Snail Man is him. I have for years only played competitive 60 card formats. Grasping commander was a bit hard for me initially, not only because of the different elements of FFA but also putting having fun in the center of everything instead of just building the most brutal decks. Snail Man helped me a lot with his well explained thoughts and examples! Thanks Snail Man!
I brew far more decks than I actually play. The disparity usually results from budget reasons -- I don't like to compromise on a vision for a deck and sometimes a deck is far too expensive to actual build in paper. Other times a deck feels it lacks important pieces (for example, card draw) that synergize with the theme and can only be filled with generic staples.
Gotta proxy that shit up, friend. I do get that feeling. About 2 years ago I brewed up 10 decks and put them together. Proxies of course because there is no reason to pay for real cards. I think it was a great lesson because I played with some of the decks enough to figure out all of their flaws over that timespan. I then went in and was able to yoink out every card that had sat dead in my hand every game. One of the reasons I found that cards were fairly dead is they relied to heavily on a synergy piece that didn't show up often enough in the deck, or the card draw wasn't there to allow me to have the engine going, or there wasn't enough ramp. The fun part was realizing just how many interesting and synergistic ways to accomplish all of those things. That said, I found it to be nice when I had some choices on synergy draw, ramp, and removal, and then being able to run one or two that don't require the synergy since that usually means you are paying more for those extra effects on a card. It kept the curve lower, and stopped me from flailing while I was behind.
Give yourself a strict budget (I recommend 30€ avg magic card market price) and accept it as a challenge rather than a limitation. It's like poetry: the beauty emerges from the restrictions.
@@vincentbatten4686 not to argue against proxies, I think those are fine, but you don't have to even go through the effort of printing them out (or even scribbling on pieces of paper and putting them into sleeves with random cards) because you can just goldfish decks online. The first deck draft is always always complete trash and you realize in the first couple of tries what cards just don't work (or even having to refocus the entire deck). I use moxfield but I'm sure archidekt also has a playtest-mode and there's likely others as well.
I definitely brew more than I actually build, but I do keep a physical deck for each color. (32 decks) I also make sure a mechanical theme is never repeated, like if I have a +1/+1 counter theme in one deck, I don't want multiple +1/+1 decks. Commanders that are open for interpretation are definitely better... like Zedruu for example is just so much better as a Curse commander than Lynde because she's open to that interpretation, not pigeonholed into it.
3:56 I am this person, I have around 150 finished decks (and a dozen or so unfinished decks) in my EDH folder on moxfield, and I've only been using moxfield for deckbuilding for the past 2 years. I have been playing and brewing EDH since 2018 and I need another hobby desperately
The type of content you guys make is far more interesting than what most creators are putting out. This podcast is fantastic. Keep up the good, guys. I brew a lot, but very rarely commit any of it to paper.
I feel this. I have a Peregrin Spore counters deck that plays around the old fungi and proliferating and it's one of those decks that plays just fine as is. Not a lot of outright wincons but it synergizes insanely well with itself
Speaking of upgradability, I have two decks on either end of this spectrum and absolutely love them both. Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker gets a new card in every set, which is fun to explore. Then I have Blind Seer which virtually never gets anything new, but there's something comforting about having a deck that I never have to change or upgrade. I think my other decks land somewhere in the middle.
4:21 I’ve brewed many decks that I never played but when I chose to print a deck I find the larger the selection of unplayed decks the better the final draft is.
Worse yet for lynde, wizards printed "enchant opponent with negative effects that are indistinguishable from curse" in Duskmorne since it fits the same theme, except they said curses were an innistrad thing so they didn't give them the type "curse", even though it literally is. RIP Lynde
This is why I never switched my curses deck over to Lynde from Ghen. Sure ghen isn't the prime colours for curses anymore, but his ability is simple and more broad, so you can use the non-typed "curses" as well. Then again, sometimes it's okay to have decks you don't have to upgrade constantly.
I have a shirei deck that pretty consistently locked my opponents out of creatures. Everyone hated it, obviously. Now I took out the bone shredders etc and I just play normal removal and wipes, it is so much more fun for me to play now because everyone doesn't hate it. Snail, it was actually your video "stop turning your commander into a combo piece" that inspired the change
Just proxy the cards you need for Yoshimaru. Snail you sound super excited to make that deck so do it and use proxies for the expensive cards wotc should be reprinting. Especially if they're lands
Before I get to the actual comment, just wanted to quickly wish Trinket luck with the place he's moving into and hope he finds it a pleasant place. "A deck for every kind of day" is my general motivation for building decks. In an ideal world of infinite money, time and patience, I would have a deck for every archetype in Magic that I could play on-command whenever I feel like. Because I don't live in that world, the decks that aren't in my favourite archetypes like Aristocrats or Reanimator have to be built versatile in their playstyle. More specifically, decks that are built around engines that can change their decklists to suit the flavour of the week. Toolbox-commanders for example are great for this. Decks like Zur and Sisay for example are basically just tutors that fetch "the thing" the deck is built around, so you build your deck around this core of tutors to do whatever it is you want the commanders to help you accomplish. Currently, I have begun work on an Esika, God of the Tree deck, which is basically just a polymorph deck, that seeks to boss-rush the opponents to death. There are 20 slots reserved for creatures in the deck, but these can be literally anything. I could just run Eldrazi to overrun the board, but they could also be a more specialized set of creatures as well. You could do other tribes of big bunguses like Demons, Slivers, Dinosaurs, you name it. You could use cards like Etali (both of them, really), Valki, the new Valgavoth and maybe some blink-enablers to truly embrace the randomness of the deck by flipping into cards that flip into your opponents' cards. You could run cards like the Jin-Gitaxias cards and other staxey creatures to create an endless stream of stop-gaps to make it impossible for the opponents to play. Hell, you could just do nothing but run one copy of Timestream Navigator in the main deck and try to make a deck around infinitely looping extra turns for the win. I chose Esika to be the commander, because with 5 colours in play, nothing's out of the question. I can use whatever creatures and enable them with whatever pieces I need to become whatever I want it to be under the natural constraints of being a polymorph deck.
