Agree with asmon, we don't really treat celebrities like people, there's no way we'll treat streamers as people, they are basically internet celebrities anyway.
@DeathNikki This is almost exactly how most streamers view their audience though. Faceless cash registers. Most of these streamers have thousands of viewers, whom they know almost none of them, and interact with them minimally.
I thought quite a bit on this but yeah, as soon as you are a celebrity, you lose the right to complain about this(the sexualizing of their person) imo. Even if there is no deepfake, as another female streamer said there is some dude jerking off to female celebs' necks. Deepfake should probably be classed as parody, a convincing parody but parody none the less. But it becomes a problem when deepfakes show people doing crimes, so I think before it gets to that, it should be banned. Not even allowed to be consented.
For real. The people who can defend these actions are people who are ok with - and have probably already considered/committed - r@pe. Plain and simple. That shouldn't shock anyone, considering how often that crime is committed
What makes streamers different than Actors in terms of hate and mental health is that your fans have 100% access to you and you interact with them on a daily basis throughout your work hours non stop. actors get critics and reviews and stuff but most time never interact with them.
@@JohnDoe-tj8rq yeahh it's gotta take it's toll tbh, everyone thinks its a dream job ( and its a pretty dope one dont get me wrong ) but its not all rainbows, look at nikocado for example, that whole trainwreck is such a messy situation
In response to not "sexualizing people without their consent", this treads into thoughtcrime. I should be able to imagine whoever I want however I want--we all know no one is going around asking women "do you mind if I fantasize about you". This "sexualizing people without their consent" seems to only be a problem when someone's imagination can be easily made manifest and shared with others. If these women want anyone to actually give a fuck, they should approach it from the very legitimate "profiting on my likeness without permission" angle, which I would assume is backed by the right to legal ownership of one's personal likeness, rather than some half-baked appeal to morals which would, on the face of it, advocate for censoring one's own thoughts from oneself.
Ya but if he isn't selling the videos nothing you can do. Like I could make a t shirt of your face but if I'm not selling them you can't really do anything.
@Shylogik if they pay for the service to make it, they aren't buying the art, just funding the site. So, even in this instance, it was buying and selling it would be one quick tweak to make it fully legal
I think people don't even think about how far deep fakes can be taken and how much damage they can cause. Imagine deep faking someone saying or doing something that is incredibly damaging or even incriminating and what that could cause.
I feel like it would cause the opposite of what people think. I feel like rather than convict innocent people they'd haft to accept that video evidence is no longer viable since you can fake it
@Donut of Doom you do realize you have to prove that in court right.... as soon as they use ai footage as "proof" they get locked up for a false rape accusation....
The fact that people were bugging Ludwig to make a comment on the whole situation when his girlfriend was one of the people involved is just sad. Sure he could have made a full on rage video when he was in a bad head space but he prioritised comforting the person close to him when they needed it which was the most important thing to him at the time. Obviously I don't know QT personally but from what I've seen of her I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him to go in guns blazing either. His entire response was measured and focused on the important thing instead of making it all about his personal feelings.
I hate how streamers and the twitch community act suprised about this stuff, realistically their all doing weird shit that most people would wince at. Everytime someone gets exposed everyone just points a finger and makes content out of it.
@40:33 is kinda where I broke out of Asmon's influence lmfao. I respect the dude as a gamer, but what a terrible take on piracy. You absolutely can take a moral standpoint on piracy. Netflix movies and shows for example. Netflix's subscription has more than doubled in price since 2013, and the reality privileged people like Asmon seem to have forgotten in their come-ups is that most people are poor, and can hardly afford to live. To the majority of people viewing a stream, for example, being hit with 3 back-to-back-to-back one minute ads is enough to lose their attention, but they can't afford a sub, and gifts aren't guaranteed.
I agree with like 99% of what is being said here, but there is just this one part of the debate that I really dislike. And its the whole mentality behind how men can't be sexualized. Like Ludwigs take about "If a mans balls get leaked its cool, while if a womens breasts gets leaked a bunch of *men* jack off" Like, excuse me? Do women not jack off, have gay people left the planet? Sure balls are not the most attractive part of the body, but either way, someone is going to. Didn't Ludwig have his balls leaked and a bunch of people sexualized it? If a part of a persons body gets leaked out there, or deepfaked against their consent its messed up. It doesn't matter what gender, and to me it doesn't matter that it happens mostly to women, the key thing is that it happens. And I think excluding men from the topic as a whole is really not ok. This whole "Its mostly men that are the perpetrator" and "It's mostly woman that are the victims" mentality needs to end. In the end of it, its humans being hurt by humans. The gender does not matter, and making it matter does 3 things: 1; As Asmon says it dehumanizes people. All of a sudden you're no longer a person, you're a man, and a man is X, Y and Z which are all bad and you should feel bad for that ( using man in this example as its the one being used in the topic ) This is why you see people react with "Not all men" People are hurt when you say that its "mostly men" People are vulnerable, and that turns into defence, anger, sadness. And is that okay? 2; It excludes people from being a victims, all of a sudden you're not supposed to feel bad for having your body part leaked, because when men get their balls leaked its "cool" 3; It excludes people from being perpetrators, oh a woman would never jack off to someones leaked breasts, woman are too pure for that. ( Again, using woman as the example here because of the topic ) I write this because I personally feel the hurt that comes with a topic like this, the hurt that supposedly my gender is bad because, well its mostly men is it not? Instead of its always bad people. And that hurt turns into, anger, anger I try hard not to act on. But in the end it mostly just turns to dissociation. Not wanting to be part of the topic, caring neither for the people hurting or those hurt, because it just makes me feel like shit. So why bother? This is why I think it' so important to not specify a group of people as perpetrators, because there will always be someone i that group that gets pushed away, or even worse, pushed into becoming a perpetrator. The way we phrase things, matter. To wrap up, I want to say that I'm truly sorry to everyone who has gotten a picture of them leaked, photoshopped, deepfaked, you name it. Your pain, anger, sadness, frustration, dysmorphia is valid. This is not something you should have to worry about, and I'm sorry that you've had to go through that. I wish you nothing but the best, and hope you're able to feel safe, take care of yourself.
Comparing to photoshop is much more realistic than drawing. Photoshopping celebrities onto bodies has been happening for 30 years. Atrioc said that it wasn't any of the people he knew personally, so to him the streamers might as well be famous people he doesn't know. No one has ever cared about Anya Taylor Joy getting her face photoshopped onto naked pictures. Also, everyone is talking about "girls should be allowed to consent" and Atrioc in the same conversation, which frankly, are 2 completely different conversations. Anyone can touch themselves to just real pictures or videos of their friends, that doesn't require consent lol.
@@alocalstalker3231 It doesn't matter, he's right. All the arguments against deepfakes have been levied against photoshop and the world didn't outlaw photoshop, the reason this is a big deal is because people who aren't used to being targeted are now realizing how easy it is to be a target and are making a big stink about it. You pay for your fame with your anonymity
@alocalstalker3231 I'm not justifying deep faking anyone. I am however confused on what, other than paging 15 dollars for p, should Atrioc be CANCELED for. He's not the one profiting from it or making it.
I think what gets me is like, iv never heard any of these people talk about it before. Even though it's been a thing for almost a decade. But now I'm being told I gotta care about it, nahh. You only care cause it happen to you and your friends, they wouldn't care if it happen to me or my friends.
Yeah. Its like UBER Eats and stuff. U dont list on their websides but they act like u do and order at your restaurant still and del7ver it. All without your concent... Its nothing new...
I mean, you can't just slide the double standard aside here. If this were a girl who got caught looking at deepfakes of male streamers, would we be here talking about it at all? Or would it just be a "Oh hahah" moment as usual?
This is why I always listen to Asmon’s takes, I don’t always agree with him, but he doesn’t entertain those who only with to spark arguments. Rather, he asks how you would change or fix the issue, not bicker like children on twitter whilst pointing fingers at each other.
The really sad thing is that the same thing has been actually happening forever, the only difference now is that instead of unrealistic 3d models we now have the most real-looking ai-generated fakes ever, and it's only going to get easier to create them as technology advances... it is unstoppable as it has always been and it will only get worse, and it's scary to think about, but sadly I don't think there's any solution to this and the only thing we can do is (as I think for most of the toxic topics on the internet) try to reduce the future consumers by educating children at home and at school while trying to stimulate their empathy and make them understand how horrible it is, as unrealistic as that sounds.
The rhetoric around "Not all men... But always a man" is pretty unfair and what it does is that it further antagonizes men. Not doubt that it was 90-10 m/f but like as a man who doesnt engage in this kind of degeneracy I feel like I am being looped into it. All it does is that it makes people want to disagree with you or it makes them not want to engage with your debate at all.
@RivailleRavioli it's mostly men, but it's not most men. Most child murder is committed by women, but most women don't murder kids, so no one says all women are child murders. So I would say your sexism is showing.
@@FirstYokai Someone gave the harry styles situation. Deep fake that was shared and giddy about. How much Henry Cavill and other male actors are sexualised, especially when some of them are obviously not comfortable with it. The selling of it might be male-focused, but the fantasy and behaviour are not.
It’s that kind of rhetoric which is why the red pill content got so popular. Turns out, demonizing an entire gender and telling them they’re awful bc of their immutable characteristics is actually a bad thing to do
I think Ludwig makes a stupid argument when he says "Well, only men were involved in the creation of this site so somehow it's okay to generalize men's behaviour and call all of them pigs". Yeah, they were female streamers, of course the majority of people involved in making nudes of them would be men. If you got into some weird K-Pop community, you would probably find a majority of women sexualizing the male singers (and a majority of men sexualizing the female singers), yet it wouldn't be fair labelling them all as evil just because of a group of weirdos.
He's saying that maybe it isn't all men that do these things; but conveniently it has been men exclusively that do all these things. And, oddly enough, only men that have been defending Atrioc.
@@TwilightWolf285 Maybe men wouldn't jump to his side if the victims didn't react by lumping every men together with who should be accountable for it. It's was a knee-jerk reaction by the victims side, considering the situation, but it's inflamatory, as you can see. Now everyone that's vocal about not wanting to be called perverts because of criminals is considered to be defending Atrioc.
