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I have 30k battles in wows and my advise dont start to play game , is a shit show now , honeymoon period is over and now they cash out , so is not worth to start play game now.
As soon as she grounded, the XO had everyone involved stop immediately and write down everything that just happened. He knew having it recorded fresh and not relying on later memory would be critical for the investigation and court martial. How he handled the aftermath of the incident was instrumental in his exoneration.
Ahh so you’re rewarded for being a coward and slimy and throwing everyone else under the bus in the military, I guess I knew that it’s just weird you make it sound like a good thing
The 2013 crash of Asiana Air Flight 214 at SFO was blamed on the FO being afraid to contradict the captain. Three people died and nearly 200 were injured.
@@JarrodFrates It seemed unfair to me to put the whole blame on the FO considering the captain made the initial mistake. At least, they should share the blame. I decided to look it up on Wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know...I didn't want to take a lot of time), and what they described was different. The left (Captain's) seat was occupied by a captain getting his Initial Operating Experience. The right (Flight Officer) was occupied by a captain who was the trainer/instructor/Pilot in Charge. While there was mismanagement in the cockpit, there was also poor training of this airlines' pilots in visual landings (the airline preferred to let the computer do the work, but SFO's ILM was down, so the pilots had to land visually), and poor understanding of the various modes of automatic systems (pilots thought the autothrottle was active when it wasn't).
@@rilmar2137Tenerife was caused by the entire KLM crew developing a sudden case of what the industry calls “get-there-itis” (running out of time and in that case wanting to get in the air as soon as possible, in most cases of “get-there-itis” they want to get on the ground as soon as possible)
The correct way to think of command is that you take all the blame of a failure, and praise the team on success. Everyone _knows_ it takes a good leader to make a good team anyway. But if you think of command as power instead of responsibility, you get disaster. Passing blame means no one will do anything to help you, and depending on situation, you will also get corruption.
So the exact opposite of what the first officer did, yet he’s supposed to be “good” in this scenario, why? Because he blamed everyone else so he wouldn’t get in trouble
@@goldenhate6649 Get to a certain point, and promotions have more to do with office politics than skill. They say every man is promoted to one rank above what he is qualified for.
@@justicedunham4088 I've seen that in Navy enlisted as well. Instead of increasing a Sailor's pay based on their time in, experience, and expertise at a job, they promote Sailors up the pay grades which means progressively less doing your job and progressively more managing other people. Sounds great if you are a paper-pusher/middle-management type, sucks if you are a hands-dirty/doing-the-work type. For the hands-on sorts it sucks because they are now doing jobs they don't enjoy and are not necessarily qualified for.
There is a fantastic interview with the Missouri crew, which was on the bridge that day. The helmsmen and navigator had been in and out of there several times. BOTH tried warning this "new" Captain. Nut this Captain wasn't having any lower enlisted second guess his orders. So... on to ground she went.
@@david-468 They didn't want their ship to run-aground. It was their job to speak up when necessary. They weren't afraid to tell the truth, even if the one it was directed to didn't want to hear it.
I imagine the XO seeing the sandbank.. and looking the other way. "Full ahead guys, Captain's orders are followed without delay and without questions".
thats what military members mean when they say pulling rank, its that your relying on rank to order troops instead of leadership, instead of allowing said crew to report that it might be a bad idea or how to do better...
The XO, Commander George Peckham, ended up getting court martialed along with the captain and a few others. Peckham was exonerated, stayed at sea, and eventually made a rear admiral. Captain William Browne took a plea deal (after spending most of his court martial testimony trying to blame his crew) that pushed him 250 slots down the promotion list, ensuring that he would never make admiral. He was transferred to shore duty until he left the Navy four years later. Edit: I confused Peckham with another officer that was reduced in numbers (pushed down the promotion list).
@twerkingbollocks6661 Damn! I usually don't make those kind of stupid mistakes. Thanks for letting me know so I don't make the same mistake in front of people I really know.
Minor thing but the scene looking out of the bridge at 4 barrel turrets hurts. Missouri is an Iowa class armed with triples, at least for battleships the US never used quads. From memory only a few French battleships did though i may have forgotten others.
French battleships had Two Quadruple turrets forward. The British King George the V classes had Two Quad fours (In A,X) and a Twin with the twin super firing (B) over the bow Quadruple turret
@@Pointclearius Your labeling is slightly off. The King George V-class had turrets A and Y as quads. X is the first main turret aft of the superstructure, which on those was a twin-gun turret superfiring over the quad Y, just as the forward twin-gun B turret superfired over the quad A. (Wing turrets were usually labeled P and Q in the Royal Navy, though KGVs didn't have them.) The US numbered theirs (but never used wing turrets), and the Germans had an alphabetic system that seems to go clockwise: the Kaiser-class had A forward, B for the starboard wing, C and D for the aft turrets, then E for the port wing. France numbered theirs, even when they did have wing turrets, counting front to back, port to starboard.
@@JarrodFrates You're correct that the aft turret on the King George V-class (1939) was 'Y' turret, however there was no superfiring twin turret aft. From the bow, there were 'A' turret (quad), 'B' turret (twin, superfiring over 'A'), the superstructure, and 'Y' turret (quad).
The guns are spaced evenly so they don't look like the French turrets though. French BB turrets had a large armor plate between the 2nd and 3rd gun, intended to prevent the whole turret to be taken out by a single hit or misfire.
I think they just pushed the "casual" a bit too hard. It was a nice story, easy to retell without too much effort. Much like this videos sponsor, that also is not that much into getting the details correct.
And you can still visit USS Missouri, she's now a museum ship in Pearl Harbor. In fact all of the Iowa-Class were preserved. USS Iowa is in the Port of Los Angeles, USS New Jersey is in Camden, New Jersey right across the river from Philadelphia, and USS Wisconsin is in Norfolk, Virginia.
@@alexanderf8451Pretty sure the ships sit lower than the depths of the Mississippi, and they're too long to fit in the locks connecting the Great Lakes to the Atlantic.
I visited the Missouri when she was moored at Bremerton. That's what I'm told anyway. I was maybe 2yo. I had a T-shirt that I lost somewhere along the way.
Coolest class the USN ever built, if you ask me. Yeah, yeah, we can get the job done (and then some) with cruisers, destroyers and subs... but you can't beat a full broadside with 16-inch cannons for coolness.
Aviation has/had the same exact problem - the captain of the plane often was in total command, and many accidents happened because the crewmembers, often too afraid to speak up, simply flew the plane into their demise. In the late 80s and 90s, the FAA and others realized this and instituted Crew Resource Management (CRM) in which rank is more of a formality but everyone had a voice - if anyone saw anything, they should speak up and be heard if it impacted the safety of the flight. It had an effect but unfortunately CRM is not the standard everywhere - many other places outside the Americas and Europe were much slower to adopt CRM - either by cultural norms (you defer to your senior) or it wasn't a thing. These days, it's mandatory but CRM failures still happen because the captain (coming usually from military or otherwise) still believes in their absolute control, but attitudes are slowly changing.
