I'm certainly "one of those guys" and try to add new cards to my old decks. My soldier deck has been suffering because they have made some cool White Green Soldiers and to this point, my soldiers decks was White Red. Often when I add the new coolness the deck can suffer in playability. Great list!
EDH Rec is a great resource but it tracks digital decks, I have built many decks online and many more IRL with very little overlap - I've found that in the wild these decks show up less often (possible people still own them, but they don't come out very often)
My favorite thing with Orolo is to make a token copy, let the commander die and go back, now I get 2 triggers of life gain, and access to his drain ability.
Cactus hug is a good name for that kind of thing. I’ve also referred to it as “bear hug”, in reference to the wrestling move since it’s a hug meant to cause pain. I recently made a deck full of undercosted big beaters with group hug style “downsides” to them and I’ve been calling it my Tsundere deck since the goal is to be both nice and mean to my opponents at the same time.
Oloro was awesome in that his life gain was open ended enough to run a bunch of different strategies. I ran my version back in the day as a enchantress stax deck. Used the Theros enchantment creatures to have no non enchantment creatures other than Oloro in the Deck.
Agree, Oloro is the only life gain in the deck I built. Just filled the deck with punisher cards like Ankh of Mishra, Liesa, Pestilence etc and hope that I'm alive at the end of it all 😂
Oloro was my second and most favourite commander of all time! I started off trying to make him a crappy life gain deck. But since I was playing standard during the Return to Ravnica + Theros era, and U/W Control was one of the main decks. I learned a lot from there, and turned my Oloro deck into what I now call 'boardwipe tribal'. 10ish good board wipes + esper control + 6 or 7 of my favourite giant death star monster cards that can win games on their own. And boom, I built the deck that won me our local summer EDH league! The +2life was used to give me that little bit of breathing room to 'safely' get into the mid to late game and dominate! I love Oloro so much! LIke you said, he enables so many different strategies!! He really helped me make my friend mono white Saint Celestine life gain deck a total powerhouse too!!!
Thanks Demo, for all your nice input on cards, deck strategies and nice-to-know stuff around the game we like and love! All the best to you and your loved once and I hope your channel will grow further in 2024! Stay healthy! 😊
I builded a Nekusar Deck which try to "throw" away the crown to punish creedy carddraw with one more instance. But I wish there will be more options in Grixis which supports this kind of theme...
In generell i think, outside of maybe control players, everyone likes having monarch around. Personally i try to add 1 or 2 cards with it in any deck when possible and it just makes games run more interestingly.
Demo! Love the content. And in the most respectful, non-aggressive way possible, I just wanted to either remind or point out that WotC & the mtg community is moving away from using "tribal" and towards "kindred" or "typal" out of respect for certain indigenous peoples out there. Again, love the content, keep doing an outstanding job. Look forward to seeing what you have in store for us in 2024. Happy new year!
Thanks for the insight in all your videos demo. With regards to keyword soup on Atraxa, it's meant to represent the embodiment of the mana infused into her when she was created. Flying=blue, vigilance=white, deathtouch=green, lifelink=black. Its also why she isn't rainbow, as urabrask was so non-involved in phyrexian affairs that he wasn't involved in her creation.
Happy New Year! Your channel remains my favourite MTG channel due to your relaxed nature and your often unique insight into older cards and how they synergies with new commanders. Keep being yourself!
It should be considered that these older commanders are still so popular because with so many sets and new cards being released so often it doesn’t really give anything time to really shine. It makes it kinda overwhelming choosing what you want to make so what do you do, you go online and see what’s popular OR if your knowledge is outdated then you’ll think “oh ya back when I played this card was good”.
Krenko is probably the commander i lost to the most and STILL i never complain about seeing him. Next in line is probably the selesnya enchantress 2 drop whose name i never can remember.
I do still have my Oloro deck! And it's french language too because I thought it'd be ironic to have a French Oloro Commander deck since at the time it was banned in "French Commander" the 1v1 version of the game. The entire deck was french at one time but as new cards came and went it became too difficult to get certain cards in the language I wanted so only most of it is still french. Mine is definitely a lifegain/good stuff build. I use the life I gain as a resource. Ice Age painlands and Mana Crypt doesn't sting as much when you're gaining 2 life each turn plus most of the creatures have Lifelink as well. I also have a Yavimaya Cradle of Growth in there and a Lifetap so I can gain a life for each land my opponents tap. :D
I started playing edh around 2008. Zur was a powerhouse then, and still is. However many powerful deck I used to see from that 08-11 before the precon decks have fallen away into the shadows.
I think a lot of the older commanders are still so popular because of PTSD. Walk up to any table in the country and drop down a Sliver or Markov deck. Someone at the table will immediately declare war against you. Doesn't matter how you built it, if you run an OG commander or tribe you are getting bodied purely as a trauma response.
I don’t think eminence itself is busted. I think the first round of eminence cards we got were busted, especially Edgar Markov. Having played against Inalla, Edgar, Arabho, and Sidar, I can tell you that Sidar was, BY FAR, the most fair eminence commander to play against. It’s second ability actually incentivized you to actually cast and attack with him, instead of just keeping him in the command zone
@@Mamadeira_Having the opponent start the game with an emblem is rought. Still, i dont think any of the eminence commanders are ban worthy strong. Just because while really good for the strategies they support, those strategies themselfs are pretty fragile.