He never said that though? His specific quote was "Not all men, but somehow always men" That last part doesn't cancel out the first. He doesn't describe this as an issue with all men being pigs. Also I get that this is the internet so it can be hard to truly measure scope, but if you really think that the problem of women sexualizing men without their consent in "some weird K=pop communities" out there somewhere that neither of us have seen or can name without digging for it is equivalent to the problem of men sexualizing women, which we see examples of every single day both in real life as well as online discourse like this, then you're simply not critically thinking about the issue or just don't care about it. Like... he even says that this is a *disproportionately* male problem. I don't know why some people feel so defensive over that conversation. I'm a man too and none of these arguments have ever made me feel like I'm being judged as a pervert or a pig, because I'm aware that I don't engage in the behavior being talked about.
@@sere971 Because it's always women crying about this. Yeah, if you shine the light on one side of course that's all you're gonna see. Because guess what? Generally, guys don't care. It's not hard to understand. Ludwig is just being sexist.
The most insane things that I hear around this conversations isn't the actual AI but the implications of the consequences around it for the people who has their identity taken. That the creation of these videos, especially without their consent, can cause them to lose job opportunities, that people send them the videos asking the creators if it is them, or that they can be extorted with these videos by that people send it to their friends and families.
I'm not defending it but all I'm saying is that this has been happening to celebrities for years and now all of a sudden people want to talk about it as soon as it happens to streamers
this is just a shift in weirdness. think about it. how many girls who make onlyfans really enjoy the idea that guys buy their content to wack off to? girls only care that they are making money from it as they should. that's their end goal. but deep down those same women think its probably pathetic that guys pay for their shit. like get a gf dude, kinda logic. so this deep fake stuff is just a shift passed inceldom into something far less controlled and a lot more volatile. so it freaks those girls out as it should. it's not normal. if the Streisand effect really pushes this technology into the forefront of poxn entertainment, there might be some pushback at first but if there's a way for people to monetize it, you know, take advantage of this system that takes advantage of them to make a profit off it, then it'll be normalized as a new product of sad incel behavior; the bar lowered even further. look at code miko, she was one of the first to invest serious money into that V-tuber crap. it paid off is it was fairly new stuff that she got in early. the same thing could happen with this deepfake crap just in a more taboo way. i'm not for that shit at all. i'm just calling it like it is. based off of what has happened in the past. when people cannot kill the beast, it eventually turns into a lucrative form of entertainment, irrespective of how disgusting it is.
I sympathize, but QT's "this is what pain looks like" response certainly came across as a performative overreaction. It seems like a slap in the face to victims of actual sexual assault.
It's even more insane to me that people will make sexual content of people who aren't involved whatsoever in that world. And the worst part is that people will continue to excuse it, as if it's normal.
@@TwilightWolf285 I mean, the people who are doing the deep-fakes are "fullfilling a fantasy" There's no need to photoshop the face of a pronstar onto the body of another pronstar. that content already exists. Pokimane taking the n00dle, on the other hand, is not. I'm not defending it, just EXPLAINING why people would do what you stated in your first sentence. It does make logical sense, its just morally wrong.
Still cant believe what has happened. I never expected Big A to fall from grace like this. I think that everyone will get over the whole situation eventually. I hope he is in good spirits when he comes back. Much love to everyone.
dont get me wrong, its bad. but the way people are acting sounds more like he intentionally leaked an ex-gfs nudes for revenge or something, rather than what it was. im sure he'll be back if he wants to come back.
@@auscaliber1 the way people are acting? The fuck does other people's actions or opinions have to do with what his real intentions were? That's a very bold claim to be making and I have never even seen atrioc nor do I like him since this is the first I've actually seen of him so I'm not on his side or anything. That's just a really bad accusation to make. Thats MUCH worse than watching deep fake porn. To assume someone is THAT scummy because of having a certain website open is totally wrong.
tbh people can do it with or without AI all they need is a clip or screencapture and theyre good, there is nothing that can interrupt someones will to do it if they want to and just because someone knows that they did that doest make it worse. I know most people are better of not knowing that thats happening behind the scenes and when reality hits its hard but thats unfortunately life
@@SoverineSR it's not like you share your fantasies with the world when you fap tho, isn't that obviously the big difference and problem? of course everyone knows everyone sexualizes to some degree, the problem is in making it public and in explicit content format
"can't stop people for making it" is not a good reason not to make laws around it tbh, it'll definitely reduce it and make people think twice before engaging
@@donut_42 sure but this means at least there is at least one less service for it out there. Lots of people still pirate music but it would be way more if it was legal don't you think? Laws work
I don't think anyone is saying that laws shouldn't be made against it. We are just saying that content like that is inevitable, and even if it is reduced, it won't be stopped, which you kinda stated in your comment anyway.
I hate how people equate shit like rape or human trafficking to fake nudes. It's not even comparable. AIso, fake nudes are obviously fake and until the tech gets to the point where you legitimately can't tell if it's actually the person or not I don't care. It IS parody, and you won't convince me otherwise. I feel like everyone is trying to fucking gaslight me and each other on this "issue". It's not an issue, yet.
The argument about parody laws is really good. If it's being sold as deep fakes and not advertised as the real thing then how is it any different from fan art and so on? If there are any laws put in place for this it will be about false advertisement and fraud, not people's privacy or dignity on the internet. Maybe there is an argument to be made about people's faces becoming their intellectual property from now. Kind of like tattoos. A difficult thing to traverse through. Do we copyright voices too? Bodyshape? What about identical twins? Sucks, but what's the 34th rule of the internet?
The big problem is that people can put a disclaimer saying it isn't fake on the website that they sell it, but once it spreads into the internet, the disclaimer doesn't go along with it. So when it reaches someone's family and friends, it creates such a horrible situation and for what? Just so some dickhead can profit? At the end of the day, it is much easier to convince someone to believe a lie than it is to convince them to believe they were lied to. No matter how someone tries, they are not going to be able to tell everyone that those pictures/videos were deepfaked. Especially with the technology getting as good as it is getting. It is putting complete strangers into a horrible position for personal gain. It is sickeningly selfish. Personally, I find it to be indefensible from any kind of moral standpoint.
That's tough to say tbh, but i'm pretty sure that even if it's fan art the creators can stop what you doing it because they own the right too the character. Now how would this translate to actual people i have no idea.
@@freedomextremist7215 "This has been estabilished law forever" Law changes all the time buddy, especially since as the context of the world changes. How can you regulate a technology with a law that was created before that technology was even conceptualized? Laws aren't written in stone. Laws have always changed. Guidelines are updated. Regulations adapt.
@@naosou921 Legally, the culpability would then be on whoever was spreading the videos and claiming they were real, not the original creator. In a world (like the one we have now) where celebreties are being deepfaked all the time, it should be easy enough for someone to say "that's not real, it's deepfaked" and move on. Does anyone really believe Pokimane had a train ran on her by the men from blacked?
Its nuts how the conversation went from deep fakes to the argument of the universe and what is and what isn't lol. I feel bad for all the super High people watching this and freaking out.
Are deepfakes a problem when they try to pass off as real or just a problem in of itself? The technology and applications of the technology are fascinating and will no doubt change the entertainment industry.
It's a problem because you are gaining profit off of someones likeness without their consent. So... stealing. And the fact that it's done in the porn industry makes it 10x worse, and also takes from pornstars who, maybe at some point, will be out of work because people will just AI generate and deepfake all porn.
Imagine they make a deepfake of you saying things you don't agree with. Maybe you are a conservative and they make you say heinous things. Maybe you are a liberal and they make you say heinous things. They can deepfake voices and faces, eventually we won't be able to trust ANY video or recording we hear. Imagine your mom calls you on the phone but actually its a deepfake of your mom to scam you. The technology for live deep fakes (sort of like a filter) is getting better everyday. Soon having any picture of you on social media will be enough for someone to steal your entire identity online.
If you believe in private property, then yes. Deepfakes are an invasion of privacy, you're using someone's likeness or voice without their consent. However if you advocate for the abolishment of privacy, then deepfakes are fine, that's where the problem lies, with people who don't necessarily believe that you can have private ownership of things or yourself, but who still think that deepfakes are bad. Due to the nature of deepfakes being 100% an invasion of privacy, you can see where the contradictions can lie.
Most of the technologies are not the problem themselves. Deepfake is already widely used in cinema movies to swap stunt man with the actors. How to use it is the problem, e.g.using it for porn. Fake sexual material is not new. People made photoshopped celebrities nude 20 years ago. It can deal with the law, but it is really hard to execute.
I think the best way to handle a situation like this in regards to deepfakes, is to reduce presence of deepfake sites to the degree in wich a person would have to use a vpn, go through certain network tunneling, and generally do a bunch of stuff to gain access. You can not really eliminate this issue, but making it harder to have such ease of access to content like this to the point it is more of a hassle to get to is the next best thing.
The drawing comment is what I was thinking, but Asmon took it the wrong way. This is AI generated and is currently labeled as art, so it falls in the same category as drawings of people. Meaning it would be difficult to stop this legally.
His response about impersonation would make more sense if someone tried to pass these off as real or tried to use deepfakes to scam people. He himself has uploaded a video where he laughed at an AI copy of him that someone made. Granted, that wasn't adult content, but my point is that deepfakes aren't inherently illegal as long as nobody tries to pass them off as real or uses them to scam people.
"stop sexualizing ppl with out their consent" - Ok... so i will never be sexualy attracted to anyone without their consent... I get what his saying. "Dont create sexual *content* with out their consent"
It's actually funny now how ppl were freaking out after poki mentioned legislation, like she was trying to go after ppl who don't like her 1984 style. It's about porn guys, it was always about ppl making and using porn in illicit nefarious ways.
He only watched it, it's not like he created it. This is cancel culture overreaction. People acting like the women were assaulted just because of deep fake, wtf
Asmongold is a very intelligent person. Just wanted to throw this out there. Noticed it in many of his Videos. He always has pretty deeply, well thought out opinions on situations. His audience is a lot more mature than most as well. Even when he gives takes that on first view would seem outrageous or could be misunderstood they immediately get it, whether they agree or not.
The sad reality is that the cat is out of the bag. You can limit access by making it harder to get to it but you will never be able to stop it. You can't criminalize usage but you can go after creators within reason.
Is he upset because he did it, or because he got caught is the real question. Would Atrioc have had this sudden epiphany himself without outside intervention?...
To be honest, it's only going to get worse and more prevalent now. Might as well teach these streamers to deal with it in a healthy way because after pandora's box is open, there is no going back. Eventually deepfakes will get accurate voiceovers as well, which will make it indistinguishable from the original person. This is the price of fame in the modern age. You signed on the dotted line, the repercussions are not fair but neither is life.
Lmao ok but it’s illegal to sell it which is the big problem. Even if you’re stepping around the take you’re making by saying it’s not fair it’s still an incel take. Wether you know it or not.
