Innovative or irrelevant? Schiit Urd CD transport and DDC review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- Buy Schiit Urd: www.schiit.com/products/urd
A review of the Schiit Urd CD transport, digital-to-digital converter and USB switching hub thing. Review includes comparison of CD playback with streamed and local music, use as a DDC to improve sound quality, and potential audio setups that can make the most of the Urd.
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00:00 Introduction
01:01 Glamour video
01:48 Price & features
02:09 Device tour
07:30 Minor issues
11:15 Sonic performance
12:03 CD Transport vs streamed audio
14:05 CD Transport vs local files
16:12 Urd with streamer vs Urd with PC
17:41 Urd as a DDC
20:48 Final conclusions
#audiophile #audioreview #cdplayer - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
You Urd it here first folks.
Ooh, nice one!
cmon stop that Schiit.
"GET OFF THE STAAAAGE!!!"
Someone had to say it
Ba Dum! Tsss...
I bought the Urd on release and your review and conclusions fit my experience pretty much exactly; this product only provides it's full value in a relatively niche scenario that may be more common for headphone use than 2-channel. Listening on Focal Clear headphones via a Mjolnir 2 amp into an Yggdrasil connected via AES the most dramatic improvement in quality I discerned was from the generic USB on my PC into the URD vs. straight into an Yggdrasil. Much darker 'blackground', the music 'blooms' and has significantly more of the qualities you described. It didn't sound 'bad' before, but I would never choose to go back at this point.
The difference between streaming Roon from my PC to the Urd vs. listening to what I'm reasonably confident is the same master on CD is less dramatic but still a noticeable improvement via CD, and you did a good job of describing it as I've experienced it; it's not "night and day" but it's there, and if your goal is to sit down and listen to an album it's the way I would choose to listen at this point.
I've also experienced with an iFi Zen Stream into the Urd as a Roon-exclusive endpoint, and the difference between it and the PC as a source is not evident. I'm also not able to tell much if any difference, much less improvement, pushing the Zen Stream into the Urd vs. directly into the Unison input on the Yggdrasil. It is definitely more convenient to switch between the PC and Zen Stream inputs on the Urd than via the DAC, however.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Urd!
@calebkeen8967 you're saying that the "Urd" cleans up the sound? It sounds better to you going from PC to Urd to Yggy versus PC to Yggy directly? That is interesting. I have been thinking of adding a Denafrips Iris 12th DDC into my chain to see what that would bring: PC > DDC > Yggy.
@@woodprivacy3776 Yes, the Urd is a DDC and in my experience the sound was better PC>>Urd>>Yggy than PC>>Yggy. The Unison Input/Output synergy made a discernible difference. Whether it's your flavor is another question. I quite like the AES connection b/t Urd and Yggy as well.
This overprized product is a scam!
I love CDs.
They're cheap (especially second hand), sound good, I rip them to put FLACs on the player, and they can't be taken away from me like some songs on streaming services - not to mention the fact that none of those services track my listening.
Another CD transport option, without the USB functionality, is the Cambridge CXC. I have it and think it sounds fantastic versus streaming files. It's $599. I still have 100s of CDs, and it's easy to find CDs pretty cheaply online.
I've just had someone else ask me about that one compared to the Urd. I wonder how they compare?
The other CD transport that I am familiar with is the Audiolab CDT6000. It is around $550 US and sounds quite good; with a larger full function remote.
The DDC functionality is worth at least the difference. At least compared to the market.
I agree.
It may well be a great DDC, but in a stereo system, there are fewer streamers that use USB? And having a CD transport in a computer based system also seems slightly less likely?
Man Schiit has been spitting out some banging products lately! I bought the new Mjolnir 3 about a month ago and boy let me tell you coming from a SMSL SU9/SH9 stack I simply CANNOT stop listening to every song and every headphone I have again on the Mjolnir 3. The Sundara in particular has become a something even more special with this amp. It makes them shake and dance with that powerful pure Class A sound, I have the K712 Pro, HD660s, Drop 8xx and the Sundara and they seem to enjoy that amp the most! Don't get me wrong the other ones sound amazing and way better than on the SH9 but I noticed the most change in the Sundara which is leading me to believe they do scale well with amplification and pads. I have ZMF perforated sheepskins on my Sundara they sound great with the stock pads but for me these pads make them sound like a 1k headphone and now with the Mjolnir 3 they bumped up to a 2k headphone! I'm keeping this amp until i l die! F THX, measurements and pure clean dead amps get a Class A, tube or a Hybrid if you really want to enjoy music!
I'd love to try the MJ3 if/when they produce a 240V version. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Keep exploring DDC solutions. Thank you for the video!
The Schiit Urd is an interesting product, though frankly it is a bit more money than I was hoping. It has two laminated metal core AC transformers, by the way. So serious linear power supplies, but not toroidal transformers.
As I mentioned in a reply here, the Audiolab CDT6000 CD transport is my current unit, and it costs half as much as the Urd. It has an excellent linear power supply, and a large full featured remote. No USB hub, of course.
Those EI transformers are more expensive and performant. Arguably. But definitely more difficult to source and more expensive.
cannot get Audiolab here.
A solid cd player to a high level Dac is typically a better sourced than streaming. But it’s a marginal improvement and the trade off is access to an Infiniti catalog of music so streaming has become my go to .
