Redeeming Love is THE WORST book
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Dwarfism history IG: / dwarfismhistory
Join my channel membership to get access to perks:
/ @readswithrachel
Patreon: / readswithrachel
Commissions: ko-fi.com/read...
Merch: www.bonfire.co...
Wishlist: www.amazon.com...
CONTACT ME:
Business inquiries please email me here: readswithrachel@thestation.io
All other emails go to: readswithrachel@gmail.com
Support Roma children and youth in Ukraine:
chuffed.org/pr...
Support Palestinian children: www.pcrf.net/
SUPPORT INDIA DURING THEIR COVID CRISIS:
donation links
-www.careindia....
-www.projecthop...
SUPPORT COLOMBIA:
resources and info
-mailchi.mp/cb9...
BLACK LIVES MATTER.
Resources:
-Massive list of places and people to donate to: nymag.com/stra...
-Find a protest or fundraiser near you: / events
Find literature to read
Watch Vee Kativhu's video on recommending books to learn about racism: • 10 books you MUST read...
-Support some Black youtubers by watching Myonna Reads' playlist of Black booktubers: • Black Booktubers
Support my channel
-Patreon: / readswithrachel
-Tip me on Ko-fi: ko-fi.com/read...
-Commission me for a video book review: ko-fi.com/read...
-Use my link to try BOOK OF THE MONTH: www.mybotm.com...
-Use my link to get $10 off your first Instacart order: inst.cr/t/VTNr...
Follow me on socials
TIKTOK: / rachelwithreads
INSTAGRAM: / readswithrachel
BLUESKY: bsky.app/profi...
He was worried that the Native Americans would dig up his sister's grave without his consent? Funny, all my anthropology books seem to suggest that the opposite happened (and I'm including the vast majority of archaeologists' behavior around NA graves up until three Native American Grave Protection Act was put into place)
The fact that repatriation took until bush in the 1990s too.
I've read a (true) story about how the whites stole a deceased Native American baby's body. To study it. And naturally, the family was pretty angry and they took ages to return it. That's a yikes from me.
you are very correct!! as a native american, i’m always horrified to see white people just digging our ancestors up for research. it’s disgusting. they don’t do it to other white people, why do they do it to us??
Man, people can be and have been a$$ holes. I grew up in an area that several tribes settled down in after being driven out of their original territory, only to suffer heavy casualties when they resisted being driven further west. Then, the government slapped down an enormous ammunition plant in the middle of the significant sites. Then, a highway was added. But of course, it's all cool now because a bunch of historical markers were put up in 2001-2002.
(Read: heavy on the scornful sarcasm.)
Every conservative accusation is a confession and projection.
This book seems more concerned about condemning sex work than the people responsible for the human trafficking.
Priorities
The building blocks of propaganda. Teach people to fear the witches, not the ones burning them alive.
I was given this book by my Christian therapist while I was working through my own CSA trauma. I’m still f*cked up from it.
Curses upon that counselor what a shitty person
Wtf. I don't know if you're a woman, but a book I really recommend is The Courage to Heal: A Guide for Women Survivors of CSA. I personally read it and absolutely loved it, and it was something my actually good counselor recommended to me. It's a rather big book, but it's so well written and compared to other books I've read on CSA, it is far more inclusive of different races and sexualities and does have some parts about men. It even comes with a workbook. You might be able to get it from your local library. I'm not a man so I don't know if I can give a super good recommendation for books about male CSA but I definitely could look them up.
@@ettaetta439 Thank you
@@sarahs.6838 I couldn't finish this video to be honest. When I heard the synopsis of this book I knew it was going to be too much for me so I'm just hanging out in the comments. The synopsis alone sounds horrifically traumatizing and knowing it's meant to be a Christian purity book, I know it'll be horrifically insensitive. I can't imagine having grown up Christian, having been abused as a child, and then reading this insensitive, awful, disgusting, disrespectful book that blames me for what an adult did to me, calling me equal to my offender. I'm so glad you're doing better now, it would've done a huge number on anybody but especially victims.
Omg that’s horrendous 😢 I’m sorry that therapist added to your trauma with that. Truly vile
what if i told you this was required reading for my private christian schools english class when I was a junior💀
SAY THIS IS A JOKE. DONT TELL ME YOU ARE SERIOUS.
my mom and i were listening to the audio together and got an hour in before she was like cool so NOPE and returned it back to the library lol
I am appalled for all the kids who had parents who didnt see reason OH MY GOD
SO serious😭
@@shelbybryson So glad your Mom was there and she stopped it!
Interesting a book like this will be given to young girls to study but if a gay couple holds hands in a book people try to ban it for being “inappropriate for young kids”
Legit. And drag queens are “grooming kids”, but child beauty pageants judged by old people that dress children in makeup, skimpy clothes and make them dance ARENT?