@@Mamadeira_ They aren't "essentially doing nothing" to paraphrase you. They have to pick that specific commander. That is a BIG cost!!! I don't think you understand how each of the different eminence commanders have their own trade offs!!! Oloro never coming out and not having an impact on the board 98% of the time isn't actually always a good thing. I tried getting him out, but he's just so slow, and doesn't do enough with his pay compared to what some of the other great creatures in my deck can do. He's too expensive to be a cheap beater to protect my face. The Ur-Dragon is really good in that he enables a bad tribe to be great*. Edgar Markarov is strong. But not too strong. His trade off is that he forces you into a very board heavy, aggro game plan. You're not going to get much pay off if you play a non Vampire Aggro deck with Edgar. The Sidar Knights deck is similar to Edgar. Tribal aggro. Board heavy. Both can easily be contained by spot removal + board wipes. I haven't played with or against the others yet so I can't say with them. They are definitely strong. But not too strong in my opinion. Cheers!
Hey that tshirt its really cool Demo, i really like it😮. Krenko still is very very popular. Its very fun to play. Have a happy New Year Demo. Thanks for upload so many great content on this year. Thanks for all your tops and your edh rules videos and the deck doctors. Thanks for all bro.😊
I have a Meren deck, and the reason for that is that I built a golgari graveyard recursion deck, and then looked at the legendary creatures I put in here that would be best as commander, and it was obviously Meren. There are games where I don't even cast her, my deck is not centered around her, she is just a very good recursion piece that's always available and that scales really well as the game goes on. Sometimes I even switch the commander to Mazirek, or Old Stinckfingers depending on my mood.
Muldrotha was one of my first Builds. I like atraxa because every deck can be different. I do wish wizards would make more in those colors since the non black 4 color has got so many more.
Happy New Years, Demo! Thank you for all the great advice you've given us this last year; Congrats, again, on your sponsorship!; and I'm really looking forward to watching you actually play some games this year and hope the channel continues to thrive.
Nekusar continues to be my only edh deck and for one reason. My group happens to have one guy at the table that will literally ruin the game if he gets targeted in anyway. I used to run a Thraximundar deck and I remember one time when I swing at him and he to sacrifice just one of his 20 tokens, he went on a 30 minute rant about being targeted, just made a big deal. So, when I started using Nekusar it gave me the ultimate out. I'm not targeting anyone, I'm just helping you draw cards. I also run Havoc Festival, so we can all die fairly lmao
Happy New Year! I still rock Derevi Empyrial Tactician. With all the bant goodness from through out the years. It has so many lines to win cons, its redic how easy it is pilot and by accident go infinite lol
TL;DR Zur the Enchanter was always recognized as boogeyman, and it's literally only gotten better with time. In 2006/7 my friend and I were new to competitive magic, and during one Standard FNM a guy was talking to us about the 100 card singleton format. The way he described it sounded really fun and our interest was completely piqued… until he said his Zur deck could win on turn 4. Immediately our interest went to zero… we were struggling to be competitive in 60 card standard, what hope did we have in an eternal format? It wasn't until 2011 with the first Commander precon set released that I was ready to play the format. It's crazy how the guy was able to sell us on EDH, to having it completely reviled in the span on two sentences.
Similar takeaway here. Never quite 'got' into MtG, but was curious about Commander. When I finally started playing last year, I soon realized how much of a self-aggrandizing slugfest it was. I still try to enjoy games with my mostly flavor-based decks, but jeez, the way many people approach the format seems to defeat the concept of fun.
My marchesa deck is just losing monarch and getting monarch back constantly with "you become.the monarch" cards. Getting both the tokens and draws. Running the cards that make people want to attack me like Coveted Jewel etc. It's much more fun than what others seem to build
As much as people absolutely loathe resource denial in commander wouldn't graveyard hate be a form of resource denial to a person that is using their graveyard as a resource?
Crybabys. They are the same people that play mono blue all counterspells, denying you the resource of spells, and cry about you wanting to play LD or stax. They all fit a certain psychological profile and they are insufferable.
Ur-Dragon doesn't feel nearly as oppressive as Edgar, though. Ur-Dragon's eminence ability, while still eminence and strong, is only making dragons come out a turn faster. Edgar adds to the board, enabling lots and lots of different strategies at no extra cost.
The cost is the commander!!!!!! There is a cost! I don't know why people don't recognise it. I'm not disputing that the ability is very powerful. But many/most great commanders also have very powerful abilities!! I play an Edgar deck, and the free chumps are both great and not great at the same time. Edgar forces you into building a creature based Vampire deck. You're going to miss out on the commanders +side if you don't go for a board heavy game plan. A plan that can be very easily countered with spot removal, board wipes and board pressure of your own. It's strong, but not broken in my opinion.
@@jamesespinosa690Edgar is broken. It’s ok to like it and play it, but let’s not kid ourselves. I also have an deck with him at the helm and it’s busted. You start the game with a free emblem that can never be interacted with. That’s insane.
I built Kaalia this year and because she is such a big target and either goes 100 or 0, I've built it to have partial stax as well so I don't just die right away if I can't kill everyone quick. As for my Edgar deck, I just run a lot of small vampires with a ton of anthems and before you know it, I have a bunch of 10/10s running everywhere.
I recently dug out my old kaalia deck to see if I want to try and re-vamp it or just scrap it. I know she's gotten a lot of big, new flappy-bois to play with but she's very much a glass cannon that draws a lot of targeting even when her strat *definitely* is not as strong as it was ten years ago. I definitely don't enjoy her as much as newer commanders I've built. 😕
Zur was my first commander deck. It was just a bunch of bulk auras thrown together and yet everybody just milled him. I didn’t even know what neceopotence was at the time 😭
I very recently dismantled my Nekusar deck for Lynde. It's not completely gone, I just removed the lands and staples from it. Still feels a little bad though even though I could easily put it back together lol
I do still have Edgar Markov, Ur-Dragon and Krenko. I use Animar in Magus Lucea Kane though. I am planning to build Atraxa to use as a Shell for my Perrie deck because it's a different way to play and unique to me.
