How do SIM Cards work? - SIMtrace

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
  • In this video we use SIMtrace to intercept the communication between the phone and SIM card to understand how that works. This is part 1 in a series introducing mobile security.
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    #MobileSecurity

ความคิดเห็น • 1.4K

  • @LiveOverflow
    @LiveOverflow  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1356

    Small corrections:
    The SIM card does not typically store a private key. It has a secret key that is shared with your mobile operator. And that secret is used to derive session keys that will then be used in the actual encrypted communication.

    • @gregorykhvatsky7668
      @gregorykhvatsky7668 6 ปีที่แล้ว +79

      LiveOverflow also in the early 2000 some SIM cards used some form of weak crypto which allowed to actually extract the key from the card with cryptanalysis. This allowed for multi-sim cards that allowed you to store multiple keys (multiple virtual SIM’s) of one card and then switch between them on the fly. It was some good stuff, but then they upgraded the crypto and the whole thing disappeared.

    • @RAGHAVENDRASINGH17
      @RAGHAVENDRASINGH17 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nice video

    • @GottZ
      @GottZ 6 ปีที่แล้ว +48

      fun fact: the sim can receive new applications over the air. there are certain security vulnerabilities in that area that have not been fixed physically. you need to MITM the GSM network though to make some fun things.

    • @tjeulink
      @tjeulink 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      +Jan-Stefan Janetzky could you point to an paper or article or something detailing this? isn't doing an MITM on the GSM network trivial or is that only for mobile internet access?

    • @parv8131
      @parv8131 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      So whats difference in Esim?

  • @XDRosenheim
    @XDRosenheim 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1607

    So that's why Java is used on 3 billion devices :P
    Edit: Please stop. It was a cheap joke, don't overthink it.

    • @michalnemecek3575
      @michalnemecek3575 6 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      yup

    • @rkan2
      @rkan2 6 ปีที่แล้ว +43

      The real number would be >15 billion devices once you sum up all mobile phone for example… Unless you meant “daily use”, when even then it is probably more, since NA and Europe alone have 1 billion users.
      “The first cell phone was produced by Motorola. Since then there have been produced around 17.37 billion mobile phones.” Most of these would’ve supported java in some shape or form.. Probably only the first few 100 million at the 80s early 90s didn’t do java..

    • @SianaGearz
      @SianaGearz 6 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      I wonder if not all SIM cards run Java. The phone doesn't have to know whether it runs Java or not since it only communicates data back and forth, it never needs to upload Java bytecode to the SIM card.

    • @rkan2
      @rkan2 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Siana Gearz I think the operator decides whether they want to implement a java-application or not. Still, nearly all phones produced have had some sort of support for Java on them..

    • @YO3HJV
      @YO3HJV 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      ... to be accessible to some power-users.

  • @SQDImon
    @SQDImon 6 ปีที่แล้ว +902

    Man on english talking about german sim card on russian nokia phone maded in finland O_o

    • @LiveOverflow
      @LiveOverflow  6 ปีที่แล้ว +132

      And where are you watching this?

    • @jackalpha9670
      @jackalpha9670 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Dimon Sq That came to my mind as well.

    • @goodtoshi
      @goodtoshi 6 ปีที่แล้ว +86

      Disigned in Finland but made in India, you can see the label at 4:10

    • @Architector_4
      @Architector_4 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      +Amazon Echo
      Well, this phone's language is set to Russian.

    • @Architector_4
      @Architector_4 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      +Amazon Echo
      True. I'm not sure why you are saying that Nokia isn't russian. I think it's obvious that by "russian nokia phone" they meant "nokia phone with its language set on russian".

  • @Sooyush
    @Sooyush 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video man! Keep the playlist updated please

  • @CloroxBleach0
    @CloroxBleach0 ปีที่แล้ว

    Lovely video! I wanted to ask, does the sim app on android also run from the sim card?

  • @abbasbvohra
    @abbasbvohra ปีที่แล้ว

    awesome video.

  • @cby3145
    @cby3145 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    im so glad im subed to you

  • @francislydz4234
    @francislydz4234 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    can you provide a book that you took the course about telecom sec? i get fascinated about it

  • @MadushanNishantha
    @MadushanNishantha 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've been looking for an osmocom capable phone for months now :/ There were tons of phones like that around when I was a kid. Now I can't find one even if I paid good money here. I'm just hoping the baseband of librem-5 will be reverse engineered enough to put osmocom in it.

  • @FrankWu
    @FrankWu 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dear LiveOverFlow My question is how large Telco mobile phone like Vodafone and A&TT company impose a sim locking on mobile Phone or 4G Modem ? Which only accept one telco provider sim card . Why USA is very popular for Telco company to sim locking phone regardless if sold outright or on a plan. ? Is fully legal to unlock sim on your mobile phone ?

