What if Bilbo Never Found the One Ring? Theory

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 754

  • @venkats5368
    @venkats5368 6 ปีที่แล้ว +954

    Wow, Smaug being alive during the events of the LOTR would have complicated things a lot!

    • @brianc9374
      @brianc9374 6 ปีที่แล้ว +41

      Venkat S...what if smaug or balrog claimed the ring

    • @twinkthatloveslotrtrilogy7676
      @twinkthatloveslotrtrilogy7676 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Smaug most likely join Sauron

    • @T-REX-KNIGHT
      @T-REX-KNIGHT 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Goodbye eagles xD

    • @aharonaryeh4049
      @aharonaryeh4049 5 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      Yeah. But the eagles would’ve dealt with him as they did with Ancalogon the Black who makes Smaug look like a peanut.

    • @ericmatthews5730
      @ericmatthews5730 5 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Venkat S That was the entire reason why Gandalf sent the dwarves to Erebor, to Smaug wouldn't Sauron

  • @gerrymcwilliam
    @gerrymcwilliam 6 ปีที่แล้ว +547

    What if Gollum did not betray Frodo and Sam?
    What if he redeemed himself?

    • @Nastgardaren
      @Nastgardaren 6 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      Gerry McWilliam he would have thrown himself into orodruin with the ring

    • @gerrymcwilliam
      @gerrymcwilliam 6 ปีที่แล้ว +58

      Nastgardaren i was actually thinking he would sacrificing himself. After Frodo claims the ring. He takes the ring Frodo goes into a rage. Sam thinks Gollum has claimed it. But upon seeing the rage in Frodo. He knew he would never truly be free. So throws himself into the lava.

    • @charimonfanboy
      @charimonfanboy 6 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      Possibility 1, Gollum made disguising the party as orcs impossible, they were all found and killed and Sauron got the ring.
      Possibility 2, Gollum never intended to betray them to Shelob and thus took them past her, they tried to sneak in some other way, they were all found and killed and Sauron got the ring
      Possibility 3, Gollum managed to lead them to the cave, Frodo succumbed to the ring like he did in the books, smash Gollum over the head, put the ring on and evade Sam, fleeing down the mountain. The Nazgul would be alerted, they would have returned, they were all found and killed and Sauron got the ring
      Possibility 4, Gollum recognises Frodo succumbing to the ring and argues with him, Sam fears treachery and kills Gollum, Frodo and Sam go to the cave, Frodo succumbs to to the ring like he did in the books, puts the ring on and evades Sam, flreeing down the mountain. The Nazgul would be allerted, they would have returned they are all found and killed and Sauron gets the ring

    • @Special_Tactics_Force_Unit
      @Special_Tactics_Force_Unit 6 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Thank Sam for ruining that from ever happening.

    • @Seriously_Unserious
      @Seriously_Unserious 5 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@charimonfanboy Possibility 5 - Gollum has earned Sam's trust, to at least a small degree, as he's redeeming himself, and when Gollum recognizes that Frodo is corrupted by the ring in Mt Doom, he Gollum says to Sam, "the Precious is taking Frodo!" then wrestles Frodo for the ring. Sam either does not interfere, or seeing the un-Frodoish look on his friend's face just before putting on the ring, recognizes the truth in what Gollum just said and joins Gollum in wrestling with Frodo for the ring. From here 1 of 4 possibilities can happen next:
      1- Frodo wins the struggle and escapes with the ring, resulting in the Nazgul coming to Mt Doom as in the OP, and eventually in Sauron getting the ring, though it is also possible that the Nazgul never make it as they and their fellbeasts get intercepted by the Eagles and die, in which case either Sauron still gets the ring some other way, or Frodo eventually defeats Sauron with the power of the ring and becomes the new dark lord, taking Sauron's place. Essentially all outcomes where Frodo stays in possession of the ring, it is not destroyed and manages to leave Mt Doom end in something bad happening, one way or another.
      2- Gollum wins the ring and throws himself into the magma, sacrificing himself to destroy the ring, as in the book and movie, only this time as a selfless act rather then out of clumsiness.
      3- Sam wins the ring, and having only been in posession of it for a very short time before and now only just in possession of it, the Ring does not have the time to corrupt him and he tosses it into the magma, destroying the Ring and all 3 ring bearers survive. Frodo and Gollum, now going by his original name of Smergl again, reside in The Shire for a time, before both going West on the Elvin ships to the undying lands, along with Bilbo. (clearly the best possible outcome)
      4- In their struggle, all 3 fall in with the ring still on Frodo's finger and all 3 die and the ring is destroyed.

  • @Imtotallydiggingthis
    @Imtotallydiggingthis 6 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    I think theres a lot of weaknesses with this theory.
    Gandalf wouldn't have gotten trapped when he went back for Bilbo. He wouldn't have found him either, but he would have gotten out.
    If he was captured, Sauron wouldn't have left him alive.
    Sauron would have found the ring. The ring would have been searching for Sauron.

    • @tarmairon431
      @tarmairon431 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The Ring had mastered Gollum (as Frodo stated), so Gullum would not be able to hide from Sauron.