@table2.0 the crowds in toddlers&tiaras always felt kinda telling about the general culture i feel lol
@@nope19568 and the egotistical mums who force their barely-conscious children into those shows are always terrible too, I’m surprised it isn’t grounds to take their children off of them
@table2.0 absolutely the baby section of those pagents is so crazy. like why do you feel the need to parade ur infant child around like a trophy because you think theyre cute?
They accuse us of trying to turn kids gay and trans because they know they're trying to turn their own kids (at least their girls) into, first and foremost, breeders.
As an ex-christian I can attest that many Christians describe God as an abusive partner and they don't even notice
It wasn’t until I left an abusive relationship that I was able to look back and see how the Christian idea of a relationship with god is glorifying an abusive relationship. No wonder I saw the same things in someone else and let it go on for so long. If that’s what you’ve been told your whole life is a reflection of the holiest kind of love then of course you’re gonna stay.
Ok 👍🏽
And the way they say "God fearing" like it's a good thing (while literally referring to him as "The Father"). Like it's no wonder why a lot of Christian parents confuse fear and obedience for respect.
i mean... it's a literal god. No relationship with a god can be much other than one sided, no? like, thinking of it as fiction to put in perspective, a god will never be on the same level as humans, or, if you will, mortals. Christians just do it on an even wilder dynamic. Like that guy from the old testament, i think he was the perfect good man and god just fucked with him to be sure his faith was for real and unchangeable... like, i can't help but wonder, maybe that was a little much? lmao
The christian God is craaazy op.
no but literally learning about what abusive relationships looked like was the final straw that drove me to becoming officially Ex christian
Gotta love how the abuse victim is constantly shamed and told she should "repent" for a life she was FORCED to do since she was 8. LIKE SHE HAD A CHOICE.
Do Indigenous Americans exist in this book solely to a bogyman for the white characters? Yikes.
Yes. It’s really shitty.
@@wanderingspark eyyy I'm apparently a boogeyman! Why did no one tell me I had this power 🤣
Girl I’m 3 minutes in but the moment you said “based on the story of Hosea” I knew this was gonna be BAD
I regret to tell you its downhill at 90mph from there
Maybe I just didn't pay enough attention in church, but I never heard that story. To be fair I was raised Catholic, so idk if its a denomination thing
@@somedragonbastard do they teach from the books of the prophets in catholicism? Hosea, Jonah, Joel, Amos etc
@@ReadswithRachel yeah, they do. When I was talking about it with my mom she said she remembered it so I think I just forgot. My church was pretty chill with a lot of stuff so maybe they just put less emphasis on it
@@somedragonbastardI know I’m late to this, but I also grew up Catholic and I don’t remember every hearing sermons from the book of the prophets. May church was family oriented though, so part of me thinks the priest didn’t put emphasis on them because there were so many kids in church. Even as they grew up with me I never heard those books.
If he loved her, he would give her the house in the woods and then never speak to her again
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID IN THE BOOK!! After She Ran Away The second Time He Did Not Chase After Her. He Heard About All The Good Things She Had Done, AND LEFT HER ALONE!!
@@GFAproditeno. he never gave her the house. He repeatedly demanded things of a trafficking victim. Eventually he stopped and she came back on her own later. Had any of this been real life, I would advise the woman to call the police.
Duchess' bodyguard beating the brothel's prize money-maker to a pulp is ridiculously out-of-touch.
Sounds like a poor idea of capitalism (which has its own pits in which many fall, but isn't as destructive as this "faith" stuff).
Seems that it happens regularly in bad books about sex trafficking, in EL James’ “The Mister” the traffickers trying to get hold of the heroine beat her in a way that leaves bruises, which maybe isn’t ideal if you’re trying to force someone to do sex work?
I am an ex-fundie and when I was in the church I LOVED this book and read it as an example of how a "good christian wife" should act and what "real love" is. Fast forward post traumatic divorce filled with betrayal I revisited this book in an effort to understand what I may have done wrong. I decided after reading to begin the process of leaving my faith and stop feeling shame and fault for the actions of my ex.
I was lent this book by a Christian friend decades ago! I didn't get past the first chapter. Glad I never finished it.
Bember
Turns out what she found offensive about that other book wasn't what she listed, it was the fact that it teaches consent.
i was SO positively surprised by the whole opening a home for former sex workers thing, AND THEN SHE RUINED IT??!??
If Rivers had ended the book with her MC running the home to rescue other sex trafficking victims, it would have redeemed (no pun intended) the existence of this whole travesty. Ending the book on a note of girl power, having her rise above EVERYTHING she’d been through, including Michael? Yes, please. And then this fundie beeyotch of an author has the main character go back to her husband and literally kneel to him, begging him to let her be his obedient wife. ARGH.
@@Sailormac2so true.
Just letting Angel run a home for former sex workers would have been a great ending. Her cottage in forest filled with her sisters? Perfect
The thing I hated most about this book when I read it, what about all the other “prostitutes”? Some God. You only save one girl, and the prettiest one? Seems about right. For me, a young sad girl who always felt rejected, this book just reinforced that I would never be good enough.
