Was the the vehicle in this video at capacity? Yes, but it’s rather confusing how we get there. The combined truck + trailer weight in this video is 39,840 lbs (with no people). The combined weight rating is 43,000 lbs - which you’d reasonably assume we’re down 3,000 lbs. However, the vehicle’s Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (just the weight on the truck) is 14,000 lbs, and we’re at 13,700 pounds (without driver, but with the tongue weight of the trailer) in this vehicle, so we’re hitting max GVW before hitting max GCW. Why? Because this is a Limited truck, not the base truck, which will have a lower curb weight with few features, smaller cab, 2WD, etc. So while the base truck would have a GCWR of 43,000 lbs, you would never achieve that with the Limited version due to the base weight of the vehicle. Meaning? Your truck has a maximum amount it can weigh, your trailer has a maximum amount it can weigh, and your truck + trailer has a maximum amount it can weigh. In this video, the limiting factor was the truck’s 14,000 lb GVW, which allowed for a trailer weight of 30,645.
14,000 lb grocery-getter. . . that occasionally tows. My 6000 lb Navigator feels like an RV. . . . 14k? At least you win in almost every non CDL collision.
@@snap-off5383 Just to make sure I'm not communicating this poorly, the truck itself weighs about 9,000 lbs. The additional 5,000 pounds to make 14k are from the tongue weight of the trailer.
@@EngineeringExplained I understood that from your beginning explanation and then ran my pie hole anyway without thinking. Still 9000 lbs a new one of those should come with its own Prius to encourage you not to let your trophy wife use it to commute
If someone did not already know these facts and/or can not understand the concepts being set out in this video and the comment above. That person has no business operating vehicles of this size and capacity.
Good question Chris! I asked when I was there and they said around 2014, so anything later than that. But likely it's something you should be able to find depending on the manufacturer. Ford, Chevy, Toyota, & Ram, should all be using this for their ratings today.
@@9HighFlyer9 Actually J2807 was first issued in 2008. It has been revised since then. Most manufacturers staggered their rollout (waiting for a new vehicle design): Toyota started for 2011 MY, The Big Three agreed to start in 2013 with Ford stating it would apply as new redesigns happened. F-150 used J2807 in 2015; GM and Chrysler waited until after the F-150 launched. Complying with J2807 meant that the reported tow ratings on all tested vehicles dropped and all manufacturers were afraid to be the first to "look bad" to customers not familiar with the stringent J2807 test. Note that some of the revisions to J2807 were about how to classify and test heavy-duty pickups. Also note that all this test requires is that you state a target and pass it (a certified minimum performance). Your vehicle might actually be capable of better but you could be trading off a safety factor for manufacturing variability, want to report higher performance (as the Ram showed), or looking to improve other attributes like ride comfort. Also note this testing applies to SUVs, crossovers, minivans...anything with a listed tow rating. In general passing the test is hardest for the pickups because their rated towing is so much higher than the weight of the vehicle. That's just the physics of a heavy object being pulled by a lighter object --> tail wants to wag the dog.
Yeah, towing capacity is great. What would be even better is if people realized they shouldn't be driving 10-15 mph over the speed limit while towing a trailer.
And shouldn't be tailgating ever. All those pathetic excuses tailgaters use on the internet are lame even for passenger cars (they always say "STAY IN THE RIGHT LANE THEN" as if they only tailgate people driving slow in the passing lane in the highway, which isn't true at all) are even lamer for people towing trailers and for semis. Drive safely.
@@mjc0961 they think being two feet away from your bumper will get them there faster. That way when you move to right lane, they can speed up to 90 to hurry up and get behind the next person they're goina tail gate. On 3-4 lane rush hour city highways it's even stupider. Drives me crazy
@@matthewmcclain1316 Niether of you are wrong. The point still stands that the left lanes are for passing. If people are passing you on the left *and* the right you should probably get over.
@@maybach6536 it's ridiculous for semi trucks though. A semi truck is very stable at speed. Otherwise Wyoming and Nevada would be chock full of semis wrecked by unstable trailers.
Thanks for covering this topic! I always wondered what was behind these numbers or if it was just marketing blowing as much smoke up our backsides as the lawyers would allow.
@@Matticus289 not really. Its a spec. They pass or they dont. The acceleration spec is pretty broad. So why doesnt ford or gm tow 10k more than the ram since they have 50hp more? Because they cant stop more weight! Because they cant keep the truck cool going up the Davis dam. Making the spec more realistic than just marking bs.
As a vehicle enthusiast I am into all kind of vehicles. Cars, trucks, trains, ships... As a marine engineer I am into large diesel engines. Basically I am into everything that runs on fossil fuel.
The real cause of overloaded induced accidents is the towed vehicle being overloaded, improperly loaded, or towed too fast. How many 5th wheels limit their highway speed to 65mph? None. Yet, ALL trailer tires are ST rated which has a maximum speed of 65mph. Ever see a 5th wheel owner take his rig to a scale to verify axle weight and weight distribution? Very few do. Even fewer towed behind travel trailers check their weights. The real problem is not the tow vehicle, rather it is the towed vehicle and driver. With modern ABS, the trucks are safer than ever. Lack of proper trailer brake set up and understanding by the driver in proper use is the weak link in the chain. Ask the average person what the settings on their brake control do to the brakes and they won't even come close to the correct answers.
They should account for this and specify that tests must be performed with an overloaded single axle dog-tracking home-made trailer with asymmetric braking that has been loaded as improperly as physically possible. (Everything in the back OR everything in the front)
im a rv transporter and usually run at 70mph. at 90 degrees 68mph max. 100 degrees 65 mph max. if its cold outside and im in a hurry i run 72. never any more. ive gone 11 hours straight at 72. with my 30 min break of course 😉 and they put the cheapest tires on these trailers. never had a blow out from going too fast....just sayin
@@xenonram your dealership can, on most OBDII compliant vehicles, recalibrate the speedometer for other than original tire size. I have a tool capable of doing so on my trucks.
@Abstractism No, in the US you CAN get a ticket for being even 1mph off the speed limit, but usually you won't. I have driven past cops going 10mph over and not gotten pulled over, but generally 5mph over is a safer bet. But I do have a friend who got a ticket for being 1mph over. The real kicker is she was leaving a town and the sign for an increased speed limit was right in front of her, but technically she hadn't passed it yet.
The conversion won't help in court either - if you are driving over the limit (say at 40mph in a 60kmh zone), the judge will say you are speeding because 60kmh is actually 37.3mph - and you testified you were doing 40, so speeding. Only 50 and 100kmh err on the 'larger mph' side; all other common speed limits are actually below the rounded up mph - so they get you. Just another tax.