    • @ivanmilat3105
      @ivanmilat3105 ปีที่แล้ว

      Didnt Sauron capture Gandalf in the original and kept him alive and then the white council saved him or am I tripping

  • @thesamuraihobbit
    @thesamuraihobbit 6 ปีที่แล้ว +93

    What if Lobelia Sackville-Baggins was able to sneak off with Frodo's valuables in Fellowship of the Ring?

    • @drewmandan
      @drewmandan 5 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      That's too terrible to contemplate.

    • @michaelbowen2343
      @michaelbowen2343 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@drewmandan Not the silverware! 😭

    • @zacglover3345
      @zacglover3345 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Bilbo: lobelia I entrust you to carry the one ring to mordor.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • @MrMartechi
    @MrMartechi 6 ปีที่แล้ว +62

    I think you have to take into account the fact that "the ring grew restless"... I've always been under the impression that the Ring and Sauron were intimately connected to each other and the Ring would "use" its power to be found one way or another once it sensed that Sauron had returned to the world.

    • @jordanelza8806
      @jordanelza8806 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      You’re probably right. The Ring wanted to get away from Gollum to get back to Sauron. But then Bilbo found it and we all know the rest.

    • @amacuro
      @amacuro ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree. I think it would have made more sense to imagine the ring would have betrayed Gollum and would have been found by someone else who would have eventually wound up in the hands of the Nazgul.

    • @andrewthomas891
      @andrewthomas891 ปีที่แล้ว

      Agreed

  • @michaelminervini1908
    @michaelminervini1908 5 ปีที่แล้ว +118

    Can you do a "What if Gandalf didn't "die" in Moria" video. I always wondered what HIS plan was for getting into Mordor. Your speculation would be appreciated.

    • @CommonSenz
      @CommonSenz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      FLY you fools.

    • @alexm9044
      @alexm9044 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I've always wondered that as well!!

    • @Misantroph0
      @Misantroph0 ปีที่แล้ว

      Gandalfs Plan was to go to Mordor from the Moment they left Rivendell.
      Rivendell-> Rohan -> Gondor -> Mordor
      Only Problem would be Minas Morgul. Gandalf of course knows about this City. How the Fellowship would sneak past the Witch Kings Eyes especially with a weakened Frodo without beeing seen remains a Theory.

  • @TroyTalks.
    @TroyTalks. 5 ปีที่แล้ว +53

    "Riddles in the Dark" was such a frightening passage to read

    • @doltBmB
      @doltBmB 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Such a shame they made it so light in the film. It would have been brave with total darkness, though I would have settled for even the kind of darkness we see in the flashback to it in the prologue.

  • @Shaden0040
    @Shaden0040 6 ปีที่แล้ว +193

    What if Thorin had searched Bilbo for the arkenstone and found the one ring?

    • @redblaze8700
      @redblaze8700 5 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      He would become corrupted by its power, and use it to first win the Battle of Five Armies, and from there start his takeover of Middle Earth. The Elves would be the ones to suffer most, since his hatred of them would intensify.

    • @mattbrabham6351
      @mattbrabham6351 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@redblaze8700 I think Thorin hates orcs far more than elves. I mean he did save Legolas' life during the movies. And in the book the elves aren't that bad.

    • @redblaze8700
      @redblaze8700 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@mattbrabham6351 But we all know how the ring corrupts its wearers.

    • @noname0224
      @noname0224 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@redblaze8700 Not with dwarfs my Friend the 7 dwarfen Rings also coudnt corrupt them

    • @williamsn9285
      @williamsn9285 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      It would have mostly likely just intensifies his greed for gems in the lonely mountain like how the dragon sickness did. Only this time there could have been no return since its not just any ring but the ONE ring

  • @spaceonisorceress4406
    @spaceonisorceress4406 6 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I wouldn't be surprised if Bilbo happening upon the ring was another subtle intervention by Eru. Nudging the ring over towards Bilbo's hand, and in so doing, changing the course of history, definitely seems like his style.

  • @firepowerg
    @firepowerg 6 ปีที่แล้ว +107

    If you recall from LOTR The Shadow of the Past Gollum was drawn to Mordor by the will of Sauron as the ring had "mastered" him long ago, (Frodo's words in The Taming of Smeagol).
    This was despite him having lost the ring many decades earlier, he was still susceptible to Sauron's call.
    Therefore if he still had the ring I think he would have been even more drawn to Mordor, even eventually overcoming his fear of light to submit and the ring would have returned to its master.

    • @uniseine
      @uniseine 6 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      But Gollum was looking for the ring. Otherwise Gollum would still be in his cave.

  • @doch1228
    @doch1228 6 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    The One Ring had the ability to seek out peoples weaknesses and some sort of powerful pull, it needed someone to wear it, it wanted new company, so just like Gollum, Bilbo became obsessed with the ring, as shown in the woods where he fought the spiders and recovered the ring, after slaying one spider he knelt down by it and said , It is mine, he reeled in revulsion as he realised , he had become enthralled with it. So in essence the Ring was sentient.

