It's too bad that people are doing this. I'm steering clear of the whole thing by buying a new epiphone inspired by Gobson. I'm surprised that retailers have gotten into this rotten business, but also I guess I understand it. I don't approve of it in any way.
It's been going on for decades, it's just that the quality of the fakes (and budget brand guitars in general) has exceeded the level in some cases of the primary manufacturer themselves but without the brand tax included. The main brands have created this situation themselves in some respects by placing their own production in Asia in order to make more profit (US brand price / Asian build cost) and providing technical insight. Way back in the 80's, Fender empowered a Korean company to make their Squire range of guitars but were particularly slack in the contract. The same Korean company then took that insight and created the Young Chang line of guitars alongside the Squires they were producing for Fender except (and this is a critical point), they made them better than the Squire and sold them for less (initially). These were introduced to European dealers through Holland and Fender largely didn't notice or react to the introduction. In phase 2, after establishing the trade connections, Young Chang stepped up and began producing a SuperStrat (and other Fender off-shoots) which were several levels above the Squire - in fact they challenged the US main lines. The SuperStrat had an Alder body, maple neck with binding, rosewood fingerboard and a genuine Floyd Rose. The controls (apart from the switches) were pretty chunky and the pickups half decent in a HSS set up that gave a much stronger overdrive option than a standard Stratocaster - no boost pedals were required, just a half decent valve amp (and maybe a wah pedal). They sold like hot cakes to musicians working gigs. Fender finally woke up after 3 years and shut the company down (or bought them off - it's murky). The point here is that the Korean guitar in the late 80's was better equipped than the American Fender.... well built and and cheaper. And quality? Well mine is still playing today over 30 years later, so you be the judge. I have a near identical HSS Fender Stratocaster as well which is more practical for live work sans Floyd Rose (string changes) but there isn't much between them for tone and playability. PIC: bit.ly/3efEzFQ I am not condoning fakes at all or suggesting that they are all high quality - you will always get dodgy entrepreneurs taking advantage shipping rubbish under someone else's brand label - go to an island like Tenerife - it's selling of fake everything, but Young Chang were a legitimate Korean manufacturer and were able to do what they did because Fender gave them the intel and didn't contractually prevent them. I have no issue with owning the YC.
Yea,I saw that episode where the guy came in to Phil for a clean up over haul for the guitar he just bought. And ends up being a dud. I forget,was it a schecter knock off or...?Something like that maybe P.R.S?
Dennis Applegate They can do whatever they wanna do the only thing in this world 🌎 that give orders is BALLZ. And China has em bcs we gave outs to them
@@dennisapplegate7553 hell yeah! They should brand them " covid , corona series Whuan" And if a company try to sue them the just go and buy the company with the profit that they had stealing the brand. The free world should just boycot their ass.
Somebody didn’t “put a Gibson logo on there” this guitar was made in China as a counterfeit Gibson. His “assumption” is a lie. So is the statement that it was only 5 guitars in question, more like 500.
To say these guitars are "unbranded" is surely a crime in itself, as they clearly show brand names - albeit counterfeit ones! WHat were they thinking?! Richtone seem to have a very strange business policy anyway, as most web links I follow of theirs end up showing items that are out of stock.
This is absolutely shocking, it’s amazing the way the owner passes the buck. This is how innocent people get ripped off, it’s terrible. Gibson and Fender need to take legal action on these type of people.
I would not like to have been put on the spot like that and feel he was very direct while diplomatic in distancing himself from knowledge. He certainly knew it was wrong!
not necessarily, but it would be very good to stop charging way way too much for an item that can be easily copied and reproduced to the point MOST people in the world would never know the difference... yes?
I think what it comes down to as a business that sells products if you can't stand behind what you're selling it says a lot about your business and the fact that he refused to stand behind both the products listed by his business and the people who work for him who buy and sell the guitars says a lot about how confident he is in the legality and honesty of his business it shouldn't matter if he's been put on the spot he should be able to confidently say without a doubt what's going on in his business why it's going on and stand behind it people only distance themselves when you put them on the spot if they know they have something to hide
It's going to come to a point where if you are buying a high end guitar (as a deal sealer) you don't hand over any money until you've got a screw driver out and checked all the electrics. If the store won't allow you to, go elsewhere. Difficult with online purchases I know, but only buy from reputable dealers with full money back guarantees, if the product turns out to be spurious. Far more likely that you are going to get stung with replaced 'pots' and 'pups.' It's a minefield out there.
They may be listing these guitars as 'unbranded', but in effect they are deliberately putting fakes into circulation. They were traded in by customers no doubt looking to upgrade to a 'genuine' guitar, and the shop had a chance to take a fake out of circulation. If they are an official Gibson dealer, then why on earth would they be promoting and selling fakes? I wonder what Gibson would think if they knew what this shop had done? Their attitude to this sort of thing is very well known. Good work CGS.
Thanks for giving them the opportunity to respond. One workers decision could have very serious effect on an entire brand. Owners may not have known of these business practice and,hopefully,very grateful for having this brought to his attention in this manner.
Common issue all over the world. I got burnt by a certain large European guitar store back in 2008 when they sold me a "Gibson 1982 Moderne" for 3000.00 Euro Dollars, it arrived in Australia several months later and was a refinished Epiphone version with later model Gibson pickups installed. Luckily , Visa credit cards took over and the store refunded me in full without asking for the guitar in question to be returned. Only that they hoped that I wouldn't talk about it but why shouldn't I when tell people to the Max.
Ah buddy that sucks but I'm really pleased you got your money back. Nice bonus you got to keep the guitar too, hopefully it's a player? Cheers mate 🎸😊👍
Being a lefty who has tried to get many made and turned down, even interrogated once by Peavey on the phone, "Where did you hear that" as he pursued the pt angrily really, when saying I heard they were going to make HPCT's in lefty - so there are two ways of looking at it and frankly this is rock and roll and one of my fav songs is Breaking th eLaw and I dont give hoot - in fact Im very grateful for it, at least China will make em! AT least now finally since Im over 50 and been wanting for 40 yrs! Now lefties can have an EVH guiitar too, or a Zakk rebel, or Bullseye, just like you righties. A blessing at least b4 I die of old age. #ALL4EM!
Not watched any of your videos for a LOOONG time. It's great to come back and see how much you and your channel have grown! This some top notch content mate! Keep it up!
Regardless of what happens if they are buying and selling fakes once they will do it again they may place them in a case and sprinkle them threw the inventory
If a person purchases a fake with full knowledge that it IS fake, plays it for X amount, can they in turn re-sell the guitar without divulging it is not the true brand?
Good work. Being the guy who points this stuff out isn’t an easy role. I can see multiple sides in this. Clearly, the guitars shouldn’t just be thrown in the garbage, but having them out there as they are is not good either. The stores should refuse to take them in, at the very least.
Cheers Brad sorry I missed this comment. You're totally right it's not easy being that guy. I thought of you and felt like you while I was making the call to the store - you've inspired me! Stay safe brother.
If such stores have a possibility of getting their hands on fake products related to official Brands suppliers they work with, why not just make a dedicated showroom of fake products, not for sale obviously, but rather in means of educational purpose for the customers, to spread the word on fake gear issue. That would definitely be interesting to see and would draw more potential clients to their stores.
Wow. Good on you, Mike, for calling this out. Even if they're selling them as "unbranded", selling with fake brand ID is inexcusable for a reputable dealer who wants to stay reputable. The danger of course, aside from the IP law, is that someone else will get ripped off. A good friend of mine, or his wife, depending on which version of the story you believe, paid "Gibson" prices for a completely fake Les Paul Custom recently.
So sorry to hear about your buddy and his wife, this is exactly why I follow these things up. It's all too easy for people to make a fast buck if they are dishonest.
