Hi, been watching your channel from the UK for ages and to start with had no idea about batteries/solar but after a while of watching I now have a basic grasp of the theory.. Many thanks and hope you continue to post vlogs to us newbies😊
Being able to make your own power supply for different voltage/current levels today is more important than ever!!When you have your own electrical power at any level whenever and whereever that can be applied as quickly, safely is "SUCH a powerful tool to have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man this is awesome !! Discovered these 18650 by accident recently and for some strange reason i am following online and buying tons of gadgets, chargers, cables, multimeter, etc, etc, building a battery pack myself, i first got cells from my old Thinkpad, testing them was fun and i fell into the rabbit hole so to speak, i am autistic and this sort of thing is right up my street, always enjoyed having collections of batteries and chargers but never had a need for 18650 until now, its so addictive !! great video thanks.
Great video. A couple of things I noticed. You mentioned that you set up the jst connectors to hook up your little gizmo to see how your batteries are doing....in reality it will only show you how each 'group' of 12 batteries, set up in parallel, are doing. It will not tell you if an individual cell is having issues. This will initially be masked by having the others cover for it, forcing them to work harder and weakening them as well. Which can lead to issues down the road. Unless you check them individually, you can only check up on the group as a whole. The 2nd thing you mentioned is that you don't have to make all your batteries at the same time, that you can add to them as you go along. This might not be a good idea unless you can match their capacity. For the same reason as above, if the first battery you put together was in good shape, a few months later, after alot of use, it might have lost some of its capacity. If you then put a new battery together and add it to it, it will potentially be at a different (higher) capacity. This will lead to it working harder to cover for the older battery which will lead to it's losing capacity earlier. The stress could also cause the individual batteries to get out of balance and because you can't check them individually... You ideally want to match battery amperage and capacity before pairing them.
I've also some bad luck with the red Sanyo sells, they are really hot when i use them and i had some old ones in the past that had leaked, no other brand that i've personally seen had done that
That's a great little project! People will be able to follow along. Hey, on your miter saw, have you considered powering it with DC? It's probably got a "universal" motor that will run on either DC or AC. You'd need a 120 V pack, but you wouldn't need an inverter. Keep the projects coming!
That's exactly what I use except with a IEC/UPS kettle connection,I can't guarantee that mine are water proof but it's an innie connection so water will have trouble getting in
David there is a plastic sheet called Coroplast that is like plastic cardboard. It is commonly used to make signs and you can get it for free from some gas stations when they throw their signs away. I prefer to purchase 4X8 sheets and cut it up to make my dividers and covers. I use Kaptom tape where appropriate but only use packing tape on the Coroplast because the Coroplast in not high temp so why use high temp tape. Your plastic bottle is also not high temp but the Coroplast is much easier to use. Coroplast comes in different thicknesses the 4mil is the easiest to find and is what most gas station signs are made of. I much prefer the 2mil type but you will need to go to sign store to buy it!
Brilliantly designed pack! I've would add third wire to buss bars. Do not leave these voltage monitors / ballancers unattended in the pack. From what I remembered they drow their supply only from one cell in the pack. If the pack is left for long time without charging, this cell will be drained. Keep the good work
I don't know which is best, crimp only, or crimp and solder. But I do know that no matter which way I do it, there will be people telling me to do it the other way. LOL. When I made my video on LTO I crimped and soldered and received quite a bit of negative feedback for that.
DavidPoz Haha, I made a video with crimp and solder and received similar feedback. One of my electrical engineering profs justified the crimp and solder method stating that the solder wetting the copper prevents copper oxide from forming at the junction. Copper oxide is significantly less conducive than copper metal. Additionally the solder helps prevent the connection from wiggling loose as the crushed copper deforms over time from the pressure causing the connection to loosen up. Just my 0.02- I’ve never had trouble with crimp and solder and have seen crimp only fail many times before (mostly due to bad crimp jobs though).
Sure! It’s easy to teach something if the audience already knows all your ackronyms! That’s like teaching into the mirror. Only needs one person, no empathy and no thinking. Bye.
This would be a nice way too power up your RV camper. Small, and can be daisy chained in series for more amp hours. Imagine 6bof these in a camper, with solar panels on the roof, and a nice inverter. I imagine one could get several days off a bank of 6 of these.
Decent, except for the low amperage. Much of the fun of using that size battery is being able to draw hundreds of amps out of them when needed. I use only 6 of the 18650s in a portable "juicer" for my smartphone and it works well. I just used a "hodge podge" of batteries, some new, some used, I didn't care. It can charge my smartphone 3 times from 0 to 100% before it needs to be charged too.
Hi Dave, just watched this video of yours and liked it a lot. I was a little concerned when I saw you wrap that tape and then the shrink wrap around the whole bundle. I know it looked nice and neat but I was concerned about ventilation and air cooling. At the end you mentioned removing the gasket, and I assume that was what that was for, but with all the tape and wrap, there is no way you can get any air cooling. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the videos. M.
Heat dissipation is a concern for heavy loads or fast charges. Author mentions limiting the max amps for that reason. 20A max / 12P ~ 1.6A per 14S group, should not generate too much heat from 2.2Ah rated cells. For protection a BMS with thermal shutoff function could be used with sensors distributed within the block.
If There was ever a major failure and the fuses had to blow. I'm not sure that plastic bottle would insulate against short circuits. I just watched the video that average Joe done with his thermal cam. Showing the fuses blowing. I would love to see that test. Love your vids mate
Do you have any suggestions of something thin, non-conductive, with a higher temperature rating? I think 2-liter bottles are PET plastic, which is like 500°F. I think that's higher than the plastic in heat shrink, but I'm no engineer. There is also 2 layers of tape in the sandwich. I saw Average Joes video. It was great.
