Hypothetical scenario: Before Switzerland: Income: 30 Cost of Living: 10 Income after Cost of Living: 20 After Switzerland (double): Income: 60 Cost of Living: 20 Income after Cost of Living: 40 Even if both income and cost of living doubled, your income after cost of living will still be doubled. Thus, savings rate doesn't matter much as long as you save more (amount).
I think it is a great country regardless of what kind of job you do. I do a bit of python programming myself and translation on the side, but I could perfectly do a cleaning job and still enjoy it when there's a reasonable income for the task, great working philosophy and quality of life all around.
I am (was) a software developer living in Switzerland for 30 years. Yes, the salaries are high and taxes quite low, but do not include health insurance or day care costs for children, which can be substantial for a family. If you are negociating to come here, multiply x2 what you thing you will need.
You are perfectly right, RKW. Day care is expensive. But if you do the math right, it will pay off since the tax benefits you have in Switzerland are drastic over some other European countries. You can literally save thousands each month in the higher income bracket over Germany for example, freeing up money for day care. Keep in mind that I am also not saying that Switzerland is perfect for every case. There are many other beautiful and interesting countries in the world as well that can make sense for different people.
Hi Raphael, very correct informations about the positives living in switzerland. You forgot to mention the sheer beauty of the swiss nature, purity of air and water, epic scenery, lush flora and fauna. You can go to Ticino , Como or Milan over the weekend or up the Alps for a Ski session, it is all very short distance. You are right in the middle of Europe, ideal location for travel abroad. There is a common sense for quality in every aspect of daily life, and swiss people take care about that with passion. I lived for 7 years in Zürich area and missing it very much after moving back to germany. I love switzerland.
Thanks for that comment, Jan! I totally agree. Switzerland is really beautiful indeed! I think what you mentioned about being in the center of Europe can also be seen as a benefit in the cultural sense. You are basically forced to deal with 3-4 languages in one country preparing you quite well to travel to the neighboring countries and beyond (since French is spoken in so many countries in the world). I am curious to hear what made you move back to Germany in case you want to share it.
I also lived in Germany and live in Switzerland now. I like to live here. But I am also happy to visit Germany every time I go there. If you are undecided, go and visit both countries for several weeks to get your own impression.
Yep, first hand on-site experience is always recommended. Give it at least a couple of weeks. In less than that your impression will always be distorted towards the positive or negative.
Haha yes. Maybe I should try and do a video where I compare Switzerland to some non-European countries. It's a bit hard for me though since I have only traveled to Latin America and Asia so far. I guess it could try and compare Switzerland to the US since I actually lived there for a little bit when I was still studying.
I have been living in Switzerland for the past 7 years but plan to move out now as a software engineer. In general, I agree with all that the author said about the life quality in this country (except may be the food quality/price ratio, compared to neighbouring Italy and France). Perhaps, I would give a few thoughts for those who plan to come here and progress! as a software engineer (or make best of their CS degree). 1. Switzerland is a small country. Therefore, there is just not so many exciting places to work here. If you're not lucky/qualified to get into one of the American companies represented mostly in Zurich (Google/NVidia/Amazon/IBM/Apple/etc) or one the top research institutions (EPFL/ETHZ), you are likely to end up coding a coffee machine for Nestle, work for a bank or a small start-up. Also, many companies here try to outsource SWE to other countries with lesser cost of living. 2. Switzerland is not great in SWE. Switzerland excels in many industries, i.e. pharmacy / food / precise manufacturing / civil and mechanical engineering. However, it is not the place you think about when hearing about SWE. Try to think about global impactful software products/companies made in Switzerland, I know a few but it's much much fewer than in the US, Germany or UK, for instance. 3. Many industries are absent in Switzerland: automotive, robotics (despite having ETH), aerospace (despite having RUAG), etc. So if you plan to work in one of these industries, think twice. Otherwise, I totally recommend this country for work and life.
Thanks to make out of box topic cost of living & salary & savings for those who want to settle in Switzerland dream country for Asian. My childhood friend shifted to Switzerland last week as his son & daughter in law got the job . It's really pleasing to hear you more on food & politics in Switzerland and trains timing extra when you compare with Germany trains. Sound nice one request to you make one video giving with Switzerland Asian country comparision on the same thumbnail
Hi Rajama! Yes, some videos on these topics are coming. Congrats to your in laws for landing the job in Switzerland, it is the start of an amazing journey and the dream for many. Do you have anything in mind to compare in particular between Switzerland and Asian countries (which countries are you thinking of?)?
I live in Switzerland for 13 years now. Moved also from Germany and was thrown from German school directly to the Swiss working world, so to speak. The taxes you pay here in contrast to German taxes are actually a joke. For other countries the contrast might not be that obvious. However, the amount of taxes, you pay, depends on your citizenship and residence permit. "Proper" swiss taxes are only paid if you have a settlement permit (C permit) or swiss citizenship where you file a tax return every year. Otherwise your employer deducts a so called "tax at source" from your salary. A note on the savings, you can gain: This works out very well, if you live alone and/or are not married and also have no children. Not married couples pay less taxes than married ones (same income). If you have very young children and you want them to go to the kindergarten 5 times a week, you can pump pretty much all your savings into the kindergarten. How much, depends heavily on the kindergarten. The amount varies between 500.- and almost 2'500.- a month. In this regard Switzerland is a very family unfriendly country. And also keep in mind that health insurance is much more expensive than in other european countries. If you chose a not 100% fitting insurance police for yourself (minimal monthly fee, but need for frequent doctor check ups) you might end up paying every year 2'500.- Travelling can get also very expensive. It sounds like a perfect country at first glance. It might very well be for many people. But please read the official info pages regarding taxes, insurance, travel, etc. so you don't end up in unfortunate situations, like I did, because I simply wasn't aware of this stuff. This is also true for many Swiss people, who grew up here, btw.
Hey Trixt0r! Thanks for your explanations. A few things are not quite accurate though: The amount of taxes you pay is *independent* of your citizenship. Since 2021, you can and often should do an NOV, meaning you are taxed like any Swiss person, even with a B permit. It's mandatory for the Säule 3a deduction anyways. I wrote about this in more detail here: www.38countries.com/ch/tax-declarations-in-switzerland-for-expats Health insurance is quite expensive in some other European countries. I paid more for health insurance in Germany before moving to Switzerland which is surprising since Switzerland is generally a more expensive country. Some of my friends in Germany paid up to 700 EUR per month into the government plan. Paying 200-300 CHF per month for health insurance by contrast is a bargain. Many doctor visits can be combined with a visit to another European country since they are not an emergency. So you can combine exploring Europe with optimizing your health care cost. Travel is not super expensive either IMO. Flights from Zurich to USA or Asia are often less expensive than the same flight from Munich or Frankfurt due to different taxation of such flights. I agree with you that Switzerland is not perfect though and am thankful for your explanations. They show us that it is important to do the specific research and math in each individual case and that Switzerland is not the perfect country for everyone.
@@38countries Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification. Regarding travel I meant ticket prices for trains. If you don't have Halbtax or GA it can get pretty expensive. Everyone has a personal definition of expensive 😁 Have a nice day!
@@38countries You are comparing apples with oranges...the public German health insurance might be more expensive (for rich people, not for people on low income, which are also part of society you know?), but it has no deductible, and covers some basic tooth coverage. It also covers your kids and your wife is she doesn't work. Also if you are an employee (as most people are actually), half of it is paid by your employer. That "cheap" Swiss insurance has an high deductible, and covers only you, and is fully paid by you (very few companies offer as a benefit to cover the health insurance costs). You probably also are restricted on which doctors you can visit if you need to, unlike the public German health insurance. If you think that being "forced" to travel to another European country to lower your health expenses is fun or intelligent, I'm sorry for you...I don't want to have to take a damn plane or train, and holidays from work, just to see a doctor. What if I need to see a doctor periodically due to some therapy?
@Yoda You are really misrepresenting facts here, Yoda. I am not rich, neither were my parents. I come from a lower middle class family and would not consider myself rich these days. Normal middle class people in Germany (somebody who makes net 40K or 50K a year is definitely not rich when rent alone is like 25K per year) pay hundreds of Euros each month into health insurance in Germany. And then not everything is covered. I was under the public plan in Germany and often had to pay extra for all sorts of things because they would not be covered under the public plan. I am by no means talking about plastic surgery or any of that stuff. Try to get simple braces as a teenager in Germany. Guess what? My parents had to pay about 1000 Euros extra and that was many years ago and it was not some fancy special solution. It was the normal ugly braces. Same applies if you go to a hospital and have a more serious thing. If you want proper care, everything costs extra. You often have to pay extra because again the public plan does not cover everything while you and your employer still pay so much into the system. "You probably also are restricted on which doctors you can visit if you need to" - again, a misrepresentation. Under the default plan you are not restricted in Switzerland.
Thanks for making video on this topic. Even I want to move to Switzerland and I am into IT as Data Scientist. More videos on how to find jobs from home-country or exact detailed steps for interview related videos will be helpful. Thanks.
After living in California for a long time and moving back to Switzerland I would say food quality is mixed. You can buy good groceries but you can almost not get decent tomatoes in Switzerland compared to CA, if you have the means. No doubt, bread is better in Switzerland. But the quality and the creativity of the average, not cheap, restaurants in Switzerland does leave a lot do be desired for in my opinion. Might be different if you come from Germany.
As a dev living in Brazil and making about 140k usd a year working for a US company, I'm mostly stuck here if I think only about savings. There's no way I'll be able to save more living in Europe. :(
Sounds like you already achieved a great ratio of income to cost of living. Or am I underestimating the costs of Brazil? Also us salaries quickly go beyond European salaries. Making more than 100k € as a dev in Germany is not easy for example.
Well, maybe. But are you putting taxes into your equation as well? And of course, money is not the only factor. I am not an expert on Brazil, but I can say that there are a lot of Brazilians in Switzerland.
Can wait to do that. By 2026 i'll finish my grad here in Brazil. By 2028 or 29 I hope I have enough experience in order to get hired by a swiss company. And of course, doing that holding a italian citizenship 🙏 and fluent in german. By the way, what do you think about network engineer jobs over there? I kinda like them because the subjects are so hard and require complex certifications that i think people might get away because it's more difficult than developing some App. Otherwise, I'm having android App development this semester and i find it sooooo cool that i have searched some mobile dev jobs and they pay really good too!
Can’t really judge how complex network engineering is vs mobile app development because I know too little about the former. But generally the more complex and advanced the better. Switzerland is optimal for really advanced and complex jobs while some simpler things often get outsourced to other countries. So keep going and specializing and keep in mind that you can always start remote before moving to Switzerland.
Very good point. This makes saving over time a bit easier. In most European countries you are taxed on price gains over investments, in Switzerland you typically are not as an individual.
My savings rate went from 60% to 10% after emigrating to a country with about 2X living cost, but 4X property cost, and living in a house 40% the size of my old one... so...
great video! im helping my friend do a write up on his future and all that so im really looking at options in europe, which would be a great improvement over where he is now.
You brought so many good points! Alas, I cannot do such thing bc the color of my skin would make me stand out. Makes me wanna cry sometimes to miss out on things like that
We have people of all colors in Switzerland, so maybe you worry too much? I think on a European level there are worse countries in that regard. Switzerland has one of the highest percentages of foreign born population in Europe, higher than all of its neighbors.
Depends on your citizenship. For EU/EFTA it's automatic. For other citizens, it's much harder. You'd need to be a specialist, manager or so to get a visa sponsored. Then again many software devs count as such specialists because the Swiss market is a bit dried out in some areas.
Lol. I live in Slovakia working as a developer for a German company. And we make half of what they make in Germany - And I think I have it pretty good. But here we also pay only 0.40eur for beer :) But as a German are you not basically a local in Switzerland?
Hi @rkucbel! Certainly nothing wrong if you are happy where you are right now :-) (Un)fortunately, Germans are not locals in Switzerland because the culture and politics is very different between Switzerland and Germany and so is the language. Germans typically do not understand Swiss German. If Switzerland and Germany were the same it would not have made any sense for me to move to Switzerland in the first place. Regarding the financial discussion you were alluding to: Imagine you'd work a couple of years in Switzerland to save lots of money and then you go back to Slovakia. You can probably buy a nice house or good part of it with the savings you accumulated. I really liked Bratislava btw where I visited last year!
