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@@jonathanlegg4308 The point I was making was quite straight forward. Matty Allen wrote that Rick Morgan had not sailed on a Leander class frigate in the 1970s. The ship named HMS Achilles that was in service during this period was a Leander class Frigate.
Great vid! I had been on most of the RN Ships and worked on Minerva, my first Ship, Rothesay, Plymouth [went on Sea Trials on her] Pheobe, getting her ready for the Falklands working 12 hour day shifts! Hermione my last ship and Chathams Last one Best one! I used to go to all the Navy Days except Rosyth! I went there before Chatham closed with a view of Transfering there! Too bleak and cold up there!
I was a sea cadet in the town of Ajax Ontario, which was named after the HMS Ajax of River Plate fame. Ajax is on Lake Ontario and the Leander class frigate Ajax came for a port visit around 1978. My sea cadet corps marched through the town with the crew of Ajax and we had a week of activities with the crew of the ship.
A bit before the Canadian visit..........served 2nd commission HMS AJAX..........arguably the happiest and best ship I served in during my 12 years in RN.........."Give us an A".
First commission Sirius (F40) 1966-68, inc attending the coronation of the King of Tonga, 4th July 1967. During a 4,5" gun shoot, both barrels were mistaken fired as I passed uner them on my way to film the benchmarks., Minerva (F45) leaving just before our future king joined, Bacchante (F69) attending the US bicentennial 4th July 1976. During the Cod War I witnessed and photographed HMS Scylla deliberately colliding with IGB Odinn. Happy days!
I served on HMS Apollo during the Cod War with Iceland and afterwards on HMS Juno under Captains George Brewer and Ted Anson. Served under Ted again on HMS Ark Royal during her last commission before being retired. So many memories.
Please also check out our Rothesay class video for the President class frigates of the South African Navy. We hope you will enjoy it. th-cam.com/video/ILyjImG9-DU/w-d-xo.html
,served on HMS Leander in the 70s last ship to be rammed in the Cod wars of Iceland collision with Icelandic gunboat Ver long way home to gus with no bow
In my 22 years serving in the Royal Navy as a marine engineer my favourite ship was the Leander class HMS Diomede F16 earning my first medal for the Falkland conflict. Y160 steam at. Boilers.
@@tee2899 So you would've been kicked out of 3F to make way for the middies on the Windies cruise? Did you go to Helsinki to shadow a Warsaw Pact exercise out of the Baltic and up the Norwegian Sea before that?
Good to see them operated perfectly until today. But still, they need to rest now (for the remaining Leanders) Indonesia is going to replace them with FREMMs and Arrowhead 140s
The frigates of the SA Navy were actually the Rothesay class, which we will cover in a different video. We are still gathering suitable video footage to make the video. If you have video footage of President-class frigates or know where to find them, please share them with us.
The key to understanding the thinking behind the Leander class frigates that they were designed for protecting convoys in the Atlantic Ocean against air or submarine attack. For that reason they were not required to attain a high maximum speed, but instead to be able to maintain a relatively high rate of speed while operating in bad weather, which is not the same thing. Ships that are designed to go very fast cannot necessarily maintain that high rate of speed in heavy sea conditions in the open ocean, just as racing cars cannot necessarily maintain their high speed while driving off-road.
Well put. You got good high speed when needed balanced against good endurance. The five-bladed screws also gave much better thrust and reduced cavitation (unless one rang down full ahead) I suggest diesels or a CODOG type would not have worked as well.
Chilean Navy legendary frigates Leander Condell, Lynch, Zenteno y Baquedano.... estuve en RIMPAC 2004 (Hawaii)con la PFG 07 Lynch, dejando en alto nuestro buque !!!
When I was in the U.S. Navy, we did exercises with one of the Chilean ships, the Lynch. If I recall correctly, the Lynch was equipped with the Alouette lll helicopter. Thanks for this video.
Importance of AC is a bigger concern for operational in tropical waters like in Indonesian waters. Lack of AC would turn the crew cabins into microwaves.
I spent 6 months in the summer of 1974 on a tanker in the Gulf without AC. It was killer, in the engine room it was usually around 65c and on deck 45c.
Serving in the Royal Navy in the last two decades of the Cold War, many of us thought service in a Leander class frigate, a highly successful type and workhorse of the Fleet, a badge of honour (HMS Jupiter 1977-78 for me).
I did serve on board ship leander class ship. I was in charge of radar section and later sonar section. I found that the redar 992, 966 are best of there kind hardy facing ang major issue with these system but the sonar 184PI was very hard to handle Good old days!!!!
the Leander Class Frigates are one of the greatest post war era of surface warship that has ever built and sone few of this type of combat vessels as still in the active service until now
My stepdad was on F70 Apollo during the cod wars, I remember it well, with my mum glued to the TV for news on what was going on, he had been out of the Navy just long enough to avoid reserve duty when the Falklands kicked off and we had to go and retreive them
@@well-blazeredman6187 due to recent Russian and chineese aggression the government has announced a new water pistol is to be added to 3 of the class from 2035 onwards
The first five minutes are a good intro to post war RN frigate evolution. For the RNZN/RAN the type 12 lacked range. It was Suva to Pearl Harbour at the max. The Whitby was built with a cruising turbine so it could just cross the Atlantic in a broken back WW3, which facing opposition might mean an escort travelling 3250/5500 miles. The ability to just cross the Atlantic at 10 knots on a cruising turbine was seen as too ' emvarassing' and unrealistic in the age of British policy and view in the age of nuclear deterence and the Rothesays were built like the late T21 for 2 days sprint and drift in the GIUK Atlantic gap or running with carriers and fleet tankers, constantly refueling East of Suez. They are not convoy escorts
Di indonesia kapal kelas ahmad yani tersisa 5 karena kapal ke 6 kri slamet riyadi telas pensiun dari tugasnya dan meriam yang ada didepannya dipakai lagi untuk uji tembak di paiton
Would be interesting to see what type of video you can make on Oslo class. That class have an interesting development story, Oslo class is based on a heavily modified dealey class, but at some point they considered basing it on Fletcher class destroyers. The Terne III ASW systems alone is also interesting.
Please also check out our Rothesay class video for the President-class frigates of the South African Navy. We hope you will enjoy it. th-cam.com/video/ILyjImG9-DU/w-d-xo.html
an excellent and we'll researched article. however, I am sure that you have much more information about class. that you had to leave out due to time constraints. perhaps you could create a multi part series for weapons that have served as long as the Leander class. covering all aspects of service.
We just called 'em all River-class (as did Janes) but the hulls were Whitby and Leander. But, heck, can't use the 'Pom' nomenclatures. We're Srtayan mate but served oft with the RN-ers especially out of Singers and Hongkers. Great times and great boats.
The leander class frigat design was bought by the Netherlands to be licensed build first thing the dutch did was ripping out most of the briitsh designed equipment for their own . Creating a ship more capable , 1,5 knots faster , 500 nautical miles increase in range . a complement of 180 instead of the 260 of the british . 8 harpoons vs the 4 exocet , and still in active service with the indonesian navy. 60 years later.
I'll take your word for the 1.5 kts and 500 nm, but complement and armament varied by type - the Exocet and Ikara varients had very specific roles, whereas the original-form gun Leander excelled in its role as a multi-prupose frigate. A bit like the original frigates in the time of Cochrane, say.
@@nemo6686 Well the dutch ripped out the boiler system. put in automated versions , removed all british electronics and put in dutch holland signaal and Sewaco equipment . the dutch van speijk class . was in many ways more modern and advanced. For the most part the Dutch limited their changes to the Leander design to a wholesale replacement of the original British electronics and electrical equipment by those from Dutch manufacturers. Hollandse Signaalapparaten supplied the entire electronics suite. Specifically their LW-02 long-range air-surveillance radar, the DA-02 medium-range air/surface search radar and the M45 combined radar and optical fire control system for the 4.5 in (110 mm) guns. The Dutch HSA M44 radar/visual director for the Seacat anti-aircraft missiles could automatically target in elevation and bearing and allowed the single Seacat launcher on the British ships to be increased to two launchers on the Dutch ships, each with their own director.[1] Mid-life modernization Beginning in December 1976 each of the Dutch ships was given a mid-life modernization that took about two years to finish. The twin 4.5-inch turret was replaced by a single OTO Melara 76 mm gun and two quadruple mounts for Harpoon anti-ship missiles were fitted abaft of the funnel. The Mk 10 Limbo ASW mortar was replaced by a pair of triple Mk 32 torpedo launchers, one mount on each side of the hangar, and its mount plated over so the flight deck could be increased to allow the ship to carry the larger Westland Lynx helicopter in lieu of the Wasp carried earlier. The removal of the variable-depth sonar from the quarterdeck to the interior of the stern also allowed more room for the flight deck.[2] The electronics were also upgraded, the LW-02 radar was exchanged for a LW-03 and the DA-02 was replaced by a DA-05 radar. Most importantly an automated combat management system, SEWACO V, was fitted to aid the ship's captain in decision making. Its power plant was also extensively automated. All told these changes allowed the crew to decrease in size from 254 to about 175 which allowed greatly increased standards of habitability.
