian mythology. He puts me in the minds of deities like Nergal, Ershkingal, Anubis, Set, and Kek. Mostly Kek and Nergal (both were gods of chaos and discord). The tormentors and psions both remind me of the various jackal-headed creatures from the Egyptian mythos in physical form.
Soooo... My crackpot theory (super spinfoil).
The anime where she was an adorable sea creature destroyed his power by weebs adoration of the anime.
Literally anything having to do with Hive/Worm Gods is lovecraftian.
Isn’t it odd that Nezarec’s Sin looks like a Psion’s helmet? If that is what Nezarec’s head looks like, it could explain where Psions got the inspiration for their helmets.
Tormentors, or imprints of nezarec, also look related to psions. Their heads especially
I also noticed this. I used to think Psions were just the Cabal's bitches who had to drive Interceptors for me to steal on patrol. D1 naivite was a wonderful thing.
@@Bipolar.Baddie I mean, are they not still?
@@papercamera2989 considering the fact that they are psychic, can see the future, and are the only paracausal entities in the Cabal empire.
@@Bipolar.Baddie And yet they are still the Cabal's bitches who deliver our tank 1 tap cheese cars
As someone who has been interested in Nezerac ever since getting Nezerac’s sin as my first piece of exotic armor back when I first started playing in season of the chosen, I’ve been absolutely ecstatic to learn all of this information and have him start to reveal himself
This made me smile to read. Glad you’re enjoying all of this
Byf there’s a new Jisu Calerondo line where he says scientists and guardians aren’t sure whether or not the traveler is still alive, I have screen caps if you haven’t seen it yet
Yeah I got that one a while ago
That's been around for a while. I've seen it in game personally.
Hmm. ain't run into it but I'm not sure. Maybe the conduit of the Light is still running through the traveler to us, but the Mind, the Sapience of the Traveler is gone? What are Ghosts and their Guardians saying and feeling?
Has anyone else gone back to look at Malok?
A claimant to the Osmium Throne and command of the Taken, who we slew following Oryx's death in the Chantry of Oryx on the moon. We speculated that Malok was under someone's control because his 'free will' despite being Taken and somehow had command over them. It was not soemthing we could explain. It was also with him Savathun entered our speculation regarding the Hive in our system, given Malok's beginnings, really for the first time. However, with new information such as Savathun being present at the collapse, and Nezarec being an important player there too, perhaps it is time for us to retread old ground in search of Nezarec's influence?
We know that Nezarec can command the Taken as well as his 'Nightmares'. Perhaps Malok was commanded in some way by Nezarec?
personally i think it was savathun
Entry VIII is terrifying.
If Nezarec is potentially still out there, then it's plausible there's more like him I'd think. Especially if the Psions talked about dominant overlord(s).
Are these beings what comes AFTER Final Shape?
The story Mithrax tells sounds very similar to the story told in the new Warlock Strand exotic. Of the Vex Mind, Aesop. A being that comes to instil dominion and fear. Apparently Aesop wiped out a ton of the Neomuni when they said no to it's subjugation. It then left them with a promise of returning to destroy them all. This promise left a deep fear in the people and inspired their tight security.
Nezarec says something to the effect of feeding on the fear and pain in the darkness here "again." Thinking about that line brings me to a few different ideas.
A: He's just talking about how he's sorta been asleep for forever and all this pain is finally waking him up and he's excited to get to feed again.
B: He's talking about humanity generally since we obviously have record of his involvement in our culture pre-golden age.
C: He's talking about the Psions here in Neomuna, since there are other lines of dialogue showing he wants to subjugate them again.
D: He's tasted the fear and pain of the Neomuni before. If he and Aesop are the same (which, Aesop is not only a weird name for a Vex but also acts nothing like a Vex in the story) then it would make a lot of sense
@@Danxerz358Aesop is also the fictitious author (but a real historian) of Aesop’s Fables, which is a collection of children’s stories that often tried to tell moral lessons to the reader. I know this is somewhat of a stretch, but it’s not unalike what religions focus on (teaching moral values), and so one could draw a connection to Nezarec there, perhaps.