Switzerland is indeed a great country. The biggest downside IMHO is the astronomical house prices in e.g. Zürich canton. Owning your own house is one of the most important things for financial freedom and quality of life.
Since the savings rate is much a factor higher it might make sense to work in switzerland for some years and pay rent and with your savings you can buy a house in your home country like Germany
Don't buy a house in Zürich then. Switzerland has 25 more cantons some of which have significantly lower house prices. I made another video about this btw.
Correct, our generation won't stay in the same country their whole lives anyways. Even in Switzerland you can become a Swiss citizen after 10-12 years in case your previous passport is not so valuable. And then you could move on to another country if you can't find an affordable house in Switzerland. Nothing wrong with that IMO, there is a country for every year/decade of your life.
Thank you for your amazing video! We're currently thinking of moving to Switzerland from Germany and considering all the factors incl prices, quality of living etc. So your video is very helpful. Could you confirm the prices for Kitas, are they really that insanely high?
Yes, taking care of a child requires a lot of time if you do it yourself, so accordingly it will cost a lot of money for somebody else to take that task over from you. But the math is really simple here. The average salary in Zurich is around 8'500 CHF per month. Times two it's 17K per month or 204K p.a. gross salary per household. With that household income you can afford to pay around 3K p.m. for daycare, approx. 17% of your combined gross salary. It's kind of like a 17% tax to get free child care. If you do not meet those numbers, it makes more sense financially to not outsource child care and instead do it "inhouse".
Hi Raphael , thank you so much for creating this video , your content is always so informative , I'm from portugal and I am still ending my computer science degree , and I'm very interested to move to Switzerland , do you think not knowing german is a big barrier to find a job as software developer? Keep up the great work!
Thanks Marcelo, glad to hear that! I think you can certainly get started in Switzerland without German. It's even hard for most Germans because Swiss German is so different from "normal" German. A lot of expats don't learn German for a few years. I do recommend to put in the effort though once you have arrived. Switzerland has a bit of an issue of integrating people. If you don't speak the local language it's near impossible to make local friends, you would end up mainly with other expats. Which is probably still not too bad since there are so many in Zürich, Zug, Geneva or Basel, but you miss out on a lot of the culture and local events. Depending on how much you focus on it, you could become fluent within a year once you have arrived. Switzerland is generally popular among the Portuguese as an immigration country.
@@38countriesHey thanks for the help , yeah definitely very popular choice among the portuguese , I was thinking about to start learn german but thanks to your guidance I will focus more on improving my skills as software developer
Hi Raphael, very informative video! I'm a web and mobile developer from Bosnia. I have a little over 1 year of working experience. I mostly developed in React Native, but I also worked with Angular/Typescript. What are the chances of moving to Switzerland in such a situation? On the other hand, what is the chance of a remote position for a Swiss software company? P.S. Ich habe auch sehr gute Deutschkenntnisse.
After Covid most companies offer remote work/home office, because they were forced to offer their employees such an option. I have colleagues at work, who don't live in Switzerland, but are 100% involved in the daily business of the company.
Hi, after completing a Master's in Germany (in parallel working at DFKI), would you recommend starting a Junior Developer journey in Germany first or in Switzerland?
From a financial perspective I probably makes more sense to go to Switzerland straight away as soon as you have a job offer. In case you want to work a bit longer where you currently are to finish an important milestone, it might be better for your career to first stay there for a while to finish whatever you are busy with even if it will lead to less money. But then again don't wait too long or otherwise the move will never happen.
Hi Raphael, I've been planning to move to Switzerland for almost a year now. I'm currently studying cyber security in Germany, and I was wondering if it's hard to get your first job in Switzerland straight after university, or would it be better to start the first job in your home country to gain some experience first?
Hi Samuel Backof! I think it's a matter of taste. It may be a bit easier for you to get a job in Germany first, but financially it will probably not pay off in the long run to do so. Esp. if you already know that you want to live in Switzerland or at least try it out, I would not delay it and go for it straight away.
Hello, dear I'm a student of Automobile. Now I'm 2rd year but next year my automobile diploma will be completed ,bz Automobile and diesel technology diploma range is three year's. Just I want to say all who read this comment, I need job any country after completion my diploma. Starting sellry no matter but if you give me some training like 3month at least and give me visa then I'm agree for work. if work is contract base then also I'm agree. Kindly reply me { thanks for all }
Hi Raphael, I’m from Brazil living in UK, the salaries here for software developer are low and the taxes are high, left me almost nothing to save due to the cost of living. How hard do you think to get a remote job in Switzerland with only english? I’m EU national so It won’t need any visa sponsorship. Thanks for the content, very rich in information and details!
Hi Alicio! Great question. The best is always trying. I actually recommend to generally be careful with software dev jobs that require German in any case since these companies tend to be a bit more traditional and you can't do the cool stuff in traditional companies. But I am sure somebody would disagree on this and say "oh no no, we need to stick to the German language for another million years". Your best bet is probably with startups and simply applying can never hurt, even with bigger companies. They might interview and accept you even though they had something different in mind. I am planning to build a group of mobile devs (iOS and Android) who want to work remotely for Swiss companies or maybe even collaborate with myself on some projects. If this is interesting to you, please sign up for the "How To Move to Switzerland" beta or my Facebook group: 38countries.com/ch/how-to-move-to-switzerland facebook.com/groups/38countries/
Thanks Raphael, that’s very helpful. I see what you meant about that, that’s happens everywhere, unfortunately traditional companies tend to be narrow minded and stick to ice age ways. I’ve applied to some startups already and some of them have contacted me for initials interviews this week, super excited 😃 Thanks for the invitation, I’ve sent the request already.
@@alicioromoli2570 Yes, with corporates and startups it's always a difficult struggle. Startups on the one hand don't have too much money and offer very little job security. Corporates on the other hand often have less interesting tasks for you and sometimes can't accommodate you because of all sorts of rules. So you typically need to find some middle ground and I recommend to talk to both groups but also to medium sized companies who are sometimes the best of both worlds. Never forget that the best jobs/projects typically come where you don't expect them while very promising ones often turn sour.
Hey Alicio! I recently wrote an article about job platforms: www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland Would be curious to hear if this helps you to find a fully remote job in Switzerland. Please let me know about any additional questions on that topic.
You left the out the most important part: an analysis of the dating market. All these things mean nothing if as a man it is too difficult to obtain a decent woman for dating/marriage.
Yeah I guess now it's too late for me to really analyze the dating market. From my past experience I can tell you though that the dating market is not very different from Switzerland's neighboring countries Germany, Austria, France and Italy. Like most of Europe, Switzerland features a 50% female population in general, meaning that the other 50% of the population is male as in DNA carries a Y chromosome. So I don't see any reason why finding a partner in Switzerland should be substantially more difficult or different than in the rest of Central/Western Europe.
I can't see the benefit of moving to Switzerland, why leave a tax free jurisdiction to pay tax in Switzerland and why save when I can invest without capital gains tax. I agree is better than France, Germany, UK but it is no where at all competitive compared to tax free jurisdictions.
First of all, there are not many if any tax-free jurisdictions with a decent quality of life. If you look at the HDI Top 20, you will find that many of them have very high taxes and none of them are even close to zero-tax jurisdictions. It does not become much better if you take a different ranking. The next thing is that it's really hard to make a lot of money when living in a "tax-free" jurisdiction. So many coaches on the internet want to sell you this dream, but the reality is that a lot of their followers/customers end up making like 30K per year without paying taxes where really they could make much more money after taxes under a different type of arrangement. If you want to become rich, get VC and build the next unicorn. Saving on taxes alone will never make you rich. On the contrary, it will often limit you to into selling hot air.
long story short, i'm portuguese, my gf is from a village in zurich, we live in london and been together for 8 years now. we plan on moving to either zug or zurich (she has not decided yet) at the end of this year. My German is bellow A level, how difficult do you reckon that it will be for me to continue working as full stack eng ? I suppose that my question is regarding if it would be easy to find work speaking in english for the time being
Hi SixScriptsUnder! My article can probably answer that question: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german. And I will also release a video on that topic in a few days.
I live close to Stuttgart and work as a Software Engineer and make 180k Euros gross a year and live in a debt-free self owned apartment. I dont think I can save more money in a month by moving to Switzerland ? I really would need to earn smt like 250k CHF annual to make it for me financally worthwhile but this is quite difficult to achieve. I dont want to grind leetcode to get into Google Zurich or Meta after already having a million net worth already. All other Swiss companies do not seem to cross 200k CHF annual gross line for software developers and that amount I can already make in cheap Germany. Any advice?
Not possible to say in general. On the hand, you already have a very high salary for German standards. It is also not really possible to say whether you could have a higher income in e.g. Zurich vs Stuttgart just from moving without knowing more about your particular role. It might be higher in Zurich, but it could even be lower because sometimes that particular skill set is highly in demand in your current city Stuttgart but not in Zurich. Generally in your level of income and also net worth, it is more interesting to save on taxes than having a higher salary. You could hypothetically pay much less income tax and capital gains tax (since in CH there are no capital gains taxes on typical private investments within certain limits) therefore improving your annual savings bottom line even if your gross salary stays the same and your cost of living goes up. Tax savings can sometimes overcompensate higher cost of living between "cheaper" countries and Switzerland, effectively making Switzerland the cheaper country. If you are interested, this might be a case for a 1:1 consultation with me, let me know. The information contained herein is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal, tax or immigration advice. We recommend consulting with a qualified professional for guidance specific to your situation. Viewers should seek professional advice before making any decisions or taking any actions based on the information presented. 38Countries is not liable for any losses or damages arising from the use of this channel or the information presented. By accessing and using the information presented on this channel, you acknowledge and agree to this disclaimer.
This is a really weird video. The guy is german and he is inviting everyone to Switzerland??? It's like if I invited people to my neighbours' house without asking him. I think Raphael forgot to mention a few downsides of living in Switzerland: As well as the high cost of living: - Difficulty to get a work permit - Difficulty to find a job if you don't speak the language - Hard to make friends for expats - Very hard to find a nice flat in big towns like Zurich or Geneva - Very expensive day-care for parents
Why you should not move to Zürich or Geneva as an expat: www.38countries.com/ch/why-you-should-not-move-to-zuerich-or-geneva Do you need to learn German to find a job as a software developer in Switzerland: th-cam.com/video/5WqHEdohQAM/w-d-xo.html
Hi Saurav! Have you tried out my suggestions in www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland ? Would be curious to hear your feedback if it helps.
Hi Raphael, thanks for sharing! What about language, is it real to find a job w.o. german/french knowledge? I check time to time IT positions in Switzerland via glassdoor, 80% requires to have some knowledge of german. Do people speak english there, do you have work mates who comunicate in english only, how common it is? Btw, your english is pretty impressive.
Hi Tigly! I would at first avoid those jobs that require German. First of all, I don't recommend to delay your move to try and learn German beforehand. It makes more sense to learn that in the country that actually speaks German with real speaker around you every day. If you do that from somewhere else, you are probably never gonna get there and then you will never make the move. Second, and here it is much more my personal and somewhat radical opinion: The language of IT is English. And I am saying that as a native German speaker. It's just the reality. Now if a company stubbornly requires fluent German for a software dev job, it is an indicator that this company/team is a bit more on the conservative side and has not accepted the reality yet that you as a company are limiting yourself too much in hiring the best and brightest if fluency is your filter upfront. I do recommend to learn German quickly (i.e. within 3-12 months of arrival) once you are in Switzerland to integrate into society, make non-expat local friends etc. Once you are surrounded by German speakers it's quite doable in my opinion. Even more on the whole language topic in Switzerland: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german
Hi raphael, Im currently living in turkey and im a university student and learning frontend.. would it be possible to find a remote software engineer internship during my university year with no experience, were i would work for an international company but from my hometown turkey?