8:45 This is the reason why I disassembled my beloved Muzzio deck. The format just outpaced it, and most of the new cool artifact bombs to run in it are too expensive to consider (Portal to Phyrexia and Cityscape Leveler, pls, my wallet). It's since been repurposed into a more generically useful artifacts deck under Sharuum, and Muzzio lives on in the 99!
I think "combat tricks" decks can be everyone's salvation. It's fun, all the games are different, you can build them for cheap and you can put a variety of non-oriented combat cards in it.
It is more fun to create a unique concept than to pilot it, especially since popular strategy is to include more interaction than ever before. My absolute favorites i build, buy most i just proxy or never build.
Also something to note, as someone who enjoys brewing more because I don't get to play that often, I don't actually use scryfall or arkidekt, I dig through my collection and start throwing decks together. Once a month or so I'll go on TCGplayer and spend 10-20$ on random cards, some I'm like "Oh, this would be cool to put in this deck" or "Oh, this is a commander I'd like to make a deck around." It's a very fun way to build, and I probably end up using more cards that would never end up in normal decks, due to being limited to paper.
I only play online, where setting up a deck is as easy as plugging a Moxfield link into the program. No exaggeration, I build a new commander deck every week. Sometimes for a friend who does not have time to build their own decks, but usually for myself. I will play it once, see if the strategy is compelling, tweak the list, but more often than not leave the deck on the shelf to be deleted later. Sometimes, if I do not play (m)any games that week, I will not even test the deck before moving on to another build. The compelling strategies get brought back out every once in a while, but a pod containing at least two new lists is the norm for my group.
I have dismantled several decks recently. Giada angels - theme is cool, but the play pattern is VERY linear and the deck kinda just plays itself. Eowyn knights/humans - while it was a fun deck, I made it way, waay too commander centric, and after figuring out just how much I would have to change to make it work, I gave up on it. Marneus Calgar - after spending a couple months tinkering with the deck, I figured out that the only directions I can really go with it would be to lean heavily into aristocrats, which I severely dislike piloting, or commander centric infinites/draw your entire library combos, which is not what I wish to be doing in commander
I have experienced all three decks myself - Giada on the other side of a table and Eowyn/Marneus are the decks in my own arsenal. Giada is really boring tbh if it falls back. Eowyn yes, can be a bit commander dependant, but Humans core is already solid, so I am still keeping the deck (maybe it would want a bit of rework, but whatever). Marneus is constructed more in a fashion of token/midrange with solid draw and removal packages - quite resilient and nice to play against. No aristocrats stupidity, no token doublers (apart from that phyrexian, which I traded from my friend) and other generic token stuff. Also may be commander dependant, but can absolutely operate on its own without involving Marneus.
I have 19 paper EDH decks assembled of varied power levels/themes. 30-40 decks that have been dismantled for various reasons. I love the deckbuilding process and tweaking decks after a few weeks of playing. Generally what makes a deck worth building to me with a commander that catches my interest.
I have an un-upgradeable deck which is rakdos Minotaurs with neheb the worthy at the helm. The most upgrades that I can do is the mana base when the expensive lands get reprinted. Its one of these decks that I wish I could upgrade it, but Minotaurs are just creatures WOTC's prints when they don't want a human. Also, the tribe has with no good 1 or 2 drops which makes me cry.
This topic was tailor made for me! High turnover rate of decks I build, guilty as charged haha Specifically building decks that are an intellectually interesting idea but when you sit down to the table they flounder or do the niche thing and the fun is gone.
I used to brew a lot of 60 decks, but it takes so much longer for me to get together 100 different cards that I like, so I don't brew a whole deck unless I strongly consider buying it. And then I have to play test and goldfish a super budget version before committing to upgrades. Two decks that came to mind that didn't get into the paper phase were Awaken the Blood Avatar and Jadzi Storm. Blood Avatar was just too arch enemy coded, having a repeatable edict in the command zone that also kills everyone. Then Jadzi didn't get past gold fishing when my first storm turn took an hour.
Question Zone Question: Do you guys actually enjoy editing other peoples decks ? I know you get asked constantly to improve someone elses deck. Hearing you guys talk about your own decks makes it very clear that you care alot about personal expression through deckbuilding. thanks for the podcast it brings me great joy PS: adopt the snail as a permanent member, thanks.
52:20 This is something I run into A LOT whenever people complain about layers. Everybody sees how Humility affects (or rather, doesn’t affect) Bello or Magus of the Moon, and they immediately want SOMETHING to change, and start suggesting things that just don't work. I'm not gonna go through all of them, but one I find hilarious is just how many people say "Just say it works intuitively", as if it's just that easy. Like, if you think about it for more than 0.5 seconds, "Player interpretation should be the sole thing that decides how cards interact" is fucking awful.