@@greenburg2276 ok but try living in reality instead of fantasyland for a second. We don't live in a idealistic world. People lack morals. Know this instead of crying about it on the internet when those facts are proven to be true. The bigger incel take is white knighting on the topic like that is going to help anyone lmao
@@greenburg2276 calling him an incel is crazy bro I got some bad news for you called anywhere that isnt north america we really should teach them how to deal with this healthily cause it's not going away. Just being real, wack ass mfs for doing it tho
the lack of action is what will make it get worse. The normalization of the action will make it worse. If we just as a collective normalize people being deepfaked, it'll repell people from wanting to have any platform at all. The fact that this even happens and is almost strictly a problem that women face online is a huge problem in itself and the denial of that and choosing to remain ignorant about that is what will make it worse.
@@NaiveAgenda it’s illegal though in multiple states. Do you have this take with more dark pork? “It exists so deal with it.” Your ISP probably hates you with how many times they have to log your searches on Tor and report them to authorities.
13:26 Hell, probably most of the audience is but some aren't like this. I wish you a happy and great life asmon. You're not just a dancing monkey. I think you're an extremely authentic person and that deserves a lot of respect. Ofc people wish to be in the same position to be famous and earn a lot but I think it's possible to be jealous AND grateful for what the other person has at the same time. Like one wants what another has but this person is still happy about the other person having these things. I think you have a great attitude towards things, cause I think the ways you're thinking will keep you sane in this hateful world, so keep it up buddy c:
Well, this goes beyond a typical fantasy. You MUST admit its a step removed when you create a physical product that everyone can view out of the 'exact' likeness of an individual who didn't consent to it?
@@mrjtfang2 agreed, this whole situation has so many nuances to it lol On one hand yeah, you don't need consent to use your damn imagination. Anyone can fap to anyone, or think up scenarios. But a grey line has been crossed the moment you make something out of it, and a solid line has been jumped over when, as you said, a product that sells is made
@@mrjtfang2 It's not the 'exact' likeness, it's putting their face on someone else's body. Only the face even remotely resembles their actual likeness. And to the original post's point, people keep arguing about being sexualized without consent, and say stupid stuff like they don't present themselves sexually. No one needs your consent to sexualize you. Humans do it naturally all the time. And guess what, there isn't anything wrong with a guy wondering how a woman would look naked. It's normal, it's natural, and it's not deviant behavior. Even if they decided to draw what they imagined, or rendered it with a computer, it's not some moral outrage like people are pretending here. I'm sick of seeing certain people pretending guys having sexual desires is problematic. Women are not entitled to not being seen in a sexual way. No one is. Some people seem to think they are, this is a mistake. Humans are sexual creatures.
@@koolaidjerk Having a sexual fantasy about someone in the privacy of your own head is totally different. No one is saying that men having sexual desires, or fantasising about women is wrong, don't be ridiculous.
@@koolaidjerk Psychically manifesting those fantasies in drawings/renders/deep fakes is when it becomes problematic. Its alarming you cant see that tbh.
I generally agree with Asmon, however imo he discounts the deeper reason to why these things occur. Viewing porn is toxic to a person in a much deeper way than most of us give it credit for. It literally changes your brain chemistry. I know most of us can attest to the negative effects of porn use gradually throughout our lives. What starts off as watching 'normal' porn eventually does escalate to darker and more demeaning things. The normal stuff doesn't appeal as much anymore and we look for heavier material which can quickly get out of control. There is a reason why Ted Bundy attributed his killings to his porn use. In Atrioc's case, things got out of hand for him. Does that make him a bad person? I would argue no. But that definitely does not discount his actions and the fact that he let his porn use get to that point.
Shit argument. Everything causes changes to your brain chemistry. Besides, people are allowed to do shit which damages them - cigarettes, alcohol, watching twitch streamers, etc..
If the standard is not "sexualizing people without their consent", that's an impossible standard. I hate that phrase, we need to stop using it. It's logically deficient, and falls apart with the smallest amount of scrutiny. Say what you mean. "Stop touching women without their consent" "Stop making deepfakes of women without their consent." "Stop spreading women's paywalled content without their consent." See how easy that was? These statements actually mean something. "Sexualizing" is something you do in your own head, it's subjective, vague, and essentially meaningless.
It does matter to a small extent, if making a law is only a baby step in curving the problem then that's what should happen because there really is no other steps against it. Even if that law can only be upheld to a tiny extent because the internet is vast, identities are easily hidden, and is not dictated by a single country it can still be upheld to some extent...no matter how small. Talking about it may help in some extent but it also informs the people who may be interested in this to it's existence...in the end talking is only going to make it bigger so the only thing we can do about it is take actions against it, and the only actions against it are legal actions. As far as the guy talking about it being a parody, two things to that, the first is a point made by Asmongold, no using someone's likeness and identity, even only for comedic effect is not a parody, someone's likeness and identity is not a style of art or expression...this would be closer to defamation than a parody. It's not like you're taking their hairstyle and color and using their makeup style or whatever else on a different person, this is literally using their personal image and creating something then monetizing it. The second is that a parody is always conscious about itself being a parody, advertising a deepfake as anything other than a deepfake (such as a "leak") automatically destroys any defense of it being a parody.
"Laws won't do anything" is a super crusty take. Child porn laws exist for the sole purpose of attempting to prevent harm and for punishing individuals that consume the end product. Obviously they don't "solve" everything, but why would you not want to at least do SOMETHING?
In America at least, this kind of stuff falls under the first amendment. This isn't new, rags like Hustler Magazine have been doing things like this to celebrities for decades.
The take comparing this to rape is the most hyperbolic shit in the world. I can understand it makes you uncomfortable and violates your privacy. But comparing it to actual sexual assault is kinda insulting to all survivors.
With regards to laws, Asmon is right that countries having different laws on deepfakes can make it difficult to combat. However, we can look towards the global response towards human trafficking to see that if countries work together to have a unified system regarding the issue, it is possible. The only problem is that with everything going on, I doubt China and Russia are in a particular cooperative mood so that would be difficult. It is also possible to criminalize the consumption of deepfake porn, which the US could probably do without the help of other nations. That won't eliminate the problem but it would put a much greater risk of producing and consuming deepfake porn that might make it more prohibitive.
I mean yeah I agree but let's face it, you won't find any international collaboration against deepfake porn as with other more serious crimes like human trafficking. Compared to human trafficking, deepfaking porn is like getting a parking ticket on the crime scale. Deepfake porn certainly hurts people but the economic and social damage is negligible currently. 5 Years ago, stalking as a crime wasn't even something in the lawbooks of many eu countries. If you had a stalker, you were fucked, there was nothing you could do. Now finally things are changing a bit. But it's slow progress. Challenging crime means rules, these rules need to be enforced, ergo more manpower, means more expenditure, more taxes - and people hate taxes. Maybe google could blacklist that stuff but that would just move the issue to the darknet.
Global unified system? hmmm.. maybe... maybe not also... UN is barely agreeing on how people are treated with their human rights discussions for the past decade... Even WHO have controversies... so unless there is a significant reason for a global unity that aint gonna happen. People from one country human trafficking people from other countries... people from other countries supplying drugs on other countries and trafficking too... and people do the same even to thier own countrymen.... It's the depravity that exist on Humans so when a wall is setup they create tunnels, if you clog the tunnels they fly over, if you seal the dome they bribe the guards... its not as simple as cooperation but dealing with the depravity that exist on each human. So i can't even expect any dent of help any global response that will be done.
I think it makes it easier to think of it like this: 1. All vice should be removed by the state 2. Porn is a vice. THEREFORE. 3. the state should remove porn. Whether it is effective or not does not matter - the syllogism stands and thus the moral obligation. I wonder if this reasoning is appealing to you? To put it in moralistic terms to make the syllogism even easier to follow: 1. All evil should be removed by the state 2. Porn is evil THEREFORE 3. Porn should be removed by the state You could distinguish premise 1. - opposition that would cause more evil, I deny (that the state should remove in such a case) - opposition where more good occurs (less evil), I concede (that the state should remove in such a case)
This is something that can't be won . The more you pull the more there's going to be it's best to ignore it at the moment all there doing is advertising for something that existed long before the streamers fighting it .
While I think this is the case, I can't see how any media differentiates from this. Is lud allowed to make this video without the dudes consent? Is he allowed to reference pokimane without consent? Is a mainstream news article allowed to mention by name? What even is the purpose of consent? Wasn't its lawful implementation to affirm free will, and safety? I can see a lot of more tangible problems ensuing like maybe some sort of workplace leak, or maybe identity fraud. Although that could arguably be curbed by requiring a watermark.
When I was younger and still in school I basically 'Deepfaked' anyone that I thought was attractive but had no hopes of getting with in my mind. Granted, it's not like I could monetize my fantasies . . .
While I feel for the violation these people feel, to compare it to rape is absolutely nuts. There is zero physical trauma or threat to the victim. It's making people uncomfortable. It's creepy and weird, but it's not even worthy of being a crime imo. If an artist drew a picture of Pokimane naked, it wouldn't have this effect, so AI generated art shouldn't either.
Its actually ridiculous that streamers like Ludwig have taken the position of "all men deserve criticism for this" but at the same time Atrioc isn't responsible for this? come on man we get it you would rather blame your faceless followers than your streamer buddy. I would've had more respect for Ludwig if he had just said "I'd rather be here for my girlfriend than make this situation into content".
For me, I've always been torn on issues like this. I feel no one should go through this no matter who you are but what keeps going "but" is that they decided to be "famous" i feel bad for the person who gets thier hand bit off by a tiger, but they reached into the cage to try and pet it. Please people just be better and don't abuse people fame for your profit.