Hi Lucas! This is probably possible but I would generally not recommend to do a fully remote internship. It's more exciting and will give you more learning potential to do an internship combined with cultural immersion, so you'd need to be in the same country more or less. I have never really looked into internships in Switzerland, but I would just give it a try. There is enough of a shortage of talent in software engineering in general, so some company might be able to sponsor a visa. Or you could of course start with another European country, e.g. one of Switzerland's neighbors.
Hi Raphael, I found your channel on my feed and it hits right on the spot of my main question. I'm doing a 4month bootcamp next month (one of the top bootcamps at coursereport , switchup, etc) and I was wondering if it his valid in switzerland? I've looked in LinkedIn and there's a lot of company's not asking for a degree. Do you think it's doable to find a job? I'm not looking into big company's or corporates. I feel like the startup are more suited for me. I live in Switzerland btw but in the French part, I speak fluent French and English.
Hi Paulo, really depends on the company. Some do require formal stuff like degrees, many are not that strict. I would say that Switzerland is a little more focussed on your actual skills, work experience etc., anything that enables you to develop software, than some other countries in Europe. Don't worry if you not every company invites you for an interview. Some companies also post jobs where there is no urgent need to hire and then they have unrealistic expectations. Don't be fooled by such job ads that will easily lead to rejection that it would be your fault. So overall a bootcamp alone is not always enough by itself but it is a start, esp. if applying only for a junior role. You can probably find a company that is desperate enough to get you started and then you just take it from there.
nice video Raphael, what about buying a house? I heard that it is too expensive buying house there. Even many local people prefer to buy a house in neighbor countries. What do you think about it?
Yes, houses are expensive in a few parts of Switzerland, but not everywhere. My advice is always: Don't just move to Zürich or Geneva because everyone else does. Check out my other video on that topic: Why finding a place to live in Switzerland is so difficult: th-cam.com/video/wygtd__11cs/w-d-xo.html And my blog article: Why you should not move to Zürich or Geneva as an expat: www.38countries.com/ch/why-you-should-not-move-to-zuerich-or-geneva
@@38countries Hi Raphael, yes, thanks for the reply and for the advice. I read your blog. It's pretty interesting, thanks. I will take that as very good advance. Cheers, Ivan.
Hi Raphael, Thanks for your video. I am looking for a Full stack development job. I am studying in Germany. How hard is the Swiss German language requirement for a software development job?
Hi Dhananjay! Great question. People moving to Switzerland often fear the "language". I wrote an article about this a while ago: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german For those who don't know what we are talking about: Swiss German and its many dialects is very different from Standard High German (as spoken mostly in Germany). I often like to compare it to Dutch vs. German. If you know one, you will have a relatively easy time to learn the other, but it does not come for free. I think for devs it is not really an issue. You can get away with speaking only English for years in the bigger cities and its surroundings in Zurich, Zug, Geneva, Basel. If you speak and understand Standard German even better. Over time you can then get into understanding Swiss German. Most German native speakers learn to understand Swiss German very well within 3-12 months without putting too much conscious effort into it, simply through every day's interactions. Some jobs in more conservative companies do require that you speak Standard or Swiss German quite well but I would say that in software development these are only a subset. It is limiting your job search, but I think that limitation is not too bad and not really a factor to be afraid of moving to Switzerland.
It varies a lot. The most important local languages are German and French and then there is also Italian. Traditional companies like banks, insurance companies and many small and medium enterprises often do require the local language. But multinational companies often don't since their main language often is English anyways.
It's a small population and hence a small market, so opportunities are also scarce, I've tried to find one for Mobile development, however there were not much listings I could find...
Funny that you say that. The employer side in Switzerland is always complaining that “the Swiss IT market is dried out” and that they can’t find anyone who lives in Switzerland for their jobs.
hi :) please please I need your answer.. Now I'm in London and I'm learrning development as self taught. I'd like too move to switzerland to work as developer in a year. Can I ask you please if there is any possibility to find a job there, if i have no degree in computer and if I dont speake German or france? Which programming languagges are most in demand? I learned forntend: HTML CSS JAVASCRIPT and I'm moving to REACT and then I'm gonna do a bootcamp in london for software engeneering using PYTHON SQL... I speak Italian English and arabic. thank you so much
Really depends on your skill. Without a degree it can be difficult unless you are incredibly good esp if you are not an EU citizen. It’s possible if you specialize and become an expert.
I wouldn't move to Switzerland anymore. With AI Software can be produced cheaper and better elsewhere so devs will have to find a new Job soon in Switzerland
Have you even tried ChatGPT at all? I use it every day for software dev and other writing tasks. More than half of it is complete bogus. Beyond that: Do you really believe that AI will develop and maintain itself on its own next year? Completely unrealistic IMO.
@@38countries yeah. It's not good now, it won't substitute next year but there's good chance that people fire a lot of in-house devs because of increased productivity. Outsourcing may even actually become a good option, since AI can help produce well written and maintainable code
I don't know. I use GPT almost every day. At least half of it is unusable. Often when I ask something about iOS, the result is based on some super outdated StackOverflow answers and the code won't really work anymore. It is at best a better search engine so far. So I like using it instead of Google, but it won't really do most of the work for me.
@@38countries yeah I'm not worried about the state of AI now. I'm worried about Github announcing that they want their Copilot to be able to write entire programs. Will they achieve it while I still work? That is yet to be seen. But it already being a better Google is a productivity boost. Studies say that people who use AI have 53% - 56% productivity boost.
Hi Raphael could I plz ask you? I am a german developer and got a Job in switzerland with 150k yearly salary, I feel the salary is a little bit high regarding my skills and experience and I am worrying about that.. how is the work level there? Harder than in germany ?
Hey G0Th!Qu0! Sorry for the slow replies these days. Got a bit overwhelmed with the many comments to this video, but am glad about the interest. 150K is a decent salary for a senior or team lead dev, depending on the technology. Generally, it's work hard, play hard, more than in Germany, but probably less extreme than the US.
@@38countries normally I'm not that lucky guy, maybe this time. I'm thinking about it since I have a family and it is not easy to move and lose the job and then to go back
Hi G0Th!Qu0, I understand that taking a new job abroad when you have a family to support can be risky, but there are ways to mitigate that risk. Firstly, you can negotiate the best possible salary and benefits package, ensuring that you're financially secure before making the move. Additionally, you could keep the door open to your old role and potentially return if the new role doesn't work out as you anticipate. It's also worth mentioning that Switzerland has a strong social safety net and provides assistance to those who lose their jobs, including unemployment insurance and job placement services.
Hi Raphael! Thank you so much for this such informative video. I'm a software developer as well and I am from the Philippines trying my luck to apply and work abroad. How can I connect with you? I have some inquiries if you don't mind. I'm very interested visting and working in switzerland huhu
Hey Raphael ! I am pursuing diploma ( pre bachelors after 10th grade ) in computer science 2nd year and I want to move to Switzerland for my bachelor's in 2025 ! What do you think I shall focus more on ? I personally have interest in DevOps/Cloud And Data Science/Machine Learning But From Your Experience and Knowledge What Shall I Specialise in to easily find jobs in Switzerland ?
All of what you mentioned is sufficiently good to find a great dev job in Switzerland. I see these roles very often on LinkedIn. Switzerland is small (almost 9M people, similar to Austria, Portugal etc.), but not tiny like Monaco or Liechtenstein. So pick whatever you think is most fun. ... and I just started the beta of my "How to Move to Switzerland" program. While in beta, you can sign up for free: 38countries.com/ch/how-to-move-to-switzerland Also don't forget to check out my article about job platforms: www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland
Depends on many factors. If you are looking for VC, the US may be better. But then again getting a visa for the US is difficult for EU citizens while EU citizens don't need one for Switzerland, but might find the high quality of living in Switzerland combined with investment from the US plus a sales office in the US plus maybe a few R&D offices through the EU a good combo. I know that convincing my GF to move to the US with its gun issues and so many people who can't even agree on basic scientific facts is probably harder than it was to get her to Switzerland :-D
Highly depends on your tech stack. For e.g. Java, Golang, Python backend stuff as well as Swift, Kotlin mobile apps around 120-160K. It can be more depending on how specialized you are in a certain framework or product and reach around 200K. Below that I would try and find a better role before moving.
@@38countries I've sent my resume for over 5 companies, but as soon as they know I'm from Iran, they reject me. Also, moving money to Iran has some serious considerations, because of sanctions. If you have time, I can send you my resume, also I will be thankful for a small online talk if you have time.
Watched the first 2 minutes. This doesn't seem to apply to someone who is living in the Philippines like me who could have a developer salary from Silicon Valley, where I'm from.
Maybe, but the Philippines don't score so well on quality of life, life expectancy etc. So even if you won't make more money, a move to a more developed country could be worth a consideration.
3 months rent is the usual deposit which is less than one month's salary. But yes, you always need a good buffer of savings before moving to any country since there will be many such instances where you have to make a deposit or need a safety buffer for unexpected circumstances.
i would say PORTUGAL is way better cost of leaving much less expensive, better temperature all-year weather, specially if you are developing for crypto, its a no brainer.
Spent a month in Lisbon during winter. It was too cold for me. Portugal seems not equipped to handle winter. Plus taxes are much higher in Portugal and hard to make much money there unless you are a global entrepreneur in which case the higher taxes tend to make it not so attractive. But I am sure that below 50K of income/profit Portugal can be very attractive if you like the sea.
I know i know most ppl dont thing about it #BUT the payment in the retirement in switzerland is waaaaaaaaaay better then in most europe countries. German ppl need more and more to work at least a bit in their retirement. The reason why i dont want to go to switzerland is, that the ppl their don't like foreigners AT ALL... They will let you feel that week for week. Not all, but enough that u will feel uncomfortable.
Yeah, saving for retirement is quite broken in many European countries. Which is said I think, because decent solutions exist, experts have been proposing some for many years now, but "nothing ever happens". I agree that Switzerland is better, but the Swiss AHV will also crash one day. These intergenerational systems can never work IMO and should be banned for good in OECD if it were for me. Which is why it's good that Switzerland has the Pensionskasse that you were probably alluding to on top of AHV and also the Säule 3a. Regarding being welcome or not as an immigrant I can only say that you won't find a country where there is no discrimination against immigrants / expats. If you look at the numbers, Switzerland actually has a very high percentage of immigrants vs. Swiss nationals. Switzerland has about 28% foreigners, Germany only 18, UK 14, France 13, even the US "the immigrant country" only about 15%. In other words: Switzerland is one of the top immigrant countries in Europe if you filter out tiny countries like Liechtenstein, Monaco or Andorra and Luxembourg who have much higher percentages of foreigners but are obvious anomalies due to their low population size. In practice, I have not felt much discrimination against myself in Switzerland so far. Germany was worse for me. I can tell you that growing up as a clever kid in Germany is often not a pleasant experience at all. But yeah, I acknowledge that I might be living in a bubble and that my personal experience is possibly not representative esp. for people who work in other industries than software engineering.
@@38countries Wow u put effort in that answer, thanks^^ Interesting insight. I was not aware of the high percentage of foreigners. Possibly explains the reason why they do not like foreigners haha. Just a little joke 😋
Sounds great, but most of immigrants were caught by an amazing Swiss public image as a country. However, the reality is different hence people leaving Switzerland in a few years.
Yeah, well, that happens. No country is perfect and I don't think that you have to stay in a country for life. There is nothing wrong with coming to Switzerland for e.g. 5 years and then going to another country just like you won't work for the same company your whole life.
Definitely harder. You'd need to be a specialist, manager or so to get a visa sponsored. Then again many software devs count as such specialists because the Swiss market is a bit dried out in some areas.
In some cases yes, but often no. Taxes in Germany are very high, so often you have to actually move to Switzerland to double your salary. Highly depends on all your circumstances and where specifically you would be living in both countries when comparing numbers.
Hello, dear I'm a student of Automobile. Now I'm 2rd year but next year my automobile diploma will be completed ,bz Automobile and diesel technology diploma range is three year's. Just I want to say all who read this comment, I need job any country after completion my diploma. Starting sellry no matter but if you give me some training like 3month at least and give me visa then I'm agree for work. if work is contract base then also I'm agree. Kindly reply me { thanks for all }
Please don't spread bullshit to the people like that. No. Salaries in Switzerland are not that good. Of course, if you have no life and no family, you could get the impression that you have something left at the end of the month. Things get a lot more complicated if you have a family with younger kids. So: ok for young people finding no jobs and spealing fluently french or german (no chance if you speak italian).