  • @TheDiscoDev
    @TheDiscoDev 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Your channel is fantastic. Thank you so much for shedding light on some lesser known aspects of Tolkein's wonderful world!

  • @buster9022
    @buster9022 6 ปีที่แล้ว +125

    What if boromir and faramir both went to the council and joined the fellowship

    • @buster9022
      @buster9022 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Sander Skovly it made me think about how would thing have worked out if faramir was there and how it would would have changed the council and the adventure.

    • @buster9022
      @buster9022 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Sander Skovly or would the fellowship have split into two bigger groups than original story line say borimir went with Aragorn Legolas and Gimli sending faramir with Frodo and Sam.

    • @spaceangelmewtwo9074
      @spaceangelmewtwo9074 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      That or if Faramir went to the Council instead of Boromir. The encounter in Ithilien would have gone badly if Boromir was there instead, but I'm inclined to believe that Boromir would not have been there since he would probably be busy elsewhere rather than scouting the wild. That and if Faramir was present in the original Fellowship instead of Boromir, then he may have been able to accompany Frodo and Sam much further into the quest since he would make no attempt to steal the ring. I don't think he would have been killed at Rauros since the reason Boromir was killed is because his attempt to get the ring separated him from the others, with only the inexperienced Merry and Pippin to back him up. He might be able to guide them into the very fires of Mordor. The ring might begin to take hold over him at some point, but the ring appeared to have much less of an effect on Faramir than it did on other men, and he was very obstinate that he would not ever use it, not even to save Gondor itself. The main problem is that Faramir would probably kill Gollum in Mount Doom, and the corruption of the Ring would prevent anyone from destroying it, causing the quest to fail. Gollum was ultimately the one who destroyed the ring due to being overwhelmed with accomplishment and joy upon getting it back and accidentally falling into Mount Doom while celebrating. That's not something I can picture anyone else in that party doing.
      Either all that, or Faramir would have returned to Gondor after Rauros like Boromir intended to and events would have played out much the same except with Boromir still alive. Faramir would probably have hurried Frodo and Sam on rather than delay them even for a mere moment in Ithilien since he would already be familiar with their quest. Actually, if that happened, Gollum might even be redeemed, since it was while the party was held up in Ithilien that Gollum entered the Forbidden Pool, and the turning point that made Gollum overcome Smeagol was that event. If that never happened, Smeagol might have been able to find redemption, at least until they reached Mount Doom and he realized Frodo intended to destroy his Precious.
      Hmm... The battle for Minas Tirith might have gone much better for Gondor as well. One of the main problems for Gondor during that battle is that Gandalf was their only leader due to Faramir having been sent on a suicide mission by Denethor, who then proceeded to fall into a suicidal despair himself. Since Denethor loved Boromir much more than Faramir, he probably would not have sent Boromir on that suicide mission and thus delayed Denethor's decent into insanity at least long enough for the battle to take place. With three leaders instead of one, the men of Minas Tirith would have been much more organized and less prone to giving in to fear.

    • @khandesmet1783
      @khandesmet1783 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      buster9022 then the fellowship would be bigger

  • @JuniorFanCirca1989
    @JuniorFanCirca1989 6 ปีที่แล้ว +270

    The, uh, the ring, uh-- the ring finds a, uh, it find a way.
    Made you read it in his voice, didn't I?

    • @Moonbeam143
      @Moonbeam143 6 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      The Big Red Dog Yes! 😛 Video idea: What if the T-Rex found the One Ring?

    • @JuniorFanCirca1989
      @JuniorFanCirca1989 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Must go faster, must go faster!.. She has the ring.. Fuck, embrace the abyss.

    • @merrittanimation7721
      @merrittanimation7721 6 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Sauron creates the ring, man destroys Sauron.
      The ring destroys man ... woman inherits the Earth.

    • @thehackingburger3002
      @thehackingburger3002 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Merritt Animation
      What about the elves? And dwarves. And basically anything that isn't of the race of Men?

    • @alonsoarana5307
      @alonsoarana5307 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Moonbeam in place of a Dark Lord, you would have a QUEEN!

  • @akshayshrim
    @akshayshrim 6 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Thanks Yoystan!!! Was waiting for it and in my impatience even tweeted you a request :) excellent vid as usual and the graphics keep getting better.

  • @aperson3511
    @aperson3511 6 ปีที่แล้ว +225

    can I get a "I see you" from the dark Lord Sauron?

    • @MenoftheWest
      @MenoftheWest  6 ปีที่แล้ว +81

      "I see you... There is no life in the void..."
      Good guy Sauron and his inspirational quotes... haha

    • @aperson3511
      @aperson3511 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      *sniffles*

    • @aperson3511
      @aperson3511 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      actually, I find that quote quite curious.
      does that mean that ringbearer's spirits are doomed to the void?

    • @briant4468
      @briant4468 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      anyone who likes the mythos should also check out the Connan world as the lore is almost as big as Tolkiens from what I hear the writer was heavily influenced and wanted to create a large world of his own for his cannon

    • @shigglezz684
      @shigglezz684 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @TM Delacrush sheer numbers man. Even tho theyre weak as individuals they had hundreds to thousands.