My Grothama deck also usually casts him and kills him immediately. Drawing 10 cards can make a deck pretty consistent. (I like the deck cause I get to play little +X/+X combat tricks I wouldn't otherwise. He's a fun one to protect.)
Question zone: what are some of your favorite cards that never quite make it into your deck-lists? For example, mine is “inner calm, outer strength”, where the difference of it drawing 1 card and not drawing a card is the only factor keeping it out of one of my decks.
Question Zone: Do you have a character from magic lore that you'd like a card of or another card for that already exists? (For example, I would like to see a new Jareth, Leonine Titan with a modern commander design) Also, I think it'd be fun to call the section the TCC or the Thought Courier's Corner (branding unrelated to another famous TCC initialism). Just a 3/3 Elk and a Trinket Mage brought mail by the Thought Courier. "What does the Thought Courier have for us today?"
As someone who’s brewed and built/played 100 decks or so some definitely translate to game play fun better than others and I’ve never brewed for the sake of it and not run the deck and only brew what I find as interesting or fun to me so I relatively enjoyed them all but my playstyle isn’t tied to one deck as my whole identity so I switch it up frequently. The thing that I watch is my OPPs reactions to my lines or win cons or interaction
I have a Zurzoth deck and Kelsien deck, but mine revolves around other cards than u would normally put on them and it gets a lot more consistency and less revolving around it for when they get removed a lot
9:20 they just did this with the 5c room commander. Frame 1 they put out the blanket room commander, and I'm not super sure we are gonna get a ton of new rooms coming in. Both bland design, and design that probably won't scale.
Honestly, that's probably an offshoot of getting requests to print commanders for every set theme. In order to keep the game fresh, they keep making new themes, some of which aren't intended to see future support as their role is to be interesting in limited. See: Rooms, Forage, Valiant, Disguise/Cloak, Descend
100 proxy decks in a year type guy here. I don't build my decks for upgradability, I just build them so I can pull them out a year from now for a game or three and it'll hold up. Now, thats not to say I don't upgrade the decks I REALLY like and keep returning to, its just that upgradability is less of a factor for me. I actually don't check edhrec until im VERY close to a deck being done. If im really struggling for a specific slot, ill do my searches with edhrec sort on, but until the deck is finished and in need of repair, I won't touch it. For me, flavor of the month takes the form of half decks, decks I add all the synergy pieces to and then never finish. I really try and print and play all the decks I finish, my backlog is with old commanders I wasn't there to see release.
I think Legendary was considered an intentional drawback for strong cards, to limit their use in 60-card formats. For instance, you might only want to play 3 copies of OG Thalia, to avoid drawing dead cards.
I never get to play edh anymore but I still follow these sorts of channels and think about and build decks. I don't buy them in paper anymore. At least not until I am perfectly happy with a new idea which has not yet happened.
I brewed a lot of decks, hundreds, but the few ones I actually ended up building and keeping were decks that at the same time did something unique, have almost no cards and strategies in common with my other decks, and are flexible and open enough to play differently every game, so tough bar to clear. Still ended up with a dozen decks in my collection though 😅
Hey guys! I think you should probably have the face icons of the people in the podcast be smaller in favor of more room for the cards being talked about. During the cast, I (a listener on TH-cam) wasn't sure what Yoshimaru did so I turned to look at my phone and although Yosh was on screen I still had trouble reading the card and had to pause to make sure it didn't leave the screen. While this is not an issue all people will have, I believe you should still put more focus on the cards given the fact that they're the one topic we are talking about :)
I wanted a +1+1 deck not in green. Tried for a so long to make Modular (Zabaz) work but the only wincons were combos in the end. In terms of Upgrading it. The only new modular card was in black so that didn't help.
Question Zone: Maybe an odd question for a commander-focused podcast, but how would you go about encouraging your playgroup to play gamemodes other than commander? I love magic and I like commander, but I really want the full variety that the game offers and most playgroups including my own are commander-only these days, with many players having never even tried another format. I have a cube that I had them draft which went relatively well, but I'd like to do more kitchen table magic, pauper, Canadian highlander, DanDan etc.
QUESTION ZONE Whats you opinion on custom commander variants like oathbreaker? My playgroup has been toying around with ideas of different ways to do it and i'd be interested in what creators like you guys think.
Question Zone: What sorts of designed for commander cards would you like to see in the future? Personally, I think it would be cool to get some more cards like Stinging Study that encourage high CMC commanders. Also, I love the podcast. The topics so far have been top-notch. :) PS. Do you check Spotify comments? I'm guessing not, but that's where I've been listening, so I wondered if I could ask questions there too.
I always tend to lose the interest during the brewing process when I get to the point, where I just start copying cards from EDHREC. Therefore it always feels "empty" for me, whenever I build a deck around a certain commander in mind, because the temptation to just watch on EDHREC. This is way I moved from building around a certain commander to taking a specific interaction, like enchanting a Stuffy Doll with a Pariah or killing players with a "Typhoon" and build a deck around that theme and then look for a commander, that can hold the majority of cards for that strategy and in the best case, even benefit to it. This approach is the only one, that made me keep a deck for more than a few games.
question zone: my LGS has a much higher power level than my pod I usually play with. How can I tune my few decks to hang on at the spicier tables without turning around and stomping my friends the next day?
