If you don't insulate the top enough you will get moisture dropping down. And if you have the entrance on the very top you're losing all that top hot air, the heat dome. Depends entirely where you are. On the other hand are really strong hive will never have trouble for the most part dealing with moisture.
There’s no doubt that insulation is the solution. You said that we could insulate out beehives like our houses, but that it can trap to much moisture. If you got moisture problem in our home, then the house has to little insulation. Condensation will form where hot and cold air meets. If you insulate you don’t get any cold air and then no condensation. I need to insulate my hives and I don’t have any moisture problem. The top of the hive is the most critical place. There I use 30cm of insulation, no venting. The bees make a heat-pocket in the upper part of the hive where it won’t condense! 😊
Two words: Condensing Hive. Look it up, stop beekeeping like it's the nineteenth century. Beekeeping is about learning and education; folks keep bees (single deeps) in the subarctic with minimal losses using well insulated hives with NO upper ventilation. The science is sound. Happy beekeeping!
Beekeeping is very regional, and also there are several different ways to keep Bees. Single brood chamber is not for everyone, double deeps are not for everyone. If a beekeeper finds a way to keep the bees alive, no matter the method they go about it, what else could you ask for.
Feral bees do not do well in the US due to many uncontrolled pest and diseases. We've had swarms move in to hallow trees around here, but they never survive winter. However, I've seen them take cleansing flights on warm winter days. Debris/dead sisters fall down further away from the colony in a tree. That's why I like screen bottom boards with an upper entrance for winter.
Good stuff David. I've changed up my winter beekeeping over the last few years. I transitioned to the insulated inner covers and have had success. Wind breaks are a great tool as well. Enjoyed the video.
Just started our season down in NZ dandelions and poppy are in bloom. Chopped mustard crop last week. Bees love the flowers. Had a suit mishap two nights ago gap in suit zipper inspected bees at night had about 25 bees in my mask stinging neck and face. Learning the hard way. Didn't get to sleep until 2
I've seen a lot of changes in beekeeping since I first started in 1985; and my overwintering management practices have changed dramatically over time. I'm not a Northern beekeeper but we have four months of hard winter here. Forty years ago double deeps without insulation or upper ventilation was the norm; and a 90%, or better, winter survival rate was the result. However, today, worker bee longevity has been diminished for a plethora of reasons; which translates to smaller clusters over winter. And both common sense and recent research tell us that winter cold is a major stress factor with colonies. Summary: I currently have a 80% survival rate overwinter using a homemade polystyrene ten frame single brood box without any upper ventilation; the entrance is three inches long and three-quarters inches high with a wind guard to keep strong winds from entering. The larger colonies get a bit humid but they appear to thrive in such conditions; by early spring these hives typically have huge brood nests, and their consumption of stores is remarkably low during winter. My conclusion is that high moisture levels are not a contributing factor for losing a colony.
Remember, bees only heat each other through clustering. They have never heated the inside of their hive like we do our homes. In old literature beekeepers staggered their hive bodies in the north to allow stale wet air to leave the hive in the winter.
Great video! I use a single deep with a Beesmart insulated top. with a medium on of that. I do feed through the insulate top. I wrap all but the bottom 3rd. I live in Michigan, which gets pretty cold. It's works great though, second season using this method
I noticed that metal, moisture and cold don’t make a good combo. Sort of like Ralphie and the flag pole. I even had bees stuck fast to my metal mouse guard. Just something to consider and maybe why they prefer your top entrance to a cold screen. I love your candy boards, my first year hive made 3 hives after using it last winter. thanks for another great video.