Trade off?Who says you can't have both.
it is the 'infiniti catalog' that bothers me - could be just the dinosaur in me, but I prefer reading a book from start to finish over swimming in a sea of separate pages ;o) - I recently disconnected my streamer from my main system, and my media player from another - two CD transports do the job now, and enjoyment is back to premium nostalgia.
It's an interesting challenge, I think. Too much choice can absolutely get in the way of enjoying the music you know and love. The nice thing with the Urd is that it lets you integrate both seamlessly.
@@PassionforSound yes I agree that it allows for nice flexibility. And I am fully aware that this is my highly personal dinosaur view. In any case, I am keeping my streamer and media player, in case 'evolution' suddenly hits me :)
The online streaming catalogs are very lacking unless you only listen to mainstream music...only having a few albums of artists I like out of a dozen plus.
Time to get your hands on a mjolnir 3. I am absolutely over the moon with mine. Incredible sounding amplifier!
I've flagged it with Schiit, but the first batch weren't 240V compatible, I believe.
This was a fun video and as usual you pretty much managed to answer every single question that I might have had, and more. And it reminds me, I would like to see more videos about ddc’s and master clocks if that’s on the cards Lachlan. Thanks for an enjoyable video 👍
Glad you liked this one. I hadn't planned to review DDCs much further because I've tried 3-4 now (if we include the Urd) and they're all very comparable with just some very subtle sonic differences in a couple of cases. In other words, I don't know how much there is to say about them.
As for clocks, I don't have much gear (or any at the moment?) that uses an external clock so that's a bit tricky too (and also super niche).
I'm not saying I'll never do it, just that it's not on the immediate horizon.
@@PassionforSound one video that doesn’t seem to have been made yet, on any channel, is any sort of way to get the sound from a ps5 or Xbox series console through a Dac, given that the consoles only have hdmi out, and no Dac appears to exist with hdmi through. Any sort of high fidelity way to do it would be of great interest to me, because all I can find are cheap little audio extractors on Amazon. Just in case that inspires an idea for a video.
I don't own either console to do this, but don't they have USB ports? There are a number of dongles and DACs designed with switchable lower USB spec options to allow for console compatibility AFAIK.
@@PassionforSound well that’s the thing, some dacs are labelled as being able to connect to them with usb on ps5 only but any that I have tried got no signal. The console operation systems aren’t like windows or Mac, they don’t have drivers and things to support Dac connectivity. The older consoles had optical out, but the current gen ones don’t. Think you could borrow one for an experiment or two?
You are the only reviewer that I would trust to do this right, thoroughly and explain the results clearly, because you think of all the same question I do normally. If I want to connect headphones or IEM’s, it has to be directly to the controller and it sounds quite crap. You can hear it struggling to drive and control them properly.
My Urd plays CDRs or recorded mix audio disks just fine. It does not know what to do with FLAC or Mp3 disks but that's OK since I mostly have commercially made music CDs. The one SACD I have plays at the regular 16bit 44.1 so basically CD audio format only.
Yes, don't think Schiit has embraced DSD in SACD or otherwise (yet) in their DACs nor in the Urd. I guess that makes sense trying to offer the best bang for the buck here in 2023. But who knows if they might in the future. I never have understood why SACD players were always so expensive compared to "regular" CD players when today even "cheap" AVRs and some CD players can play DSD files in crazy resolutions via a USB connected flash drive (but you are stuck using their onboard DAC). Unfortunately, getting pure DSD files into an external DAC that can play them natively is still a crapshoot today, partly I guess due to licensing issues. Wish that would change.
Thanks for the info, Matthew!
As for DSD/SACD, none of Schiit's DACs support any inputs (or outputs in the case of Urd) above 192kHz so SACD is kind of irrelevant for them I guess.
At 18:39 , what internal card did you use in your PC ? Do you think internal Pcle Sound cards can improve sound quality and can you recommend any good cards? I am looking for a high quality Spdif optical output to feed a chord mojo.
I haven't played with internal soundcards, but they won't improve the output via USB - they'll just give you higher quality analog output (still not as good as most desktop DACs) and optical/coax digital outputs.
The card I was using was a JCat USB card: th-cam.com/video/HybaRn4sOx4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZwYyKMTIRp6NZWIT
A few years back I bought an Audiolab 6000cdt CD transport. Well built for around $550 if I remember correctly. I’ve connected it to my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ via a SPDIF cable.
I also bought the 6000cdt. Connected to a Denafrips Hermes DDC its a very nice transport without problems.
@@jakobgooijer - thanks for letting me know. Some people griped about the slot loader scratching their CDs. I’ve had no issues. Be well
Zero issues re scratched CDs. Never happens on my Audiolab transport. Much prefer slot loading to flimsy plastic tray loaders.
Just for clarity, the tray on the Urd is solid and uses metal runners for the main structural section. The platter for the disc is plastic, but the overall tray design is rock solid.
Lachlan, I love the way you conceive and execute your “tests.” Audiophile meets Newtonian experimental design. Nice.
Thank you! I'm glad you like the approach 🙂
No, the so called tests should include youngsters with good hearing! This overprized product has no future!