Thank you Jason for a solid behind the scenes look at tow rating. Having been involved in some of this testing, I know the industry takes this procedure seriously. It's also an example of an industry regulating itself instead of yet more government regulations. The U.S. government accepts the data from this SAE procedure instead of creating yet another FMVSS test procedure.
Hey Jason your videos are really great. Putting all the math and science behind what is really going on and how we get there. They are so fun to watch. I would love to see more videos of you doing your thing with trucks.
tankerboysabot considering their name, I’d expect a fairly substantial trailer setup. Our 20’ enclosed with car and all is about 9000lbs. We have a friend with a 35’ goose neck which is loaded up with much more and I bet is nearer to 15-16k. For a dual car hauler, I can anticipate even more.
@@5AXISDLOCKHART Optimal, but not a cheap rig. Depends how much use will be there. Continous usage hardly sitting, its a no brainer. Half the year sitting, half not a 1 ton will be plenty.
@@brandoncaldwell95 We started with a 1 ton. After the first trip in the big rig we realized we should have gotten it way sooner. When on our way to or from the track : Need to take a whiz, get up and walk to the bathroom. Want some hot food, walk back and throw something in the microwave. And so on. Probably the nicest thing was having our own shower at the track. Search racingjunk. You can find many older toters for less than a new pickup.
I once pulled a 65 cadillac behind my bagged crew cab half-ton on a 18ft bumper-pull from Arkansas to Texas and back. No trailer brakes, and the load was a good bit heavier than the truck itself... I can assure you that this was the best, most informative video, that I have ever seen. haha.
Jason, first off I’ve been with the channel since sub 100,000 subscribers and I greatly appreciate the work you put into each video and the wealth of knowledge I have gained from your work. Never the less I was sitting here finally getting to read my October issue of car and driver and I flip the page and there you are, a full article in what I consider the best car mag out today. I legit said out loud hell yeah that’s awesome even tho I’m at the house by myself. Simply put You should be very proud of what you’ve accomplished and again I appreciate all the hard work that you put into each video for us subscribers!!!
The ever increasing HP/tow weight ratings on Class C trucks is exactly why the laws changed here in CA recently, with all types of trailers over 10K lbs requiring a Class A. Most people are not properly trained or qualified to tow heavy loads, regardless of if their truck can, and that's a problem. A regular 3/4 or 1 ton pickup hauling more than 10K lbs of trailer and load requires the same, if not better attention and driver inputs than a semi hauling 40K lbs. Why?......is all about duty cycle. Big trucks are heavier and overbuilt to handle far more weight than most of them are usually hauling (80K lbs gross combined weight is the standard max, which works out to about 50K lbs of cargo in most scenarios). More weight than that means you need more axles/tires or permits, or both. Tires, roads and structures like bridges are the limiting factors, not the truck's abilities. My Peterbuilt doesn't even notice a load on its trailer that is under 30K lbs, which means at 60% of its normal duty rating... the truck isn't even trying. That's talking accel, braking, stability and steering feel. Now go and put 60% of the rating of one of these pickups on a trailer (about 14K lbs not including trailer tare) and tell me the truck drives and behaves the same as when its empty!
@@robertryan7204 Unfortunately, escalation is the most common tactic used when building competing vehicle. Much like HP ratings, if the towing/hauling capacities of your offering are less than the competitors (or last year's model) then the manufacturers fear nobody will buy their product, or they will at least miss out on bragging rights. As this tactic goes on for many years, you eventually start to blur the lines between classes of vehicle that were once clearly defined by their differences in capability. The same phenomenon of one-upsmanship has occurred with sport bikes over the last 20 years, with top level street bikes being barely distinguishable from full-bred race bikes, and only the most capable riders being able to fully utilize their potential.
@@84gssteve Totally agree, but when it gets to the point that what the perceived capabilities are much more than what a novice driver can cope with, then it is becoming dangerous
I'm honestly surprised that many states haven't started requiring higher level licenses for RVs. I've had RV/trailer combos pass me and be nearly my length, and I pull a 53'.
An in-depth look at trailer sway would make for a really interesting (and informative) future video. Not just front-rear balance but also distance from axles (polar moment of inertia), hitch type/design, and speed. Plus an overview of the general concept of sway damping ratio.
Great stuff. I have been directly involved with evaluating both braking systems and cooling systems for another vehicle manufacturer. Testing was done on Baker Grade in Baker, CA and at Death Valley, all at max trailer weight and very high ambient temperatures. Pretty crazy seeing brakes catch on fire.
The grade launch is really going to test the u-joints and drive shaft. I've seen so many trucks snap a u-joint launching on the steep grade next to my work.
I used to work at a Dodge dealership years ago, and one day we had a 1 ton dually pickup towed in for repair. It had turned it's driveshaft into a pretzel. It was owned by the provincial transit company (GO Transit), and they had tried to pull one of the passenger coach with it in the marshalling yard. (think of a double-decker Amtrak passenger car). The coaches weigh about 134,000 lb. The motor had the torque, but the driveshaft thankfully was the weak link, otherwise I think they would have cooked the tranny.
This is so ultra cool and I appreciate your sharing it. One thing these ratings never accommodate is frontal area. This sled trailer is easier to tow than a fifth wheel or travel trailer that adds a lot of aerodynamic drag. But, still, this is very, very cool and well explained as always.
Great video, it shows how much effort (and thus cost) is required to have a tow rating, which explains why some seemingly tow-capable cars like the Chevy Bolt aren't rated or 'recommended' for towing.
A few years ago, I read J2807. I then asked SAE why there is a difference between SRW and DRW vehicles. They told me that dually were commercial and singles were not. I don't believe there should be any difference --- if someone pulls out in from of me and accelerates, I really don't care if they are dually's or not!!
@@michaelborisenko9432 This was an assumption on their party. In reality, there are many non-commercial users of duallys pulling heavy loads and I can see no useful need for differentiating between SRW and DRW pickups.
Smart kid. Thanks for the informative video. I’m not sure if this old dog can learn how to figure out this new trick, but I can learn where to get really cool info. Thanks Engineering Explained.
Jason you are getting gray! I did not realize you have been around so long since it cannot be because of the stress of your job. More seriously, as a civil engineer degreed years and years ago I have always loved the ability to to do some quick math to either justify what one is seeing in the real world or to help explain what is happening. You do a great job, and as you are now obviously maturing perhaps you can be a little less frenetic. All the best,
The idea was to demonstrate the opposite, that all these companies saying "watch us tow 1,000,000 pounds" but really they wouldn't meet their own requirements for towing that capacity.