@@tylersutton9518 I was thinking the same thing! The name might be a clue that we shouldn't take it at face value
@@tylersutton9518 yep i was about to talk about that.
Well I mean, it does look like Nezarec was stuck in the vex network after the collapse...
It's interesting that of the two previous disciples of the Witness, both of them have had a hand in shaping some of the enemies we face. Rhulk with the Hive, and possibly Nezarec with the Psions.
Interesting thing to consider. In one of the pre lightfall seasons, defiance I believe, we learned that the cabal used psions to probe the minds of captured hive for informations, and it was made clear this process put the hive in a state of extreme agony with no release for death. If that’s their best method of info gathering then it likely gained some form of inspiration due to nezerac.
Risen. Defiance is literally happening right now lmao
@@trial_with_an_error9687 yea my bad. I really wasn’t paying attention to any of the current season shit lol
This season is defiance, I think you mean season of the risen.
I distinctly remember Zavala, Saladin and caiatl saying the mind probing didn’t hurt them because they’re sorta brain dead. There was a lore tab that commented on the psion Optus responsible for the mind probing being apprehensive towards probing unwilling minds even if they were hive. I’m thinking, nezerec released the tormentors onto the psions (lore tab somewhere states psion culture was briefly dominated by painful minds that did nothing but inflict pain on their psionic hive mind ) to weaken them so they can’t resist the cabals slavery, eventually having them pressed into service of the witness
The Tormentors must have originated from Nezerac in some way. Many of them have his name in their titles, and.. well they're literally called Tormentors. Nezerac is a god of torment and pain. Chances are we're gonna see a lot of Tormentors in the raid, and Nezerac himself could look a lot like one.
You just predicted the entire raid lol
I don't think Nezarec is just inspired by Nyraletotep I feel the inspiration followed the origins of the Lovecarftian god back to Egypt and has taken pieces of the god Set's characterization and been given to Nezarec as well as Set is a god of storms, violence, and disorder (among a couple other things but im just listing the more relevant bits) there is also a pretty interesting parallel to Nezarec's dimemberment and the story of how Osiris became the god of the dead. We can also make Nezarec refrence as a betrayer make little sense too (if it is true) as in some tellings of Ra's passage through the underworld when he is attacked by Apep (or Apophis) it is Set (either disguised as Horus or not) which is kinda inresting as Set is a god of chaos but so is Apep the diffrence being Apep wants the end of the universe now going back to Nezarec and the Witness, Nezarec wants chaos while the Witness wants to cull the universe to a massive degree its not an exact parallel but it is pretty similar.
loving all the stuff surrounding nezarac, i'm sure he's the raid boss so i can't wait for more
More Nezarec lore is always good. Can't wait for the new Raid to see more Nezarec lore
THIS HELPED PIECE SOMETHING SO IMPORTANT TOGETHER!
So… In the Season of Arrivals, at the tree of silver wings, Eris talks about an ally of ours who walks in the darkness. Specifically one who travels among the black fleet, i’d thought for some time that it had to be whatever entity resided within the lunar pyramid, and the dark reflection of ourselves that we met during Shadowkeep acted with so much more emotion than we see in the Witness. (perhaps the way characters are written change with time, so this is more synchronized than it is correlated, but it isn’t the only thing to suggest this)
We believe that Nezarec had a part to play in the salvation of humanity during the collapse. A collaboration, if you will, between He and Savathun to hide the Veil, and in so doing prevent the Witness from doing whatever it is we saw it do at the end of the Lightfall campaign. But **why?**
If the serves the Witness, and can revel in suffering through his actions as a Disciple, **why** betray it?
The reasonable answer to me seems to be that this Hunger in the Darkness that *is* Nezarec, does not pursue the Final Shape.
The Witness talks of the Final Shape as an “end to suffering”, something that is in direct contradiction to what sustains this outer god of misery.