Stax cards. Creature based specifically. They really affect strongly high powered decks, while bother weaker decks much less. Also, creatures are easiest to get rid of in lower power levels, since they are the most common threat in that environment, than in higher power levels. And just some lower curve aggressive options - you would be surprised, how those high powered decks are vulnerable to repetitive beatings, while keeping in check each others combos. And finally, make your suite of removal and interaction as efficient as possible and there you go! I have a Humans deck, that tbh is a bit expensive (running 350$+ rn), but with fine adjustments and budget cuts can be perfectly viable.
Question Zone - Whats the best way to tell a "power gamer" that their deck is too strong and they need to play another deck for the limited time that we have?
Either you tell them straight up that they should play something that competes at the rest of the table's level, or you just hard target them out of the game until they get the message.
@@vileluca like just win the damn game already. Worst is when they storm off for like 20 minutes and then don't finish you off, so you just swing and kill them.
It does take me a while to build new decks. The only deck I've ever taken apart was an Atraxa deck. It worked well and had good synergies, but it seemed to play itself and I didn't like that. Also, no one likes poison.
Question zone: Have you ever gone to EDHRec to see card suggestions for your commander deck, but then chose to reject those suggestions in favor of a more unique build? If so, how did the deck in the end turn out?
If you all use scryfall often, I would love to know what tips you have for searching for relevant cards with specific tags. What tips do you have for searching scryfall?
Honest ask: do people actually keep their decks around (in paper) for a long time? There are so many commanders and strategies to try, I'm constantly taking my decks apart and building new ones. I can't think of a single deck in my box right now that's been around for more than 4 or 5 play sessions. I can't imagine having the same deck around long enough to be worrying about upgrade-ability.
I’ve had my sephara deck for about 3 years, ayara for close to 3 years, and pharika is well over a year old now. Even judith ive had some iteration of cooking on the backburner for multiple years until i got my current version i play frequently
I've only ever dismantled a deck or two, and that was because I lost inspiration for them while doing adjustments. It's nice to have a bunch of decks on standby for anyone who wants to swap out.
Question Zone! How do you deal with pubstompers in a casual friend group? I play in a very high level pod, but can't ever seem to do anything. My decks are packed with counter and removal, but it doesn't seem to matter.
Think of the reasons why you scrap them, ignore the reasons, finish the deck, then play it a few times. Sometimes, you just have to let decks happen and accept how they turn out. Otherwise, you're going to be stuck with only 2 decks.
kelsian could be pretty fun with a more fun fair build. throw painters class, torbran, tai wakeen. more ping synergie related things rather than just "all your stuff dies all the time" make the other things the problem, not kelsian. kelsian just scores experience and sits while threats go wild.
As someone who somehow plays Tovolar and Kadena as their main decks I feel a little too called out with the “upgradable” tags… they don’t need the upgrades they slap face as is
Thanks again to Card Elk! cardelk.com/magicmirror use code magic mirror for 10% if you want some dry erase tokens!
is 3/3 Elk and Card Elk one of the same?
@@vwoosh4987 nope just both elk themed
Mom, can we keep the Snail? It can be a three-person podcast, I swear.
Mom I second this motion.
Mom please we’ll take care of him we promise
Mom, I promise I'll feed it
Look Mom, I took all the salt out of the ENTIRE house... You gotta let us keep 'em! You gotta!
But mommmm He looks so polite and distinguished!
Make snail a permanent part of the show. The 3 of you have great takes on the game. You all deserve so many more subscribers
Oh no, the monkey paw curled on our wishes for snail to be a part of the pod😂
Snail Man is him. I have for years only played competitive 60 card formats. Grasping commander was a bit hard for me initially, not only because of the different elements of FFA but also putting having fun in the center of everything instead of just building the most brutal decks. Snail Man helped me a lot with his well explained thoughts and examples! Thanks Snail Man!
I brew far more decks than I actually play. The disparity usually results from budget reasons -- I don't like to compromise on a vision for a deck and sometimes a deck is far too expensive to actual build in paper. Other times a deck feels it lacks important pieces (for example, card draw) that synergize with the theme and can only be filled with generic staples.
Gotta proxy that shit up, friend. I do get that feeling. About 2 years ago I brewed up 10 decks and put them together. Proxies of course because there is no reason to pay for real cards.
I think it was a great lesson because I played with some of the decks enough to figure out all of their flaws over that timespan. I then went in and was able to yoink out every card that had sat dead in my hand every game. One of the reasons I found that cards were fairly dead is they relied to heavily on a synergy piece that didn't show up often enough in the deck, or the card draw wasn't there to allow me to have the engine going, or there wasn't enough ramp. The fun part was realizing just how many interesting and synergistic ways to accomplish all of those things. That said, I found it to be nice when I had some choices on synergy draw, ramp, and removal, and then being able to run one or two that don't require the synergy since that usually means you are paying more for those extra effects on a card. It kept the curve lower, and stopped me from flailing while I was behind.
Give yourself a strict budget (I recommend 30€ avg magic card market price) and accept it as a challenge rather than a limitation.
It's like poetry: the beauty emerges from the restrictions.
@@vincentbatten4686 not to argue against proxies, I think those are fine, but you don't have to even go through the effort of printing them out (or even scribbling on pieces of paper and putting them into sleeves with random cards) because you can just goldfish decks online.
The first deck draft is always always complete trash and you realize in the first couple of tries what cards just don't work (or even having to refocus the entire deck).
I use moxfield but I'm sure archidekt also has a playtest-mode and there's likely others as well.