Good video. I think you were more than fair. Personally I believe the owner was already aware that counterfeits passed through the store but probably thought that tagging them "unbranded" was sufficient to cover themselves. Personally if I were running the store, I would either refuse to accept them, or use a stamp or brand that neatly decades the branding.
Woah...tricky...and glad you made us aware of this...have always been wary of buying, especially high priced, used guitars for this very reason! Good on that company for making a statement about the fakes and a refund to customers! Great info! As always...You Rock Mike! 😎🎸🎹🤘🐦
Great video! I have a Gibson Les Paul studio, and a Fender Pro Strat. I've also got 'knock-off guitars (none with a fake logo). Nothing wrong with a copy guitar, as long as its not branded with a fake logo. I love all my guitars, even some I've bought for as little as $20. As long as you know what you're actually getting.
Thank you for letting the owner have a word in about it. It's possibly that this has actually gone under his nose from the managers operating the website and the staff selling the guitar. I wouldn't like to see the fella lose his business or personally be screwed over because member of staff has purposely took on a Chibson and tried to sell it.
Rich Tone seem to have published a blog on the 6th May denouncing fakes et cetera. All very laudable. However this is completely at odds with the practice of selling the 'Gibson' and 'Fender' fakes as unbranded...
Good work there Mike - a real public service broadcast! Fakes can be hard to spot sometimes but not in those cases. The SG was obviously an Epiphone (Epiphoney!) just from looking at the bridge p/u position compared to the Gibson version of that guitar. The shop has no excuse. If they want to buy guitars with non-original brand logos, that’s fine BUT they have to remove the ‘fake’ logos before selling/advertising the instruments.
i know of several people here in the states that have made a career out of selling chinese gibsons and rickenbackers to pawn shops. youd be surprised how many pawn shops dont know the differences between real and fake.
The owner should have said. If anybody at any time bought a fake guitar from us and have the receipt, we will give a full refund. Not just for the five guitars highlited.
Very well thought out with your bases covered. I don't know why they would sell an "unbranded" guitar that was branded in any way shape or form. So they sell the guitar and say that was legit because of sign. What does the next person do with it? Exactly..... Personally I would never buy from them again if I ever did. I feel sorry for any of the honest folks caught up in the lie. That is unfortunate!!!
Counterfeit: Made in exact imitation of something valuable with the intention to DECEIVE or DEFRAUD. However if potential bidders are made aware the item is not the real McCoy, & the seller is not a company or firm, but a private individual selling on an Auction site, which must be conversant with trading rules, thereby removing the intention to deceive the buyer.
Beyond trade mark issues the country of origin is violating import regulations. I spent a career in intl trade compliance and this is a serious offense.
Screw em. Dealers selling new fakes KNOW they're selling em. Used ones, well, they're human and anyone can get fooled, but new guitars should be coming direct from the distributer. Rose Morris got their fingers burnt in the 70s, distributing Ricenbackers AND copies of Rics. It was a long time before you could buy a brand new Ric in Britain after that.
As somebody who dose buy stuff from that store and know some of the staff they always do a good service I would suggest they remove the logos on theses guitars and in future don’t accept fake ones keep up the great content Ps sometimes you find these fakes on carboots
Those guitars are sold mate but they have offered to refund the buyers. If they take the guitars back in the best thing they can do is strip the logos, but the open book would also need altering as it's a Gibson trademark too. Going forward they need to tell customers its illegal for them to ask to trade in a fake and they must keep their fakes! 😊👍
Dispite them being listed as fake they should not have been up for sale for the very reasons you listed. Now that being said I don't feel that the store was necessarily being devious but it shows a mentality that "Hey I sold it as fake what happens after this is not my problem". I would tend to believe that if you did not call them out that they would keep on with the same practices unaddressed in store. Now let's see what happens six months from now. What needs to be done if fake one of two things:1 refuse them on trade or 2 hot brand the back of the headstock with the word counterfeit.
It's simply not legal to sell them with Gibson or Fender on the headstock. We will hopefully see an improvement in staff training and a change in policy to not take in guitars with aftermarket logos as they put it. We'll monitor and see. :-)
Wow, it sounds like the owner was a little surprised that this was happening. He could of been faking it, but, if it is a reputable dealer they would be nuts to sell fakes knowing it. I see his point that they are doing a really high volume and it would be easy for these to slip through. I think it was smart to run it by your patrons first. Very wise. As always thanks for the great content and wisdom. Have a great day.
Thanks very much my friend. Yes I give James the benefit of the doubt this time. I will check back just to be sure. I'm sure it's possibly just a slip up but not for me to judge. 😊👍
"They are doing a really high volume and it would be easy for these to slip through" is a shit response from someone selling fakes for $$$. People Will extract physical revenge for such behavior.
I know that Gibson has been trying to sue companies like Kiesel and Dean Guitars for copying the rights of their guitars. But Fender has had their share of companies copying their guitars too.You would think that Fender would take action too. But they are not.But to save me from being ripped off, I'm sticking with the 2 guitars I already have. I know they are not fakes.
@@Chinaguitarsceptic Now that you talked about Fender, have you seen the new Harley Benton strat? You can't tell me it's not another copy of Fender. I just seen it yesterday.
I've wondered this as well. I had a fake Fender Stratocaster that was a piece of junk. I sanded most of the name "Fender" off of the headstock and donated it to charity. I thought about writing (or carving) "FAKE" on the back of the headstock, but was unsure on how to properly do it, and I was concerned that someone could possibly remove (or cover up) the word "fake" at a later time.
IMO they will have taken the fakes in as part exchange, the sales staff will be under pressure to make the sale so will pretty much take anything in..... the part exchange may have even been used as a deposit for finance.
I thought about getting a Chibson about a year ago but I couldn't bring myself to look at a guitar hanging on my wall knowing it was fake no matter how good it was. It's insane how widespread this problem is!
Oh my. Perhaps you may have opened the proverbial "can of worms." None the less, a buyer needs to do due diligence in not only musical instrument purchases, but in all premier brands as well. Nice job.
The Chibsons are all over ebay, obviously. They never show the headstock or mention any branding or anything beyond something like "custom guitar" that's identical in every way from the photos. I bought an ES-345 Gibson "style" guitar direct from China to San Francisco for less than $250 including shipping. Knew what I was getting quality wise, however, I was surprised that it had the complete Gibson shaped headstock with their logo and even a fake serial number and "Made in USA" on the back of it. Ebay and importers should be the ones who are held accountable, as well. Thanks for the video!
It's scary what's out there in the wild now. I would not buy a second hand Gibson despite being confident that I know all the tells of a potential fake. The copies are getting so close to the real deal now it is only a matter of time until they get it perfect unless they are stopped!
CGS Fortunately, Gibson is the only maker in the US (that I’m aware of) that still use nitro lacquer. So you can literally smell if it’s the real deal.
People just want the style of the gibson for a cheaper price!! I would love to own a Gibson Les Paul but $3000 for one is over priced!! Ima settler with a copy of one from china for $250!!!
Humberto Gonzalez Hey, I get it. When I was a kid I wanted a Les Paul like Ace Frehley’s, so my parents got me a cheap copy for Christmas from the Sears catalog.
Fakes were likely better quality, better tone, better workmanship with stronger necks so the head stock does not snap off so easily. What they did wrong was, if true, is claiming they are Gibson when they are not, if they knew this. .
shop in ulster county ,NY selling all chibsons. My Chibson says made in china on back of head. I had a 1955 Les Paul and the chibson plays as well except intonation at 12 fret.
What shop mate. Are they branded as chibson. If so that would be hilarious! I would actually have no issue with that. I think guitar shapes should all be fair game and only brand names trademark protected. So I would have no problem seeing that chibson guy license the name for this purpose. I bet he's behind this!