My reasoning is never to use a top entrance .... if the bees are clustering at the top why would they fly ? ...seems contradictory so i just dont do it
Ask 10 beekeepers a bee keeping question and you'll get 20 different answers. I personally have greatly increased my overwintering success since I quit using moisture boxes and upper entrances on my colonies. I've since started placing 1.5" think foam boxes on my colonies (4 sides and top) turning them into Condensing Hives. In conjunction I have increased the number of mite treatments applied throughout the year. I live in Northern Michigan, your results may vary.
what if you wrap the N-E-W sides leaving S side unwrapped - then twice the amount of insulation on the top? I use 2" foam boards with bungee cords to keep it on. This is my 3rd winter - no loses so far (knock on wood) - but I think this year I might keep south side foam board off for the sunshine aspect. I only have 3 hives. Plus then I can use my Flir camera to see where the cluster is - before I couldn't due to insulation on all 4 sides.
The Flir cameras are cool to use on bee hives. Any insulation on top goes a long way. That's why decades ago we placed insulation on our Winter-Bee-Kind board.
Thanks for subscribing. Yes, and my friend William Hesbach, is the God-Father of condensing hives, fellow EAS Master Beekeeper recently was interviewed by Dr. David Peck about this as well. However, my best mentor on this subject is Lorenzo Langstroth. His writing on the subject was absolutely brillant!! There really isn't any new under the sun.
IF you insulate the TOP of the hive there is no need for a top vent or moisture absorption. In fact they can both be detrimental. Its all about WHERE the due point is reached.
I like your methods David. One of the big mistakes I see beekeepers make is having both a wide open bottom entrance as well as a top entrance. Containing Heat is life saving for winter bees. As far as moisture, it’s not ever a problem as long as you can keep the top of the hive well insulated. I insulate both the top and bottom of my hives with a single 2” bottom entrance and rarely loose winter bees. Love the candy board idea.
Here in Vermont our winters have had a rollercoaster effect. Warm one day then cold the next. And it much more damp then I remember. I use solid bottom boards and cover the entrances. I've just started using candy boards and I'm very happy with them. My hives are exposed to the wind so I "wrap" them with 2" blue board and tape the joints. Then for a wind break I fill large trash bags with leaves and place them on the windy sides of the hives. The south facing entrance I only half cover so the bees can fly on warmer days.
What if it's really cold?would you wrap them? Last winter we had a hole month straight where it never got above 0 and about 2 months it never got above freezing
In my area, we average 100 rainy days and about 26 inches of rain between the middle of October and the end of February. I know a few things about moisture. Langstroth wrote his original book about 1840. When it was republished some years later, an entire chapter where he explains the importance of having 2" minimum wall thickness was omitted.
Hi David, I have a vaulted, lid it has 2 entrance circles on each side about 2" in diameter. There is a screen under the lid, so bee's cant get into the hive. Should I consider replacing the vaulted lid with a flat lid or insulate the vaulted lid, cover some or all of the holes for the winter? Thanks! Isaac
Single hive, first year keeping in Northern Alberta. Decided to build a small shed to move hive into based on moisture concern in winter. Keeping insulation to floor, and quilt box set above 3/8 x 3/8 top entrance. Planning to use candy board as well...nervous and hoping we're doing the right thing. Any experience with putting bees in a shed to winter?
David we cant all get your winter be kinds, i would love to but like many others i didn't get to them in time before they sold out this year... how do i keep moisture out without it?
Thanks David, we work with lots of moisture here in sw Oregon. Winter is when we get all our rain and heavy fog that lasts for week at a time. Yes a candy board type of moisture absorbing feed does help. Good idea!
I use a top feeder and fill it up with pure sugar. It absorbes moisture and the bees can just feed on it throughout the winter. Bear in mind i've only been beekeeping for a year or so, and my climate doesn't get too cold anyway.
