Most of the comments are focusing on whether it's fair for KC to play qualifiers or whether it would be fair for them to get to bypass qualifiers, but this is missing the point. The real question is whether it's fair for suhhh and Top Cougars to have to play KC just to qualify when other qualifying teams don't. Sure, KC lost this time, but 99% of the time any qualifier team is losing here even if they're better than the other qualifier teams. How is it fair or useful for qualifiers to be determined in half by who runs into the monsters first? If we want the best teams to do well, that also includes wanting the best challengers to qualify, and this format inhibits that. It's not like this is a radical suggestion. Tennis majors don't make every pro play in qualifiers. Football leagues don't make every team play relegation matches. Last year RLCS had top 8 automatic qualification and nobody died. There is some notion of achieving a presumptive level of performance. This gives some security to participants who do well, it gives qualifiers a next step to strive for, and it ensures that qualifiers are measured against each other to determine who deserves entry to the main event. It's better for everyone.
So what you're saying is that overall the old format allows a more "stable" competition, while the new format is kind of unfair towards good newcomers who run into big teams for the quals, become very susceptible to "flukes" because it happens even to the bests. So this new format is "unstable" compared to the old one and while seeming fairer is actually unfair and unefficient to select good new challengers
This is very true. I want to add that in league formats in other sports, good teams are playing 30-40 games until it is decided who goes up and down. Same teams play in a cup against higher and lower divisions with sometimes surprising results. Nobody ever said if Ronda beats Real Madrid, they belong in first division. If you're low and you play a big team, you are massively hyped and concentrated and might play the game of your life. There is no evidence though that you might be able to keep that level and concentration for a longer period of time, which the higher division teams proove over and over again.
@@xCNapoet aussi que les meilleurs équipes doivent pas s'ennuyer, ressentir aucun enjeu dans une compétition n'apporte pas grand chose. Il a été prouvé à plusieurs reprises que des premier match "stimulant" donnaient une meilleur préparation pour le match suivant. On parle de personnes qui passent top 1 mondiale en s'amusant, qui veulent être champions du monde et qui doivent passer 3 jours à jouer contre des mecs qui ratent la balle et d'un coup ils se retrouvent dans une position où ils n'ont plus le droit à l'erreur tellement le niveau est disproportionné par rapport aux match précédents. Il n'y a rien de plus instable pour un compétiteur de haut niveau. Et encore plus quand tu as entre 13 et 17 ans. Et en plus une fois qualifié c'est pas ouf non plus. Des équipes qui passent en 2-3 (2 défaites pour 3 victoires) peuvent aller plus loin qu'une équipe qui n'a pas perdu un seul match. Franchement les meilleurs et les plus constant en dehors des points pour les worlds n'ont vraiment aucun avantage pendant la saison. C'est ridicule. Surtout que après il va y avoir plusieurs mois de pause Bref on le sait tous c'est naze
@@xCNapo If Ronda beat Real Madrid it would be in a knockout tournament, and Real Madrid would no longer be in that tournament. Kinda like what happened here, right? Bad take
Ferra is the most professional person in the RL pro scene. Pure class by him taking on the blame and deflecting the publics criticism away from the players.
I’d like to see auto qualification. However, rather than seeing the top 8 in season points auto qualify, I’d want it to be the top 8 from the previous main event. Then have the bottom 8 from the main event fall into a Swiss closed qualifier against 8 open qual teams. That way, teams are rewarded for a good performance, have consequences for a bad performance, new teams have a fair chance to make it, and still somewhat maintain consistency for which teams we see over the course of a season.
@@09ziyad that’s an interesting idea. How would that be measured? Looking to a fresh season, would that be determined by the org or the roster of players?
Variance can be a frustrating aspect to competetive play. I'm a competitive tcg player, so I understand this as much as anyone. And it seems like variance has too much impact on the open- quals portion of RLCS in this new format. I think there are a number of solutions to help with this: 1. Make Fridays a best of 5 double elimination bracket. 2. Make Fridays a swiss format where the top 16 teams advance off of a points based system. 3. Make Fridays a combination of 1 and 2. 4. Embrace the variance aspect of competition and have extremely high prize pools for the top finishing teams.