With Nekusar, I call it my anti wheel deck, just for the fact that when most people wheel, the play group doesn’t mind cause they’re either getting card advantage or getting rid of bad hand, but with Nekusar, they’re being punished allowing me to wheel or allow engine pieces that deal extra damage for drawing and discarding
Demo you should check out the Sunforger aikido themed decks that use Queen Marchesa, feel like you might enjoy that build style if you haven't seen it before
When everything's a target, nothing is a target. :) Got to love atraxa, my comfort zone for sure. Been playing her since she released and almost every shell even energy and experience.
I started with a Reaper King Deck, quickly went to a Kaalia deck. I specifically went with no mana rocks to keep her stunted. Over the years I've been able to power her up more with ramp again. When I want a win for the night, I switch to Kaalia. And I don't run the Master of Cruelties combo, as it can only kill 1 player then you become the target. Way better cards to put in there. Need to update her, but she still kicks.
Meren was one of my favorite decks, and ended up being my intro to cedh. But dont throw shade at ezuri claw or progress, that was capable of one hell of a combo pile back in the day and could brew something down right silly today.
only have 1 edh deck. I'm more of a 60card eternal format player, but due to peer pressure back in the day I have to make a commander. That's Kaalia of the Vast, upgraded over time... and it's bonkers. Can convert into Cedh quite ez too.
I play the ur dragon and Sidar both have eminence It helps but typically it just puts a target on you head. Even when there is a higher power level deck next to you.
Of all of the decks you mentioned nekusaur is my favorite and I still build it up to be one of my main spellslinger decks with cards that work with ability present still. I have a simple plan for it knowing that he is kill on site. The plan is to never cast him unless I need a blocker or to see how fast people kill it. My version has tergrid, sheodred the apocalypse, waste not etc as other cards to take his place when I get a chance to do. My favorite creature is Liesa shroud of dusk and my version of her deck is worse than my nekusaur deck in my opinion
nippickwith #1 its now a "Phyrexian angel horror she got hit by the errata wave on modern horizons 2 but yea these commanders still pop up from time to time in formats and i remember why golos was #1 briefly and it was one of your earlier videos basically everyone was being diabolicall and secretly make it not a 5 color deck. (like the story you mentioned with someone replacing their erebos commander with golos just so he can get the urborg and cabal coffers combo.)
I had a oloro super friends/ control deck for the longest time, he was my first ever commander deck. I miss him but I also don’t play those color combinations anymore
Honestly I think marrow-gnawer should get an honorable mention, he has only gotten more popular and more support over time. Even with newer legendary rats he’s still well liked
Muldrotha and Sultai in general kinda feels like a flash in the pan menace colour combo back in the day. For like 8 months muldrotha was the most popular commander and I felt like I was seeing them the two snakes lady’s and mimeoplasm everywhere when I was still only like a year or so into the format.
I currently use wilhelt but in my opinion it’s less of a choice considering it is the only decent zombie tribal commander available. There are a ton of good support/zombie cards but not so much for commanders. As mentioned Nekusar is still a used commander but is used in more of a general sense vs a zombie deck.
I think what CAN make a commander like Krenko or Markov problematic is not their average powerlevel (or the emminence ability) but the issue of these cards being a bit too strong in lower power level games, where people either don't. Also Sol-Ring still being legal doesn't help. There will just be games, where someone just gets the sol-ring turn one into lightning greaves, into turn 2 krenko and by turn 3 they already have 6-8 goblins against players, who brought their slightly modified precon that has MAYBE a couple of boardwipes in it. So really, a lot og "too good" commanders really aren't "too strong" but they can still be too strong in certain environments and it's not just low-player skill. Like when I make my decks I kind of also want to keep in mind that my friends want to seet their decks do "their thing" so I will purposefully chill a bit on the removal and just concentrate on also doing "my thing". I do have a Minsnk & Boo (planeswalker version) deck, where I can repeatedly fling the hamster for damage and draw more cards and it basically ruins casual decks that rely on their commander to be out (so... monolithic commanders) and it can lead to frustrating games for them because they know they can't really keep their commanders in play because I can repeatedly snipe them. I also wonder, how many commander games are 1v1 instead of the full 4 players. From my own experience, it's not that easy (after a certain age, I'm 40+) to always get four friends together frequently. And certain agro strategies tend to do better when you only have to kill one player.
Yep, one of those people who built a Edgar deck in 2015 or so before it crested 90 buckaroos or whatever. 😂 My friend has one too; he bought it in the Anthology or as a precon or something? I built mine from the ground up; people roll their eyes at it if I ever pull it out, so I haven't played it since before the pandemic. 🤷♂️
Quick correction: Queen Marchessa wasn't printed for Commander. It clearly had Commander in mind, but that was Conspiracy Eminence isn't an inherently bad idea, but it was far too generous on that one in particular. Notice how no one talks about the wizard cloning Eminence commander or the pump a kitty one. If Edgar had to pay 1 like the wizards do, it would be a topic one would occasional discuss but roll one's eyes to. I think Commander started to really show up around Shards block - which tracks with when they started making the precons For some of those really old ones, I wonder how reliable those stats are: How often does a retired deck get removed?