Condensation forms where ever warm moisture air meets cold air. I don't use a regular top vent. I have frames that the top bars touch in my 2 by Lazutin hives with mineral wool insulated outer covers. The mineral wool has a wick effect. I use a floor vent/entrance for winter. I wrap and insulate sides. I did loose one hive last year. I think it got drifted over. And no sun in spring. There was still snow around it on Easter. It was partly on a stump so thermal bridging could of been factor too. Didn't have thermal break between stump and hive. Allowing frost to crawl into the hive. My hives are in the central u.p. of Michigan. I also foam board insulation on the sides and have nail boards over insulation for bear armor. Using double deep frames allows bees to move up. I tell people to leave the cross comb between frames on double deeps for winter. It allows bees to move up easier. Making them more like a double deep frame. So bees don't starve with honey frames above them. It's not uncommon to have frost into June and Sept where I am at. We can get 6 feet of snow in a weekend. My hive stands are pretty high off the ground at least 2 feet. Some are 6 feet in quadruped trees with a platform to work the hive.
If you’re going to use bales of hay why not cover them with a tarp. This way they will not get soaked and you still have a wind break. Staking and bricks to hold it down. Next year use it as a plant mulch as it will not be moldy or rotting wet.
If you don't insulate the top enough you will get moisture dropping down. And if you have the entrance on the very top you're losing all that top hot air, the heat dome.
Depends entirely where you are. On the other hand are really strong hive will never have trouble for the most part dealing with moisture.
There’s no doubt that insulation is the solution. You said that we could insulate out beehives like our houses, but that it can trap to much moisture. If you got moisture problem in our home, then the house has to little insulation.
Condensation will form where hot and cold air meets. If you insulate you don’t get any cold air and then no condensation.
I need to insulate my hives and I don’t have any moisture problem. The top of the hive is the most critical place. There I use 30cm of insulation, no venting. The bees make a heat-pocket in the upper part of the hive where it won’t condense! 😊
Two words: Condensing Hive. Look it up, stop beekeeping like it's the nineteenth century.
Beekeeping is about learning and education; folks keep bees (single deeps) in the subarctic with minimal losses using well insulated hives with NO upper ventilation. The science is sound. Happy beekeeping!
A single deep configuration has been proven not as effective compared to a double deep one in areas that experience occasional subzero temperatures.
Beekeeping is very regional, and also there are several different ways to keep Bees. Single brood chamber is not for everyone, double deeps are not for everyone. If a beekeeper finds a way to keep the bees alive, no matter the method they go about it, what else could you ask for.
I never use upper vents
I tilt hives forward. Thus moister runs down the. Sides of hive not on bees
New "backyard beekeeper" here with one hive...thanks for the tip ..that's a really good idea!
Thank you David for the energy that you put into all your video’s
What do feral bees in a thick tree trunk do? Just not take cleansing flights?
Bingo that question flies in the face of most beekeeping answers.....
Feral bees do not do well in the US due to many uncontrolled pest and diseases. We've had swarms move in to hallow trees around here, but they never survive winter. However, I've seen them take cleansing flights on warm winter days. Debris/dead sisters fall down further away from the colony in a tree. That's why I like screen bottom boards with an upper entrance for winter.
Good stuff David. I've changed up my winter beekeeping over the last few years. I transitioned to the insulated inner covers and have had success. Wind breaks are a great tool as well. Enjoyed the video.
Just started our season down in NZ dandelions and poppy are in bloom. Chopped mustard crop last week. Bees love the flowers. Had a suit mishap two nights ago gap in suit zipper inspected bees at night had about 25 bees in my mask stinging neck and face. Learning the hard way. Didn't get to sleep until 2
I've seen a lot of changes in beekeeping since I first started in 1985; and my overwintering management practices have changed dramatically over time. I'm not a Northern beekeeper but we have four months of hard winter here. Forty years ago double deeps without insulation or upper ventilation was the norm; and a 90%, or better, winter survival rate was the result.
However, today, worker bee longevity has been diminished for a plethora of reasons; which translates to smaller clusters over winter. And both common sense and recent research tell us that winter cold is a major stress factor with colonies. Summary: I currently have a 80% survival rate overwinter using a homemade polystyrene ten frame single brood box without any upper ventilation; the entrance is three inches long and three-quarters inches high with a wind guard to keep strong winds from entering.