  • @wyldcard3052
    @wyldcard3052 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I've been doing a deep-dive on your channel trying to answer a couple of questions I have regarding the one ring, and was hoping you could answer them:
    First, how did Bilbo have the strength to give up the ring to Gandalf/Frodo? Had he not owned it long enough, or is there a fate element to Smeagol ultimately destroying it?
    Second, why didn't Smeagol immediately age when he lost the ring to Bilbo? When Bilbo did give it up, he looked his age straight away, and quickly became the nap king of Riverrun.
    Love the content Yoystan, keep it up!

  • @nealsterling8151
    @nealsterling8151 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great video!
    The more i watch this channel, the more i'm in the mood to play LotRO (although i hate MMORPGs, lol).
    I really love the quality and the amount of though you put into each video, it's absolutely stunning and a pleasure to watch.
    Take care!

  • @sandram2974
    @sandram2974 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Found your channel today and subscribed. So glad that I did! Thanks for the great storytelling and for the other illustrators and collaborators that helped bring the story to life. Very well done!

  • @Dimbledude
    @Dimbledude 6 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    I've wondered about something and maybe it could one day be a theory video, what if Boromir had been successful in taking the one ring from Frodo?

    • @badgasaurus4211
      @badgasaurus4211 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Sam Rosania There’re a number of ways that could turn out actually. If Boromir takes it back to Minas Tirith then the kingdom’s of the west will surely fall under the power of Sauron’s armies and if Boromir was to be slain similar to in the books when he defended Merry and Pippin then the orcs would obtain the ring and who knows what would happen there. Aragorn may even fight with Boromir to stop him leaving with the ring. I do believe if he had taken the ring though that Sauron would have won because the ring would not have been destroyed in time most likely.

    • @tuub1281
      @tuub1281 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Exactly what Badgasaurus said. The problem is not that the Ring cannot be used against Sauron, but the problem is more that nobody in Gondor had the strenght to use it against Sauron. The Ring enhances once strenght greatly, but with a superior soldier (as that's the best Gondor has to offer) you aren't going to win the war.
      If anyone would be able to use the Ring against Sauron and have a chance of success it would only be the likes of Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel.

  • @redearthblue1346
    @redearthblue1346 5 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    He was meant to find it. One of the few stories that starts with a dues ex machina. There is also some conjecture that hobbits, whose origins are obscure, were made to find the ring.

  • @vidhitnavani6462
    @vidhitnavani6462 6 ปีที่แล้ว +82

    Can you make a sequel to this theory? I want to know what would happen next and if the free people have a chance to win

    • @godemperorofmankind3.091
      @godemperorofmankind3.091 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      the Valar come to save the day, like the ending of the ring going West.

    • @RomanHistoryFan476AD
      @RomanHistoryFan476AD 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Simple Gandalf comes back to life, returned as Gandalf the Sliver and he single handily ends all evil.

    • @countiblis1246
      @countiblis1246 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RomanHistoryFan476AD "Gandalf the Sliver"... You mean he comes back as a shard of glass?

    • @RomanHistoryFan476AD
      @RomanHistoryFan476AD 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@countiblis1246 no after white Sliver is more shiny. you got to up the shiny with each come back.

    • @countiblis1246
      @countiblis1246 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RomanHistoryFan476AD A sliver is just a smaller piece broken off something larger. It's not necessarily sharper. I think you're getting sliver mixed up with silver.

  • @andrewmatseshe7343
    @andrewmatseshe7343 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    “This thing all things devours. Birds, beasts, trees, flowers. Gnaws Iron, bites steel, and grinds hard stone to meal. Slays king, ruins town and beats high mountain down!” Read that when I was 5 years old. Reading it to my daughter now. RIP Tolkien

  • @ryan4327
    @ryan4327 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I really enjoy these "what if" scenarios, thanks for posting!

  • @hungrydrummerjoey3440
    @hungrydrummerjoey3440 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Awesome video man, as a diehard Tolkien fan I always enjoy your new content! This really gave me chills lol

  • @jacobymt
    @jacobymt 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    One of the best theories you've created. Music from Kevin MacLeod is excellent. I look forward to next week!

  • @myjoyinacross6626
    @myjoyinacross6626 6 ปีที่แล้ว +66

    My wife and I were watching the Hobbit yesterday, and I came to the realization that Bilbo brought the one ring into Erebor. While Bilbo has the ring on, Smaug says that he can sense the gold and power the theif carries. One idea for a video is if Smaug actually obtains the one ring from Bilbo. Would Smaug even be able to use the one ring, and if so, how would he use it?

    • @timonsolus
      @timonsolus 5 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      The Ring can expand (or shrink) to any size needed, so even Smaug could wear it.
      The Ring would not make Smaug invisible, any more than it did Sauron. Smaug is so powerful he doesn't need invisibility to escape from his enemies. It can give different powers to different wielders. Instead, it would likely give Smaug magical powers, enhancing his ability to dominate other living creatures. For example, perhaps it would give Smaug the ability to change form at will (like Sauron before the downfall of Numenor), create a vast cloud of darkness (like Ungoliant) and control the thoughts of others (like Glaurung).