  • @nap8187
    @nap8187 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1346

    I want to run the original DOOM on the simcard.

    • @GameMaker3_5
      @GameMaker3_5 6 ปีที่แล้ว +69

      You mean store the original game data on one? non-possible. Sims only have around 8 bytes on the card

    • @nap8187
      @nap8187 6 ปีที่แล้ว +177

      GameMaker 3_5 don't crush my dreams

    • @AtmelKiller
      @AtmelKiller 6 ปีที่แล้ว +198

      Wrong. SIM cards can have up to 256KB of memory space.

    • @bigbadwolf3712
      @bigbadwolf3712 6 ปีที่แล้ว +55

      that means we can actually produce smart cards as a VERY secure way of saving data? very nice

    • @GameMaker3_5
      @GameMaker3_5 6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@AtmelKiller thank 4 correction but I don't think the original doom (or even chex quest) could be stored on a SIM even without storing saves on the card

  • @LifeofBoris
    @LifeofBoris 6 ปีที่แล้ว +346

    Thats why I started learning Java in the first place..

    • @askart8576
      @askart8576 6 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      Forget Java. Spill some *vodka* into cup in _Java logo_ ...

    • @Koubles
      @Koubles 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Wow! I didn’t know you were taking up Java Boris. Good luck on that!!

    • @szymonzak6681
      @szymonzak6681 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      ayy big boris?

    • @NanoSpicer
      @NanoSpicer ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Is that neighbor Vadim?

    • @aadityadadhich9613
      @aadityadadhich9613 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      oopa boris {in slavic accent}

  • @ForbiddenUser403
    @ForbiddenUser403 5 ปีที่แล้ว +139

    You forgot about an additional computer within the cell phones. You have the main CPU which runs the OS and User IO, You have the sim card, and you've also got the baseband processor which is what is directly communicating with the sim. The main CPU of the phone is not what's actually communicating with the sim card. The phone CPU uses the baseband as it's gateway to the wireless network after the baseband has already verified credentials and established a connection to the network.

    • @genesis1914
      @genesis1914 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      on iPhones you also have the cryptex and SEP, along with the main SoC and BB.

    • @rajatmond
      @rajatmond 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You usually have storage on your phone. All bulk storages have a separate cpu responsible for actually controlling the storage system.

    • @TheRailroad99
      @TheRailroad99 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Baseband almost always is a dedicated core, but I think many SoCs include it on-die.
      Bluetooth/WiFi usually also have their own "CPUs". They are usually called Radio schedulers. Their timings are very important so they need to run bare-metal without an OS scheduler.
      Many of today's smart sensor chips also include tiny 8-bit or even 32 bit ARM (e.g. Cortex M0) processor cores, also the main CPU usually has an on-die secure enclave core.
      They all communicate with the main CPU via SPI,I2C, UART or even DMA access.

  • @CrazyDanishHacker
    @CrazyDanishHacker 6 ปีที่แล้ว +717

    Check out the Defcon presentation: "The Secret Life of SIM Cards", and the Black Hat presentations:
    "Cloning 3G/4G SIM Cards With A PC And An Oscilloscope: Lessons Learned In Physical Security" &
    "Rooting SIM Cards".

    • @wowimoldaf
      @wowimoldaf 6 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Whoa, Thats cool as fuck.

    • @tunghoang8911
      @tunghoang8911 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks.....

    • @sven33r
      @sven33r 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I can recommend that "secret life of sim cards", just watched it recently.

    • @rgilles42
      @rgilles42 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I immediately thought about one of these videos I had seen a few months ago but couldn't remember where it came from... Thank you so much !

    • @mido3ds
      @mido3ds 6 ปีที่แล้ว +70

      Videos in order
      th-cam.com/video/31D94QOo2gY/w-d-xo.html
      th-cam.com/video/qKCQ1KL9GEc/w-d-xo.html
      th-cam.com/video/scArc93XXWw/w-d-xo.html

  • @stumbling
    @stumbling 5 ปีที่แล้ว +136

    Smart cards have a clock speed of 13.5MHz and up to 80kB EEPROM. For comparison, the Commodore 64 had a 1MHz CPU and 20kB ROM. It would be so cool to make an 8 bit PC with one of these cards if possible.

    • @CoolKoon
      @CoolKoon 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      I suppose you could, but these smartcards have no GPU in them...

    • @309electronics5
      @309electronics5 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      ​@@CoolKoonmaybe a terminal based pc?!

    • @norbert.kiszka
      @norbert.kiszka ปีที่แล้ว +10

      ​@@CoolKoonevery CPU can work as GPU and GPU can be connected externally.

    • @CoolKoon
      @CoolKoon ปีที่แล้ว

      @@309electronics5 Heh, good luck trying to change the firmware in it (there's a 99.99% chance that you can't).