I mean anything dies to removal, and Myrrim has built in protection from targeted removal. Meanwhile if they have a few mana left over after it lands they can mess up your day by playing one card
Kelsien is still my favorite exp deck, but also because I have a lot of other exp counter creatures in the deck. But I've had salty tables that scoop because I was killing a single creature each turn rotation and somehow that was to much for everyone. I wasn't even untapping it each turn so it was just 1 deathouch kill each rotation and they all claimed I was power level 8+ for that. Still makes me salty at how dumb that game was.
In my opinion that type of situation is the single most glaring issue with the format right now. People wrinkling their nose up and arbitrarily deeming anything that is even remotely too powerful and throwing a hissy fit is so childish. It's like they forget that it's a competitive game where the objective is to win. These people seriously picked the wrong hobby, and need to find a new one.That is in no way oppressive enough to incite that reaction. Damn crybabies.
I enjoyed the video, but I do have a series question. While I won't argue that I do still see a lot of these, some of these figures may be misleading. Since I don't build my decks with websites, I am not sure, but I wonder how long those decks stay on that website, such as EDH Rec. So, are there still 14,000 Kahlia decks, or have some of them just not been deleted?
I love Edgar Markov, I’ve still got my deck for him, and regularly upgrade it with all the new vampires that come out, but yeah, he honestly shouldn’t have been printed like that. Honestly, the biggest hurdle to casting him in a game is his actual cost. Like, 6 mana for a 4/4 hasty first striker who buffs my board is not bad at all, recasting him would take 8 mana, and at that point I’d just put him in time out. If he was even a single mana less, I’d feel better about recasting him.
Marrow-Gnawer Is another super old commander that still going strong. Second most played mono black commander and #75 overall. Nobody can stop the love for rats
It's not confusing that a lot of these popular, because they're very easy to build and program. The direction is often clear and easy to pilot, or the direction is often not that clear, but they make a good commander for control, pillow fort, etc, because they're so generic.
Edgar Markov is not that OP as you state, but a lot of people end up just winning with Sanguine bond + Exquisite Blood infinite which is lame. If you haven't lost to that, I would be surprised
The thing about edhrec is that its just a database for card lists that could be made for fun, testing, etc. How many of these actually exist in real-life or are currently played? Dont get me wrong, its a great resource but only a small sample of the format. Many players dont even touch edhrec. At my locals and gaming group, we barely ever see any of the “popular commanders” like we see waaay more of the “weaker” experience commanders more than meren.... also havent seen kaalia in years, its always teamed up against.... shrug.. also, i play multiple goblin and mono red decks but i dont like krenko at all. He’s aite, but not my style lol
Eminence goes against the rules of the game. Magic is a game of resources management and eminence (then fierce guardianship) is simply Wizards asking the community "Are you willing to pay to break the rules"?
Nekusar will always be a kill on site commander for me. WotC had just changed the legendary rule a bit before C13 came out and commander has become the most popular format at my college’s mtg club. Four or five people bought the grixis precon deck so many games became ‘draw four cards on your draw step and take 16 damage’. Now that we have so many more legendary creatures to choose from I haven’t run into that scenario in years…but oof was that not a fun time
Well ye i still main my Meren deck and it still owns the table even after my playgroup added an arsenal of grave hate to the decks, no wonder this commander is still high on the list
I tell ya, Meren is still a boogeyman. I had to take my beloved Meren deck apart because it was just too good, nobody was having fun but me. She can still win with the power of pure inevitability.
Keeping the Monarchy isn't about drawing a card. It's about sending a message
Everything burns
I just love how all these old commanders are so iconic, the character actually means something, and the art is so well done
I'm certainly "one of those guys" and try to add new cards to my old decks. My soldier deck has been suffering because they have made some cool White Green Soldiers and to this point, my soldiers decks was White Red. Often when I add the new coolness the deck can suffer in playability. Great list!
New cards help my decks far more often then not. Are you just throwing stuff in because it fits the theme?
Yeah same, i dont understand taking apart decks left and right
My big crime is always wanting the new thematic hotness which doesn't really help my game. @@joelanderson5285
Definitely me. I have decks still from 2011. Just keep upgrading them. 29 decks total now and 9 more in the process building.
EDH Rec is a great resource but it tracks digital decks, I have built many decks online and many more IRL with very little overlap - I've found that in the wild these decks show up less often (possible people still own them, but they don't come out very often)
My favorite thing with Orolo is to make a token copy, let the commander die and go back, now I get 2 triggers of life gain, and access to his drain ability.
Cactus hug is a good name for that kind of thing. I’ve also referred to it as “bear hug”, in reference to the wrestling move since it’s a hug meant to cause pain. I recently made a deck full of undercosted big beaters with group hug style “downsides” to them and I’ve been calling it my Tsundere deck since the goal is to be both nice and mean to my opponents at the same time.
I literally rolled my eyes when you mentioned Meren. So many memories, so much pain.
Oloro was awesome in that his life gain was open ended enough to run a bunch of different strategies. I ran my version back in the day as a enchantress stax deck. Used the Theros enchantment creatures to have no non enchantment creatures other than Oloro in the Deck.
Agree, Oloro is the only life gain in the deck I built. Just filled the deck with punisher cards like Ankh of Mishra, Liesa, Pestilence etc and hope that I'm alive at the end of it all 😂
Oloro was my second and most favourite commander of all time! I started off trying to make him a crappy life gain deck. But since I was playing standard during the Return to Ravnica + Theros era, and U/W Control was one of the main decks. I learned a lot from there, and turned my Oloro deck into what I now call 'boardwipe tribal'. 10ish good board wipes + esper control + 6 or 7 of my favourite giant death star monster cards that can win games on their own. And boom, I built the deck that won me our local summer EDH league! The +2life was used to give me that little bit of breathing room to 'safely' get into the mid to late game and dominate!