Good project. What I would really like to see is a project building a 12V battery. I have a desire to replace the 12V house batteries in my RV and if I could build a reliable 12V battery to replace the deepcycle lead acids then that would be great. IF I could build a 12v 1.3kva battery for $200 as opposed to nearly $1000 for a battleborn then that would be a project I might dive into. Ideally it would be a drop in replacement for lead acid and be in that save basic form factor and ideally with top post terminals so all the current wiring works. A 24v or 48v just requires too much modification to the existing systems of the RV for me to really consider going that route.
Is that spot welder really over $200? Unless I'm constantly making battery packs, that purchase would negate any saving of getting used cells. But awesome video!
Yes, the spot welder is over $200. I hope to make more builds of different types, so I'll get some use from it. But if you only have one battery then there are other ways to do it without buying the spot welder.
I thought the same about the price, so I made my own double pulse welder that provides consistent perfect welds for around $45. Check out 100A/40A Digital LCD Double Pulse Encoder Spot Welder Machine Time Control Module Board on ebay or Amazon.
Thanks for sharing David. I was wondering if you would mind giving me the best lay out and component values that I would need in order to build a 220 to 240 volt 5 kilowatt off grid solar system? Themis.
Careful - 18650(s) are addictive... I started with 96 of them and 2 years later they grew to 1,000(s) :) You may have done this but you didn't mention it, so just in case, let me suggest that one should match the ah(s) in each parallel row so they all have aproximately the same ah. For example, 12 * 2300ah cells in 1 parallel row is 27,600ah so you you want all the other parallel rows to have aprox 27,600ah total (+ / - 5'ish%). The better they are matched, the easier they will stay in balance as the battery is charged/discharged.
I can see how important this is Kenneth, I guess it matters more the more cells you have in P? Anyway, I'm considering making my next build with those 26650 LiFePo4 for my workshop powerwall (3kwh) The problem is I can't find a charger/discharger for those that can do the Milli-ah calculation. I don't think my Xtar Dragon 4 thingy can do that chemistry, even though its a GREAT charger.
There are lots of 12v builds on TH-cam. I like to stick with 48v stuff because my inverters are 48v. Maybe if I have a unique build that needs a 12v battery I'll build one.
I put 12 3 LG 18650 2600MAH CELLS IN MODEM BATTERIES solder in paral and only got 2 hours of run out of an 200 watt inverter. I got the same 2 hour run time with 4 lipo 4/ 8 amp hour in saire and out the same 2 hour run time. 12 3 LG 18650 2600MAH CELLS IN MODEM is = to 4 lipo 4 in saire!
Thank you. Battle born is using lifepo4 cells, so it's not quite a fair comparison, but I appreciate the compliment. As far as I know Battle Born does not have a 48v version, which would be nice.
hmmmm, ok so you know i like your videos and your diligence, but... this one concerned me... you didnt fuse anything (glass fuses per P set?), no cooling, isnt temperature a concern here too ? this is not a knock down comment, im sure you know that, keep up the awesome videos, just my wonders thats all
No worries. Actually, those nickel strips I used are cut in such a way that they are fuses. So every cell is fused on each side (positive and negative). I linked to the strips in the description. Yes, temperature can be a concern. These cells have an operating temperature up to 60°C. I'm currently doing some tests on the pack for the purpose of a follow up video. I discharged the whole pack in 2 hours, pushing it very hard, harder than it should be pushed. I recorded a maximum temperature inside the case of (think) 45°C. If you have any suggestions to make it better, I'm open to ideas. But this is not meant to be a high amp model pack. It's meant more for smaller loads.
I'm thinking about building this exact pack for powering an ebike conversion (750W nominal motor). Any concern with that? By my calculations, with the ebike contoller I'd be using, I'd be configuring it for 20A max discharge, and with the cells I'm using (rated max discharge of 3225mAh), the 10p configuration would give me 32.25A max discharge for the pack, so I'd be well within safety limits at 20A.
Sounds like you have done your math out right. I ran it for an hour with a temperature probe in there, and a 1C discharge. The box did get pretty warm, about 100°F inside. Still within specs, but I went an put a smaller circuit breaker on there limiting it to a 0.5C max. But I'm using modem cells that are not made for high discharge. If your cells are made for it (like from power tools) they won't get as warm.
forgive me for being silly but does ammo cans stop bullets fireing off in heat or very hot weather that may hurt or kill someone ?? if so would it contain and stop cell explosions and fires ?? was this the reason for the ammo can ??
Well, the ammo can would not stop a bullet. But the steel box would help contain a fire if the 18650 cells went bad. I'm not saying it's a guarantee, but I think it's a lot safer.
@@DavidPozEnergy thank you so much sir forget about the bullets it was just a thought as in if they stop them cracking off on there own then it makes total sence but that was the idea and if thease things get dangerous an short sadly there is no stopping them but id rather have this than plastic regards
Nice work! I wish they made cheap battery holders for 21700s. The ones I found are 5 times the cost of them 18650 holders. I made my own due to cost. Almost done with my 200ah 21700 battery for my new solar generator. I don't have the balls to put it on TH-cam tho. I could email ya the pics and see if you have better ideas than me. Would be cool to have your input.
have you looked at incorporating super caps into builds? could they be slowish charged with batteries for short bursts of high power, such as starting the miter saw?