Reminder that you are good enough for someone. Be well, buddy
I grew up in a southern Baptist church. I never heard of this book or the story of Hosea until this book became a movie. I went to the movie thinking it was a TEEN CHRISTIAN MOVIE. People were pushing for youth groups to go and see this movie in my city. Like multiple churches made events for the youth to go see this together.
I went with my mom. I've never felt so uncomfortable watching a movie with my mom. The movie just kept getting worse. I can only imagine how much worse the book gets.
Oh my God!!! WHY IS THERE A MOVIE? I just googled it, and it's from 2022??? With Nina Dobrev??? Like what is even going on. And it was distributed by Universal Pictures, why is this so mainstream?
So fifteen years ago, this book was featured in an informal bible study/book club I joined with friends. I was soon horrified. This book got so bad for me that the ladies would joke, "...and here is where Jen ruins this chapter for us all.". Because this was some seriously traumatizing trash. Once a week for at least six weeks, I covered and harped on everything you said here including just how poorly written it all was. I mean, the least the author could do was write it in a readable manner. I started off writing my notes of disgust on paper like a civilized human being and then just devolved into writing on the book itself. That one scene where he makes her say his name? I drew big X's through the pages and wrote the word that rhymes with "gape" in all caps. Just no. I also could not stop challenging the group to tell me how the hero was so different from the Duke. Because yeah, he's exactly the same (down to changing her name bit) just with a god complex --I mean, she's broken down mentally to provide free labor and "favors", autonomy and identity stripped...and on and on. Blech yucky.
For the record, the other ladies in the club were great and even those who liked the book enjoyed seeing if I'd written another one of my all caps "Run, Girl!" on yet another page. Thanks for bringing this book back into the spotlight, Rachel.
It's really telling how the supposed "hero" is just as bad as the villain, the only difference being that he's a Christian and forces her to marry him. It's like the book is flat out saying "Christian husbands will be rewarded with captive wives who are forced to please them, but it's ok cause god willed it. So enjoy it, gents!"
Hearing it called “paternalism “ unlocked something for me 😅 years of fundie men calling me the weaker vessel while I’m busting my ass trying to minimize the harm they’re causing, trying to survive, while also having to manufacture some vision of the world he thinks he lives in. Gotta keep him from crying at all costs, because crying gets me hurt.
That’s horrible. These men are so delusional. I stopped trying to act like their vision of a woman because it’s so stupid and selfish of them.
This kind of "paternalism" is why so many men have ulcers and exacerbated stress that shortens their lives.
So apparently a "husband" so abusive that a trafficking victim would rather go back to being trafficked is a good thing?
A lot of "Christian" Republican politicians are involved in sex trafficking, so yes that's exactly what they believe
Yikes
That is something you don’t want to write
How does this make sense ❓
That Did Not Happen In The Book. She Ran Away Because He Was So Good To Her That She Thought She Was Unworthy Of Love, Because Of Her Past.
@@GFAprodite ma’am did you watch the video?
you missed the point of the story
I received this book as a Christmas gift when I was 12. I read it in one sitting the first time and it was my favorite book for more than a decade, so I probably read it 20+ times. I hadn’t read it in a few years and tried to read it last month and I couldn’t get past the first three chapters. I wish I could go back in time and tell younger me that this wasn’t the type of love I should aspire to have, it would’ve saved me so much trauma ;-;
This book normalized the idea that I would never be good enough for a man, so I should do my best to keep the one that dared to love someone as dirty as me around. That brought so much hurt in the hands of a “Christian” man trying to “save” me. It also warped my understanding of sex work for years in ways that took a lot of effort and dedication to deconstruct. I wish I hadn’t read this book so early in my life.
Btw I don’t think my parents knew what the book contained, because they don’t really read, so I’m 99% sure the person at the bookstore recommended it to them for a CHILD
that is a horrifying thought that the bookstore employee thought it was appropriate for a child @@raquelinabook
a girl i went to school with was allowed to read this book, but was not allowed to read the mortal instruments…
TMI has its own issues with its author, but it’s just so strange imo
I was indoctrinated into a cult church when i was 23. I was a young single mom looking for a greater purpose. This book was given to me to read so I could know what it meant to be a "woman worthy of redemption." Needless to say, I am almost 50 now. I have spent YEARS deconstructing that experience and teachings like this. Thank you for bringing this to light on your channel.
I am so sorry. I hope you are in a much better place now.
When you mentioned a sapphic book with a woman escaping a similar situation but with the end result of emancipation and female agency I immediately thought, you’re in luck! That’s basically Fingersmith by Sarah Waters. It explores themes of patriarchal control, female agency and desire, and the myopia of the male gaze and how it strips women of the capacity for complex interiority. Would be an excellent counterpoint comparison to this book I imagine! That’s a high recommendation from me. Much love ❤ appreciate what you do.