I have often wondered what the point of failure would be for certain trucks with respect to their tow ratings. In other words if you pick a Colorado with a 7,000 lb tow rating, which of these tests would it fail first if you keep adding weight. And which ever test it fails, would that be the same test most trucks would fail first or are the limits quite varied? My assumption has always been that the Davis Dam test is usually the limiting factor for most trucks.
True that. Ive seen upwards of 60,000lbs on a 1 ton pulling and controlling it perfectly fine. Mind you, it was a gooseneck with 4 axles and a dozer on its back.
So often I see half-ton trucks towing loads that certainly exceed the rated towing capacity of the truck, even before accounting for the loaded weight of the truck. Just because the truck will pull the load doesn't mean you have any margin at all when conditions are less than optimal ... such as emergency braking.
Absolutely right. I have a Ford F150 rated to tow something like 12,000 lbs. I regularly tow a camper with a max weight of 7500 lbs. I would not tow anything much heavier. Plenty of power to move it, but you have to account for stopping, cross winds, cornering, lane changes, etc. Better safe than sorry.
Yep, funny when you see people talk about how their 3500 can tow 30k lbs and it makes 1000lb ft. Even though they don't have a CDL to tow that much and it's not safe at all to tow that much. My truck makes less than 700lb ft and Id rather tow 30k lbs on it than any pick up truck
This is the only guy that i know that can keep you confused and interested at the same time. Im actally interested by this guy but i can imagine other ppl who are both confused and interested
I live nearby the Davis Dam run mentioned towards the end of he video. Can't tell you how many times I've seen vehicles from the nearby FCA proving grounds, all dressed up in prototype camouflage, making that run up the hill
How do they control for different ways of loading the trailer? It seems that could make a difference in the handling portion of the test. And following on from that, what design factors can engineers control to affect something like trailer sway? Thanks for all the great content!
Great to see how manufacturers must test their vehicles in a standardized way. But, braking from only 20 mph! What kind of safety test is that? I want to know I can stop from 65 mph while going downhill. Thanks for the great videos.
I'm curious as to how they get tongue weight ratings as well. In the Chevy Colorado groups, there's been some misnomers as to why the frames are bending when folks are bombing down dirt roads with massive trailers, and blaming GM for under-engineering their platforms to save cost. These folks arent understanding crumple zones, and the forces at hand on the chassis/frame, hitch and other components.
Often your explanations are very detailed in depth and sorry but sometimes engineering is very boring, although I do learn things. Nice explanation, I already knew about this and you did a very good non-boring explanation, YEAH. Nothing personal engineering can be mind numbing boring.. Thank you for the video.
One time I pulled 16,000 pounds with a GMC Sierra 1500. It was extremely sketchy and even just switching to a gas 2500hd with a 6.0 and pretty much the same engine power and pulled same load and it was 2-3 times easier to pull. It’s amazing the difference frame brakes gearing and suspension have
Great video, as the owner of a truck that tows many thousands of pounds sometimes, this is very important to know. I did have a question as of to where the up hill test is performed in Arizona? (I live in the Devil's Den)
It sounds like something to do with Hoover Dam. That much steady climb without relent is only available in a few areas, and most of those are in SoCal. Flagstaff has a brutal climb, but the temps aren't that high at the top, though at the bottom in Phoenix they are... but that climb isn't steady, it's several whoops.
Even though the Ram doesn't have the highest, torque, horsepower, or towing ratings, it made a very impressive show in these tests. This showing is what you'd expect from all of the HD trucks from the big three. The bottom line is; how much does this performance cost, who delivers the most bang for the buck?
They did have the highest tq rating till the 2020 ford superduty numbers were released. Ram 1000ft lb, GM 910 ft lbs, 2020 ford 1050 ft lbs (935ft lb 2019 model)
Very Interesting. Truck have to be overpowered for their gross weight to be able to pull that much, not because they are "sport" vehicle. I have driven some Semi truck and yes, the over-steering make sens. crazy, I never realized that it was intentional, in truck design. I wonder how those tow rating are determined for cars. Because some cars , that are exactly the same In car US Canada and Europe, have 2X the tow rating in Europe?
Actually it makes sense. As I drive 2019 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7 liter straight six Cummins. But you stated that Ram in your video is showing 2WD? Mine is 4WD and I can safely pull 31,260 lbs total with two full size trucks loaded on my goose neck big Tex trailer. My truck did the job without any complaints. It's pretty stout engine with over thousand pounds of torque. I love my truck!!
I find it interesting that this test is done without having the towing vehicle loaded to it's maximum weight. If the vehicle is not a flat bed truck but has plenty of storage volume itself, that can make quite a difference.
can you have a video explaining what are the basis of standards set for the testing, eg. why 12 seconds or 14 seconds acceleration, or why 45ft braking distance, why 100F temperature etc...
This rating system is great, pity here in Australia they have nothing so demanding, every day there are accidents caused by under rated tow vehicles. Another thing, i know it would be extra work but i would like to see the metric system employed in your uploads. Ie: kph , kg, etc.
U need a CDL A to pull if tow vehicle is over 10k lbs and trailer is over 6k as per Federal DOT. You will get big fine impound ...I did. Also tiny brakes, clutches and transmission in these will not last towing maximum load. Drum Electric brakes crappy on mountains and never hold equally in reverse on brake s will slip in reverse down hill but discs best and hold. Most new class 5 and 7 trucks have ABS air brakes also which are much safer.I have 40 years exp moving cranes heavy equipment and boats. Excellent work Thanks
Yes, and I want to see that for semi trucks as well. My 2019 cascadia is practically neutered, but I've seen some pushing 150hp more than mine by just deleting and retuning.
Wouldn't the 'sway test' be more dependent on the trailer type and load? I've seen those videos of toy cars on treadmills where they move the weights around, screwing up the weight balance. Also, the trailer in this test is a three-axle dually trailer. Just curious.
I'd expect there'd be standards that have to be adhered to with what type of trailer can be used and how exactly it can be set up. But whatever is used, it should be set up properly, not improperly weighted. Because the purpose of the test here is to evaluate how the truck performs. Therefore, you want the limiting factor in the tests to be the truck. If you improperly weight the trailer, then the performance of the truck will be limited by the trailer, which is not what they're evaluating.
The trailer used in here will be far more stable than a bumper pull hitch (the type used in those videos) so yes, essentially. But these can still sway, and these ratings include bumper pull
My 2017 tacoma was hurting at that 11 mile stretch 5k rpms towing 3k pounds 75mph CRUISE control and like 1k lbs of load in the truck (long bed) sr5trim never gave up but she sounded like it hurt
Keeping in the thinking of towing, I would like to see a video explaining the forces applied to a tow vehicle with a large travel trailer and the limit in length between a half ton and 3/4-1 ton truck following Newtonian physics.