Terrible analogy. There's plenty of famous people this never happens to. And this is brand new shit. Tigers have been biting people as long as there have been tigers and people. Also if you think this is only happening to famous people, you're an idiot. This is a threat to the safety and livelihoods of countless people. But if you ever end up getting deepfakes into something incriminating remind me to tell you that it is your fault for being on the internet. Edit to add: also, considering that these women are on record as already paying a shit load of money getting this shit offline, they're nothing like someone just sticking their hand in a tiger cage, they're someone who stuck a chain mailed hand in the cage of a heavily sedated tiger and a team of animal control experts around them and got bitten anyway. These people DO expect sick shit online about them and they've been doing everything they can to handle it and protect themselves only to have people stab them in the back anyway and release it all to the world. Also: people are NOT TIGERS. They're people who have intelligence and control of their actions. How about instead of expecting any famous person to take blame for being the victim of a crime a person intentionally committed against them, we focus on the choices the actual criminals made? There's a reason tigers are put in cages. So if you're honestly going to make that equivalency, then what exactly should we do to people who make this shit or even have the potential to make this shit? Any world where people actually think that being well known is a conscious decision to harassed and abused is a truly fucked up one and it will continue being terrible, and terrible people will continue to be enabled because of idiotic arguments like this. No, there is no justification for a person having to expect to be forced into porn because a lot of people know who they are. Absolutely none whatsoever. I know victim blaming is fun for certain people but that's one of the many reasons these proverbial tigers exist.
it’s not the fact that the deepfake was made it’s the fact that it be blown up by 1000000 by everything from reactions videos like this to journalists articles all farming it for content
Your argument is actually consistent with arguments that Asmongold made about people being scammed or abused, or even r*ped. “Sure, these people that made this to you are bad, but you could’ve prevented it”.
@@gezenews Horrible take. This could happen to anyone that posts pictures on social media. What are they supposed to do, not take pictures anymore? This isn't just disrespectful. What if someone makes a deep fake of a female high school student in a sexual scene and then spreads the video to the school? Their life and reputation would be ruined.
@@gezenews I'm sure you would think the same way if someone made a deep fake of you getting dicked down by 5 guys. Let's also spread the video to all your family, friends, and relatives too.
The technology behind producing deepfake, voice synthesisers, etc. is only going to get better and easier to access. If you are a high-profile personality, regardless of your profession, this will happen to you eventually. It's a shitty thing, but, expect it, and now expect it to happen more because it got this reaction. (Even though it's the right reaction).
Think she has a twit-longer on that situation but I haven't taken a deep look into that. To address the lack of people pointing out her past involvement that would be because the conversation is wider than just maya and that besides that her being a victim in this incident isn't invalidated by any of her previous actions. I don't see the utter disrespect but maybe I'm missing something
Although this deep fake situation is bad, it should be looked at as a bigger picture to be able to solve it. I think last year there was a question about us being able to copyright or own our likeness. I didn’t follow that movement so I don’t know what happened to that. But I feel like seeing it at this small niche could result in a bad solution. This is not new, we’ve had “bad” edits for people being sexualized, now that those edits are better, it’s becoming more noticeable. It’s sad to see that this is becoming more of a men vs women, because that won’t solve anything at all. I get that it feels like “the others” are the bad people, but the problem stands and it’s been like this for years. I remember old websites with bad edits from 15 years ago at least. But there are a lot of problems that this situation brings up, the double standard of sexualizing men being “okay”, the owning of our likeness, the illegal stuff on the internet, etc. still, an awful situation
There are people in this comment section who argue that "See unlike women men want to be sexualized I would love the thought of women getting off to me". Horny brain has override their common sense they don't even understand how bad it can be with their nudes floating around the internet.
@@seekittycat See its not "their" nudes though. People keep conflating a fake image with real ones. There is a BIG difference between those two...especially if you are talking about legalities.
Pirating is probably increasing because of all these stupid subscription services are ruining the ease of finding and consuming content. If I want to stream a specific show, half the time its on some other subscription service that I would need to pay for and/or they only have half of the episodes and/or a google/roku search tells me it is on a service that it isn't actually on. It is more of a pain in the butt than setting up a local media server. And stealing a TV show isn't going to cause someone else to starve. The morality of stealing an apple to survive doesn't track when you're talking about stealing from some multinational corporation that trashes half of the apples that are grown just to create artificial scarcity so their profits can remain high. Saying stealing an apple to starve is not immoral because the person you stole from will starve is the pinnacle of reductive.
I dont understand why people cry so much about it when deepfakes have been around for ages lmao I do not support them and I think it's a degenerate thing to do but why cry? it's literally not you. But having sexual thoughts of a friend or friend's partner and acting on them, now THAT is fucked up
Interestingly, celebrity look-a-like porn was all the rage over on Tumblr before they cracked down on explicit content. Basically, creators would scourer porn looking for pornstars that looked like famous celebs or the characters certain actors portray and either make gifs of specific scenes or even edit pornstar celeb look-a-likes from two separate films and use editing to put the people together and make gifs or video clips. Sounds to me, this guy got the idea from that trend and decided "screw all the hard work of video editing...I'll just use ai deep fake...and land myself some lawsuits. What a dumb dumb.
I'm not convinced they can be sued for anything as long as they didn't try to pass them off as real. It should fall under fair use, since it's clearly transformative content.
most of these streamers aren’t good people, asmongold is pretty cool but most aren’t, and most don’t give a fuck about poor people so why not profit off of them, they do not care about you at all
It's a gray area for sure, like most of "fair use" cases. But in the end, a deepfake is a new original product that's using public content. It's the same thing as AI art, but people are more angry about this because it's sexual.
@@liam3104 Yeah, it does, actually. Nowhere in the definition of Fair Use does it exclude sexual content. If it does, show me the text of the law. The only hurdle here is impersonation, but if you're clearly indicating to the user that it's fake, then there's definitely an interesting legal case for fair use.
Looking at the guidelines for US Copyright Fair Use, probably not. Deepfake porn mostly fails all 4 of the criteria that gets looked at for Fair Use. 1) Purpose and character of use: It’s being used for a commercial purpose which makes it less likely to be fair use, but it uses technology to transform content so this part is questionable. The answer to this will likely come from the results of the Stable Diffusion AI copyright court cases that hinge around this 2) Nature of the work: This criteria looks at how creative it is. Doing Deepfake porn once might be fair use, but doing it thousands of times would probably limit how much it can claim to be creative 3) Amount used compared to work as a whole: If it’s deepfake porn, 100% of the impersonation would be used throughout the video. It would be more likely to be fair use if the deepfake was a cameo that only showed up for one small part of a video 4) Potential to harm original copyright owner’s market share: These deepfake videos absolutely would be able to harm the original’s ability to make money off of the same content.
Agree with asmon, we don't really treat celebrities like people, there's no way we'll treat streamers as people, they are basically internet celebrities anyway.
@DeathNikki This is almost exactly how most streamers view their audience though. Faceless cash registers. Most of these streamers have thousands of viewers, whom they know almost none of them, and interact with them minimally.
@DeathNikki I think the best example of this is that PewDiePie stream where people saw his tag and added him and he lost his shit lol.
I thought quite a bit on this but yeah, as soon as you are a celebrity, you lose the right to complain about this(the sexualizing of their person) imo. Even if there is no deepfake, as another female streamer said there is some dude jerking off to female celebs' necks. Deepfake should probably be classed as parody, a convincing parody but parody none the less.
But it becomes a problem when deepfakes show people doing crimes, so I think before it gets to that, it should be banned. Not even allowed to be consented.
@@mrlacksoriginality4877 m
@@sygmarvexarion7891 doesn't make it any more right my dude, these celeb are still people ya feel me?
I like when asmon covers serious topics because it's a nice reminder for him to see that a good chunk of his audience is cancer.
Yeah holy cow this comment section is insane
For real. The people who can defend these actions are people who are ok with - and have probably already considered/committed - r@pe. Plain and simple. That shouldn't shock anyone, considering how often that crime is committed
Deepfakes are fine. Sexualizing people without consent is not. And deepfaking people as propaganda is not consensual either in a similar way.
His viewers need to be force-watched Dr. K's deepfake video.
@@greenburg2276 define sexualizing.
What makes streamers different than Actors in terms of hate and mental health is that your fans have 100% access to you and you interact with them on a daily basis throughout your work hours non stop. actors get critics and reviews and stuff but most time never interact with them.
Also, they intentionally embrace their negative reactions to make their content more interesting.
@@JohnDoe-tj8rq yeahh it's gotta take it's toll tbh, everyone thinks its a dream job ( and its a pretty dope one dont get me wrong ) but its not all rainbows, look at nikocado for example, that whole trainwreck is such a messy situation
exactly
This makes none of them a victim. if any of them feels they were wronged in any way they can take legal action if the case makes sense.
In response to not "sexualizing people without their consent", this treads into thoughtcrime. I should be able to imagine whoever I want however I want--we all know no one is going around asking women "do you mind if I fantasize about you". This "sexualizing people without their consent" seems to only be a problem when someone's imagination can be easily made manifest and shared with others. If these women want anyone to actually give a fuck, they should approach it from the very legitimate "profiting on my likeness without permission" angle, which I would assume is backed by the right to legal ownership of one's personal likeness, rather than some half-baked appeal to morals which would, on the face of it, advocate for censoring one's own thoughts from oneself.
This is the real world presentation of this situation. I'm rather shocked this take isn't more common.
Honestly pretty levelheaded comment.
there cannot be a moral stand when they use the platform which also has hottub streams
@@holoceneevent4534 Those women are consenting to it at that point but congrats on missing the bigger picture here.
Libertarians trying to not look insane mission impossible.
I thought using someone’s likeness for commercial gain was already illegal in most states
Ya but if he isn't selling the videos nothing you can do. Like I could make a t shirt of your face but if I'm not selling them you can't really do anything.
@@bob999yaitis but they are selling them, not individually but he bought a subscription membership
Other country's exist btw
@Shylogik if they pay for the service to make it, they aren't buying the art, just funding the site. So, even in this instance, it was buying and selling it would be one quick tweak to make it fully legal
Yeah even if there isn’t a subscription model, if there were ads the videos would be commercial.
I think people don't even think about how far deep fakes can be taken and how much damage they can cause. Imagine deep faking someone saying or doing something that is incredibly damaging or even incriminating and what that could cause.
That wouldn't cause anything since you could prove it's a deep fake
I feel like it would cause the opposite of what people think. I feel like rather than convict innocent people they'd haft to accept that video evidence is no longer viable since you can fake it
@@donut_42 ooooooook? What's that have to do with deep fakes
@Donut of Doom you do realize you have to prove that in court right.... as soon as they use ai footage as "proof" they get locked up for a false rape accusation....
@@theninja2k14 ai can determine if it's made by ai or not, no matter how good it gets.
The fact that people were bugging Ludwig to make a comment on the whole situation when his girlfriend was one of the people involved is just sad.
Sure he could have made a full on rage video when he was in a bad head space but he prioritised comforting the person close to him when they needed it which was the most important thing to him at the time. Obviously I don't know QT personally but from what I've seen of her I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him to go in guns blazing either.
His entire response was measured and focused on the important thing instead of making it all about his personal feelings.
Like really? People don't think... =[
the more drama the more entertainment. Pretty simple, anyone saying it's for other reasons is just straight up lying
I hate how streamers and the twitch community act suprised about this stuff, realistically their all doing weird shit that most people would wince at. Everytime someone gets exposed everyone just points a finger and makes content out of it.