Having the top 8 teams of the season auto qualify into the main event is a terrible take. The season is 3 regionals and one major less before worlds. The stakes are higher than ever, and I feel that should be shown throughout the season by making it more competitive to qualify for lans and the prestigious worlds tournament. As a viewer, I have been very appreciative of the current format as it has been gatekeeping teams like Shopify, Dig, Top Cougars, and now KC from being able to have BAD weekends consistently and still being able to compete for these lans and subsequently worlds. At MOST, I think the top teams from the previous regional should auto qual for different days of the open qual weekend, ex) top 8 qual for saturday, and top 4 qual for sunday. If we had this same format 2 years ago, then the trash NRG team that qualified for worlds with 9-12th finishes and one top 4 in 6 regionals wouldn't have even had the slightest chance to even make worlds. Lastly, it's NOT a suprise, and it's absolutely NOT "lucky" that we haven't seen this more often. The top teams are still playing and beating the lower teams. Literally, every other top team is winning their games wheather its in the lowers or uppers against TC and SUH,, im so tired of the crying 😭
In league formats in other sports, good teams are playing 30-40 games until it is decided who goes up and down. Same teams play in a cup against higher and lower divisions with sometimes surprising results. Nobody ever said if Ronda beats Real Madrid, they belong in first division. If you're low and you play a big team, you are massively hyped and concentrated and might play the game of your life. There is no evidence though that you might be able to keep that level and concentration for a longer period of time, which the higher division teams proove over and over again.
Also teams have to rely on a certain revenue stream if they want to keep a professsional level over and over again. Big teams wont be eager to invest any money into your game if they dont know if theyre in tomorrow and will lack professionalism on the long run.
But this does happens right now. Regionals functions as cups and the whole RLCS as a league. Upsets might happen at the cup level, but you don't see teams who rarely qualify to top 16 being a Major contender. Karmine Corp got this upset at Reg5, but still doing great on the Worlds Quals race. If there is an issue in the system, is that it's short (only 6 regionals event). If there was 9 regionals (or even 8 divided into 2 splits), upsets might not affect that much
Always appreciate that you come at things from multiple perspectives and grounded in reality while stating your preference. I think a portion of top teams should get an invite (as long as the roster is the same) and the rest come up through open quals with a swiss/round robin style tourney to narrow down who gets the spots. Definitely think this all occurred because of a combination of KC performance - as well as their opponents - on the day AND format.
My opinion is if you make it past swiss, either the top 8 or top 4 should auto quality for the next open's swiss stage. If they can make it that far, they should be rewarded for that performance it might also create opportunities for bubble teams because they won't run into the top teams during qualification stage
I have to think that yes - this is likely bad for the esport in terms of dollars. Big teams losing and missing out on playing in main events and lans does kind of directly translate to fans of those teams likely not watching and not purchasing tickets to events. Now I’m not advocating for big orgs getting handheld, but I do think that there’s a better format out there to utilize to try and mitigate the volatility for pros and the orgs they represent. And I think it would also probably benefit viewership and turnout directly as well.
@@beantreats If they're only supporting the organizations themselves and not sticking around because they want to support the game and the scene as a whole, they're missing the forest for the trees. Gen.G is my favorite NA team, you think if they got upset in Doubles I'd turn off the stream? Fuck no, I'd still be watching because it doesn't matter if my favorite team isn't playing, good Rocket League is still good Rocket League, plus not watching just because "WAAAAHH MY TEAM ISN'T IN MAIN EVENT" is exactly how the eSport is going to get dug an early grave. We barely avoided already having one grave dug because of Epic's bad decision making, we didn't come back from that just to dig that same grave ourselves because picky fans who care more about their organizations than the spirit of the game itself decided they don't want to support the scene. That selfish and entitled mentality is the thing that's going to really start the eSport on a downward spiral.
@@melodyofthelexiconWhat selfish mindset? It is okay for everyone to have their own preferences. Even your mindset of "i'll continue to watch even after my team gets eliminated" is your personal preference. Expecting others to follow your mindset is the selfish mindset.
Don't think you understand what favouritism means in this context. Are you trying to suggest psyonix/epic will interfere to qualify KC? If they win the last event to qualify they will unquestionably deserve it as they will be beating elite level teams.
RLCS like most esports should be more insular. Keep its big names, keep its big teams going. They did it better before the big change, with RLRS and stuff. The skill gap has closed big time. Its been impossible to root for a team for a while now with all the turmoil.