Hi Lachlan, if I write/ spell your name correctly. I have an old Schiit Gumby dac that I only use for CDs and a rather new only USB dac, the Ayre QB-9 Twenty. I have a SOtM streaming transport / USB bridge that feeds the Ayre. But that SOtM has only LAN as an input, so my computer I cannot listen to over the SOtM, when I have a TH-cam file I’d like to listen to for instance. The SOtM is a dedicated Qobuz player here. The Gumby does not beat the Ayre in quality. I don’t know if the Schiit Urd ddc USB hub uses Linux drivers. And if it would support DSD files. (I don’t have DSD) But in an ideal world, the 2 USB-hub-inputs would be fed by and my computer and by my SOtM USB bridge… Whereas the USB output could go to the Ayre USB dac. Also I could play my treasured CDs over the Ayre USB Dac, so I would not need an upgrade for the Gumby?! The Ayre dac needs a driver above 24/96, and I do listen to 24/192 Qobuz. Yes I would need new all silver USB cables,… (All I have is from Lavricables 28 core silver and MIT A to B). Is the Schiit Urd USB hub a magical creature that would not damage the sound and support 3 sources for the Ayre??? The 1600 euro Urd seems ideal, but is it? Kind regards Yoram
Hi Yoram, this sounds like exactly the situation the Urd is designed for. And, the good news is that it has everything you need. It should work perfectly with any USB input (Linux or other) and will not damage the signal in any way.
Do note that the Urd does a maximum 192kHz sample rate so can't do DSD, etc. but it sounds like that's not a significant factor for you.
@@PassionforSound Great news. Thanks and best wishes y
Nice review! I've been toying with URD vs other CD transport option so this is helpful. Its a bit strange that the URD has USB-C out only but the logical DAC to pair it with, the Yggdrasil, is USB-B only.
Yes. It is possible to buy USB-C to USB-B cables, but they're less common and non audiophile for those who care about the design of the cables.
One of your best videos Lachlan!
Great review on a product that deserves it.
You answered most of the questions I had, especially does it improve the signal running through it.
One question I still have is does it buffer in cd play back?
Sacd players aren’t typically the best cd transports.
I’ve used a PS3, an Oppo 103, and my better cd player - they function, but don’t impress :)
Even a good cd player is more optimized for it’s own built in dac than to be a great transport source.
I’ll hope to hear an Urd maybe at a CanJam 🙏
Glad you liked the video, Scott. I don't know if it buffers the playback. There is a bit of delay when switching between tracks so perhaps that's some buffering being done, but you'd need to confirm with Schiit. 🙂
DH Labs makes a very fine usb c to b cable. I use that from my MacBook to my Yggy LIM.
Thanks for the tip!
Another awesome review. I am wondering which parts did you get to optimise your pc :$
I should have mentioned that in the video - sorry. I'm running JCat LAN and USB cards. I've got a review here on the channel if you search for "JCat Passion for Sound"
Thanks for this great review and confirming this products niche benefits. There definitely appears to be a lot of interest still in vinyl and CD formats. In regards to CD transports there have been a couple of new ones released lately. e.g. the Audiolab 9000 and Cambridge evo. To me personally it’s great knowing I have cd’s and a great player when the internet is down 😅
It's kind of fun just choosing an album and having that physical interaction with it, I think
Thanks for the review. Does this have gapless playback? If I understood correctly, sonically there was not a difference between the cd/dvd player and Urd, wouldn’t you benefit from having the dvd player with the combo then? There are some that still collect/watch DVD’s? Are you getting a $600 increased sound difference in the Urd compared to let’s say the Sony UBP 700/800 XM2 sacd/cd/dvd player?
What gapless playback? This plays CDs, it just plays what is on the disk, gaps or no gaps, without introducing new ones, just as all CD players have been doing since the 80s..
@@razisn believe or not some do not support gapless playback.
@@razisnNot all CD players support gapless playback. This can be a deal breaker for those who listen to live recordings where tracks can start and stop in the middle of a performance.
@@spamcan9208 I have never had one of those, and I have had a few players in my life. Maybe the problem exists with some of the players that load the tracks in their buffers before 'streaming' them out?
@@razisn Yeah, it's probably something like that. I know that Emotiva also came out with a CD player in the past few months and people were complaining it couldn't do gapless playback. I thought they explained the technical reason why but I don't remember.
Is there a difference between the digital signal going in from the one that is coming out? If there isnt, then is it really a DDC or just a digital hub?
There's no difference in terms of the content of the signal, but it provides galvanic isolation and will output an incoming USB connection as USB, coax SPDIF or AES. It's a true DDC even if somewhat limited on outputs.
Thanks for the review. I love CDs, that's critical listening session with CD album from track 1 to last. I do RIP CDs into lossless digital format too for leisure listening and easy sorting , searching, customize playlists. One downside on CD transport is the remote without numerical key is a pain to keep forward / reverese the track searching...
Glad you liked the review! I agree that a numerical pad would have been helpful on the remote.
I've got two more CD transport reviews coming soon so stay tuned 🙂
Which usb upgrade card do you use in your computer?
Darko did a fascinating video recently about dynamic range on original cds vs remasters vs vinyl va streamed and it may be that in a not insignificant number of cases dynamic range on cds from the 70s and 80s might be better than streamed files.
I purchased a used Jay's Audio cd2 mk2 and upgraded it to mk 3 status with the upgrade kit. Fed to my Terminator Plus dac it pfoduces excellent results. Whether it beats streamed files to the same dac from my Aries G2 is album dependent but it has neen fun retrieving my old cds from their giant box and playing them again.
If I had to cboose I would choose streaming for the variety but its great to have both. And vinyl, cassette and reel to reel. Its all good except cassette. Thats just for nostalgia.