My own dealings at Rich Tone have been less than positive. Can't say I'd have expected this but unhelpful, pushy seem to be their byline. Staff talking badly about customers in front of other customers also seems common there.
Hmmm. They shouldn't have taken them in. Ive seen ads that say this is not a fender even thought it has the logos on the headstock. What you were saying about somebody that buys one to con someone. I saw a red sg on Facebook for £4000. It had gibson on the headstock and was listed as so. When I checked the hwadstock I could find no record of that design anywhere. So I asked the guy if it was fake, publicly. Guess what? He bought it like that and didn't know. Yeah right. If its too good to be true its probably fake. That triology (guitarology) guy has done videos on this and points out fakes on his channel. Keep up the good work. Great stuff.
I have bought a few "tribute" import guitars.... I knew they were fakes, and I never claimed them to be anything else. I basically bought them as art. I have also sold said guitars and told the buyer straight out "these are import fakes, these are wall hangers". Intentionally selling counterfeits as genuine is just low, you can check serials easily online.
I’ve bought a couple of high end guitars from RichTone. Most recently a £5k ZW Bullseye. I’ve always found them to be very good and happy to answer any questions about the guitar. I will definitely continue to shop with them
Just ran across this video man I love your content it's not just entertaining it's very informative and educational it takes a lot to gather the information to bring this out into the open just like with the Hendrix Monterey Strat that Paul David played thank you so much for your time and the effort and attention to detail when doing these videos kudos hats off to you you are a gentleman and a scholar one hell of a guy
You'd be surprised how much brand recognition carriers a failing company, and how many new kids want one, even in the age of online luthiers everywhere.
You handled it like a true professional. Mistakes in large companies are made. The mark of a great company is to recognise mistakes and rectify the situation. This was a win win for both the store and the consumer
Those guys are thoroughly fucked... I'm sure some people are gonna be fired... But... Gibson and Fender should take legal action against them for this.
I’m a little confused why a licensed Gibson/Fender shop would be willing to participate in this. It helps bolster the market for fakes even if they list it as “unbranded” with a “fake decal” and pricing accordingly. Maybe customers are trading these in on a purchase of the real thing and the shop is trying to recoup some value. Even so, if you rationalize that, the decal should be scratched off and maybe even the FAKE burned into the back of the headstock, but personally, I would toss them in the bin or refuse them in the shop at all. Maybe a pawn broker would be a different story but for a licensed retailer it makes no sense to pass them on.
Buying for yourself = OK, Selling under the table as novelty fakes to customers aware - Against the law but not immoral, Trying to pass off real as fake guitars - immoral and against the law.
@@Chinaguitarsceptic As stated "Selling under the table as novelty fakes to customers aware - Against the law but not immoral" Yeah I understand that, my point was passing them off as real in a store at RRP is a bit 'morally' different than selling to a mate explicitly stating it is fake for a score. I think what is really scary is there may be forgers out there that do it so good the only an experienced luthier can tell the difference. Believe me, I have to played one like that. Compared to other things to fake like Swiss Watch mechanics guitars are a cakewalk. The happy medium is to get one custom made without the logo. Anyway, I bought a fake Rolex submariner to see how it feels for a year before buying a new authentic one. Some of the fakes have the 7 sweeping motion now and are hard to detect, mine was 5 and cost 80 quid and lasted a few years. Pretty sure 99% of those who buy can't afford a real Gibson, to begin with, end up buying a real one in the future, or parts and hardware anyway. in a way, copycats are compliments in disguise.
I had issues with Rich Tone Music in the past not with counterfeit items but with how they protect products and items before they come out of there store, and i did not find them that helpful and had to ring about 10 times before we came to a common ground on the issue, but it resulted in me not wanting to buy from them again. They sent an item in the case, a case that was not designed for the item and it damaged the switch (could have been protected) and 2 of the buttons. I then had to get these items fixed out of my own pocket, but they seemed very blazie about it all. Its a shame to hear they are not looking after stock or customers properly
It seems that there are a few, shall we say, less than happy customers. I will be monitoring the situation/store and happy to take up any issues reported to me. I had very high recommendations from a trusted friend and patron that lead me to contact them, but I also know that there are 3 sides to every story. Thanks for letting me know brother :-)
@@Chinaguitarsceptic Very true, im not in the market for trying to bring people down or companies down or being negative about them but to highlight issues that ive had with them, im sure they are honest mistakes and honest problems, but i feel some companies especially in the guitar sector need to get better not just how they are run but the customer experience also.
I had problems too, I saw a nice Honeyburst LP traditional standard it said in stock, I was talking to the guy and he said yes it's still here, he went and checked then, so I paid for it, and got a phone call a couple of hours later, and was told sorry someone come in the shop and bought it before I bought it, so how was it there still if he had bought and taken it, Also on a few occasions I have been told they have had gear in stock ie Roland blues cube , so have paid for it and wondered why i hadn't received tracking details then rang them and been told out of stock, so then i have to wait days to get my cash refunded, which stops me buying from someone else , i have bought used gibson from a while back, now a bit concerned for it's authenticity :-( PS I buy from Coda or Anderton's they are both really good :-)
I think the shop had to have known what they’re doing. Surely anybody that works in a guitar shop knows about counterfeit guitars and that they’re not meant to be sold.
Sounds like a bunch of retailer bs to me. They obviously knew they were fakes by the selling price and should never have sold them with the name on the headstock. Now check local listings for these guitars being sold as the real deal by those who bought them. Obviously they didn't care and also never put any thought into the fact some douchebag is going to make a load of cash by ripping off someone who thinks he or she is buying the real thing. If I were in the UK I'd never buy a guitar from this retailer.
At the price they were sold i doubt anyone would have been fooled into thinking they got a real Gibson. If this is not a recurrent offense and the owner apologized I think they should get a pass. That said, this store should face the consequences if they ever do that again.
Had dealings with rich tone, bought one amplifier was given a terrible trade in deal but was desperate. Never trusted the guitar department, there was always an air of the staff not being fully honest about stuff. Always feel they were bullshitting me. I live in Sheffield but travel to PMT Leeds or even GAK in Brighton to buy guitars.
Do Diligence and buy Reputable Honest dealers stock......no Fakes no Lowdown Dirty sneaking copies.......sell 'EM cheaper than SQUIRE.......it's illegal to buy for resale and SELL as REAL.....🇨🇱🤠🎸🎶
@@Chinaguitarsceptic It's Sad that a seemingly reputable dealer would knowingly do this. But you did the right thing, and did it in the proper way, covering all avenues.
honestly if he moves that much product and he has other people managing his store, it makes since that one of his staff would make a bad judgement call and sell them. We should cut him some slack, After all , they were not trying to pass them off as real Gibsons. What you did was great but others would've liked to have seen him get in trouble. It is ridiculous how some people would say throw them under the bus. Some losers just want to watch the world burn.
Hunt Project While I agree with that general sentiment, the responsibility still ultimately falls on the owner to ensure his employees aren't going rogue and either being totally boneheaded, at the most innocent level of offense, or being knowingly unscrupulous at the worst level of offense when selling product that is clearly not the genuine article.
Ohh C'mon @Hunt Project , if the Store Owner doesn't know what is for sale at his store, his employees could be selling drugs also! It's common sense and he deserve an effective punishment for his acts. Period.