Don’t get me wrong, that does not make Nezarec our *friend.* But it does pose a feasible solution to the question “where does his title ‘traitor’ come from. I’d think that such a creature does not see the universe the same way we do, nor Calus, nor the Hive Gods. but I digress;
my point is that this revelation seems to show why Nezarec could be both a tool to and an enemy of the Witness while also not being as friendly as our usual seasonal NPC :P, thank you for coming to my rant
I am actually wondering if Nezarec is from the Psion race but was like the apex of their people at the time.
Edit: Thinking about how active he is in Neomuna makes me think he will not be in the raid itself as thats most likely going to be on earth if I had to guess. I think he will be involved in the dungeon that will most likely be on Neptune.
That sounds unlikely, but hella interesting
This is a good question that I had too. Would explain a lot but it's hard to confirm either way till we know more.
I have a feeling the raid might actually be on the Pyramid ship that the traveler blew a hole through
@@doogster911 They dropped a trailer for the raid a little bit ago that pretty much confirms it is
@@doogster911 with it looking like the raid is in that blown up shop idk how nezerac could be a boss. His physical body is chopped up and his mind appears to be in the vex network or maybe he got trapped in the network and recovered from being chopped up idk. There’s a lack of explanation from A to B
Man. I was hoping you'd bring up Marathon lore, with the Wr'Kncacnter being the embodiment of Evil, Suffering and Chaos.
I think it's worth drawing a link between Eris' dialogue from TTK and Nezarec's dialogue here.
"Fingers on the surface of my mind!" Eris, TTK
"Impressionable minds at my proverbial fingertips." Nezarec, Beyond Light
It seems a little on the the nose to just be a turn of phrase.
I mean, if people get nightmares just by Nezarec being near, imagine what living nextdoor to him for that long would do.
I think the connection to Nyarlathotep goes even further, you mentioned that Nyarlathotep would disguise himself as a pharaoh, and two things immediately came to mind. Nezarec's appearance in the Season of Plunder cutscene (he seemed to be wrapped in bandages similar to how the egyptians would bury their dead, and the relics from season of Plunder, that remind me a lot of the jars holding the organs of the dead. Just figured i'd put this out there lol
To know the Neomuni aren’t safe in the digital world of the Vexnet, let alone the physical world, is pretty terrifying. It’s like Nezarec is the personification of fear.
So, crazy thought. I decided to go back and listen to old lore related to the darkness and came back across Egregor (one of Myleins) and he played a clip of Calus describing Egregor as feeding/connecting to beings about to die, specifically the Terror before it. Shot in the dark, Egregor is a creation of Nezarecs
Hello byf I just wanted to say love your channel keep up the good work and thank you for being the lore lord
We need boots named Nezarec’s Good Deeds
I doubt the raid will be his “final death” he’s transcended death
honestly i dont even know if he can die at this point
Not if we eliminate his spirit, which is assumedly inside The Witness' ship
How much you want to bet he is just being built as the next big bad after the witness.
@@aaronlaughter6471 That was my guess. If there is a universe after this one it means the witness failed. What major villain with that much of a sphere of influence exists and still wants the universe to exist? None other than Nezarec.
@@Shapes_Quality_Control i beg to differ i think the vex would be the main antagonists after the light and dark saga, there is still so much we dont know about them especially their home world, and honestly considering they can go thru the multiverse just like the witness and the traveler makes em a scary oponent
I mentioned this elsewhere but does anyone else get the feeling that the Nezerecs Sin lore tab is an autobiography?
I think the new exotic glaive, Vexcalibur, translates Nezarec’s whispers. I was using it earlier and I could understand what he was saying, and I didn’t have any of the other equipment on that’s confirmed to translate his whispers.
Nezarec's Sin, the helmet, looks like a Psion helmet.
It’s funny I was having this same conversation likening him to that of lovecraft entities, particularly cuthulu though this one brought up seems more to his liking. What we did relate to that of cuthulu is from the text on Nezerecs sin helmet, where it describes him to be so wicked and divine yet also portrays a note worthy quality to him that he will never cower and fall and that what he offers is not as seemingly bad as what we initially think. To this it clicked in our heads that like cuthulu, while most portray him to be wicked and evil and his frightening abilities portray this to us and manipulation… in reality he is a primordial being, existing beyond our understanding and along with the universe, they are essential and they do not fit the narrative of being “evil” they just “are”. I believe this is the same for nazerec and why the text has written him as such and why he has or will betray the witness. The universe is essential to him to sustain life and he is in a way essential as well . A being tied to it, he would not let the witness bring an end to it.