I would argue that there was any deliberate BS in the video. The well known issue you are talking about is most of immigrant couples/families go from two incomes to one because of partner not able to find a job unless in IT industry. Switzerland is very conservative and nationalist country, so “own” people are preferred for hire rather than auslanders.
If your salary in Switzerland is not that good, you may be in the wrong country or in the wrong job. Don't take this personally please. I was doing it wrong in the beginning and I know a few more who are struggling to get this right. But it's not a problem of the country. A country is a tool to achieve a purpose and if you are using it wrong, or the wrong tool in the first place, it's not the tools fault. Also not everyone is the same person. A friend of mine decided not to have kids. But he is happily married and has a life. Not everyone needs kids to be happy. You are of course right that Switzerland will not be the ideal country for some people. And yes, kids can cost you a fortune in Switzerland, but once again, you can make a fortune of money to pay for it and still have plenty left at the end of the month for savings. Don't forget that Switzerland is basically made for highly qualified and specialized people who want to work a lot, have a high salary and need reliable infrastructure for doing just that. Your skill set needs to be rare enough and your negotiation skills need to be good enough. Immigrants sometimes do not know what they are worth, so they undersell themselves. And then yes, the whole calculation might be off at the end of the month. But once again, not the country's fault. My recommendation is typically that you should not move to Switzerland unless your annual salary is at least 120K CHF as a software dev. If both parents work and make their 10K per month which will turn out to be about 8-9K per month net in a suitable canton, then paying 3K out of 16K net salary for full time child care will not break the bank. The Canton of Zug for example gives you significant cuts on taxes for the first child and a bit more for every other child. Not every Canton is that generous, but nobody forces you to live in a less favorable Canton nor in Switzerland at all for that matter. If you are not meeting this salary benchmark, there is still the option for the parent who does not make enough money to take care of the child yourself or a hybrid of a bit of paid child care and child care at home. If none of that works for you for whatever reason, then yes, Switzerland is probably not the best country for you. Somebody else who fits the "target audience" of Switzerland will be happy to take over your seat while another country will be happy to have you.
@@igorpupkinable It has nothing to do with immigrant couples/families like you mentioned. Any couple who hasn't inherited a house or an apartment will will have some difficulties in Switzerland. Kita are very expensive and places are limited, so inevitably one person will have to at least partially stop working.. It is a concern for every regular couple wanting to have a family. Employment preference is another topic and a quite normal thing and happens everywhere. Absolutely ok with that.
@@38countries Man, I've been living here since 2011. I worked in quite a lot of company as a software developer in several cantons. And I know a lot of other software developers working in canton Bern, Zürich, Geneva, Vaud and Bern. We are all "highly qualified and specialized people" like you mentionned. No one hits the 120 000 CHF/year. We are all between 37 and 50 years old. I don't say it's impossible but it is very very unusual for a developer to get that much. If it's your case, then congrats. But you are in the 1% or you're above 55 years old. Let me come back to "Immigrants sometimes do not know what they are worth". Wrong. It's the contrary. Immigrants mostly get higher salaries. Swiss people get lower salaries because they are too shy to negociate.
Not quite sure what to say Younes. Maybe you have the Swiss Romand experience. My experience is mostly with Zurich and surroundings. In the Zurich Metropolitan Area the salary range for a senior dev is 120-200K with some exceptions (like startups, PHP, web design as opposed to coding etc.). A few like Google, IBM and so on even pay more than that for super specialized dev roles, even without being a team lead / manager. So yes, beyond 200K is the exception. But below 120K? I tend to say you are doing it wrong?
Being an Indian and having visited Switzerland before, the people are probably the biggest negative of the country (they might be one of the most prideful people after parisians)
Curious why you would say that. The people in Zurich and surroundings are not very similar to Paris people in my experience. Did you go to Geneva maybe?
half the trains are late in germany and this why you should not move to germany as a software developer, propably with home office XD doesnt make any sense... i heard of some kind of futuristic inventions... they some magic liquid or lightnings from the sky to make a lifeless vehicle move... they are called something like "car" or "bus"!
Haha yes. Although I think that one day Germany will fix this. In theory, Germany has a lot of smart people that could fix this within a few years max. If just the government and decade old structures did not always get in their way.
They all speak German... thank you but it's rather a traumatic experience to spend 4 years in "twice income" country, than to live nicer life longer with twice less eerything. cheers
Unfortunately racism exists everywhere in the world. I am probably not the best person to ask, but I think it's not too bad in Switzerland compared to many other countries.
You know, once I had a colleague visiting us from another European country for a project assignment for a couple of days in Basel. It was in the middle of summer and quite hot outside. And we were not in the mountains since most of the big cities in Switzerland are not in the mountains. He thought all of Switzerland was cold all the time so he brought only long sleeves and sweaters instead of t-shirts. He must have really been sweating those days.
Facts as numbers, comparisons are usually easy to do. For example: such company pays xxx amount of money for software developer position here, but over seas they pay this much, then make run down on expenses and see how factual your statement is. Simple. Good thing that information is available on the web.
You can use GPT or a search engine to get exact numbers. Just to give you a ballpark figure: Net salary in Munich, Germany for a Senior Mobile Dev: 42K p.a., 3'500 p.m. EUR Net salary in Zurich, Switzerland for a Senior Mobile Dev: 96K p.a., 8'000 p.m. EUR However, my video was mainly not about more money, but instead about the individualism vs. collectivism mantra, food quality as well as other cultural and philosophical differences. I don't know how to put this into numbers. Please enlighten me if you know about mathematical models for that.
I have not heard anything negative, but I am probably the wrong person to ask. In any case it may depend on the specific city in Switzerland. Zurich and Zug seem very open and international to me which does not generalize to every municipality in Switzerland.
Imagine landing in a very remote village in Siberia where people have seen human beings of a different skin colour in movies only. This is how it is in central and rural Switzerland. You would expect children to point fingers at you out of curiosity. Most of the adults, on the other hand, have never seen RHD vehicles. So if you really want to double the attention then black guy driving RHD vehicle is the way to go. :) Swiss people would be more curious about you rather than anything else, but you have to remember that Switzerland is still a very conservative country and anti-EU, anti-immigration movements are somewhat strong, so you may indeed meet some rare idiots who think all black people are either gangs or drug dealers.
@@ardnaS-zo4hk There is probably something to it, but seriously in what country in Europe or maybe the whole world is the population on the countryside not skeptical or hostile towards foreigners? Does not seem to be very different in Switzerland to me than just the rest of the world.
I don't think the Swiss will sell their soul too much. Certainly a bit, but in moderation. There was this "Switzerland Second" video a few years ago. "We don't want your money, we already have it."
I would have agreed with you a year ago. I don’t think this true anymore. Salaries in other countries have gone up, and salaries here are not that impressive. Plus for any sort of job security you need to learn a high level of German. The hiring requirements are also quite pedantic, so you need to match the profile perfectly to get the job. It is a very different culture to many other places where you are expected to learn and adapt. Here you’re more like to be expected to know all you will ever need before applying for the job.
You need to become an entrepreneur and solve problems for the whole world. Then your salary is not limited in the long run. Like every other country, Switzerland has its fair share of companies or roles where you can't grow much, personally and financially. But this is not a specifically Swiss problem. Beyond that, I am not even claiming Switzerland will be the perfect country for everyone, nor forever. There is a reason why my channel is called 38Countries.
Hypothetical scenario:
Before Switzerland:
Income: 30
Cost of Living: 10
Income after Cost of Living: 20
After Switzerland (double):
Income: 60
Cost of Living: 20
Income after Cost of Living: 40
Even if both income and cost of living doubled, your income after cost of living will still be doubled. Thus, savings rate doesn't matter much as long as you save more (amount).
True. The only flaw is that you won't be able to live with 20K in any part of Switzerland ;-)
I think it is a great country regardless of what kind of job you do. I do a bit of python programming myself and translation on the side, but I could perfectly do a cleaning job and still enjoy it when there's a reasonable income for the task, great working philosophy and quality of life all around.
Love your attitude!
Can you please share links for how to find tech jobs in Switzerland? Thanks.
@@SandraWantsCoke most underrated comment
I am (was) a software developer living in Switzerland for 30 years.
Yes, the salaries are high and taxes quite low, but do not include health insurance or day care costs for children, which can be substantial for a family.
If you are negociating to come here, multiply x2 what you thing you will need.
Lol, so the mentioned benefit in this video isn’t applicable if you have a family with younger kids.
You are perfectly right, RKW. Day care is expensive. But if you do the math right, it will pay off since the tax benefits you have in Switzerland are drastic over some other European countries. You can literally save thousands each month in the higher income bracket over Germany for example, freeing up money for day care. Keep in mind that I am also not saying that Switzerland is perfect for every case. There are many other beautiful and interesting countries in the world as well that can make sense for different people.
Hi Raphael, very correct informations about the positives living in switzerland. You forgot to mention the sheer beauty of the swiss nature, purity of air and water, epic scenery, lush flora and fauna. You can go to Ticino , Como or Milan over the weekend or up the Alps for a Ski session, it is all very short distance. You are right in the middle of Europe, ideal location for travel abroad. There is a common sense for quality in every aspect of daily life, and swiss people take care about that with passion. I lived for 7 years in Zürich area and missing it very much after moving back to germany. I love switzerland.
Thanks for that comment, Jan! I totally agree. Switzerland is really beautiful indeed!
I think what you mentioned about being in the center of Europe can also be seen as a benefit in the cultural sense. You are basically forced to deal with 3-4 languages in one country preparing you quite well to travel to the neighboring countries and beyond (since French is spoken in so many countries in the world).
I am curious to hear what made you move back to Germany in case you want to share it.
I also lived in Germany and live in Switzerland now. I like to live here.
But I am also happy to visit Germany every time I go there. If you are undecided, go and visit both countries for several weeks to get your own impression.
Yep, first hand on-site experience is always recommended. Give it at least a couple of weeks. In less than that your impression will always be distorted towards the positive or negative.
he is comparing Switzerland with Germany , imagine latin american or african or asian watching this😅
Haha yes. Maybe I should try and do a video where I compare Switzerland to some non-European countries. It's a bit hard for me though since I have only traveled to Latin America and Asia so far. I guess it could try and compare Switzerland to the US since I actually lived there for a little bit when I was still studying.
@@38countries yeah Swiss to us comparison makes sense
@@38countries Which country did you visit in Latin America?
Moved from Germany to Perú 😂
First world problems
I have been living in Switzerland for the past 7 years but plan to move out now as a software engineer. In general, I agree with all that the author said about the life quality in this country (except may be the food quality/price ratio, compared to neighbouring Italy and France). Perhaps, I would give a few thoughts for those who plan to come here and progress! as a software engineer (or make best of their CS degree).
1. Switzerland is a small country. Therefore, there is just not so many exciting places to work here. If you're not lucky/qualified to get into one of the American companies represented mostly in Zurich (Google/NVidia/Amazon/IBM/Apple/etc) or one the top research institutions (EPFL/ETHZ), you are likely to end up coding a coffee machine for Nestle, work for a bank or a small start-up. Also, many companies here try to outsource SWE to other countries with lesser cost of living.
2. Switzerland is not great in SWE. Switzerland excels in many industries, i.e. pharmacy / food / precise manufacturing / civil and mechanical engineering. However, it is not the place you think about when hearing about SWE. Try to think about global impactful software products/companies made in Switzerland, I know a few but it's much much fewer than in the US, Germany or UK, for instance.
3. Many industries are absent in Switzerland: automotive, robotics (despite having ETH), aerospace (despite having RUAG), etc. So if you plan to work in one of these industries, think twice.
Otherwise, I totally recommend this country for work and life.
Все чётко расписал братан
Where're you planning to move out to out of curiosity?
@@livb4139 Italy || France 😅
What's the effective (say "actual") tax rate for a regular SE salary? And what is average SE salary in Switzerland?
thank you for being honest sir..