@@marcusfranconium3392 Like I say, I don't dispute your assertions about Dutch improvements, though I'm not familiar with them myself. Of course, had they been willing to spend the money the British could have made the exact same improvements, though I suspect politics would always be the determining factor. My point though was that the differing variants made different degrees of contribution: the Ikara and Exocet variants were essentially designed to be components of a large task force, with the Soviet Union as the likely adversary. Whether they ever performed that role is debatable; the Falklands was the nearest but, after the sinking of the Belgrano the Argentine fleet remained in port and air attack became the overwhelming threat. If the Ikara and Exocet variants were designed for integrated fleet actions, with Britain's Cold War role to keep the Soviet navy bottled-up, the gun variant retained the flexibility to fulfill the RN's older function of maintaining trade routes and order in a far-flung empire. The empire may have almost entirely dissolved, but the responsibilities don't disappear with sovereignty and a rocket-launched anti-submarine torpedo isn't much use in quelling piracy or assisting the civil authorities on a Caribbean island. The addition of Sea Harpoon is an obvious improvement, and the 76mm gun retains much of the usefulness mentioned above, but the Netherlands' operational requirements dictate their choices; one of the gun Leander's roles was providing naval gunfire support, and I suggest twin 4.5" guns are far superior in that role to a single 76mm. The Limbo mortar system is a bit of a conundrum - a result of the RN's convoy experience in WWII; on the one hand, the old-school technology's cheaper, more rugged and smaller than a Mk 32 torpedo, which means you can carry more of them and fire them off more liberally; on the other hand, is it as effective as a Mk 32, and does the Mk 32 every time its launched make you worry about shooting your own bows off? As to helicopters, obviously the Lynx is far superior, but I'll always have a certain affection for the Wasp for the amazement that such an insubstantial craft could carry a nuclear weapon.
@@nemo6686 The thing was the dutch navy needed to replace some ww2 build canon class destroyer escorts . and they wanted a quick solution preventing long design proces. So they bought the licence for the hulls and whent full own production . Indonesia still operates the former dutch ships. The experience gained and midlife updates got them to build standardised ships. giving birth to the S-class (standard frigates) who in their own right became a succes. building 10 for the dutch navy +2 airdefence variants .2 for the greek navy , an 8 hulls for the german navy . Dutch build ships tend to be in service a long long time after beeing decomisiond the from dutch service. . The last dutch build cruisers that where layed down in 1939 only got decomisiond in 2017 . ( its now a museum ship of peru)
@@marcusfranconium3392 I don't question Dutch prowess in shipbuilding, an industry that, alas, has suffered too much political interference and strife in Britain - though I think what remains is improving. The performance of the new Queen Elizabeth class will show if I'm right. But what you deem a success in the S-class also applies to the Leanders, only more so: a reliable, versatile hull, adaptable to multiple weapons systems, operated by multiple nations, with a long service life. That the Dutch were willing to spend money to improve it, or that upgrades have contributed to its longevity don't detract from that.
They are big for a frigate they really are bordering on being a destroyer with a little bit more armament certainly with the Sea wolf missile system, which I worked on, they could almost be considered destroyers.
The problem is they aren't Destroyers and the Leander's were almost certainly too small. That was recognised even when the RN ordered the Leander's in 1960, adding Asroc and Tartar was seen as needed even then as was a larger helicopter or two, but impossible without expansion to 3500 light. For Pacific use in the 1960s even 1970s s two turret design was needed RAN /RNZN or the RN East of Suez. That was US Policy for Vietnam and Pacific and not just for reliable GFS. The RN/ UK considered following the T15 conversions with the conversion of 20 Battle class to first rate a/s frigates in the same period and the US Fram 1 Gearing conversion. In many ways the T41, 61 diesels , Tribsl T81 and Daring were 20 years ahead of their time in a general RN/ RNZN view as more compact electronics, processing and fire control to make them work only became available from the late 1960s. The T41 was recommended to the RAN in 1948 when neither the T11/12 existed. The Type 41/ 61 is really s diesel powered utility version of the G type two Turret steam turbine Daring destroyer with the the same two twin low mounted Mk 6 turrets, and Mountbatten's J class destroyer bow and scaled down Stern of HMS York a 1928 , 8 inch cruiser the half sister of Exeter. According to Freidman the legend of the Type 12 drawn in 1950 was a fast drawn derivative of the evolved diesel type 41, powered by a steam turbine. It is in Norman Friedman's view a diesel frigate with a steam turbine system, fitted in.
@@frederickmiles327 Yes they aren't (or rather weren't) destroyers but they were nice ship to be in, and big for a frigate. I've also been in the type 42's and I found them to be more cramped than the Leander, especially aft. To be honest I really liked both . Can't go into details as I've signed the official secrets act several times but they were all lovely ships , we had some Americans with us and they didn't want to leave to go back to their own ships.
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Great video , I served in the Royal New Zealand Navy for 6 and 1/2 years 1980 to 1986 and served on two Leander class frigates , HMNZS Canterbury F421 and HMNZS Wellington F69 They were truly great warships, Thank you for making this video.
@@johnstirling6597 Both of them were. Canterbury in Deep water cove and Wellington in Wellington. Canterbury benefitted from some careful planning and preparation to sink her properly and is well-preserved, while Wellington is now a pile of rubble due to wave action. Also, the Leander frigate HMNZS Waikato is sunk just outside Tutukaka and is a great dive, although the bow is torn off under the bridge and has moved I guess 75 metres or more now away from the rest of the ship. Southland was scrapped. Waikato still has it's gun, Wellington still has its gun, Canterbury had its gun removed to become a gate guard at Philomel and Southland had the antisubmarine suite instead of the gun.
@@davesherry5384 Thanks for that. Born and grew up in NZ but left 40 years ago, I recall as a kid in the 60s going to a public day at Devonport and being shown around one of the Leander Frigates and then sometime in the 80s seeing a video of one of them being sunk for an artificial reef .
I served on Bacchante 81-82 got back from the Falklands in August of 82, picked up a bunch of kiwis from ascension Island on the way home, we arrived in portsmouth and basically handed the ship over to the NZ Navy, she was refitted and became the Wellington. It was the Wellington that was sunk as an artificial reef approximately 16 years ago. I believe that there is a documentary on the sinking.
My dad served in one of these, here in the Chilean Navy of the mid '80s, the PFG-07 "Admiral Lynch". Today the old Lynch is still active, albeit now in service in the Ecuadorian Navy as the BAE FM-02 "Morán Valverde". My memories of the Lynch in particular are hazy because I was only a few years old when my dad took me onboard the frigate for a day (I think it was Christmas of '85) but the Leander class had a long and distinguished career in the Chilean Navy, with the "Lynch" and her twin the "Condell" being among the main fleet, alongside the County class cruisers/destroyers it also had. They later bought two more, the HMS F-12 "Achilles" and HMS F-72 "Ariadne", which were renamed to PF-08 "Zenteno" and PF-09 "Baquedano" respectively. Because the "Zenteno" and "Baquedano" were purchased second-hand from the Royal Navy, these did not have a long service with the Chilean Navy as the "Condell class" ("Condell" and "Lynch" were basically Batch 2 units newly built for the Chilean Navy, with their own specifications, which made them actually an offshoot of the original Leander class), but the fact that the Chilean Navy decided to buy them regardless speaks favorably about the whole Leander class.
@Leadblast I was aboard PFG Lynch when she arrived at Valparaiso for the first time, having joined her at Punta Arenas. She was greeted by a welcoming committee and a military band. A very moving experience. At the time I worked for the UK Plessey company. Because she was on her maiden voyage being delivered to Chile from the shipbuilders Yarrow in Glasgow, many of the crew had bought stuff to bring back to Chile that were prized in Chile such as bicycles and whisky, so every spare space on the ship was full of interesting things. 🙂
I served in two of these, HMS Minerva and HMS Diomede. My lasting memory is of them being happy ships. Of course a big ship's company by todays standards but people knew their 'part of ship' and got on well. Great memories!
No portholes, chum and you are right. The Leanders had probably the best pre-wetting systems and anti-NBCD citadels of the time. We call them scuttles and forecastle is pronounced fo'c'sle. Those niggles a side, congratulations on an outstanding coverage of truly great ships (you should look at the Daring-class DDs, too. They and the Whitby/Leanders made a formidable force). The RAN had four Whitby and two Leanders as DEs and they traveled world-wide. Mainly with the FESR under SEATO and frequently came up against the Chinese and Russians. The Whitbys were also deployed during Konfrontasi with Indonesia and we frequently indeed commonly exercised with our RN and RNZN counterparts. You will note they all were fitted with the LWO2 air search radar as well Type 973 and 975 radars; sonar was Type 170 and 177. The LWO was mounted atop the foremast in the Whitbys and became known as the 'key'. This did produce significant heeling and was later moved aft all same the Leanders. Armament was a twin 4.5-inch, twin Bofors 40mm replaced by the Seacat system, twin Mk 10 Limbo mortars, Ikara ASW missile system and retrograde twin three-barelled ASW torpedoes. Brilliant in any seaway (superior to the Perry FFGs we had and the Anzacs) and superb to 'drive', noting the hull is nothing more than a large box to put stuff in, as Australia is seeking new frigates I don't know why we cant build new hulls and then equip them with new systems.