Only the ones with the most deviant fetishes are screaming the loudest during such reveals. As if it's going to hide their own inhuman desires.
Thats not just streamers, thats human beings in general. Only difference is that streamers reactions are open to public...
@40:33 is kinda where I broke out of Asmon's influence lmfao. I respect the dude as a gamer, but what a terrible take on piracy. You absolutely can take a moral standpoint on piracy. Netflix movies and shows for example. Netflix's subscription has more than doubled in price since 2013, and the reality privileged people like Asmon seem to have forgotten in their come-ups is that most people are poor, and can hardly afford to live. To the majority of people viewing a stream, for example, being hit with 3 back-to-back-to-back one minute ads is enough to lose their attention, but they can't afford a sub, and gifts aren't guaranteed.
@@cruzjacknife8699 if people are poor their focus shouldn't be on a netflix sub
I mean this happens to Celebs for years... i just dont know how u can be suprised about it if u have millions of followers lol
Man, this whole debacle would make for a great segment of Wins and Fails
he became the very thing he swore to report on.
"y'all gotta stop doing this"
"use another pc"
bro, not what i expected him to say
That kinda joke is Literally what Asmon does tho
Pretty sure he meant use a different PC for all personal things, not use a different PC to look up deepfakes.
@@Honerkamp it indeed is, yet i was somehow still caught off guard
@@ProjctAce331 Exactly that is why it is funny.
@@xDarkTrinityx but if you do, at least be smart about it
"No female streamers were harmed during the making of this video"
I agree with like 99% of what is being said here, but there is just this one part of the debate that I really dislike. And its the whole mentality behind how men can't be sexualized. Like Ludwigs take about "If a mans balls get leaked its cool, while if a womens breasts gets leaked a bunch of *men* jack off" Like, excuse me? Do women not jack off, have gay people left the planet? Sure balls are not the most attractive part of the body, but either way, someone is going to. Didn't Ludwig have his balls leaked and a bunch of people sexualized it?
If a part of a persons body gets leaked out there, or deepfaked against their consent its messed up. It doesn't matter what gender, and to me it doesn't matter that it happens mostly to women, the key thing is that it happens. And I think excluding men from the topic as a whole is really not ok. This whole "Its mostly men that are the perpetrator" and "It's mostly woman that are the victims" mentality needs to end. In the end of it, its humans being hurt by humans. The gender does not matter, and making it matter does 3 things:
1; As Asmon says it dehumanizes people. All of a sudden you're no longer a person, you're a man, and a man is X, Y and Z which are all bad and you should feel bad for that ( using man in this example as its the one being used in the topic ) This is why you see people react with "Not all men" People are hurt when you say that its "mostly men" People are vulnerable, and that turns into defence, anger, sadness. And is that okay?
2; It excludes people from being a victims, all of a sudden you're not supposed to feel bad for having your body part leaked, because when men get their balls leaked its "cool"
3; It excludes people from being perpetrators, oh a woman would never jack off to someones leaked breasts, woman are too pure for that. ( Again, using woman as the example here because of the topic )
I write this because I personally feel the hurt that comes with a topic like this, the hurt that supposedly my gender is bad because, well its mostly men is it not? Instead of its always bad people. And that hurt turns into, anger, anger I try hard not to act on. But in the end it mostly just turns to dissociation. Not wanting to be part of the topic, caring neither for the people hurting or those hurt, because it just makes me feel like shit. So why bother? This is why I think it' so important to not specify a group of people as perpetrators, because there will always be someone i that group that gets pushed away, or even worse, pushed into becoming a perpetrator.
The way we phrase things, matter.
To wrap up, I want to say that I'm truly sorry to everyone who has gotten a picture of them leaked, photoshopped, deepfaked, you name it. Your pain, anger, sadness, frustration, dysmorphia is valid. This is not something you should have to worry about, and I'm sorry that you've had to go through that. I wish you nothing but the best, and hope you're able to feel safe, take care of yourself.
Schrodinger: I can prove a flaw in the Copenhagen Method
Everybody: So you are saying there is a magic cat?
😂 Meow meow.
Comparing to photoshop is much more realistic than drawing. Photoshopping celebrities onto bodies has been happening for 30 years. Atrioc said that it wasn't any of the people he knew personally, so to him the streamers might as well be famous people he doesn't know. No one has ever cared about Anya Taylor Joy getting her face photoshopped onto naked pictures. Also, everyone is talking about "girls should be allowed to consent" and Atrioc in the same conversation, which frankly, are 2 completely different conversations. Anyone can touch themselves to just real pictures or videos of their friends, that doesn't require consent lol.
Are you justifying it though?
@@alocalstalker3231 It doesn't matter, he's right. All the arguments against deepfakes have been levied against photoshop and the world didn't outlaw photoshop, the reason this is a big deal is because people who aren't used to being targeted are now realizing how easy it is to be a target and are making a big stink about it.
You pay for your fame with your anonymity
@alocalstalker3231 I'm not justifying deep faking anyone. I am however confused on what, other than paging 15 dollars for p, should Atrioc be CANCELED for. He's not the one profiting from it or making it.
@@omny6686 He may not be profiting or personally making it, but he is guilty of supporting it.
I think what gets me is like, iv never heard any of these people talk about it before. Even though it's been a thing for almost a decade. But now I'm being told I gotta care about it, nahh. You only care cause it happen to you and your friends, they wouldn't care if it happen to me or my friends.
This definitely won’t go away this is just the beginning
Yeah.
Its like UBER Eats and stuff.
U dont list on their websides but they act like u do and order at your restaurant still and del7ver it.
All without your concent...
Its nothing new...
I mean, you can't just slide the double standard aside here. If this were a girl who got caught looking at deepfakes of male streamers, would we be here talking about it at all? Or would it just be a "Oh hahah" moment as usual?
Someone's gonna deep fake Asmon putting vegetables on his plate with food
This is why I always listen to Asmon’s takes, I don’t always agree with him, but he doesn’t entertain those who only with to spark arguments. Rather, he asks how you would change or fix the issue, not bicker like children on twitter whilst pointing fingers at each other.
It's already illegal to profit from someone else's likeness without their permission. Law enforcement just has to do something.
The really sad thing is that the same thing has been actually happening forever, the only difference now is that instead of unrealistic 3d models we now have the most real-looking ai-generated fakes ever, and it's only going to get easier to create them as technology advances... it is unstoppable as it has always been and it will only get worse, and it's scary to think about, but sadly I don't think there's any solution to this and the only thing we can do is (as I think for most of the toxic topics on the internet) try to reduce the future consumers by educating children at home and at school while trying to stimulate their empathy and make them understand how horrible it is, as unrealistic as that sounds.
QT IS NOT IN THE PICTURES FOR ANYONE WONDERING. It was just said it was on the site.
The rhetoric around "Not all men... But always a man" is pretty unfair and what it does is that it further antagonizes men. Not doubt that it was 90-10 m/f but like as a man who doesnt engage in this kind of degeneracy I feel like I am being looped into it. All it does is that it makes people want to disagree with you or it makes them not want to engage with your debate at all.
Is it not true?
@RivailleRavioli it's mostly men, but it's not most men. Most child murder is committed by women, but most women don't murder kids, so no one says all women are child murders. So I would say your sexism is showing.
@@FirstYokai Someone gave the harry styles situation. Deep fake that was shared and giddy about.
How much Henry Cavill and other male actors are sexualised, especially when some of them are obviously not comfortable with it.
The selling of it might be male-focused, but the fantasy and behaviour are not.
It’s that kind of rhetoric which is why the red pill content got so popular. Turns out, demonizing an entire gender and telling them they’re awful bc of their immutable characteristics is actually a bad thing to do
I think Ludwig makes a stupid argument when he says "Well, only men were involved in the creation of this site so somehow it's okay to generalize men's behaviour and call all of them pigs". Yeah, they were female streamers, of course the majority of people involved in making nudes of them would be men. If you got into some weird K-Pop community, you would probably find a majority of women sexualizing the male singers (and a majority of men sexualizing the female singers), yet it wouldn't be fair labelling them all as evil just because of a group of weirdos.
He's saying that maybe it isn't all men that do these things; but conveniently it has been men exclusively that do all these things. And, oddly enough, only men that have been defending Atrioc.
@@TwilightWolf285 Maybe men wouldn't jump to his side if the victims didn't react by lumping every men together with who should be accountable for it.
It's was a knee-jerk reaction by the victims side, considering the situation, but it's inflamatory, as you can see.
Now everyone that's vocal about not wanting to be called perverts because of criminals is considered to be defending Atrioc.
He never said that though? His specific quote was "Not all men, but somehow always men"
That last part doesn't cancel out the first. He doesn't describe this as an issue with all men being pigs.
Also I get that this is the internet so it can be hard to truly measure scope, but if you really think that the problem of women sexualizing men without their consent in "some weird K=pop communities" out there somewhere that neither of us have seen or can name without digging for it is equivalent to the problem of men sexualizing women, which we see examples of every single day both in real life as well as online discourse like this, then you're simply not critically thinking about the issue or just don't care about it.
Like... he even says that this is a *disproportionately* male problem. I don't know why some people feel so defensive over that conversation.
I'm a man too and none of these arguments have ever made me feel like I'm being judged as a pervert or a pig, because I'm aware that I don't engage in the behavior being talked about.
@@sere971 Because it's always women crying about this. Yeah, if you shine the light on one side of course that's all you're gonna see. Because guess what? Generally, guys don't care. It's not hard to understand.
Ludwig is just being sexist.
The most insane things that I hear around this conversations isn't the actual AI but the implications of the consequences around it for the people who has their identity taken.
That the creation of these videos, especially without their consent, can cause them to lose job opportunities, that people send them the videos asking the creators if it is them, or that they can be extorted with these videos by that people send it to their friends and families.