The larger colonies get a bit humid but they appear to thrive in such conditions; by early spring these hives typically have huge brood nests, and their consumption of stores is remarkably low during winter. My conclusion is that high moisture levels are not a contributing factor for losing a colony.
Warm air rises, so does the winter bee kind board under the cover allow the warmth to escape at the top?
Remember, bees only heat each other through clustering. They have never heated the inside of their hive like we do our homes. In old literature beekeepers staggered their hive bodies in the north to allow stale wet air to leave the hive in the winter.
Great video!
I use a single deep with a Beesmart insulated top. with a medium on of that. I do feed through the insulate top. I wrap all but the bottom 3rd. I live in Michigan, which gets pretty cold. It's works great though, second season using this method
I noticed that metal, moisture and cold don’t make a good combo. Sort of like Ralphie and the flag pole. I even had bees stuck fast to my metal mouse guard. Just something to consider and maybe why they prefer your top entrance to a cold screen.
I love your candy boards, my first year hive made 3 hives after using it last winter. thanks for another great video.
Ralphie on the pole. I love that movie!! I read where they used a small suction tube inside the pole to make his tongue appear stuck.
Tilting hives forward and some sugar on top of newspaper has worked for years in my apiary.
My reasoning is never to use a top entrance .... if the bees are clustering at the top why would they fly ? ...seems contradictory so i just dont do it
Also in N Mich
Ask 10 beekeepers a bee keeping question and you'll get 20 different answers. I personally have greatly increased my overwintering success since I quit using moisture boxes and upper entrances on my colonies. I've since started placing 1.5" think foam boxes on my colonies (4 sides and top) turning them into Condensing Hives. In conjunction I have increased the number of mite treatments applied throughout the year. I live in Northern Michigan, your results may vary.
When can we order the candy boards? My temps are dropping!!
what if you wrap the N-E-W sides leaving S side unwrapped - then twice the amount of insulation on the top? I use 2" foam boards with bungee cords to keep it on. This is my 3rd winter - no loses so far (knock on wood) - but I think this year I might keep south side foam board off for the sunshine aspect. I only have 3 hives. Plus then I can use my Flir camera to see where the cluster is - before I couldn't due to insulation on all 4 sides.
The Flir cameras are cool to use on bee hives. Any insulation on top goes a long way. That's why decades ago we placed insulation on our Winter-Bee-Kind board.
Have you researched the "Condensing Hive"Theory as researched by Etiene Tardif, Mike Palmer, and Peggy Desanto?
Thanks for subscribing. Yes, and my friend William Hesbach, is the God-Father of condensing hives, fellow EAS Master Beekeeper recently was interviewed by Dr. David Peck about this as well. However, my best mentor on this subject is Lorenzo Langstroth. His writing on the subject was absolutely brillant!! There really isn't any new under the sun.
IF you insulate the TOP of the hive there is no need for a top vent or moisture absorption. In fact they can both be detrimental. Its all about WHERE the due point is reached.
Thank you!
I like your methods David.
One of the big mistakes I see beekeepers make is having both a wide open bottom entrance as well as a top entrance. Containing Heat is life saving for winter bees.
As far as moisture, it’s not ever a problem as long as you can keep the top of the hive well insulated. I insulate both the top and bottom of my hives with a single 2” bottom entrance and rarely loose winter bees. Love the candy board idea.
How does this Idea of moisture being a problem in say a tree with one entry.
Here in Vermont our winters have had a rollercoaster effect. Warm one day then cold the next. And it much more damp then I remember. I use solid bottom boards and cover the entrances. I've just started using candy boards and I'm very happy with them.
My hives are exposed to the wind so I "wrap" them with 2" blue board and tape the joints. Then for a wind break I fill large trash bags with leaves and place them on the windy sides of the hives. The south facing entrance I only half cover so the bees can fly on warmer days.
I like roofing or tar paper wrap. Works as a wind break and the black paper absorbs heat when it is sunny.