I still love my Sony cassette deck with Dolby S. I even had it refurbished last year. Yeah, maybe just for nostalgia, but the tapes I recorded on it via Metal Type IV cassettes were nearly indistinguishable from the CDs. I'll play those tapes as long as I can - just for fun.
It is maddening as John Darko showed how most of these "remasters" or "remixed" CDs and albums of today are actually sonically inferior to the originals. Consumers beware for sure. It makes me mad they take what ought to be a good opportunity to create something, but they mess it up. Thank God for Steven Wilson and his engineering sense and sensibilities. More studios should get a clue.
That makes total sense about the different masters and even if there's some dynamic range alteration being done by the streaming services. It would be nice if people would stop messing with the music to it's detriment.
I've tried 3 different USB B > C cables to connect my Yggy to Urd... no luck. Any suggestions?
Oh no! My suggestion is AES because the Urd can be tricky, but AES works perfectly and sounds great into the Yggy.
As A2a dont have any timeline for having in stock, do i as a buyer need to import directly from schiit?
Probably. It'll work out cheaper for you too - even with the import duties.
good review as always! are you going to review their new head amp? mjolnir3?
I have flagged it with Schiit, but no word as yet...
My main concern is the USB output to my Dac, is that the Better of the 3, since I have a choice of all 3 inputs on my DAC? What is your opinion?
I'm a fan of AES out of the three, but the USB output from the Urd is very good. If you can test a couple for yourself, you might also find that your DAC sounds better with a particular input (although the differences might be tiny)
I have the Audiolab 6000CDT and love it! Any company making integrated amplifiers with built-in dacs like Denon, Yamaha and Marantz should be thinking logically and respectfully of the customers they are shoehorning into buying their $1800+ integrated amps with dacs and offering a transport. Having to purchase the Audiolab out of default doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy about those companies, and most likely will not consider them for my next amplification purchase. And Schiit should have went the way of making a nicely made transport to compete with the Audiolab 6000CDT and 7000CDT in price and performance.
Sadly, the demand for CD transports is getting smaller and smaller so this will become more of an issue in the future I think.
Unfortunately, I think you are right!
I think this is the most professional audio product review I've seen. Fantastic.
Thanks so much! I'm so glad you liked my approach.
What is fantastic with this overprized product?
@@GeirRssaakif you read my comment carefully, you'll see that I'm not talking about the product, just the review
I regret throwing my CD cases with their inserts away to "save space."
I just started thinking about getting back into CDs, partly for nostalgic reasons and partly because it's nice to have a physical copy of your favorite music. But I'll have to stick with old blu ray players to use as my CD transport for the foreseeable future lol
Yeah, I'd love to have mine in shelves somewhere on display these days, but I only kept the booklets and discs. The folders take up WAY less space, but they're less convenient for browsing.
Interesting video, and a great intro track! Reminded me a lot of early Sabbath. Re-writable CDs have lower reflectivity than the red book standard requires so the Urd may not work with them.
Glad you liked the video and the track.
When will you test snakeoil and power cleaners?
Was the mastering identical between the stream and the CDs?
I tried multiple tracks because it's impossible to know, but I heard fairly consistent improvements from the CD. I also tried to choose CDs with only one version available on the streaming platforms (i.e. not Fleetwood Mac Rumors where there are 4-5 versions).
Can you elaborate on the difference of your PC's "high quality USB" versus a "generic USB socket"? Because that seemed to be the deciding factor whether the Urd was helpful as a DDC or not. Thanks
I think he was referring to upgrade pci cards containing usb connections specifically for music listening, vs the one's built into computers by default that allow some power noise through.
@akhanicacao It would be nice for him to disclose exactly what he is using.
Sorry. My PC uses the JCat USB and LAN cards: th-cam.com/video/HybaRn4sOx4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZwYyKMTIRp6NZWIT
I was testing this last night in a similar situation using Apple Music on my iPad and feeding it into my DAC (Denafrips Ares II) and then comparing it from my CD transport (Cambridge Audio CXC) and the difference if I were to summit up it seems that the Apple Music definitely seems to have an EQ and a boosted gain. And this seems to be a substitute or an attempt to mask the loss of clarity. The signal coming from the transport was not as robust and so it required more gain on my preamp, but the sound was undoubtedly cleaner, more refined and actually I feel like the bass was more extended, even though, when playing from my iPad boosted gain an EQ gives the illusion that there’s more base.
Thanks for sharing your experience! The increased gain could also be some kind of volume leveling for comfort or just different output settings so it's not necessarily trickery for clarity (it's unlikely Apple are even thinking about the niche of people who might compare fine details like we're discussing). What matters though is that you've been able to test this for yourself. Thanks again for sharing.
Interesting unit. Do the CD's sound better than streaming music from like say from Apple Music?
If the format is lossless redbook, I would say that it all depends on the quality of the source - streamer versus transport.
I compared CDs vs Qobuz and a high quality streaming setup so I'd expect the improvements to be pretty consistent across all streaming platforms.
Which USB card is your PC using?
I'm using the Jcat - their lower level card.
@@PassionforSound I run a 15ft black dragon USB cable from moon audio from a Bifrost 2 into my PC. Hoping my iFi iGalvanic, iPurifier, and iSilencer can more or less match the noise reduction of a usb card like the JCAT. Was thinking of adding one to my PC but it might not be worth it and I would likely no longer be able to keep my vertical GPU mount aesthetic.
I couldn't say if they're on the same level, but hopefully they are as the concept is similar.