I definitely brew more than I actually build, but I do keep a physical deck for each color. (32 decks)
I also make sure a mechanical theme is never repeated, like if I have a +1/+1 counter theme in one deck, I don't want multiple +1/+1 decks.
Commanders that are open for interpretation are definitely better... like Zedruu for example is just so much better as a Curse commander than Lynde because she's open to that interpretation, not pigeonholed into it.
Just built a Zedruu deck myself, she might not be the strongest but she’s definitely the most fun deck I own now
3:56 I am this person, I have around 150 finished decks (and a dozen or so unfinished decks) in my EDH folder on moxfield, and I've only been using moxfield for deckbuilding for the past 2 years. I have been playing and brewing EDH since 2018 and I need another hobby desperately
Play the decks online to try how they interact with other people
The type of content you guys make is far more interesting than what most creators are putting out. This podcast is fantastic. Keep up the good, guys. I brew a lot, but very rarely commit any of it to paper.
The animal kingdom takes over the Podcast. Fascinating.
Snail was the first deck building TH-camr I really started watching, and all of you guys in a single podcast is my dream. I hope he comes back often!
That misunderstanding on glimpse the unthinkable/impossible was cute 😅
I honestly love narrow decks becauae i dont have to worry about upgrading them alot and they short of show off mechanics
I feel this. I have a Peregrin Spore counters deck that plays around the old fungi and proliferating and it's one of those decks that plays just fine as is. Not a lot of outright wincons but it synergizes insanely well with itself
Speaking of upgradability, I have two decks on either end of this spectrum and absolutely love them both. Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker gets a new card in every set, which is fun to explore. Then I have Blind Seer which virtually never gets anything new, but there's something comforting about having a deck that I never have to change or upgrade. I think my other decks land somewhere in the middle.
I enjoyed snail's thoughts and wouldn't mind seeing him again
4:21 I’ve brewed many decks that I never played but when I chose to print a deck I find the larger the selection of unplayed decks the better the final draft is.
I'm glad this Wick, the Whorled Mind podcast played another Rat.
Deck driver mtg needs to be on this podcast aswell. The four of you❤
3 excellent fresh minds in the magic creator community.
Question Zone: What are your favorite multiplayer themes? i.e. Goad, Myriad, Monarch, etc.
Worse yet for lynde, wizards printed "enchant opponent with negative effects that are indistinguishable from curse" in Duskmorne since it fits the same theme, except they said curses were an innistrad thing so they didn't give them the type "curse", even though it literally is.
RIP Lynde
This is why I never switched my curses deck over to Lynde from Ghen. Sure ghen isn't the prime colours for curses anymore, but his ability is simple and more broad, so you can use the non-typed "curses" as well. Then again, sometimes it's okay to have decks you don't have to upgrade constantly.
I have a shirei deck that pretty consistently locked my opponents out of creatures. Everyone hated it, obviously. Now I took out the bone shredders etc and I just play normal removal and wipes, it is so much more fun for me to play now because everyone doesn't hate it. Snail, it was actually your video "stop turning your commander into a combo piece" that inspired the change
Just proxy the cards you need for Yoshimaru. Snail you sound super excited to make that deck so do it and use proxies for the expensive cards wotc should be reprinting. Especially if they're lands
Before I get to the actual comment, just wanted to quickly wish Trinket luck with the place he's moving into and hope he finds it a pleasant place.
"A deck for every kind of day" is my general motivation for building decks. In an ideal world of infinite money, time and patience, I would have a deck for every archetype in Magic that I could play on-command whenever I feel like. Because I don't live in that world, the decks that aren't in my favourite archetypes like Aristocrats or Reanimator have to be built versatile in their playstyle. More specifically, decks that are built around engines that can change their decklists to suit the flavour of the week. Toolbox-commanders for example are great for this. Decks like Zur and Sisay for example are basically just tutors that fetch "the thing" the deck is built around, so you build your deck around this core of tutors to do whatever it is you want the commanders to help you accomplish.
Currently, I have begun work on an Esika, God of the Tree deck, which is basically just a polymorph deck, that seeks to boss-rush the opponents to death. There are 20 slots reserved for creatures in the deck, but these can be literally anything. I could just run Eldrazi to overrun the board, but they could also be a more specialized set of creatures as well. You could do other tribes of big bunguses like Demons, Slivers, Dinosaurs, you name it. You could use cards like Etali (both of them, really), Valki, the new Valgavoth and maybe some blink-enablers to truly embrace the randomness of the deck by flipping into cards that flip into your opponents' cards. You could run cards like the Jin-Gitaxias cards and other staxey creatures to create an endless stream of stop-gaps to make it impossible for the opponents to play. Hell, you could just do nothing but run one copy of Timestream Navigator in the main deck and try to make a deck around infinitely looping extra turns for the win. I chose Esika to be the commander, because with 5 colours in play, nothing's out of the question. I can use whatever creatures and enable them with whatever pieces I need to become whatever I want it to be under the natural constraints of being a polymorph deck.
8:45 This is the reason why I disassembled my beloved Muzzio deck. The format just outpaced it, and most of the new cool artifact bombs to run in it are too expensive to consider (Portal to Phyrexia and Cityscape Leveler, pls, my wallet).
It's since been repurposed into a more generically useful artifacts deck under Sharuum, and Muzzio lives on in the 99!
I think "combat tricks" decks can be everyone's salvation. It's fun, all the games are different, you can build them for cheap and you can put a variety of non-oriented combat cards in it.