The fact that you mention Lovecraft and compare it with Nezarec was delightful, big fan of the cosmic horror
I have a theory, what if Nezerec only exists within the vex net because he accessed it through vex minds? And the vex's backdoor to the cloud ark allowed him to access the Neomuni because they uploaded themselves to evade the shadow legion? He says he needs power, and what if he's gaining this power through the terror that he's able to inflict upon the Neomuni, as well as the pain we are causing. That recontextualizes his speaking with us as a cruel taunt, hinting at what he's doing because there's nothing we can do to stop it, we can't stop killing the Shadow legion, and we can't pull the Neomuni back into the physical world without putting them in danger. In short: it's already checkmate for his return, and there's nothing we can do but help him achieve it.
I can't wait to (hopefully) see Nezarec in the raid, villain lore steadily building up over time is one of my favorite aspects of this game
Byf If you see this I would like to ask you a question, in the new exotic quest for the vexcaliber it begins on earth where it seems that there is vex activity, that’s not normal right? Like we’ve had vex on earth before with the endless night simulation in the last city but that was created by Savathun using Quria who also helped her control the vex so to my knowledge we haven’t actually see proper uninfluenced vex on earth, so unless there is someone else influencing the vex that we don’t know about, could this mean that with the absence of the traveler that the vex might be starting to plan a full scale invasion of earth?
That Vex activity was the opening of the node that Asher had opened the gate on the network’s side, and fed us the access code to see the well of the gateway that was woven for us
@@cj-3810 yeah now that the lore daddy has blessed us with his knowledge in the latest video and now that I’ve actually played the quest I can see that, but I’m still kinda disappointed it’s not what I thought because I really want the vex to be a major antagonist again because they’re my favourite race and they haven’t really been the focal point of anything since the curse of Osiris like yeah they shown up hear and there in other seasons and expansions but always as a side threat not the main villains which is want I them to be.
@@Jpow5734 I think they’ve been really roping into the vex a lot more, with us getting more and more glimpses into the internal vex network… Maybe Asher will act as our guide into the digital depths on a later date… Considering the light and dark saga is coming to a close and they keep showing up glimpses of the Vex who have continuously been shown to be free agents and yet ever powerful, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did become a major antagonist again
Even with the fact that the new largest area in D2 is a pristine golden-age Ishtar Collective city, the major Vex offensive that’s been going on there for god knows how long, there’s so much that we’ve yet to even skim as to what the archives offer us.
I think Nezarec is considered a betrayer because he betrayed the witness by not wanting the universe to end. I say this because he indulges in the suffering and terror of others, but the witness has always been about wanting to end the suffering of the universe, and that's its whole goal with the final shape. End suffering by killing everything and no longer allowing the idea of creation. But ol nezcafé's whole purpose is to feed off of causing suffering, so I think he probably helped savathun prevent the previous collapse, and in return, the witness killed him by crashing his Pyramid into the moon.
Couple things I like about Nezarec.
-the Tormentors are called Imprints of Nezarec, and nightmares torment their targets.
-when fighting Calus at the end, before the Tormentor shows up, Calus tells. "Is this enough Pain for you?" And Nez is all about bringing pain.
I’m not sure if anyone has looked at it but there is a very interesting mural you can find that’s behind the radial mast destruction mission. It shows beings half dark half light and a being like the witness
Have you checked the symbol on the site after it updated about the raid? He's definitely gonna be the raid boss lol
Just did and oh boy.... Well that's going to be something to talk about alright...
@@MynameisByf saw it and instantly said "hey, that looks a lot like ERRMMERRGERRDD!!!"