    • @CoolKoon
      @CoolKoon ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@norbert.kiszka "every CPU can work as GPU" - That's simply not true. CPUs in general are not able to generate a signal necessary for driving a display, obviously the C64 mentioned above has used a dedicated chip for that too. All it can do is to generate the picture stream that would be sent to said graphic chip.
      And the second part of your comment ("GPU can be connected externally") is even bigger nonsense, unless you have a VERY fast interconnect (in embedded electronics you usually don't) you CANNOT. That's why oftentimes they just slap a GPU next to a GPU and call it a SoC.

  • @FennecTECH
    @FennecTECH 5 ปีที่แล้ว +66

    Most phones have 4 or 5 or more computers. There is the SOC that runs android. The Bluetooth adapter. The wireless modem. The WiFi radio. The secure element and the baseband. And even the biometric sensor (thumbprint / faceid) All with independent processors. There are probably others too. Broadcom WiFi adapters generally have a decently powerful Linux system on them with megabytes of free ram and storage. PCs can have dozens!

    • @ethanchow9170
      @ethanchow9170 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There's microcontrollers dedicated to haptic feedback and motion data as well and don't forget the USB c multiplexer

    • @alakis
      @alakis 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      And even many of those systems consist of multiple "independent" processing units. For example, a cellular modem may have up to 5 processors for various tasks (software radio, programmable filters etc.).

  • @Sparkette
    @Sparkette 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    So you're saying a SIM card can run Minecraft?

    • @Karim-uknwmg702
      @Karim-uknwmg702 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      something like super mario bros 😊

  • @TaohRihze
    @TaohRihze 6 ปีที่แล้ว +371

    This video scares me. I can only start guessing what kind of force was needed to crack the display on that Nokia.

    • @fuskaren
      @fuskaren 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Thats not a nokia 3310

    • @theapexsurvivor9538
      @theapexsurvivor9538 6 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      I've broken a 3310 by just keeping it in my pocket with my house keys...
      I'm convinced that I have some kind of curse: any time I own an electronic device that isn't broken in some way it finds some way to remedy the situation...

    • @idowhatiwantdowhatisaygoog2361
      @idowhatiwantdowhatisaygoog2361 6 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      It required over 20 years of brute force but we finally cracked it

    • @jocerv43
      @jocerv43 6 ปีที่แล้ว +50

      Probably dropped another Nokia on it..

    • @itzbenz941
      @itzbenz941 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Use nokia for brick

  • @kirdow
    @kirdow 6 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    Can you please promise to set up a Patreon as a christmas present for us all and you? Looking forward to this series, and to support you on Patreon. And as always, love the work you do, keep it up

  • @Please-be-patient-Im-autistic
    @Please-be-patient-Im-autistic ปีที่แล้ว +171

    fun fact: The original SIM-card is actually the same size as the credit card. What most people call a "normal SIM" card is officially called MINI-SIM.

    • @genesis1914
      @genesis1914 ปีที่แล้ว

      some carriers/sub-carries like VOXI issue SIM cards in the standard credit card size, with cutouts and small plastic tabs to every size under that, so you could "snap" out the size you need. (www.cordbusters.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/voxi-sim-card.jpg)

    • @picoplanetdev
      @picoplanetdev ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Generally most phones use Nano-SIM today.

    • @nixulescu9399
      @nixulescu9399 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      wow, now I finally know why the 'normal' was called 'mini' lol, never given it too much thought but now it makes sense.

    • @dictatoribenevolo8394
      @dictatoribenevolo8394 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      micro and Nano now both exist as well..

    • @whamer100
      @whamer100 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      atomic sim when

  • @ZuriPOL
    @ZuriPOL 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The fact that Java runs on a sim card blows my mind

  • @misaalanshori
    @misaalanshori 6 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    I always thought that SIM cards are just something that stores the unique subscriber ID and that the menu is processed from some server somewhere

  • @AntonHelm
    @AntonHelm 6 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    I came across your channel randomly like a few months ago and stayed since. You videos are awesome, in quality and content. Keep it up and can’t wait for the new videos to pop up....Reached “Game of Thrones” status for me

  • @angelosediego4658
    @angelosediego4658 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    so if my teachers says "give an example of a computer" can i answer it with "a simcard"? just curious ✌️😅

  • @FengXingFengXing
    @FengXingFengXing 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Probably can emulate SIM card use software. No security for verify cell tower is real tower of fake tower?

    • @berni8k
      @berni8k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yep you can emulate a SIM card in software. But the cell tower will only accept you on the network is you prove you have the correct secret key by encrypting things correctly, this key is very difficult to extract from the SIM card.

  • @andreslb151
    @andreslb151 6 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Awesome, just 2 questions:
    1) If SIM cards are computers, can you make it to do any other thing you want?
    2) Can you make your own Java Card apps for any SIM card? What would we need?