I love Oloro so much! LIke you said, he enables so many different strategies!!
He really helped me make my friend mono white Saint Celestine life gain deck a total powerhouse too!!!
Thanks Demo,
for all your nice input on cards, deck strategies and nice-to-know stuff around the game we like and love!
All the best to you and your loved once and I hope your channel will grow further in 2024! Stay healthy! 😊
hear, hear!
Meren of Clan Nel Toth was the first time I saw people saying a commander/card would kill the format. Those precons coming out were huge
Over the years I think Queen Marchesa has got better because more cards have come out that reward you for being the monarch - like the court cycle
Agree 100% there are some really nice pay offs for keeping the crown.
I builded a Nekusar Deck which try to "throw" away the crown to punish creedy carddraw with one more instance. But I wish there will be more options in Grixis which supports this kind of theme...
In generell i think, outside of maybe control players, everyone likes having monarch around. Personally i try to add 1 or 2 cards with it in any deck when possible and it just makes games run more interestingly.
@@stefanwilhelm6046 How do you 'throw' it? Are there any good goad procing cards?
@@jamesespinosa690 You can use "Denethor the stone seer" or "Starscream, power hungry" as only option but those are Universe beyond cards...
Demo! Love the content. And in the most respectful, non-aggressive way possible, I just wanted to either remind or point out that WotC & the mtg community is moving away from using "tribal" and towards "kindred" or "typal" out of respect for certain indigenous peoples out there. Again, love the content, keep doing an outstanding job. Look forward to seeing what you have in store for us in 2024. Happy new year!
Thanks for the insight in all your videos demo. With regards to keyword soup on Atraxa, it's meant to represent the embodiment of the mana infused into her when she was created. Flying=blue, vigilance=white, deathtouch=green, lifelink=black. Its also why she isn't rainbow, as urabrask was so non-involved in phyrexian affairs that he wasn't involved in her creation.
If she had been prismatic she could've had Haste or Menace too! Scary to think about!
Happy New Year! Your channel remains my favourite MTG channel due to your relaxed nature and your often unique insight into older cards and how they synergies with new commanders. Keep being yourself!
It should be considered that these older commanders are still so popular because with so many sets and new cards being released so often it doesn’t really give anything time to really shine. It makes it kinda overwhelming choosing what you want to make so what do you do, you go online and see what’s popular OR if your knowledge is outdated then you’ll think “oh ya back when I played this card was good”.
Krenko is probably the commander i lost to the most and STILL i never complain about seeing him.
Next in line is probably the selesnya enchantress 2 drop whose name i never can remember.
Nekusar appreciates the contribution of orcish bowmaster
I do still have my Oloro deck! And it's french language too because I thought it'd be ironic to have a French Oloro Commander deck since at the time it was banned in "French Commander" the 1v1 version of the game. The entire deck was french at one time but as new cards came and went it became too difficult to get certain cards in the language I wanted so only most of it is still french. Mine is definitely a lifegain/good stuff build. I use the life I gain as a resource. Ice Age painlands and Mana Crypt doesn't sting as much when you're gaining 2 life each turn plus most of the creatures have Lifelink as well. I also have a Yavimaya Cradle of Growth in there and a Lifetap so I can gain a life for each land my opponents tap. :D
I started playing edh around 2008. Zur was a powerhouse then, and still is. However many powerful deck I used to see from that 08-11 before the precon decks have fallen away into the shadows.
I think a lot of the older commanders are still so popular because of PTSD. Walk up to any table in the country and drop down a Sliver or Markov deck. Someone at the table will immediately declare war against you. Doesn't matter how you built it, if you run an OG commander or tribe you are getting bodied purely as a trauma response.
I don’t think eminence itself is busted. I think the first round of eminence cards we got were busted, especially Edgar Markov. Having played against Inalla, Edgar, Arabho, and Sidar, I can tell you that Sidar was, BY FAR, the most fair eminence commander to play against. It’s second ability actually incentivized you to actually cast and attack with him, instead of just keeping him in the command zone
I don't believe abilities in command zone is bad, just think most where made too strong, the new Knight one is probably the tamest one
Still, having a payoff while doing essentialy nothing is a pain to non emminence players
@@Mamadeira_Having the opponent start the game with an emblem is rought.
Still, i dont think any of the eminence commanders are ban worthy strong. Just because while really good for the strategies they support, those strategies themselfs are pretty fragile.
@@Mamadeira_ They aren't "essentially doing nothing" to paraphrase you. They have to pick that specific commander. That is a BIG cost!!! I don't think you understand how each of the different eminence commanders have their own trade offs!!!
Oloro never coming out and not having an impact on the board 98% of the time isn't actually always a good thing. I tried getting him out, but he's just so slow, and doesn't do enough with his pay compared to what some of the other great creatures in my deck can do. He's too expensive to be a cheap beater to protect my face.
The Ur-Dragon is really good in that he enables a bad tribe to be great*.
Edgar Markarov is strong. But not too strong. His trade off is that he forces you into a very board heavy, aggro game plan. You're not going to get much pay off if you play a non Vampire Aggro deck with Edgar.
The Sidar Knights deck is similar to Edgar. Tribal aggro. Board heavy. Both can easily be contained by spot removal + board wipes.
I haven't played with or against the others yet so I can't say with them. They are definitely strong. But not too strong in my opinion.
Cheers!
I started playing commander with a Prossh deck and that bad boy still kicking
I play Prossh too. I love Prossh. Prossh is still so good.