    • @jakealter5504
      @jakealter5504 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Tim Smith Smaug likely had the same powers as glaurung but not as strong

    • @princeofsomnia7664
      @princeofsomnia7664 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      You will have invinsible dragon. Imagine that.

    • @timonsolus
      @timonsolus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @PhillipMargrave : No, Gandalf says in the Lord of the Rings that no dragon could destroy the One Ring, not even Ancalogon the Black, the largest and most powerful dragon that had ever lived (destroyed in a battle with the Valar before the First Age).

    • @timonsolus
      @timonsolus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @PhillipMargrave : Actually, Sauron wasn’t always part of the physical plane, not after his body was destroyed after the Fall of Numenor, not after it was destroyed again in the War of the Last Alliance.
      I agree with you that possession of the Ring didn’t affect Sauron in that way, however. Not sure about other beings, however. I still think that an invisible dragon is pointless, however cool it might seem.

  • @scottfree2248
    @scottfree2248 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Love the channel! Great Video! I think Bilbo was destined to find the Ring by Eru Illuvatar. To maintain a balance in Arda over the seeds of Darkness first planted by Melkor in earlier ages.

  • @jamesderington9141
    @jamesderington9141 6 ปีที่แล้ว +80

    what if Smaug found the One Ring? I think Gollum would find himself in the dragons shadow eventually. If like, I hope you'll a video about this. Smaug vs. Gollum in a Game of riddles, precious?

    • @tuub1281
      @tuub1281 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Actually, he would not. Sauron had literally zero authority over Smaug. Instead however i still believe Sauron would have gotten the Ring if he had found out. It would have been a simple matter of besieging the Lonely Mountain and sending in the Nazgûl.

    • @tuub1281
      @tuub1281 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Sauron was indeed a high ranked commander of Morgoth's army, but just like the Balrogs and Dragons, Sauron was nothing but a simple servant of the Dark Lord.
      Sauron is no Morgoth and his power is nonexistant in comparison. There is really no reason to assume that the likes of the Balrog and Dragon would serve him.
      In fact, Smaug himself never had a master, and considered himself a master on his own. Noting that Sauron does not hold the power to corrupt him (as Dragons themselves were masters in deception), he would have no succes there, or at least not on the level in which Sauron would be his Lord. If anything, the best Sauron could accompish was a temporary alliance with Smaug.
      As for the Balrog, we should not forget that it had not seen anything of the world outside of Moria after it had fled into the depths. It's Lord, for all we know, was still Morgoth and nobody else. Then there's also the fact that both Sauron and the Balrog were Maiar spirits, and unlike the Balrog, Sauron did not have his full power, and thus was in comparison weaker than the Balrog at this stage. All with all it is very hard to believe he would serve Sauron.
      Not to forget, If Sauron truely had such control, he would not have been so foolish to let Smaug lie there unprotected, nor had he been so foolish to just ignore Durin's Bane for so long.
      In all honesty, it is even debatable on whether or not Sauron even knew about the Balrog, and to a lesser extend, Smaug.

    • @tuub1281
      @tuub1281 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      There's literally nothing i said that would go against canon, just like there's literally nothing that even suggests Sauron knowing about, let alone commanding, Durin's Bane and Smaug.

    • @tuub1281
      @tuub1281 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Again, nothing of it goes against the canon. In fact, it more so follows the canon rather than anything else.

    • @wolfyboy
      @wolfyboy 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tuub1281 the nazgûl don't like fire, so... god luck to them. especially if smaug ate the ring, and gained power.

  • @MountainFisher
    @MountainFisher 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Been waiting for this one, good show Yoystan. Spot on too.

  • @at0micwerew0lf
    @at0micwerew0lf 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great commentary. You have some of the most enjoyable Tolkien videos, as well as one of the better comment sections/viewership.

  • @jameswebber359
    @jameswebber359 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love that in great dispair you still found hope. Tolkien would be proud.

  • @theserpent6070
    @theserpent6070 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    You’re awesome, this was by far my favourite theory

  • @edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119
    @edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119 6 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    I dare to think Eru himself allowed Bilbo to find the ring. Much like how Eru caused Gollum to stumble and fall into the fire. Bilbo and the ring are a great example of Fate and Choice. I think Fate is a very real thing. I don't believe in coincidence. To me coincidence is a concept of those who refuse to see all the things that link in the world. Honestly if coincidence did exist I don't think the world would last. And Choice is a very real thing with very real affects on the world. Small choices especially always have lasting affects. You bury a passion for say writing for example and you never show the world your very possible, perhaps even likely talent and ideas, never sharing any wisdom that story could give another in a time of need, or even s simple a thing as providing genuine entertainment to one who needs it. Or you take up the craft of writing and share your brilliant mind to others. Bilbo picks up a gold ring and brings it back out into the world.

    • @scottfree2248
      @scottfree2248 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Jedidiah Wingard I agree! Perfect explanation!