    • @fixeria
      @fixeria 6 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      1) Depends on the access level you have, see VVV
      2) Yes, you can write and compile them, but for commercial SIM-cards you need to know the secret keys to install your own apps :/ Please see "Hello World": git.osmocom.org/sim/hello-stk/tree/src/org/toorcamp/HelloSTK/HelloSTK.java

    • @cocobos
      @cocobos 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      It actually not a computer, it still need it's host computer to execute the commands

    • @uzor123
      @uzor123 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      In india, people have used this sim gui-api to make games. People there have actually produces games on the sim card using an api meant for debugging. The distribute games that are stored on sim-cards

    • @gerhardvandeventer8636
      @gerhardvandeventer8636 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Also the SIM must have a JavaCard Virtual Machine(JCVM) and JavaCard runtime environment(JCRE) loaded.

    • @paulfontaine7819
      @paulfontaine7819 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      SIM cards use the Global Platform standard for managing the apps.

  • @raz0229
    @raz0229 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    02:37 _YES! Now I believe people are gonna make videos about overclocking your SIM cards and playing high end games on 'em!_

  • @theonewhobullies
    @theonewhobullies ปีที่แล้ว +13

    What a great explanation. Thanks a lot for presenting it so succinctly.

  • @threeMetreJim
    @threeMetreJim 5 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Wow, I did this back in the late 90's using a serial port and a simple circuit. Watching a SIM update is very interesting. Also used for the TV viewing cards, which is how I got interested in it in the first place.

  • @balika011
    @balika011 6 ปีที่แล้ว +69

    A small clarification: The phones main CPU doesn't talk to the Sim, but the baseband does it. Also you can trace the apdu commands using a uart. You don't need any special hardware.

    • @0x6d696368
      @0x6d696368 6 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Do you have more information about tracing the APDU commands using a UART?
      As far as I know was the SIMTrace build by Osmocom specifically because you can't passively sniff ISO7816 communication (at least not reliably and according to the specs) unless your UART can work in ISO7816-mode.
      But would be nice if we could passively sniff ISO7816 without special hardware. So please share more information about how to "trace the apdu commands using a uart". Thanks!

    • @gyroninjamodder
      @gyroninjamodder 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Well, nowadays they are on the same SoC so not entirely wrong

    • @berni8k
      @berni8k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Yeah the radio baseband CPU is what talks to the SIM and the cell network. I remeber back in the days of Windows CE phones you sometimes had to make sure you had the correct firmware in the baseband CPU when upgrading OS or it might not be able to connect to the cell network, even seen error messages saying that the radio is not responding when things went wrong with it.
      But you could take this even further. A lot of otherwise dumb components have hidden CPUs in them, technically making them computers too. A lot of other radios have dedicated CPUs for them like WiFi, bluetooth or GPS. The SD memory card is also hiding a CPU inside as a memory controller and so are eMMC flash chips often used for onboard flash storage. But it does not end there, a lot of chips can act autonomously so that they only bother the main application CPU when needed, for example there is a tiny CPU in the touchscreen controller chip that sits on the glass panel, it scans the matrix of conductors and does math to decide when a touch is detected, calculates the center coordinates and then sends that to the main CPU with an interrupt. So the actual number of computers in a modern phone is probably closer to 10.
      Some of these can be hacked to carry a virus such as an SD card, but hacking a touchscreen controller is probably not a viable thing as the chip is very underpowered and runs its code from a factory ROM with not even the capability to execute code from RAM.

    • @gyroninjamodder
      @gyroninjamodder 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      berni8k You are confusing CPUs and microprocessors.

    • @berni8k
      @berni8k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @gyroninja CPUs are the main building block of a microprocessor, everything else in a microprocessor is just there to help the CPU run, like provide it memory access, clocks, power etc.
      I think "something containing a CPU" can be reasonably called a computer. Just that some CPUs are really under powered and limited. Ones that run the digital timer on a microwave or play a melody in a greeting card. Really slow 8bit computers that have a total of a few kilobytes of memory, but provided you changed there program they could still do anything else(Within there under powered limitations naturally).

  • @10e999
    @10e999 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    > "Most of us know how the internet works"
    Personally, I would be interested to watch a video on wireshark and packets!

  • @SunTzu_0
    @SunTzu_0 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    finally a video that i can explain my dumbass friend why breaking some gold parts of his simcard wont give him free calls

  • @aaronramsden1657
    @aaronramsden1657 6 ปีที่แล้ว +76

    So cool, I'm getting bored of learning to code lol, the hardware stuff is so mysterious and cool to learn about

    • @robbenfan1792
      @robbenfan1792 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Aaron Ramsden IDK what path to choose

    • @aaronramsden1657
      @aaronramsden1657 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      RobbenFan Python is what I'm learning at the moment, it's pretty fun, but I'm not sure how to get into hardware stuff yet

    • @TheDragShot
      @TheDragShot 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      *+Aaron Ramsden* then you're wasting your time. If you want to go low level, proceed with C/C++, and if you want to decent further onto the bare metal try assembler, but only once you got the hang of C.