I’d like to know if you put a usb signal wired from a phone/ iPad using a lossless 24bit/ 192 kHz file, how that would compare to the same track on the cd in 16/44…
It might depend on whether the file is local on the phone or streamed, but it's an interesting question.
Very intelligent question! I have tried most cd-sacd players and compered them with lossless-high resolution streaming! Even young people with perfect hearing can usually not hear the difference! We have made a lot of blindtests!
I do this often, iPad in the basement, Mac mini or cd transport in the living room. The quality is definitely less in the iPad because every time it has to answer a call or text or check email the sound is affected. The cd transport is marginally better than the Mac because the timing is better, less jitter I guess.
Anyone know the amp stands in the background to the left?
I've got an M-Scaler and TT2 with a pair of Burson Timekeeper 3X GTs, a Burson Soloist 3X GT and then, usually a Linear Tube Audio MZ3 in that stack. At the time of this recording, the top device was probably the SMSL AL200.
A dedicated DDC with at least two USB in and out, and a double of outputs including AES, I2S, Coax, Toslink woudl be great to have. Basicly all the DDC that I checked, dont have USB out. And in best case scenario only one double output. Gaia from Denafrips has a double AES, Singxer SU-6 has and double I2S. When You have multiple sources and dac's it would be nice to hook it within one system. Hope that Schiit will do something like this :)
I agree that USB out would be very handy on more DDCs.
Maybe silly to ask here in 2023, but I've been burned before, does the Urd play CDs gaplessly? For the types of music I listen to, that is important.
I didn't specifically test this, but didn't notice any pauses between tracks. I'm not a big classical listener (or other genres where there's a need for gapless) so worth asking around.
What usb DAC are people using with this?
I'm guessing many will be using Schiit DACs. I've had a few challenges with it when connecting to other DACs though so it's worth checking compatibility. I hadn't discovered this at the time of recording.
i set my sight on Shanling ET3 transport, it has coax, AES, optical, usb AND I2S....
I still got my near 30 year old Denon DCD S10
Sounds like a well featured device!
Was the streaming losless?
Yes - all lossless via Qobuz.
Passion for Sound, Thanks Much !.......
Currently “ripping” my 370 compact disc collection onto my beautiful Fujitsu laptop computers. 💻
So it’s a audiophile quality hub with a cd transport?
Basically, yes.
I’m not sure I understand if the URD is acting like a DDC for upstream USB sources. At first he sounded like it was not reclocking, but just providing isolation to reduce noise. But at the end he talks about the benefits of DDC. Is the URD acting like a DDC or is he just saying that the URD could serve as a channeling device for multiple USB sources feeding a single downstream DDC -> DAC? Or am I just still so clueless about digital audio that my question doesn’t make sense?
A DDC is any device that takes one input type (e.g. USB) and converts to another (e.g. SPDIF). DDCs do not necessarily reclock the signal, although I imagine most would contain clocks to ensure accurate conversion of the signals. So the Urd is a true DDC, but it's not a reclocker as such.
Wished they come out with a CD transport without the DDC or DDC without the CD transport and sell each at half the price. Also they should have the Schiit Modius size.
I guess I'd go for a transport if they were made so that they came with a replaceable laser or drawer mechanism. I really feel that streaming is the way forward, even as I still listen to cds primarily.
Good video but no mention from you or Shiit on what Clock is used and how accurate and low on jitter,when CD Transports were prevalent this seemed to be the major difference which influenced ultimate sound quality.
I didn't open the device to explore the circuit so I can't help on that one. In the end, if it sounds good (which it does) then whatever is being used is also being optimised to sound it's best and that's what matters.
The next review could be a comparison between CD Ts, in which case I vote for Urd vs Audiolab's 6000CDT. 🙂
It will all depend on what I can get my hands on, but it would be interesting to run some CDT comparisons.
@@PassionforSound Sure, and may I add the Pro-Ject CD transport models.
It will all depend on what I can get access to, but yes - I'd be glad to try them.
@@PassionforSound Of course, I just mentioned two manufacturers that produce very competitive cost-performance CDTs and are well known in Australia.
Is it gapless?
I believe so, but didn't specifically test this - sorry.
Classic gear in good cond. -- like Philips multi-bit CDPs -- are legendary and REMAIN sonically competitive. It's a bit strange that PfS, with all that $$ gear in the background, does not have any CD player to compare. They are very common and even a friend can lend you one for comparison. Or is influencery nature of the biz not set up for such common sense? Yes, influencer economics are tough. The influencer has to push new promotional products. But so many influencers pushing are the same boring gear.
I spent quite a while searching eBay for a suitable CD transport to compare, but had no luck within the available timeframe I had (I couldn't wait for a unit to ship from the US or Europe).
As for influencers "pushing" new products, have a think about it from another perspective. People don't want to watch videos about discontinued products that aren't readily available. Why would any reviewer put in the hours of work required (probably a total of 2+ days' work per video) for a product review that only a few hundred people will be interested in?
You are right! Most producers of transports and DACs are just copying the old,brilliant patents from Philips, Sony and teac! New products are just overprized snakeoil!
I still buy the occasional cd 💿..now that I do more streaming…but I like having a physical copy .btw, I’m still rocking a Denon 3520 cd player ..can’t beat 30 plus years quality Japanese players 😎
Take care ☕️
Geir Røssaak from Norway, you are an intelligent person! !