Hello, do u have a project that would produce a pack that could be carried in a back pack to power corded tools like a lawn mover, a weed eater or a leaf blower
Yes. Here is the video on the battery I recommend for that: th-cam.com/video/8nn7EWmLs1k/w-d-xo.html And here is the video on the back pack build: th-cam.com/video/7kYrtXuIY-E/w-d-xo.html
hey i have a trolling motor i wanna build draws 30 amps at 12 volts whats the best way to do this and are these cells capable? is the process any harder other then just the groups of cells
For 12v applications I would suggest you use LiFePO4 cells. Group them 4 cells in series (4s) and they come out perfect for 48v. The Headway cells battery hookup sells are easy to work with because of the screw terminals. You can use my discount code "DAVIDPOZ" for 10% off, and it helps me out by tracking the affiliate program. batteryhookup.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries/products/4-headway-38120-hp-3-2v-8ah-lifepo4-lithium-batteries-25c-200a-super-cells You can parallel as many as you want to get your capacity up. So you could do a 2p4s, or 3p4s, etc.
the ryobi cells be more cost effective and powerful to just buy those? if the pack cost $6 for 20 cells then to make 200 cell pack it would cost $60 correct? thanks for the great video I love videos that are detailed like this because it saves some head ache hehe.
The Ryobi cells are lower capacity. The Ryobi cells are 1300mah. The cells I used in this build are 2200mah. Battery Hookup also has some cells that are 2600mah. My whole ammo can is 1.33kwh. If I built it with Ryobi cells it would be 0.78kwh.
@@DavidPozEnergy oh ok... you would have to add more and make a different size battery then and change a few things to make it equal but higher current power right? But since the cost of it is lower i wonder how much more would it cost and how big the over all size of the battery it would be.
1.3 KWh sounds like huge power bank but in real you getting only about 28 Amp/h battery which can be used only with very little Amp draw like 0.5 Amp or less otherwise you will end up destroying your state of art. Just open one lap top battery and learn how is build. I hope people will not follow your advice here. There is much easy way how to destroy your 18650 :) Other then that very nice job. Good luck.
There is a description box. Sometimes on a phone it is hard to find the box because it's hidden. Look for a little tiny arrow, if you click it then it expands the description box. I put lots of links in the description.
hi David awesome video... just a question can this be built to be 12 or 14 volt for a solar system in a pop up camper for boondocking? i want to build a system to avoid the lead acid setup with a greater drawdown capacity for discharging on use thanks for any help or direction on this
Yes, you can reconfigure the cells to make a 12v battery. Depending on your equipment, a 3s or 4s setup can work. Or switching to lifepo4 chemistry cells in a 4s makes a very nice 12v battery. batteryhookup.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries/products/4-headway-38120-hp-3-2v-8ah-lifepo4-lithium-batteries-25c-200a-super-cells?rfsn=3333666.ca06e9
The cells are 2200mah each, arranged 12p, so 26.4ah. The cells can discharge 3 amps each, or 36 amps for the pack. I limited this to 20 amps with my circuit breaker to keep the assembly running cool. I don't want it overheating.
Two things. First is capacity of the battery. This will determine how long you can run the fridge. This power supply will give me about 24 hours on my home fridge/freezer unit. The second, is the inverter. I did not cover inverters in this video, but you need to convert the 48v DC to 120v AC (in North America). I suggest starting with plugging in a watt meter to the back of your fridge for a week, then average the per day kwh usage. That will give you a place to start with your calculations. Something like this one: amzn.to/2WmVsbQ “As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
@@DavidPozEnergy, so this system you built will operate a refridge? just checking. Also, I would like to send something for responding to me. Where can i send it? Just a small appreciation for being a great persona on youtube.
I limited the amps to 20 with the circuit breaker. The cells can to more than that (up to 38 amps). By limiting the amps I should be limiting the heat build up. I'm still testing the pack, but at a continuous 15 amp discharge the pack did not overheat.
Dear sir I want to know how you charge the batteries how you put charge on there and how long do you keep them on charge volt capacity so you can use it for stuff thank you your friend Gilbert Kirby
I use a DC to DC Boost converter that has CC/CV. I power the boost converter with a 24 volt power supply from the wall. I would give you a link, but the exact boost converter I have is no longer available. I guess I'll have to make a video on this topic. Here is one that would work: amzn.to/2TV71FC “As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
Yes. I bounce around between projects as I get time, or need to order parts. The tower of power is still going to be hooked up. Just yesterday I replaced my buss bars with thicker copper bars.
Like most TH-camrs you start off with a handful of ackronyms then began to talk with those who already know what you know and thereby waste your time and mine. If we knew all that stuff we wouldn’t need teachers-ever! See?
Hi David, I wanted to know your take on a hybrid inverter vs using a grid tied inverter and a solar charge controller. I have a project for powering CCTV DVR and cameras totaling 16 cameras, 2 DVR, 2 4tb seagate skyhawke drives and lastly 2 Ubiquiti PoE 24port switches and 12 UAP AC pro accesspoints. Are hybrid inverters good or should I just go for a charge controller, grid tied inverter (charge the battery from both solar and grid) planning to get 2 200w monocrystaline panels and 2 100ah batteries as the load isn’t much with a 2.5kva inverter
I don't know anything about the camera gear you mentioned. Is everything running off DC, like 12vDC or 24vDC? If so then you might be able to run everything directly off a battery with no inverter involved. If that could work you would only need a charge controller.
David vc é o king do liithio ! vc deixa jehu-garcia no chinelo kkkk ,muito boa esta bateria, se eu tivesse este nivel, eu faria uma ,é que aqui no brasil tudo de energia solar, é um roubo, caro de +,mas vamos em frente com os nossos sonhos.
David, seeing you use those crimps on the main leads gave me a little cringe. I have a friend who’s house nearly burned down because someone used those things. Over the years they loosened up and burnt the wires to the point that they were melting through the box and started burning the framing. I would prefer to see you open them back up and solder the crimp. Then there will be no room for arcing.