Crazy to think these ships were replaced by the Type 21 Amazon class frigates, the Leanders would've survived the hits that finished those ships during the Falkands war.
No, the overwhelming consensus is the bomb hits taken by the T21 Ambushcade and HMS Ardent would have sunk any RN Type 12 or Leander. In the RN and Commonwealth navies there are many who think the Leander the smooth ride and effective frigate, but of those who actually served in the T21s many thought they were great. Some dismiss that as more spacious comfortable officer cabins and the always exploited in the late 1970s and early 80s ability to take the frigate out of harbour at speed 32 knots, blowing the mind of the watching chicks and combined with the RN officer uniform providing the sort of elite display most likely to get every 17/18 year old females clothes off fast. But it was more than that Admiral J R Hill said of the Type 21 they offered less rebundancy or necessary back up systems in radars, wiring etc than any post 1948 RN frigate but the crews of the T21 worshiped the design and against all read and logic believed the 21 could do anything. And if course Captain Hugo White finally given command of a T21 at 44 half way thru the Falklands war, took it from Plymouth to the Falklands in less than a week, flat out at 31k all the way other the fuel top ups at Gibraltar, Ancension and a RN tanker Rearmed with a 4/62 N5, 2 L70 , Phalanx and a Seasprite the T21 looks more reasonable than an over complex FFG7 which offered little by the standard of DDG Adams or Hobart or an Anzac which is essentially a rough riding German export frigate possibly successfully upgraded Into some sort of surface or AA patrol ship off North Australia but in no ways performs it's claimed role in replacing the T12, Leander, Rivet thru the Australian Blight, Bass Straight and Foveaux straight if the escort route is forced South by Backfires, Blackjacks or 8H Badgers with the cruise missiles based at Cam Rahn Bay or the Solomon's The Anzacs are not global combat ships and are not really designed for even warfare against diesel Kilo or Song subs.
Very cool. The Royal New Zealand Navy operated five Leander-class frigates back in the day. The HMNZS Southland F104, HMNZS Otago F111, HMNZS Wellington F69, HMNZS Waikato F55 and HMNZS Canterbury F421. Sadly, all are gone now, with Southland and Otago being sold for scrap in the late 1980's and the remaining three sunk as artificial reefs/dive attractions. It's a bloody shame one couldn't have been saved as a museum ship. They were replaced by just two ANZAC-class frigates; the HMNZS Te Kaha F77 and HMNZS Te Mana F111.
@@sloo6425 yes southland. I had mates that served on her and in heavy seas they reconned you could look down the main passage way down delow deck and see the ship twisting as it went over waves. So i believe they put concrete in to brace the ship up a bit
Finished my naval career serving on F70 HMS Apollo. Great ship great crew. Last saw her leaving Portsmouth in 1976 as I left the service going to Portsmouth Harbour railway station.
My first ship was a type 3 Leander, HMS Hermione She was the last ship to be refitted in Chatham Dockyard and came out with the Exocet & Sea Wolf conversion. If I’d stuck with Leanders and not been transferred to big ships, I may well have done my 22…
Gòod frigates if they never went to close in falklands they would have caught tge skyhawks and killed them RN should have kept the big carriers with phantom and later f 18 with destroyer frigate escort would have taken falklands sooner less loses if any.
My first ship in the RN was a batch 1 ikara conversion Hms Galatea(F18). My pit(bed) was in the mess square(3EZ)and I had more late nights than I wanted to. The accommodation in comparison to the type 21 frigates was positively “Nelsonion” however, I had a great time during a Far East tour in 1980 and have some great memories 😊
A marketing tool for frigate export sales and crew recruitment. The Seacat aimer was usually a 19 year old junior ratings. Seacat allowed the RN and commonwealth navies to pretend they had equipped with modern and effective tech and mislead their government paymasters and Treasury they were getting a bargain. Many old sailors and officers viewed the Seacat as just a rocket and the Leander as absurdly underarmed with a twin manually loaded 4.5 ( the loading is not automatic and the gun can not be fired automatically by a radar/ Computer -- detection/ analysis ( IFF)/ tracking and prioritisation / auto loading right ammunition/ firing and is really two slow firing with a fire rate of say 18 rpm X 2 for 2 min and 10-12rpm for say another 8 min. 2 Oerilikons are a junk bashing gesture, surely 2/L60 and 2/L70 might have been very much better for the Confrontation and the Falklands.
What on earth could Seacat have actually engaged it had a speed of about 600 mph or less, max height elevation of O.9 kilometres and a range of 3.5 miles (5km+), and it had to be collected into joystick guidance by an operator using binoculars or local radar a minimum of about 400 metres from the ship. The warhead seemed too small to be effective and it seemed to lack a radar proximity fuse. First Lord Mountbatten argued it was equivalent to a 300lb 8 inch shell for use against FPB and it was so accurate that the joystick operator could put it through a window half a mile away. What real target could it hit ??- It was argued that Seacat was a deterrent to Soviet Helix helicopter or May 38 MPA ( P3 Orion copy), flying close to RN frigates. I would have thought 40 mm Bofors or the twin 30 mm Oerilikons, fitted too late after the Falklands more useful, and proved so in the confrontation. During the controversial RNZN Muroroa deployment in 1973 Otago F111 a T12 and Leander, F421 Canterbury (1971) yarrow were constantly harrassed by French Neptune P-2, making low passes, both sides using engaged serious electronic warfare with the RNZN frigates running in the intermediate zone . The RAN flagship HMAS Supply a tanker providing observation for the Australian media and officers and to some extent the world and US regarded it as an Australian led deployment The RNZN frigates put live Seacats on the launchers to hopefully discourage the French P2 Neptune's but seemed to regard the Frigates 4.5 turrets with shells in their loading trays -as the main deterence to the 3 French Corvettes and possibility of French boarding parties and had Mk 46/44 in the Mk 32 tubes -. Source Lt Cdr G.Wright Ret, XO of Otago - several books on the RNZN deployment.
@@TheWareek How did the RAN rate Ikara. .My lecturer Richard Kennaway said when given a photo of Ikara in 1981 on its launcher on HMS Bristol. That the RNZN couldn't possibly buy that a Ikara Leader ( HMS Dido) Hmnzs Southland, it Ikara is a Polaris missile. It is of course claimed the RN version of Ikara was never NCB fitted but how else, could the inaccuracy ever be overcome
@@TheWareek Seacat it was claimed by RN and RNZN crews could be used against surface targets, but never officially. It was however claimed Limbo was really a big gun/ Howitzer which could be directed against FPB and surfaced subs.I would have thought the Erika version of the Bofors a/s rocket launcher with a range 0.9 km to 4.5 km might be effective against a surfaced or submerging sub 2 miles or 4km way or FPB and a much better solution than a 1km range Limbo.
I served on HMAS Torrens in the early eighties it was a great ship. Its ashamed that you didn't mention the other Australian DE's Derwent, Yarra, Stuart & Parramatta based off the Type 12M but more powerful as they were originally armed with Twin 4.5inch, Seacat, Ikara ASW system and Limbo mortar.
@@andrewstackpool4911 That rivalry is part of the navy. I remember the story of an RN sailor who was one of the three survivors of HMS Hood which blew up with almost 2,000 killed and he was picked up by an RN destroyer and his first comment was to ask the name of the destroyer. When he was told the name he replied with disgust JUST MY BLOODY LUCK, PICKED UP BY A BLOODY SHIP FROM CHATHAM NAVAL BASE.
@@richarddickson747 You with respect are telling me? Here I was talking about how officers and senior sailors focused that rivalry for stuff like ship appearances. I was one of em and served for almost 50 years. SWAN and TORRENS tended to be a tad different as Leanders vice Whitney's but working together we were one. Up Top rivalry came down to RAN vs RN vs RNZN vs USN vs ??? Bottom line Type 12 people regardless of hull type were a special breed. I would add. In the Vietnam/SEATO/FESR period had the CHICOM and/or CCCCP balloon gone up we had about three days to live. That's something navy history overlooks. We all worked hard, played hard and partied hard. Then the various Type 12s were the best of the best. No matter the Navy.
My first time at sea was in the original HMS Leander, F109. She was an old lady by then, mid 80s. I was in my mid teens and I was horribly seasick! Our mess was aft, underneath where the anti sub mortars were. I got to fly in the Wasp helo which was brilliant for a kid.
An excellent presentation of one of my favourite RN ships ( the other being the County Class. ) Kudos to you also for mentioning the TV series "Warship" - a superb series that still has no equal.
This takes me back, when my family lived in Gosport (father in MoD) and you'd see Leander's moored in Portsmouth dockyard and in summer when the "Navy Days" happened (naval base open day) you could get to look around the ships (frigates, destroyers, minesweepers etc) and also some of the workshops in the dockyard (ended up training & working there before the defence cutbacks).
Some of the ABs used to volunteer to stand at the bottom of the ladders to assist Lady Visitors during Navy Days - and they started putting canvas dodgers on the undersides of ladders to frustrate this.
I served on three of these. Penelope F127, Andromeda F57 and Galatea F18. Time of my life. As a young bloke on one of these in the 70s much fun was had!!!!!!!