Major, major cool points for pointing out the HP Lovecraft reference. What's cool is that I commented on yesterday's video that the whole Nezzerac connection felt like Dead Space/Space Odyssey, which has major HP Lovecraft influences. Also, if Nezzerac is the new raid boss, you can bet I'll be trying to beat him with his own stick, just for the memes.
That line when The Witness is disappointed in Calus: "We know pain. Our purpose is it's end..." is staring me right in the face. It's so difficult for me to see Nezarec and the Witness working together. Like, it feels OBVIOUS they're pitted against each other.
During that cutscene - I'm somewhat of the opinion that Calus is having a nightmare created by Nezarec, and the possible shapeshifting "The Witness" performs is Nezarec instilling more fear into Calus.
While we definitely need more explanation as to why Nezarec might still be loyal to the Witness, I don't think he was in that cutscene. The simplest reason is that what the Witness told Calus is consistent with what we know of it so far.
It knows pain because it wields the Darkness, the paracausal force that manipulates "mental energy" throughout the universe (as the Light manipulates physical matter). I don't think it could wield the Darkness to such a degree without having strong psychic powers, which would include empathic ones.
"Our purpose is its end" refers to the final shape, a universe in which only the strongest survive and there is no more pain because there is no more competition or fighting for survival. On a broad level, it makes sense, but what's kind of interesting about the Sword Logic is that it ignores emotional pain. Imagine if you were the last thing alive in the final shape, but you carried the guilt of the, let's say, millions of beings you killed to survive. Would the Witness care about that? If not, that's extra weird, given the psychic nature of the Darkness. Anyways, I digress.
Lastly, while Nezarec has been able to influence the people of Neomuna because their consciousnesses are in the CloudArk, he's still trapped in the Vex Network and so couldn't have influenced Calus, who isn't plugged in.
@@dembro27 Nezarec seems to be able to influence things outside of being "plugged in." Shadowkeep, for example.
As far as what the Final Shape is... you're assuming The Witness is following Sword Logic. How do we know this?
I've been reading Lovecraft's work lately, so that link to his short and all the comparisons was super neat.
I'm calling it. We got the whole "Traitor" thing wrong. Nezarec didn't betray The Witness. Nezarec betrayed Xi Ro, Sathona, and Aurash when they were still the Krill. When Nezarec was still a Krill. Nezarec is and always has been Taox. That explains the OXTA machine and the Psions having worshipped Nezarec. Because what they were worshipping was in fact Taox/Nezarec! Taox betrayed the sisters and fled when they became the Hive Gods Savathun, Xivu, and Oryx. We never learned what happened to Taox. I'm betting Taox needed sanctuary and The Witness granted it. They formed an alliance and Taox became Nezarec, Disciple of the Witness.
It explains why the Hive guarded Nezarec's ship on the Moon. They sealed it away to keep Nezarec's influence at bay. They knew Nezarec was Taox but even in death Nezarec's influence would spread. Whispers invading dreams and the subconscious. Misraak's mother was called to the Lunar Pyramid and divided up the relics of Nezarec. The Psions OXTA machine spread into legend that even found Calus's attention. The tea that Mithrax made was Nezarec pulling the strings to unlock Savathun's memories to guide Osiris to The Veil. Now Nezarec is in the Vex Network and seconds away from a second coming and we played right into it's hands.
Oh wow so much to think on
Taox is female. And before you say “Oryx was female”, that was before he took the King Morph upon taking the Worm from the Worm Gods. Taox didn’t take any Worm, she fled before they could attempt that on her, which suggests she wouldn’t want anything to do with Sword Logic, Darkness, and the Witness. It’s very unlikely she’s alive.
This theory is reaching hard, not to mention that we don’t know anything on Nezarec’s origins. If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly take that L, but I wouldn’t bet on this being anywhere near close to the truth.
Edit: Actually, upon looking further, she already had a morph, it seems. The “Mother” morph. It’s extremely unlikely she morphed again. This theory is taking 2 things we know very little about and trying to piece them together. That leaves a *lot* of room for error. This theory is also suggesting she betrayed the Hive, somehow became a Disciple as Nezarec and joined up with them again as we know Nezarec was present during the Collapse, and somehow all was forgiven, at least enough to work together on the Collapse.