Ageeed! And Fingersmith is so much better-written too :)
And adapted into a great and (intentionally) horror Korean movie, The Handmaiden.
Also adapted into a limited series I think by the BBC, EXCELLENT
Came to the comments section specifically hoping someone recced Fingersmith!
ooo that's on my Libby wishlist, maybe it's time for me to finally check it out lol
I grew up “non-denominational” Christian. I have worked too hard in therapy working through religious trauma to dive into something like this! 😂
Diving into this kind of content continuously reassures me that my religious trauma is 1 million percent real and I’m not actually overthinking it all. I haven’t taken myself to therapy yet but good on you for going
This book is a horror novel. This entire book is just Michael, a rapist and abuser, getting so mad at Sarah/Angel for wanting to be treated like a human, that multiple times he has to fight the urge to not kill her.... That is so disturbing to say the very least.
Oh my GOD I've been waiting for this one. So many Christian women I know think this book is the definition of romance and I read some parts and I was just EXTREMELY uncomfortable with it. I recently met one of the people who worked on publishing it (long story. I could not stand her btw, she was awful and hyper-evangelical and judgemental) and everything I heard about the book was red flags. (She also said a ton of stuff about how you always have to mirror God and the Bible in whatever and how all women are supposed to be a man's help-meet and I was just disgusted by her.)
The funny thing is that the Bible is pretty explicit on some women being okay single. 1 Corinthians 7. If we want to be that strict about things, marriage is NOT the only or better Biblical course of action.
I remember watching Ex Fundie Diaries’ multi part video series on this last year. I was absolutely shocked at the fact that this wasn’t just written, but sold as a romance and people bought into it
Oh, you saw that review, too?
@@ErinPrimettei did!
Purity culture is extreme horror. Now I'm glad my fundie mom wouldn't let me read anything with more than holding hands and kissing. At least I never had to read this.
Girl, when you said "at the age eight" my brain was begging you to add the syllable een, and it still would have been awful, but this...
This is the perfect horror book for halloweekend
facts
I remember being reprimanded by church leaders for reading non-christian books before church services or at youth group events. They only wanted me reading "good" Christian literature or the Bible. There were no other options. Francine Rivers was definitely one of the writers they continuously tried to get me to read.
I remember my ex who is super Christian (I'm not at all) compared our relationship to the story of Hosea and not long after I broke it off because I realized he saw me as someone to "save" for not believing
I am so happy you got away!
I can relate so hard to how excited you got when you couldn't remember the bible song. That was me when I couldn't remember the bible pledge my school made me say everyday, multiple times a day, for years. I was so happy it was finally starting to leave my brain 🙏
i can remember how it started but i wont put it here because trigger much? lol
This reminds me of people who read the parable of the lost sheep and assert that when the shepherd goes to find the lost sheep, he _breaks the sheep’s leg_ so it has to stay near him as it heals and will learn to love and be dependent on him.
WHAT
@@lulucool45 I’m serious, this is an interpretation people have. “Because the Shepherd so loved His sheep, He would break their legs to keep them alive.” That way the sheep won’t run away and be disobedient! It’s _horrifying._
that whole chapter is literally about God taking in those who stray away with open, unjudging arms. how do you get THAT from it??
@@screamingwhales4031 I guess they can’t fathom the idea that a sheep could go astray and then be found with no consequences to the sheep.
I had a relatively nice experience in my 12 years of catholic school, but I ended up leaving anyway because the jump from our youth groups into "church for adults" made us feel disillusioned. Like in this book, suddenly marriage was about "being chosen" instead of making an active choice, and the connection with god was suddenly put in a very strict hierarchy. Going to mass outside of school was very eye-opening. We didn't feel strongly abouy religion, we felt strongly about the group of friends we had.
Read it at the school board but dont specify what book it is until people react
I actually did this with song of solomon
came back to tell you i did this at the school board with redeeming love and they were mad
@@ReadswithRacheloh my god you’re my actual hero
28:31 I want a fanfic version of this involving a character being a friend and helping angel get out and finding self worth without bloodthirsty zealots like micheal.
I am a Christian and I thought this book was pure TRASH. I lost all respect for Rivers when I read this. If she had wanted to write a book about "redeeming love" she couldn't have failed more spectacularly. This book was pure trauma. I would never in a million years recommend this book to anyone. It's a dark mark on the genre of Christian romance...and fiction in general.
Just a little reframing would probably make this into a terrifying horror novel
Im a devout Christian and im a minister. This book and story disgusted me, it trivializes the abuse endurced my the main character and as you said promoted SA by a spouse. These are things that are not helpful to anyone and I'm irritated other Christians on this site ARE NOT PICKING UP ON THAT
This!
Suddenly *really* happy that the church I grew up going to was so against even mentioning sex that this book wasn't something recommended to us.
WHAT PART of this is romantic?! WHERE was the romance? Did I blink and miss it?
27:51 That's ironic considering how the Pilgrims dug up Native American graves for food and supplies.