It is more fun to create a unique concept than to pilot it, especially since popular strategy is to include more interaction than ever before. My absolute favorites i build, buy most i just proxy or never build.
Also something to note, as someone who enjoys brewing more because I don't get to play that often, I don't actually use scryfall or arkidekt, I dig through my collection and start throwing decks together. Once a month or so I'll go on TCGplayer and spend 10-20$ on random cards, some I'm like "Oh, this would be cool to put in this deck" or "Oh, this is a commander I'd like to make a deck around."
It's a very fun way to build, and I probably end up using more cards that would never end up in normal decks, due to being limited to paper.
I only play online, where setting up a deck is as easy as plugging a Moxfield link into the program. No exaggeration, I build a new commander deck every week. Sometimes for a friend who does not have time to build their own decks, but usually for myself. I will play it once, see if the strategy is compelling, tweak the list, but more often than not leave the deck on the shelf to be deleted later. Sometimes, if I do not play (m)any games that week, I will not even test the deck before moving on to another build. The compelling strategies get brought back out every once in a while, but a pod containing at least two new lists is the norm for my group.
Totally agree on the point where we need to go back to having a few core decks we care about
core set 2020 mentioned! love that set.
I have dismantled several decks recently.
Giada angels - theme is cool, but the play pattern is VERY linear and the deck kinda just plays itself.
Eowyn knights/humans - while it was a fun deck, I made it way, waay too commander centric, and after figuring out just how much I would have to change to make it work, I gave up on it.
Marneus Calgar - after spending a couple months tinkering with the deck, I figured out that the only directions I can really go with it would be to lean heavily into aristocrats, which I severely dislike piloting, or commander centric infinites/draw your entire library combos, which is not what I wish to be doing in commander
I have experienced all three decks myself - Giada on the other side of a table and Eowyn/Marneus are the decks in my own arsenal. Giada is really boring tbh if it falls back. Eowyn yes, can be a bit commander dependant, but Humans core is already solid, so I am still keeping the deck (maybe it would want a bit of rework, but whatever).
Marneus is constructed more in a fashion of token/midrange with solid draw and removal packages - quite resilient and nice to play against. No aristocrats stupidity, no token doublers (apart from that phyrexian, which I traded from my friend) and other generic token stuff. Also may be commander dependant, but can absolutely operate on its own without involving Marneus.
I have 19 paper EDH decks assembled of varied power levels/themes. 30-40 decks that have been dismantled for various reasons. I love the deckbuilding process and tweaking decks after a few weeks of playing. Generally what makes a deck worth building to me with a commander that catches my interest.
I have an un-upgradeable deck which is rakdos Minotaurs with neheb the worthy at the helm. The most upgrades that I can do is the mana base when the expensive lands get reprinted. Its one of these decks that I wish I could upgrade it, but Minotaurs are just creatures WOTC's prints when they don't want a human. Also, the tribe has with no good 1 or 2 drops which makes me cry.
This topic was tailor made for me!
High turnover rate of decks I build, guilty as charged haha
Specifically building decks that are an intellectually interesting idea but when you sit down to the table they flounder or do the niche thing and the fun is gone.
I used to brew a lot of 60 decks, but it takes so much longer for me to get together 100 different cards that I like, so I don't brew a whole deck unless I strongly consider buying it. And then I have to play test and goldfish a super budget version before committing to upgrades.
Two decks that came to mind that didn't get into the paper phase were Awaken the Blood Avatar and Jadzi Storm. Blood Avatar was just too arch enemy coded, having a repeatable edict in the command zone that also kills everyone. Then Jadzi didn't get past gold fishing when my first storm turn took an hour.
Question Zone Question: Do you guys actually enjoy editing other peoples decks ? I know you get asked constantly to improve someone elses deck. Hearing you guys talk about your own decks makes it very clear that you care alot about personal expression through deckbuilding.
thanks for the podcast it brings me great joy
PS: adopt the snail as a permanent member, thanks.
Good luck on your move Khan!
Thanks! Also I actually spell my name Kaan!
me, building multiple mutate decks, knowing full-well the keyword will likely never see the light of day again (i'm happy)
Well, I have 3,5 Humans decks with potentially 3-4 overhauls incoming. Good to be a Mankind fan.
Mutate is just so cool though
52:20 This is something I run into A LOT whenever people complain about layers. Everybody sees how Humility affects (or rather, doesn’t affect) Bello or Magus of the Moon, and they immediately want SOMETHING to change, and start suggesting things that just don't work.
I'm not gonna go through all of them, but one I find hilarious is just how many people say "Just say it works intuitively", as if it's just that easy. Like, if you think about it for more than 0.5 seconds, "Player interpretation should be the sole thing that decides how cards interact" is fucking awful.
My Grothama deck also usually casts him and kills him immediately. Drawing 10 cards can make a deck pretty consistent.
(I like the deck cause I get to play little +X/+X combat tricks I wouldn't otherwise. He's a fun one to protect.)
Question zone: what are some of your favorite cards that never quite make it into your deck-lists? For example, mine is “inner calm, outer strength”, where the difference of it drawing 1 card and not drawing a card is the only factor keeping it out of one of my decks.