Thanks to make out of box topic cost of living & salary & savings for those who want to settle in Switzerland dream country for Asian. My childhood friend shifted to Switzerland last week as his son & daughter in law got the job . It's really pleasing to hear you more on food & politics in Switzerland and trains timing extra when you compare with Germany trains. Sound nice one request to you make one video giving with Switzerland Asian country comparision on the same thumbnail
Hi Rajama! Yes, some videos on these topics are coming. Congrats to your in laws for landing the job in Switzerland, it is the start of an amazing journey and the dream for many.
Do you have anything in mind to compare in particular between Switzerland and Asian countries (which countries are you thinking of?)?
I live in Switzerland for 13 years now. Moved also from Germany and was thrown from German school directly to the Swiss working world, so to speak.
The taxes you pay here in contrast to German taxes are actually a joke. For other countries the contrast might not be that obvious. However, the amount of taxes, you pay, depends on your citizenship and residence permit. "Proper" swiss taxes are only paid if you have a settlement permit (C permit) or swiss citizenship where you file a tax return every year. Otherwise your employer deducts a so called "tax at source" from your salary.
A note on the savings, you can gain: This works out very well, if you live alone and/or are not married and also have no children.
Not married couples pay less taxes than married ones (same income).
If you have very young children and you want them to go to the kindergarten 5 times a week, you can pump pretty much all your savings into the kindergarten. How much, depends heavily on the kindergarten. The amount varies between 500.- and almost 2'500.- a month.
In this regard Switzerland is a very family unfriendly country.
And also keep in mind that health insurance is much more expensive than in other european countries. If you chose a not 100% fitting insurance police for yourself (minimal monthly fee, but need for frequent doctor check ups) you might end up paying every year 2'500.-
Travelling can get also very expensive.
It sounds like a perfect country at first glance. It might very well be for many people.
But please read the official info pages regarding taxes, insurance, travel, etc. so you don't end up in unfortunate situations, like I did, because I simply wasn't aware of this stuff. This is also true for many Swiss people, who grew up here, btw.
Hey Trixt0r! Thanks for your explanations.
A few things are not quite accurate though:
The amount of taxes you pay is *independent* of your citizenship. Since 2021, you can and often should do an NOV, meaning you are taxed like any Swiss person, even with a B permit. It's mandatory for the Säule 3a deduction anyways.
I wrote about this in more detail here: www.38countries.com/ch/tax-declarations-in-switzerland-for-expats
Health insurance is quite expensive in some other European countries. I paid more for health insurance in Germany before moving to Switzerland which is surprising since Switzerland is generally a more expensive country. Some of my friends in Germany paid up to 700 EUR per month into the government plan. Paying 200-300 CHF per month for health insurance by contrast is a bargain. Many doctor visits can be combined with a visit to another European country since they are not an emergency. So you can combine exploring Europe with optimizing your health care cost.
Travel is not super expensive either IMO. Flights from Zurich to USA or Asia are often less expensive than the same flight from Munich or Frankfurt due to different taxation of such flights.
I agree with you that Switzerland is not perfect though and am thankful for your explanations.
They show us that it is important to do the specific research and math in each individual case and that Switzerland is not the perfect country for everyone.
@@38countries Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification.
Regarding travel I meant ticket prices for trains. If you don't have Halbtax or GA it can get pretty expensive.
Everyone has a personal definition of expensive 😁
Have a nice day!
@@38countries You are comparing apples with oranges...the public German health insurance might be more expensive (for rich people, not for people on low income, which are also part of society you know?), but it has no deductible, and covers some basic tooth coverage. It also covers your kids and your wife is she doesn't work.
Also if you are an employee (as most people are actually), half of it is paid by your employer.
That "cheap" Swiss insurance has an high deductible, and covers only you, and is fully paid by you (very few companies offer as a benefit to cover the health insurance costs). You probably also are restricted on which doctors you can visit if you need to, unlike the public German health insurance.
If you think that being "forced" to travel to another European country to lower your health expenses is fun or intelligent, I'm sorry for you...I don't want to have to take a damn plane or train, and holidays from work, just to see a doctor. What if I need to see a doctor periodically due to some therapy?
@Yoda You are really misrepresenting facts here, Yoda. I am not rich, neither were my parents. I come from a lower middle class family and would not consider myself rich these days. Normal middle class people in Germany (somebody who makes net 40K or 50K a year is definitely not rich when rent alone is like 25K per year) pay hundreds of Euros each month into health insurance in Germany.
And then not everything is covered. I was under the public plan in Germany and often had to pay extra for all sorts of things because they would not be covered under the public plan. I am by no means talking about plastic surgery or any of that stuff. Try to get simple braces as a teenager in Germany. Guess what? My parents had to pay about 1000 Euros extra and that was many years ago and it was not some fancy special solution. It was the normal ugly braces. Same applies if you go to a hospital and have a more serious thing. If you want proper care, everything costs extra. You often have to pay extra because again the public plan does not cover everything while you and your employer still pay so much into the system.
"You probably also are restricted on which doctors you can visit if you need to" - again, a misrepresentation. Under the default plan you are not restricted in Switzerland.
Thanks for making video on this topic. Even I want to move to Switzerland and I am into IT as Data Scientist. More videos on how to find jobs from home-country or exact detailed steps for interview related videos will be helpful. Thanks.
Hey Monica, have you checked out this video: th-cam.com/video/OHDL7OsSmrs/w-d-xo.html
What else would you like to know in particular?
After living in California for a long time and moving back to Switzerland I would say food quality is mixed. You can buy good groceries but you can almost not get decent tomatoes in Switzerland compared to CA, if you have the means. No doubt, bread is better in Switzerland. But the quality and the creativity of the average, not cheap, restaurants in Switzerland does leave a lot do be desired for in my opinion. Might be different if you come from Germany.
Interesting viewpoint, thanks!
I'm in the Philippines right now and Switzerland is one of my countries looking to work and live there.
Go for it and never give up.
As a dev living in Brazil and making about 140k usd a year working for a US company, I'm mostly stuck here if I think only about savings.
There's no way I'll be able to save more living in Europe. :(
You are right. Unless you move to eastern europe, expenses are about the same or lower than in Brazil.
Sounds like you already achieved a great ratio of income to cost of living. Or am I underestimating the costs of Brazil? Also us salaries quickly go beyond European salaries. Making more than 100k € as a dev in Germany is not easy for example.
Well, maybe. But are you putting taxes into your equation as well? And of course, money is not the only factor. I am not an expert on Brazil, but I can say that there are a lot of Brazilians in Switzerland.
@@38countries I pay around 11% of income taxes. We, we are about everywhere 😆 I consider moving somewhere in Europe for the quality of living, though
@@victorbrittoferreira5206 MG. I'd never live in southern Brazil
I would move to Switzerland in a heartbeat because of your cheese! 😋
What's holding you back?
Can wait to do that. By 2026 i'll finish my grad here in Brazil. By 2028 or 29 I hope I have enough experience in order to get hired by a swiss company. And of course, doing that holding a italian citizenship 🙏 and fluent in german.
By the way, what do you think about network engineer jobs over there? I kinda like them because the subjects are so hard and require complex certifications that i think people might get away because it's more difficult than developing some App. Otherwise, I'm having android App development this semester and i find it sooooo cool that i have searched some mobile dev jobs and they pay really good too!
Can’t really judge how complex network engineering is vs mobile app development because I know too little about the former.
But generally the more complex and advanced the better. Switzerland is optimal for really advanced and complex jobs while some simpler things often get outsourced to other countries. So keep going and specializing and keep in mind that you can always start remote before moving to Switzerland.
Vai dar certo mano, se quiser tenta vir pra Portugal no primeiro ano e depois vai pra suiça, eu vou fazer isso, Suiça ou EUA, em PT eu já tô!
interesting, brazilians thinking about swiss. Is this a pattern? Tamo junto!
@@Jeffersonprg ta como dev jefferson?
Don't forget investing. We don't pay taxes on capital gains, only dividends are taxed as income.
Very good point. This makes saving over time a bit easier. In most European countries you are taxed on price gains over investments, in Switzerland you typically are not as an individual.
My savings rate went from 60% to 10% after emigrating to a country with about 2X living cost, but 4X property cost, and living in a house 40% the size of my old one... so...
Why did you do that if you don't mind me asking?
The individualism part is the best!
@@johndutton349 I have to agree with you. Tks for reinforce me the point idea of what is being an colective prick ... 😉
Glad you liked it :-)
great video! im helping my friend do a write up on his future and all that so im really looking at options in europe, which would be a great improvement over where he is now.
Best of luck! Feel free to share what you guys end up deciding on.
You brought so many good points! Alas, I cannot do such thing bc the color of my skin would make me stand out. Makes me wanna cry sometimes to miss out on things like that
We have people of all colors in Switzerland, so maybe you worry too much?
I think on a European level there are worse countries in that regard.
Switzerland has one of the highest percentages of foreign born population in Europe, higher than all of its neighbors.
Hi Raphael, thanks for making this video! I wonder how hard it is to get a work visa to Switzerland. Have a wonderful day!
Depends on your citizenship. For EU/EFTA it's automatic. For other citizens, it's much harder. You'd need to be a specialist, manager or so to get a visa sponsored. Then again many software devs count as such specialists because the Swiss market is a bit dried out in some areas.
I would like to go to it I am a student in SA in CS and that looks amazing
If you can dream it, you can do it! Be aware that Switzerland has income tax, different than Saudia Arabia.
Lol. I live in Slovakia working as a developer for a German company. And we make half of what they make in Germany - And I think I have it pretty good. But here we also pay only 0.40eur for beer :) But as a German are you not basically a local in Switzerland?
Hi @rkucbel! Certainly nothing wrong if you are happy where you are right now :-)
(Un)fortunately, Germans are not locals in Switzerland because the culture and politics is very different between Switzerland and Germany and so is the language. Germans typically do not understand Swiss German.
If Switzerland and Germany were the same it would not have made any sense for me to move to Switzerland in the first place.
Regarding the financial discussion you were alluding to: Imagine you'd work a couple of years in Switzerland to save lots of money and then you go back to Slovakia. You can probably buy a nice house or good part of it with the savings you accumulated.
I really liked Bratislava btw where I visited last year!
The last topic touched im, im moving
Switzerland is indeed a great country. The biggest downside IMHO is the astronomical house prices in e.g. Zürich canton. Owning your own house is one of the most important things for financial freedom and quality of life.
Since the savings rate is much a factor higher it might make sense to work in switzerland for some years and pay rent and with your savings you can buy a house in your home country like Germany
@@vincentschulz9355 Yes, good point. Or buying a house outside Zrh canton somewhere where you get more value for money, but still in Switzerland.
In Switzerland you will have everything you need, but you will own nothing.
Don't buy a house in Zürich then. Switzerland has 25 more cantons some of which have significantly lower house prices.
I made another video about this btw.
Correct, our generation won't stay in the same country their whole lives anyways. Even in Switzerland you can become a Swiss citizen after 10-12 years in case your previous passport is not so valuable. And then you could move on to another country if you can't find an affordable house in Switzerland. Nothing wrong with that IMO, there is a country for every year/decade of your life.
Great advice, thanks for sharing!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for your amazing video! We're currently thinking of moving to Switzerland from Germany and considering all the factors incl prices, quality of living etc. So your video is very helpful. Could you confirm the prices for Kitas, are they really that insanely high?
Yes, taking care of a child requires a lot of time if you do it yourself, so accordingly it will cost a lot of money for somebody else to take that task over from you.
But the math is really simple here. The average salary in Zurich is around 8'500 CHF per month. Times two it's 17K per month or 204K p.a. gross salary per household.
With that household income you can afford to pay around 3K p.m. for daycare, approx. 17% of your combined gross salary. It's kind of like a 17% tax to get free child care.
If you do not meet those numbers, it makes more sense financially to not outsource child care and instead do it "inhouse".
Hi Raphael , thank you so much for creating this video , your content is always so informative , I'm from portugal and I am still ending my computer science degree , and I'm very interested to move to Switzerland , do you think not knowing german is a big barrier to find a job as software developer? Keep up the great work!