I wonder if naval have similar program as CRM, actually Aviation is the best industry in case of CRM even at "many other places" , I have learned some manufacture, hospital especially surgery room have adopted some form of CRM. but I didn't know much about naval. giving the similarity between sea and air, it should be easy to adopt to?
Q: How Many Tugs Does It Take To Move A Battleship? A: It depends on how strong the tug is. If it’s a tug of war, then it might take a lot of people to pull the battleship. If it’s a tug boat, then it might take only one or two to push the battleship. And if it’s a tug of love, then it might take just one kiss to move the battleship.
@@jeremiec8014When a senior naval officer can look out the window and see a subordinate's glaring mistake before even going to the head in the morning, and then read the "No progress on moving Missouri yet" headline in the civilian newspaper over breakfast... That can't make for a happy naval leader.
Classic case of crew resource [mis]management. Luckily the captain only embarrasses himself in full view of the retired senior officers of the armed forces in their retirement homes. In commercial airplanes it usually results in a crash.
I didnt know state managed to beach herself for 2 weeks. I guess she doesnt want any of her statesmen to know some of her more embarrassing moments Random fun fact:the fact that MO's currently residing in Pearl Harbor(500 feet away from the Arizona) is meant to symbolize the beginning and end of the war. On top of that her forward main gun is always point towards Arizona's monument and wreakage to symbolize shes watching over her and her crew
LOL, I imagine the captain wasn't liked much among his peers so I wouldn't be surprised if the event was an opportunity to mock him. To fumble so much and run aground mostly because he was dismissive of his sailors is such an embarrassment to the captain. All in all it turned out a good training exercise in loading/unloading, hauling etc. but the most valuable lesson is to listen to the people under one's command as they often know more than one does and are more than capable to make decisions on their own.
Another comment by ecstasyofgold888 mentioned the guy was court martialed and no longer up for promotion (moved down 250 spots or so, at that rank I guess end of next rank in his career or worse). The second in command of the ship was claimed to be exonerated due to having warned the captain and retired as a rear admiral. Mildly surprised about actual consequences and not some random person being blamed for it, I suppose it being so nicely in view from land by senior leadership to make it even more obvious made it hard to bury? Or maybe the US navy kinda works well and doesn't just let people fail yet still get promoted/stay in their job.
@@extrastuff9463 It's pretty consistent in the USN that if your ship/boat hits something it's not supposed to hit, you're done. See the results of destroyer collisions in the last couple years, subs hitting seamounts, subs landing on japanese fishing vessels, and so on.
Well, we’re gonna find out all about this when USS New Jersey goes to dry dock at some point next year! New Jersey is an Iowa class battleship, as is Missouri, for those who may not know.
I do wonder what its like under the NJ atm, When they drydocked the USS Intrepid up in New York they found the ship was sitting on a lot of silt and debris. And the Delaware River just like the Hudson has a good stiff current to push stuff under the ship which is what happened to Intrepid. Years and years of just sitting there things built up from the current.
New Jersey did have divers go under the ship earlier this year - they said that the bottom is well clear of the hull, and that the hull itself still looks good. They shouldn’t really have any issues with getting her out into the channel. The Intrepid situation was definitely far more challenging - as I understand it, she was packed up to well past her screws in the mud.
I only work on ferries right now but it's absolutely true the the master of the vessel and the chief mate, make the environment. If we don't feel like we can talk to them, things can fester and become huge problems when they never should be. It's wild what the human ego does.
7:34 - This is the biggest problem with leadership in basically ALL corporations and crafts. Managers, supervisors, captains, commanders, etc., Think that they know everything and have to make ALL the decisions. Not realizing that they are just one part of the TEAM, and all together, with expertise and experience from ALL employment levels, is how work is done the absolute best.
It always terrifies me that antileaders like that get promoted to places where no one can override them. There is so much wrong with how he captained I can't comprehend how he functioned under someone else's command.
He most likely did exactly what he was told and showed those orders down the line like they were gods commandments. Adding in an unhealthy amount of ass licking and socializing in the right circles. If something went wrong, it was the commanders fault. Unfortunately a lesson he never learned from because it is entirely possible for someone else than the commander to be at fault by simply expecting everything everyone does or doesn't do makes them liable. And thusly listening to your subordinates every report and every concern. Unfortunately, this commanders example is replicated all over the world because when most people are put in a position of leadership they turn into the worst people imaginable.
@@RealCaddeI've yet to see any case where someone changed because they got into a position of leadership. In fact, most people fail in positions of leadership because they can't make the hard decisions that will upset a few people while protecting the group as a whole. When I do see someone claiming an individual "changed" when going into leadership, it's because the person making that claim didn't get something they wanted. Either special favoritism as a "friend" of the newly minted leader, or to not have important rules enforced. The few times I do see someone "become" a worse person when in leadership positions, they were already that way, and it was obvious to all who knew them. In the non-military side of government, they get there because a lot of people who didn't really know some jerk elected that jerk and that jerk in turn put other jerks in appointed positions and so on down the chain. In business it more often emerges because the person at the top brought (or was perceived to bring) financial success elsewhere and was brought in. Such people sometimes don't bother to get to know people and just paint-by-numbers the promotions and hiring without getting to know the new managers they are creating. And in some cases the jerk just outright buys the top job by stock investment. Military doesn't really work that way. There is officer training where you have to pass through tests. There are lower leadership ranks where you have to demonstrate your capabilities. And they put a stop to buying command too long before this happened for it to reasonably have been a factor. The success rate of military in building good leadership is a well known and understood quantity for those of us outside the military who hire from those who honorably discharge. There is some authoritarianism that causes chafing with civilian employees so you have to put them in mid level management first, but not to the extreme of punishing people for giving information. There are always exceptions, but they stand out because of how much their former commanders had to have screwed up to let them get that high up. I do realize those make it into stories and movies a lot, but that's a result of the "man bites dog" effect. Barely anybody makes movies about a normal day where nothing out of the ordinary happens, so incompetent commanders who don't listen to anyone like those in the Crimean War became a trope. Drawn into focus because it was noteworthy rather than because it was the rule, but then morphed into an easy tool to create conflict in a story and overused to the point where it seems common. If it really were the norm in the military, he wouldn't have been court martialed while his XO was exonerated.
I can just imagine the reactions of the people watching this occur at the nearby base... "Nothing to see here, just standard American maneuvers..." "*These* are the people who helped us win the war??" "Well, Missouri *is* a landlocked state, after all..."
Great video! Just a slight critic, the Missouri has her guns in triple mounts... not quad. But other than that, great job! Never heard of this story before.
It does make one often wonder: How many ships went down over the centuries because the captain/master of the ship ignored their crew? If the commander of the Mighty MO had not been an a-hole, the ship would likely have never run aground.