Hey that tshirt its really cool Demo, i really like it😮.
Krenko still is very very popular. Its very fun to play.
Have a happy New Year Demo. Thanks for upload so many great content on this year. Thanks for all your tops and your edh rules videos and the deck doctors. Thanks for all bro.😊
Happy New Year, dude. Thanx for all the Great content. Looking forward to more next year.
I have a Meren deck, and the reason for that is that I built a golgari graveyard recursion deck, and then looked at the legendary creatures I put in here that would be best as commander, and it was obviously Meren.
There are games where I don't even cast her, my deck is not centered around her, she is just a very good recursion piece that's always available and that scales really well as the game goes on.
Sometimes I even switch the commander to Mazirek, or Old Stinckfingers depending on my mood.
Muldrotha was one of my first
Builds. I like atraxa because every deck can be different. I do wish wizards would make more in those colors since the non black 4 color has got so many more.
From the midwest we call "cactus hug" a "bear hug" cause you want the hug but you know its not going to be pleasant hug
Happy New Years, Demo! Thank you for all the great advice you've given us this last year; Congrats, again, on your sponsorship!; and I'm really looking forward to watching you actually play some games this year and hope the channel continues to thrive.
Rocking my Dragon Tribal Ur Dragon Deck since i bought the pre-con. :x
Nekusar continues to be my only edh deck and for one reason. My group happens to have one guy at the table that will literally ruin the game if he gets targeted in anyway. I used to run a Thraximundar deck and I remember one time when I swing at him and he to sacrifice just one of his 20 tokens, he went on a 30 minute rant about being targeted, just made a big deal.
So, when I started using Nekusar it gave me the ultimate out. I'm not targeting anyone, I'm just helping you draw cards. I also run Havoc Festival, so we can all die fairly lmao
Still love my markov and Kaalia decks!
I run nekusar as a pet deck, used to run a puzzle box/wheel deck back in the day in legacy so it's just nostalgic for me.
That Squidmar IntotheAM shirt is SICK!!!
Happy New Year!
I still rock Derevi Empyrial Tactician. With all the bant goodness from through out the years. It has so many lines to win cons, its redic how easy it is pilot and by accident go infinite lol
TL;DR Zur the Enchanter was always recognized as boogeyman, and it's literally only gotten better with time.
In 2006/7 my friend and I were new to competitive magic, and during one Standard FNM a guy was talking to us about the 100 card singleton format. The way he described it sounded really fun and our interest was completely piqued… until he said his Zur deck could win on turn 4. Immediately our interest went to zero… we were struggling to be competitive in 60 card standard, what hope did we have in an eternal format? It wasn't until 2011 with the first Commander precon set released that I was ready to play the format. It's crazy how the guy was able to sell us on EDH, to having it completely reviled in the span on two sentences.
Similar takeaway here. Never quite 'got' into MtG, but was curious about Commander. When I finally started playing last year, I soon realized how much of a self-aggrandizing slugfest it was. I still try to enjoy games with my mostly flavor-based decks, but jeez, the way many people approach the format seems to defeat the concept of fun.
My marchesa deck is just losing monarch and getting monarch back constantly with "you become.the monarch" cards. Getting both the tokens and draws. Running the cards that make people want to attack me like Coveted Jewel etc. It's much more fun than what others seem to build
Still got my krenko deck from release with some updates. And a zada deck too. Built my first muldrotha deck 3 months ago.
As much as people absolutely loathe resource denial in commander wouldn't graveyard hate be a form of resource denial to a person that is using their graveyard as a resource?
Crybabys. They are the same people that play mono blue all counterspells, denying you the resource of spells, and cry about you wanting to play LD or stax. They all fit a certain psychological profile and they are insufferable.
Ur-Dragon doesn't feel nearly as oppressive as Edgar, though. Ur-Dragon's eminence ability, while still eminence and strong, is only making dragons come out a turn faster. Edgar adds to the board, enabling lots and lots of different strategies at no extra cost.
The cost is the commander!!!!!!
There is a cost! I don't know why people don't recognise it.
I'm not disputing that the ability is very powerful. But many/most great commanders also have very powerful abilities!! I play an Edgar deck, and the free chumps are both great and not great at the same time. Edgar forces you into building a creature based Vampire deck. You're going to miss out on the commanders +side if you don't go for a board heavy game plan. A plan that can be very easily countered with spot removal, board wipes and board pressure of your own.
It's strong, but not broken in my opinion.
@@jamesespinosa690Edgar is broken. It’s ok to like it and play it, but let’s not kid ourselves. I also have an deck with him at the helm and it’s busted. You start the game with a free emblem that can never be interacted with. That’s insane.
I built Kaalia this year and because she is such a big target and either goes 100 or 0, I've built it to have partial stax as well so I don't just die right away if I can't kill everyone quick. As for my Edgar deck, I just run a lot of small vampires with a ton of anthems and before you know it, I have a bunch of 10/10s running everywhere.
I recently dug out my old kaalia deck to see if I want to try and re-vamp it or just scrap it. I know she's gotten a lot of big, new flappy-bois to play with but she's very much a glass cannon that draws a lot of targeting even when her strat *definitely* is not as strong as it was ten years ago. I definitely don't enjoy her as much as newer commanders I've built. 😕
Zur was my first commander deck. It was just a bunch of bulk auras thrown together and yet everybody just milled him. I didn’t even know what neceopotence was at the time 😭
I very recently dismantled my Nekusar deck for Lynde. It's not completely gone, I just removed the lands and staples from it. Still feels a little bad though even though I could easily put it back together lol
Krenko might be one of the most fun plays I've ever made in a sliver deck.