Thanks Marcelo, glad to hear that!
I think you can certainly get started in Switzerland without German. It's even hard for most Germans because Swiss German is so different from "normal" German. A lot of expats don't learn German for a few years.
I do recommend to put in the effort though once you have arrived.
Switzerland has a bit of an issue of integrating people. If you don't speak the local language it's near impossible to make local friends, you would end up mainly with other expats. Which is probably still not too bad since there are so many in Zürich, Zug, Geneva or Basel, but you miss out on a lot of the culture and local events.
Depending on how much you focus on it, you could become fluent within a year once you have arrived.
Switzerland is generally popular among the Portuguese as an immigration country.
@@38countriesHey thanks for the help , yeah definitely very popular choice among the portuguese , I was thinking about to start learn german but thanks to your guidance I will focus more on improving my skills as software developer
Hey @@xMegaPT ! This article that I wrote a while ago about the language topic might be interesting to you: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german
@@38countries Hi , Raphael I'm definitly going to check , thank you for being considerate.
I really love this content ❤
Glad you like it!
Hi Raphael, very informative video! I'm a web and mobile developer from Bosnia. I have a little over 1 year of working experience. I mostly developed in React Native, but I also worked with Angular/Typescript. What are the chances of moving to Switzerland in such a situation? On the other hand, what is the chance of a remote position for a Swiss software company?
P.S. Ich habe auch sehr gute Deutschkenntnisse.
I have a similar questions. Almost 2 years of experience. Hope someone chimes in and offers some advice.
Any words on this?
Angular is very popular in the German speaking part of the country. But many companies are also searching for React, Vue or plain JS developers.
After Covid most companies offer remote work/home office, because they were forced to offer their employees such an option. I have colleagues at work, who don't live in Switzerland, but are 100% involved in the daily business of the company.
@Korra Norg Yes, why not. Spring boot is also in high demand.
Hi, after completing a Master's in Germany (in parallel working at DFKI), would you recommend starting a Junior Developer journey in Germany first or in Switzerland?
From a financial perspective I probably makes more sense to go to Switzerland straight away as soon as you have a job offer.
In case you want to work a bit longer where you currently are to finish an important milestone, it might be better for your career to first stay there for a while to finish whatever you are busy with even if it will lead to less money. But then again don't wait too long or otherwise the move will never happen.
Hi Raphael, I've been planning to move to Switzerland for almost a year now. I'm currently studying cyber security in Germany, and I was wondering if it's hard to get your first job in Switzerland straight after university, or would it be better to start the first job in your home country to gain some experience first?
Hi Samuel Backof! I think it's a matter of taste. It may be a bit easier for you to get a job in Germany first, but financially it will probably not pay off in the long run to do so. Esp. if you already know that you want to live in Switzerland or at least try it out, I would not delay it and go for it straight away.
Hello, dear I'm a student of Automobile.
Now I'm 2rd year but next year my automobile diploma will be completed ,bz Automobile and diesel technology diploma range is three year's. Just I want to say all who read this comment, I need job any country after completion my diploma. Starting sellry no matter but if you give me some training like 3month at least and give me visa then I'm agree for work. if work is contract base then also I'm agree.
Kindly reply me { thanks for all }
If you don't mind me asking, where can you study cyber security in Germany? I only found master degrees for cybersec.
Hi Raphael, I’m from Brazil living in UK, the salaries here for software developer are low and the taxes are high, left me almost nothing to save due to the cost of living.
How hard do you think to get a remote job in Switzerland with only english? I’m EU national so It won’t need any visa sponsorship.
Thanks for the content, very rich in information and details!
Hi Alicio! Great question.
The best is always trying.
I actually recommend to generally be careful with software dev jobs that require German in any case since these companies tend to be a bit more traditional and you can't do the cool stuff in traditional companies. But I am sure somebody would disagree on this and say "oh no no, we need to stick to the German language for another million years".
Your best bet is probably with startups and simply applying can never hurt, even with bigger companies. They might interview and accept you even though they had something different in mind.
I am planning to build a group of mobile devs (iOS and Android) who want to work remotely for Swiss companies or maybe even collaborate with myself on some projects. If this is interesting to you, please sign up for the "How To Move to Switzerland" beta or my Facebook group:
38countries.com/ch/how-to-move-to-switzerland
facebook.com/groups/38countries/
Thanks Raphael, that’s very helpful. I see what you meant about that, that’s happens everywhere, unfortunately traditional companies tend to be narrow minded and stick to ice age ways.
I’ve applied to some startups already and some of them have contacted me for initials interviews this week, super excited 😃
Thanks for the invitation, I’ve sent the request already.
@@alicioromoli2570 Yes, with corporates and startups it's always a difficult struggle. Startups on the one hand don't have too much money and offer very little job security.
Corporates on the other hand often have less interesting tasks for you and sometimes can't accommodate you because of all sorts of rules. So you typically need to find some middle ground and I recommend to talk to both groups but also to medium sized companies who are sometimes the best of both worlds. Never forget that the best jobs/projects typically come where you don't expect them while very promising ones often turn sour.
Hey Alicio! I recently wrote an article about job platforms: www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland
Would be curious to hear if this helps you to find a fully remote job in Switzerland.
Please let me know about any additional questions on that topic.
Excelent video very informative
Glad you liked it
Can you make a detailed video about retirement in Switzerland ?
Yes, will try. The topic is very big though and has many subjective factors. Anything you are particularly interested in?
Hello Raphael, I am Devops engineer with 7 years of experience, I am also Canadian citizen. Can you please guide me?
Sure, what would you like to know first?
@@38countries how is Switzerland for Devops engineers opportunity wise?
What is the process of moving there?
Is Canada not good currently for Devops engineers ?.
Very nice video, enjoyed it!
Glad you enjoyed it, Anton! Let me know about any wishes for future video topics.
It surprised me that you are telling that trains being not on time is unreliability. Here in Spanish we have to wish for public transport just being.
OK, but Spain is not big about trains. It's as if you moved to Spain to discover that after all the wine and the food were terrible.
But how to be contracted by a Switzerland employers being a foreign software engineer, worst being Latin American SE.
You apply directly or go through a near shoring company.
You left the out the most important part: an analysis of the dating market. All these things mean nothing if as a man it is too difficult to obtain a decent woman for dating/marriage.
Yeah I guess now it's too late for me to really analyze the dating market. From my past experience I can tell you though that the dating market is not very different from Switzerland's neighboring countries Germany, Austria, France and Italy.
Like most of Europe, Switzerland features a 50% female population in general, meaning that the other 50% of the population is male as in DNA carries a Y chromosome.
So I don't see any reason why finding a partner in Switzerland should be substantially more difficult or different than in the rest of Central/Western Europe.
I can't see the benefit of moving to Switzerland, why leave a tax free jurisdiction to pay tax in Switzerland and why save when I can invest without capital gains tax. I agree is better than France, Germany, UK but it is no where at all competitive compared to tax free jurisdictions.
First of all, there are not many if any tax-free jurisdictions with a decent quality of life. If you look at the HDI Top 20, you will find that many of them have very high taxes and none of them are even close to zero-tax jurisdictions. It does not become much better if you take a different ranking.
The next thing is that it's really hard to make a lot of money when living in a "tax-free" jurisdiction. So many coaches on the internet want to sell you this dream, but the reality is that a lot of their followers/customers end up making like 30K per year without paying taxes where really they could make much more money after taxes under a different type of arrangement.
If you want to become rich, get VC and build the next unicorn. Saving on taxes alone will never make you rich. On the contrary, it will often limit you to into selling hot air.
thanks, very helpful
You're welcome!
long story short, i'm portuguese, my gf is from a village in zurich, we live in london and been together for 8 years now. we plan on moving to either zug or zurich (she has not decided yet) at the end of this year.
My German is bellow A level, how difficult do you reckon that it will be for me to continue working as full stack eng ? I suppose that my question is regarding if it would be easy to find work speaking in english for the time being
Hi SixScriptsUnder!
My article can probably answer that question: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german.
And I will also release a video on that topic in a few days.
So I released a video recently on this: th-cam.com/video/5WqHEdohQAM/w-d-xo.html
Would be curious to hear your feedback if it helps.
I live close to Stuttgart and work as a Software Engineer and make 180k Euros gross a year and live in a debt-free self owned apartment. I dont think I can save more money in a month by moving to Switzerland ? I really would need to earn smt like 250k CHF annual to make it for me financally worthwhile but this is quite difficult to achieve. I dont want to grind leetcode to get into Google Zurich or Meta after already having a million net worth already. All other Swiss companies do not seem to cross 200k CHF annual gross line for software developers and that amount I can already make in cheap Germany. Any advice?
Not possible to say in general. On the hand, you already have a very high salary for German standards.
It is also not really possible to say whether you could have a higher income in e.g. Zurich vs Stuttgart just from moving without knowing more about your particular role. It might be higher in Zurich, but it could even be lower because sometimes that particular skill set is highly in demand in your current city Stuttgart but not in Zurich.
Generally in your level of income and also net worth, it is more interesting to save on taxes than having a higher salary. You could hypothetically pay much less income tax and capital gains tax (since in CH there are no capital gains taxes on typical private investments within certain limits) therefore improving your annual savings bottom line even if your gross salary stays the same and your cost of living goes up. Tax savings can sometimes overcompensate higher cost of living between "cheaper" countries and Switzerland, effectively making Switzerland the cheaper country.
If you are interested, this might be a case for a 1:1 consultation with me, let me know.
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This is a really weird video. The guy is german and he is inviting everyone to Switzerland??? It's like if I invited people to my neighbours' house without asking him.
I think Raphael forgot to mention a few downsides of living in Switzerland:
As well as the high cost of living:
- Difficulty to get a work permit
- Difficulty to find a job if you don't speak the language
- Hard to make friends for expats
- Very hard to find a nice flat in big towns like Zurich or Geneva
- Very expensive day-care for parents
Why you should not move to Zürich or Geneva as an expat:
www.38countries.com/ch/why-you-should-not-move-to-zuerich-or-geneva
Do you need to learn German to find a job as a software developer in Switzerland:
th-cam.com/video/5WqHEdohQAM/w-d-xo.html
Moving is one thing, can you give us sources on how to apply at tech jobs in Switzerland?
Hi Saurav! Have you tried out my suggestions in www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland ?
Would be curious to hear your feedback if it helps.
Don't forget about the mountains!!!
Mountains are the best!
Hi Raphael, thanks for sharing! What about language, is it real to find a job w.o. german/french knowledge? I check time to time IT positions in Switzerland via glassdoor, 80% requires to have some knowledge of german. Do people speak english there, do you have work mates who comunicate in english only, how common it is? Btw, your english is pretty impressive.
Hi Tigly! I would at first avoid those jobs that require German. First of all, I don't recommend to delay your move to try and learn German beforehand. It makes more sense to learn that in the country that actually speaks German with real speaker around you every day. If you do that from somewhere else, you are probably never gonna get there and then you will never make the move.
Second, and here it is much more my personal and somewhat radical opinion: The language of IT is English. And I am saying that as a native German speaker. It's just the reality. Now if a company stubbornly requires fluent German for a software dev job, it is an indicator that this company/team is a bit more on the conservative side and has not accepted the reality yet that you as a company are limiting yourself too much in hiring the best and brightest if fluency is your filter upfront.
I do recommend to learn German quickly (i.e. within 3-12 months of arrival) once you are in Switzerland to integrate into society, make non-expat local friends etc. Once you are surrounded by German speakers it's quite doable in my opinion.
Even more on the whole language topic in Switzerland: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german
Hi raphael,
Im currently living in turkey and im a university student and learning frontend.. would it be possible to find a remote software engineer internship during my university year with no experience, were i would work for an international company but from my hometown turkey?
Hi Lucas! This is probably possible but I would generally not recommend to do a fully remote internship. It's more exciting and will give you more learning potential to do an internship combined with cultural immersion, so you'd need to be in the same country more or less. I have never really looked into internships in Switzerland, but I would just give it a try. There is enough of a shortage of talent in software engineering in general, so some company might be able to sponsor a visa. Or you could of course start with another European country, e.g. one of Switzerland's neighbors.