@@GeirRssaakthanks 🤷🏻♂️
Did Mike Hunt come up with the name for this product?
Lol. Probably. It was a collaboration with Wayne King.
Lol
Brilliant!
Really cool looking product. The problem is, in reality I don’t see the advantages over just ripping CDs to your computer as FLAC or ALAC. That could be better than streaming and be a cheap way to get super high quality music. But playing an actual cd in the moment seems more about the cool factor like having a turn table where it’s not really giving you any audiophile advantages to just having: great music files, dac, and amp (and I would argue usb cable setup).
But all the power to the people that want the physical cool factor. I see the appeal.
I do tend to agree. Convenience wins for me because my CDs are all in folders that are clumsy to browse through. Ripped copies of these discs are much easier and of identical quality (based on system setup as you say).
There is something enjoyable about the physical interaction with the discs and the conscious choice to play a specific album, but it requires a different storage solution for the CDs I think. 🙂
I wanted to come back to this comment to tell anyone that reads this that I completely disagree with my original post. I don’t have the URD but I am using a UHD blu ray player playing CDs with optical out into my external dac. Anyways with headphone setup, I’m absolutely loving this. Now maybe playing a cd does have a physical enjoyment factor. I also think it helps in modern world to have a cd or vinyl to play because you’re more likely to listen to an album at once. Or at least I know I am. Anyways the sound is great and loving it! CDs are still awesome.
Thanks for coming back and sharing this. I've been using CDs a little more lately to test anothet CD transport and there's something fun about the physical interaction with the medium. I still think convenience wins overall, but will enjoy the occasional CD listening session for sure. Kind of makes me want to find the space for a turntable!
@@PassionforSound yea I totally get your point about convenience. Whatever works for you. It’s a good reminder to me to enjoy my music and not just think about gear all the time. I also appreciate you doing recent videos talking about music and not just gear. I think that should be a good reminder for people their love of being an audiophile probably started with loving finding new music. Then we all got down the gear tunnel. And I also recently got a turntable too. I love it. I think collecting vinyls and having the album art is awesome. Definitely the coolest physical thing to collect imo. And playing records can be magical. I still love headphone listening from CDs too though. Both great for different things. Hard to not love turntable connected to speaker setup. There’s gotta be a reason so many people got into it recently, right? Ha. The thing is, CDs are way cheaper generally speaking. But records are cooler to collect.
Unfortunately Ive already bought DDC from Yellowtec AES/USB to AES in my Genelec. No made in china components in my audio! But ideał CD transport for me is Rega Apollo or maybe Cyrus - i like both for design :)
Not toroidal transformers, according to the pix on Schiit's website. Also -- how can an audio pundit not own a single CD player?
Oops. That's an overgeneralisation on my part. I knew it had linear supplies and stretched that to mean toroidal transformers too.
If a normal cd or DVD player with digital output connected to a dac does the same job soundwise, why brother paying more??
Durability is a big one. CD/DVD players are generally cheap pieces of garbage. Computer optical drives can be added to that pile of refuse. You're deep into diminishing returns with the Urd, but what remains out there on the market is worse than in the past and fixing same is an exercise in futility. This thing comes into its own if you have an extensive library of CDs. Obviously, it's not for everyone.
@davefinfrock3324 thanks for your Outlook. Cheap audio man opened my eyes as actually I found a really good Pionneer cd player with digital out for $30. Coming from Pionneer, build is good and frankly if it fails in a year or 2 from now, I could care less for $30...I will figure out what to do then... I was a guy who would copy and RIP all his cd's and put them in a hard drive, but I think it was a mistake. I can do it while keeping my cd collection. I had some great vinyls that I gave to my son before I moved overseas, but maybe I should have kept it... well that's another subject. Conclusion, keeping old music formats is not a bad thing. Nostalgy is a human emotion. And with a good alternative, hifi can be assured.
Added electrical noise for one.
I would have loved to test this for myself, but I don't believe a generic DVD / Blu-Ray player will produce the same sound quality
You are a healthy person! I have tried everything from cd-sacd to all sorts of lossless-high resolution streaming! My experience, by doing blindtests, is that most people can not hear the difference! I think that transports and DACs are the new hifi snakeoil!
Would have been perfect if it also supported SACD.
Unfortunately, no Schiit products support above 192kHz ☹️
does it just spit out digital one and zeros what the difference with cheap sony cd player with digital output. Why is so expensive?
Did they even say why it's so expensive or they just spit out some price and that's it?
Answered this on your other comment 🙂
As a note I believe the usb output of the URD is ONLY for schitt's proprietary usb unison so will only work with a schitt dac...
That wasn't the original intent of the Urd. Hopefully there wasn't a later update to the marketing due to issues because it was a little bit picky sometimes.
Not sure what the original intent was but the spec says "Unison USB™ output" which as far as I can make out is proprietary to Schitt... So I don't know... 🤔
Ah, that's just Schiit highlighting that it's their own USB circuitry in the output because it has some benefits like galvanic isolation, etc. it SHOULD work with any downstream DAC, although I know it has tended to be a little picky.
I get the Shiit Urd name now, it cobination of Shit + Turd (turd mean shit in english). Brilliant
😁
They missed a trick .. should have called it the TÜrd. No disrespect, but with a name like Schitt .. Darko would approve.
If you say it as Schitt Urd you kind of get the same result 😉
Niche product is right. I don't see any need for this product at all. But many may dig this URD. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Rather would get my external streamer and Roon process done, and save some bucks too.