I'm new here so forgive my ignorance. Can this battery be used in place of lithium batteries (ie Battleborn) to use in an off grid solar system on an RV?
I think Battle Born comes in 12v and 24v versions. I built this lithium battery as a 48v. But you can build a battery any size and any voltage to fit your needs. Yes, it's very popular to build your own lithium battery for off-grid solar in RVs.
No, it shouldn't be very difficult. instead of every row being another series, it would wind up being 24 cells in parallel, every two rows. You would need a 24v BMS. And probably get the 4-wide nickel fuse strips.
@@DavidPozEnergy TY so much for responding! What is the life expectancy of these batteries under moderate to frequent usage in an off grid application?
I don't have first-hand experience. Check out HBPowerwall YT channel. I linked to it in the description. I think he has been running large packs with these types of cells for 4 years.
If I want to build a similar project like this can you give me advices or support through patron? I know your time is important, that’s why I want to be a patron. Is a 48v around 60Ah with the possibility of adding more in the next month.
6, 8, 12, 24, 32, 36, 48, 64, 120 are all standard common nominal Lead-acid voltages/combinations. It all depends on the equipment that you work with. I have worked with 1000AH 8 volt batteries that are big enough that you need a fork lift or cart to move them( ~400 lbs). 4 of them together = one 32V 1000AH battery. That battery can only be moved with a forklift as it weighs in at almost 1700lbs. You can draw 45 Amps continuously for 20 hours out of them.
Sure, so long as the motor is 48v and probably less than 800 watts. These are not high-amp cells. If you had a big motor, like 1500 watts or something, you would want to use cells made for high discharge current.
My brother can't remember if I ever comment on your post I am about to embark on my first battery built. My question is can you advice me of the capacity of that battery pack?
I am building my own off grid solar system and have been watching youtude videos now for about a year, which sort of makes me an expert viewer, you and two other individuals produce some of the best video, steady camera, good explanation, and no "Ahs" every second word, thanks for your hard work trying to help us new users to solar....it is much appreciated
@@saadomar1101 If they're charged to 4v per cell and discharged to 3.1v per cell then the maximum cycles will nearly double. Charging them to 4.2v and discharging them lower than 3v is the standard. The last 0.2v is about 200mah, or lower depending on the cell's max capacity. So not much trade off to gain a lot more cycles.
Hi, been watching your channel from the UK for ages and to start with had no idea about batteries/solar but after a while of watching I now have a basic grasp of the theory..
Many thanks and hope you continue to post vlogs to us newbies😊
Glad to help. I'm new to these small cells (18650). This was my first build with them.
Being able to make your own power supply for different voltage/current levels today is more important than ever!!When you have your own electrical power at any level whenever and whereever that can be applied as quickly, safely is "SUCH a powerful tool to have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man this is awesome !! Discovered these 18650 by accident recently and for some strange reason i am following online and buying tons of gadgets, chargers, cables, multimeter, etc, etc, building a battery pack myself, i first got cells from my old Thinkpad, testing them was fun and i fell into the rabbit hole so to speak, i am autistic and this sort of thing is right up my street, always enjoyed having collections of batteries and chargers but never had a need for 18650 until now, its so addictive !! great video thanks.
I love that spot welder!
Your spot welder is the most satisfying sound I've ever heard. It should be the default sound on all computers for "your input was successful".
I have been using those modem packs for about 6 years now and have never been disappointed.
Great video. A couple of things I noticed. You mentioned that you set up the jst connectors to hook up your little gizmo to see how your batteries are doing....in reality it will only show you how each 'group' of 12 batteries, set up in parallel, are doing. It will not tell you if an individual cell is having issues. This will initially be masked by having the others cover for it, forcing them to work harder and weakening them as well. Which can lead to issues down the road. Unless you check them individually, you can only check up on the group as a whole.
The 2nd thing you mentioned is that you don't have to make all your batteries at the same time, that you can add to them as you go along. This might not be a good idea unless you can match their capacity. For the same reason as above, if the first battery you put together was in good shape, a few months later, after alot of use, it might have lost some of its capacity. If you then put a new battery together and add it to it, it will potentially be at a different (higher) capacity. This will lead to it working harder to cover for the older battery which will lead to it's losing capacity earlier. The stress could also cause the individual batteries to get out of balance and because you can't check them individually...
You ideally want to match battery amperage and capacity before pairing them.
That coil whine of the spot welder sounds so cool
Thank for sharing and the parts list\costs David. You're getting a lot better at builds...;-) Well Done.
Thanks for watching.
Great video, great build. Thank you for sharing and disclosing the sources.
I've also some bad luck with the red Sanyo sells, they are really hot when i use them and i had some old ones in the past that had leaked, no other brand that i've personally seen had done that
Betting this is super doable and easier with prismatic cells as well! Nice video Dave!
I'd love to build it with some prismatic cells.
@@DavidPozEnergy Pretty sure the prismatic cells would cost way more though. You got out pretty cheap on this one!
That's a great little project! People will be able to follow along.
Hey, on your miter saw, have you considered powering it with DC? It's probably got a "universal" motor that will run on either DC or AC. You'd need a 120 V pack, but you wouldn't need an inverter.
Keep the projects coming!
Do you know of any blogs or videos where someone has done it. I don't want to experiment with such an expensive tool.
You’d need a beefy external power switch. D.C. arcing can destroy an AC power switch in short order. (See what I did there?)