The Germans lost at least one u-boat to an embarrassed captain who tried to flush the toilet by himself and sank the boat. Command mismanagement has cost the world more than a few warships.
When I was a college student over forty years ago one of my professors had been a lieutenant on the Missouri when this happened. We could sometimes get him talking about this instead of the days lesson in kinematics.
Great video. Another good resource for topics like this is Shipboard Bridge Resource Management by Michael R. Adams. It delves into many of the aspects of command climate with a bunch of case studies like the Exon Valdez and USS Dwight D. Eisenhower. Can't wait to see what your next video is.
00:54 It is unfortunate to report that the USS Missouri is, infact, Obsolete in World of Warships. She has been Powercrept by other Nations' ships (which get stronger and stronger the later theyre added to the game, because you can only balance this game so much before ships become copies of eachother) as well as not recieving reworks that were done to the Mainline US Battleship Branch (Which cointains the Iowa)
This reminds me of something that always stuck with me. Years ago I was reading an article that made mentioned that in the US Navy, if you run aground for any reason, your career is basicly over. Nobody will want to give a ship to someone who did, even if it was unforeseen and they were in the clear. Apparently, the US Navy still believes in luck (see submariners). I do not know if this is, or ever was, actually true. But I always felt that it seemed a little unfair and would certainly make me a little paranoid if I was captaining a ship for 'em. But I can't help but think this incident led to the creation of that rumor and/or fact.
99% of the time, running aground is a crew error and ultimately, captain error. Our warships have sonar, they can map the depths in front of them and plan accordingly.
“Battleship New Jersey formerly received operating support from the New Jersey Department of State, as well as a number of private individuals, like yourselves."
This was a great video very informative, intresting and amusing. I would love to see more content on how a poor atmosphere can cause mistakes regardless of the safety measures we put in place to avoid mistakes like this
@@beeble2003 but reading that is not as good as a casual navigation vid, aircraft often tend to crash without the possibility of evacuation or repair many ships get in the same situation so things like first hand acounts become limited
@@jordansimms6213 Agreed. Sorry that my reply was rather curt. I meant that CRM in aviation is essentially the same as whatever they call it in shipping, not that reading a bunch of stuff is essentially the same as watching a well-written, well-presented video like these.
I don't even want to imagine the embarrassment of running a battleship into a sandbank in front of senior officers not only of the navy but also the army...
People like that don't feel "embarrassment", because nothing is ever their own fault. I'm sure the captain was absolutely fuming mad and desperate to lay the blame on anybody except himself.
Your superb narrative has a blunder: pontoons do not increase displacement rather the opposite, lifting the hull upwards. To increase displacement means increasing her draft. 😮
you mean adding cosmetic changes that stop it from being playable complaints were why weegee removed the forums? we all know they ignored the physics breaking supersonic torpedoes + submarines breaking the game complaints. or the complaints about aircraft being invulnerable so aa is completely useless. warships is going downhill fast.
@@jaquigreenlees They probably rememberd the time when one of their proposed changes (being able to reset already researched lines for improved stats) lead to such an uproar in the forum that they had to backpedal and can the whole idea within 24 hours. Like all shady companies, they learned exactly the "right" lesson from it...
Oh, a battleship video, awesome! Your next one should be on that one time in 1992 when the Missouri was commandeered by some mercenaries. Contrary to public opinion, I think much of the blame lies with the XO, rather than the late Captain Adams.
@@JohnyG29 A Navy buddy of mine said the stripper did most of the work, while the cook hid in the walk-in cooler. "Prepping for breakfast tomorrow," I think that's what it said in the after action report.
I know this is nit picking, but why at 2:27 does the Missouri have 4 guns per turret not 3? It is just a bit odd to me, given how distinctive the 3 gun turrets were on the Iowas.
@@beeble2003 The animator looked at it long enough to make it look a lot like an Iowa and even got the secondary batteries looking pretty good. Not to mention four gun turrets are exceptionally rare because they're massive pains in the ass. I don't know anybody who tried it other than the Dunkerque and the KGV classes.
@@merafirewing6591 At least its sails would not get clogged by sand, but that'd be an interesting conundrum. Beaching one of those at high tide when the wind is strong is probably even worse, there's no way to guarantee a suitable wind when the tide is right to try to drag it free. Honestly got no idea how much getting rid of stuff inside would reduce its weight, there's no fuel to pump out. One thing about ships of that era is that I do expect them to be able to remove all guns with relatively more ease than removing a big turret from a back then modern battleship at sea.
Kudos to those tugs’ crew, they are truly an unsung heroes not only for this case but entire maritime industry. The maritime world cannot operate without them (or it can but much much harder).
(wikipedia) Captain William D. Brown assumed command of the battleship on 10 December 1950 while she was being overhauled Then the only US battleship in commission, Missouri was proceeding from Hampton Roads on her first training exercise at sea since the overhaul, early on 17 January 1950 when she ran aground 1.6 mi (2.6 km) from Thimble Shoal Light, near Old Point Comfort. She hit shoal water a distance of three ship-lengths from the main channel.[16] The error resulted from a combination of many factors, including Brown's inexperience maneuvering such a large ship. The grounding occurred during a particularly high tide making the effort to free her even more difficult as did having an abandoned anchor becoming embedded in her hull. After off-loading ammunition, fuel and food to lighten the battleship,she was refloated on 1 February with the aid of tugboats, pontoons, beach gear and a rising tide
Because it doesn't matter to the point being made. The graphics are just representational, as you can also tell from the fact that the tugs and dredger shown are all modern, and Brown is shown with a beard.
@@beeble2003 I'm not saying they needed to model every 40mm AA gun period accurate, just weird to see the main guns that way. Still good content though.
In peacetime grounding or colliding with another vessel with a Navy ship almost always ends the CO’s career. If it happens to multiple ships in a squadron the squadron CO loses their career as well. The Navy does not like having it’s expensive ships torn up by incompetence.
This problem of people of lower ranks not speaking up because of fears of being ignored, humiliated or even reprimanded is a serious problem and still plagues all sorts of trades around the world. People should be allowed to speak up without fear of negative repercussions no matter what job they do. Its in everyone's best interests and management seriously needs to change their ways. On a bad day, this kind of working environment gets people killed.
Ive driven through the channel they picked up before many times on my way from Baltimore to Florida in my boat and i can't even imagine there being a battleship hard aground there 😂
At the same time if the master 'command' hoping that everyone is able to express their vision and waiting for the dust to settle or the loudest voice to shut the rest out....
If this channel doesn't pick it up, you may try asking the same of Battleship New Jersey. Their museum's channel is excellent for the small detail kinds of things and comment questions for video sources is quite common over there.
Is there much to say about it? People naturally assume that looking over the point of the bow means you're looking in the direction you're heading, but that doesn't work on the offset bridge of a carrier, so they put a big stick on the ship so you could look at that and know which direction you were heading.