    • @Koubles
      @Koubles 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      TheDragShot I mean, In my opinion. Python is not bad to learn to start off with. Besides, diving headfirst into low level languages and machine code is obviously very daunting on someone who is just starting out, like me.

    • @aaronramsden1657
      @aaronramsden1657 6 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      TheDragShot noted,
      But it's never a "waste of time" learning something you're interested in

  • @mikee.
    @mikee. 6 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    Nice! Looking forward to the follow-up videos!

  • @ori61511
    @ori61511 6 ปีที่แล้ว +182

    its funny how we research things that humans made... i mean, why didnt they just tell you the things that you just discovered, would save some time lol

    • @dennohpeter
      @dennohpeter 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      hahaha

    • @dennohpeter
      @dennohpeter 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      those guys made these stuffs where did they go

    • @GRBtutorials
      @GRBtutorials 6 ปีที่แล้ว +65

      You're describing open source...

    • @ori61511
      @ori61511 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      basically yes but most of the things are not

    • @bjordsvennson2726
      @bjordsvennson2726 6 ปีที่แล้ว +54

      Because the less people know about the security mechanisms, the more secure they are.

  • @pauldotdll3276
    @pauldotdll3276 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    This was explained really well! I've always been interested in this, and glad I found the video. A lot of times, the video's are explained at such level where it makes no sense but this makes total sense to me.

  • @ElonMusk-FanZone
    @ElonMusk-FanZone 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    You are awesome! Don’t stop!

  • @GRBtutorials
    @GRBtutorials 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Well, theoretically you could decap the IC and examine it with a microscope to get the private key, but when you're finished, the owner has most likely already changed their SIM or credit card...

    • @SianaGearz
      @SianaGearz 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I don't think so. Flash and EEPROM are usually capacitive, storing data as electrical charge on the gate of a MOSFET. But you can't see electrons with a microscope!
      You can read Mask ROM with a microscope.

    • @berni8k
      @berni8k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      You can't read flash memory using a microscope.
      But what they do instead is poke the bare die with microprobes while the chip is running so that they can look at the data bus of the internal CPU while its reading the key from memory. Obviously this is very difficult do to so its not practical, but people do this a lot to get the keys for satellite TV out of cards. Once they have the key they can make as many clones as they want and sell them cheap to people who want to watch the good channels.

    • @gerhardvandeventer8636
      @gerhardvandeventer8636 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      High End smart cards, like those used in chip based debit or credit cards, actually has protection mechanisms against probing attacks. It can, for example, detect when the NVM is breached and will then stop executing code - a security reset will be triggered.

    • @berni8k
      @berni8k 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Gerhard van Deventer
      Actually credit cards use the least secure smartcard chips.
      This might seam counter intuitive at first since there is actual money on the line here, but for the criminals to do this they need to physically steal your card, at that point they might as well just use the stolen card rather than make a copy, besides once you can't find your card for a few days you will report the lost card to the bank so that they deactivate it and make it useless in an instant. As a result these cards are secure enough that you can't simply make a copy in a few minutes, but don't have the more advanced security features because nobody would bother to try that hard.
      However smartcards used for satelite and cable TV don't have two way communication back to a server so they can't remotely detect suspicious behavior and block the card. This allows someone to hack a card, make 1000s of copies and sell them for profit to people who want to watch the fancy channels on the cheap. This makes a hacked satelite TV smartcard much more valuable than a hacked credit card. As a result the people who buy the card from the manufacturer are willing to pay extra for a more secure smartcard model and these cards have such advanced security methods like hard to etch trough layers, snaking patterns to detect intrusion, hiding important signals on deeper layers etc.

    • @gerhardvandeventer8636
      @gerhardvandeventer8636 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @berni8k
      This isn't true. I actually develop software for SIMs and debit cards. The security requirements for debit cards are very high. To get certification from MasterCard, for instance, your card has to hold up to all sorts of penetration testing, such as probing attacks or deferential power analysis. You are right in that its easy to block your card if its stolen. The problem is that if some one can obtain the keys necessary to do authentication and to generate or verify certificates that is used during a transaction. These keys aren't unique per chip, just as for satellite or cable TV. So yes these cards must be super secure. SIM cards on the other hand typically uses way less secure chips.

  • @dolphhandcreme
    @dolphhandcreme 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    A modern smartphone actually has even more CPUs inside, for example the baseband modem cpu, several microcontrollers, one cpu in the wifi module etc.