The price drops with reprint helped with most of these.
As a former atraxa superfreinds player sorry for the absolute discust we brought apon you. 😂 all jokes aside its cool to see some classics stick
I do still have Edgar Markov, Ur-Dragon and Krenko. I use Animar in Magus Lucea Kane though. I am planning to build Atraxa to use as a Shell for my Perrie deck because it's a different way to play and unique to me.
With Nekusar, I call it my anti wheel deck, just for the fact that when most people wheel, the play group doesn’t mind cause they’re either getting card advantage or getting rid of bad hand, but with Nekusar, they’re being punished allowing me to wheel or allow engine pieces that deal extra damage for drawing and discarding
Carrion with the great content brother 🤘
Demo you should check out the Sunforger aikido themed decks that use Queen Marchesa, feel like you might enjoy that build style if you haven't seen it before
When everything's a target, nothing is a target. :)
Got to love atraxa, my comfort zone for sure. Been playing her since she released and almost every shell even energy and experience.
I started with a Reaper King Deck, quickly went to a Kaalia deck. I specifically went with no mana rocks to keep her stunted. Over the years I've been able to power her up more with ramp again.
When I want a win for the night, I switch to Kaalia. And I don't run the Master of Cruelties combo, as it can only kill 1 player then you become the target. Way better cards to put in there.
Need to update her, but she still kicks.
Meren was one of my favorite decks, and ended up being my intro to cedh. But dont throw shade at ezuri claw or progress, that was capable of one hell of a combo pile back in the day and could brew something down right silly today.
Yes, I was surprised you didn't have Ur Dragon #2, but I guess you mentioned that later in the video.
only have 1 edh deck. I'm more of a 60card eternal format player, but due to peer pressure back in the day I have to make a commander. That's Kaalia of the Vast, upgraded over time... and it's bonkers. Can convert into Cedh quite ez too.
I play the ur dragon and Sidar both have eminence It helps but typically it just puts a target on you head. Even when there is a higher power level deck next to you.
I call nekusar effects strangle effects. Its like a hug, but on the throat
Of all of the decks you mentioned nekusaur is my favorite and I still build it up to be one of my main spellslinger decks with cards that work with ability present still. I have a simple plan for it knowing that he is kill on site. The plan is to never cast him unless I need a blocker or to see how fast people kill it. My version has tergrid, sheodred the apocalypse, waste not etc as other cards to take his place when I get a chance to do. My favorite creature is Liesa shroud of dusk and my version of her deck is worse than my nekusaur deck in my opinion
Nekusar has gotten even more support too. Sheoldred the Apocalypse and Orcish Bow master
nippickwith #1 its now a "Phyrexian angel horror she got hit by the errata wave on modern horizons 2
but yea these commanders still pop up from time to time in formats
and i remember why golos was #1 briefly and it was one of your earlier videos basically everyone was being diabolicall and secretly make it not a 5 color deck. (like the story you mentioned with someone replacing their erebos commander with golos just so he can get the urborg and cabal coffers combo.)
I had a oloro super friends/ control deck for the longest time, he was my first ever commander deck. I miss him but I also don’t play those color combinations anymore
Honestly I think marrow-gnawer should get an honorable mention, he has only gotten more popular and more support over time. Even with newer legendary rats he’s still well liked
The best marchesa deck iv seen was a group slug deck, howling mine, font, you name it, and its win con was overwhelming numbers with life taxes
Muldrotha and Sultai in general kinda feels like a flash in the pan menace colour combo back in the day. For like 8 months muldrotha was the most popular commander and I felt like I was seeing them the two snakes lady’s and mimeoplasm everywhere when I was still only like a year or so into the format.
It was less about the Commander and more about Sultai dredge decks until it was basically mandatory to include graveyard hate.
I used to play pretty much exclusively black/white. My best friend built an Animar for whenever we would one V one
Zur is my CEDH commander. Love him.
Ah, Nekusar. Had him since 2014 or so. I'm finding a spot for Aclazotz when I have the chance.
I currently use wilhelt but in my opinion it’s less of a choice considering it is the only decent zombie tribal commander available.
There are a ton of good support/zombie cards but not so much for commanders.
As mentioned Nekusar is still a used commander but is used in more of a general sense vs a zombie deck.
Queen Marchesa is one of my favourite decks.
It’s a politics deck that has a dragon sub theme.
Queen Marchesa Mother of Dragons
I think what CAN make a commander like Krenko or Markov problematic is not their average powerlevel (or the emminence ability) but the issue of these cards being a bit too strong in lower power level games, where people either don't. Also Sol-Ring still being legal doesn't help. There will just be games, where someone just gets the sol-ring turn one into lightning greaves, into turn 2 krenko and by turn 3 they already have 6-8 goblins against players, who brought their slightly modified precon that has MAYBE a couple of boardwipes in it. So really, a lot og "too good" commanders really aren't "too strong" but they can still be too strong in certain environments and it's not just low-player skill. Like when I make my decks I kind of also want to keep in mind that my friends want to seet their decks do "their thing" so I will purposefully chill a bit on the removal and just concentrate on also doing "my thing".
I do have a Minsnk & Boo (planeswalker version) deck, where I can repeatedly fling the hamster for damage and draw more cards and it basically ruins casual decks that rely on their commander to be out (so... monolithic commanders) and it can lead to frustrating games for them because they know they can't really keep their commanders in play because I can repeatedly snipe them.
I also wonder, how many commander games are 1v1 instead of the full 4 players. From my own experience, it's not that easy (after a certain age, I'm 40+) to always get four friends together frequently. And certain agro strategies tend to do better when you only have to kill one player.