Slight mistake in graphics. The Iowa's and most American battleships had triple gunned turrets not quads. Think the British had a few quad turrets. Edit → king George class 4-2 4 config. IE a quad fore, and twin superfiring and quad aft. Richelieu and Dunkirk 4-4 0 IE 2 quads fore, one superfiring over other. No primary guns aft.
And the tugs and dredger are modern. And Brown didn't wear a beard. But the graphics are just a representation, and none of this affects the points that are being made.
"battleships are by no means obsolete when it comes to this video's sponsor, world of warships" oh you sweet summer child, be thankful you don't actually play WOWs to experience carrier torture and subs spanking you till you alt+f4 those who know, know
0:07 Insert Drachinifel's comment about USN (typically) capitol ships running aground in their own waters club 0:23 Mean while on the Richelieu or Jean Bart
A Captains worst mistake is to think that he knows everything, and all his subordinates can't possibly know more knowledge than he does .. when Captaining a ship, you need all the information you can get from your various sources on the bridge .. it's up to the Capitan to take all that information given to him, and make informed decisions
While it's a little different to your usual content, I'd love to hear your explanation of the switch from battleship to carrier naval doctrine It would certainly theme well with your current sponsor
Carriers were originally primairly used for scouting, as their aircraft simply didn't have the performance to carry much in the way of ordinance. However, the performance of carrier capable aircraft continued to improve. By the 20s and 30s carriers were also expected to harass oposing capital ship formations before the main engagement in the same way cruiser and destoryer squadrons would. Ans as the performance of carrier capable aircraft continued to increase, so to did the ability of carriers to significantly endanger capital ships rather than simply harass and slow them before the battleships finished them. When this is combined with the greater striking range and greater versatility of aircraft, the battleship simply became a less optimal choice,forced. This did not immediately render them obsolete. The transition from "probably not lethal to well armored and maneuvering ships", at least without a lot of luck, to " highly dangerous to even the best armored ships" for a single carrier's aircraft compliment was a gradual process, and wasn't complete even by the end of WW2. However, a lot of that transition did happen during the War. The hunt for Bismark is a pretty good example of the plan of battle in the late 30s. Destoyers, cruisers, and aircraft from a carrier served as scouts, with carrier strikes hounding Bismark during the day and destoyers at night, while battleships came in for the final kill once it had been slowed and weakened by the harassment of the other forces.
@@spudgamer6049 I think the AI that wrote that one forgot that carriers are _never_ "well armoured" in practical terms; any damage whatsoever to the flight deck renders them no longer able to launch or land aircraft.
I don't play it anymore, but WoWs is still a pretty cool game and graphically it is stunning. Strange though, why they still position themselves as historically-accurate, while they are more of "history" Nat-Geo channel / von Dänniken type. There are 1/4 of the ships of "if-Argentina-wanted-to-build-cruisers-and-have-seen-this-French-project-..." type. Also kriegsmarine aircraft-carriers, and soviet aircraft-carriers, and an "hydro-acousic search" device that... can't detect submarines O.o, but _can_ see through solid landmass. And a "radar" theat _can_ see through solid landmass. All that said, go and have a try at it, just be polite in game-chat. It is not "hackers", it is how the game is written, OK?
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miau
Iowa class battleships only have three 16" guns per turret, not four.
Plz were do u make these animations
WORLD OF WARSHIPS: LEGENDS Doesn't Have Subs 🤬. Us Veterans Players Seriously Don't Want Subs In LEGENDS 🤬
I have 30k battles in wows and my advise dont start to play game , is a shit show now , honeymoon period is over and now they cash out , so is not worth to start play game now.
As soon as she grounded, the XO had everyone involved stop immediately and write down everything that just happened. He knew having it recorded fresh and not relying on later memory would be critical for the investigation and court martial. How he handled the aftermath of the incident was instrumental in his exoneration.
Trying to screw your incompetent superior as hard as humanly possible while keeping everyone's else's hands squeaky clean. A man after my own heart.
When you can't get a bad decision in writing beforehand...get it any way you can afterwards 😂
Ahh so you’re rewarded for being a coward and slimy and throwing everyone else under the bus in the military, I guess I knew that it’s just weird you make it sound like a good thing
This is also a problem in aviation. We have seen a lot of accidents being caused because the first officers where afraid to speak to the captain.
The 2013 crash of Asiana Air Flight 214 at SFO was blamed on the FO being afraid to contradict the captain. Three people died and nearly 200 were injured.
@@JarrodFrates It seemed unfair to me to put the whole blame on the FO considering the captain made the initial mistake. At least, they should share the blame.
I decided to look it up on Wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know...I didn't want to take a lot of time), and what they described was different.
The left (Captain's) seat was occupied by a captain getting his Initial Operating Experience. The right (Flight Officer) was occupied by a captain who was the trainer/instructor/Pilot in Charge.
While there was mismanagement in the cockpit, there was also poor training of this airlines' pilots in visual landings (the airline preferred to let the computer do the work, but SFO's ILM was down, so the pilots had to land visually), and poor understanding of the various modes of automatic systems (pilots thought the autothrottle was active when it wasn't).
*cough cough* Tenerife *cough cough*
@@JarrodFratesof those three deaths at least one was killed by the fire department.
@@rilmar2137Tenerife was caused by the entire KLM crew developing a sudden case of what the industry calls “get-there-itis” (running out of time and in that case wanting to get in the air as soon as possible, in most cases of “get-there-itis” they want to get on the ground as soon as possible)
The correct way to think of command is that you take all the blame of a failure, and praise the team on success. Everyone _knows_ it takes a good leader to make a good team anyway.
But if you think of command as power instead of responsibility, you get disaster. Passing blame means no one will do anything to help you, and depending on situation, you will also get corruption.
yeah, first rule of leadership. Everything that happens under your watch is your responsibility.
So the exact opposite of what the first officer did, yet he’s supposed to be “good” in this scenario, why? Because he blamed everyone else so he wouldn’t get in trouble
Thankfully that shoal helped to keep a problematic commander from further advancing his mismanagement.
I guess you say it beached his career
Too bad it couldn’t stop half the generals and admirals in command today
The general class has always been problematic. All the good officers I met retired before going to admiral.
@@goldenhate6649 Get to a certain point, and promotions have more to do with office politics than skill. They say every man is promoted to one rank above what he is qualified for.
@@justicedunham4088 I've seen that in Navy enlisted as well. Instead of increasing a Sailor's pay based on their time in, experience, and expertise at a job, they promote Sailors up the pay grades which means progressively less doing your job and progressively more managing other people. Sounds great if you are a paper-pusher/middle-management type, sucks if you are a hands-dirty/doing-the-work type. For the hands-on sorts it sucks because they are now doing jobs they don't enjoy and are not necessarily qualified for.
There is a fantastic interview with the Missouri crew, which was on the bridge that day.
The helmsmen and navigator had been in and out of there several times. BOTH tried warning this "new" Captain. Nut this Captain wasn't having any lower enlisted second guess his orders. So... on to ground she went.