That's exactly what I use except with a IEC/UPS kettle connection,I can't guarantee that mine are water proof but it's an innie connection so water will have trouble getting in
David there is a plastic sheet called Coroplast that is like plastic cardboard. It is commonly used to make signs and you can get it for free from some gas stations when they throw their signs away. I prefer to purchase 4X8 sheets and cut it up to make my dividers and covers. I use Kaptom tape where appropriate but only use packing tape on the Coroplast because the Coroplast in not high temp so why use high temp tape. Your plastic bottle is also not high temp but the Coroplast is much easier to use. Coroplast comes in different thicknesses the 4mil is the easiest to find and is what most gas station signs are made of. I much prefer the 2mil type but you will need to go to sign store to buy it!
Brilliantly designed pack! I've would add third wire to buss bars. Do not leave these voltage monitors / ballancers unattended in the pack. From what I remembered they drow their supply only from one cell in the pack. If the pack is left for long time without charging, this cell will be drained. Keep the good work
Thank you. Yes, that's correct about the cell checkers.
that leftover nickle scrap would be great for electroplating
Very nice neat job. I love that welder you're using.
love the spot welding
that would make a savage battery for my 48v 750w ebike and id love to do a build like that,but id be nervous as hell that id mess it up
Nice build! Best practice would be to crimp and solder the connection from your bussbar to the BMS.
I don't know which is best, crimp only, or crimp and solder. But I do know that no matter which way I do it, there will be people telling me to do it the other way. LOL. When I made my video on LTO I crimped and soldered and received quite a bit of negative feedback for that.
DavidPoz Haha, I made a video with crimp and solder and received similar feedback. One of my electrical engineering profs justified the crimp and solder method stating that the solder wetting the copper prevents copper oxide from forming at the junction. Copper oxide is significantly less conducive than copper metal. Additionally the solder helps prevent the connection from wiggling loose as the crushed copper deforms over time from the pressure causing the connection to loosen up. Just my 0.02- I’ve never had trouble with crimp and solder and have seen crimp only fail many times before (mostly due to bad crimp jobs though).
Thanks for your 0.02. I like your explanation, make a lot of sense.
Great video thanks for your time ser !!!!
awesome!
Thanks Jehu. I really appreciate that coming from you.
Sure! It’s easy to teach something if the audience already knows all your ackronyms! That’s like teaching into the mirror. Only needs one person, no empathy and no thinking. Bye.
@@jayclark8271 this comment is a POS
Please do a video with those high discharge Ryobi cells! I have a bunch and wondering how capable they are
This would be a nice way too power up your RV camper. Small, and can be daisy chained in series for more amp hours. Imagine 6bof these in a camper, with solar panels on the roof, and a nice inverter. I imagine one could get several days off a bank of 6 of these.
Decent, except for the low amperage. Much of the fun of using that size battery is being able to draw hundreds of amps out of them when needed. I use only 6 of the 18650s in a portable "juicer" for my smartphone and it works well. I just used a "hodge podge" of batteries, some new, some used, I didn't care. It can charge my smartphone 3 times from 0 to 100% before it needs to be charged too.
Great video
Hi Dave, just watched this video of yours and liked it a lot. I was a little concerned when I saw you wrap that tape and then the shrink wrap around the whole bundle. I know it looked nice and neat but I was concerned about ventilation and air cooling. At the end you mentioned removing the gasket, and I assume that was what that was for, but with all the tape and wrap, there is no way you can get any air cooling. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the videos. M.
Heat dissipation is a concern for heavy loads or fast charges.
Author mentions limiting the max amps for that reason.
20A max / 12P ~ 1.6A per 14S group, should not generate too much heat from 2.2Ah rated cells.
For protection a BMS with thermal shutoff function could be used with sensors distributed within the block.
If There was ever a major failure and the fuses had to blow. I'm not sure that plastic bottle would insulate against short circuits. I just watched the video that average Joe done with his thermal cam. Showing the fuses blowing. I would love to see that test. Love your vids mate
Do you have any suggestions of something thin, non-conductive, with a higher temperature rating? I think 2-liter bottles are PET plastic, which is like 500°F. I think that's higher than the plastic in heat shrink, but I'm no engineer. There is also 2 layers of tape in the sandwich. I saw Average Joes video. It was great.
20:24 That's a massive tip!
"That's what she said"
Good project. What I would really like to see is a project building a 12V battery. I have a desire to replace the 12V house batteries in my RV and if I could build a reliable 12V battery to replace the deepcycle lead acids then that would be great. IF I could build a 12v 1.3kva battery for $200 as opposed to nearly $1000 for a battleborn then that would be a project I might dive into.
Ideally it would be a drop in replacement for lead acid and be in that save basic form factor and ideally with top post terminals so all the current wiring works. A 24v or 48v just requires too much modification to the existing systems of the RV for me to really consider going that route.
Is that spot welder really over $200? Unless I'm constantly making battery packs, that purchase would negate any saving of getting used cells. But awesome video!
Yes, the spot welder is over $200. I hope to make more builds of different types, so I'll get some use from it. But if you only have one battery then there are other ways to do it without buying the spot welder.
I thought the same about the price, so I made my own double pulse welder that provides consistent perfect welds for around $45. Check out 100A/40A Digital LCD Double Pulse Encoder Spot Welder Machine Time Control Module Board on ebay or Amazon.
Whoaaaaa water bottle reuse for isolator... good idea hahaa
did you ever test it
That would be quite the battery for my 48v BBS02 Ebike. Not really shock and vibration protected though.
Thanks for sharing David. I was wondering if you would mind giving me the best lay out and component values that I would need in order to build a 220 to 240 volt 5 kilowatt off grid solar system? Themis.