Yes. I don't see this becoming as well known as their DACs and amps.
As sound quality is a top priority for my music sources I do use a CD player with its own dedicated intelligent power supply first and foremost for deep, immersive and critical listening. This is definitely terrific territory in the audio world, Lachlan. Well done. The CD is far from dead.
Great point about the dedicated power supply. That's more impactful than we sometimes think. Glad you liked the video!
@@PassionforSound I loved the video. :)
On that note. The U.K manufacturer, Cyrus Audio is incredible for CD players/transports. Worth checking out if you care to venture a bit past the Urd concept. 😊
I'm definitely keen to try more if I can get my hands on them 🙂
@@PassionforSound that is so promising because I find that physical media/cd players are being a bit under looked at these days. It is terrific quality, but I know streaming has its merits with the convenience and affordability side of things, so it is very understandable that it is really starting to take over. Anyhow, I hope you dive in more. You won’t be sorry. 😌
no, if the powersupply in your area is that bad,you should move abroad ! However you could try an even more expensive power cleaner!!!???
the better your DAC the bigger difference between streamed and physical media i have found.
That could make sense
It probably sounds better then a lot of enthusiasts music streaming set ups however ultra convenient’s seems to rule over the pursuit of better sound quality,…
I'm not sure what you mean?
@@PassionforSound Sure , there have been a few occasions I’ve had a cd player in my system , borrowed, most recent Projects RS2T transport with the newly developed Philips drive , the sound quality compared to a excellent streaming set up the RS2T listening to same music theres more meat on the bones , a wider and taller sense of sound staging and particular the human pitch with well recordings are presented a little more realistic sounding. Magico A5 speakers , Boulder 866 integrate ,AfterDark Evo server ,Mola Tambaqui dac . I do have a decent fibre optics fed right into my server however the noise everyone have to deal with streaming IS the bottleneck though there are solutions $$
Comparison there are noticeable differences between a very good cd transport and streaming services and what you get coming into your home .
Streaming the new and ultra convenient way of listening to music with a touch of a finger has won over the majority even though the sound quality isn’t on par with local ripped files and a darn good cd transport .
Why would streaming be worse than a local file rip? 🤨 have you tried comparing the local rip to a local download from a streaming service? That is, a stored version, not one streaming in real time to a temp folder?
As per my comment above, the issue is that very often one is not comparing the same source material and it is very difficult to impossible to make sure one does..
@@razisn I've not seen your other comments, but he did mention making sure his masters were the same so he's assuming we're comparing apples to apples here
@@mat.b. Assuming is dangerous... Often there's no way to be certain as many remasterings are not marked as such in streaming services. Also different masters may be used for CD production and streaming files even from the same production / re-issue.
@@razisn at the same time, you're assuming he messed up and doesnt know how to pull up identical masters
Those on a discussion forum called Audiogon say streaming CAN sound better than that from a local CD, but only if you spend about $4K to $6K, upgrading everything from your modem, wi-fi router, or direct Ethernet connection to your streamer, using high quality cables, then using a DDC (if your streamer isn't "good" with the clocking) and also upgrading every single power supply for all these devices to high quality linear ones. For me, I love streaming "as is" in my total $12K system but I also play local CDs and rips just fine and I'm happy. I simply don't think my 65-year-old ears can really split the hairs so finely anymore. I just love hearing the music.
Schit tUrd , cmon man!?
I love that a bunch of people on headfi are freaking out over a black on black urd with red oled
Ripped copies should be 100% identical to the original
that's too little too late for me but thanks for the review
You're welcome. Why too little too late?
if they had released it a couple of years ago, would have got one, but since the shanling et3 is available, kicks the Urd into touch for me. @@PassionforSound
I'm still on the hunt for a CD player or transport that's more affordable than this and easy to use.
The new Shanling looks interesting and then there's a Cambridge Audio unit that a few people have mentioned too
Shiit turd? They have a sense of humour!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
They sure do 😁
Yes,they are making a lot of uninteresting shit!
"Did he fire six shoots or only five?" lol.
What am I missing on this one?
Not all DDCs are equal. Compare PC or streamer with Urd and a dedicated DDC like Denafrips Gaia, there will be a difference.
what about the Iris DDC?
I use the Singxer SU-6 DDC (directly comparable with the Gaia - I've tried both side-by-side) and the Urd is on par with them both. Obviously, Urd is far more limited in its outputs, but the galvanic isolation of the Unison sockets is doing an excellent job.
I think, emphasis on think, the Shanling ET3 is going to prove better, and $500 cheaper.
I'll have to look into it. It's certainly packed with features, but two key differences stand out: firstly, it'll be using a switch mode power supply which may/may not result in reduced sound quality. Secondly, it won't operate as a DDC, but has some other tricks like acting as a NAS with external HDDs. Cool product.
I would never pay $1300 for a transport or any CD player for that matter. Even if it also made ice cream.
Is this the schiit urd or the schiit turd... watching to find out.
Depends how fast you say it 😉
Does the usb output of the URD work with the usb input of the Geshelli labs j2s?
I haven't tested that one and my Urd is with a channel Patreon member now...
Get the emotiva cd player. Not the best looking but great player for half the price.
Does the Emotiva also act as a digital hub and DDC?
“Rise of the Dead” soundtrack? Ah, got it. 😁 But no programming of tracks plus pricey? No, thanks.
If the Streamed version sounds different it's probably compressed
They should have included a DAC...