Yeah no shit they said that after they would’ve been court martialed if they told the truth aka THEY DIDNT SAY SHIT
@@david-468
They didn't want their ship to run-aground.
It was their job to speak up when necessary.
They weren't afraid to tell the truth, even if the one it was directed to didn't want to hear it.
I am so glad crew resource management exists in aviation today. I hope we can all bring that mentality to every industry.
I imagine the XO seeing the sandbank.. and looking the other way. "Full ahead guys, Captain's orders are followed without delay and without questions".
thats what military members mean when they say pulling rank, its that your relying on rank to order troops instead of leadership, instead of allowing said crew to report that it might be a bad idea or how to do better...
This reminds me of the "Cain Mutiny", the only mutiny in American naval history against an incompetent arrogant captain.
The XO, Commander George Peckham, ended up getting court martialed along with the captain and a few others. Peckham was exonerated, stayed at sea, and eventually made a rear admiral. Captain William Browne took a plea deal (after spending most of his court martial testimony trying to blame his crew) that pushed him 250 slots down the promotion list, ensuring that he would never make admiral. He was transferred to shore duty until he left the Navy four years later.
Edit: I confused Peckham with another officer that was reduced in numbers (pushed down the promotion list).
Look up HMS Victoria and Admirals George Tryon and Albert Markham.
@twerkingbollocks6661 Damn! I usually don't make those kind of stupid mistakes. Thanks for letting me know so I don't make the same mistake in front of people I really know.
Minor thing but the scene looking out of the bridge at 4 barrel turrets hurts. Missouri is an Iowa class armed with triples, at least for battleships the US never used quads. From memory only a few French battleships did though i may have forgotten others.
French battleships had Two Quadruple turrets forward. The British King George the V classes had Two Quad fours (In A,X) and a Twin with the twin super firing (B) over the bow Quadruple turret
@@Pointclearius Your labeling is slightly off. The King George V-class had turrets A and Y as quads. X is the first main turret aft of the superstructure, which on those was a twin-gun turret superfiring over the quad Y, just as the forward twin-gun B turret superfired over the quad A. (Wing turrets were usually labeled P and Q in the Royal Navy, though KGVs didn't have them.)
The US numbered theirs (but never used wing turrets), and the Germans had an alphabetic system that seems to go clockwise: the Kaiser-class had A forward, B for the starboard wing, C and D for the aft turrets, then E for the port wing. France numbered theirs, even when they did have wing turrets, counting front to back, port to starboard.
@@JarrodFrates You're correct that the aft turret on the King George V-class (1939) was 'Y' turret, however there was no superfiring twin turret aft.
From the bow, there were 'A' turret (quad), 'B' turret (twin, superfiring over 'A'), the superstructure, and 'Y' turret (quad).
The guns are spaced evenly so they don't look like the French turrets though. French BB turrets had a large armor plate between the 2nd and 3rd gun, intended to prevent the whole turret to be taken out by a single hit or misfire.
I think they just pushed the "casual" a bit too hard. It was a nice story, easy to retell without too much effort. Much like this videos sponsor, that also is not that much into getting the details correct.
And you can still visit USS Missouri, she's now a museum ship in Pearl Harbor. In fact all of the Iowa-Class were preserved. USS Iowa is in the Port of Los Angeles, USS New Jersey is in Camden, New Jersey right across the river from Philadelphia, and USS Wisconsin is in Norfolk, Virginia.
They should have sent the Missouri and Wisconsin to the states they were named after just for the practice with a big logistical challenge.
@@alexanderf8451Pretty sure the ships sit lower than the depths of the Mississippi, and they're too long to fit in the locks connecting the Great Lakes to the Atlantic.
@@bluesbest1Welp, time to upgrade the railroad again!
Good luck getting a BB to a land locked state. What are you an idiot?@@alexanderf8451
I visited the Missouri when she was moored at Bremerton. That's what I'm told anyway. I was maybe 2yo. I had a T-shirt that I lost somewhere along the way.
Fun fact: USS Missouri was active in the U.S Navy off and on until the 1990s, being used in the Korean War and Operation Desert Storm.
Coolest class the USN ever built, if you ask me. Yeah, yeah, we can get the job done (and then some) with cruisers, destroyers and subs... but you can't beat a full broadside with 16-inch cannons for coolness.
@@atelerix969absolutely. And a great intimidation factor
Thats just a regular fact
Fun fact: all Iowa-class battleships were active in the U.S Navy off and on until the 1990s!
The world bully can be proud on it's human murder machines...
"within sight of the officer accommodations" OOOOOF
Aviation has/had the same exact problem - the captain of the plane often was in total command, and many accidents happened because the crewmembers, often too afraid to speak up, simply flew the plane into their demise. In the late 80s and 90s, the FAA and others realized this and instituted Crew Resource Management (CRM) in which rank is more of a formality but everyone had a voice - if anyone saw anything, they should speak up and be heard if it impacted the safety of the flight. It had an effect but unfortunately CRM is not the standard everywhere - many other places outside the Americas and Europe were much slower to adopt CRM - either by cultural norms (you defer to your senior) or it wasn't a thing. These days, it's mandatory but CRM failures still happen because the captain (coming usually from military or otherwise) still believes in their absolute control, but attitudes are slowly changing.
I think to an extent it was adopted already in late 70s, as a fallout from the Tenerife disaster
I wonder if naval have similar program as CRM, actually Aviation is the best industry in case of CRM even at "many other places" , I have learned some manufacture, hospital especially surgery room have adopted some form of CRM. but I didn't know much about naval. giving the similarity between sea and air, it should be easy to adopt to?
I've been flying in Japan for 10 years. CRM is standard now but they were probably 20 years behind the US in adopting it.
Q: How Many Tugs Does It Take To Move A Battleship?
A: It depends on how strong the tug is. If it’s a tug of war, then it might take a lot of people to pull the battleship. If it’s a tug boat, then it might take only one or two to push the battleship. And if it’s a tug of love, then it might take just one kiss to move the battleship.
love the bit that says Missouri went beached in front of the top brass😂
I can only imagine the :I faces they all made every day for two weeks lol
@@jeremiec8014When a senior naval officer can look out the window and see a subordinate's glaring mistake before even going to the head in the morning, and then read the "No progress on moving Missouri yet" headline in the civilian newspaper over breakfast... That can't make for a happy naval leader.
Classic case of crew resource [mis]management. Luckily the captain only embarrasses himself in full view of the retired senior officers of the armed forces in their retirement homes. In commercial airplanes it usually results in a crash.
I didnt know state managed to beach herself for 2 weeks. I guess she doesnt want any of her statesmen to know some of her more embarrassing moments
Random fun fact:the fact that MO's currently residing in Pearl Harbor(500 feet away from the Arizona) is meant to symbolize the beginning and end of the war. On top of that her forward main gun is always point towards Arizona's monument and wreakage to symbolize shes watching over her and her crew
LOL, I imagine the captain wasn't liked much among his peers so I wouldn't be surprised if the event was an opportunity to mock him. To fumble so much and run aground mostly because he was dismissive of his sailors is such an embarrassment to the captain.