Hi Raphael, I found your channel on my feed and it hits right on the spot of my main question. I'm doing a 4month bootcamp next month (one of the top bootcamps at coursereport , switchup, etc) and I was wondering if it his valid in switzerland?
I've looked in LinkedIn and there's a lot of company's not asking for a degree. Do you think it's doable to find a job? I'm not looking into big company's or corporates. I feel like the startup are more suited for me.
I live in Switzerland btw but in the French part, I speak fluent French and English.
Hi Paulo, really depends on the company. Some do require formal stuff like degrees, many are not that strict. I would say that Switzerland is a little more focussed on your actual skills, work experience etc., anything that enables you to develop software, than some other countries in Europe.
Don't worry if you not every company invites you for an interview. Some companies also post jobs where there is no urgent need to hire and then they have unrealistic expectations. Don't be fooled by such job ads that will easily lead to rejection that it would be your fault.
So overall a bootcamp alone is not always enough by itself but it is a start, esp. if applying only for a junior role. You can probably find a company that is desperate enough to get you started and then you just take it from there.
@@38countries Thank you for the answer, it was very helpful and motivating :D
@@paulorovere2757 Glad it helps. Remember to never ever give up. If you consider giving up, write me a message.
nice video Raphael, what about buying a house? I heard that it is too expensive buying house there. Even many local people prefer to buy a house in neighbor countries. What do you think about it?
Yes, houses are expensive in a few parts of Switzerland, but not everywhere.
My advice is always: Don't just move to Zürich or Geneva because everyone else does.
Check out my other video on that topic: Why finding a place to live in Switzerland is so difficult: th-cam.com/video/wygtd__11cs/w-d-xo.html
And my blog article: Why you should not move to Zürich or Geneva as an expat:
www.38countries.com/ch/why-you-should-not-move-to-zuerich-or-geneva
@@38countries Hi Raphael, yes, thanks for the reply and for the advice. I read your blog. It's pretty interesting, thanks. I will take that as very good advance. Cheers, Ivan.
Does this also apply to cloud engineers? Or Linux engineers?
Amazon hires cloud people in Switzerland as do a few others.
Hi Raphael, Thanks for your video. I am looking for a Full stack development job. I am studying in Germany. How hard is the Swiss German language requirement for a software development job?
Hi Dhananjay! Great question.
People moving to Switzerland often fear the "language".
I wrote an article about this a while ago: 38countries.com/ch/swiss-german
For those who don't know what we are talking about: Swiss German and its many dialects is very different from Standard High German (as spoken mostly in Germany). I often like to compare it to Dutch vs. German. If you know one, you will have a relatively easy time to learn the other, but it does not come for free.
I think for devs it is not really an issue. You can get away with speaking only English for years in the bigger cities and its surroundings in Zurich, Zug, Geneva, Basel. If you speak and understand Standard German even better. Over time you can then get into understanding Swiss German.
Most German native speakers learn to understand Swiss German very well within 3-12 months without putting too much conscious effort into it, simply through every day's interactions.
Some jobs in more conservative companies do require that you speak Standard or Swiss German quite well but I would say that in software development these are only a subset. It is limiting your job search, but I think that limitation is not too bad and not really a factor to be afraid of moving to Switzerland.
@@38countries Thanks for your information.
Suisse Deutsch becomes a requirement to apply for decision-making positions in German speaking kantons depending on a company.
how hard is to get an english spoken job? From what I saw, 80% requires german
It varies a lot. The most important local languages are German and French and then there is also Italian. Traditional companies like banks, insurance companies and many small and medium enterprises often do require the local language. But multinational companies often don't since their main language often is English anyways.
I am 35 in Microsoft India, will I save more in Switzerland compared to India? I am a spendthrift
Probably yes, but it really depends on many factors, so you'd have to do the personalized math.
It's a small population and hence a small market, so opportunities are also scarce, I've tried to find one for Mobile development, however there were not much listings I could find...
Funny that you say that. The employer side in Switzerland is always complaining that “the Swiss IT market is dried out” and that they can’t find anyone who lives in Switzerland for their jobs.
hi :)
please please I need your answer..
Now I'm in London and I'm learrning development as self taught. I'd like too move to switzerland to work as developer in a year.
Can I ask you please if there is any possibility to find a job there, if i have no degree in computer and if I dont speake German or france?
Which programming languagges are most in demand?
I learned forntend: HTML CSS JAVASCRIPT and I'm moving to REACT and then I'm gonna do a bootcamp in london for software engeneering using PYTHON SQL...
I speak Italian English and arabic.
thank you so much
Really depends on your skill. Without a degree it can be difficult unless you are incredibly good esp if you are not an EU citizen.
It’s possible if you specialize and become an expert.
@@38countries thank you so much
Yes I’m Italian so hopefully that will help
@@benelansari7228 An Italian passport will definitely help you since you won't need a visa that way.
Waiting for a job offer to move there
Go for it and never give up.
Thanks master!
You're welcome!
I wouldn't move to Switzerland anymore. With AI Software can be produced cheaper and better elsewhere so devs will have to find a new Job soon in Switzerland
Not only in Switzerland... In India for example too.
Have you even tried ChatGPT at all? I use it every day for software dev and other writing tasks. More than half of it is complete bogus.
Beyond that: Do you really believe that AI will develop and maintain itself on its own next year?
Completely unrealistic IMO.
@@38countries yeah. It's not good now, it won't substitute next year but there's good chance that people fire a lot of in-house devs because of increased productivity. Outsourcing may even actually become a good option, since AI can help produce well written and maintainable code
I don't know. I use GPT almost every day. At least half of it is unusable.
Often when I ask something about iOS, the result is based on some super outdated StackOverflow answers and the code won't really work anymore. It is at best a better search engine so far. So I like using it instead of Google, but it won't really do most of the work for me.
@@38countries yeah I'm not worried about the state of AI now. I'm worried about Github announcing that they want their Copilot to be able to write entire programs. Will they achieve it while I still work? That is yet to be seen. But it already being a better Google is a productivity boost. Studies say that people who use AI have 53% - 56% productivity boost.
Hi Raphael could I plz ask you? I am a german developer and got a Job in switzerland with 150k yearly salary, I feel the salary is a little bit high regarding my skills and experience and I am worrying about that.. how is the work level there? Harder than in germany ?
Hey G0Th!Qu0! Sorry for the slow replies these days. Got a bit overwhelmed with the many comments to this video, but am glad about the interest.
150K is a decent salary for a senior or team lead dev, depending on the technology.
Generally, it's work hard, play hard, more than in Germany, but probably less extreme than the US.
@@38countries thnx for the reply ! I am unfortunately not in the senior/lead level, I am doing Java/Spring/Angular development (Full Stack)
Then you seem to be very lucky. I'd say go for it?
@@38countries normally I'm not that lucky guy, maybe this time.
I'm thinking about it since I have a family and it is not easy to move and lose the job and then to go back
Hi G0Th!Qu0, I understand that taking a new job abroad when you have a family to support can be risky, but there are ways to mitigate that risk. Firstly, you can negotiate the best possible salary and benefits package, ensuring that you're financially secure before making the move. Additionally, you could keep the door open to your old role and potentially return if the new role doesn't work out as you anticipate.
It's also worth mentioning that Switzerland has a strong social safety net and provides assistance to those who lose their jobs, including unemployment insurance and job placement services.
Which country are you from?
Grew up in Germany but my family is not from Germany.
Hi Raphael! Thank you so much for this such informative video. I'm a software developer as well and I am from the Philippines trying my luck to apply and work abroad. How can I connect with you? I have some inquiries if you don't mind. I'm very interested visting and working in switzerland huhu
My pleasure! I see you found your way to our Facebook group. :-)
Hey Raphael ! I am pursuing diploma ( pre bachelors after 10th grade ) in computer science 2nd year and I want to move to Switzerland for my bachelor's in 2025 ! What do you think I shall focus more on ? I personally have interest in DevOps/Cloud And Data Science/Machine Learning But From Your Experience and Knowledge What Shall I Specialise in to easily find jobs in Switzerland ?
All of what you mentioned is sufficiently good to find a great dev job in Switzerland. I see these roles very often on LinkedIn. Switzerland is small (almost 9M people, similar to Austria, Portugal etc.), but not tiny like Monaco or Liechtenstein. So pick whatever you think is most fun.
... and I just started the beta of my "How to Move to Switzerland" program. While in beta, you can sign up for free: 38countries.com/ch/how-to-move-to-switzerland
Also don't forget to check out my article about job platforms:
www.38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland
are there job opportunities in switzerland as sa software dev?
Yes, it is more difficult now than 2 years ago though like everywhere in the world, which makes it even more important to position yourself correctly
Is it better to move to Switzerland or United States as a Tech Entrepreneur?
Depends on many factors. If you are looking for VC, the US may be better. But then again getting a visa for the US is difficult for EU citizens while EU citizens don't need one for Switzerland, but might find the high quality of living in Switzerland combined with investment from the US plus a sales office in the US plus maybe a few R&D offices through the EU a good combo.
I know that convincing my GF to move to the US with its gun issues and so many people who can't even agree on basic scientific facts is probably harder than it was to get her to Switzerland :-D
What would you say is the average salary for an engineer with 5 years of experience?
Highly depends on your tech stack. For e.g. Java, Golang, Python backend stuff as well as Swift, Kotlin mobile apps around 120-160K. It can be more depending on how specialized you are in a certain framework or product and reach around 200K. Below that I would try and find a better role before moving.
I'm from Iran and I am a front end developer. Is there any guidance for moving to Switzerland?
Consider starting with a remote job.
@@38countries I've sent my resume for over 5 companies, but as soon as they know I'm from Iran, they reject me. Also, moving money to Iran has some serious considerations, because of sanctions. If you have time, I can send you my resume, also I will be thankful for a small online talk if you have time.
Sure. I was thinking of doing an AMA session sometime soon. Would you be interested in that?
@@38countries Yeah, sure! thank you so much!
Watched the first 2 minutes. This doesn't seem to apply to someone who is living in the Philippines like me who could have a developer salary from Silicon Valley, where I'm from.
Maybe, but the Philippines don't score so well on quality of life, life expectancy etc. So even if you won't make more money, a move to a more developed country could be worth a consideration.
@@38countries I completely agree. Switzerland is beautiful. I’ve been to Bern and Interlaken.
Probably you need to pay 6-months rent in advance, so you need to have a lot of money saved before you can move.
3 months rent is the usual deposit which is less than one month's salary. But yes, you always need a good buffer of savings before moving to any country since there will be many such instances where you have to make a deposit or need a safety buffer for unexpected circumstances.
That will be my dream job
Go for it :-) But don't wait too long, otherwise life might be over and you have not lived your dream.
@@38countries we need more videos on how to apply search and get visa
i would say PORTUGAL is way better cost of leaving much less expensive, better temperature all-year weather, specially if you are developing for crypto, its a no brainer.
Spent a month in Lisbon during winter. It was too cold for me. Portugal seems not equipped to handle winter. Plus taxes are much higher in Portugal and hard to make much money there unless you are a global entrepreneur in which case the higher taxes tend to make it not so attractive.
But I am sure that below 50K of income/profit Portugal can be very attractive if you like the sea.
I always wanted to migrate there. Is there any suggestions for suitable platform to apply as software developer at Switzerland?
Hi Raja! Yes: 38countries.com/ch/tech-job-websites-switzerland
Let me know if you have questions beyond that.
I know i know most ppl dont thing about it #BUT the payment in the retirement in switzerland is waaaaaaaaaay better then in most europe countries.
German ppl need more and more to work at least a bit in their retirement.
The reason why i dont want to go to switzerland is, that the ppl their don't like foreigners AT ALL...
They will let you feel that week for week. Not all, but enough that u will feel uncomfortable.
Yeah, saving for retirement is quite broken in many European countries. Which is said I think, because decent solutions exist, experts have been proposing some for many years now, but "nothing ever happens". I agree that Switzerland is better, but the Swiss AHV will also crash one day. These intergenerational systems can never work IMO and should be banned for good in OECD if it were for me. Which is why it's good that Switzerland has the Pensionskasse that you were probably alluding to on top of AHV and also the Säule 3a.