30:08 Michael Hosea: "You've suffered so I'm giving you a choice: Follow me out into the woods, where you'll probably be murdered, or stay in the cabin where I'll keep telling you, that you have a choice, while denying you the ability to leave."
Fun fact: Davis County in Utah, a very Mormon community, briefly banned the Bible in schools. I’m exmo and grew up in Davis County and this is very funny to me. Unfortunate that it didn’t last
oh my god, my grandma's friends chose this movie for their friday night hangout and brought me with them to see it. Truly could not explain the revulsion I felt sitting through it- truly, one of the worst things I've ever seen. They all loved it but to me it was a horror movie. I can only imagine how awful the book is.
As someone whose family was not particularly religious growing up I’ve learned so much from your reviews of Christian fiction and your talking about your life experiences, it’s really allowed me to identify religious influence and propaganda in the world around me!
Totally gonna write that sapphic book now, what a terrible “romance” hearing that this was considered a thing for teens to aspire to makes me so grateful to my parents for taking such a firm stance on letting me come to my own conclusions about religion (or in my case lack of religion)
(Sorry if there are any errors it’s pretty late at night rn)
i'd never heard of this book before (the mormonism i grew up in would probably clutch pearls over depicting a sex worker at all) but i'm only 30 mins into the video and HOOOLY SHIT YIKES 😱 the thought of giving this book to girls/teens/young women as a 'good example' of ANYTHING is *horrifying*....
Apart from the entirety of the book sounding horrifying, I am glad you mentioned that jealousy is not love. Even in non fundy books, jealousy gets touted as being a cute sign of love. NO my dudes, real love is based on TRUST (especially trusting the other not to schmape them)
Julie: I want The Bluest Eye banned because there's a scene where the main character gets SAed by her dad 😡
School Board: Okay, well in Redeeming Love, the husband shows absolutely no regard for his wife's autonomy. Should we ban that too?
Julie: Oh no! It's a good Christian book that teaches girls how to be godly wives 🥰
So, to sum up, Christian Grey would have been perfect for fundies if he was a devout Christian.
my sister tried to make me read this book. She gave it to me and kept insisting that i read it. This was after i started to leave fundamentalism because of my own abuse. I read the first chapter got hella triggered and refused to read the rest of it. Now im hella glad that I did because my sister was clearly trying to rebrain wash me. Now she's in a horrible abusive relationship and i am with the person of my dreams who treats me well. sooooo, uh yeah, one of us learned about what a healthy relationship looks like and the other used this book as dating advice.
Whelp, glad to know my American Catholic experience is just as nutz as this unfortunately published piece of work. 🙃 Oh, my childhood/adolescent trauma...
Also....I like the "fear" of indigenous people digging up a grave... when, like, the barista who makes my coffee in the mornings was telling how they're trying to locate the descendants of an indigenous person who BODY was in THE BASEMENT of some white woman's house because of a "spiritual connection". You have to be more worried about a white woman stealing the remains of an unrelated human being because their spidey senses told them to, just saying.
To clarify my barista is a forensics MA student.
The rainbow eyeshadow youve got on is amazing and i adore it
This book reminds me of Maybe not by Colleen Hoover (if you take out the Christianity). Literally down to child SA and being “saved” by the male MC who… explicitly assaults her several times to prove his love? This shit’s fucking scary istg.
oh my god I know this book, my youth pastor's wife set up a book club for 6th to 12th grade girls when I was in high school and this was the first book she chose! Wild story: I was super uncomfortable with it even just a few chapters in and decided to quit going. When I told her I wasn't going to continue going because I thought it was *highly* inappropriate for *6th grade girls* to be reading this, she tried to convince me to come back. I turned her down flat and stopped attending. Years later, when the movie came out, I told my mom that was the book I was uncomfortable with -- and she told me this woman had tried to *go over my head* and convince my MOM to force me back to the book club! Hindsight's 20/20, but man oh man, that put some other things about my youth group experience in context -- and I wasn't even raised fundie. God, I'm so glad I didn't finish reading this book. Makes me wonder how the other girls in the group reacted to it, but I'm not in touch with any of them anymore.
Her ignoring your consent is totally in-line with the themes of the book with ignoring fem autonomy!
if this man was really a christian he would have nursed her back to health after being almost beaten to death and then given her all his money and house and left her alone
No True Scotsman logical fallacy
@@amytheshihtzumom lmao no, thats not a no true scotsman at all
This book was published the year I was married. I read it shortly thereafter as part of a book club. I promptly memory holed a lot of it. This book was the beginning of the end for me and Christian fiction.
To be honest, Francine Rivers was woefully inaccurate in her theology, but churches at the time (and currently, unfortunately) overlooked it because it fit the purity narrative.
The story of Hosea is a uniquely Jewish story. It is not a Christian story. The account of Hosea and Gomer is an analogy of God’s faithfulness to the Jewish people despite their unfaithfulness to him. You may agree or disagree with the details of the story itself. Francine had no right to appropriate it in the horrific way she did. This book is offensive on SO many levels. It is rot from the very first word.