All in all it turned out a good training exercise in loading/unloading, hauling etc. but the most valuable lesson is to listen to the people under one's command as they often know more than one does and are more than capable to make decisions on their own.
Another comment by ecstasyofgold888 mentioned the guy was court martialed and no longer up for promotion (moved down 250 spots or so, at that rank I guess end of next rank in his career or worse). The second in command of the ship was claimed to be exonerated due to having warned the captain and retired as a rear admiral.
Mildly surprised about actual consequences and not some random person being blamed for it, I suppose it being so nicely in view from land by senior leadership to make it even more obvious made it hard to bury? Or maybe the US navy kinda works well and doesn't just let people fail yet still get promoted/stay in their job.
@@extrastuff9463 It's pretty consistent in the USN that if your ship/boat hits something it's not supposed to hit, you're done. See the results of destroyer collisions in the last couple years, subs hitting seamounts, subs landing on japanese fishing vessels, and so on.
The sinking of the El Faro had a similar cause. The master basically ignoring advice from multiple people and sailing straight into a hurricane. RIP
I like how you've got the Mighty Mo sailing next to an Aircraft Carrier that is rocking F35s.
We can dream...
answering the questions we never thought of but desperately needed the answer to
Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
@@owenowen212what
Well, we’re gonna find out all about this when USS New Jersey goes to dry dock at some point next year!
New Jersey is an Iowa class battleship, as is Missouri, for those who may not know.
I do wonder what its like under the NJ atm, When they drydocked the USS Intrepid up in New York they found the ship was sitting on a lot of silt and debris. And the Delaware River just like the Hudson has a good stiff current to push stuff under the ship which is what happened to Intrepid. Years and years of just sitting there things built up from the current.
New Jersey did have divers go under the ship earlier this year - they said that the bottom is well clear of the hull, and that the hull itself still looks good. They shouldn’t really have any issues with getting her out into the channel. The Intrepid situation was definitely far more challenging - as I understand it, she was packed up to well past her screws in the mud.
I only work on ferries right now but it's absolutely true the the master of the vessel and the chief mate, make the environment. If we don't feel like we can talk to them, things can fester and become huge problems when they never should be. It's wild what the human ego does.
7:34 - This is the biggest problem with leadership in basically ALL corporations and crafts. Managers, supervisors, captains, commanders, etc., Think that they know everything and have to make ALL the decisions. Not realizing that they are just one part of the TEAM, and all together, with expertise and experience from ALL employment levels, is how work is done the absolute best.
It always terrifies me that antileaders like that get promoted to places where no one can override them. There is so much wrong with how he captained I can't comprehend how he functioned under someone else's command.
He most likely did exactly what he was told and showed those orders down the line like they were gods commandments.
Adding in an unhealthy amount of ass licking and socializing in the right circles.
If something went wrong, it was the commanders fault. Unfortunately a lesson he never learned from because it is entirely possible for someone else than the commander to be at fault by simply expecting everything everyone does or doesn't do makes them liable. And thusly listening to your subordinates every report and every concern.
Unfortunately, this commanders example is replicated all over the world because when most people are put in a position of leadership they turn into the worst people imaginable.
@@RealCaddeI've yet to see any case where someone changed because they got into a position of leadership. In fact, most people fail in positions of leadership because they can't make the hard decisions that will upset a few people while protecting the group as a whole.
When I do see someone claiming an individual "changed" when going into leadership, it's because the person making that claim didn't get something they wanted. Either special favoritism as a "friend" of the newly minted leader, or to not have important rules enforced. The few times I do see someone "become" a worse person when in leadership positions, they were already that way, and it was obvious to all who knew them.
In the non-military side of government, they get there because a lot of people who didn't really know some jerk elected that jerk and that jerk in turn put other jerks in appointed positions and so on down the chain. In business it more often emerges because the person at the top brought (or was perceived to bring) financial success elsewhere and was brought in. Such people sometimes don't bother to get to know people and just paint-by-numbers the promotions and hiring without getting to know the new managers they are creating. And in some cases the jerk just outright buys the top job by stock investment.
Military doesn't really work that way. There is officer training where you have to pass through tests. There are lower leadership ranks where you have to demonstrate your capabilities. And they put a stop to buying command too long before this happened for it to reasonably have been a factor. The success rate of military in building good leadership is a well known and understood quantity for those of us outside the military who hire from those who honorably discharge. There is some authoritarianism that causes chafing with civilian employees so you have to put them in mid level management first, but not to the extreme of punishing people for giving information. There are always exceptions, but they stand out because of how much their former commanders had to have screwed up to let them get that high up.
I do realize those make it into stories and movies a lot, but that's a result of the "man bites dog" effect. Barely anybody makes movies about a normal day where nothing out of the ordinary happens, so incompetent commanders who don't listen to anyone like those in the Crimean War became a trope. Drawn into focus because it was noteworthy rather than because it was the rule, but then morphed into an easy tool to create conflict in a story and overused to the point where it seems common.
If it really were the norm in the military, he wouldn't have been court martialed while his XO was exonerated.
I am kind of glad these mistakes exist. Without them, America would have been no different than the naval powers that came before them.
@@triadwarfare Have you read about the British at Scilly in 1707? Ours wasn't that bad, but we do seem to be in the same club.
From the title I thought this was a video from the battleship New Jersey's channel. This is exactly the title they'd use.
I wonder how many tugs will her trip to the dry dock require. So far the plan is 3 but who knows how it will go
I can just imagine the reactions of the people watching this occur at the nearby base...
"Nothing to see here, just standard American maneuvers..."
"*These* are the people who helped us win the war??"
"Well, Missouri *is* a landlocked state, after all..."
Great video! Just a slight critic, the Missouri has her guns in triple mounts... not quad. But other than that, great job! Never heard of this story before.
It does make one often wonder: How many ships went down over the centuries because the captain/master of the ship ignored their crew? If the commander of the Mighty MO had not been an a-hole, the ship would likely have never run aground.
We can put 7 U.S destroyers (Hondas Point) on the list.
The Germans lost at least one u-boat to an embarrassed captain who tried to flush the toilet by himself and sank the boat. Command mismanagement has cost the world more than a few warships.
Halsey and typhoon cobra
Can you do a series on how different bridge equipment works!! I'd love to learn about alidades!
or maybe just an episode on a few different items.
Finally, a informative and good video to watch on a Friday!
The best kind of videos
When I was a college student over forty years ago one of my professors had been a lieutenant on the Missouri when this happened. We could sometimes get him talking about this instead of the days lesson in kinematics.
2:41 The Iowa class battleships never had quad barrel turrets
One thing that I would like to point out: Since Missouri was an Iowa class it had only 3 guns per battery not 4.
But good video aside from that.