I served in 4x Type 12 frigates in the Australian Navy in the 1980/90s when they were coming to their end of life. They were the most weatherly and toughest old girls I ever went to sea in. I was a Principal Warfare Officer for much of that time and we also often had the advantage of a manual ops room when automated ops rooms in other ships failed and we had to take over command of a task unit or an individual action! Fun times I will never forget. This video is so vivid and accurate (exempt the plummy accents) it almost makes me cry. Nostalgia hey!!
I was lucky to visited KRI Oswald Siahaan one of the the Ahmad Yani-class during local Naval Festival back in 2015 in Surabaya, Indonesia. This ship is still have strong presence, although it will retired soon
Great ships. Served in two in my time, HMS Arethusa (Ikara) as Navigator 1983-1986 and then Euryalus (Ikara) as Ops Officer/PWO(U) when she was doing Dartmouth Training Cruises 1988-1989. Much of my time in Arethusa was spent in either Stanavforlant or Stanavformed which was brilliant fun but hard work. Happy, happy days.
3:28 comment is wrong. The forecastle kink was primarily due to the hull design being originally for the Type 12 which had the standby diesel generators in the bow, and they needed head space. Although the Leanders moved the generators down into the hull, they kept the original hull shape. On the Type 12s you will often see black staining from the diesel exhausts under the raised forecastle.
Thank you for an interesting video. Some comments: 1 - As you said, the Leander and Rothesay/Whitby classes used a standard hull. So much so, that HMS Leander was laid down as HMS Weymouth of the Roth/Whit class. 2 - Two more users of this hull were Salisbury class aircraft direction frigate and Leopard class anti-aircraft frigate. 3 - 1967-8 HMS Penelope was detailed as a trials ship for a certain sonar upon which I was working as an MoD scientific civil servant. The crew hated this duty in general and us in particularly, calling us "Bloody scientists" to our faces and hindering the trials by such devices as turning up 2 days late and thrashing the ship at 26 kts into a 30 foot Atlantic swell so as to abort our tests and arrive in port early on the Friday for a long weekend. 4 - The TV series "Warship" was set on board the fictitious "HMS Hero" (an obvious name for a member of the Leander class, given the Greek legend of Hero and Leander). There's a jolly tale of how the ship was buzzed by a big Soviet reconnaissance plane which flew slowly past, evidently filming her, presumably because they thought it must be a ship they didn't know about! From Wiki: Seven Leander-class frigates played the role of HMS Hero and for continuity, all were repainted with the pennant number F42 of HMS Phoebe, the main warship used for filming. The others were HMS Danae, HMS Dido, HMS Diomede, HMS Hermione, HMS Juno and HMS Jupiter.
As an engine fitter apprentice saw the launch of Danae and worked on the build of Scylla. Did the last ever refit of Penelope before Devonport Royal Dockyard was privatised. Worked on many Leander class but my favourite was Penelope, to see her return to Devonport after the Falklands war was quite emotional
When I was working at the missile base at Aberporth in South Wales I heard stories of HMS Penelope shooting down a 4 a half inch artillery shell with the Sea wolf missile system.
I was a junior stoker on board when you were on board I went to a reunion a couple of weeks ago With Bill stubley, Ian Wilkinson and Jim Duncan Our old MEO Jan Grundy passed away a couple of years ago
Great post thanks. Served on HMNZS Southland F104 (ex Dido) Ikara Leander, HMNZS Canterbury F421 Broad beam 45 Leander, and HMNZS Otago F111 Type 12. Fantastic ships, many great memories.
Served in three of these in the RAN, HMAS Derwent, HMAS Swan and HMAS Stuart. Dammed things rolled on a wet sponge or even in Dry Dock 🤣🤣. Loved them all.
What a grand video to get suggested YT, Hm the centurions of the sea some call the Type 12 Frigates serving up until now. Hm I hope the game (WT) adds a Type 12I soon to bolster support to their cousin the Type 12 (F77) & slight distance cousin the Type 41, As the modifications of the Leander were helpful to their roles historically an if added too. I kinda hope that prior to scraping the last of the Type 12I's one or some gets preserved an or sold back to Britain to be made a museum ship over their in it's original configuration as they were the workhorses of nations.
I served in Jupiter, Penelope and Hermione, and have fond memories of my time spent on board. They were a nightmare when on Gulf Patrol....the AC on board really was hopeless.....Great ships and great memories.
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As a US sailor I had the honor of sailing on HMS Achilles for 3 days in the late 70s. The entire crew was great. Wish I was that young again :)
Wrong ship
@@mattyallen3396 Troll
@@mattyallen3396 HMS Achilles was a Leander class frigate
@@simpsonchen7189 What point are you making?
@@jonathanlegg4308 The point I was making was quite straight forward. Matty Allen wrote that Rick Morgan had not sailed on a Leander class frigate in the 1970s. The ship named HMS Achilles that was in service during this period was a Leander class Frigate.
I served on HMS Leander as cpo caterer from 1963 to1965 happy days! Now coming 92 years of age!
I served on the hr.ms. van Speijk F802 a Dutch Leander class frigate 1980-1982. This ship is always on my mind.
HMS Juno 1st commission for me, 16 years old and an around the world trip, a great crew and great memories.
She was used as Hero for a time
Great vid! I had been on most of the RN Ships and worked on Minerva, my first Ship, Rothesay, Plymouth [went on Sea Trials on her] Pheobe, getting her ready for the Falklands working 12 hour day shifts! Hermione my last ship and Chathams Last one Best one! I used to go to all the Navy Days except Rosyth! I went there before Chatham closed with a view of Transfering there! Too bleak and cold up there!
I was a sea cadet in the town of Ajax Ontario, which was named after the HMS Ajax of River Plate fame. Ajax is on Lake Ontario and the Leander class frigate Ajax came for a port visit around 1978. My sea cadet corps marched through the town with the crew of Ajax and we had a week of activities with the crew of the ship.
A bit before the Canadian visit..........served 2nd commission HMS AJAX..........arguably the happiest and best ship I served in during my 12 years in RN.........."Give us an A".
First commission Sirius (F40) 1966-68, inc attending the coronation of the King of Tonga, 4th July 1967. During a 4,5" gun shoot, both barrels were mistaken fired as I passed uner them on my way to film the benchmarks., Minerva (F45) leaving just before our future king joined, Bacchante (F69) attending the US bicentennial 4th July 1976. During the Cod War I witnessed and photographed HMS Scylla deliberately colliding with IGB Odinn. Happy days!
This is when we had a Navy I spent time on both type 81 tribal frigate as well as two Leander and one type 22 tribal was the best sea keeper
I served on the fighting F47 HMS Danea from 1991 until she was sold to Ecuador. The happiest ships in the Royal Navy. Great memories.
The Term Limbo was never used by the RN It was MORTAR Mk10.The term Porthole is never used they are scuttles
I served on HMS Apollo during the Cod War with Iceland and afterwards on HMS Juno under Captains George Brewer and Ted Anson. Served under Ted again on HMS Ark Royal during her last commission before being retired. So many memories.
My first ship was a Leander, HMS Juno.
South African Navy also operated 3 Leanders
Please also check out our Rothesay class video for the President class frigates of the South African Navy. We hope you will enjoy it.
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Thank you very interesting - i stand corrected. 😀@@WeaponDetective
,served on HMS Leander in the 70s last ship to be rammed in the Cod wars of Iceland collision with Icelandic gunboat Ver long way home to gus with no bow
In my 22 years serving in the Royal Navy as a marine engineer my favourite ship was the Leander class HMS Diomede F16 earning my first medal for the Falkland conflict. Y160 steam at. Boilers.
Old ships, 3F mess, 86-88
@@tee2899 S&S or WAFU? Presumably you joined after the Windies in 86, when the Dartmouth sprogs had given the mess back?
@@nemo6686 s&s, killick chef, joined around May or June 86. I'm still in touch with Lstwd Michael Crawford and ex LS Rob Smith and AB Mark Leeming
@@tee2899 So you would've been kicked out of 3F to make way for the middies on the Windies cruise? Did you go to Helsinki to shadow a Warsaw Pact exercise out of the Baltic and up the Norwegian Sea before that?
@@nemo6686 I joined just as you got back from Helsinki. We moved into the taz apes mess down aft
Good to see them operated perfectly until today. But still, they need to rest now (for the remaining Leanders)
Indonesia is going to replace them with FREMMs and Arrowhead 140s
Gawd, I thought they had retired them a decade ago.
@@uberbeeg ikr. There's still no clarity how long will the class operated
Bacot lu
@@25.muh.siswadibudiartodani88 Wow.
Was privileged to have worked on X3 Leander class frigates in SA. Great ship!
The frigates of the SA Navy were actually the Rothesay class, which we will cover in a different video. We are still gathering suitable video footage to make the video. If you have video footage of President-class frigates or know where to find them, please share them with us.
I remember this Fragatas in my country, Chile, Now in Ecuador Navy.
The key to understanding the thinking behind the Leander class frigates that they were designed for protecting convoys in the Atlantic Ocean against air or submarine attack. For that reason they were not required to attain a high maximum speed, but instead to be able to maintain a relatively high rate of speed while operating in bad weather, which is not the same thing. Ships that are designed to go very fast cannot necessarily maintain that high rate of speed in heavy sea conditions in the open ocean, just as racing cars cannot necessarily maintain their high speed while driving off-road.