Though admittedly, the “OXTA” thing is interesting. Though it’s seemingly a reference to the Vex having a simulation of Taox.
@@equestrianmidnight5619 If Nezerac is a shape shifter as was mention then it could be an Osiris situation.
@@equestrianmidnight5619 I should probably mention the reason I made this theory was because of the cutscene is Season of the Plunder when it shows Mithrax's mother cutting into Nezarec's corpse. It shows Moths scattering. Now, granted, the Pyramid ship is on Luna and Luna is primarily held by the Hive. But it still felt odd... It was inside the Nezarec's ship which had no Hive at all and the Hive try and stop us in Shadowkeep from gaining access to it. When I dove harder into the Krill and the Hive Taox stood out because her fate is still unknown. Her nickname, "The Traitor Mother", also raised a lot of flags.
I know this theory isn't completely sound but I can't find anything that fully disproves it mainly because there's so little know about Taox and Nezarec. But the fact the OXA/OXTA machine has suddenly resurfaced in the lore and Nezarec mentions the Psions used to worship them? It seems too strange to be a coincidence...
@@phenominal13 This is fair, at least you're not suggesting this is the truth, only that it could be. But if it is true, it makes the story-telling really awkward as it doesn't explain Taox's sudden change of heart in avoiding the Hive to working alongside them towards "finality".
Nezarec’s Sin even looks like a psion’s head.
My thing about Skira is the title it has: "The Watcher"
Is there a chance that Skira could also be The Witness, as opposed to Nezarec?
no , because the fallen simply stopped believing in that fairy tale and skira ceased to harm them
Either Skull Of Dire Ahamkara or Osteo Striga also allow you to hear her whispers, Noticed while playing through with my Warlock last night.
I told my a friend I thought the tormentors looked kinda like large psions just a little mutated, I feel like nezarec is going to be an even larger tormentor
That’d be really disappointing
@Tylen Martinchuk I agree but destiny is known to be disappointing more than not
@@matthewbell8950 There are several Tormentors called Imprint of Nezarec. I don't think he's a big Tormentor, I think they're limited attempts to mimic him.
@veilfather I saw the leak. he doesnt look exactely like a tormentor but not too far from it either
@veilfather tormentor don't looks far from rhulk bro lol. I'm not saying they're identical, maybe same species though
The 15 second click in💪🏾💪🏾
What really chaps my hide is that I had like, this exact same theory a few days ago, but I didn’t want to post it on the message boards because it sounded, in my opinion, quite dumb to me. I assumed Nezarec was a gestalt entity, the Psion’s collective primal urge of fear, regret, and terror, come to life through their Psionic might. That’s what the god-thoughts were. Not just Nezarec, but others, like love and envy and sadness as well. But I thought, how could a psionic entity be a disciple? they have no corporeal form, and the witness doesn’t seem like the type to just swing by, make a disciple, and then leave. No survivors is the Witness motto. So… is it possible the “body” of Nezarec is just a suit of armor? A hollow shell, waiting to be filled by him? Is that why he has survived so long? Because he cannot truly be killed? Anyway, thats my theory.
All hail lord Nezarec 🙌
Remember kids Calus wrote fanfiction about us never forget that
Hey Byf! After the weekly reset that happened a few hours ago, a secret exotic mission for the "Vexcalibur" was discovered. There is a blue eyed vex that lets you enter the mission that beeps morse code, and mithrax tells you that there is a voice demanding you to go further into the vex network. Asher Mir also appears in the mission as a hologram for a few seconds, so its safe to say that your assumptions about him being trapped inside the vex network trying to contact us were 100% true. Just thought I'd let you know!