  • @DavidBrown-cz8lj
    @DavidBrown-cz8lj 6 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Очень познавательно! Спасибо вам)

  • @Araitik
    @Araitik 6 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    Your videos are incredible. You maintain an insanely high level of quality through each and every video. When this video ended, I said "already ?" out loud, couldn't believe I didn't see the 11 minutes pass. Simply amazing !

  • @las10plagas
    @las10plagas ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I use a simcard, that's over *20 years* old, for my modern smartphone. for my first smartphone, I had to cut my card down, leaving some plastic around the metal thing, in order for it to fit.
    for my current phone, I had to cut it down even more. I actually had to cut *INTO the metal!*
    and it works without a flaw! how!?
    I'm afraid of taking it out of my phone, because it might never work again 😀

  • @shintsu01
    @shintsu01 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    This is an interesting subject looking forward for the rest of the series :)

  • @tomservo5007
    @tomservo5007 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's crazy how 'black box' the SIM card compute is. Just another backdoor for the government. Just like Intel's IME 'computer' inside ever Intel CPU except for government computers.

  • @Phoenix1337
    @Phoenix1337 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I have seen some defcon videos about this. i believe the sim would be classified more as a microcontroller than a computer.this something that interested me for a while however

  • @thecompanioncube4211
    @thecompanioncube4211 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    7:48 Holy shit.... I did that to my dad's old nokia phone in my childhood. Entered wrong security PIN 3 times and PUK code 10 times and the SIM was completely unusable after that. After a prompt beating of my behinds, he had to go and replace the SIM card

  • @AfonsodelCB
    @AfonsodelCB 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    well... I've been wanting to get into cybersecurity for at least 2 years now. stumbling across your channel via a recommendation of this video showed me CTF, which finally gave me a tangible goal. I will now start my cybersecurity journey. thanks for the directions :p

  • @barneybarney3982
    @barneybarney3982 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    2:50 with same logic you can say there are way more "computers" inside phone, for example charge controller chip, image processing chip, etc... but right answer is just One.

  • @Jirrick
    @Jirrick 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    SIM Tools are present in Android as well, I don't think the 3310 is any more special (in this particular issue) than any other (smart)phone confirming to GSM standard. Also the modem is separate computer in most smartphones (don't believe that request to SIM are coming from main CPU) so there is at least three computers in contemporary phone. Probably much more as power and sensor management is done with specialized controller.

    • @SianaGearz
      @SianaGearz 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The power management and ADC controller is usually not a processor but a simple state machine with minimal flexibility. The whole purpose of it is keeping the analogue domain out of the fully digital SoC.
      You know what is though? The eMMC disk drive usually is a processor. Samsung uses ARM, others have something else, but they have firmware stored on the same flash as the data.

    • @berni8k
      @berni8k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yes its usualy the baseband CPU.
      But depending on where you draw the line you can find a lot more CPUs. Things like SD cards and eMMC flash storage have CPUs doing the job of a memory controller. Other radios like WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS etc tend to have dedicated CPUs to run them. Even dumb looking things like a touchscreen controller has a tiny CPU inside to scan the touch matrix, decide when a touch occurs, calculate the center coordinates and finally send them to the main application CPU. Even something as simple as an accelerometer/gyro chip could have sometimes a CPU inside. But these deeply embedded CPUs usually run code from ROM so are not viable to hack.

    • @SianaGearz
      @SianaGearz 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@berni8k while mask ROM microcontrollers usually make for the least interesting targets, the firmware can be susceptible to ROP, basically reusing existing ROM code and invoking it by smashing the stack.

    • @berni8k
      @berni8k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @Siana Gearz Yes technically it is possible, but there is very little code inside so its difficult to find useful snippets, there is very little RAM (Proabobly

  • @RonLaws
    @RonLaws 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    there i was thinking the sim card was just a memory chip.. how i was wrong :D

  • @kur0ro1
    @kur0ro1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    For additional info. Some menus are embeded to the sim card because we know that sim card can store data but not enough, some menu are requested to the telecom servers and output will appear on your screen.

  • @AlvinAlsace
    @AlvinAlsace 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Lmao i thought everyone had use for the simcard menu. I'm Kenyan and we generally can't live without it. Just google M-PESA

  • @JBBost
    @JBBost 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Can you run Wolfenstein off one or more SIM cards?
    Halfway serious question.

    • @SireSquish
      @SireSquish 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Now you've got me curious about benchmarking a sim card, overclocking it and running Doom on it.

  • @SwordQuake2
    @SwordQuake2 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That's the old famous Nokia that goes for a lot of money on eBay. They use it for some sort of fraud but I don't know the details. Didn't know there were other phones that could do it (the Motorola).

  • @account0199
    @account0199 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    all i could hear was "the sim card runs java" and then i thought "so, it's vulnerable..."