Well put. You got good high speed when needed balanced against good endurance. The five-bladed screws also gave much better thrust and reduced cavitation (unless one rang down full ahead) I suggest diesels or a CODOG type would not have worked as well.
Chilean Navy legendary frigates Leander Condell, Lynch, Zenteno y Baquedano.... estuve en RIMPAC 2004 (Hawaii)con la PFG 07 Lynch, dejando en alto nuestro buque !!!
Amazing analysis. Well done.
When I was in the U.S. Navy, we did exercises with one of the Chilean ships, the Lynch. If I recall correctly, the Lynch was equipped with the Alouette lll helicopter. Thanks for this video.
Yep Chile had two built and later UK transferred another two...they were the back bone of the Chilean navy..
I was there too in USA, but I was fly SH-32 Cougar !!!
AC is a necessity. Aside from crew comfort and efficiency AC is a must have to reduce humidity. Humidity will kill your electronics
Importance of AC is a bigger concern for operational in tropical waters like in Indonesian waters. Lack of AC would turn the crew cabins into microwaves.
I spent 6 months in the summer of 1974 on a tanker in the Gulf without AC. It was killer, in the engine room it was usually around 65c and on deck 45c.
@@Bruce-1956 was it oar powered?
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 😂😂
Hi I served on HMS APOLLO, WAS IN THE GULF, ROYAL YACHT ESCORT, SHE WAS A GREAT SHIP.
Serving in the Royal Navy in the last two decades of the Cold War, many of us thought service in a Leander class frigate, a highly successful type and workhorse of the Fleet, a badge of honour (HMS Jupiter 1977-78 for me).
I did serve on board ship leander class ship. I was in charge of radar section and later sonar section. I found that the redar 992, 966 are best of there kind hardy facing ang major issue with these system but the sonar 184PI was very hard to handle
Good old days!!!!
the Leander Class Frigates are one of the greatest post war era of surface warship that has ever built and sone few of this type of combat vessels as still in the active service until now
Great video. I remember HMS Plymouth too was hit by 5 bombs on 8-june by Daggers. Not a single bomb exploded though.
I was fortunate enough to visit HMS Plymouth a few times when she was in Birkenhead. Her scrapping was a national disgrace. 🤬
I served on Dido and loved it(1972) and was shell loader on left barrel
I served on her as a sonarman in '87, by then commissioned in the Royal New Zealand Navy, and renamed HMNZS Southland.
I joined her in 73.
My stepdad was on F70 Apollo during the cod wars, I remember it well, with my mum glued to the TV for news on what was going on, he had been out of the Navy just long enough to avoid reserve duty when the Falklands kicked off and we had to go and retreive them
Let's hope the new type 31 frigates will be as successful as the Leander class in Royal navy service
They're selling well - but the Royal Navy needs to add some weapons to its variant.
@@well-blazeredman6187 due to recent Russian and chineese aggression the government has announced a new water pistol is to be added to 3 of the class from 2035 onwards
The first five minutes are a good intro to post war RN frigate evolution. For the RNZN/RAN the type 12 lacked range. It was Suva to Pearl Harbour at the max. The Whitby was built with a cruising turbine so it could just cross the Atlantic in a broken back WW3, which facing opposition might mean an escort travelling 3250/5500 miles. The ability to just cross the Atlantic at 10 knots on a cruising turbine was seen as too ' emvarassing' and unrealistic in the age of British policy and view in the age of nuclear deterence and the Rothesays were built like the late T21 for 2 days sprint and drift in the GIUK Atlantic gap or running with carriers and fleet tankers, constantly refueling East of Suez. They are not convoy escorts
The last class of frigate 2b designed & built in the UK & sold around the world. Those were the days ..
The new frigates are bieng sold to other navies aren't they?
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Built locally in Canada & Australia to a UK design
@@markymark3572 oh right so the old ones were built in British yards then. Still better than nowt innit?
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Oh yes, that it is. The US navy is going to have it's new Italian design frigate built in the US, so same thing
Di indonesia kapal kelas ahmad yani tersisa 5 karena kapal ke 6 kri slamet riyadi telas pensiun dari tugasnya dan meriam yang ada didepannya dipakai lagi untuk uji tembak di paiton
Would be interesting to see what type of video you can make on Oslo class. That class have an interesting development story, Oslo class is based on a heavily modified dealey class, but at some point they considered basing it on Fletcher class destroyers.
The Terne III ASW systems alone is also interesting.
The South African Navy also had 3 type 12's
Please also check out our Rothesay class video for the President-class frigates of the South African Navy. We hope you will enjoy it.
th-cam.com/video/ILyjImG9-DU/w-d-xo.html
@@WeaponDetective Thank you, that's the one I served on.
an excellent and we'll researched article. however, I am sure that you have much more information about class. that you had to leave out due to time constraints.
perhaps you could create a multi part series for weapons that have served as long as the Leander class. covering all aspects of service.
Respect - memories of The Marlborough…
Hardly call the Australian Ships "Leanders", The superstructure was different and the layout below was different.
We just called 'em all River-class (as did Janes) but the hulls were Whitby and Leander. But, heck, can't use the 'Pom' nomenclatures. We're Srtayan mate but served oft with the RN-ers especially out of Singers and Hongkers. Great times and great boats.
Served on HMS Andromeda 1975 to end of 1978 as the ships medic.
Could you do a video about the g6 rhino ? And also good video, keep them coming !
Can you please make a video on the BrahMos missle? Its in the news after an "accidental" firing by India into Pakistan.
After J-10, Sigma class frigate please.....
F40 HMS Sirius
The leander class frigat design was bought by the Netherlands to be licensed build first thing the dutch did was ripping out most of the briitsh designed equipment for their own . Creating a ship more capable , 1,5 knots faster , 500 nautical miles increase in range . a complement of 180 instead of the 260 of the british . 8 harpoons vs the 4 exocet , and still in active service with the indonesian navy. 60 years later.
I'll take your word for the 1.5 kts and 500 nm, but complement and armament varied by type - the Exocet and Ikara varients had very specific roles, whereas the original-form gun Leander excelled in its role as a multi-prupose frigate. A bit like the original frigates in the time of Cochrane, say.
@@nemo6686 Well the dutch ripped out the boiler system. put in automated versions , removed all british electronics and put in dutch holland signaal and Sewaco equipment . the dutch van speijk class . was in many ways more modern and advanced.
For the most part the Dutch limited their changes to the Leander design to a wholesale replacement of the original British electronics and electrical equipment by those from Dutch manufacturers. Hollandse Signaalapparaten supplied the entire electronics suite. Specifically their LW-02 long-range air-surveillance radar, the DA-02 medium-range air/surface search radar and the M45 combined radar and optical fire control system for the 4.5 in (110 mm) guns. The Dutch HSA M44 radar/visual director for the Seacat anti-aircraft missiles could automatically target in elevation and bearing and allowed the single Seacat launcher on the British ships to be increased to two launchers on the Dutch ships, each with their own director.[1]
Mid-life modernization
Beginning in December 1976 each of the Dutch ships was given a mid-life modernization that took about two years to finish. The twin 4.5-inch turret was replaced by a single OTO Melara 76 mm gun and two quadruple mounts for Harpoon anti-ship missiles were fitted abaft of the funnel. The Mk 10 Limbo ASW mortar was replaced by a pair of triple Mk 32 torpedo launchers, one mount on each side of the hangar, and its mount plated over so the flight deck could be increased to allow the ship to carry the larger Westland Lynx helicopter in lieu of the Wasp carried earlier. The removal of the variable-depth sonar from the quarterdeck to the interior of the stern also allowed more room for the flight deck.[2]
The electronics were also upgraded, the LW-02 radar was exchanged for a LW-03 and the DA-02 was replaced by a DA-05 radar. Most importantly an automated combat management system, SEWACO V, was fitted to aid the ship's captain in decision making. Its power plant was also extensively automated. All told these changes allowed the crew to decrease in size from 254 to about 175 which allowed greatly increased standards of habitability.
@@marcusfranconium3392 Like I say, I don't dispute your assertions about Dutch improvements, though I'm not familiar with them myself. Of course, had they been willing to spend the money the British could have made the exact same improvements, though I suspect politics would always be the determining factor. My point though was that the differing variants made different degrees of contribution: the Ikara and Exocet variants were essentially designed to be components of a large task force, with the Soviet Union as the likely adversary. Whether they ever performed that role is debatable; the Falklands was the nearest but, after the sinking of the Belgrano the Argentine fleet remained in port and air attack became the overwhelming threat.
If the Ikara and Exocet variants were designed for integrated fleet actions, with Britain's Cold War role to keep the Soviet navy bottled-up, the gun variant retained the flexibility to fulfill the RN's older function of maintaining trade routes and order in a far-flung empire. The empire may have almost entirely dissolved, but the responsibilities don't disappear with sovereignty and a rocket-launched anti-submarine torpedo isn't much use in quelling piracy or assisting the civil authorities on a Caribbean island.
The addition of Sea Harpoon is an obvious improvement, and the 76mm gun retains much of the usefulness mentioned above, but the Netherlands' operational requirements dictate their choices; one of the gun Leander's roles was providing naval gunfire support, and I suggest twin 4.5" guns are far superior in that role to a single 76mm.