    • @kingra2650
      @kingra2650 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      brilliant comment, totally agree

    • @edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119
      @edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Andrew Bonner and Scott Free, thank you both. I wasn't expecting anyone to like that comment this much. In truth I was expecting skeptics to say something, even if this is the fantasy community. (I'd also just like to mention I changed my example of choice because I found my previous example to be rather weak.) Thanks again, it's a pleasant thing to find good people on TH-cam. :)

    • @FuZion1988
      @FuZion1988 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      It was Bilbo who caused Gollum

    • @uniseine
      @uniseine 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      The ring made Gollum fall. Remember that Gollum swore on the ring not to hurt Frodo.

  • @codykeck8823
    @codykeck8823 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please keep making videos. I listen to them on my long commutes to work and school! Thank you so much.

  • @x0UncleSam0x
    @x0UncleSam0x ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Gandalf would certainly have been able to flee the goblin captivity before being delivered to Sauron

  • @aperson3511
    @aperson3511 6 ปีที่แล้ว +61

    oh man I've been looking forward to this all week

  • @Dark_Jaguar
    @Dark_Jaguar 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The dangerous thing is the triumvirate may have found themselves a balrog at one point in their search for the ring. That thing's a maiar too and likely they may all have tried to work out an alliance with it as well. Now there's a "protectorate" of evil.

  • @mousermind
    @mousermind 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    You forgot that Gollum was compelled to return to Sauron even without possessing the ring. That urge would likely be all the more powerful for him if he still possessed it. Sauron _would_ have the ring.

    • @Ulfcytel
      @Ulfcytel 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Although while Sauron was in Dol Guldur, Gollum had not been drawn thither - despite it being much closer to his cave than Mordor was.

  • @uniseine
    @uniseine 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Gollum would have been found. "Goblin he thought good, when he could get it; but he took care they never found him out. He just throttled them from behind, if they ever came down alone anywhere near the edge of the water, while he was prowling about. They very seldom did, for they had a feeling that something unpleasant was lurking down there, down at the very roots of the mountain. They had come on the lake, when they were tunnelling down long ago, and they found they could go no further; so there their road ended in that direction, and there was no reason to go that way-unless the Great Goblin sent them. Sometimes he took a fancy for fish from the lake, and sometimes neither goblin nor fish came back."

  • @dustinhowell7612
    @dustinhowell7612 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This has been your best what if yet! Thank you

  • @TheBritGhostea
    @TheBritGhostea 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That was intense! But also it was really cool to see how it could've gone with the villains winning. I really enjoyed it!

  • @RemusKingOfRome
    @RemusKingOfRome 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    GREAT What-If ! Gandalf knew Bilbo would find the ring, this is why he wanted him part of Thorin's party. Gandalf obviously saw into the future.

    • @johnycoho7830
      @johnycoho7830 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think Gandalf said he new Bilbo would be important somehow and that he could tell that Thorin would need Bilbo's help before the end. But he didn't know why or how.

  • @marionbaggins
    @marionbaggins 6 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Woah...Woah...Just Woah!!! I have not words to explain my mood! Besides *Bilbo NNNNNNOOOOOO!!!* *Cries*
    Me: I wish none of this had happened.
    Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
    That's for your Theory Until the Battle...Marion Baggins Out!!!

    • @barbarianjk2355
      @barbarianjk2355 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Marion Baggins I know how this feels >

  • @jasonvanek
    @jasonvanek 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Yoystan, you are a great storyteller. I think my favorite videos are the theory ones. You do a great job I just wish they were longer.
    Have you ever considered doing a reading of the books. I think it would be a great addition to your channel even if you read he riddles in the dark for instance. I have heard Tolkien reading of that in a digital copy of the hobbit I have off iBooks.

  • @thorsyer9201
    @thorsyer9201 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love watching your videos keep up the amazing work

  • @JoseHernandez-xf9oh
    @JoseHernandez-xf9oh 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    so, "What If Bilbo Never Found the One Ring?", take us to a part in which the elves remerge to take affairs in the world? really love that idea.

  • @DamonNomad82
    @DamonNomad82 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Mae Govannen, Mellon! I am a big fan of your "what if" scenarios. I have one scenario that I have been wondering about. When the hobbits and Strider left Bree, they were delayed a few hours because Merry's ponies were driven off by the ringwraiths and they had to find a replacement pony. What if, instead of a few hours' delay, they were delayed by a full day? Gandalf, riding Shadowfax, arrived at Bree that night. How would adding Gandalf to the party have altered their plans? And how would the ringwraiths react? I would love to see a video on this question!

  • @blasto652
    @blasto652 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Can you do a video about what if the balrog got the one ring? I would love to know how things would turn out then (Would he give it to sauron or would he take it for himself and attempt to overpower the orks and get them to follow him?)

  • @jacobelliott8292
    @jacobelliott8292 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was dope!! Had me on the edge of my seat. It might be the weed talking but youre onto some wicked killer ideas here mate. Cheers to you for that one.

  • @UncleMikeDrop
    @UncleMikeDrop 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Kudos on the ominous background music. It really set the tone quite effectively.