If the owner of Richtone is willing to sell those he should have them stamped in a way they can't be mistaken or resold as legitimate..in my eyes thats his responsibility once they are in his hands to help stop this overwhelming issue of the market being flooded by these..Gibson and fender should pull their guitars from that dealer..im bitter cuz I bought a fake spending 3000.00 on it ..i am an expert on these particular guitars and the only way I caught it was measurements were off..other then that everything was copied amazingly..it was still a quality instrument and they did a fantastic job replicating it but it was sold an authentic USA custom shop..i called the custom shop and the serial # was correct but matched a guitar very well known as it matched the number on a huge players number one guitar..they contacted this very very famous player to make sure his wasn't stolen and sure enough he had it sitting at his house..ive got a big collection of these guitars and thankfully after going through and checking each one they were all legit because I bought from this seller once before..the seller gave me a full refund and let me keep the guitar..to top it all off the signatures model endorsey actually had this in his hands and signed it not realizing it was a fake of his number one..it was that good
Thank you Mike for helping all musicians in the USA 🇺🇸 and across to all Oceans of people that love their music Instruments and want to Buy ,an original one at a Fair price. "WELL DONE SIR "!!!
What do you think of handcrafted "Fenders" & "Gibsons" like those made by Max Baranet, Kris Derrig, Tom Paul & Buzzy? They're all meticulous replicas of vintage instruments right down to last detail and even bear the logo & serial number, but marketed as replicas & not originals?
CGS yes I did! Thanks for the shout out! I've had a channel for awhile but life hasn't afforded me time to dedicate to uploads. But this coronavirus may change that. I love your channel and your playing. Keep on keepin on, bruh!
Shhhhh! Here's a tip: you can usually spot a Gibson replica by the headstock. The "open book" carve of the headstock on old bursts aren't symmetrical. If you look closely, the left "page" lay more flat while the right has a more upcurl sweep. The center crease is sharper than those made by a CNC toolbit, and the left radius is smaller than the right. It's a subtle detail which everyone overlooks - even Gibson
As a frequent customer at this dealer over the years I can say that I have experienced excellent service, choice and quality over the years. This video hopefully will iron out these few cases and help Richtone to improve their service even more. Having bought Fender and Gibson products at Richtone both new and used I have been dealt genuine items at fair pricepoints. These incidents were hopefully just isolated unfortunate oversights. There is of course a responsibility as a consumer to research products and what to look out for before and during the purchasing process. Richtone is a fantastic store and I will be happy to continue to do business with them in the future. This video I hope will help Richtone improve these areas and help eradicate cointerfeit items from the open market. Rock on.
Stores licensed to sell legitimate brands know when they have a fake. They should be held responsible. Contacting them and giving them an opportunity to make it right was a blessing for the store. Good job Mike!
I'm thinking he knew, he just got caught and by his own admission they handle a massive number of used instruments. I will be searching for the followup video.
This is a buyer beware world in spite of all the consumer protection laws. I put the onus on buyers to ensure their purchases are legit. Cheats and law breakers simply want your money for the least effort. Be sure to protect yourself by buying from trusted dealers. If this isn't possible, the buyer must know enough not to be ripped off.
so your ratting out on this guy. you should have just kept it quiet and told gibson and fender. my friend at gibson said he will be permanently cuttoff.
I wonder how the law looks at replicas as in for lack of a better example say a Chris Derrig Les Paul like Slash has that's branded Gibson but obviously wasnt built at Gibson. Not sure if the wood and all the parts are genuine Gibson but still the fact is that it was not made at the factory. I'm sure there are thousands of replicas like that out there made by reputable luthiers but not at Gibson, Fender or elsewhere. I guess technically it still counts as counterfeit and replica is just a nicer way of describing it. Idk, the thought just crossed my mind and I was curious about that. Because imagine if that guitar of Slash's hits the market one day with the history it has behind it. Would it be technically illegal to sell since its branded as a Gibson Les Paul? 🤔
I think even Gibson have made an exception for Slash's guitar. Especially given that they have copied it and included it in their range themselves. However technically it remains a counterfeit and is illegal to sell. I've done lots of videos on this subject and hope that you enjoy checking some of them out my friend.
CGS = Chibson Gibson Stores
Lol😜
I bet you this is more widespread than anybody thinks.
Unfortunately I think so!
I agree. I had to tell guitar center one day that they had a fake on their website
It's too bad that people are doing this. I'm steering clear of the whole thing by buying a new epiphone inspired by Gobson. I'm surprised that retailers have gotten into this rotten business, but also I guess I understand it. I don't approve of it in any way.
I couldn't, wouldn't buy one on ebay, EVER!
It's been going on for decades, it's just that the quality of the fakes (and budget brand guitars in general) has exceeded the level in some cases of the primary manufacturer themselves but without the brand tax included. The main brands have created this situation themselves in some respects by placing their own production in Asia in order to make more profit (US brand price / Asian build cost) and providing technical insight. Way back in the 80's, Fender empowered a Korean company to make their Squire range of guitars but were particularly slack in the contract. The same Korean company then took that insight and created the Young Chang line of guitars alongside the Squires they were producing for Fender except (and this is a critical point), they made them better than the Squire and sold them for less (initially).
These were introduced to European dealers through Holland and Fender largely didn't notice or react to the introduction. In phase 2, after establishing the trade connections, Young Chang stepped up and began producing a SuperStrat (and other Fender off-shoots) which were several levels above the Squire - in fact they challenged the US main lines. The SuperStrat had an Alder body, maple neck with binding, rosewood fingerboard and a genuine Floyd Rose. The controls (apart from the switches) were pretty chunky and the pickups half decent in a HSS set up that gave a much stronger overdrive option than a standard Stratocaster - no boost pedals were required, just a half decent valve amp (and maybe a wah pedal). They sold like hot cakes to musicians working gigs.
Fender finally woke up after 3 years and shut the company down (or bought them off - it's murky). The point here is that the Korean guitar in the late 80's was better equipped than the American Fender.... well built and and cheaper. And quality? Well mine is still playing today over 30 years later, so you be the judge. I have a near identical HSS Fender Stratocaster as well which is more practical for live work sans Floyd Rose (string changes) but there isn't much between them for tone and playability. PIC: bit.ly/3efEzFQ
I am not condoning fakes at all or suggesting that they are all high quality - you will always get dodgy entrepreneurs taking advantage shipping rubbish under someone else's brand label - go to an island like Tenerife - it's selling of fake everything, but Young Chang were a legitimate Korean manufacturer and were able to do what they did because Fender gave them the intel and didn't contractually prevent them. I have no issue with owning the YC.
I have a very hard time believing that seasoned professionals in the field of musical equipment were not aware that they had multiple counterfeits.
I think it is clear that somebody knew what they were doing to list them us unbranded.
Damn, that's a scoop. Appreciate you being fair but thorough about this, dude 🤘
Thanks Mike. I did my best despite it being a bit out of my comfort zone. Great to meet and chat with you at NAMM buddy :-)
I like what Phil McKnight does, he'll brand "FAKE" on the back of the headstock. If done deep enough, there would be no way of getting rid of it.
Love Phil. He's got the right idea as ever! :-)
Ouch !
Yea,I saw that episode where the guy came in to Phil for a clean up over haul for the guitar he just bought. And ends up being a dud. I forget,was it a schecter knock off or...?Something like that maybe P.R.S?
Counterfeit strings, straps, tuners you name it are starting to creep into the market
Not just guitars, it's actually getting ridiculous
All brought to you by the same people that just crashed the world economy and killed countless thousands.
Dennis Applegate you said it. I agree with it.
Dennis Applegate They can do whatever they wanna do the only thing in this world 🌎 that give orders is BALLZ. And China has em bcs we gave outs to them
@@dennisapplegate7553 hell yeah! They should brand them
" covid , corona series Whuan"
And if a company try to sue them the just go and buy the company with the profit that they had stealing the brand. The free world should just boycot their ass.
Somebody didn’t “put a Gibson logo on there” this guitar was made in China as a counterfeit Gibson. His “assumption” is a lie. So is the statement that it was only 5 guitars in question, more like 500.
I think we need to give the store a chance to prove these were mistakes.
@@Chinaguitarsceptic Wasn't any mistakes in that shit. They are unscrupulous.