That would have significantly increased the size and price. The chances of it being as good as a Bifrost 2/64 AND not costing as much or more AND not making it a very confusing device in terms of inputs and outputs are very slim, I'd say.
We are lucky that Schiit exists - it provides quite a few products that give us some very interesting options - filling the nice for many.
- I do think though, that the exterior design of their products is shooting itself in the foot here - it doesn't look like a pleasure to operate, swapping hundreds of CDs - which a transport at this price range should - display and buttons are too small, and the loading mechanism should not give the impression of an afterthought.
That "loading mechanism" is a much better piece than the typical plastic stuff found in most players or transports. Jason talks about that on Head-fi.
@@roadcykler62 it does indeed look like a well designed piece, and I am not making a comparison with plastic budget stuff. I am to equally priced stuff - where the mechanism is in the middle for starters.
I think it's great to interact with. I've had nothing but enjoyment from loading and playing CDs
@@PassionforSound fair enough - good to know. Did you use it in a desktop-headphone setup? For a speaker setup I think requirements for optimal use (especially the size of the display) are different. I think that it is a great product, and I love seeing new Redbook CD transports being developed. Only I stick to my initial point that I think that this machine could have been better outside the limits of a Schiit casing. I have a Schiit Lokius, and that is a great product, but also case design reduces the ease of use.
@@alphaniner3770There’s nothing that compares for the price.
I am sorry, as a professional reviewer you should know that when you compare a CD (physical or ripped) to a streamed file, it is very difficult to impossible to know if you are comparing the same masters / products. There is a VERY HIGH probability you are not. That is the primary reason people find differences between streaming and CD based music. That is an issue even before other things (like processing/ normalisation / down or upsampling etc) that might be performed by the streaming service are considered. Buying and downloading a newly introduced production / master file and comparing it to the streamed file of the same bit depth and sampling rate gives you a better chance of comparing apples to apples but it still is not foolproof. To try to get to some reasonable consensus conclusion many tests using different source material is required. Just one listening test such as the one you did will not allow one to come to any reasonable conclusions. So your result there is hardly even anecdotal.
But many other reviewers have done exactly as you say and they still conclude that local CDs or ripped files sound better than streaming - at least until you spend around $4K or so to upgrade everything in your digital path from the Internet to your amp and the power supplies of those devices. For instance, a few years ago, as a test, one artist compared bit for bit what Deezer was delivering to his own Redbook CD and found them to be identical. But streaming introduces jitter far more than a quality transport. Taming that jitter is what can make the difference in perception of sound quality. But yes, right now when we are streaming, most of us have no way of knowing what master we are hearing nor what exactly has been done to the files by both, the studio and by the streaming service. When I'm using Tidal Hi-Fi (CD quality) are they direct rips of the commercial Redbook CD or are they resampled from Tidal's lossy MQA versions? It would be nice if the streaming services were more transparent with what they are actually providing us.
As I discussed in the video, I checked this across multiple albums to reduce the chances of accidentally comparing different masters. The results were consistently in favour of the CD playback.
i totally disagree! High resolution files by wire or wireless can match a cd or a sacd!
They possibly can, but it requires a significant level of optimisation of the source chain. Even a fairly well audio-optimised PC streaming from Qobuz didn't match what the Urd could produce just by dropping a disc in.
Should have been a top loader.
Yeah, that helps stacking on the desktop..
Give me a one box player anyday. Complexity is for nerd heads and audiophiles.
Much cheaper to use your DVD player as a transport
Cheaper, yes. As good? No.
@@PassionforSound a transport shouldn't make any difference to the sound.
And yet they do, based on my limited experience. My cheap Sony Blu-ray player was no better (possibly worse) than streamed audio which is why I sold it. The Urd was clearly better.
Things like power supplies can have a big influence on the performance of audio devices so it might come down to that. I'm also not sure if the cheaper reading mechanisms might introduce jitter or other forms of noise.
You need to look into high def stream files because they definitely beat a cd
I'm guessing that's going to come down to the master they're taken from and the streaming setup you have to receive them. There are some hi-res streaming tracks that are clearly inferior to the lower res options due to the masters so the CD would clearly be better there. It's going to be very album dependent I think.
CDs sound better then any streaming music. Fact. CDs are not old fashioned.
great idea to produce new CD transport....Anyway I am not amazed by the design of this one.
No,this transport is only a copy of old patents by Philips,Sony and teac!
@@GeirRssaak I was not speaking about technology inside but just the fact to produce new gears…like pro-ject did for vinyl in the 90s
Dear Vince! I misunderstood!
Why do you not promote a decent blueray? They have a better laser and DAC!
I'll review whatever I can get my hands on, but Blu-Ray players aren't optimised for audio playback and can't do any of the digital-to-digital conversion that's going on in the Urd.
Yoy are totally wrong! The laser and the inboard DAC is superior to even expensive transports and DACs!you really should trust your ears and stop promoting snakeoil!
!
does it handle sacd?
No. CD only
I can't image a better way to set $1200 on fire. Seems like money that could be better spent on literally any other component in your system.
Sounds like you don't want to listen to CDs - that's fine.
@PassionforSound I love CDs. I have an Oppo DVD player that is fantastic that I bought for $7 at Goodwill and also plays SACDs, DVD-A, and HDCDs. It is a great format that you can enjoy without being a complete fool with your money.
You are so right!
Just give us a transport and make it cheaper….