I really think that the sway test is to reduce the risk of an accident caused by oscillation due to repeated driver overcompensation. We see plenty of those on youtube.
Awesome video. Do you think that the results are indicative of exceptional performance on the part of the vehicle, or is it more that the tests are relatively easy to pass given advances in technology vs when the tests were created?
Ian Glenn The test standards for grading doesn’t need to change. What the test is for is to say “Truck A can pull X pounds safely” then the next year “Truck A has improved, now can pull 2X pounds.”
Matthew Jackson Rotational weight is also different than just actual weight. For example you will see more power if you remove 10 pounds from the drivetrain, than if you remove 10 pounds from the cab.
@@EngineeringExplained I don't follow how the understanding that dually trucks will pull more weight should allow them to meet lower standards than "regular" trucks. The safety/comfort implications of not being to sufficiently to accelerate to speed on the interstate, hold on a hill, not overheat under sever conditions are the same regardless of the number of tires on the driven axle. Said another way, a dually truck is allowed to perform worse in almost every way than a 4-tire truck with the same towing capacity. That is not what consumers expect. I could see an argument from a rear cornering stiffness or redundancy in case of rear puncture.
Can you explain how weight factors into the handling test? The other tests were easy to see why adding weight would make the truck fail. Why would a heavier trailer understeer less than a lighter one, etc.?
A heavier trailer would be more likely to want to get ahead of the truck, in other words pull the hitch point outwards in a turn, causing oversteer and for the trailer to whip around. If the trailer is super light, the truck will have no problem controlling where it goes.
Josh Benney Amazing to think that my dad’s F-650 dump truck has the same engine but only 210 hp and no idea on torque but shitty (I bet less the 600). Going up hills at anywhere for 25-45 mph while getting passed by fully loaded semis is really embarrassing !
@@Ckcdillpickle it's right size truck for that kind of torque. If you look h.p in a diesel. You're looking at it wrong. H.p is meaningless, but torque matters lot!! 3500 chassis is so rigid way stronger than 1500 which will snap in half if put into it. That's why 5.0 v8 diesel is better for 1500 frame. I'm glad engineers designed it well for frame size and engine size!
Was the the vehicle in this video at capacity? Yes, but it’s rather confusing how we get there. The combined truck + trailer weight in this video is 39,840 lbs (with no people). The combined weight rating is 43,000 lbs - which you’d reasonably assume we’re down 3,000 lbs. However, the vehicle’s Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (just the weight on the truck) is 14,000 lbs, and we’re at 13,700 pounds (without driver, but with the tongue weight of the trailer) in this vehicle, so we’re hitting max GVW before hitting max GCW. Why? Because this is a Limited truck, not the base truck, which will have a lower curb weight with few features, smaller cab, 2WD, etc. So while the base truck would have a GCWR of 43,000 lbs, you would never achieve that with the Limited version due to the base weight of the vehicle. Meaning? Your truck has a maximum amount it can weigh, your trailer has a maximum amount it can weigh, and your truck + trailer has a maximum amount it can weigh. In this video, the limiting factor was the truck’s 14,000 lb GVW, which allowed for a trailer weight of 30,645.
14,000 lb grocery-getter. . . that occasionally tows. My 6000 lb Navigator feels like an RV. . . . 14k? At least you win in almost every non CDL collision.
This makes no sense to me because of.... lbs?
@@snap-off5383 Just to make sure I'm not communicating this poorly, the truck itself weighs about 9,000 lbs. The additional 5,000 pounds to make 14k are from the tongue weight of the trailer.
@@EngineeringExplained I understood that from your beginning explanation and then ran my pie hole anyway without thinking. Still 9000 lbs a new one of those should come with its own Prius to encourage you not to let your trophy wife use it to commute
If someone did not already know these facts and/or can not understand the concepts being set out in this video and the comment above. That person has no business operating vehicles of this size and capacity.
Sometimes I’m not sure why I watch an EE video. I just do.
We like to think we know what he's talking about when he's describing technical things.
Thatguyujustmet uh cool story dude
@@OveranalyzingEverything The technical information in these videos are actually pretty limited.
Awesome video Jason. I have always wondered if there was a standard. Do you know what year each brand started using this standard?
Good question Chris! I asked when I was there and they said around 2014, so anything later than that. But likely it's something you should be able to find depending on the manufacturer. Ford, Chevy, Toyota, & Ram, should all be using this for their ratings today.
ChrisFix can you make a video on what to do before you buy a 94 celica
I suddenly want a H1 Hummer.
@@9HighFlyer9 Actually J2807 was first issued in 2008. It has been revised since then. Most manufacturers staggered their rollout (waiting for a new vehicle design): Toyota started for 2011 MY, The Big Three agreed to start in 2013 with Ford stating it would apply as new redesigns happened. F-150 used J2807 in 2015; GM and Chrysler waited until after the F-150 launched. Complying with J2807 meant that the reported tow ratings on all tested vehicles dropped and all manufacturers were afraid to be the first to "look bad" to customers not familiar with the stringent J2807 test.
Note that some of the revisions to J2807 were about how to classify and test heavy-duty pickups. Also note that all this test requires is that you state a target and pass it (a certified minimum performance). Your vehicle might actually be capable of better but you could be trading off a safety factor for manufacturing variability, want to report higher performance (as the Ram showed), or looking to improve other attributes like ride comfort.
Also note this testing applies to SUVs, crossovers, minivans...anything with a listed tow rating. In general passing the test is hardest for the pickups because their rated towing is so much higher than the weight of the vehicle. That's just the physics of a heavy object being pulled by a lighter object --> tail wants to wag the dog.
@@EngineeringExplained a very subjective so called standard be better to call it a guide the conditions that the vehicle is tested in can vary
Yeah, towing capacity is great. What would be even better is if people realized they shouldn't be driving 10-15 mph over the speed limit while towing a trailer.
And shouldn't be tailgating ever. All those pathetic excuses tailgaters use on the internet are lame even for passenger cars (they always say "STAY IN THE RIGHT LANE THEN" as if they only tailgate people driving slow in the passing lane in the highway, which isn't true at all) are even lamer for people towing trailers and for semis. Drive safely.
@@mjc0961 they think being two feet away from your bumper will get them there faster. That way when you move to right lane, they can speed up to 90 to hurry up and get behind the next person they're goina tail gate. On 3-4 lane rush hour city highways it's even stupider. Drives me crazy
@@matthewmcclain1316 Niether of you are wrong. The point still stands that the left lanes are for passing. If people are passing you on the left *and* the right you should probably get over.
One of the few things I like about driving in California is the 55mph speed limit for any vehicle towing.