Regarding being welcome or not as an immigrant I can only say that you won't find a country where there is no discrimination against immigrants / expats. If you look at the numbers, Switzerland actually has a very high percentage of immigrants vs. Swiss nationals. Switzerland has about 28% foreigners, Germany only 18, UK 14, France 13, even the US "the immigrant country" only about 15%.
In other words: Switzerland is one of the top immigrant countries in Europe if you filter out tiny countries like Liechtenstein, Monaco or Andorra and Luxembourg who have much higher percentages of foreigners but are obvious anomalies due to their low population size.
In practice, I have not felt much discrimination against myself in Switzerland so far.
Germany was worse for me. I can tell you that growing up as a clever kid in Germany is often not a pleasant experience at all.
But yeah, I acknowledge that I might be living in a bubble and that my personal experience is possibly not representative esp. for people who work in other industries than software engineering.
@@38countries Wow u put effort in that answer, thanks^^
Interesting insight.
I was not aware of the high percentage of foreigners.
Possibly explains the reason why they do not like foreigners haha. Just a little joke 😋
@@457Deniz457 Yep, that's what some people argue 😀
What about Austria?
Very nice country, but high taxes and even more bureaucratic than Switzerland.
Hi Raphael I am a Frontend web developer can I get a job i am from India
Yes, but as a non-EU citizen it is much more difficult. You could start with a remote job first.
@@38countries Thank you any advice get for remote job
Sounds great, but most of immigrants were caught by an amazing Swiss public image as a country. However, the reality is different hence people leaving Switzerland in a few years.
Yeah, well, that happens. No country is perfect and I don't think that you have to stay in a country for life. There is nothing wrong with coming to Switzerland for e.g. 5 years and then going to another country just like you won't work for the same company your whole life.
@@38countries thank you for the video. I second everything you said.
Hmm...I wonder how hard it is for non Europeans to immigrate to Switzerland for work?
Definitely harder. You'd need to be a specialist, manager or so to get a visa sponsored. Then again many software devs count as such specialists because the Swiss market is a bit dried out in some areas.
Could you not just live in germany and get the double income from switzerland
In some cases yes, but often no. Taxes in Germany are very high, so often you have to actually move to Switzerland to double your salary. Highly depends on all your circumstances and where specifically you would be living in both countries when comparing numbers.
Hello, dear I'm a student of Automobile.
Now I'm 2rd year but next year my automobile diploma will be completed ,bz Automobile and diesel technology diploma range is three year's. Just I want to say all who read this comment, I need job any country after completion my diploma. Starting sellry no matter but if you give me some training like 3month at least and give me visa then I'm agree for work. if work is contract base then also I'm agree.
Kindly reply me { thanks for all }
Hi Moeez, I am not sure I can understand your comment.
Please don't spread bullshit to the people like that. No. Salaries in Switzerland are not that good. Of course, if you have no life and no family, you could get the impression that you have something left at the end of the month. Things get a lot more complicated if you have a family with younger kids. So: ok for young people finding no jobs and spealing fluently french or german (no chance if you speak italian).
I would argue that there was any deliberate BS in the video. The well known issue you are talking about is most of immigrant couples/families go from two incomes to one because of partner not able to find a job unless in IT industry. Switzerland is very conservative and nationalist country, so “own” people are preferred for hire rather than auslanders.
If your salary in Switzerland is not that good, you may be in the wrong country or in the wrong job.
Don't take this personally please. I was doing it wrong in the beginning and I know a few more who are struggling to get this right.
But it's not a problem of the country. A country is a tool to achieve a purpose and if you are using it wrong, or the wrong tool in the first place, it's not the tools fault.
Also not everyone is the same person. A friend of mine decided not to have kids. But he is happily married and has a life. Not everyone needs kids to be happy.
You are of course right that Switzerland will not be the ideal country for some people. And yes, kids can cost you a fortune in Switzerland, but once again, you can make a fortune of money to pay for it and still have plenty left at the end of the month for savings.
Don't forget that Switzerland is basically made for highly qualified and specialized people who want to work a lot, have a high salary and need reliable infrastructure for doing just that. Your skill set needs to be rare enough and your negotiation skills need to be good enough.
Immigrants sometimes do not know what they are worth, so they undersell themselves. And then yes, the whole calculation might be off at the end of the month. But once again, not the country's fault.
My recommendation is typically that you should not move to Switzerland unless your annual salary is at least 120K CHF as a software dev.
If both parents work and make their 10K per month which will turn out to be about 8-9K per month net in a suitable canton, then paying 3K out of 16K net salary for full time child care will not break the bank. The Canton of Zug for example gives you significant cuts on taxes for the first child and a bit more for every other child. Not every Canton is that generous, but nobody forces you to live in a less favorable Canton nor in Switzerland at all for that matter.
If you are not meeting this salary benchmark, there is still the option for the parent who does not make enough money to take care of the child yourself or a hybrid of a bit of paid child care and child care at home.
If none of that works for you for whatever reason, then yes, Switzerland is probably not the best country for you. Somebody else who fits the "target audience" of Switzerland will be happy to take over your seat while another country will be happy to have you.
@@igorpupkinable It has nothing to do with immigrant couples/families like you mentioned. Any couple who hasn't inherited a house or an apartment will will have some difficulties in Switzerland. Kita are very expensive and places are limited, so inevitably one person will have to at least partially stop working.. It is a concern for every regular couple wanting to have a family. Employment preference is another topic and a quite normal thing and happens everywhere. Absolutely ok with that.
@@38countries Man, I've been living here since 2011. I worked in quite a lot of company as a software developer in several cantons. And I know a lot of other software developers working in canton Bern, Zürich, Geneva, Vaud and Bern. We are all "highly qualified and specialized people" like you mentionned. No one hits the 120 000 CHF/year. We are all between 37 and 50 years old. I don't say it's impossible but it is very very unusual for a developer to get that much. If it's your case, then congrats. But you are in the 1% or you're above 55 years old. Let me come back to "Immigrants sometimes do not know what they are worth". Wrong. It's the contrary. Immigrants mostly get higher salaries. Swiss people get lower salaries because they are too shy to negociate.
Not quite sure what to say Younes. Maybe you have the Swiss Romand experience. My experience is mostly with Zurich and surroundings. In the Zurich Metropolitan Area the salary range for a senior dev is 120-200K with some exceptions (like startups, PHP, web design as opposed to coding etc.). A few like Google, IBM and so on even pay more than that for super specialized dev roles, even without being a team lead / manager. So yes, beyond 200K is the exception. But below 120K? I tend to say you are doing it wrong?
I would better work remotely for a siwss company and do not leave my family and friends behind
Yes, this is possible and some Swiss companies even want it this way.
Being an Indian and having visited Switzerland before, the people are probably the biggest negative of the country (they might be one of the most prideful people after parisians)
Curious why you would say that. The people in Zurich and surroundings are not very similar to Paris people in my experience. Did you go to Geneva maybe?
Top reasons why you shouldn't move:
Because
Haha yes
Why you should move to Switzerland as a chicken
Haha
half the trains are late in germany and this why you should not move to germany as a software developer, propably with home office XD doesnt make any sense...
i heard of some kind of futuristic inventions... they some magic liquid or lightnings from the sky to make a lifeless vehicle move... they are called something like "car" or "bus"!
Haha yes. Although I think that one day Germany will fix this. In theory, Germany has a lot of smart people that could fix this within a few years max. If just the government and decade old structures did not always get in their way.
There is no amount of money in the world that would make it worthwhile for me to live in Switzerland
Ehm OK, thanks for letting us know?
You convinced me to visit Germany instead.
Haha, yes visit Germany and DYOR. I am curious though: What makes Germany interesting to you?
hard yo believe that so many hopeful students still believe there will be jobs for them.within couple of years
Yes, I know. ChatGPT will be able to replace 100% of all the pessimists in the world.
@@38countries you are right, dont change anything and ajjust anything. Everything is going to be OK in the end
Willing to bet on it?
They all speak German... thank you but it's rather a traumatic experience to spend 4 years in "twice income" country, than to live nicer life longer with twice less eerything. cheers
German causes a traumatic experience? I hope not...
One question...did black get treated differently, I mean is there racistiom.
Unfortunately racism exists everywhere in the world. I am probably not the best person to ask, but I think it's not too bad in Switzerland compared to many other countries.
Nooo please don't spoil it
Spoil what?
Because it’s cold outside and you HAVE to stay inside
You know, once I had a colleague visiting us from another European country for a project assignment for a couple of days in Basel. It was in the middle of summer and quite hot outside. And we were not in the mountains since most of the big cities in Switzerland are not in the mountains. He thought all of Switzerland was cold all the time so he brought only long sleeves and sweaters instead of t-shirts. He must have really been sweating those days.
To be an engineer I see nothing but opinions not facts. Show me the numbers instead
Not all facts can be modeled as numbers. How are you going to model collectivism vs. individualism in numbers?
Facts as numbers, comparisons are usually easy to do. For example: such company pays xxx amount of money for software developer position here, but over seas they pay this much, then make run down on expenses and see how factual your statement is. Simple. Good thing that information is available on the web.
You can use GPT or a search engine to get exact numbers.
Just to give you a ballpark figure:
Net salary in Munich, Germany for a Senior Mobile Dev: 42K p.a., 3'500 p.m. EUR
Net salary in Zurich, Switzerland for a Senior Mobile Dev: 96K p.a., 8'000 p.m. EUR
However, my video was mainly not about more money, but instead about the individualism vs. collectivism mantra, food quality as well as other cultural and philosophical differences. I don't know how to put this into numbers. Please enlighten me if you know about mathematical models for that.
Nope, too much cold
Eh, 29° C right now. Cold?
Informative, however how do they treat black people?
I have not heard anything negative, but I am probably the wrong person to ask.
In any case it may depend on the specific city in Switzerland. Zurich and Zug seem very open and international to me which does not generalize to every municipality in Switzerland.
I guess you got your answer Andrew, they are indeed racist and good at rationalising it too, they are rational people after all
@@mistergumboeats5821 i find that parts swiss population esp. in more rural areas can be quite hostile towards foreigners.
Imagine landing in a very remote village in Siberia where people have seen human beings of a different skin colour in movies only. This is how it is in central and rural Switzerland. You would expect children to point fingers at you out of curiosity. Most of the adults, on the other hand, have never seen RHD vehicles. So if you really want to double the attention then black guy driving RHD vehicle is the way to go. :) Swiss people would be more curious about you rather than anything else, but you have to remember that Switzerland is still a very conservative country and anti-EU, anti-immigration movements are somewhat strong, so you may indeed meet some rare idiots who think all black people are either gangs or drug dealers.
@@ardnaS-zo4hk There is probably something to it, but seriously in what country in Europe or maybe the whole world is the population on the countryside not skeptical or hostile towards foreigners? Does not seem to be very different in Switzerland to me than just the rest of the world.
The more newcomers you will bring the less trains will come on time
Nonsense. SBB relies on immigration to operate trains.
Switzerland also has free trade agreements with many countries, e.g. China, which EU countries do not have…
Good point, thanks for mentioning it, thetobyg!
I don't think the Swiss will sell their soul too much. Certainly a bit, but in moderation.
There was this "Switzerland Second" video a few years ago.
"We don't want your money, we already have it."
I would have agreed with you a year ago. I don’t think this true anymore. Salaries in other countries have gone up, and salaries here are not that impressive. Plus for any sort of job security you need to learn a high level of German. The hiring requirements are also quite pedantic, so you need to match the profile perfectly to get the job. It is a very different culture to many other places where you are expected to learn and adapt. Here you’re more like to be expected to know all you will ever need before applying for the job.
You need to become an entrepreneur and solve problems for the whole world. Then your salary is not limited in the long run. Like every other country, Switzerland has its fair share of companies or roles where you can't grow much, personally and financially. But this is not a specifically Swiss problem. Beyond that, I am not even claiming Switzerland will be the perfect country for everyone, nor forever. There is a reason why my channel is called 38Countries.
I mean the background is a reason enough of why to move there
Looks like my back door, Is it Baar, ZG?
Yes it's that area