#35 trending in gaming. Really love the gameplay
I'm not defending it but all I'm saying is that this has been happening to celebrities for years and now all of a sudden people want to talk about it as soon as it happens to streamers
@@SingedWasRight second this
Did people suddenly come to a realization that anything they publish stops being private..?
this is just a shift in weirdness. think about it. how many girls who make onlyfans really enjoy the idea that guys buy their content to wack off to? girls only care that they are making money from it as they should. that's their end goal. but deep down those same women think its probably pathetic that guys pay for their shit. like get a gf dude, kinda logic.
so this deep fake stuff is just a shift passed inceldom into something far less controlled and a lot more volatile. so it freaks those girls out as it should. it's not normal. if the Streisand effect really pushes this technology into the forefront of poxn entertainment, there might be some pushback at first but if there's a way for people to monetize it, you know, take advantage of this system that takes advantage of them to make a profit off it, then it'll be normalized as a new product of sad incel behavior; the bar lowered even further.
look at code miko, she was one of the first to invest serious money into that V-tuber crap. it paid off is it was fairly new stuff that she got in early. the same thing could happen with this deepfake crap just in a more taboo way.
i'm not for that shit at all. i'm just calling it like it is. based off of what has happened in the past. when people cannot kill the beast, it eventually turns into a lucrative form of entertainment, irrespective of how disgusting it is.
I sympathize, but QT's "this is what pain looks like" response certainly came across as a performative overreaction. It seems like a slap in the face to victims of actual sexual assault.
@rick mel you think what qt went through was ptsd?
"Can I please sexualize you?" "Will you sign this sexualization contract?" What a world
It's even more insane to me that people will make sexual content of people who aren't involved whatsoever in that world. And the worst part is that people will continue to excuse it, as if it's normal.
This is how you're required to ask women out on 2023 or you go on the offender watchlist
@@unlisted9494 When was the last time you spoke to a woman?😂
@@TwilightWolf285 I mean, the people who are doing the deep-fakes are "fullfilling a fantasy" There's no need to photoshop the face of a pronstar onto the body of another pronstar. that content already exists. Pokimane taking the n00dle, on the other hand, is not.
I'm not defending it, just EXPLAINING why people would do what you stated in your first sentence. It does make logical sense, its just morally wrong.
Still cant believe what has happened. I never expected Big A to fall from grace like this. I think that everyone will get over the whole situation eventually. I hope he is in good spirits when he comes back. Much love to everyone.
Dude its happening since military allowed internet
dont get me wrong, its bad. but the way people are acting sounds more like he intentionally leaked an ex-gfs nudes for revenge or something, rather than what it was. im sure he'll be back if he wants to come back.
@@auscaliber1 the way people are acting? The fuck does other people's actions or opinions have to do with what his real intentions were? That's a very bold claim to be making and I have never even seen atrioc nor do I like him since this is the first I've actually seen of him so I'm not on his side or anything. That's just a really bad accusation to make. Thats MUCH worse than watching deep fake porn. To assume someone is THAT scummy because of having a certain website open is totally wrong.
Tbf leaking it on stream is what brought attention to it and got it taken down though that could’ve happened without the leak
tbh people can do it with or without AI all they need is a clip or screencapture and theyre good, there is nothing that can interrupt someones will to do it if they want to and just because someone knows that they did that doest make it worse. I know most people are better of not knowing that thats happening behind the scenes and when reality hits its hard but thats unfortunately life
@@SoverineSR very true
@@SoverineSR it's not like you share your fantasies with the world when you fap tho, isn't that obviously the big difference and problem? of course everyone knows everyone sexualizes to some degree, the problem is in making it public and in explicit content format
My mind is a Deepfake generator……
true but not everyone can visualize imagery as well as someone like you or someone with an artistic visually stimulated mind.
is it possible to learn this power?
@@toastytoast9800 If you dont have it already, you are an NPC.
I kinda have it, but I need a picture for it to start workin'. Just normal photos
@@toastytoast9800 Not from a Jedi.
"can't stop people for making it" is not a good reason not to make laws around it tbh, it'll definitely reduce it and make people think twice before engaging
govern me harder daddy
@@donut_42 sure but this means at least there is at least one less service for it out there. Lots of people still pirate music but it would be way more if it was legal don't you think? Laws work
I don't think anyone is saying that laws shouldn't be made against it. We are just saying that content like that is inevitable, and even if it is reduced, it won't be stopped, which you kinda stated in your comment anyway.
It won't stop shit. Drugs are illegal and lots of people do them. Murder is illegal yet people get killed everyday
Tell that to drugs and alchohol. Banning those DEFINTLY did more good than harm 🙄. Stop trying to micromanage people.
I hate how people equate shit like rape or human trafficking to fake nudes. It's not even comparable.
AIso, fake nudes are obviously fake and until the tech gets to the point where you legitimately can't tell if it's actually the person or not I don't care. It IS parody, and you won't convince me otherwise.
I feel like everyone is trying to fucking gaslight me and each other on this "issue". It's not an issue, yet.
we are almost there already, that's why people are panicking . And honestly it would be better to make laws sooner then later
@rick mel how is that even related or remotely similar to what he said?
@@SingedWasRight Distribution, Hosting and Possession to be illegal.
@@SingedWasRight Why shouldn’t it be?
@@SingedWasRight What would be negated? It could easily be classified as Revenge Porn.
I love how genuine his takes are on these videos but I also love all the meme content from this comment section lol
Asmongold: "Can we please stop pretending like the U.S. government controls the internet?"
China: 😢
Amazon Web Services 🌾
@@pcbangbros8350 Is that suppose to mean something?
@@VegaSnipe AWS.
@@pcbangbros8350 That's a no.
The argument about parody laws is really good. If it's being sold as deep fakes and not advertised as the real thing then how is it any different from fan art and so on?
If there are any laws put in place for this it will be about false advertisement and fraud, not people's privacy or dignity on the internet. Maybe there is an argument to be made about people's faces becoming their intellectual property from now. Kind of like tattoos. A difficult thing to traverse through. Do we copyright voices too? Bodyshape? What about identical twins?
Sucks, but what's the 34th rule of the internet?
The big problem is that people can put a disclaimer saying it isn't fake on the website that they sell it, but once it spreads into the internet, the disclaimer doesn't go along with it.
So when it reaches someone's family and friends, it creates such a horrible situation and for what? Just so some dickhead can profit?
At the end of the day, it is much easier to convince someone to believe a lie than it is to convince them to believe they were lied to. No matter how someone tries, they are not going to be able to tell everyone that those pictures/videos were deepfaked. Especially with the technology getting as good as it is getting.
It is putting complete strangers into a horrible position for personal gain. It is sickeningly selfish. Personally, I find it to be indefensible from any kind of moral standpoint.
That's tough to say tbh, but i'm pretty sure that even if it's fan art the creators can stop what you doing it because they own the right too the character. Now how would this translate to actual people i have no idea.
@@freedomextremist7215 "This has been estabilished law forever"
Law changes all the time buddy, especially since as the context of the world changes.
How can you regulate a technology with a law that was created before that technology was even conceptualized?
Laws aren't written in stone. Laws have always changed. Guidelines are updated. Regulations adapt.
@@naosou921 Legally, the culpability would then be on whoever was spreading the videos and claiming they were real, not the original creator.
In a world (like the one we have now) where celebreties are being deepfaked all the time, it should be easy enough for someone to say "that's not real, it's deepfaked" and move on. Does anyone really believe Pokimane had a train ran on her by the men from blacked?
Its nuts how the conversation went from deep fakes to the argument of the universe and what is and what isn't lol. I feel bad for all the super High people watching this and freaking out.
"Not ALL men But... somehow ALWAYS a man."
Bruh this is why we started using the nerd emoji to mock this kind of L takes
I feel like people have forgotten about the celebrity lookalike porn genre. This shit has always existed, it’s just easier and cheaper to produce now
Are deepfakes a problem when they try to pass off as real or just a problem in of itself? The technology and applications of the technology are fascinating and will no doubt change the entertainment industry.
It's a problem because you are gaining profit off of someones likeness without their consent. So... stealing. And the fact that it's done in the porn industry makes it 10x worse, and also takes from pornstars who, maybe at some point, will be out of work because people will just AI generate and deepfake all porn.
Deepfakes are usually bad because you can tell its botched as fuck though sometimes the content can be "good." Hope it sticks around longer.
Imagine they make a deepfake of you saying things you don't agree with. Maybe you are a conservative and they make you say heinous things. Maybe you are a liberal and they make you say heinous things. They can deepfake voices and faces, eventually we won't be able to trust ANY video or recording we hear. Imagine your mom calls you on the phone but actually its a deepfake of your mom to scam you. The technology for live deep fakes (sort of like a filter) is getting better everyday. Soon having any picture of you on social media will be enough for someone to steal your entire identity online.
If you believe in private property, then yes. Deepfakes are an invasion of privacy, you're using someone's likeness or voice without their consent. However if you advocate for the abolishment of privacy, then deepfakes are fine, that's where the problem lies, with people who don't necessarily believe that you can have private ownership of things or yourself, but who still think that deepfakes are bad. Due to the nature of deepfakes being 100% an invasion of privacy, you can see where the contradictions can lie.
Most of the technologies are not the problem themselves. Deepfake is already widely used in cinema movies to swap stunt man with the actors.
How to use it is the problem, e.g.using it for porn. Fake sexual material is not new. People made photoshopped celebrities nude 20 years ago.
It can deal with the law, but it is really hard to execute.
I think the best way to handle a situation like this in regards to deepfakes, is to reduce presence of deepfake sites to the degree in wich a person would have to use a vpn, go through certain network tunneling, and generally do a bunch of stuff to gain access. You can not really eliminate this issue, but making it harder to have such ease of access to content like this to the point it is more of a hassle to get to is the next best thing.
I feel bad for his wife. Having her on stream was cringe and not even mentioning her on the tweet.
The drawing comment is what I was thinking, but Asmon took it the wrong way. This is AI generated and is currently labeled as art, so it falls in the same category as drawings of people. Meaning it would be difficult to stop this legally.
His response about impersonation would make more sense if someone tried to pass these off as real or tried to use deepfakes to scam people. He himself has uploaded a video where he laughed at an AI copy of him that someone made. Granted, that wasn't adult content, but my point is that deepfakes aren't inherently illegal as long as nobody tries to pass them off as real or uses them to scam people.
"stop sexualizing ppl with out their consent" - Ok... so i will never be sexualy attracted to anyone without their consent... I get what his saying. "Dont create sexual *content* with out their consent"
NO! You're supposed to STOP THINKING about people who do not want you to think about them! Have some respect! /s
@@profanemagic5671 Amen🙏 brother 😤
It's actually funny now how ppl were freaking out after poki mentioned legislation, like she was trying to go after ppl who don't like her 1984 style. It's about porn guys, it was always about ppl making and using porn in illicit nefarious ways.
He only watched it, it's not like he created it. This is cancel culture overreaction. People acting like the women were assaulted just because of deep fake, wtf
Ruined a friendship with his own stupidity but otherwise, who cares.
ad block and adds are a complete different argument
since the law can't impose content on a viewer, but also can't deny for companies to pay for ads.