I don’t know when you got a million subscribers, but congrats. Love this video and many others. Thank you for the consistent content 🤙
I hope Nezarec is a giant tormentor and is either a boss or the final boss of the raid
@veilfather a ton of people aren’t looking for datamined info, man. Unless they ask for it specifically, it’s kind of shitty to just drop stuff in random comments.
byf said "outer god" and i immediately knew he would bring up nyarlathotep. i knew i wasn't the only one seeing the parallels. i'd admittedly not read the story, so the except he shared was new to me, but based on what little I knew, I couldn't help but trace the red string of spinfoil between them
BYF I think you're onto something about the love craft theory. Well done for updating us with nezerec lore.
It's cool to hear you talk about lovecraftian mythos i could honestly listen to it all day
the connection to nyarlathotep is pretty darn solid, good stuff byffy
Great video. Love Lovecraft and I totally see it. This is pretty unrelated but a cool detail of the pyramids during the campaign missions was the gravity lifts, I think they’re a reference to the acoustic levitation (which is pseudo science) that some people (who underestimate human ingenuity) believe was used to build the pyramids, I believe it’s even in the same shape as real section of one the pyramids of Giza. I thought it was a nice touch. Anyway. Appreciate your videos dude, keep up the good work
He's essentially Destiny's Boogeyman. I cant not help but think of Pitch from Rise of the Guardians. (Dude even literally used Nightmares)
Nezarec is remining me of Sauron a lot.
a powerful entity that once served a godlike being, but detached and started taking over using mental will rather than just brute force
even after death, their spirit endured, and used fear to control kingdoms and civilizations
but instead of rings, Nezarec uses his nightmares
if Nezarec becomes the next big bad if he survives after this raid, then the possibly of nightmares becoming the next darkness subclass is actually becoming more and more likely
I don’t know if you recall, but there was a lore book that referenced a secret on Titan I believe. It was called, “Last Days on Kraken Mare”, which was written around the time of the firsts Collapse. Whether it had something to do with Nezzy or the “Enemy of the Witness” mentioned in the Winterbite questline. Hope it helps!
my brain has been spinning wildly after noticing a few Tormentors with the title "Imprint of Nezarec"
This sums up all my thoughts pretty much perfectly
I will admit, the second you mentioned Nyarly, my jaw hit the floor. I have no idea how I never made that comparison when I 1. I have read the works of Lovecraft and am familiar with The Dweller in Darkness and 2. I am a massive SMT/Persona fan and Nyarlathotep is a massive player in the first two (technically 3) games in the persona series. It is a very apt comparison to how things are playing out with the whispers and machinations before us
The new lines from Witness in Final Shape add some great context for this subject in a brief moment
Great vid byf always enjoy hearing your insight on the lore. Also something you should look into in the future is “No Time Left mission final boss room murals”
Considering how the duality dungeon and the Heartshadow sword had huge ties to the Legacy of Kain series, and the Soul Reaver, your observation about Nyarlathotep is very probable.
Awesome catch.
Hearing Byf read H.P.Lovecraft excerpts makes me want more C'thulu readings!
Completly unrelated idea: how about a top 10 destiny roasts video? Yes, Caiatl roasting the news anchor gave me the idea.
Nezarec whispered in my ear "I sense your radiating power. Such chaos you bring with you"
I whispered in his "I like your helmet"
That line about hours of mind numbing fun reminds me of the 4th wall break with Savathuun in the lore that came up right before Witch Queen
For me the most dangerous thing in destiny is the warlock jump, but I do enjoy listening to what it should be. Thanks for all the listening and reading you do so I don’t have too. Great stuff mate keep it up
to note. We had a EV item called "Eldritch Entrance Transmat Effect". Which coincidentally, was the relic dead center in middle of The CoS Raid in the final boss room.
Just making a guess about the raid coming up soon, I was thinking that there would be some manifestation of Dredgen Yor in a Lovecraftian form as a guess for a boss.
Then I got bullied real bad for just the concept and if Nezerac can psychically conjure such a thing it would be terrifying and cool
I'm absolutely loving the parallels between lovecrafts old gods and nezarec
I can't wait to learn more about Nezarec. He's been such a mystery since the first exotic was made available, and only now are we actually hearing more than his name.
I'm calling it...Nezarec is an ancient Psion
Ooh, good thought with the lovecraftian comparison. The unknowable terror beyond the stars vibes are very strong right now!