1:20 or just doodle on them when its not your turn XD he just like me for real for real
Question Zone:
Do you have a character from magic lore that you'd like a card of or another card for that already exists? (For example, I would like to see a new Jareth, Leonine Titan with a modern commander design)
Also, I think it'd be fun to call the section the TCC or the Thought Courier's Corner (branding unrelated to another famous TCC initialism). Just a 3/3 Elk and a Trinket Mage brought mail by the Thought Courier. "What does the Thought Courier have for us today?"
As someone who’s brewed and built/played 100 decks or so some definitely translate to game play fun better than others and I’ve never brewed for the sake of it and not run the deck and only brew what I find as interesting or fun to me so I relatively enjoyed them all but my playstyle isn’t tied to one deck as my whole identity so I switch it up frequently. The thing that I watch is my OPPs reactions to my lines or win cons or interaction
I have a Zurzoth deck and Kelsien deck, but mine revolves around other cards than u would normally put on them and it gets a lot more consistency and less revolving around it for when they get removed a lot
9:20 they just did this with the 5c room commander. Frame 1 they put out the blanket room commander, and I'm not super sure we are gonna get a ton of new rooms coming in.
Both bland design, and design that probably won't scale.
Honestly, that's probably an offshoot of getting requests to print commanders for every set theme.
In order to keep the game fresh, they keep making new themes, some of which aren't intended to see future support as their role is to be interesting in limited.
See: Rooms, Forage, Valiant, Disguise/Cloak, Descend
100 proxy decks in a year type guy here.
I don't build my decks for upgradability, I just build them so I can pull them out a year from now for a game or three and it'll hold up. Now, thats not to say I don't upgrade the decks I REALLY like and keep returning to, its just that upgradability is less of a factor for me.
I actually don't check edhrec until im VERY close to a deck being done. If im really struggling for a specific slot, ill do my searches with edhrec sort on, but until the deck is finished and in need of repair, I won't touch it.
For me, flavor of the month takes the form of half decks, decks I add all the synergy pieces to and then never finish. I really try and print and play all the decks I finish, my backlog is with old commanders I wasn't there to see release.
Question zone: What are your thoughts on, and do you think WOTC will do if anything about the 70 never printed tokens?
I think Legendary was considered an intentional drawback for strong cards, to limit their use in 60-card formats. For instance, you might only want to play 3 copies of OG Thalia, to avoid drawing dead cards.
The EDHREC hipster effect is real. My pet card that no one plays is Crackleburr in Riku of Two Reflections.
I never get to play edh anymore but I still follow these sorts of channels and think about and build decks. I don't buy them in paper anymore. At least not until I am perfectly happy with a new idea which has not yet happened.
I brewed a lot of decks, hundreds, but the few ones I actually ended up building and keeping were decks that at the same time did something unique, have almost no cards and strategies in common with my other decks, and are flexible and open enough to play differently every game, so tough bar to clear. Still ended up with a dozen decks in my collection though 😅
One advantage of having spare decks i don't play much is that i have something to lend a friend who doesn't have there deck with them.
question zone: have you ever had a card/mechanic that inspired you to build a deck around it (like sunforager for example)?
YES
@@thetrinketmage I made (like the example) a sunforager akiri/Silas control Voltron list and it was very very good and awesome to pilot
4:30 then there's me sitting here with 52 paper commander decks ahaaaaa
Dang, I run vilis and drakuseth in the same list, didn’t even realize they were in the same cycle
Hey guys!
I think you should probably have the face icons of the people in the podcast be smaller in favor of more room for the cards being talked about.
During the cast, I (a listener on TH-cam) wasn't sure what Yoshimaru did so I turned to look at my phone and although Yosh was on screen I still had trouble reading the card and had to pause to make sure it didn't leave the screen.
While this is not an issue all people will have, I believe you should still put more focus on the cards given the fact that they're the one topic we are talking about :)
I wanted a +1+1 deck not in green. Tried for a so long to make Modular (Zabaz) work but the only wincons were combos in the end. In terms of Upgrading it. The only new modular card was in black so that didn't help.
On the Kelsien Deck, since there are new EXP Legendarys the Deck has gotten a lot better.
Question Zone: Maybe an odd question for a commander-focused podcast, but how would you go about encouraging your playgroup to play gamemodes other than commander? I love magic and I like commander, but I really want the full variety that the game offers and most playgroups including my own are commander-only these days, with many players having never even tried another format. I have a cube that I had them draft which went relatively well, but I'd like to do more kitchen table magic, pauper, Canadian highlander, DanDan etc.
I have my core set of 5 decks (Atraxa, Gishath, Edgar Markov, Butcher Kozilek, Skittles) and will never take them apart.
I also play Raphael in my Malfegor deck :3 I use him to offset Bolas' citadel. If I have no cards in my hand I'll play from the top of my deck ezpz.
QUESTION ZONE
Whats you opinion on custom commander variants like oathbreaker?
My playgroup has been toying around with ideas of different ways to do it and i'd be interested in what creators like you guys think.
Question Zone: What sorts of designed for commander cards would you like to see in the future? Personally, I think it would be cool to get some more cards like Stinging Study that encourage high CMC commanders.
Also, I love the podcast. The topics so far have been top-notch. :)
PS. Do you check Spotify comments? I'm guessing not, but that's where I've been listening, so I wondered if I could ask questions there too.
we do check spotify comments.
@@33elk awesome! Thanks for letting me know.