To say these guitars are "unbranded" is surely a crime in itself, as they clearly show brand names - albeit counterfeit ones! WHat were they thinking?! Richtone seem to have a very strange business policy anyway, as most web links I follow of theirs end up showing items that are out of stock.
Check the store again in a few months, see if they're still doing it.
I don't think I will be the only one doing this. 😊👍
This is absolutely shocking, it’s amazing the way the owner passes the buck. This is how innocent people get ripped off, it’s terrible. Gibson and Fender need to take legal action on these type of people.
I would not like to have been put on the spot like that and feel he was very direct while diplomatic in distancing himself from knowledge. He certainly knew it was wrong!
not necessarily, but it would be very good to stop charging way way too much for an item that can be easily copied and reproduced to the point MOST people in the world would never know the difference... yes?
I think what it comes down to as a business that sells products if you can't stand behind what you're selling it says a lot about your business and the fact that he refused to stand behind both the products listed by his business and the people who work for him who buy and sell the guitars says a lot about how confident he is in the legality and honesty of his business it shouldn't matter if he's been put on the spot he should be able to confidently say without a doubt what's going on in his business why it's going on and stand behind it people only distance themselves when you put them on the spot if they know they have something to hide
It's going to come to a point where if you are buying a high end guitar (as a deal sealer) you don't hand over any money until you've got a screw driver out and checked all the electrics. If the store won't allow you to, go elsewhere. Difficult with online purchases I know, but only buy from reputable dealers with full money back guarantees, if the product turns out to be spurious. Far more likely that you are going to get stung with replaced 'pots' and 'pups.' It's a minefield out there.
It feels almost impossible to be sure what you're buying these days.
They may be listing these guitars as 'unbranded', but in effect they are deliberately putting fakes into circulation. They were traded in by customers no doubt looking to upgrade to a 'genuine' guitar, and the shop had a chance to take a fake out of circulation. If they are an official Gibson dealer, then why on earth would they be promoting and selling fakes?
I wonder what Gibson would think if they knew what this shop had done? Their attitude to this sort of thing is very well known.
Good work CGS.
Why is the store buying the fakes, thats a serious problem
Thanks for giving them the opportunity to respond. One workers decision could have very serious effect on an entire brand. Owners may not have known of these business practice and,hopefully,very grateful for having this brought to his attention in this manner.
He was very grateful.
Common issue all over the world. I got burnt by a certain large European guitar store back in 2008 when they sold me a "Gibson 1982 Moderne" for 3000.00 Euro Dollars, it arrived in Australia several months later and was a refinished Epiphone version with later model Gibson pickups installed. Luckily , Visa credit cards took over and the store refunded me in full without asking for the guitar in question to be returned. Only that they hoped that I wouldn't talk about it but why shouldn't I when tell people to the Max.
Ah buddy that sucks but I'm really pleased you got your money back. Nice bonus you got to keep the guitar too, hopefully it's a player? Cheers mate 🎸😊👍
Being a lefty who has tried to get many made and turned down, even interrogated once by Peavey on the phone, "Where did you hear that" as he pursued the pt angrily really, when saying I heard they were going to make HPCT's in lefty - so there are two ways of looking at it and frankly this is rock and roll and one of my fav songs is Breaking th eLaw and I dont give hoot - in fact Im very grateful for it, at least China will make em! AT least now finally since Im over 50 and been wanting for 40 yrs! Now lefties can have an EVH guiitar too, or a Zakk rebel, or Bullseye, just like you righties. A blessing at least b4 I die of old age. #ALL4EM!
Tony Yayo if you're looking for lefties check out some Harley Benton good quality and they make all different patterns of guitars in left
It was not some guy that applied the GIBSON logo. It came from China like that.
I think so in the case of the sg for sure. One of the dc models looks like a Gibson sticker
Not watched any of your videos for a LOOONG time. It's great to come back and see how much you and your channel have grown! This some top notch content mate! Keep it up!
Thanks mate that's really good to know and I hope you're here to stay.
Regardless of what happens if they are buying and selling fakes once they will do it again they may place them in a case and sprinkle them threw the inventory
Their official statement convinces me that they are not only aware of this fraud, but are culpable as well.
Great video Mike, and I thought you handled it really fairly and properly.
Thank you mate. Did my best.
If a person purchases a fake with full knowledge that it IS fake, plays it for X amount, can they in turn re-sell the guitar without divulging it is not the true brand?
That's illegal but exactly the problem I cover here. That's what many bad eggs do and rip people off.
Good work. Being the guy who points this stuff out isn’t an easy role. I can see multiple sides in this. Clearly, the guitars shouldn’t just be thrown in the garbage, but having them out there as they are is not good either. The stores should refuse to take them in, at the very least.
Cheers Brad sorry I missed this comment. You're totally right it's not easy being that guy. I thought of you and felt like you while I was making the call to the store - you've inspired me! Stay safe brother.
Brad the man!
I'm glad he is addressing it.
If such stores have a possibility of getting their hands on fake products related to official Brands suppliers they work with, why not just make a dedicated showroom of fake products, not for sale obviously, but rather in means of educational purpose for the customers, to spread the word on fake gear issue.
That would definitely be interesting to see and would draw more potential clients to their stores.
I love this idea. It would also get them out of circulation as well as educating.
Very cool that you called the store. Most ppl wouldn't have the balls to confront stores like that.
Thank you. It was a novel experience but I wanted them to have their say.
Wow. Good on you, Mike, for calling this out. Even if they're selling them as "unbranded", selling with fake brand ID is inexcusable for a reputable dealer who wants to stay reputable. The danger of course, aside from the IP law, is that someone else will get ripped off. A good friend of mine, or his wife, depending on which version of the story you believe, paid "Gibson" prices for a completely fake Les Paul Custom recently.
So sorry to hear about your buddy and his wife, this is exactly why I follow these things up. It's all too easy for people to make a fast buck if they are dishonest.
I have no sympathy for a company that sells fake guitars they should be prosecuted.
Sometimes people make mistakes and need a second chance buddy. Let's check back to see...
There is no 'muddy water'. Shouldnt be traded.
Good video. I think you were more than fair. Personally I believe the owner was already aware that counterfeits passed through the store but probably thought that tagging them "unbranded" was sufficient to cover themselves. Personally if I were running the store, I would either refuse to accept them, or use a stamp or brand that neatly decades the branding.
Sadly I think you might be right. I've covered further transgressions in more recent videos
Woah...tricky...and glad you made us aware of this...have always been wary of buying, especially high priced, used guitars for this very reason! Good on that company for making a statement about the fakes and a refund to customers! Great info! As always...You Rock Mike! 😎🎸🎹🤘🐦
Cheers laz, yes I think the responded very well.
Great video! I have a Gibson Les Paul studio, and a Fender Pro Strat. I've also got 'knock-off guitars (none with a fake logo). Nothing wrong with a copy guitar, as long as its not branded with a fake logo. I love all my guitars, even some I've bought for as little as $20. As long as you know what you're actually getting.
Thanks Casey. Yes the most important thing is not letting the fakes get out in the wild!
Thank you for letting the owner have a word in about it. It's possibly that this has actually gone under his nose from the managers operating the website and the staff selling the guitar. I wouldn't like to see the fella lose his business or personally be screwed over because member of staff has purposely took on a Chibson and tried to sell it.
It's vital to be balanced and fair. I think he's responded very well.
Rich Tone seem to have published a blog on the 6th May denouncing fakes et cetera. All very laudable.
However this is completely at odds with the practice of selling the 'Gibson' and 'Fender' fakes as unbranded...
A point not wasted on many my friend but they had to react in some way and this is better than no reaction
They knew what they were doing. My son caught a music store doing that here in the states too.
Such a shame 😔
Which store--
And when?