@@maybach6536 it's ridiculous for semi trucks though. A semi truck is very stable at speed. Otherwise Wyoming and Nevada would be chock full of semis wrecked by unstable trailers.
Thanks for covering this topic! I always wondered what was behind these numbers or if it was just marketing blowing as much smoke up our backsides as the lawyers would allow.
a little from column A, a little from column B
@@Matticus289 not really. Its a spec. They pass or they dont. The acceleration spec is pretty broad. So why doesnt ford or gm tow 10k more than the ram since they have 50hp more? Because they cant stop more weight! Because they cant keep the truck cool going up the Davis dam. Making the spec more realistic than just marking bs.
@@Matticus289 double like for Archer reference
@@JoeHynes284 Ha! I was actually quoting Homer Simpson. But, it appears @Andy Hass hasn't heard of either. Or sarcasm, for that matter
@@Matticus289 Abe Simpson... when the feds bust in the front door looking for Homer's mother.... are you stalling or just senile.
As a car enthusiast I am not into trucks, but as an engineer I am totally into trucks.
I was a car enthusiast, until my dad gifted me his old lifted Dodge ram 2500. Now I'm a lifted truck guy.
Lifted trucks are godlike.
As a vehicle enthusiast I am into all kind of vehicles. Cars, trucks, trains, ships... As a marine engineer I am into large diesel engines. Basically I am into everything that runs on fossil fuel.
T-Bag I am into all of those as well as motorcycles and airplanes and I think electric vehicles are cool also.
The real cause of overloaded induced accidents is the towed vehicle being overloaded, improperly loaded, or towed too fast.
How many 5th wheels limit their highway speed to 65mph? None. Yet, ALL trailer tires are ST rated which has a maximum speed of 65mph.
Ever see a 5th wheel owner take his rig to a scale to verify axle weight and weight distribution? Very few do. Even fewer towed behind travel trailers check their weights. The real problem is not the tow vehicle, rather it is the towed vehicle and driver. With modern ABS, the trucks are safer than ever. Lack of proper trailer brake set up and understanding by the driver in proper use is the weak link in the chain. Ask the average person what the settings on their brake control do to the brakes and they won't even come close to the correct answers.
No, not all trailer tires are ST rated and limited to 65mph. My horse trailer uses the exact same tires as my truck, and they're not ST rated.
They should account for this and specify that tests must be performed with an overloaded single axle dog-tracking home-made trailer with asymmetric braking that has been loaded as improperly as physically possible. (Everything in the back OR everything in the front)
im a rv transporter and usually run at 70mph. at 90 degrees 68mph max. 100 degrees 65 mph max. if its cold outside and im in a hurry i run 72. never any more. ive gone 11 hours straight at 72. with my 30 min break of course 😉 and they put the cheapest tires on these trailers. never had a blow out from going too fast....just sayin
@Tony Seely bit of a sweeping generalisation there!
I can't even do 60mphs on a loaded 5th wheel
Show this to the wife and at the end you say "... and that's why we need a $70,000 truck, because whiteboard!" 😁
He is the oldest looking teenager I have ever seen.
My thoughts exactly. Got that just for men with a touch of gray going
No, he told us his birthday. 1952 I think, so he's about 67. So, he's actually holding up pretty good (he doesn't look a day over 60) :)
I thought he was born in 1963? Nevertheless, at mid 50s, he still looks young.
Born in 1989
@@edwincorrales9373 He said 1952, but there's a 99.999892% chance he was kidding.
Thank you for being more precise with conversations than the road signs in Canada. It bugs me every time I see a road sign saying 100kmph = 60 mph
Lets not get started of how inaccurate speedometers can be
@@xenonram your dealership can, on most OBDII compliant vehicles, recalibrate the speedometer for other than original tire size. I have a tool capable of doing so on my trucks.
@Abstractism No, in the US you CAN get a ticket for being even 1mph off the speed limit, but usually you won't. I have driven past cops going 10mph over and not gotten pulled over, but generally 5mph over is a safer bet. But I do have a friend who got a ticket for being 1mph over. The real kicker is she was leaving a town and the sign for an increased speed limit was right in front of her, but technically she hadn't passed it yet.
The conversion won't help in court either - if you are driving over the limit (say at 40mph in a 60kmh zone), the judge will say you are speeding because 60kmh is actually 37.3mph - and you testified you were doing 40, so speeding. Only 50 and 100kmh err on the 'larger mph' side; all other common speed limits are actually below the rounded up mph - so they get you. Just another tax.
@@danieljensen2626 I find that very hard to believe to be honest.
I was actually pretty impressed by the parking break test
The brake didn't take a break.
Lmao yeah yeah excuses 1-32 were already used today, sooooo my cat stepped on my keyboard there, happy?
@@cls63amgwagon34 My cat is eating :-)
Most idiots call this "e brake".
@@mann8333 semi's hold double ( sometimes triple that) with our parking brakes
I'm lost with so many freedom units.
It kind of makes me hate them less with that name, as opposed to Imperial Units.
christianbro2 gotta get out of your third world country man
Imagine not being able to convert them in your head.
"Arithmetic". Check it out some.
I can understand the freedom units perfectly. You must be French.
@@codycast But only 2 countries use imperial, both 3rd world shitholes? If he got out, he would use metric.
I've really wondered about this for a long time. It always seemed like they playing some kind of game with the numbers. Thanks for the video!
The "games" ended with the manufacturers adopting the SAE standard rating method. In 2013 or there about.
My 22 year old Silverado broke out in a cold sweat watching this video.
6:20 I see that Blink playlist you're hiding over in the corner
Haha yes!
Haha, I wasn't even in the vehicle...
It's better than Katy Perry at 11:38
I just went to a Blink 182 concert Sept. 6th, good stuff Maynard!
Love this nerd's videos ;) Even learning minor things like how they test understeer vs oversteer is awesome.
Thank you Jason for a solid behind the scenes look at tow rating. Having been involved in some of this testing, I know the industry takes this procedure seriously. It's also an example of an industry regulating itself instead of yet more government regulations. The U.S. government accepts the data from this SAE procedure instead of creating yet another FMVSS test procedure.
Hey Jason your videos are really great. Putting all the math and science behind what is really going on and how we get there. They are so fun to watch. I would love to see more videos of you doing your thing with trucks.
I'll need this later when we start looking at tow rigs for the racecar.
How heavy is your racecar and all your tools? Lol
tankerboysabot considering their name, I’d expect a fairly substantial trailer setup. Our 20’ enclosed with car and all is about 9000lbs. We have a friend with a 35’ goose neck which is loaded up with much more and I bet is nearer to 15-16k. For a dual car hauler, I can anticipate even more.