I like when nexarec bust through the wall screaming " it's nezze time" and scared all those children
I think my favorite line regarding Nezerac has to be the one where Nimbus acknowledges the fact he’s speaking and tells the Guardian after their done they need to find a way to shut him up
I would like to theorize that nezarec may potentially lead to more story arcs revolving around xivu arath, mainly because both feed from similar sources... violence. Nezarec revels in the idea that our guardian causes chaos/pain, he doesn't care what side we're on, as long as we perpetuate that pain. Xivu is similar that she revels in war, as long as there's a war raging, she feeds her worm, and like we saw in season of the seraph, we couldn't defeat her through conventional means because it would only make her stronger. So, could it be possible that xivu is somehow influenced by nezarec? Or even the hive as a whole, as their entire species is bound to a blood tithe. Not something that is too out of reach, as both oppose the final shape, and as seen by savathun, the hive are not completely under the control of the witness
I wonder if this ties into the dialogue found in the "Insight Terminus" Strike. Kargen, and the two corrupted Vex entries about MSund12 & Otzot?
From the look of the light looking plants from the raid teaser, got me thinking if Nezzy has the capability to weild the light, total nutcase theory, but if he's going after the CloudArk, which is connected to the Veil, maybe he's tapping into some traveler related stuff. Just a thought I had, probably super wrong in 100 different ways but I felt like saying it
The Cthlhu mythos in Destiny 2? Sign me up! I can definitely see the similarities, now you've pointed them out so clearly. Also, and I can't believe I never noticed it before, but it amazes me (now) how close Nezarec's Sin looks like the psion helmets...
Early to a byf upload, les go.
I’m so glad he is so much more than an Exotic’s description. I want to do the raid day 1 and freak out over seeing The Final God of Pain for the first time and geek out about it. And also, I guess do my first Raid while I’m at it.
The reference to the K1 relic influencing Clovis Bray to create the exo as well is kinda nuts. If you think about Nezarec's need for pain and/or suffering and then remember the lore entries about the Exo having recurring unexplainable dreams of violence.
This lore keeps blowing my mind, keep up the mindboggling content Eh BYF 🖖😁
Dude what a weird feeling having my two big interests cross-over like this. Nyarlathotep is such an interesting antagonist (I'm a big fan of the Cthulhu Mythos, been running a Call of Cthulhu campaign for YEARS now)
As a huge fan of lovecrafts work (obviously not as a person) I’m so excited to hear you talking about it!
Pyramids in Egypt. Pyramid ships in Destiny.
The Sphinx in Egypt. The very Sphinx-like statue thing in the Typhon Imperator when you enter.
Fun fact, the inspiration for the Moon Presence in Bloodborne was Nyarlethotep. I'd love some Lovecraftian story telling in D2
I'm glad to see it wasn't just me drawing comparisons between Nezarec and Nyarlathotep.
I'm running a Starfinder campaign, and it's got a lot of sci Fi references. The main villain is Nyarlothotep. He is creating chaos. Creating a war between species. He is doing this to gain strength b so he can bring the others, especially his father Azethoth. I immediately as you explained what Nezarec and the others do, thought of Nyarlothotep before you brought up the name lol
Fantastic connection to Lovecraft, great vid fr
“Pain, Terror, Chaos”
Sounds like me whenever I’m constipated on the toilet
Very interesting video and amazing work. Also my dumb brain when bring up the examples of Chaos.
1: "Such chaos you bring with you."
2: "Oh, let me see the chaos you bring"
My third example.
"Where is that DAMN 4th Chaos emerald" XD
I think this is the most hyped i’ve been for a raid by far
Was wondering how long it would take to bring up Nyarlathotep, I was kinda suspicious about it since Haunted, now I'm more that confident that Nezarec is pretty much Nyarlathotep. Really excited for the raid now.
I don't think I've ever been more hyped for a raid boss like this before.
He might not even be the raid boss, they're probably setting up post final shape villains, and nez is a good probability for that considering his setup over the years