Good work there Mike - a real public service broadcast! Fakes can be hard to spot sometimes but not in those cases. The SG was obviously an Epiphone (Epiphoney!) just from looking at the bridge p/u position compared to the Gibson version of that guitar. The shop has no excuse. If they want to buy guitars with non-original brand logos, that’s fine BUT they have to remove the ‘fake’ logos before selling/advertising the instruments.
Thx buddy and I totally agree with you.
i know of several people here in the states that have made a career out of selling chinese gibsons and rickenbackers to pawn shops. youd be surprised how many pawn shops dont know the differences between real and fake.
There you go and these things then get out in the market as real until someone who knows what they're looking at finds them
The owner should have said. If anybody at any time bought a fake guitar from us and have the receipt, we will give a full refund. Not just for the five guitars highlited.
I think that's what they have said on their statement on their website now.
Very well thought out with your bases covered. I don't know why they would sell an "unbranded" guitar that was branded in any way shape or form. So they sell the guitar and say that was legit because of sign. What does the next person do with it? Exactly..... Personally I would never buy from them again if I ever did. I feel sorry for any of the honest folks caught up in the lie. That is unfortunate!!!
There's never a way to legitimise selling fake guitars, but I think they have the right response here.
Counterfeit: Made in exact imitation of something valuable with the intention to DECEIVE or DEFRAUD.
However if potential bidders are made aware the item is not the real McCoy, & the seller is not a company or firm, but a private individual selling on an Auction site, which must be conversant with trading rules, thereby removing the intention to deceive the buyer.
Yes but they are using patented headstocks that are not allowed on any guitar but production models.
Beyond trade mark issues the country of origin is violating import regulations. I spent a career in intl trade compliance and this is a serious offense.
Screw em. Dealers selling new fakes KNOW they're selling em. Used ones, well, they're human and anyone can get fooled, but new guitars should be coming direct from the distributer.
Rose Morris got their fingers burnt in the 70s, distributing Ricenbackers AND copies of Rics. It was a long time before you could buy a brand new Ric in Britain after that.
It's a real worry
As somebody who dose buy stuff from that store and know some of the staff they always do a good service I would suggest they remove the logos on theses guitars and in future don’t accept fake ones keep up the great content
Ps sometimes you find these fakes on carboots
Those guitars are sold mate but they have offered to refund the buyers. If they take the guitars back in the best thing they can do is strip the logos, but the open book would also need altering as it's a Gibson trademark too.
Going forward they need to tell customers its illegal for them to ask to trade in a fake and they must keep their fakes! 😊👍
@@Chinaguitarsceptic ' ... they must keep their fakes!' - is that right? or remove the logos before they on sell.
Dispite them being listed as fake they should not have been up for sale for the very reasons you listed. Now that being said I don't feel that the store was necessarily being devious but it shows a mentality that "Hey I sold it as fake what happens after this is not my problem". I would tend to believe that if you did not call them out that they would keep on with the same practices unaddressed in store. Now let's see what happens six months from now. What needs to be done if fake one of two things:1 refuse them on trade or 2 hot brand the back of the headstock with the word counterfeit.
It's simply not legal to sell them with Gibson or Fender on the headstock. We will hopefully see an improvement in staff training and a change in policy to not take in guitars with aftermarket logos as they put it. We'll monitor and see. :-)
Wow, it sounds like the owner was a little surprised that this was happening. He could of been faking it, but, if it is a reputable dealer they would be nuts to sell fakes knowing it. I see his point that they are doing a really high volume and it would be easy for these to slip through. I think it was smart to run it by your patrons first. Very wise.
As always thanks for the great content and wisdom. Have a great day.
Thanks very much my friend. Yes I give James the benefit of the doubt this time. I will check back just to be sure. I'm sure it's possibly just a slip up but not for me to judge. 😊👍
"They are doing a really high volume and it would be easy for these to slip through" is a shit response from someone selling fakes for $$$. People Will extract physical revenge for such behavior.
I know that Gibson has been trying to sue companies like Kiesel and Dean Guitars for copying the rights of their guitars. But Fender has had their share of companies copying their guitars too.You would think that Fender would take action too. But they are not.But to save me from being ripped off, I'm sticking with the 2 guitars I already have. I know they are not fakes.
Fender have taken the clever tack of having great guitars at all price points so they are almost not worth faking. Very smart in my opinion
@@Chinaguitarsceptic Now that you talked about Fender, have you seen the new Harley Benton strat? You can't tell me it's not another copy of Fender. I just seen it yesterday.
Why don't reputable just stamp "Fake " on the back of the headstock. Problem solved. Simular to the stamping "second " on damaged guitars or flaws.
I agree mate but it's still illegal to sell.
I've wondered this as well. I had a fake Fender Stratocaster that was a piece of junk. I sanded most of the name "Fender" off of the headstock and donated it to charity. I thought about writing (or carving) "FAKE" on the back of the headstock, but was unsure on how to properly do it, and I was concerned that someone could possibly remove (or cover up) the word "fake" at a later time.
IMO they will have taken the fakes in as part exchange, the sales staff will be under pressure to make the sale so will pretty much take anything in..... the part exchange may have even been used as a deposit for finance.
If I see one more “lit mobile” ad before a video comes on I’ll go nuts
E. Nathan Glass ; yes that advert has brainwashed me so much, I find myself trying to sell them to friends and family 😂
Raid Shadow Legends for me. My 5 year old screams from across the room when he hears the ad start
Adblockers work
I thought about getting a Chibson about a year ago but I couldn't bring myself to look at a guitar hanging on my wall knowing it was fake no matter how good it was. It's insane how widespread this problem is!
It's quite a huge problem since all of the fakes have been imported in recent years.
If it said Tokai or whoever on it would be one thing.
So are only guitars with branded stickers on the head stock classed as fake or do the big brands own the rights to the look of a guitar.
Oh my. Perhaps you may have opened the proverbial "can of worms." None the less, a buyer needs to do due diligence in not only musical instrument purchases, but in all premier brands as well. Nice job.
Thank you. Yes can opened but I hope fairly and balanced. 🙏
The Chibsons are all over ebay, obviously. They never show the headstock or mention any branding or anything beyond something like "custom guitar" that's identical in every way from the photos. I bought an ES-345 Gibson "style" guitar direct from China to San Francisco for less than $250 including shipping. Knew what I was getting quality wise, however, I was surprised that it had the complete Gibson shaped headstock with their logo and even a fake serial number and "Made in USA" on the back of it. Ebay and importers should be the ones who are held accountable, as well. Thanks for the video!
It's scary what's out there in the wild now. I would not buy a second hand Gibson despite being confident that I know all the tells of a potential fake. The copies are getting so close to the real deal now it is only a matter of time until they get it perfect unless they are stopped!
CGS Fortunately, Gibson is the only maker in the US (that I’m aware of) that still use nitro lacquer. So you can literally smell if it’s the real deal.
People just want the style of the gibson for a cheaper price!! I would love to own a Gibson Les Paul but $3000 for one is over priced!! Ima settler with a copy of one from china for $250!!!
Humberto Gonzalez Hey, I get it. When I was a kid I wanted a Les Paul like Ace Frehley’s, so my parents got me a cheap copy for Christmas from the Sears catalog.
Fakes were likely better quality, better tone, better workmanship with stronger necks so the head stock does not snap off so easily. What they did wrong was, if true, is claiming they are Gibson when they are not, if they knew this. .
Yeah Yeah absolutely... Well clearly they was not a reputable dealer. There is no excuse for that. You do not trade these products.
Somebody should have known better I think.
Great video. I enjoyed your tone, demeanor and educational approach. Very impressed. Look forward to seeing new videos. Much love from the USA
Thank you very much indeed my friend I'm glad that it came over as intended. 😊👍🙏
shop in ulster county ,NY selling all chibsons. My Chibson says made in china on back of head. I had a 1955 Les Paul and the chibson plays as well except intonation at 12 fret.