We eventually went with a Kenworth T600 based toter.. our trailer weight was pretty much irrelevant from then on.
@@5AXISDLOCKHART Optimal, but not a cheap rig. Depends how much use will be there. Continous usage hardly sitting, its a no brainer. Half the year sitting, half not a 1 ton will be plenty.
@@brandoncaldwell95 We started with a 1 ton. After the first trip in the big rig we realized we should have gotten it way sooner. When on our way to or from the track : Need to take a whiz, get up and walk to the bathroom. Want some hot food, walk back and throw something in the microwave. And so on. Probably the nicest thing was having our own shower at the track. Search racingjunk. You can find many older toters for less than a new pickup.
This is what I subscribe for. Things I didn't know
This was AMAZING!!! Thanks for sharing the concise explanation.
They took a very generous picture of you in CAR And DRIVER. Congrats Jason!
I once pulled a 65 cadillac behind my bagged crew cab half-ton on a 18ft bumper-pull from Arkansas to Texas and back. No trailer brakes, and the load was a good bit heavier than the truck itself... I can assure you that this was the best, most informative video, that I have ever seen. haha.
Jason, first off I’ve been with the channel since sub 100,000 subscribers and I greatly appreciate the work you put into each video and the wealth of knowledge I have gained from your work. Never the less I was sitting here finally getting to read my October issue of car and driver and I flip the page and there you are, a full article in what I consider the best car mag out today. I legit said out loud hell yeah that’s awesome even tho I’m at the house by myself. Simply put You should be very proud of what you’ve accomplished and again I appreciate all the hard work that you put into each video for us subscribers!!!
The ever increasing HP/tow weight ratings on Class C trucks is exactly why the laws changed here in CA recently, with all types of trailers over 10K lbs requiring a Class A.
Most people are not properly trained or qualified to tow heavy loads, regardless of if their truck can, and that's a problem. A regular 3/4 or 1 ton pickup hauling more than 10K lbs of trailer and load requires the same, if not better attention and driver inputs than a semi hauling 40K lbs. Why?......is all about duty cycle. Big trucks are heavier and overbuilt to handle far more weight than most of them are usually hauling (80K lbs gross combined weight is the standard max, which works out to about 50K lbs of cargo in most scenarios). More weight than that means you need more axles/tires or permits, or both. Tires, roads and structures like bridges are the limiting factors, not the truck's abilities.
My Peterbuilt doesn't even notice a load on its trailer that is under 30K lbs, which means at 60% of its normal duty rating... the truck isn't even trying. That's talking accel, braking, stability and steering feel.
Now go and put 60% of the rating of one of these pickups on a trailer (about 14K lbs not including trailer tare) and tell me the truck drives and behaves the same as when its empty!
Exactly I think the weight ratings are well and truly beyond the capability of a vehicle to handle safely at it's limits
Cali only did it because they're communists and they want to regulate everything so nobody can afford their own business
@@robertryan7204 Unfortunately, escalation is the most common tactic used when building competing vehicle. Much like HP ratings, if the towing/hauling capacities of your offering are less than the competitors (or last year's model) then the manufacturers fear nobody will buy their product, or they will at least miss out on bragging rights. As this tactic goes on for many years, you eventually start to blur the lines between classes of vehicle that were once clearly defined by their differences in capability. The same phenomenon of one-upsmanship has occurred with sport bikes over the last 20 years, with top level street bikes being barely distinguishable from full-bred race bikes, and only the most capable riders being able to fully utilize their potential.
@@84gssteve Totally agree, but when it gets to the point that what the perceived capabilities are much more than what a novice driver can cope with, then it is becoming dangerous
I'm honestly surprised that many states haven't started requiring higher level licenses for RVs. I've had RV/trailer combos pass me and be nearly my length, and I pull a 53'.
This is a good use of physics and engineering in an enjoyable format. Good video.
An in-depth look at trailer sway would make for a really interesting (and informative) future video. Not just front-rear balance but also distance from axles (polar moment of inertia), hitch type/design, and speed. Plus an overview of the general concept of sway damping ratio.
Great video Jason! You did a great job explaining the details of truck towing standards and testing. Really interesting!
Great video Jason!! Very good job explaining all the details and showcasing the awesome Ram 3500!
Congrats on the full page article in this months Car & Driver!
Awesome clear and concise explanation of the two rating process. Thanks for posting this.
Enjoyed both videos! Great info and good to see that there is some objective consistency in tow ratings. Cheers!
Great stuff. I have been directly involved with evaluating both braking systems and cooling systems for another vehicle manufacturer. Testing was done on Baker Grade in Baker, CA and at Death Valley, all at max trailer weight and very high ambient temperatures. Pretty crazy seeing brakes catch on fire.
The grade launch is really going to test the u-joints and drive shaft. I've seen so many trucks snap a u-joint launching on the steep grade next to my work.
I used to work at a Dodge dealership years ago, and one day we had a 1 ton dually pickup towed in for repair.
It had turned it's driveshaft into a pretzel. It was owned by the provincial transit company (GO Transit), and they had tried to pull one of the passenger coach with it in the marshalling yard. (think of a double-decker Amtrak passenger car). The coaches weigh about 134,000 lb. The motor had the torque, but the driveshaft thankfully was the weak link, otherwise I think they would have cooked the tranny.
I was thinking clutch and/or tranny fluid...
This is so ultra cool and I appreciate your sharing it.
One thing these ratings never accommodate is frontal area. This sled trailer is easier to tow than a fifth wheel or travel trailer that adds a lot of aerodynamic drag.
But, still, this is very, very cool and well explained as always.
Fantastic video! Very good information!
Dude you are too much - I love the nerdy science and engineering. Many thanks for sharing your genius!
I always wondered if ratings were objective… excellent explanation!
2:41 Thank you for correctly saying "weight/power"! So many people make the mistake and say "power/weight".
1 hp per 5 lbs. Power to weight. Is that not also correct?
"Power to weight" doesn't necessarily mean power/weight. If you specify the units, the order doesn't matter.
I have a 17ram 3500 drw and I could not be happier with its performance
Great video, it shows how much effort (and thus cost) is required to have a tow rating, which explains why some seemingly tow-capable cars like the Chevy Bolt aren't rated or 'recommended' for towing.
A few years ago, I read J2807. I then asked SAE why there is a difference between SRW and DRW vehicles. They told me that dually were commercial and singles were not. I don't believe there should be any difference --- if someone pulls out in from of me and accelerates, I really don't care if they are dually's or not!!
Yes but a commercial driver is more likely to take into account the fact that acceleration is very poor and not pull out in front of you
@@michaelborisenko9432 This was an assumption on their party. In reality, there are many non-commercial users of duallys pulling heavy loads and I can see no useful need for differentiating between SRW and DRW pickups.