    • @Amejonah
      @Amejonah 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I hope it has not log4j on it tho xP

  • @mikopiko
    @mikopiko 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    0:35 what was happening there? Did he spoof a phone call?

  • @fightingfalconfan
    @fightingfalconfan ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I dont know about other countries since i have never left the us before. But here in the US, your simcard in the phone contains the information needed to successfully connect you to the wireless network. Basically it will tell the network who you are, what your number is, phones mac address, and other identifying information. Say you didn't pay your bill; your carrier will block some functions of the network on their end until you have paid. Plus the network is hidden and dont use your basic wifi for the connection. Your simcard also tells the phone what network its allowed to use.

  • @raz0229
    @raz0229 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    00:08 _Ya'll know what makes Nokia 3310 so special!_

  • @hikaru-live
    @hikaru-live 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If simtrace of this type is doable, I wonder if he can move from that AT91SAM7 microcontroller to a STM32F107, which comes with native Ethernet support and can use regular Ethernet to send the UDP packets?

  • @rupesh43145
    @rupesh43145 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Sim cloning attacks are common now a day's
    What would you like to say on that as according to you we can't clone a sim

  • @squid13579
    @squid13579 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you provide pcap file so we can also understand with live interaction?

  • @dtteamofficial
    @dtteamofficial 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    9:09 that image, sus.

  • @hiareeb
    @hiareeb 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    8:20 I remember blocking my Nokia phone when I was a kid. I attempted too many times the PIN(9 times there) and then it got blocked asking for PUK number. My parents had to run to the service provider. Lot of chaos then. Haha I was just experimenting

  • @dominicdo
    @dominicdo 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You should be an instructor, very good and clear explanation. Good job!

  • @user-kw9cu
    @user-kw9cu 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Советский учёный раскрывает засекреченые технологии немцам. 1943 год в цвете.

  • @psigreen3864
    @psigreen3864 6 ปีที่แล้ว +65

    If a sim card is a computer, does that mean you can play DOOM on it?

    • @hausemester7386
      @hausemester7386 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Its not a computer

    • @Tikolu
      @Tikolu 6 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      @@hausemester7386 Yes it is, did you even watch the video?

    • @danrtavares
      @danrtavares 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      yes it is, but not in the way you imagine.

    • @lukaskarimi9731
      @lukaskarimi9731 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Comput-ers are not only the way you imagine

    • @gerhardvandeventer8636
      @gerhardvandeventer8636 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Its a computer in the sense that it can execute code, store data and talk to the 'outside world'.

  • @unknow03
    @unknow03 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Vielen vielen Dank für die Videos :) Da kann man so viel lernen!
    Lustig das Video kam an meinem 15. Geburtstag raus.

  • @adi.mp3
    @adi.mp3 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    But I'm already Tracer.

    • @TheMrKeksLp
      @TheMrKeksLp 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I bet he doesnt kiss ya

  • @gerimeni7323
    @gerimeni7323 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is one of your coolest video, i always wanted to know about sim card abd the information im getting in this video is amazing

  • @chris_sndw
    @chris_sndw 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Is my credit card also running on java?

  • @SuperGreatSphinx
    @SuperGreatSphinx ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What is the difference between a mobile phone operator and a telephone company?

  • @masaratech
    @masaratech 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    1:37 Do you have the pin number for this card?

    • @tazboy1934
      @tazboy1934 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sultan Mustapha Jallaludin Pasha Han zindabad

  • @aborda6044
    @aborda6044 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That proves some uni are awesome.. they do teach good things...

  • @IcicleFurry
    @IcicleFurry 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    2:30 what about sd-cards?

  • @steenthorsteinsen6557
    @steenthorsteinsen6557 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Is it possible to ACCIDENTALLY get infinite data?

  • @appelnonsurtaxe
    @appelnonsurtaxe 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That was very interesting. I have been curious about these cards for a few months, and I have all the answers I was looking for (especially the similarity between SIM cards and credit cards, or the SIM service menu app in Android, which I didn't know actually kind of ran on the card).

  • @eshan2640
    @eshan2640 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Forget the gsm stuff........how the hell did u crack the Nokia screen !!!!?????

  • @valrossenOliver
    @valrossenOliver 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    A surprise to be sure. But a welcome one!

  • @ShadowMajestic
    @ShadowMajestic 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    For the "How many computers does a mobile phone have" question. Keep in mind that several pieces of hardware are basically a computer of their own. There's more computers in there than just the CPU and SIM. Camera, WiFi, storage, display and I'm probably forgetting a few. All have their own processors.
    I do wonder what the answer of the university was, 2?

  • @Deoxys094
    @Deoxys094 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    You sir, just got a new subscriber!! Thank you so much for this awesome explaination! Right now I'm collaborating in a project related to 4/5G networks, your videos really helped me understand the subject even more!!