Careful - 18650(s) are addictive... I started with 96 of them and 2 years later they grew to 1,000(s) :) You may have done this but you didn't mention it, so just in case, let me suggest that one should match the ah(s) in each parallel row so they all have aproximately the same ah. For example, 12 * 2300ah cells in 1 parallel row is 27,600ah so you you want all the other parallel rows to have aprox 27,600ah total (+ / - 5'ish%). The better they are matched, the easier they will stay in balance as the battery is charged/discharged.
LOL. I can see how addicting they are. Very satisfying.
yes same story here. now I have over 4200 cells 14s300p
I can see how important this is Kenneth, I guess it matters more the more cells you have in P?
Anyway, I'm considering making my next build with those 26650 LiFePo4 for my workshop powerwall (3kwh) The problem is I can't find a charger/discharger for those that can do the Milli-ah calculation. I don't think my Xtar Dragon 4 thingy can do that chemistry, even though its a GREAT charger.
I tried the link for the spot welder you gave but I didn't get a connection. Any chance you could give another link for that welder. Thank you
i would have loved it for total out put 12volt for inverter.. cute battery
There are lots of 12v builds on TH-cam. I like to stick with 48v stuff because my inverters are 48v. Maybe if I have a unique build that needs a 12v battery I'll build one.
ok thanks
I put 12 3 LG 18650 2600MAH CELLS IN MODEM BATTERIES solder in paral and only got 2 hours of run out of an 200 watt inverter. I got the same 2 hour run time with 4 lipo 4/ 8 amp hour in saire and out the same 2 hour run time. 12 3 LG 18650 2600MAH CELLS IN MODEM is = to 4 lipo 4 in saire!
Is there like a safety fuse for overload or short - is there like a safety fuse for the batteries ?
Yes. I used a circuit breaker inside the box.
WELL DONE! (BOTH THE BUILD AND THE VIDEO). LOOKS LIKE YOU BUILT A BATTLE BORN FOR SUB $200.
Thank you. Battle born is using lifepo4 cells, so it's not quite a fair comparison, but I appreciate the compliment. As far as I know Battle Born does not have a 48v version, which would be nice.
I press along the seam of the modem pack with a flat screw driver an to unstick the cell inside I used a flat plastic
hmmmm, ok so you know i like your videos and your diligence, but... this one concerned me... you didnt fuse anything (glass fuses per P set?), no cooling, isnt temperature a concern here too ? this is not a knock down comment, im sure you know that, keep up the awesome videos, just my wonders thats all
No worries. Actually, those nickel strips I used are cut in such a way that they are fuses. So every cell is fused on each side (positive and negative). I linked to the strips in the description.
Yes, temperature can be a concern. These cells have an operating temperature up to 60°C. I'm currently doing some tests on the pack for the purpose of a follow up video. I discharged the whole pack in 2 hours, pushing it very hard, harder than it should be pushed. I recorded a maximum temperature inside the case of (think) 45°C.
If you have any suggestions to make it better, I'm open to ideas. But this is not meant to be a high amp model pack. It's meant more for smaller loads.
@@DavidPozEnergy oo I've not seen fused strips, what a good idea.
very cool
Great job bud !
My self education told me that Li-Ion cells are the way now because of their safer nature, but less density, any candle lights on this?
As some one who is visually handicapped, spot welding is beyond me.
I'm thinking about building this exact pack for powering an ebike conversion (750W nominal motor). Any concern with that? By my calculations, with the ebike contoller I'd be using, I'd be
configuring it for 20A max discharge, and with the cells I'm using (rated max discharge of 3225mAh), the 10p configuration would give me 32.25A max discharge for the pack, so I'd be well within safety limits at 20A.
Sounds like you have done your math out right. I ran it for an hour with a temperature probe in there, and a 1C discharge. The box did get pretty warm, about 100°F inside. Still within specs, but I went an put a smaller circuit breaker on there limiting it to a 0.5C max. But I'm using modem cells that are not made for high discharge. If your cells are made for it (like from power tools) they won't get as warm.
out of 50 3 LG 18650 2600MAH CELLS IN MODEM BATTERIES I got one bad cell. The drill batteries 4 bad out of 10 drill batteries.
Great odds.
forgive me for being silly but does ammo cans stop bullets fireing off in heat or very hot weather that may hurt or kill someone ?? if so would it contain and stop cell explosions and fires ?? was this the reason for the ammo can ??
Well, the ammo can would not stop a bullet. But the steel box would help contain a fire if the 18650 cells went bad. I'm not saying it's a guarantee, but I think it's a lot safer.
@@DavidPozEnergy thank you so much sir forget about the bullets it was just a thought as in if they stop them cracking off on there own then it makes total sence but that was the idea and if thease things get dangerous an short sadly there is no stopping them but id rather have this than plastic regards
Nice work! I wish they made cheap battery holders for 21700s. The ones I found are 5 times the cost of them 18650 holders. I made my own due to cost. Almost done with my 200ah 21700 battery for my new solar generator. I don't have the balls to put it on TH-cam tho.
I could email ya the pics and see if you have better ideas than me. Would be cool to have your input.
Sounds like a great project. I'd love to see pictures. Facebook is the easiest way to get a hold of me. facebook.com/DavidPozEnergy/
have you looked at incorporating super caps into builds? could they be slowish charged with batteries for short bursts of high power, such as starting the miter saw?
I don't know enough about sizing capacitors to pick the right ones for a build.