@bigtruckandrv channel would love this video seeing how you are explaining about truck towing capacity.
Another good video, congratulations on getting in car and driver Jason your rocking it!
Smart kid. Thanks for the informative video. I’m not sure if this old dog can learn how to figure out this new trick, but I can learn where to get really cool info. Thanks Engineering Explained.
Jason you are getting gray! I did not realize you have been around so long since it cannot be because of the stress of your job. More seriously, as a civil engineer degreed years and years ago I have always loved the ability to to do some quick math to either justify what one is seeing in the real world or to help explain what is happening. You do a great job, and as you are now obviously maturing perhaps you can be a little less frenetic. All the best,
By title I thought you were going to exceed the weight rating to find out what the truck can "actually" tow before failure or near anyway
The idea was to demonstrate the opposite, that all these companies saying "watch us tow 1,000,000 pounds" but really they wouldn't meet their own requirements for towing that capacity.
@@EngineeringExplained I don't really pay attention to commercials, didn't know they said that lol I get what you meant now
Now that sounds like a fun test!
I have often wondered what the point of failure would be for certain trucks with respect to their tow ratings. In other words if you pick a Colorado with a 7,000 lb tow rating, which of these tests would it fail first if you keep adding weight. And which ever test it fails, would that be the same test most trucks would fail first or are the limits quite varied? My assumption has always been that the Davis Dam test is usually the limiting factor for most trucks.
Now if only we could the TFL guys to understand that math. Good video Jason and enjoyed seeing the Ram put out good numbers!
Answer;
As much as you want just don’t let the D.O.T catch you
Or in the case of the Colorado, don’t have your truck split into 2 and try to warranty it
Thanks, just saved me 10 mins of my life.
Luke Walker 😂
True that. Ive seen upwards of 60,000lbs on a 1 ton pulling and controlling it perfectly fine. Mind you, it was a gooseneck with 4 axles and a dozer on its back.
Just take all the back roads 😉
So often I see half-ton trucks towing loads that certainly exceed the rated towing capacity of the truck, even before accounting for the loaded weight of the truck. Just because the truck will pull the load doesn't mean you have any margin at all when conditions are less than optimal ... such as emergency braking.
Absolutely right. I have a Ford F150 rated to tow something like 12,000 lbs. I regularly tow a camper with a max weight of 7500 lbs. I would not tow anything much heavier. Plenty of power to move it, but you have to account for stopping, cross winds, cornering, lane changes, etc. Better safe than sorry.
Yep, funny when you see people talk about how their 3500 can tow 30k lbs and it makes 1000lb ft. Even though they don't have a CDL to tow that much and it's not safe at all to tow that much. My truck makes less than 700lb ft and Id rather tow 30k lbs on it than any pick up truck
This is the only guy that i know that can keep you confused and interested at the same time. Im actally interested by this guy but i can imagine other ppl who are both confused and interested
This is awesome..I actually been out of your videos cause I picked up a diesel and been learning about it..so this some good knowledge!
This is funny because I was just thinking about this exact question last night. Very interesting video.
Great video, keep up the good work!
Finally, a video for us car people who are actually truck people!
I live nearby the Davis Dam run mentioned towards the end of he video. Can't tell you how many times I've seen vehicles from the nearby FCA proving grounds, all dressed up in prototype camouflage, making that run up the hill
How do they control for different ways of loading the trailer? It seems that could make a difference in the handling portion of the test. And following on from that, what design factors can engineers control to affect something like trailer sway?
Thanks for all the great content!
If you load a trailer improperly it's on you
Great to see how manufacturers must test their vehicles in a standardized way. But, braking from only 20 mph! What kind of safety test is that? I want to know I can stop from 65 mph while going downhill. Thanks for the great videos.
Just read your interview in Car and Driver, way to go man
I'm curious as to how they get tongue weight ratings as well. In the Chevy Colorado groups, there's been some misnomers as to why the frames are bending when folks are bombing down dirt roads with massive trailers, and blaming GM for under-engineering their platforms to save cost. These folks arent understanding crumple zones, and the forces at hand on the chassis/frame, hitch and other components.
More Truck Videos please. Thank you for the great video. 👍
I really like your videos, but I always have to convert it into metric units. That's the only problem :D
Thank you for making this video friendly to the mathematically challenged, sometimes I just see hieroglyphics.
Often your explanations are very detailed in depth and sorry but sometimes engineering is very boring, although I do learn things. Nice explanation, I already knew about this and you did a very good non-boring explanation, YEAH. Nothing personal engineering can be mind numbing boring.. Thank you for the video.
One time I pulled 16,000 pounds with a GMC Sierra 1500. It was extremely sketchy and even just switching to a gas 2500hd with a 6.0 and pretty much the same engine power and pulled same load and it was 2-3 times easier to pull. It’s amazing the difference frame brakes gearing and suspension have
I love these videos and I'd love it if you could include metric units in brackets in your maths so I can keep up! Keep making videos :)
Great video, as the owner of a truck that tows many thousands of pounds sometimes, this is very important to know. I did have a question as of to where the up hill test is performed in Arizona? (I live in the Devil's Den)
It sounds like something to do with Hoover Dam. That much steady climb without relent is only available in a few areas, and most of those are in SoCal. Flagstaff has a brutal climb, but the temps aren't that high at the top, though at the bottom in Phoenix they are... but that climb isn't steady, it's several whoops.
Even though the Ram doesn't have the highest, torque, horsepower, or towing ratings, it made a very impressive show in these tests. This showing is what you'd expect from all of the HD trucks from the big three. The bottom line is; how much does this performance cost, who delivers the most bang for the buck?
They did have the highest tq rating till the 2020 ford superduty numbers were released. Ram 1000ft lb, GM 910 ft lbs, 2020 ford 1050 ft lbs (935ft lb 2019 model)
Thank you I've wanted to know how to test this scientifically for years!
Very Interesting. Truck have to be overpowered for their gross weight to be able to pull that much, not because they are "sport" vehicle. I have driven some Semi truck and yes, the over-steering make sens. crazy, I never realized that it was intentional, in truck design.
I wonder how those tow rating are determined for cars. Because some cars , that are exactly the same In car US Canada and Europe, have 2X the tow rating in Europe?
Actually it makes sense. As I drive 2019 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7 liter straight six Cummins. But you stated that Ram in your video is showing 2WD? Mine is 4WD and I can safely pull 31,260 lbs total with two full size trucks loaded on my goose neck big Tex trailer. My truck did the job without any complaints. It's pretty stout engine with over thousand pounds of torque. I love my truck!!