    • @AlTiri-rd7ly
      @AlTiri-rd7ly 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      How did the oroject go, 2 months kater?

  • @tauqeerhussain3586
    @tauqeerhussain3586 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    4:21 I saw that in The Bourne Supremacy

  • @PATTHECATMCD
    @PATTHECATMCD 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I and a few colleagues recently had phones hacked, contacts removed. Thanks for giving me enough information to know how this was done, and who was responsible.

  • @EmanuelFrias
    @EmanuelFrias 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This was a very much needed video, I also feel that these kind of topics are not spread out enough. Thanks for sharing, great vid!!

  • @ibrakap
    @ibrakap 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Don't forget Nokia phones. Nokia was best ...

    • @RAGHAVENDRASINGH17
      @RAGHAVENDRASINGH17 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes

    • @greatmjh6853
      @greatmjh6853 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Nokia now makes Android

    • @AtlasMTBRider
      @AtlasMTBRider 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's not about Nokia or any other brand, it's about the chip that was reverse engineered (TI Calypso/Iota/Rita). and it happens to be in those phones.

    • @SwordQuake2
      @SwordQuake2 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      And now Nokia is best again.

  • @luckyb3859
    @luckyb3859 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    A well scripted video which stayed on task and informed the viewer! Many videos waste time with unimportant transitions between content sequences.

  • @Jack-fw9kh
    @Jack-fw9kh 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    thank you so much for this video, in kenya we still use the applet on the sim card a lot, mostly for mobile money transfer which is a very big thing here, would like to get my hands on the osmocombb project , this is really cool though, looking forward for the follow up.

    • @LiveOverflow
      @LiveOverflow  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      can you send me an email or msg me on twitter? I know that in other areas of the world these SIM applications are used a lot and would love to learn more about it!

  • @kaptain1477
    @kaptain1477 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The reason they switched to globe because they fired all the flat earthers.

  • @AnythingMike
    @AnythingMike 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The real question should be, how can we use our mobile phone with having to buy credits to make calls or surf the internet!!!!

  • @dany_fg
    @dany_fg ปีที่แล้ว +1

    all according to the SIMulations

  • @SloppyPuppy
    @SloppyPuppy 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    AT&T has copyrighted this video xD

  • @jaredmeit6127
    @jaredmeit6127 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can’t wait for this series. Most people don’t know that 2G still works across the US.

  • @teknobalance
    @teknobalance ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I wondered how the system works some time ago…
    And this video is very very incredeble. You maintain an insanely high level of quality through each and every video.
    And i’am your new subscriber 🎉🎉

  • @Luzgar
    @Luzgar 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So the menu runs on the actual SIM card?
    What?
    Can't it just give the code of the application to the phone, would have been much simpler.
    Anyway, this blows my mind.

  • @seifenspender
    @seifenspender 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I wondered how the system works some time ago but never wanted to dig in. I think I will learn a lot from this series.
    Thank you so much, this is really interesting. Looking forward for more!

  • @dheerajr8246
    @dheerajr8246 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You hacked the youtube algorithm

  • @parma2414
    @parma2414 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    So, is there a way to sign private messages with a sim card?

    • @fixeria
      @fixeria 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Only if you install a special cardlet for that, I think.

    • @Sypaka
      @Sypaka 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Private messages, what kind? SMS, Email?

    • @berni8k
      @berni8k 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes if you have the secret key inside to decrypt it again. The cellular service provider has a copy of that key (because they are the ones who sold you the SIM card) so that they can decrypt your calls and messages while someone else listening to your cellphones radio traffic can't decrypt it.

  • @timetraveler_0
    @timetraveler_0 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    When I was a kid, everytime I moved to a new school, I used to block my dad's SIM by entering SIM pin wrong thrice, forcing him to get a new number, so that my school teachers won't have any contact to complain about me, if I ended getting caught doing something crazy at school.
    Now I know which piece of code I was running at the time. Thank you!

  • @myofficetop
    @myofficetop 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Вадим молодец! :)

  • @ahmetcelalkupeli2140
    @ahmetcelalkupeli2140 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    So how can I program and inject my own java code samples in SIM card

  • @terragame5836
    @terragame5836 6 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    4:44 OMG, It's a russian nokia! It says "Введите пин-код". I had almost an exact one when I was a child.
    Also, is that it? No attacks, no interference, just observe and enjoy? I'm kinda disappointed

    • @LiveOverflow
      @LiveOverflow  6 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      SURPRISE!!! A lot of IT security research doesn't have anything to do with any attacks :P

    • @terragame5836
      @terragame5836 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      LiveOverflow, Of course, but I think it would be fun to mess around with that a bit. It's a computer you can interact with, why not hack it and make it do what you want to?)

    • @ggeilokowski
      @ggeilokowski 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Terragame like a sim car jailbreak? Iam going to build a sim card supercomputer