@@DavidPozEnergy neither do i, i just watched an interesting video: search: fully charged supercapacitor
Hello, do u have a project that would produce a pack that could be carried in a back pack to power corded tools like a lawn mover, a weed eater or a leaf blower
Yes. Here is the video on the battery I recommend for that: th-cam.com/video/8nn7EWmLs1k/w-d-xo.html And here is the video on the back pack build: th-cam.com/video/7kYrtXuIY-E/w-d-xo.html
hey i have a trolling motor i wanna build draws 30 amps at 12 volts whats the best way to do this and are these cells capable? is the process any harder other then just the groups of cells
For 12v applications I would suggest you use LiFePO4 cells. Group them 4 cells in series (4s) and they come out perfect for 48v. The Headway cells battery hookup sells are easy to work with because of the screw terminals. You can use my discount code "DAVIDPOZ" for 10% off, and it helps me out by tracking the affiliate program. batteryhookup.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries/products/4-headway-38120-hp-3-2v-8ah-lifepo4-lithium-batteries-25c-200a-super-cells You can parallel as many as you want to get your capacity up. So you could do a 2p4s, or 3p4s, etc.
What the?? What was that little welding tool
That is called a K-weld. sold by 18650'ed. 18650shrinkandcellholders.com/kweld/
That looks like one of the commercial ones
the ryobi cells be more cost effective and powerful to just buy those? if the pack cost $6 for 20 cells then to make 200 cell pack it would cost $60 correct? thanks for the great video I love videos that are detailed like this because it saves some head ache hehe.
The Ryobi cells are lower capacity. The Ryobi cells are 1300mah. The cells I used in this build are 2200mah. Battery Hookup also has some cells that are 2600mah. My whole ammo can is 1.33kwh. If I built it with Ryobi cells it would be 0.78kwh.
@@DavidPozEnergy oh ok... you would have to add more and make a different size battery then and change a few things to make it equal but higher current power right? But since the cost of it is lower i wonder how much more would it cost and how big the over all size of the battery it would be.
Cool build! Love the ammo can, but I didn't see it on Battery Hookup's site. Would you be able to add a direct link? Thanks.
Hi Dan, They must be backed up, I know they were trying to get it up on the site this week. I looked and did not see it.
@@DavidPozEnergy I'll keep checking back. Thanks
Hello, can I load this selfmade battery with an manual 20 Watt handgenerator?
you'll be there a while
Great 💯❤️❤️❤️👌👍👍👍
Bro sell it online
1.3 KWh sounds like huge power bank but in real you getting only about 28 Amp/h battery which can be used only with very little Amp draw like 0.5 Amp or less otherwise you will end up destroying your state of art. Just open one lap top battery and learn how is build.
I hope people will not follow your advice here. There is much easy way how to destroy your 18650 :) Other then that very nice job. Good luck.
Cool welding thing!
Not a bad idea
What are you using to power the spot welder? 120V?
I'm using a 12v lithium battery to power the spot welder.
Where can I get accessories to make a battery pack, I got some battery already
Depends on what you need. I buy a lot from Amazon.
Oh,David I got some 18650 lithium cells,I want to make a 24 volts battery pack
David I looked for the link but I am not sure where down below is LOL Help
There is a description box. Sometimes on a phone it is hard to find the box because it's hidden. Look for a little tiny arrow, if you click it then it expands the description box. I put lots of links in the description.
hi David awesome video... just a question can this be built to be 12 or 14 volt for a solar system in a pop up camper for boondocking? i want to build a system to avoid the lead acid setup with a greater drawdown capacity for discharging on use thanks for any help or direction on this
Yes, you can reconfigure the cells to make a 12v battery. Depending on your equipment, a 3s or 4s setup can work. Or switching to lifepo4 chemistry cells in a 4s makes a very nice 12v battery. batteryhookup.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries/products/4-headway-38120-hp-3-2v-8ah-lifepo4-lithium-batteries-25c-200a-super-cells?rfsn=3333666.ca06e9
Nice work! How many amps can you pull from this safely? And the amp hour rating? How much does it weigh? I want to build one!
The cells are 2200mah each, arranged 12p, so 26.4ah. The cells can discharge 3 amps each, or 36 amps for the pack. I limited this to 20 amps with my circuit breaker to keep the assembly running cool. I don't want it overheating.
I have a bicycle that 72 V I could use two of those one for each side. Would you be interested in building these?
No thank you, I'm not set up for building batteries for sale.
If I wanted to run a full size refridge, what should I focus on?
Two things. First is capacity of the battery. This will determine how long you can run the fridge. This power supply will give me about 24 hours on my home fridge/freezer unit. The second, is the inverter. I did not cover inverters in this video, but you need to convert the 48v DC to 120v AC (in North America). I suggest starting with plugging in a watt meter to the back of your fridge for a week, then average the per day kwh usage. That will give you a place to start with your calculations. Something like this one: amzn.to/2WmVsbQ “As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
@@DavidPozEnergy, so this system you built will operate a refridge? just checking. Also, I would like to send something for responding to me. Where can i send it? Just a small appreciation for being a great persona on youtube.
We can chat through facebook messenger at facebook.com/DavidPozEnergy/
What about thermo protection ?
I limited the amps to 20 with the circuit breaker. The cells can to more than that (up to 38 amps). By limiting the amps I should be limiting the heat build up. I'm still testing the pack, but at a continuous 15 amp discharge the pack did not overheat.
Dear sir I want to know how you charge the batteries how you put charge on there and how long do you keep them on charge volt capacity so you can use it for stuff thank you your friend Gilbert Kirby
I use a DC to DC Boost converter that has CC/CV. I power the boost converter with a 24 volt power supply from the wall. I would give you a link, but the exact boost converter I have is no longer available. I guess I'll have to make a video on this topic.
Here is one that would work: amzn.to/2TV71FC
“As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
Is the tower of power going to be used still? You've still got 24 kWh in it.
Yes. I bounce around between projects as I get time, or need to order parts. The tower of power is still going to be hooked up. Just yesterday I replaced my buss bars with thicker copper bars.
my frind how are you? how to get a lot off battery ?