  • @alexmohr8135
    @alexmohr8135 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I would love to have a part 2 of this what if scenario. This is great material

  • @AllYourBaseRBelong2Us
    @AllYourBaseRBelong2Us 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The ring wanted to be found. Just as it slipped from the finger of the Son of Ellendil it would have once again found itself free of Smeagol. It was, i believe, the imperceptibly small influence of Eru that lead the Hobbit to find it instead of some Orc or goblin. Had a fell creature discovered it, it would have within a short span have found itself in the possession of its creator.

  • @chevin0
    @chevin0 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That was awesome!! I'm a huge fan of the 'what if' videos. I would think the Elves could defeat one dragon, but assuming they failed, I think Sauron would have eventually drawn Durin's Bane to his service, without betrayal. that would allow him to crush the other two and pursue the One at his leisure

  • @jakealter5504
    @jakealter5504 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It’s funny that Smaug actually was planning to join sauron in the extended version of the hobbit movies

  • @EpilepticPsycho
    @EpilepticPsycho 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Such great videos, thank you!

  • @barbarayhivjaneahl3198
    @barbarayhivjaneahl3198 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great theory. Reminds me of the TRPG Midnight, which is often describes has LOTR if evil won. I like how you took the elven rings out of play by have Sauron get Nenya, I almost missed that little detail. As far as who would get to the ring first, I'd like to think the free people would find it. In fact, if you'd indulge me, I'd think that it be a hobbit, now wondering like everyone else, who would find it and with the the help of Gandolf, who is imagine would stay and help the hobbits out of duty and guilt, would stay with them and protect and council them in the wilds, try and take it to Mount Doom. But with everyone desperate to end the reign of the Three Lords, they'd be hunted by not just by evil agents but by other free people's who either want to use it or don't trust the halfings and Gandolf to destroy it. But that's just some fun brainstorming on my part. Thanks again for your hardwork.

  • @MidwestManMountain
    @MidwestManMountain 6 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    You need to write fan fiction short novels. A compendium of your alternative Middle Earth history stories would sell. Kickstarter gold right there.

  • @100dfrost
    @100dfrost 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting concept, well written and researched. Very good video, thanks.

  • @PhyloGenesis
    @PhyloGenesis 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love it! I appreciate that you didn't stop at when Bilbo died.

  • @appleandcheese2185
    @appleandcheese2185 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Ahh much would be different.. great vid man!

  • @huntclanhunt9697
    @huntclanhunt9697 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Couldn't Gollum have also been unable to find the Ring while arguing Riddles with Bilbo? He was ready to attack Bilbo without the Ring when he thought Bilbo had it. He may have done so again and been slain.

  • @loualleluia6353
    @loualleluia6353 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I also feel that the ring itself has a will of its own and had a hand in the choice of its new owner. In addition to Smeagol (and perhaps his brother?), the ring tempted Gandalf, the lady Galadriel, and maybe Sam, although I think Sam's motives were purely altruistic. Since Gandalf was in the neighborhood, I think he would have found the ring (or it found him), would have been tempted by the ring but he would have resisted and found a good new owner. Gandalf thought hobbits had the strength to be a ring bearer, and since they were largely unknown, He may have entrusted the ring to another hobbit.

    • @davidlewis5312
      @davidlewis5312 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      it may not be hobbits in particular but that could be part of it. The Ring plays to your ambitions against your sense of self and will. So someone like Bilbo with a strong will and sense of self but the ambition 'I want to go home, drink some tea, and right in my book' doesn't really offer the Ring a lot to play on. That's why someone like Bilbo can have the ring for decades and not be completely destroyed where as someone like Aragorn, who is still a willful person with a good center but ambitious, probably wouldn't last a week against the Ring's influence.

  • @Dennis_Reynolds_Golden_God
    @Dennis_Reynolds_Golden_God 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You know this one is going to require a part 2. Don't leave me hanging man.

  • @Woody.Doppelganger
    @Woody.Doppelganger 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love it, but any change to a story comes be the novelist pen strokes. :) Love the world building of JRR Tolkien's vast imagine always good to see people's love for this work do the same. 😊

  • @joshuamorris3951
    @joshuamorris3951 5 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    With all do respect, you lost me with the statement you made about Gandalf being over powered by Goblins, and then tortured. Sorry, I think not.

    • @andrewhodyss9092
      @andrewhodyss9092 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      There was literally tens of thousands of goblins that's why. Imagine gandalf trying to single handedly defeat the isengard army that attacked helms deep.

    • @IndigoIndustrial
      @IndigoIndustrial 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@andrewhodyss9092 Goblins seem a bit less stocky than orcs, and more prone to flee. If he could start a panic then he wouldn't have to slay them all.

    • @colinmcdonald2499
      @colinmcdonald2499 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yes, at that point in the story he had already killed the goblin king and smote numerous goblins dead with his magic. He would have ripped them up.

    • @fuzzylumpkins219805
      @fuzzylumpkins219805 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Gandalf is basically a demi god he only uses as much magic as he needs to. This is a huge downplay of his power

    • @AuntieDawnsKitchen
      @AuntieDawnsKitchen 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The Istari don’t have the blatant magic of other Maiar. Remember, Gandalf died killing that balrog

  • @aaroncwiklinski8736
    @aaroncwiklinski8736 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    These theory vids are awesome!! You should do a part 2.