Yep, one of those people who built a Edgar deck in 2015 or so before it crested 90 buckaroos or whatever. 😂 My friend has one too; he bought it in the Anthology or as a precon or something? I built mine from the ground up; people roll their eyes at it if I ever pull it out, so I haven't played it since before the pandemic. 🤷♂️
Quick correction: Queen Marchessa wasn't printed for Commander. It clearly had Commander in mind, but that was Conspiracy
Eminence isn't an inherently bad idea, but it was far too generous on that one in particular. Notice how no one talks about the wizard cloning Eminence commander or the pump a kitty one. If Edgar had to pay 1 like the wizards do, it would be a topic one would occasional discuss but roll one's eyes to.
I think Commander started to really show up around Shards block - which tracks with when they started making the precons
For some of those really old ones, I wonder how reliable those stats are: How often does a retired deck get removed?
Kaalia was a lot of players first commander even newer commander players, thats why it’s still so popular. Also demons dragons and angels are cool
it's been 10 sets since wilds of eldraine I think we need a 20 cards you should be running video
I mean anything dies to removal, and Myrrim has built in protection from targeted removal. Meanwhile if they have a few mana left over after it lands they can mess up your day by playing one card
Riku Of Two Reflections still going strong, wizard tribal with copy-creatures and biovisionary wincon.
All hail Phyrexia!
Would you ever consider doing best precon commander decks for beginners?
Ghoulcaller Gisa is still my favorite commander deck to play.
Kelsien is still my favorite exp deck, but also because I have a lot of other exp counter creatures in the deck. But I've had salty tables that scoop because I was killing a single creature each turn rotation and somehow that was to much for everyone. I wasn't even untapping it each turn so it was just 1 deathouch kill each rotation and they all claimed I was power level 8+ for that. Still makes me salty at how dumb that game was.
In my opinion that type of situation is the single most glaring issue with the format right now. People wrinkling their nose up and arbitrarily deeming anything that is even remotely too powerful and throwing a hissy fit is so childish. It's like they forget that it's a competitive game where the objective is to win. These people seriously picked the wrong hobby, and need to find a new one.That is in no way oppressive enough to incite that reaction. Damn crybabies.
I enjoyed the video, but I do have a series question. While I won't argue that I do still see a lot of these, some of these figures may be misleading. Since I don't build my decks with websites, I am not sure, but I wonder how long those decks stay on that website, such as EDH Rec. So, are there still 14,000 Kahlia decks, or have some of them just not been deleted?
I got narset my bling one / krenko / urza / kaalia 😅
My Queen Marchesa is Aristocrats. The pillow fort build never worked for me.
I still play Edgar Markov, my first edh and is meren of clan nel toth.
I love Edgar Markov, I’ve still got my deck for him, and regularly upgrade it with all the new vampires that come out, but yeah, he honestly shouldn’t have been printed like that.
Honestly, the biggest hurdle to casting him in a game is his actual cost. Like, 6 mana for a 4/4 hasty first striker who buffs my board is not bad at all, recasting him would take 8 mana, and at that point I’d just put him in time out. If he was even a single mana less, I’d feel better about recasting him.
I just ran into someone playing Nekusar last night. That’s funny.
25:39 why the saying "don't let them untap with x" but when you cast it its already untapped.. the saying isnt logic proof..
Marrow-Gnawer Is another super old commander that still going strong. Second most played mono black commander and #75 overall. Nobody can stop the love for rats
It's not confusing that a lot of these popular, because they're very easy to build and program. The direction is often clear and easy to pilot, or the direction is often not that clear, but they make a good commander for control, pillow fort, etc, because they're so generic.
Edgar Markov is not that OP as you state, but a lot of people end up just winning with Sanguine bond + Exquisite Blood infinite which is lame. If you haven't lost to that, I would be surprised
The thing about edhrec is that its just a database for card lists that could be made for fun, testing, etc. How many of these actually exist in real-life or are currently played? Dont get me wrong, its a great resource but only a small sample of the format. Many players dont even touch edhrec. At my locals and gaming group, we barely ever see any of the “popular commanders” like we see waaay more of the “weaker” experience commanders more than meren.... also havent seen kaalia in years, its always teamed up against.... shrug.. also, i play multiple goblin and mono red decks but i dont like krenko at all. He’s aite, but not my style lol
Eminence goes against the rules of the game. Magic is a game of resources management and eminence (then fierce guardianship) is simply Wizards asking the community "Are you willing to pay to break the rules"?
isnt Nekuzar+ Peer into the abyss an instant kill?
Zur was my first commander. Yes I like chaos
Dude, where is your t-shirt from?
Nekusar will always be a kill on site commander for me. WotC had just changed the legendary rule a bit before C13 came out and commander has become the most popular format at my college’s mtg club. Four or five people bought the grixis precon deck so many games became ‘draw four cards on your draw step and take 16 damage’. Now that we have so many more legendary creatures to choose from I haven’t run into that scenario in years…but oof was that not a fun time
I think the only way to do an eminence commander is to make it unable to leave the command zone
Love the video
Well ye i still main my Meren deck and it still owns the table even after my playgroup added an arsenal of grave hate to the decks, no wonder this commander is still high on the list
I tell ya, Meren is still a boogeyman. I had to take my beloved Meren deck apart because it was just too good, nobody was having fun but me. She can still win with the power of pure inevitability.
There’s other and more benefits to being the monarch then just the extra card draw
Eminence is fine in my mind depending on the effect. Edgar is just really good and pushes it as you get constant free bodies.