Lækkert super grundig❤️❤️❤️🏁🇩🇰
What do you use to charge this battery?
I use solar panels. But you could use a CC/CV charger too.
Like most TH-camrs you start off with a handful of ackronyms then began to talk with those who already know what you know and thereby waste your time and mine. If we knew all that stuff we wouldn’t need teachers-ever! See?
Hi David, I wanted to know your take on a hybrid inverter vs using a grid tied inverter and a solar charge controller. I have a project for powering CCTV DVR and cameras totaling 16 cameras, 2 DVR, 2 4tb seagate skyhawke drives and lastly 2 Ubiquiti PoE 24port switches and 12 UAP AC pro accesspoints. Are hybrid inverters good or should I just go for a charge controller, grid tied inverter (charge the battery from both solar and grid) planning to get 2 200w monocrystaline panels and 2 100ah batteries as the load isn’t much with a 2.5kva inverter
I don't know anything about the camera gear you mentioned. Is everything running off DC, like 12vDC or 24vDC? If so then you might be able to run everything directly off a battery with no inverter involved. If that could work you would only need a charge controller.
Hi, How many amps is ti? Regards
It's limited to 20 amps, because that is the size of the circuit breaker I installed. Thanks for watching.
David vc é o king do liithio ! vc deixa jehu-garcia no chinelo kkkk ,muito boa esta bateria, se eu tivesse este nivel, eu faria uma ,é que aqui no brasil tudo de energia solar, é um roubo, caro de +,mas vamos em frente com os nossos sonhos.
isn't 14s 52volts not 48??
David, seeing you use those crimps on the main leads gave me a little cringe. I have a friend who’s house nearly burned down because someone used those things. Over the years they loosened up and burnt the wires to the point that they were melting through the box and started burning the framing. I would prefer to see you open them back up and solder the crimp. Then there will be no room for arcing.
I'm new here so forgive my ignorance.
Can this battery be used in place of lithium batteries (ie Battleborn) to use in an off grid solar system on an RV?
I think Battle Born comes in 12v and 24v versions. I built this lithium battery as a 48v. But you can build a battery any size and any voltage to fit your needs. Yes, it's very popular to build your own lithium battery for off-grid solar in RVs.
@@DavidPozEnergy TY David!
Would altering your 48 volt build to a 24v be very difficult? Im thinking it shouldn't?
No, it shouldn't be very difficult. instead of every row being another series, it would wind up being 24 cells in parallel, every two rows. You would need a 24v BMS. And probably get the 4-wide nickel fuse strips.
@@DavidPozEnergy TY so much for responding! What is the life expectancy of these batteries under moderate to frequent usage in an off grid application?
I don't have first-hand experience. Check out HBPowerwall YT channel. I linked to it in the description. I think he has been running large packs with these types of cells for 4 years.
If I want to build a similar project like this can you give me advices or support through patron? I know your time is important, that’s why I want to be a patron.
Is a 48v around 60Ah with the possibility of adding more in the next month.
I'm happy to help if you have a question here or there, but I can't do a lot. I'm also on Facebook as a way to get in touch with me.
You still use this?
Sometimes. I don't use it for my house. I've attached a large LED to it and use it for portable lighting.
Why net set it up for a common voltage 12, 24, 110, etc??
My equipment is 48v nominal.
6, 8, 12, 24, 32, 36, 48, 64, 120 are all standard common nominal Lead-acid voltages/combinations. It all depends on the equipment that you work with. I have worked with 1000AH 8 volt batteries that are big enough that you need a fork lift or cart to move them( ~400 lbs). 4 of them together = one 32V 1000AH battery. That battery can only be moved with a forklift as it weighs in at almost 1700lbs. You can draw 45 Amps continuously for 20 hours out of them.
Did you see my video on opening the packs.
No, but I'll check it out.
The one with you panning across the cells on your workbench?
O, nope. I found it. Looking good. Using the pair of channel locks. Very nice.
for what use?
I'll be using this as part of my larger solar off grid system. Thanks for watching.
Could you power a electric bike with this pack
Sure, so long as the motor is 48v and probably less than 800 watts. These are not high-amp cells. If you had a big motor, like 1500 watts or something, you would want to use cells made for high discharge current.
14S or 14 batteries in series makes a 52V battery (approx) 13 cells make a 48V battery !!
Yes you are right. But I'm using it with my 48 volt inverter.
Like & Subscribed..... :D
Thanks.
My brother can't remember if I ever comment on your post I am about to embark on my first battery built. My question is can you advice me of the capacity of that battery pack?
Nice what would you charge to make some backs?
Great video, great build. Thank you for sharing and disclosing the sources.
David wearing safety glasses. Norm Abram approves.
Very cool
I am building my own off grid solar system and have been watching youtude videos now for about a year, which sort of makes me an expert viewer, you and two other individuals produce some of the best video, steady camera, good explanation, and no "Ahs" every second word, thanks for your hard work trying to help us new users to solar....it is much appreciated
I am wondering if packs like these can be cycled everyday to some percentage (not full) or if they are for backup purposes only,
@@saadomar1101 If they're charged to 4v per cell and discharged to 3.1v per cell then the maximum cycles will nearly double. Charging them to 4.2v and discharging them lower than 3v is the standard. The last 0.2v is about 200mah, or lower depending on the cell's max capacity. So not much trade off to gain a lot more cycles.
In my experience the red ones are always the ones that give me problems so I agree with your strategy of not using them if possible.
There's cheaper options for brand new all one brand cells instead of salvaging just gotta know where to look
Pretty clean build. I guess I would hard mount that breaker to the lid of side of the box but that is just me.