  • @cdiabo4
    @cdiabo4 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is a wonderful theory, and I truly love your videos. Do you think if these evens would have happened that the Valar would have stepped in?

  • @fluvoxin6058
    @fluvoxin6058 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    75k subs... awesome! Keep it up dude, you'll be doing this as your job in no time ;)

  • @phoule76
    @phoule76 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    great tale! only the Durin's Bane remained unaccounted for!

  • @jacobcottom265
    @jacobcottom265 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    "The Dark Triumvirate" is an amazing name for the three

  • @mralfpit
    @mralfpit 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    More theories! Keep em coming! Fantastic video!

  • @Falstaff0809
    @Falstaff0809 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nicely done, as usual

  • @RyanTheWebGuy
    @RyanTheWebGuy 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love how your ad is at the end of your theory. That's how TH-cam should be. Also, love your content!

  • @QuantumTap
    @QuantumTap 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember suggesting this ages ago, thanks for making the video

  • @alexpineda9322
    @alexpineda9322 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dang. All of this, if Bilbo never found the one ring. This my favorite video. Great job Man.

  • @SuperPank
    @SuperPank 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Please do a part II.
    Perhaps make more theories, of what would happen, if either of the faction found Gollum.

  • @AG-dx4vu
    @AG-dx4vu 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Chilling! Great video as usual :)

  • @wahoo1213
    @wahoo1213 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    New subscriber here. Loving these videos. Do you explain the history and meaning behind the symbol of Gondor in any of your videos?

  • @markjupiter4
    @markjupiter4 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic! I wake up in the Morning and I see the perfect thing to get me ready for the day. Thanks!

  • @Collin12345
    @Collin12345 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    You make awesome videos 👏

  • @IanHeins
    @IanHeins 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice work dude thanks

  • @jaredverelst4031
    @jaredverelst4031 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like your theory! Any chance you could redo it with one twist, Gandalf and Thorin's company go back to find Bilbo but are to late, see him die to gollum who escapes with the one ring so that Gandalf and Thorin's company know of who had the ring, from there do what you will! Thanks, even if you don't do this I enjoyed listening to your theory as I do all your videos. Keep em coming !

  • @PietrysCA
    @PietrysCA 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    ugh, so good! thank you very much for this!

  • @GaveMeGrace1
    @GaveMeGrace1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think that as Sauron re-emerges that Gollum’s use of the One Ring would have seen the Sark Lords’s attention and the Nine would triangulate his location sooner than later; especially with Gandalf’s ring and his own connection. Thank you.

  • @rochrich1223
    @rochrich1223 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The Ring had much control over Gollum's mind even without the will of Sauron calling to it. I think Gollum would have felt an undeniable urge to dwell in the caves around Mordor and would have met and made an alliance with Shelob in this timeline as well. Sauron being amused at the thought of their companionship breeds them together to make a truly monstrous race to serve him forever. Happy Halloween.

  • @kreliann
    @kreliann 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think you missed out that Sauron would have also tried to aproach Durin's Bane, he being another Maiar, and an old comrade of Morgoths forces

  • @achyuthanil1641
    @achyuthanil1641 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow, your gollum impression is superb

  • @JayBrodson
    @JayBrodson 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic. Thank you for making this.

  • @Chrysaetos11
    @Chrysaetos11 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great stuff, but needs a Part II ;)

  • @davidknez1789
    @davidknez1789 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you very much for uploading new videos. I really enjoy to listen to your videos and really thank you for taking time for us, to share your knowladge about middle earth with us. :)

  • @nicoctane1669
    @nicoctane1669 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I say you should make a part 2 of this theory explaining how it ends.

  • @freddydyar113
    @freddydyar113 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Do a part two, where the scattered remains of the free people still defeat Sauron in a different way...

  • @bartekwesoowski1113
    @bartekwesoowski1113 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    That theory actually seems to be pretty accurate

  • @nathanbrown34
    @nathanbrown34 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love your channel man, you deserve so many more subscribers. Keep it up! Any chance of a video about what happened to Gollum* if he kept the ring?

  • @mcintma2
    @mcintma2 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great work! I don't see Smaug as that kind of 'conqueror', more of a monster/beast that seeks to destroy and claim treasure out of spite and greed, then sleep for a year or 100 ... not much interested in plans or politics, or the machinations of Maiar. Sauron would surely have 'used' Smaug given the chance, in a specific situation or two, via manipulation of the dragon's simple and base desires - JMHO

  • @bilbobagshot8891
    @bilbobagshot8891 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for making this.

  • @lukec2004
    @lukec2004 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    7:17
    It was...
    Tom Bombandil

  • @-SayWhatAgainMF-
    @-SayWhatAgainMF- 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    00:25 anime Bilbo. An anime series on LOTR would be crazy. Does such series exist?
    Thats a great Gandalf voice by the way

    • @jeffburnham6611
      @jeffburnham6611 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      The original cartoon appeared in 1977.

  • @jockeb2651
    @jockeb2651 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow this channel grows as hell!