Great video. Another good resource for topics like this is Shipboard Bridge Resource Management by Michael R. Adams. It delves into many of the aspects of command climate with a bunch of case studies like the Exon Valdez and USS Dwight D. Eisenhower. Can't wait to see what your next video is.
00:54 It is unfortunate to report that the USS Missouri is, infact, Obsolete in World of Warships. She has been Powercrept by other Nations' ships (which get stronger and stronger the later theyre added to the game, because you can only balance this game so much before ships become copies of eachother) as well as not recieving reworks that were done to the Mainline US Battleship Branch (Which cointains the Iowa)
This reminds me of something that always stuck with me. Years ago I was reading an article that made mentioned that in the US Navy, if you run aground for any reason, your career is basicly over. Nobody will want to give a ship to someone who did, even if it was unforeseen and they were in the clear. Apparently, the US Navy still believes in luck (see submariners). I do not know if this is, or ever was, actually true. But I always felt that it seemed a little unfair and would certainly make me a little paranoid if I was captaining a ship for 'em. But I can't help but think this incident led to the creation of that rumor and/or fact.
Running aground should never be unforseen though. It's the equivalent of driving off a cliff in a car.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Honda Point Disaster led to that rule, idk for sure tho. *Seven* US Navy destroyers in a convoy ran aground at 20 knots
99% of the time, running aground is a crew error and ultimately, captain error. Our warships have sonar, they can map the depths in front of them and plan accordingly.
Competent people often have "good luck" and incompetent people very often have "bad luck". Funny how that works?
"Missourah!"
the little battleship curator in my head
“Battleship New Jersey formerly received operating support from the New Jersey Department of State, as well as a number of private individuals, like yourselves."
Huh, an Iowa class with quad barrel gun turrets. That looks EXTRA powerful.
CRM, crew resource management, is a great thing. Big changes from when I began flying 40 years ago.
0:20 bro drew french battleship for a american battleship video
I can’t help but notice that there are 4 guns in each turret in the video,where in reality she has a 3*3 lay out😮
And the tugs and dredger are modern, and Brown didn't have a beard. But it's not a big deal, as none of that affects the point.
@@beeble2003 true
This was a great video very informative, intresting and amusing. I would love to see more content on how a poor atmosphere can cause mistakes regardless of the safety measures we put in place to avoid mistakes like this
Read about crew resource management in aircraft -- essentially the same thing.
@@beeble2003 but reading that is not as good as a casual navigation vid, aircraft often tend to crash without the possibility of evacuation or repair many ships get in the same situation so things like first hand acounts become limited
@@jordansimms6213 Agreed. Sorry that my reply was rather curt. I meant that CRM in aviation is essentially the same as whatever they call it in shipping, not that reading a bunch of stuff is essentially the same as watching a well-written, well-presented video like these.
A leader has to lead, but to do that well, first he has to listen.
I don't even want to imagine the embarrassment of running a battleship into a sandbank in front of senior officers not only of the navy but also the army...
People like that don't feel "embarrassment", because nothing is ever their own fault. I'm sure the captain was absolutely fuming mad and desperate to lay the blame on anybody except himself.
Your superb narrative has a blunder: pontoons do not increase displacement rather the opposite, lifting the hull upwards. To increase displacement means increasing her draft. 😮
World of Warships - so bad they closed down their own forums to avoid justified criticisim.
you mean adding cosmetic changes that stop it from being playable complaints were why weegee removed the forums?
we all know they ignored the physics breaking supersonic torpedoes + submarines breaking the game complaints.
or the complaints about aircraft being invulnerable so aa is completely useless.
warships is going downhill fast.
@@jaquigreenlees They probably rememberd the time when one of their proposed changes (being able to reset already researched lines for improved stats) lead to such an uproar in the forum that they had to backpedal and can the whole idea within 24 hours.
Like all shady companies, they learned exactly the "right" lesson from it...
Arrogance is never a wise tactic.
"how much water under the keel?"
"3.6 but --"
"3.6, not good, not terrible..."
Oh, a battleship video, awesome! Your next one should be on that one time in 1992 when the Missouri was commandeered by some mercenaries. Contrary to public opinion, I think much of the blame lies with the XO, rather than the late Captain Adams.
I think it was saved by a cook iirc.
@@JohnyG29 A Navy buddy of mine said the stripper did most of the work, while the cook hid in the walk-in cooler. "Prepping for breakfast tomorrow," I think that's what it said in the after action report.
I know this is nit picking, but why at 2:27 does the Missouri have 4 guns per turret not 3? It is just a bit odd to me, given how distinctive the 3 gun turrets were on the Iowas.
Because the video is made by a professional mariner, not a warship enthusiast.
@@beeble2003 The animator looked at it long enough to make it look a lot like an Iowa and even got the secondary batteries looking pretty good. Not to mention four gun turrets are exceptionally rare because they're massive pains in the ass. I don't know anybody who tried it other than the Dunkerque and the KGV classes.
When tyranny reigns... harm and disaster follow.
When freedom reigns... prosperity and happiness are the norm.
no way a toxic leader in the military
Very interesting topic- thanks for making the video! I never would have thought it was all so complicated.
I wonder how many boats would it take to tow a 1st Rate Ship-of-the-line?
@@merafirewing6591 At least its sails would not get clogged by sand, but that'd be an interesting conundrum. Beaching one of those at high tide when the wind is strong is probably even worse, there's no way to guarantee a suitable wind when the tide is right to try to drag it free.
Honestly got no idea how much getting rid of stuff inside would reduce its weight, there's no fuel to pump out. One thing about ships of that era is that I do expect them to be able to remove all guns with relatively more ease than removing a big turret from a back then modern battleship at sea.
Ive never heard of this blunder only glorious stories from the USS MISSOURI thank you
This was a great video! I've never heard of this incident before, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.
We need this essential video in every maritime course. Please, thanks.
Now Will you do a video on why some ships like RMS Queen Mary have a longitudal Bend.
Kudos to those tugs’ crew, they are truly an unsung heroes not only for this case but entire maritime industry. The maritime world cannot operate without them (or it can but much much harder).
Such a great management/leadership lesson here.
Nice, this time the ad timer bar isn't deceptive. Good on you.
(wikipedia) Captain William D. Brown assumed command of the battleship on 10 December 1950 while she was being overhauled Then the only US battleship in commission, Missouri was proceeding from Hampton Roads on her first training exercise at sea since the overhaul, early on 17 January 1950 when she ran aground 1.6 mi (2.6 km) from Thimble Shoal Light, near Old Point Comfort. She hit shoal water a distance of three ship-lengths from the main channel.[16] The error resulted from a combination of many factors, including Brown's inexperience maneuvering such a large ship. The grounding occurred during a particularly high tide making the effort to free her even more difficult as did having an abandoned anchor becoming embedded in her hull. After off-loading ammunition, fuel and food to lighten the battleship,she was refloated on 1 February with the aid of tugboats, pontoons, beach gear and a rising tide
2:29 How many main guns does Missouri have on each turret? The animated couldn't be bothered to check.