What shop mate. Are they branded as chibson. If so that would be hilarious! I would actually have no issue with that. I think guitar shapes should all be fair game and only brand names trademark protected. So I would have no problem seeing that chibson guy license the name for this purpose. I bet he's behind this!
My own dealings at Rich Tone have been less than positive. Can't say I'd have expected this but unhelpful, pushy seem to be their byline. Staff talking badly about customers in front of other customers also seems common there.
Oh dear that's very disappointing mate
Hmmm. They shouldn't have taken them in. Ive seen ads that say this is not a fender even thought it has the logos on the headstock. What you were saying about somebody that buys one to con someone. I saw a red sg on Facebook for £4000. It had gibson on the headstock and was listed as so. When I checked the hwadstock I could find no record of that design anywhere. So I asked the guy if it was fake, publicly. Guess what? He bought it like that and didn't know. Yeah right. If its too good to be true its probably fake. That triology (guitarology) guy has done videos on this and points out fakes on his channel. Keep up the good work. Great stuff.
Point them out to me and I'll cover the story so people know what to look out for. 👍
I am astonished richtone are. Selling this type of product I have bought in the past from them will never deal again
I have bought a few "tribute" import guitars.... I knew they were fakes, and I never claimed them to be anything else. I basically bought them as art. I have also sold said guitars and told the buyer straight out "these are import fakes, these are wall hangers". Intentionally selling counterfeits as genuine is just low, you can check serials easily online.
I’ve bought a couple of high end guitars from RichTone. Most recently a £5k ZW Bullseye. I’ve always found them to be very good and happy to answer any questions about the guitar. I will definitely continue to shop with them
Thanks for sharing! I think they just had a bad run of luck
@@Chinaguitarsceptic love your channel only just discovered it! Keep up the important work!
You make my day and I'm so glad you're here my friend.
Just ran across this video man I love your content it's not just entertaining it's very informative and educational it takes a lot to gather the information to bring this out into the open just like with the Hendrix Monterey Strat that Paul David played thank you so much for your time and the effort and attention to detail when doing these videos kudos hats off to you you are a gentleman and a scholar one hell of a guy
Wow thank you my friend
Who wants to have a Gibson-logo on his guitar anyway after what they did in 2019?
You'd be surprised how much brand recognition carriers a failing company, and how many new kids want one, even in the age of online luthiers everywhere.
agree. Gibson crap.
Well that's a whole other video my friend! 😁
Mike, good work my man! Well said as usual :) Cheers!
Thanks Kevin. Stay safe mate. 😊👍🙏
You handled it like a true professional. Mistakes in large companies are made. The mark of a great company is to recognise mistakes and rectify the situation. This was a win win for both the store and the consumer
Thank you very much :-)
Who thinks they get a new Les Paul for a hundred pounds ?
@Bloom Tik Bloom - Who thinks they get a Les Paul for a few hundred then. Most people has google
@Bloom Tik Bloom - They were to throw both him and his guitars on the fire
I weigh 175 pounds...what kind of les paul do you think that wou get me?
Those guys are thoroughly fucked... I'm sure some people are gonna be fired... But... Gibson and Fender should take legal action against them for this.
Just found this channel, liked and subscribed! Thanks music friend:)
Thank you very much and welcome to the channel 😊👍
I’m a little confused why a licensed Gibson/Fender shop would be willing to participate in this. It helps bolster the market for fakes even if they list it as “unbranded” with a “fake decal” and pricing accordingly. Maybe customers are trading these in on a purchase of the real thing and the shop is trying to recoup some value. Even so, if you rationalize that, the decal should be scratched off and maybe even the FAKE burned into the back of the headstock, but personally, I would toss them in the bin or refuse them in the shop at all. Maybe a pawn broker would be a different story but for a licensed retailer it makes no sense to pass them on.
No sense at all. I couldn't see why they'd do it.
Wow I would never thought the fakes would end up in rich tone, didn't even think to check these places out, quite the scoop sir!!
It was a story I'd rather not have had to cover mate.
Buying for yourself = OK, Selling under the table as novelty fakes to customers aware - Against the law but not immoral, Trying to pass off real as fake guitars - immoral and against the law.
Selling fakes is always illegal in UK and USA
@@Chinaguitarsceptic As stated "Selling under the table as novelty fakes to customers aware - Against the law but not immoral" Yeah I understand that, my point was passing them off as real in a store at RRP is a bit 'morally' different than selling to a mate explicitly stating it is fake for a score. I think what is really scary is there may be forgers out there that do it so good the only an experienced luthier can tell the difference. Believe me, I have to played one like that. Compared to other things to fake like Swiss Watch mechanics guitars are a cakewalk. The happy medium is to get one custom made without the logo.
Anyway, I bought a fake Rolex submariner to see how it feels for a year before buying a new authentic one. Some of the fakes have the 7 sweeping motion now and are hard to detect, mine was 5 and cost 80 quid and lasted a few years. Pretty sure 99% of those who buy can't afford a real Gibson, to begin with, end up buying a real one in the future, or parts and hardware anyway. in a way, copycats are compliments in disguise.
@@Chinaguitarsceptic "Selling fakes is always illegal in UK and USA" Many, many things are illegal in the world of rock and roll.
I had issues with Rich Tone Music in the past not with counterfeit items but with how they protect products and items before they come out of there store, and i did not find them that helpful and had to ring about 10 times before we came to a common ground on the issue, but it resulted in me not wanting to buy from them again. They sent an item in the case, a case that was not designed for the item and it damaged the switch (could have been protected) and 2 of the buttons. I then had to get these items fixed out of my own pocket, but they seemed very blazie about it all. Its a shame to hear they are not looking after stock or customers properly
It seems that there are a few, shall we say, less than happy customers. I will be monitoring the situation/store and happy to take up any issues reported to me.
I had very high recommendations from a trusted friend and patron that lead me to contact them, but I also know that there are 3 sides to every story. Thanks for letting me know brother :-)
@@Chinaguitarsceptic Very true, im not in the market for trying to bring people down or companies down or being negative about them but to highlight issues that ive had with them, im sure they are honest mistakes and honest problems, but i feel some companies especially in the guitar sector need to get better not just how they are run but the customer experience also.
I had problems too, I saw a nice Honeyburst LP traditional standard it said in stock, I was talking to the guy and he said yes it's still here, he went and checked then, so I paid for it, and got a phone call a couple of hours later, and was told sorry someone come in the shop and bought it before I bought it, so how was it there still if he had bought and taken it, Also on a few occasions I have been told they have had gear in stock ie Roland blues cube , so have paid for it and wondered why i hadn't received tracking details then rang them and been told out of stock, so then i have to wait days to get my cash refunded, which stops me buying from someone else , i have bought used gibson from a while back, now a bit concerned for it's authenticity :-( PS I buy from Coda or Anderton's they are both really good :-)
I think the shop had to have known what they’re doing. Surely anybody that works in a guitar shop knows about counterfeit guitars and that they’re not meant to be sold.
You'd hope so really for sure.
Sounds like a bunch of retailer bs to me. They obviously knew they were fakes by the selling price and should never have sold them with the name on the headstock. Now check local listings for these guitars being sold as the real deal by those who bought them. Obviously they didn't care and also never put any thought into the fact some douchebag is going to make a load of cash by ripping off someone who thinks he or she is buying the real thing. If I were in the UK I'd never buy a guitar from this retailer.
well i think he missed the point that they knew it was a fake and bought it and sold it anyway.
I didn't miss that mate, but it's polite to offer the benefit of the doubt. Subtle I know but the best way to handle it IMHO.
At the price they were sold i doubt anyone would have been fooled into thinking they got a real Gibson. If this is not a recurrent offense and the owner apologized I think they should get a pass. That said, this store should face the consequences if they ever do that again.