The Limbo mortar system is a bit of a conundrum - a result of the RN's convoy experience in WWII; on the one hand, the old-school technology's cheaper, more rugged and smaller than a Mk 32 torpedo, which means you can carry more of them and fire them off more liberally; on the other hand, is it as effective as a Mk 32, and does the Mk 32 every time its launched make you worry about shooting your own bows off?
As to helicopters, obviously the Lynx is far superior, but I'll always have a certain affection for the Wasp for the amazement that such an insubstantial craft could carry a nuclear weapon.
@@nemo6686 The thing was the dutch navy needed to replace some ww2 build canon class destroyer escorts . and they wanted a quick solution preventing long design proces. So they bought the licence for the hulls and whent full own production .
Indonesia still operates the former dutch ships.
The experience gained and midlife updates got them to build standardised ships. giving birth to the S-class (standard frigates) who in their own right became a succes. building 10 for the dutch navy +2 airdefence variants .2 for the greek navy , an 8 hulls for the german navy .
Dutch build ships tend to be in service a long long time after beeing decomisiond the from dutch service. .
The last dutch build cruisers that where layed down in 1939 only got decomisiond in 2017 . ( its now a museum ship of peru)
@@marcusfranconium3392 I don't question Dutch prowess in shipbuilding, an industry that, alas, has suffered too much political interference and strife in Britain - though I think what remains is improving. The performance of the new Queen Elizabeth class will show if I'm right.
But what you deem a success in the S-class also applies to the Leanders, only more so: a reliable, versatile hull, adaptable to multiple weapons systems, operated by multiple nations, with a long service life. That the Dutch were willing to spend money to improve it, or that upgrades have contributed to its longevity don't detract from that.
At last! Thank you
Did these Frigates fought in the Falklands with the Royal Navy? The Types 22, 42 and County class did, but Leander class did too?
Yep the Argonaut she took two Arg iron bombs that detonated two misiles on board killing two men and the power to this vessel.
@@unclealf6927 the Argonaut, yes. I remember well all these events, just was unsure of her Class. Fortunately she made it back. Thank you Sir!
@@unclealf6927 Able Seaman Iain Boldy and Able Seaman Matthew Stuart.
They are big for a frigate they really are bordering on being a destroyer with a little bit more armament certainly with the Sea wolf missile system, which I worked on, they could almost be considered destroyers.
The problem is they aren't Destroyers and the Leander's were almost certainly too small. That was recognised even when the RN ordered the Leander's in 1960, adding Asroc and Tartar was seen as needed even then as was a larger helicopter or two, but impossible without expansion to 3500 light. For Pacific use in the 1960s even 1970s s two turret design was needed RAN /RNZN or the RN East of Suez. That was US Policy for Vietnam and Pacific and not just for reliable GFS.
The RN/ UK considered following the T15 conversions with the conversion of 20 Battle class to first rate a/s frigates in the same period and the US Fram 1 Gearing conversion.
In many ways the T41, 61 diesels , Tribsl T81 and Daring were 20 years ahead of their time in a general RN/ RNZN view as more compact electronics, processing and fire control to make them work only became available from the late 1960s. The T41 was recommended to the RAN in 1948 when neither the T11/12 existed.
The Type 41/ 61 is really s diesel powered utility version of the G type two Turret steam turbine Daring destroyer with the the same two twin low mounted Mk 6 turrets, and Mountbatten's J class destroyer bow and scaled down Stern of HMS York a 1928 , 8 inch cruiser the half sister of Exeter. According to Freidman the legend of the Type 12 drawn in 1950 was a fast drawn derivative of the evolved diesel type 41, powered by a steam turbine. It is in Norman Friedman's view a diesel frigate with a steam turbine system, fitted in.
@@frederickmiles327 Yes they aren't (or rather weren't) destroyers but they were nice ship to be in, and big for a frigate. I've also been in the type 42's and I found them to be more cramped than the Leander, especially aft. To be honest I really liked both . Can't go into details as I've signed the official secrets act several times but they were all lovely ships , we had some Americans with us and they didn't want to leave to go back to their own ships.
That's strange because I did all my time on destroyers and always wondered what the living conditions on Leander class frigates were like.
Proper frigates not like the junk they have us refitting now.
I saw them take very heavy seas. But combat?? No idea.
looks nothing like the WOWS model, I'm calling fake news (jk)
JAI HIND 🇮🇳 🇮🇳 🇮🇳
Nice video to watch..
Served on danae 1970 72 great shop great ships company
I just unsubscribed, but whereas I normally do that without explaining why, I felt like I should make an exception here. The thing is that in a way I totally love your channel and I was very pleased when I found it. The quality and the care when it comes to gathering the information, writing a script for the audio commentary (which I assume you make in preparation of the actual recording) and mostly the amount of different videos and other visual material: incredibly well done, so for that reason I subbed. But... I still unsubbed. Why?
I know it may sound a bit childish or picky, but I just missed too many parts of the audiocommentary because of quality issues. That is caused by two things: the quality of your audio recording equipment and your pronunciation. The first makes it sound like you're using a simple headset, not the best one, or at least it doesn't capture your voice in the clearest way possible, by comparison to what's possible as heard in other channels. And the second is (I think) extremely personal. I am not a native English speaker and although I have a decent grasp of the language, sometimes when spoken with a (slight or thick) accent, I just start missing bits. And because I know from what I do understand all is as well prepared and executed when it comes to the content, it is extremely frustrating to listen to it and know you are missing out on some of that, simply because I can't immediately understand what you're saying. I can't just lean back and be calmly educated by you; I have to crank up the volume, focus really hard in following what's been said, and even then I am missing bits. As said, it might be more on me for having issues with your particular way of pronouncing stuff, but on the other hand it is good for you to know that the way you talk in combination with the quality of recording tools is something people like me could have a problem with. Which is only a problem because I really really would like to hear what you have to say.
For me it just doesnt work as I want to learn and be entertained by your channel and content, not get a bit frustrated for not being able to do that fully. And I wanted to share this with you, as a feedback that I hope you will value and maybe use, because this channel has a lot of potential, but in my opinion is being let down a bit by this audio issue as I perceive it. So... keep it mind, maybe it helps in growing both the quality of the vids as your sub-count. Any which way, I wish you all the best.
Thanks anyway
We updated our voicing equipment. You may give a second chance.
That bow is about as British looking as it gets. Unique, purposeful and determined.
Minerva for me then arethusa I loved them and our commish on minerva 72-75 still meet up most years 👍
HMNZS Canterbury, Waikato, Otago and Wellington. Back when we had a navy
Great video , I served in the Royal New Zealand Navy for 6 and 1/2 years 1980 to 1986 and served on two Leander class frigates , HMNZS Canterbury F421 and HMNZS Wellington F69 They were truly great warships, Thank you for making this video.
I think one of them was sunk as an artificial reef off NZ ?
@@johnstirling6597 Both of them were. Canterbury in Deep water cove and Wellington in Wellington. Canterbury benefitted from some careful planning and preparation to sink her properly and is well-preserved, while Wellington is now a pile of rubble due to wave action. Also, the Leander frigate HMNZS Waikato is sunk just outside Tutukaka and is a great dive, although the bow is torn off under the bridge and has moved I guess 75 metres or more now away from the rest of the ship.
Southland was scrapped. Waikato still has it's gun, Wellington still has its gun, Canterbury had its gun removed to become a gate guard at Philomel and Southland had the antisubmarine suite instead of the gun.
@@davesherry5384 Thanks for that. Born and grew up in NZ but left 40 years ago, I recall as a kid in the 60s going to a public day at Devonport and being shown around one of the Leander Frigates and then sometime in the 80s seeing a video of one of them being sunk for an artificial reef .
@@johnstirling6597
HMS Scylla was also sunk as a
reef off Whitsand Bay Cornwall
I served on Bacchante 81-82 got back from the Falklands in August of 82, picked up a bunch of kiwis from ascension Island on the way home, we arrived in portsmouth and basically handed the ship over to the NZ Navy, she was refitted and became the Wellington. It was the Wellington that was sunk as an artificial reef approximately 16 years ago. I believe that there is a documentary on the sinking.
My dad served in one of these, here in the Chilean Navy of the mid '80s, the PFG-07 "Admiral Lynch". Today the old Lynch is still active, albeit now in service in the Ecuadorian Navy as the BAE FM-02 "Morán Valverde". My memories of the Lynch in particular are hazy because I was only a few years old when my dad took me onboard the frigate for a day (I think it was Christmas of '85) but the Leander class had a long and distinguished career in the Chilean Navy, with the "Lynch" and her twin the "Condell" being among the main fleet, alongside the County class cruisers/destroyers it also had. They later bought two more, the HMS F-12 "Achilles" and HMS F-72 "Ariadne", which were renamed to PF-08 "Zenteno" and PF-09 "Baquedano" respectively.
Because the "Zenteno" and "Baquedano" were purchased second-hand from the Royal Navy, these did not have a long service with the Chilean Navy as the "Condell class" ("Condell" and "Lynch" were basically Batch 2 units newly built for the Chilean Navy, with their own specifications, which made them actually an offshoot of the original Leander class), but the fact that the Chilean Navy decided to buy them regardless speaks favorably about the whole Leander class.