Because it doesn't matter to the point being made. The graphics are just representational, as you can also tell from the fact that the tugs and dredger shown are all modern, and Brown is shown with a beard.
@@beeble2003 I'm not saying they needed to model every 40mm AA gun period accurate, just weird to see the main guns that way. Still good content though.
Crew resource management. A hard-won lesson from aviation that hasn't spread as far as it ought even now.
I’d love to hear more stories or simply learn more about tugboats and how they operate. Military or not.
In peacetime grounding or colliding with another vessel with a Navy ship almost always ends the CO’s career. If it happens to multiple ships in a squadron the squadron CO loses their career as well. The Navy does not like having it’s expensive ships torn up by incompetence.
I love the battleships. They're wild...
Me thinking; 'That's odd, CN doesn't usually talk about warships'
*Goes to click link; preview starts with an ad. for WoW.
'Ah, that explains that.'
This problem of people of lower ranks not speaking up because of fears of being ignored, humiliated or even reprimanded is a serious problem and still plagues all sorts of trades around the world. People should be allowed to speak up without fear of negative repercussions no matter what job they do. Its in everyone's best interests and management seriously needs to change their ways. On a bad day, this kind of working environment gets people killed.
Ive driven through the channel they picked up before many times on my way from Baltimore to Florida in my boat and i can't even imagine there being a battleship hard aground there 😂
why do the turrets have 4 gun barrels?
yikes Iowas have 3 not4
I imagine the report
"Admiral,
I am Honoured and used to report you that I ran my command onto a shoal
Respectfully
Captain Badadvice"
I have this problem in my office, captain ALWAYS knows best and rest of us can walk the plank
"Ah, but the strawberries!". That's how the Captain caught them.
The US Navy has a wonderful tradition of Captains and Admirals hating the sailors that they're in charge of and trying to use them as scapegoats.
At the same time if the master 'command' hoping that everyone is able to express their vision and waiting for the dust to settle or the loudest voice to shut the rest out....
Hi CasNav!
Boats are cool.
Imagine doing office work and seeing the USS Missouri beach right in front of your window
Some of the engineers at my company need to watch this
couldn't have happened to a better Capt !
Welcome to NSN! Where if you fail to turn in the 3 seconds allotted to you, you will end up on a sandbar!
It might be too specific for your channel, but would you do a video on why American carriers have a Belknap pole?
If this channel doesn't pick it up, you may try asking the same of Battleship New Jersey. Their museum's channel is excellent for the small detail kinds of things and comment questions for video sources is quite common over there.
Is there much to say about it? People naturally assume that looking over the point of the bow means you're looking in the direction you're heading, but that doesn't work on the offset bridge of a carrier, so they put a big stick on the ship so you could look at that and know which direction you were heading.
Slight mistake in graphics. The Iowa's and most American battleships had triple gunned turrets not quads. Think the British had a few quad turrets. Edit → king George class 4-2 4 config. IE a quad fore, and twin superfiring and quad aft.
Richelieu and Dunkirk 4-4 0 IE 2 quads fore, one superfiring over other. No primary guns aft.
And the tugs and dredger are modern. And Brown didn't wear a beard. But the graphics are just a representation, and none of this affects the points that are being made.
Thus why ship captains should be trained, and have it drilled into them to listen to their crew. A captain’s crew is perhaps their greatest resource.
"battleships are by no means obsolete when it comes to this video's sponsor, world of warships" oh you sweet summer child, be thankful you don't actually play WOWs to experience carrier torture and subs spanking you till you alt+f4
those who know, know
Perhaps the captain might have been one of Costa Concordia's Schettino's ancestors? 🤔
Only if he took the first tender off his ship.
Sounds a lot like El Faro! History does repeat itself!
0:07 Insert Drachinifel's comment about USN (typically) capitol ships running aground in their own waters club
0:23 Mean while on the Richelieu or Jean Bart
Great training exercise to teach cadets and crews how to get a giant ass ship out of the mud. 👍
It’s never good when you fuck up but fucking up that bad in front of the bosses house must be humiliating haha.
A Captains worst mistake is to think that he knows everything, and all his subordinates can't possibly know more knowledge than he does .. when Captaining a ship, you need all the information you can get from your various sources on the bridge .. it's up to the Capitan to take all that information given to him, and make informed decisions
While it's a little different to your usual content, I'd love to hear your explanation of the switch from battleship to carrier naval doctrine
It would certainly theme well with your current sponsor
Carriers were originally primairly used for scouting, as their aircraft simply didn't have the performance to carry much in the way of ordinance. However, the performance of carrier capable aircraft continued to improve. By the 20s and 30s carriers were also expected to harass oposing capital ship formations before the main engagement in the same way cruiser and destoryer squadrons would. Ans as the performance of carrier capable aircraft continued to increase, so to did the ability of carriers to significantly endanger capital ships rather than simply harass and slow them before the battleships finished them. When this is combined with the greater striking range and greater versatility of aircraft, the battleship simply became a less optimal choice,forced. This did not immediately render them obsolete.
The transition from "probably not lethal to well armored and maneuvering ships", at least without a lot of luck, to " highly dangerous to even the best armored ships" for a single carrier's aircraft compliment was a gradual process, and wasn't complete even by the end of WW2. However, a lot of that transition did happen during the War.
The hunt for Bismark is a pretty good example of the plan of battle in the late 30s. Destoyers, cruisers, and aircraft from a carrier served as scouts, with carrier strikes hounding Bismark during the day and destoyers at night, while battleships came in for the final kill once it had been slowed and weakened by the harassment of the other forces.
@@spudgamer6049 I think the AI that wrote that one forgot that carriers are _never_ "well armoured" in practical terms; any damage whatsoever to the flight deck renders them no longer able to launch or land aircraft.
Drachinifel can do that
A famous bit of Norfolk history
7:46 yessss this is important
Moral of the story, dont be a shitty boss. That is something we still struggle with to this day in every industry. When will humans finally learn
Fire whoever the hell made the bridge drawing that made it seem it had quad guns.
Importance of being a leader and not a boss. Ain’t no place for bosses in the military
I live by USS New Jersey. You're telling me that batleship was the only one commissioned back then?
I don't play it anymore, but WoWs is still a pretty cool game and graphically it is stunning. Strange though, why they still position themselves as historically-accurate, while they are more of "history" Nat-Geo channel / von Dänniken type.
There are 1/4 of the ships of "if-Argentina-wanted-to-build-cruisers-and-have-seen-this-French-project-..." type. Also kriegsmarine aircraft-carriers, and soviet aircraft-carriers, and an "hydro-acousic search" device that... can't detect submarines O.o, but _can_ see through solid landmass. And a "radar" theat _can_ see through solid landmass.
All that said, go and have a try at it, just be polite in game-chat. It is not "hackers", it is how the game is written, OK?
I wonder how much his war experience played into his command style.