A few years ago there was all this outrage over guys just having the image of someone in their head while masturbating.
Asmongold is a very intelligent person.
Just wanted to throw this out there.
Noticed it in many of his Videos. He always has pretty deeply, well thought out opinions on situations.
His audience is a lot more mature than most as well. Even when he gives takes that on first view would seem outrageous or could be misunderstood they immediately get it, whether they agree or not.
comparing deepfakes to rape is a real 2023 take
The sad reality is that the cat is out of the bag. You can limit access by making it harder to get to it but you will never be able to stop it. You can't criminalize usage but you can go after creators within reason.
Is he upset because he did it, or because he got caught is the real question.
Would Atrioc have had this sudden epiphany himself without outside intervention?...
Hell no
wouldn't that the case in any situation?
but its true that if no one knows about it it didn't happen
Honestly, if Ludwig has just told the people hitting him up over this “fuck off, you guys come second right now” I would think that’s fair
To be honest, it's only going to get worse and more prevalent now. Might as well teach these streamers to deal with it in a healthy way because after pandora's box is open, there is no going back. Eventually deepfakes will get accurate voiceovers as well, which will make it indistinguishable from the original person. This is the price of fame in the modern age. You signed on the dotted line, the repercussions are not fair but neither is life.
Lmao ok but it’s illegal to sell it which is the big problem. Even if you’re stepping around the take you’re making by saying it’s not fair it’s still an incel take. Wether you know it or not.
@@greenburg2276 ok but try living in reality instead of fantasyland for a second. We don't live in a idealistic world. People lack morals. Know this instead of crying about it on the internet when those facts are proven to be true. The bigger incel take is white knighting on the topic like that is going to help anyone lmao
@@greenburg2276 calling him an incel is crazy bro I got some bad news for you called anywhere that isnt north america we really should teach them how to deal with this healthily cause it's not going away. Just being real, wack ass mfs for doing it tho
the lack of action is what will make it get worse. The normalization of the action will make it worse. If we just as a collective normalize people being deepfaked, it'll repell people from wanting to have any platform at all. The fact that this even happens and is almost strictly a problem that women face online is a huge problem in itself and the denial of that and choosing to remain ignorant about that is what will make it worse.
@@NaiveAgenda it’s illegal though in multiple states. Do you have this take with more dark pork? “It exists so deal with it.” Your ISP probably hates you with how many times they have to log your searches on Tor and report them to authorities.
13:26
Hell, probably most of the audience is but some aren't like this.
I wish you a happy and great life asmon. You're not just a dancing monkey. I think you're an extremely authentic person and that deserves a lot of respect.
Ofc people wish to be in the same position to be famous and earn a lot but I think it's possible to be jealous AND grateful for what the other person has at the same time.
Like one wants what another has but this person is still happy about the other person having these things.
I think you have a great attitude towards things, cause I think the ways you're thinking will keep you sane in this hateful world, so keep it up buddy c:
Imagine paying for pron lol
I will never understand paying for it.
Frankly, you don't need consent to fantasize about someone. Which is really what they mean when they say sexualize.
Well, this goes beyond a typical fantasy. You MUST admit its a step removed when you create a physical product that everyone can view out of the 'exact' likeness of an individual who didn't consent to it?
@@mrjtfang2 agreed, this whole situation has so many nuances to it lol
On one hand yeah, you don't need consent to use your damn imagination. Anyone can fap to anyone, or think up scenarios. But a grey line has been crossed the moment you make something out of it, and a solid line has been jumped over when, as you said, a product that sells is made
@@mrjtfang2 It's not the 'exact' likeness, it's putting their face on someone else's body. Only the face even remotely resembles their actual likeness.
And to the original post's point, people keep arguing about being sexualized without consent, and say stupid stuff like they don't present themselves sexually.
No one needs your consent to sexualize you. Humans do it naturally all the time. And guess what, there isn't anything wrong with a guy wondering how a woman would look naked. It's normal, it's natural, and it's not deviant behavior.
Even if they decided to draw what they imagined, or rendered it with a computer, it's not some moral outrage like people are pretending here.
I'm sick of seeing certain people pretending guys having sexual desires is problematic. Women are not entitled to not being seen in a sexual way. No one is. Some people seem to think they are, this is a mistake. Humans are sexual creatures.
@@koolaidjerk Having a sexual fantasy about someone in the privacy of your own head is totally different. No one is saying that men having sexual desires, or fantasising about women is wrong, don't be ridiculous.
@@koolaidjerk Psychically manifesting those fantasies in drawings/renders/deep fakes is when it becomes problematic. Its alarming you cant see that tbh.
Poki has sexualised herself for profit and then complains about being sexualised...modern women
No she hasn't. Jfc worst take 2023 from an incel.
Asmon "It's actually because I fn hate Charlie, ok? He's got better hair than me, and I don't like it."
I love Asmon :)
I generally agree with Asmon, however imo he discounts the deeper reason to why these things occur. Viewing porn is toxic to a person in a much deeper way than most of us give it credit for. It literally changes your brain chemistry. I know most of us can attest to the negative effects of porn use gradually throughout our lives. What starts off as watching 'normal' porn eventually does escalate to darker and more demeaning things. The normal stuff doesn't appeal as much anymore and we look for heavier material which can quickly get out of control. There is a reason why Ted Bundy attributed his killings to his porn use.
In Atrioc's case, things got out of hand for him. Does that make him a bad person? I would argue no. But that definitely does not discount his actions and the fact that he let his porn use get to that point.
Shit argument. Everything causes changes to your brain chemistry. Besides, people are allowed to do shit which damages them - cigarettes, alcohol, watching twitch streamers, etc..
If the standard is not "sexualizing people without their consent", that's an impossible standard. I hate that phrase, we need to stop using it. It's logically deficient, and falls apart with the smallest amount of scrutiny. Say what you mean. "Stop touching women without their consent" "Stop making deepfakes of women without their consent." "Stop spreading women's paywalled content without their consent." See how easy that was? These statements actually mean something. "Sexualizing" is something you do in your own head, it's subjective, vague, and essentially meaningless.
It does matter to a small extent, if making a law is only a baby step in curving the problem then that's what should happen because there really is no other steps against it. Even if that law can only be upheld to a tiny extent because the internet is vast, identities are easily hidden, and is not dictated by a single country it can still be upheld to some extent...no matter how small. Talking about it may help in some extent but it also informs the people who may be interested in this to it's existence...in the end talking is only going to make it bigger so the only thing we can do about it is take actions against it, and the only actions against it are legal actions.
As far as the guy talking about it being a parody, two things to that, the first is a point made by Asmongold, no using someone's likeness and identity, even only for comedic effect is not a parody, someone's likeness and identity is not a style of art or expression...this would be closer to defamation than a parody. It's not like you're taking their hairstyle and color and using their makeup style or whatever else on a different person, this is literally using their personal image and creating something then monetizing it. The second is that a parody is always conscious about itself being a parody, advertising a deepfake as anything other than a deepfake (such as a "leak") automatically destroys any defense of it being a parody.
the person who got deepfakes into porn should be able to copyright claim the video to discourage the people who produce it
"Laws won't do anything" is a super crusty take. Child porn laws exist for the sole purpose of attempting to prevent harm and for punishing individuals that consume the end product. Obviously they don't "solve" everything, but why would you not want to at least do SOMETHING?
In America at least, this kind of stuff falls under the first amendment. This isn't new, rags like Hustler Magazine have been doing things like this to celebrities for decades.
The take comparing this to rape is the most hyperbolic shit in the world. I can understand it makes you uncomfortable and violates your privacy. But comparing it to actual sexual assault is kinda insulting to all survivors.
With regards to laws, Asmon is right that countries having different laws on deepfakes can make it difficult to combat. However, we can look towards the global response towards human trafficking to see that if countries work together to have a unified system regarding the issue, it is possible. The only problem is that with everything going on, I doubt China and Russia are in a particular cooperative mood so that would be difficult.
It is also possible to criminalize the consumption of deepfake porn, which the US could probably do without the help of other nations. That won't eliminate the problem but it would put a much greater risk of producing and consuming deepfake porn that might make it more prohibitive.
I mean yeah I agree but let's face it, you won't find any international collaboration against deepfake porn as with other more serious crimes like human trafficking. Compared to human trafficking, deepfaking porn is like getting a parking ticket on the crime scale. Deepfake porn certainly hurts people but the economic and social damage is negligible currently. 5 Years ago, stalking as a crime wasn't even something in the lawbooks of many eu countries. If you had a stalker, you were fucked, there was nothing you could do. Now finally things are changing a bit. But it's slow progress. Challenging crime means rules, these rules need to be enforced, ergo more manpower, means more expenditure, more taxes - and people hate taxes. Maybe google could blacklist that stuff but that would just move the issue to the darknet.
Global unified system? hmmm.. maybe... maybe not also... UN is barely agreeing on how people are treated with their human rights discussions for the past decade... Even WHO have controversies... so unless there is a significant reason for a global unity that aint gonna happen. People from one country human trafficking people from other countries... people from other countries supplying drugs on other countries and trafficking too... and people do the same even to thier own countrymen.... It's the depravity that exist on Humans so when a wall is setup they create tunnels, if you clog the tunnels they fly over, if you seal the dome they bribe the guards... its not as simple as cooperation but dealing with the depravity that exist on each human.
So i can't even expect any dent of help any global response that will be done.
Lets be real... its not a big enough deal that all the countries in the world will put down their difference to deal with this.
they will never ban deepfake porn outright, it will only be banned if it is included in some bill that bans all deepfakes.
I think it makes it easier to think of it like this:
1. All vice should be removed by the state
2. Porn is a vice.
THEREFORE.
3. the state should remove porn.
Whether it is effective or not does not matter - the syllogism stands and thus the moral obligation.
I wonder if this reasoning is appealing to you?
To put it in moralistic terms to make the syllogism even easier to follow:
1. All evil should be removed by the state
2. Porn is evil
THEREFORE
3. Porn should be removed by the state
You could distinguish premise 1.
- opposition that would cause more evil, I deny (that the state should remove in such a case)
- opposition where more good occurs (less evil), I concede (that the state should remove in such a case)
I’m not excusing this but this is unfortunately a risk you take with public life.
absurd argument
@@MethSloth why? Care to elaborate?
This is something that can't be won . The more you pull the more there's going to be it's best to ignore it at the moment all there doing is advertising for something that existed long before the streamers fighting it .