With that much weight, you might as well get a dedicated tow rig
I get lots of knowledge from ur vids. Keep up ur good work
Always super informative
I find it interesting that this test is done without having the towing vehicle loaded to it's maximum weight.
If the vehicle is not a flat bed truck but has plenty of storage volume itself, that can make quite a difference.
Thanks very much for making such interesting videos !!
Cool video. Great to watch. Thanks for this content.
can you have a video explaining what are the basis of standards set for the testing, eg. why 12 seconds or 14 seconds acceleration, or why 45ft braking distance, why 100F temperature etc...
This rating system is great, pity here in Australia they have nothing so demanding, every day there are accidents caused by under rated tow vehicles.
Another thing, i know it would be extra work but i would like to see the metric system employed in your uploads. Ie: kph , kg, etc.
I thought that was Tommy standing there! great work on this explanation!
3:09-3:11 was Tommy
Very well done, clear explanation.
U need a CDL A to pull if tow vehicle is over 10k lbs and trailer is over 6k as per Federal DOT.
You will get big fine impound ...I did.
Also tiny brakes, clutches and transmission in these will not last towing maximum load. Drum Electric brakes crappy on mountains and never hold equally in reverse on brake s will slip in reverse down hill but discs best and hold. Most new class 5 and 7 trucks have ABS air brakes also which are much safer.I have 40 years exp moving cranes heavy equipment and boats.
Excellent work Thanks
I'd love to see a comparison between a fully deleted diesel vs a choked down epa version.
Tom K lmao probably like 14 whp
Yes, and I want to see that for semi trucks as well. My 2019 cascadia is practically neutered, but I've seen some pushing 150hp more than mine by just deleting and retuning.
How well can an electric vehicle tow- dependent on transmission or construction of chassis?
Wouldn't the 'sway test' be more dependent on the trailer type and load? I've seen those videos of toy cars on treadmills where they move the weights around, screwing up the weight balance. Also, the trailer in this test is a three-axle dually trailer.
Just curious.
I'd expect there'd be standards that have to be adhered to with what type of trailer can be used and how exactly it can be set up. But whatever is used, it should be set up properly, not improperly weighted. Because the purpose of the test here is to evaluate how the truck performs. Therefore, you want the limiting factor in the tests to be the truck. If you improperly weight the trailer, then the performance of the truck will be limited by the trailer, which is not what they're evaluating.
The trailer used in here will be far more stable than a bumper pull hitch (the type used in those videos) so yes, essentially. But these can still sway, and these ratings include bumper pull
I gotta say, that is amazing capacity and astounding performance for a pickup. Matches the astounding price of a loaded diesel these days.
My 2017 tacoma was hurting at that 11 mile stretch 5k rpms towing 3k pounds 75mph CRUISE control and like 1k lbs of load in the truck (long bed) sr5trim never gave up but she sounded like it hurt
Keeping in the thinking of towing, I would like to see a video explaining the forces applied to a tow vehicle with a large travel trailer and the limit in length between a half ton and 3/4-1 ton truck following Newtonian physics.
You just sealed the deal for me, I'll buy a new Ram 3500 for my next truck!!
Thanks. Now we know how they calculate those towing ratings.
You should be the only “youtuber “to be paid by youtube because of your content .
Interesting video but metric conversions (at least for key figures) for those of us not in US would be great :)
Move to The States. Problem resolved! SAE land welcomes you!
@@TheSingleTrucker Hehe - bit drastic just to understand a youtube video but maybe... ;)
@@mattsword41 Just multiply lbs by 0.454 and mph by 1.609 :-) How hard can it be? I live in a metric country.
Honestly, who is going to buy this vehicle in Metric Land?
@@bcubed72 a saw one example in my country. But we have higher allowable axle weights so we get the same payload with smaller pickups.
Cool video! Imagine if you ran all these tests in a good truck!
I really think that the sway test is to reduce the risk of an accident caused by oscillation due to repeated driver overcompensation. We see plenty of those on youtube.
Awesome video. Do you think that the results are indicative of exceptional performance on the part of the vehicle, or is it more that the tests are relatively easy to pass given advances in technology vs when the tests were created?
Ian Glenn The test standards for grading doesn’t need to change. What the test is for is to say “Truck A can pull X pounds safely” then the next year “Truck A has improved, now can pull 2X pounds.”
Why do dual rear wheels make the tests more lenient?
Extra weight and associated drivetrain losses
@@KaitouKaiju But you have more grip. and the extra weight is minimal when you are towing 40,000 points.
Because dual rear wheels will be pulling much higher loads (thus will accelerate more slowly).
Matthew Jackson Rotational weight is also different than just actual weight.
For example you will see more power if you remove 10 pounds from the drivetrain, than if you remove 10 pounds from the cab.
@@EngineeringExplained I don't follow how the understanding that dually trucks will pull more weight should allow them to meet lower standards than "regular" trucks. The safety/comfort implications of not being to sufficiently to accelerate to speed on the interstate, hold on a hill, not overheat under sever conditions are the same regardless of the number of tires on the driven axle.
Said another way, a dually truck is allowed to perform worse in almost every way than a 4-tire truck with the same towing capacity. That is not what consumers expect.
I could see an argument from a rear cornering stiffness or redundancy in case of rear puncture.
Can you explain how weight factors into the handling test? The other tests were easy to see why adding weight would make the truck fail. Why would a heavier trailer understeer less than a lighter one, etc.?
A heavier trailer would be more likely to want to get ahead of the truck, in other words pull the hitch point outwards in a turn, causing oversteer and for the trailer to whip around. If the trailer is super light, the truck will have no problem controlling where it goes.
Great video, Sir.
Thank you!
I want that RAM truck, that engine just sounds so good, 6.7L in line 6 AND diesel?! yes please
Don't forget 1,080 lbs of torque @ 1,850 rpm. Try that for a size. I own one. I love it
Josh Benney Amazing to think that my dad’s F-650 dump truck has the same engine but only 210 hp and no idea on torque but shitty (I bet less the 600). Going up hills at anywhere for 25-45 mph while getting passed by fully loaded semis is really embarrassing !
@@AP9311 that's way too much torque for a tiny truck
@@SquishyZoran semis are built to tow. Funny when people think their 3500 towing 35k lbs is even close to safe or legal
@@Ckcdillpickle it's right size truck for that kind of torque. If you look h.p in a diesel. You're looking at it wrong. H.p is meaningless, but torque matters lot!! 3500 chassis is so rigid way stronger than 1500 which will snap in half if put into it. That's why 5.0 v8 diesel is better for 1500 frame.
I'm glad engineers designed it well for frame size and engine size!
This guy straight up is a genius