@Leadblast I was aboard PFG Lynch when she arrived at Valparaiso for the first time, having joined her at Punta Arenas. She was greeted by a welcoming committee and a military band. A very moving experience. At the time I worked for the UK Plessey company. Because she was on her maiden voyage being delivered to Chile from the shipbuilders Yarrow in Glasgow, many of the crew had bought stuff to bring back to Chile that were prized in Chile such as bicycles and whisky, so every spare space on the ship was full of interesting things. 🙂
I served in two of these, HMS Minerva and HMS Diomede. My lasting memory is of them being happy ships. Of course a big ship's company by todays standards but people knew their 'part of ship' and got on well. Great memories!
No portholes, chum and you are right. The Leanders had probably the best pre-wetting systems and anti-NBCD citadels of the time. We call them scuttles and forecastle is pronounced fo'c'sle. Those niggles a side, congratulations on an outstanding coverage of truly great ships (you should look at the Daring-class DDs, too. They and the Whitby/Leanders made a formidable force). The RAN had four Whitby and two Leanders as DEs and they traveled world-wide. Mainly with the FESR under SEATO and frequently came up against the Chinese and Russians. The Whitbys were also deployed during Konfrontasi with Indonesia and we frequently indeed commonly exercised with our RN and RNZN counterparts. You will note they all were fitted with the LWO2 air search radar as well Type 973 and 975 radars; sonar was Type 170 and 177. The LWO was mounted atop the foremast in the Whitbys and became known as the 'key'. This did produce significant heeling and was later moved aft all same the Leanders. Armament was a twin 4.5-inch, twin Bofors 40mm replaced by the Seacat system, twin Mk 10 Limbo mortars, Ikara ASW missile system and retrograde twin three-barelled ASW torpedoes.
Brilliant in any seaway (superior to the Perry FFGs we had and the Anzacs) and superb to 'drive', noting the hull is nothing more than a large box to put stuff in, as Australia is seeking new frigates I don't know why we cant build new hulls and then equip them with new systems.
Crazy to think these ships were replaced by the Type 21 Amazon class frigates, the Leanders would've survived the hits that finished those ships during the Falkands war.
No, the overwhelming consensus is the bomb hits taken by the T21 Ambushcade and HMS Ardent would have sunk any RN Type 12 or Leander. In the RN and Commonwealth navies there are many who think the Leander the smooth ride and effective frigate, but of those who actually served in the T21s many thought they were great. Some dismiss that as more spacious comfortable officer cabins and the always exploited in the late 1970s and early 80s ability to take the frigate out of harbour at speed 32 knots, blowing the mind of the watching chicks and combined with the RN officer uniform providing the sort of elite display most likely to get every 17/18 year old females clothes off fast. But it was more than that Admiral J R Hill said of the Type 21 they offered less rebundancy or necessary back up systems in radars, wiring etc than any post 1948 RN frigate but the crews of the T21 worshiped the design and against all read and logic believed the 21 could do anything. And if course Captain Hugo White finally given command of a T21 at 44 half way thru the Falklands war, took it from Plymouth to the Falklands in less than a week, flat out at 31k all the way other the fuel top ups at Gibraltar, Ancension and a RN tanker Rearmed with a 4/62 N5, 2 L70 , Phalanx and a Seasprite the T21 looks more reasonable than an over complex FFG7 which offered little by the standard of DDG Adams or Hobart or an Anzac which is essentially a rough riding German export frigate possibly successfully upgraded Into some sort of surface or AA patrol ship off North Australia but in no ways performs it's claimed role in replacing the T12, Leander, Rivet thru the Australian Blight, Bass Straight and Foveaux straight if the escort route is forced South by Backfires, Blackjacks or 8H Badgers with the cruise missiles based at Cam Rahn Bay or the Solomon's The Anzacs are not global combat ships and are not really designed for even warfare against diesel Kilo or Song subs.
@frederickmiles327 and breathe Fred. Interesting dit btw
innoying commentary, lasted 90secs
Tribals were destroyers.....the last one is in my cities harbour, HMCS HAIDA.
Very cool. The Royal New Zealand Navy operated five Leander-class frigates back in the day.
The HMNZS Southland F104, HMNZS Otago F111, HMNZS Wellington F69, HMNZS Waikato F55 and HMNZS Canterbury F421.
Sadly, all are gone now, with Southland and Otago being sold for scrap in the late 1980's and the remaining three sunk as artificial reefs/dive attractions.
It's a bloody shame one couldn't have been saved as a museum ship. They were replaced by just two ANZAC-class frigates; the HMNZS Te Kaha F77 and HMNZS Te Mana F111.
Otago was a Rothesay class frigate
I remember one of the ship was called the concrete ship because concrete was used in the ship's hull or something...
@@sloo6425 yes southland. I had mates that served on her and in heavy seas they reconned you could look down the main passage way down delow deck and see the ship twisting as it went over waves. So i believe they put concrete in to brace the ship up a bit
@@jameswatt2166 Thanks for the clarification... I suspected as much, but wasn't totally sure to be honest.
I remember one of them has a small beach buggy of some type secured to the upper part of the ship to use in port.
My first ship was Juno
Bangladesh navy was used 3 this type of frigates
Thanks for this! I served on HMS Euryalus. The Leanders were fantastic ships with fine seakeeping qualities.
Pity no footage inside the ship
Finished my naval career serving on F70 HMS Apollo. Great ship great crew. Last saw her leaving Portsmouth in 1976 as I left the service going to Portsmouth Harbour railway station.
Argonaut "the fighting 56"
Takes me back I was HMS Scylla F71 from 91-92 part of the Lynx helicopter maintainers
My first ship was a type 3 Leander, HMS Hermione She was the last ship to be refitted in Chatham Dockyard and came out with the Exocet & Sea Wolf conversion. If I’d stuck with Leanders and not been transferred to big ships, I may well have done my 22…
Gòod frigates if they never went to close in falklands they would have caught tge skyhawks and killed them RN should have kept the big carriers with phantom and later f 18 with destroyer frigate escort would have taken falklands sooner less loses if any.
I piped the Hermione out of Chatham !!
our fleet is more like a training squadron !!, the 1980s was the last time we had a fleet!!
Funny how leanders are thought as small ships.
@@Cous1nJack Well I was comparing her to Ark Royal… 🤪
Beautiful ship!
Well built ships for the North Atlantic, they took a hammering from wind and wave and stood up to it.
Good looking ship at speed too!
Having the theme from the 1970s show form the TV series ‘Warship’ was a nice touch
My first ship in the RN was a batch 1 ikara conversion Hms Galatea(F18). My pit(bed) was in the mess square(3EZ)and I had more late nights than I wanted to. The accommodation in comparison to the type 21 frigates was positively “Nelsonion” however, I had a great time during a Far East tour in 1980 and have some great memories 😊
Seacat wasn't much use. It was obsolete pretty early on.
the limbo was no wonder weapon either, I served on HMAS Swan a river class, a development of the type 12
A marketing tool for frigate export sales and crew recruitment. The Seacat aimer was usually a 19 year old junior ratings.
Seacat allowed the RN and commonwealth navies to pretend they had equipped with modern and effective tech and mislead their government paymasters and Treasury they were getting a bargain.
Many old sailors and officers viewed the Seacat as just a rocket and the Leander as absurdly underarmed with a twin manually loaded 4.5 ( the loading is not automatic and the gun can not be fired automatically by a radar/ Computer -- detection/ analysis ( IFF)/ tracking and prioritisation / auto loading right ammunition/ firing and is really two slow firing with a fire rate of say 18 rpm X 2 for 2 min and 10-12rpm for say another 8 min.
2 Oerilikons are a junk bashing gesture, surely 2/L60 and 2/L70 might have been very much better for the Confrontation and the Falklands.
What on earth could Seacat have actually engaged it had a speed of about 600 mph or less, max height elevation of O.9 kilometres and a range of 3.5 miles (5km+), and it had to be collected into joystick guidance by an operator using binoculars or local radar a minimum of about 400 metres from the ship. The warhead seemed too small to be effective and it seemed to lack a radar proximity fuse.
First Lord Mountbatten argued it was equivalent to a 300lb 8 inch shell for use against FPB and it was so accurate that the joystick operator could put it through a window half a mile away. What real target could it hit ??- It was argued that Seacat was a deterrent to Soviet Helix helicopter or May 38 MPA ( P3 Orion copy), flying close to RN frigates. I would have thought 40 mm Bofors or the twin 30 mm Oerilikons, fitted too late after the Falklands more useful, and proved so in the confrontation.
During the controversial RNZN Muroroa deployment in 1973 Otago F111 a T12 and Leander, F421 Canterbury (1971) yarrow were constantly harrassed by French Neptune P-2, making low passes, both sides using engaged serious electronic warfare with the RNZN frigates running in the intermediate zone .
The RAN flagship HMAS Supply a tanker providing observation for the Australian media and officers and to some extent the world and US regarded it as an Australian led deployment The RNZN frigates put live Seacats on the launchers to hopefully discourage the French P2 Neptune's but seemed to regard the Frigates 4.5 turrets with shells in their loading trays -as the main deterence to the 3 French Corvettes and possibility of French boarding parties and had Mk 46/44 in the Mk 32 tubes -. Source Lt Cdr G.Wright Ret, XO of Otago - several books on the RNZN deployment.