While I think this is the case, I can't see how any media differentiates from this. Is lud allowed to make this video without the dudes consent? Is he allowed to reference pokimane without consent? Is a mainstream news article allowed to mention by name?
What even is the purpose of consent? Wasn't its lawful implementation to affirm free will, and safety? I can see a lot of more tangible problems ensuing like maybe some sort of workplace leak, or maybe identity fraud. Although that could arguably be curbed by requiring a watermark.
"Man watches pornography" Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for drama here. Slow month I guess.
asmon - "use another PC" looking at his other PC lol
Speaking of sexualizing people without their consent. Has anybody heard about Wattpad? Or fan-fiction genre?
Honestly, whats the difference between this and fanfiction?
none. Its more of an insecurity thing more than anything else. It's okay to be weirded out by it tho
Crazy how Ludwig is literally saying that men and women are not equal when it helps his image but hey I won’t say anything
Much respect to you Asmond.
When I was younger and still in school I basically 'Deepfaked' anyone that I thought was attractive but had no hopes of getting with in my mind.
Granted, it's not like I could monetize my fantasies . . .
I mean if you just keep it to yourself then why not? But if it gets spread around though...😬
AI shit in the last year has been absolutely nuts tbh
While I feel for the violation these people feel, to compare it to rape is absolutely nuts. There is zero physical trauma or threat to the victim. It's making people uncomfortable. It's creepy and weird, but it's not even worthy of being a crime imo. If an artist drew a picture of Pokimane naked, it wouldn't have this effect, so AI generated art shouldn't either.
@@Thanatos2k I've seen tons of sexy streamer art. Why is no one calling out those artists?
Its actually ridiculous that streamers like Ludwig have taken the position of "all men deserve criticism for this" but at the same time Atrioc isn't responsible for this? come on man we get it you would rather blame your faceless followers than your streamer buddy. I would've had more respect for Ludwig if he had just said "I'd rather be here for my girlfriend than make this situation into content".
He's telling everyone what he is. Just listen.
For me, I've always been torn on issues like this. I feel no one should go through this no matter who you are but what keeps going "but" is that they decided to be "famous" i feel bad for the person who gets thier hand bit off by a tiger, but they reached into the cage to try and pet it. Please people just be better and don't abuse people fame for your profit.
Terrible analogy. There's plenty of famous people this never happens to. And this is brand new shit. Tigers have been biting people as long as there have been tigers and people. Also if you think this is only happening to famous people, you're an idiot. This is a threat to the safety and livelihoods of countless people.
But if you ever end up getting deepfakes into something incriminating remind me to tell you that it is your fault for being on the internet.
Edit to add: also, considering that these women are on record as already paying a shit load of money getting this shit offline, they're nothing like someone just sticking their hand in a tiger cage, they're someone who stuck a chain mailed hand in the cage of a heavily sedated tiger and a team of animal control experts around them and got bitten anyway.
These people DO expect sick shit online about them and they've been doing everything they can to handle it and protect themselves only to have people stab them in the back anyway and release it all to the world.
Also: people are NOT TIGERS. They're people who have intelligence and control of their actions. How about instead of expecting any famous person to take blame for being the victim of a crime a person intentionally committed against them, we focus on the choices the actual criminals made?
There's a reason tigers are put in cages. So if you're honestly going to make that equivalency, then what exactly should we do to people who make this shit or even have the potential to make this shit?
Any world where people actually think that being well known is a conscious decision to harassed and abused is a truly fucked up one and it will continue being terrible, and terrible people will continue to be enabled because of idiotic arguments like this. No, there is no justification for a person having to expect to be forced into porn because a lot of people know who they are. Absolutely none whatsoever. I know victim blaming is fun for certain people but that's one of the many reasons these proverbial tigers exist.
it’s not the fact that the deepfake was made it’s the fact that it be blown up by 1000000 by everything from reactions videos like this to journalists articles all farming it for content
Your argument is actually consistent with arguments that Asmongold made about people being scammed or abused, or even r*ped. “Sure, these people that made this to you are bad, but you could’ve prevented it”.
@@gezenews Horrible take. This could happen to anyone that posts pictures on social media. What are they supposed to do, not take pictures anymore? This isn't just disrespectful. What if someone makes a deep fake of a female high school student in a sexual scene and then spreads the video to the school? Their life and reputation would be ruined.
@@gezenews I'm sure you would think the same way if someone made a deep fake of you getting dicked down by 5 guys. Let's also spread the video to all your family, friends, and relatives too.
It's both fascinating and disturbing to see how chatters react to this topic
The technology behind producing deepfake, voice synthesisers, etc. is only going to get better and easier to access. If you are a high-profile personality, regardless of your profession, this will happen to you eventually. It's a shitty thing, but, expect it, and now expect it to happen more because it got this reaction. (Even though it's the right reaction).
Lmfao rule #1 in life. Never use your main pc for anything questionable.
That's just common sense
How is no-one pointing out the utter disrespect Maya is showing to the girl who's sexual assault she helped cover up.
Think she has a twit-longer on that situation but I haven't taken a deep look into that. To address the lack of people pointing out her past involvement that would be because the conversation is wider than just maya and that besides that her being a victim in this incident isn't invalidated by any of her previous actions. I don't see the utter disrespect but maybe I'm missing something
@@SamCarvajal Comparing the levels of sexual assault like she isn't a monster that ruined a woman life
Although this deep fake situation is bad, it should be looked at as a bigger picture to be able to solve it. I think last year there was a question about us being able to copyright or own our likeness. I didn’t follow that movement so I don’t know what happened to that. But I feel like seeing it at this small niche could result in a bad solution. This is not new, we’ve had “bad” edits for people being sexualized, now that those edits are better, it’s becoming more noticeable. It’s sad to see that this is becoming more of a men vs women, because that won’t solve anything at all. I get that it feels like “the others” are the bad people, but the problem stands and it’s been like this for years. I remember old websites with bad edits from 15 years ago at least. But there are a lot of problems that this situation brings up, the double standard of sexualizing men being “okay”, the owning of our likeness, the illegal stuff on the internet, etc. still, an awful situation
Privileged internet thots made it a "woman" issue, it's just an internet issue and old one too
There are people in this comment section who argue that "See unlike women men want to be sexualized I would love the thought of women getting off to me". Horny brain has override their common sense they don't even understand how bad it can be with their nudes floating around the internet.
@@seekittycat See its not "their" nudes though. People keep conflating a fake image with real ones. There is a BIG difference between those two...especially if you are talking about legalities.
Maya's take: "Men shouldn't be involved in the discussion about what men coom to."
People ACTUALLY think that is a good take 🤡🤡🤡
I thought this exact thing, why do people think in order to show support for anything to do with women you have to absolutely shit on all men?
Deepfake porn is weird as hell even ignoring how creepy and unethical it is. Bro just use your imagination.
Pirating is probably increasing because of all these stupid subscription services are ruining the ease of finding and consuming content. If I want to stream a specific show, half the time its on some other subscription service that I would need to pay for and/or they only have half of the episodes and/or a google/roku search tells me it is on a service that it isn't actually on. It is more of a pain in the butt than setting up a local media server. And stealing a TV show isn't going to cause someone else to starve. The morality of stealing an apple to survive doesn't track when you're talking about stealing from some multinational corporation that trashes half of the apples that are grown just to create artificial scarcity so their profits can remain high. Saying stealing an apple to starve is not immoral because the person you stole from will starve is the pinnacle of reductive.
“Piracy is a service issue” -Gabe Newell
All he really did was caused a spike in interest in probably an already growing interest
Overall big L on him for paying for that
I dont understand why people cry so much about it when deepfakes have been around for ages lmao
I do not support them and I think it's a degenerate thing to do but why cry? it's literally not you. But having sexual thoughts of a friend or friend's partner and acting on them, now THAT is fucked up
Interestingly, celebrity look-a-like porn was all the rage over on Tumblr before they cracked down on explicit content. Basically, creators would scourer porn looking for pornstars that looked like famous celebs or the characters certain actors portray and either make gifs of specific scenes or even edit pornstar celeb look-a-likes from two separate films and use editing to put the people together and make gifs or video clips. Sounds to me, this guy got the idea from that trend and decided "screw all the hard work of video editing...I'll just use ai deep fake...and land myself some lawsuits. What a dumb dumb.
While I agree that it’s dumb, creating any ai is significantly more complicated then editing a look a like video. Like wayyyyyy more complicated
I'm not convinced they can be sued for anything as long as they didn't try to pass them off as real. It should fall under fair use, since it's clearly transformative content.
i don’t care about people profiting in rich women or even men honestly
most of these streamers aren’t good people, asmongold is pretty cool but most aren’t, and most don’t give a fuck about poor people so why not profit off of them, they do not care about you at all
stop sexualizing people with their consent... what??? no shit if i ask someone i dont even know would they say yes??? no right? what a redundant quote
Serious question, wouldnt deepfakes be considered as fair use?
In the context of profiting on it I mean.
How is it fair use? You are not using content, you are making fake content, depicting someone in sexual way.
It's a gray area for sure, like most of "fair use" cases. But in the end, a deepfake is a new original product that's using public content. It's the same thing as AI art, but people are more angry about this because it's sexual.
@@-PureRogue them being depicted in a sexual way doesn't have anything to do with fair use
@@liam3104 Yeah, it does, actually. Nowhere in the definition of Fair Use does it exclude sexual content. If it does, show me the text of the law. The only hurdle here is impersonation, but if you're clearly indicating to the user that it's fake, then there's definitely an interesting legal case for fair use.
Looking at the guidelines for US Copyright Fair Use, probably not. Deepfake porn mostly fails all 4 of the criteria that gets looked at for Fair Use.
1) Purpose and character of use: It’s being used for a commercial purpose which makes it less likely to be fair use, but it uses technology to transform content so this part is questionable. The answer to this will likely come from the results of the Stable Diffusion AI copyright court cases that hinge around this
2) Nature of the work: This criteria looks at how creative it is. Doing Deepfake porn once might be fair use, but doing it thousands of times would probably limit how much it can claim to be creative
3) Amount used compared to work as a whole: If it’s deepfake porn, 100% of the impersonation would be used throughout the video. It would be more likely to be fair use if the deepfake was a cameo that only showed up for one small part of a video
4) Potential to harm original copyright owner’s market share: These deepfake videos absolutely would be able to harm the original’s ability to make money off of the same content.
“Welcome to the internet, take a look around.”
I just can't get over the fact that people pay for porn.
Apologies always make situations worse.
*public apologies. In private would've been 100% better
You mean like Rich?