Had dealings with rich tone, bought one amplifier was given a terrible trade in deal but was desperate. Never trusted the guitar department, there was always an air of the staff not being fully honest about stuff. Always feel they were bullshitting me. I live in Sheffield but travel to PMT Leeds or even GAK in Brighton to buy guitars.
Sorry to hear that. I found James to be polite and diplomatic but I guess I was letting him know his store had broken the law. 😂
Do Diligence and buy Reputable Honest dealers stock......no Fakes no Lowdown Dirty sneaking copies.......sell 'EM cheaper than SQUIRE.......it's illegal to buy for resale and SELL as REAL.....🇨🇱🤠🎸🎶
Well CGS, you yourself have positively contributed to the sale of thousands of chibsons regardless of the disclaimers.
I bet you I have a net deficit
BUSTED!
Difficult. 🙄
@@Chinaguitarsceptic It's Sad that a seemingly reputable dealer would knowingly do this. But you did the right thing, and did it in the proper way, covering all avenues.
honestly if he moves that much product and he has other people managing his store, it makes since that one of his staff would make a bad judgement call and sell them. We should cut him some slack, After all , they were not trying to pass them off as real Gibsons. What you did was great but others would've liked to have seen him get in trouble. It is ridiculous how some people would say throw them under the bus. Some losers just want to watch the world burn.
Hunt Project
While I agree with that general sentiment, the responsibility still ultimately falls on the owner to ensure his employees aren't going rogue and either being totally boneheaded, at the most innocent level of offense, or being knowingly unscrupulous at the worst level of offense when selling product that is clearly not the genuine article.
Ohh C'mon @Hunt Project , if the Store Owner doesn't know what is for sale at his store, his employees could be selling drugs also! It's common sense and he deserve an effective punishment for his acts. Period.
You caught him with his pants down. LOL
Little bit - not a pretty sight! :-)
If the owner of Richtone is willing to sell those he should have them stamped in a way they can't be mistaken or resold as legitimate..in my eyes thats his responsibility once they are in his hands to help stop this overwhelming issue of the market being flooded by these..Gibson and fender should pull their guitars from that dealer..im bitter cuz I bought a fake spending 3000.00 on it ..i am an expert on these particular guitars and the only way I caught it was measurements were off..other then that everything was copied amazingly..it was still a quality instrument and they did a fantastic job replicating it but it was sold an authentic USA custom shop..i called the custom shop and the serial # was correct but matched a guitar very well known as it matched the number on a huge players number one guitar..they contacted this very very famous player to make sure his wasn't stolen and sure enough he had it sitting at his house..ive got a big collection of these guitars and thankfully after going through and checking each one they were all legit because I bought from this seller once before..the seller gave me a full refund and let me keep the guitar..to top it all off the signatures model endorsey actually had this in his hands and signed it not realizing it was a fake of his number one..it was that good
Maybe you could do an Episode Titled...Are Fake Gibsons becoming too expensive ?
Lol yup they are!
Thank you Mike for helping all musicians in the USA 🇺🇸 and across to all Oceans of people that love their music Instruments and want to Buy ,an original one at a Fair price. "WELL DONE SIR "!!!
Thank you 😊🙏👍
Sounds like he is passing the buck
What do you think of handcrafted "Fenders" & "Gibsons" like those made by Max Baranet, Kris Derrig, Tom Paul & Buzzy? They're all meticulous replicas of vintage instruments right down to last detail and even bear the logo & serial number, but marketed as replicas & not originals?
Check out my videos on white collar fakes mate. I think one is the 12k fake and 44k fake
Btw did you see your shout out in my latest video brother?
CGS yes I did! Thanks for the shout out! I've had a channel for awhile but life hasn't afforded me time to dedicate to uploads. But this coronavirus may change that. I love your channel and your playing. Keep on keepin on, bruh!
@@kickinvideo333 thanks dude! Yeah do videos man I'll watch! 👍
Shhhhh!
Here's a tip: you can usually spot a Gibson replica by the headstock. The "open book" carve of the headstock on old bursts aren't symmetrical. If you look closely, the left "page" lay more flat while the right has a more upcurl sweep. The center crease is sharper than those made by a CNC toolbit, and the left radius is smaller than the right. It's a subtle detail which everyone overlooks - even Gibson
As a frequent customer at this dealer over the years I can say that I have experienced excellent service, choice and quality over the years. This video hopefully will iron out these few cases and help Richtone to improve their service even more. Having bought Fender and Gibson products at Richtone both new and used I have been dealt genuine items at fair pricepoints. These incidents were hopefully just isolated unfortunate oversights. There is of course a responsibility as a consumer to research products and what to look out for before and during the purchasing process. Richtone is a fantastic store and I will be happy to continue to do business with them in the future. This video I hope will help Richtone improve these areas and help eradicate cointerfeit items from the open market. Rock on.
Very well said. I hope they will continue to develop in a positive direction.
You sound like a fake reviewer.Do you work for Richtone?
Stores licensed to sell legitimate brands know when they have a fake. They should be held responsible. Contacting them and giving them an opportunity to make it right was a blessing for the store. Good job Mike!
Thx mate I thought it was the right thing to do first time out. Sadly I have found the issue persisting and didn't give them this courtesy again.
I personally don’t like fake Gibson’s and fenders. They don’t make me overly mad as long as people don’t act like they are the real thing
It only makes me mad when they pass them off as the real deal when selling them.
Knowingly selling unbranded instruments with brand stickers on them? Lose your dealership maybe? Wow!
Very likely if it happens again!
When.you.look.at.all.the.guitars,amps,strings.etc.on.Amazon,a.lot.of.them.come.from.this.lot.
Just having to post such an “Official Statement” disclaimer proves that they are a unscrupulous dealer. Do not buy anything in this store.
I think they need a chance to put things right but you're right there really is no excuse for passing on fakes at any price
This guy tried to get away with it and make a quick buck
Possibly I leave that to viewers discretion mate 😁👍
SOP for that guy.
I'm thinking he knew, he just got caught and by his own admission they handle a massive number of used instruments. I will be searching for the followup video.
Good job Mike!well done great info hope you and family are doing well,Cheers
Thanks very much my friend and yes we're all good thank you buddy. I hope you and yours are all well too. stay safe my friend
If you sell a Cort guitar, for example, with a fender logo on, and state that it is not a fender, unfortunately you can’t do anything about it
Still illegal to sell Bob so there's plenty trading standards can do
This is a buyer beware world in spite of all the consumer protection laws. I put the onus on buyers to ensure their purchases are legit. Cheats and law breakers simply want your money for the least effort. Be sure to protect yourself by buying from trusted dealers. If this isn't possible, the buyer must know enough not to be ripped off.
Very true
so your ratting out on this guy. you should have just kept it quiet and told gibson and fender. my friend at gibson said he will be permanently cuttoff.
I wonder how the law looks at replicas as in for lack of a better example say a Chris Derrig Les Paul like Slash has that's branded Gibson but obviously wasnt built at Gibson. Not sure if the wood and all the parts are genuine Gibson but still the fact is that it was not made at the factory. I'm sure there are thousands of replicas like that out there made by reputable luthiers but not at Gibson, Fender or elsewhere. I guess technically it still counts as counterfeit and replica is just a nicer way of describing it. Idk, the thought just crossed my mind and I was curious about that. Because imagine if that guitar of Slash's hits the market one day with the history it has behind it. Would it be technically illegal to sell since its branded as a Gibson Les Paul? 🤔
I think even Gibson have made an exception for Slash's guitar. Especially given that they have copied it and included it in their range themselves. However technically it remains a counterfeit and is illegal to sell. I've done lots of videos on this subject and hope that you enjoy checking some of them out my friend.