The answer to your question about why this book is allowed and others aren’t is easy. They will say ‘redemption’ - lol. They will say that the girl is redeemed at the end of the story just like God redeems us. I call bullshit, but that’s what the response will be. I know their catch phrase answers before the questions are even asked. It’s very frustrating to have a conversation with a fundie who think apologetics is the epitome of intelligence.
As a Christian, I want ear bleach. What in the SWERF is this😔
I wish I could say it’s SWERF shit but it’s worse because SWERFs are feminists (shitty ones but like at least they want some women to have rights) whereas this is straight up sexism
But like unequivocally in unapologetically I say fuck SWERFs I can’t stand those bitches 😂
What makes me mad about this book (aside from all the other shit in this book that is obviously infuriating) is that it COULD have been super romantic if he heard about her cabin in the woods dreams and he went and bought her or built her a cabin in the woods, no strings attached, so that she could escape her abysmal circumstances and be free like she wanted to be. He could have done that for her and said, "Hey, if you need me, I'll be over on my ranch" or whatever without any coercive elements whatsoever and it would have been a much better story. And she would have had agency to choose him later on. Instead Rivers wrote... this.
Interesting how all these women can write terrorized victims so well and yet call it romance 🤔 almost like they base it off their own perspective of romance, and yet somehow their MC is a traumatized from who reacts accordingly to being abused. What a weird connection 🤔
hmm i wonder why a novel by a Black woman dealing with the same themes as a novel by a white woman would be contested by Julie Gebhards 😒
The fact that Josiah’s story in the Bible is supposed to be about men being obedient and NOT the woman lol. The way some Christians just spin the Bible to fit their mysoginy is so scary
As a Christian, I have to say, what a mess this book is.
I'm tempted to write my own romance based on the Story of Hosea, just to show that a better one could be written, although I'd be more inclined to write one based on Ezekiel 23. There's something very compelling about the image of God scolding Israel in the voice of an aggrieved husband, complaining of his wife chasing after handsome foreign soldiers who were "hung like jackasses and spurted like stallions" (yes, that's exactly what Ezekiel said).
Oh my God, the original cuck
Do it just name it something different for copyright reasons good luck happy writing.
Ezequiel is so fun to study from a theological standpoint, his descriptions of angels are cool too.
@@shortinsomniac76 Ezekiel's angels were...don't even wanna go there... o_O
This is actually way more horrifying then the actual bible story, which is actually kind of impressive considering how wild the bible gets. Hosea's wife just kind of runs the streets and it's more like a cheating/forgiveness narrative.
Also the name Michael Hosea is so unserious 😂
Talking about triggers, it's rare that I've seen the usage of slurs to be the least problematic. This book did it, though.
My Papaw (grandpa) refinished the chest he made in junior high shop class ( the farthest schooling he had) for my hope chest. But my hope chest was filled with things like my own baby clothes, and items my family had bought for me FOR WHEN I got married.
I mean, that’s specifically what a hope chest is meant to be for
@AmbassadorKat my sister's hope chest was kept by my non secular mother was filled with MY SISTERS accomplishments throughout her life. Hope can be hope for anything and I think for most they hope their family has a greater things to celebrate than their getting married.
Misogyny really is something that a lot of evangelicals and a lot of romance authors share in common so I'm sadly not surprised this hateful trash is so popular.
So right off the bat the heroine is supposed to redeem herself for the crime of being a victim. yikes.
But the Bluest Eye says that these things are BAD
So she thinks it's inappropriate that the Bluest Eye condemns it
Omg this was that movie that came out last year where they had the lead female character wearing the corset upside down. Bernadette banner pointed it out in her overview of period movies from 2022.
Thank you for being so vulnerable in both your honesty and in your civil rights advocacy. It's surely not easy.
I grew up christian. Now I don't consider myself one anymore (maybe I never did), but my family and some of my friends are. One of the things they tought me is that evil exist because God WANTS us to have free will, so hearing takes like this is kinda shocking. Like, which distorted version of christianity are they teaching in America? When I think of God I think of someone who is always ready to help and accept you and put you on the right track, I have never felt real fear. Maybe a little guilt on occasions.
I've been very lucky, it seems.
The protestant hate towards catholics throws me every damn time. I was raised Roman Catholic in an Italian-American/Irish-American neighborhood and I'm just like.......... You realize catholicism came first right????????? Catholicism has it's own brand of fucked upness (high guilt complex) but still. Like how do fundies grapple with Catholicism and Greek Orthodoxy being closer to the origins of the church than any protestant or baptist church................. Is it even acknowledged?
Also becouse i grew up in a catholic country and no one ever talked about protestants. I dint't even knew about them until i was older, the chirch was way more worried about judaism or islam as "wrong paths".