I always tend to lose the interest during the brewing process when I get to the point, where I just start copying cards from EDHREC. Therefore it always feels "empty" for me, whenever I build a deck around a certain commander in mind, because the temptation to just watch on EDHREC. This is way I moved from building around a certain commander to taking a specific interaction, like enchanting a Stuffy Doll with a Pariah or killing players with a "Typhoon" and build a deck around that theme and then look for a commander, that can hold the majority of cards for that strategy and in the best case, even benefit to it. This approach is the only one, that made me keep a deck for more than a few games.
Prime deck building isn’t really deck building. It’s cube. I’ve been advocating to people with newly banned cards to put them into a cube.
Minute 37 is fire
i was reading the auto subtitles and it said "band talks" and i thought that the three of them were dicussing becoming a band lmao
question zone: my LGS has a much higher power level than my pod I usually play with. How can I tune my few decks to hang on at the spicier tables without turning around and stomping my friends the next day?
Stax cards. Creature based specifically. They really affect strongly high powered decks, while bother weaker decks much less. Also, creatures are easiest to get rid of in lower power levels, since they are the most common threat in that environment, than in higher power levels. And just some lower curve aggressive options - you would be surprised, how those high powered decks are vulnerable to repetitive beatings, while keeping in check each others combos. And finally, make your suite of removal and interaction as efficient as possible and there you go!
I have a Humans deck, that tbh is a bit expensive (running 350$+ rn), but with fine adjustments and budget cuts can be perfectly viable.
Good luck on your move!
Question Zone - Whats the best way to tell a "power gamer" that their deck is too strong and they need to play another deck for the limited time that we have?
"on a power level scale of 7 to 7, your deck is an 8"
Either you tell them straight up that they should play something that competes at the rest of the table's level, or you just hard target them out of the game until they get the message.
3:50 its 281 thank you and i feel attacked. To be fair i do brew for all my friends decks too.
I think Rhystic studies is underrated in 1v1. In Historic Brawl anyways it is quite good imo
i love elk contantly throwing shade to the question zone. its a fantastic awful name
question zone. what themes do you find so overplayed as to become uninteresting for you to want to play/build if any.
Artifacts, landfall, and anything too common. It's hard to see any variance in the decklists I've seen in my local area.
I'm so sick of storm.
@@vileluca like just win the damn game already. Worst is when they storm off for like 20 minutes and then don't finish you off, so you just swing and kill them.
Question Zone - not magic related but what is your personal favorite/best pizza?
It does take me a while to build new decks. The only deck I've ever taken apart was an Atraxa deck. It worked well and had good synergies, but it seemed to play itself and I didn't like that. Also, no one likes poison.
thoughts on torbrand plus arabella
Question zone: Have you ever gone to EDHRec to see card suggestions for your commander deck, but then chose to reject those suggestions in favor of a more unique build? If so, how did the deck in the end turn out?
I just want my decks to DO THE THING
My brother in christ your decks thing is winning.
If you all use scryfall often, I would love to know what tips you have for searching for relevant cards with specific tags. What tips do you have for searching scryfall?
I made a video about this on my channel! My deckbuilding video! :D
oh boy, so many decks was very good in my head, but table didnt liked it - was been there so many times :D
Honest ask: do people actually keep their decks around (in paper) for a long time? There are so many commanders and strategies to try, I'm constantly taking my decks apart and building new ones. I can't think of a single deck in my box right now that's been around for more than 4 or 5 play sessions. I can't imagine having the same deck around long enough to be worrying about upgrade-ability.
I’ve had my sephara deck for about 3 years, ayara for close to 3 years, and pharika is well over a year old now. Even judith ive had some iteration of cooking on the backburner for multiple years until i got my current version i play frequently
Once I build a deck, it is there. Havent dis-assembled a single one yet. Maybe overhaul is needed for some, but not complete dismantling.
I've only ever dismantled a deck or two, and that was because I lost inspiration for them while doing adjustments. It's nice to have a bunch of decks on standby for anyone who wants to swap out.
Question Zone! How do you deal with pubstompers in a casual friend group? I play in a very high level pod, but can't ever seem to do anything. My decks are packed with counter and removal, but it doesn't seem to matter.
Stop playing with them until they adjust their behavior.
im so upset about the maro ruling, they made a NEW curse but didnt add the curse tag
I have like 40 decks and i play like 5 and sometimes rotate between the other 35 but rarely do. It's an issue.
I have a Raphael deck
It's INSANE
Any chance you’d like to link your Radha RG deck?
I’m a simple man. I see Kelsien the plague, I click.
I only have two decks that I play, and I want to build more but I keep trying to brew and scrapping the idea for any number of reasons. I need help.
Think of the reasons why you scrap them, ignore the reasons, finish the deck, then play it a few times. Sometimes, you just have to let decks happen and accept how they turn out. Otherwise, you're going to be stuck with only 2 decks.
kelsian could be pretty fun with a more fun fair build. throw painters class, torbran, tai wakeen. more ping synergie related things rather than just "all your stuff dies all the time"
make the other things the problem, not kelsian. kelsian just scores experience and sits while threats go wild.
Top 2 TH-camr crossover :)
wait what ?? how havent i seen this podcast?
As someone who somehow plays Tovolar and Kadena as their main decks I feel a little too called out with the “upgradable” tags… they don’t need the upgrades they slap face as is
I have never been this early to a video - literally 0 comments o-o
Same!
Honestly instants are my least favorite card type because they feel like bricks. So any blue instant based combo deck i just cant
KEEP THE NAME QUESTION ZONE!!!
Call it The QZ
What if instead of the question zone you called it "in response"
thier are draft only curses that have been printed