I use sheets of plexiglass. Cuts the wind but let's the sun warm the hive. Works great for me.
What if it's really cold?would you wrap them? Last winter we had a hole month straight where it never got above 0 and about 2 months it never got above freezing
Reverend langstroth is buried here. In Dayton Ohio. Next time you’re passing through on I70 you should stop in and see his Grave site.
So, what do you do for a wind break?
In my area, we average 100 rainy days and about 26 inches of rain between the middle of October and the end of February. I know a few things about moisture. Langstroth wrote his original book about 1840. When it was republished some years later, an entire chapter where he explains the importance of having 2" minimum wall thickness was omitted.
I have his original book with all the content in moisture control.
Greetings from North Central Wisconsin, we get Cold 🥶 up here in the Winter.
Great video Dave…..nice sweater too!
Hi David, I have a vaulted, lid it has 2 entrance circles on each side about 2" in diameter. There is a screen under the lid, so bee's cant get into the hive. Should I consider replacing the vaulted lid with a flat lid or insulate the vaulted lid, cover some or all of the holes for the winter? Thanks! Isaac
I read somewhere 50-60% humidity is the ideal, a cigar humidor pack might work @49%
Single hive, first year keeping in Northern Alberta. Decided to build a small shed to move hive into based on moisture concern in winter. Keeping insulation to floor, and quilt box set above 3/8 x 3/8 top entrance. Planning to use candy board as well...nervous and hoping we're doing the right thing. Any experience with putting bees in a shed to winter?
Can you put a salt in a bowl in the hive
Zest hive using thermal blocks is one solution ... Developed in Cornwall UK
I'm going to try it this way .. but I don't think I can get it in the UK so will probably have to make it up myself
Do you build your own hives or do you buy your hives? If so what brand or company do you prefer?
David we cant all get your winter be kinds, i would love to but like many others i didn't get to them in time before they sold out this year... how do i keep moisture out without it?
I'm doing all I can to convince my team to make more after Christmas. Never been done before, but I can be pretty convincing. Fingers crossed.
Thanks David, we work with lots of moisture here in sw Oregon. Winter is when we get all our rain and heavy fog that lasts for week at a time. Yes a candy board type of moisture absorbing feed does help. Good idea!
I use a top feeder and fill it up with pure sugar. It absorbes moisture and the bees can just feed on it throughout the winter. Bear in mind i've only been beekeeping for a year or so, and my climate doesn't get too cold anyway.
Condensation forms where ever warm moisture air meets cold air. I don't use a regular top vent. I have frames that the top bars touch in my 2 by Lazutin hives with mineral wool insulated outer covers. The mineral wool has a wick effect. I use a floor vent/entrance for winter. I wrap and insulate sides. I did loose one hive last year. I think it got drifted over. And no sun in spring. There was still snow around it on Easter. It was partly on a stump so thermal bridging could of been factor too. Didn't have thermal break between stump and hive. Allowing frost to crawl into the hive. My hives are in the central u.p. of Michigan. I also foam board insulation on the sides and have nail boards over insulation for bear armor. Using double deep frames allows bees to move up. I tell people to leave the cross comb between frames on double deeps for winter. It allows bees to move up easier. Making them more like a double deep frame. So bees don't starve with honey frames above them. It's not uncommon to have frost into June and Sept where I am at. We can get 6 feet of snow in a weekend. My hive stands are pretty high off the ground at least 2 feet. Some are 6 feet in quadruped trees with a platform to work the hive.
I'd love to order at least 10 candy boards from you, but every time you post them for sale, they sell out so fast😢
Alright #1
You are indeed 👏
If you’re going to use bales of hay why not cover them with a tarp. This way they will not get soaked and you still have a wind break. Staking and bricks to hold it down. Next year use it as a plant mulch as it will not be moldy or rotting wet.
Because the bees need to fight if necessary in the winter. The tarp stops that from happening.