I watched Ex-Fundie Diaries’ video on this, and it horrified me. Since I’m a masochist, I’m here for this.
as a current, practicing, Christian I never heard if this book... but I already hate it.
i am so sorry you had to read this, but we thank you for your sacrifice. you're one of my favorite booktubers and deserve the best 💗💗 (also sorry i'm legit 6 months late help)
There was a girl in my middle school who read this book bc her parents made her. She would sob and cry and pray loudly on the playground to not give her a life like Angel. Never knew why.
As someone who was never raised Christian (I was raised Theravada Buddhist by immigrant parents) reading all these comments is so wild. 😢
Yeah I've noticed there's a definite trend of people ignoring certain things in Christian books that they would have a hissy fit about if it was in a non-religious book. For example, when I was around 15, my mom gave me permission to read the A.D. Chronicles, a series featuring prolific amounts of consensual and nonconsensual sexual content, pedophilia, homophobia, torture, child sexual assault, sex work, heck, probably lots of antisemetism and racism. But it was all no big deal because they were in books about Biblical figures :D definitely would not have been allowed to read non-Christian books containing such content though
A consensual, sapphic version would slap, but I also want a version where halfway through the book, she just fucking kills and robs him lol.
(I know that sometimes, abuse/SA and revenge stories can be just about as tasteless and exploitative, but when it's handled correctly, I can't help but find it cathartic)
I remember being in high school and asking one of my friends about the book she was reading. She explained that it was a modern retelling of the book of Hosea set in the Wild West, and one of the only romance books her parents (whom I now realize were devout fundies) allowed her to read. I was raised with a different interpretation of Hosea and God's love, so when I asked some questions about what I thought would be a book about unconditional love, I now understand why she made a conflicted face and dropped the subject. I've read a lot of "trashy" smut, but I feel like this is worse because it's portrayed as an ideal rather than a titillating fantasy contained inside book and mind. I can't imagine anyone reading this book and saying "Yeah that's some ideal love right there."
Every time I watch a video involving fundie (or Christian in general) teachings, I think I reach a new level of horror and disgust - and I unlock a new memory of thinking "Well that's weird" during weekly non-denominational in-school sermons led by my classmates' religious leaders. I could count on one hand the number of non-fundie sermons I attended, to the point that I learned to sleep sitting up and staring at the Bible because inevitably one of the regulars would say something messed up and I'd realize they weren't worth listening to. Even so, these fundie religious leaders managed to traumatize me and I'd stopped attending church after 8th grade - and my church wasn't even fundie!
I think about this book a lot. I was definitely not given it by church or parents - can say with almost 100% certainly that my mom would not have allowed me to read it if she knew what was in it. The media I was allowed to consume was so extremely controlled that this was the first book with any real erotic content that I read. I was obsessed!
I still think there’s something very interesting about it. I’ve tried before to find the original version, cause I’m dying to know what it was like before it got Christianed!
I think the main thing that keeps it from being good is that it’s not allowed to be just a story, it’s also a metaphor. Michael isn’t just some guy, he’s also god. Because of this, the narrative can’t really admit that he’s super fucked up. I think there’s possibly a really interested book in the story of two very fucked up people. Michael is the son of an abusive father and a damn slave owner (love the scene where he talks about his father trying to toughen him up by forcing him to rape an enslaved woman, and Michael is like “I had to flee the temptation of sex before marriage!” without any reflection on, you know, the whole slavery thing.)
Since Michael is also a metaphor for god, everything he does has to get a gloss of spirituality. He falters a little, but he’s a good Christian man, so there never any real reckoning. But if he was allowed to be a man, then there’d be a lot about him having a crazy savior complex and using that to cover up his own trauma. He’d really have to reckon with the way he damaged Angel (using that name since it’s the one she insists over and over that she be called) while trying to make her better. There’s SO much room for that character to come to terms with himself and realize how much he has hurt others.
Angel is an incredibly compelling character to me, and any time I try to fix the narrative in my head there’s just no way it ends with her romantically linked with Michael. I’d like to see her actually getting that little cabin she wants of her own and finding a way to build a sense of self she never had. I really like the section where she’s living free in SF; helping to rescue other trafficked girls and set them on their feet seems like a very healing path for her.
Also I’ve always HATED the ending with her magically having babies. Wouldn’t it have been much better for her to have found peace with her inability to have children? And even take in other rescued victims? It was such a massive source of pain for her the whole book, that her suddenly being able to have kids just… cheapens it. Also her stripping off all her clothes and falling to Michael’s feet to beg his forgiveness is just nasty.
as a muslim girl, this book HORRIFIED me. i do not understand this rhetoric that women need men to redeem them from sinning. women have their own autonomy and we can choose to do whatever we want. the premise that this main character was trafficked AS A CHILD and then “saved” is insane to me. she isn’t even saved! she is put through another cycle of abuse! in my opinion, this should not be given to anyone who is a minor or suffers religious trauma! this paints an extremely unhealthy and abusive dynamic. i swear there are glimmers of my grandparents’ relationship in this book, not the sexual stuff, just the odd power dynamic.