@@TheWareek How did the RAN rate Ikara. .My lecturer Richard Kennaway said when given a photo of Ikara in 1981 on its launcher on HMS Bristol. That the RNZN couldn't possibly buy that a Ikara Leader ( HMS Dido) Hmnzs Southland, it Ikara is a Polaris missile. It is of course claimed the RN version of Ikara was never NCB fitted but how else, could the inaccuracy ever be overcome
@@TheWareek Seacat it was claimed by RN and RNZN crews could be used against surface targets, but never officially. It was however claimed Limbo was really a big gun/ Howitzer which could be directed against FPB and surfaced subs.I would have thought the Erika version of the Bofors a/s rocket launcher with a range 0.9 km to 4.5 km might be effective against a surfaced or submerging sub 2 miles or 4km way or FPB and a much better solution than a 1km range Limbo.
I served on HMAS Torrens in the early eighties it was a great ship. Its ashamed that you didn't mention the other Australian DE's Derwent, Yarra, Stuart & Parramatta based off the Type 12M but more powerful as they were originally armed with Twin 4.5inch, Seacat, Ikara ASW system and Limbo mortar.
Shane, I was in Parramatta (1969), Derwent (1969 late to 1970), Torrens (72-73 and Swan late 73 -75)
Shane, As a lad I worked on the building of HMAS Torrens at the Cockatoo Island Dockyard.
@@richarddickson747 One built at CODOCK the other at Dogtown. Each then tended to have rivalry between the crews which came in handy.
@@andrewstackpool4911 That rivalry is part of the navy. I remember the story of an RN sailor who was one of the three survivors of HMS Hood which blew up with almost 2,000 killed and he was picked up by an RN destroyer and his first comment was to ask the name of the destroyer. When he was told the name he replied with disgust JUST MY BLOODY LUCK, PICKED UP BY A BLOODY SHIP FROM CHATHAM NAVAL BASE.
@@richarddickson747 You with respect are telling me? Here I was talking about how officers and senior sailors focused that rivalry for stuff like ship appearances. I was one of em and served for almost 50 years. SWAN and TORRENS tended to be a tad different as Leanders vice Whitney's but working together we were one. Up Top rivalry came down to RAN vs RN vs RNZN vs USN vs ??? Bottom line Type 12 people regardless of hull type were a special breed. I would add. In the Vietnam/SEATO/FESR period had the CHICOM and/or CCCCP balloon gone up we had about three days to live. That's something navy history overlooks. We all worked hard, played hard and partied hard. Then the various Type 12s were the best of the best. No matter the Navy.
My first time at sea was in the original HMS Leander, F109. She was an old lady by then, mid 80s. I was in my mid teens and I was horribly seasick! Our mess was aft, underneath where the anti sub mortars were. I got to fly in the Wasp helo which was brilliant for a kid.
An excellent presentation of one of my favourite RN ships ( the other being the County Class. ) Kudos to you also for mentioning the TV series "Warship" - a superb series that still has no equal.
The county class are impressive although the weapons were obsolete. A seaslug salvo was as sight to behold. I was on Devonshire and Hampshire.
I thought the GMDs were great looking ships, though only ever got to visit the Kent as HTS.
This takes me back, when my family lived in Gosport (father in MoD) and you'd see Leander's moored in Portsmouth dockyard and in summer when the "Navy Days" happened (naval base open day) you could get to look around the ships (frigates, destroyers, minesweepers etc) and also some of the workshops in the dockyard (ended up training & working there before the defence cutbacks).
Some of the ABs used to volunteer to stand at the bottom of the ladders to assist Lady Visitors during Navy Days - and they started putting canvas dodgers on the undersides of ladders to frustrate this.
I served on three of these. Penelope F127, Andromeda F57 and Galatea F18. Time of my life. As a young bloke on one of these in the 70s much fun was had!!!!!!!
Thanks for this excellent video about an excellent ship.
I served in 4x Type 12 frigates in the Australian Navy in the 1980/90s when they were coming to their end of life. They were the most weatherly and toughest old girls I ever went to sea in. I was a Principal Warfare Officer for much of that time and we also often had the advantage of a manual ops room when automated ops rooms in other ships failed and we had to take over command of a task unit or an individual action! Fun times I will never forget. This video is so vivid and accurate (exempt the plummy accents) it almost makes me cry. Nostalgia hey!!
Please also check out our Rothesay class video. We hope you will enjoy it.
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I was lucky to visited KRI Oswald Siahaan one of the the Ahmad Yani-class during local Naval Festival back in 2015 in Surabaya, Indonesia. This ship is still have strong presence, although it will retired soon
Great ships. Served in two in my time, HMS Arethusa (Ikara) as Navigator 1983-1986 and then Euryalus (Ikara) as Ops Officer/PWO(U) when she was doing Dartmouth Training Cruises 1988-1989. Much of my time in Arethusa was spent in either Stanavforlant or Stanavformed which was brilliant fun but hard work. Happy, happy days.
HMS Arethusa - last commission 1987-1989 Corro & Divo. A truly great ship, ships company and sea presence.
My elder brother, Richard, served on HMS Charybdis. He joined the "Mob£ at age 15, in 1967, when they still had the tot - and the birch!
3:28 comment is wrong. The forecastle kink was primarily due to the hull design being originally for the Type 12 which had the standby diesel generators in the bow, and they needed head space. Although the Leanders moved the generators down into the hull, they kept the original hull shape. On the Type 12s you will often see black staining from the diesel exhausts under the raised forecastle.
Forecastle is pronounced foke-sul. Why? It just is. Subscribed.
Used to watch them going up and down the Forth to Rosyth.
Same from Portobello :)
Same and used to love visiting them at Navy Days at Rosyth.
Thank you for an interesting video. Some comments:
1 - As you said, the Leander and Rothesay/Whitby classes used a standard hull. So much so, that HMS Leander was laid down as HMS Weymouth of the Roth/Whit class.
2 - Two more users of this hull were Salisbury class aircraft direction frigate and Leopard class anti-aircraft frigate.
3 - 1967-8 HMS Penelope was detailed as a trials ship for a certain sonar upon which I was working as an MoD scientific civil servant. The crew hated this duty in general and us in particularly, calling us "Bloody scientists" to our faces and hindering the trials by such devices as turning up 2 days late and thrashing the ship at 26 kts into a 30 foot Atlantic swell so as to abort our tests and arrive in port early on the Friday for a long weekend.
4 - The TV series "Warship" was set on board the fictitious "HMS Hero" (an obvious name for a member of the Leander class, given the Greek legend of Hero and Leander). There's a jolly tale of how the ship was buzzed by a big Soviet reconnaissance plane which flew slowly past, evidently filming her, presumably because they thought it must be a ship they didn't know about! From Wiki:
Seven Leander-class frigates played the role of HMS Hero and for continuity, all were repainted with the pennant number F42 of HMS Phoebe, the main warship used for filming. The others were HMS Danae, HMS Dido, HMS Diomede, HMS Hermione, HMS Juno and HMS Jupiter.
As an engine fitter apprentice saw the launch of Danae and worked on the build of Scylla. Did the last ever refit of Penelope before Devonport Royal Dockyard was privatised. Worked on many Leander class but my favourite was Penelope, to see her return to Devonport after the Falklands war was quite emotional
When I was working at the missile base at Aberporth in South Wales I heard stories of HMS Penelope shooting down a 4 a half inch artillery shell with the Sea wolf missile system.
I was a junior stoker on board when you were on board
I went to a reunion a couple of weeks ago
With
Bill stubley, Ian Wilkinson and Jim Duncan
Our old MEO Jan Grundy passed away a couple of years ago
Technically the sun still doesn't set upon the British Empire. Long live Her Majesty.
Great post thanks. Served on HMNZS Southland F104 (ex Dido) Ikara Leander, HMNZS Canterbury F421 Broad beam 45 Leander, and HMNZS Otago F111 Type 12. Fantastic ships, many great memories.
Served in three of these in the RAN, HMAS Derwent, HMAS Swan and HMAS Stuart. Dammed things rolled on a wet sponge or even in Dry Dock 🤣🤣. Loved them all.
Please also check out our Rothesay class video for HMAS Derwent and HMAS Stuart. We hope you will enjoy it.
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What a grand video to get suggested YT, Hm the centurions of the sea some call the Type 12 Frigates serving up until now.
Hm I hope the game (WT) adds a Type 12I soon to bolster support to their cousin the Type 12 (F77) & slight distance cousin the Type 41, As the modifications of the Leander were helpful to their roles historically an if added too.
I kinda hope that prior to scraping the last of the Type 12I's one or some gets preserved an or sold back to Britain to be made a museum ship over their in it's original configuration as they were the workhorses of nations.
I served in Jupiter, Penelope and Hermione, and have fond memories of my time spent on board.
They were a nightmare when on Gulf Patrol....the AC on board really was hopeless.....Great ships and great memories.
Agree - had the same issues with Scylla. Very fragile AC plant.
Thanks so much for making.
At action stations a common pastime when I was in the royal navy was to name all the leanders.