Someone get this book banned. I know it's a slippery slope of tit-for-tat but even if it wasn't Christian I'd be worried
Nothing gets a book read faster than banning it. This isnt the 1700s, its not like you can shut down the one printing press publishing it. Even bacl then people were sharing banned books together
I stay the hell away from books that call themselves "christian" romance. This is why. I also avoid "clean" romance books because the purity culture is prevalent in most of them. Just the label they use implies smutty books are dirty and unclean. At least to me it feels very judgmental.
Reminder that protestantism probably wouldn't have happened and we'd all still be Catholic if Henry Tudor didn't want to divorce his wife
Once again I get to blame a divorce for my issues but this time it’s not my own parents
If you want something set in the south, during the industrial revolution, with positive representations of qu*er folk and s*x work but that also has lovecraftian horror and American folk mythology the I cannot recommend the podcast Old God's of Appalachia enough!
As an ex-christian I can testify that the scumbag male protagonist exosts in real life in plenty of churches.
I remember thinking my high school boyfriend was like Michael.
Looking back... He kind of was.
i remember going to the movies and randomly picking this and i was so horrified and that was the last time i picked a movie blindy - 20usd ill never get back
theatre should have given you your money back plus interest tbh
It's so weird how the book doesn't seem to realize that it's just treating women like literal property that men can literally fight over, and god will reward the best Christian guy with owning her.
I read a few other Francine Rivers books as a teen and they are all like this. The romance novels I got from the public library (usually from the 80s) had the same plots but no religious focus, so I was very confused why I was encouraged to read Francine but not the secular romance novels.
Ex-Fundie Diaries on TH-cam did a whole series on this book. It’s … absolutely crazy. My fundie friend was in college when this blew up and it was basically like twilight for fundie how hard the chokehold was on young adult women
Damn, it is SO good to see someone criticize the disgusting side of Christianity without lumping us all together with them! My parents have always been fairly progressive and very much of the belief that God doesn't hate anyone, no matter what. They also would certainly, as do I, take offence at SMUT BEING USED AS A RELIGIOUS METAPHOR!? AND ESPECIALLY THIS OF ALL THINGS. Cripes on crepes, if I'd been exposed to this book at any point growing up, all the violent flames of righteous anger would have flared up within my tiny little body, and the people in charge would NEVER hear the end of it
the thing about it for me is, that you can't have a relationship with a parent or spouse if they are trying to be a stand-in for God. People are flawed. God is not. My relationship with God is not the same as the relationship I had with my dad growing up and if it was, I would've dropped this religion a long time ago. this year has been one of the worst of my life. I was pink-slipped and had to get unemployment which only lasted for 3 months before they told me to reapply for it next year, I thought I was going to get evicted. Then, just when I thought all hope was lost, I get a call from a recruiter that said he had a few temp jobs open and I was able to pay my rent and now I can save money again. I thank God for that because He was there when I couldn't rely on anyone else and He will always be there even when family and friends fail you time and time again.
You mentioned "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" and all of these horrible memories flooded back to me 🤣 It was literally one of the things my youth group forcibly imposed on us as a way to ensure our "relationship to God" and we weren't even fundy. Hell, we would probably be progressive looking to other churches.
My mom forced me to read it but I think I just faked it becuase I found it boring😅
It really is just proselytizing instead of any plot or anything. I don't have anything else to say because this is truly horrifying in multiple ways.
Edit: for a better book, I might recommend The Tenant of Wildfell Hall by Anne Bronte, which is about a woman who escapes an abusive husband, taking her son and residing as a tenant elsewhere.
Although the Brontës all wrote many toxic men who they portrayed as heroes. I get that it was over 160 years ago, but ... I get the shudders about "Wuthering Heights".
@@nancyjay790 Perhaps I just read it differently. But I thought the entire point of Wuthering Heights was how toxic the relationship was and how terrible they were for and to not just each other, but everyone around them? There's nothing romantic or idealised about it or the portrayal of Heathcliffe.
@@nancyjay790 Cathy was pretty damned toxic as well.
I'm only 10 minutes in, but I already have a theory as to why the author would take a victim of trafficking and call her a prostitute and imply some sort of choice in the matter. She needs her to be a "sinner" in order to be redeemed, but she doesn't have the courage to make her so sinful that she would actually have sex for money of her own free will. Because I suppose the author and her target audience will only accept redemption up to a point. Sort of like Ana from FSoG is super down to earth and not like other girls because she doesn't want the expensive cars and clothes but Christian is forcing them on her, so what's a girl to do but submit? Angel gets to be a sinner but not an active participant in said sin, so God and the LI can still love her, and the Fundies can root for her without having to really challenge their world-views. Like how, maybe, having sex for fun and/or profit is not a sin.
I grew up baptist and my mom told me I shouldn't read this until I got married but like...why would I? Horrifying story