@@Remjbbx bro they're not bad xd they'd probably have made top 8, every team in eu struggles to make it to top 16, except vitality this qualifier they 3-0 solary but m8 was close bds too
Sadly that's also problematic as seen in the Counter Strike community. The EPL Pro League did just that. Kept all the big organizations and then had spots for others to qualify in. Well the first time they did that one of the smaller teams ended up winning because nobody had played them before whereas all the top big teams had continuously played each other. The small team did random things that full-time professionals just wouldn't do so they weren't expecting it. They were still a good team but to have a "nobody" team win the entire thing against giant orgs was weird. And that team hasn't done anything since then. This also created a bunch of controversy whereas EPL was simply trying to guarantee security for organizations who are spending the most money. The only thing Rocket League needs to do before larger main weekend events is to ensure teams have more than one day to turn themselves around. You have one bad day in this current format you're out. That can happen to anybody. Edit: Oh and I agree. I really miss the old format with RLCS and RLRS. They can essentially do the same overarching thing they are doing now with that format.
@@Kw4Mc I am not saying they are bad you misunderstanding my point. They tried something that didn't work so they learned something from this experience ans will get even better as a team
There are ways to appease both sides. I agree that there should be opportunities for up and comers. But giving Champs he chance is a little ridiculous and on top of that there really isn't a reason kcorp shouldn't be playing in a main event. Sure kcorp are at fault for their own results but the format is terrible and can kill the esport. I know a lot fo people haven't haven't enjoying it and if it continues people might stop watching and that means he espory will die.
@@kickstart3974 well none of the other top teams in EU had troubles qualifying, (not even in OQ1,2,3 and 4). Its the first time now and i dont think that this "kills" the Esports... if u lose to some of the small teams than ur just not good enough for the main event. Thats how tournaments work, u lose ur out
@@snoxh2187 kcorp is one of the best teams in EU this is the first I've they've missed a top 8 let alone a Main event. This is what is called a fluke. And if you don't think the esport will die you haven't haven't hearing the frustration from pros and orgs. Orgs are what make playing a game professionally an actual career without them the esport will die. In my opinion kcorp did enough to prove they belong in the main event by being the 1 seed last split. That makes this more of a fluke than an indication that a team "doesn't deserve main event"
It's good to see RelatingWave still grinding since 2017 he's definitely one of the OGs which hasn't retired yet and here he is with his team defeated one of the best teams in RLCS
im completely fine with how it is rn, i like the chaos of open quals being a bloodbath because it's like you're playing against everyone who's also hit play like '800 in 16 out!!!'. but i would not be opposed to introducing swiss on final day as you suggested
I believe this is what makes the format great. Underdogs and big upsets stories are the most entertaining ones. Furia won 4 regionals on this year on sam, but everybody thought this was the best regionals bc of the upset. Scrubkilla team story on the spring split last year was SO more entertaining than vitality. Even on football, nobody cares about Bayer Munchen winning another bundesliga titla, but everyone is loving the story for Leverkusen! We NEED more upsets like this
I literally watch EU events to see KC lose. That being said the team most people still regard as the best team in the world going out b4 the main event just isnt a good look. If they have a bad day fine but let it be in swiss while were all watching, just hearing KC is out feels...just icky idk how else to say it. I think this is VERY bad for the competitive scene.
Another way to fix the format could possibly be that the first qualifier of every split would be completely open, but the rest aren't. Like, you could have open qualifier 1, but then qualifiers 2 and 3 are like top 128 or top 256. If the argument is that players get so burned out from playing so many matches every qualifier, making the likelihood of losing more possible, then just limit the number of teams. Every split, anyone has the chance to play at least once in qualifier 1, and the top teams will have less excuses to not be performing with much less series to play in qualifiers 2 and 3
I would love to hear Johnny tell us his dream format. If money etc. was no issue, what EXACTLY would the format looks like. How are the events designed etc. Would LOVE to see that
My issue with this is Karmine Corps, in that form, could've EASILY gone out in Swiss, too. Then people would blame the format again. This "volatility" is what makes the season interesting. Otherwise, have a round robin season play instead of the split format and turn it into something more traditional
Yep. Good call. All this arguments are just flat out elitism and self-protection. Format A would be good. Then, go to format A. Oh, the favorite team lost to someone they shouldn't, which by statistics will always happen. Blame the format! The format isn't good for this and that. The thing is, people can't accept what "regression to the mean" stands for. They say in other sports the better teams/players don't need to qualify, which is a fucking lie. Or do people think Champions League spots are guaranteed? The whole change in the season was to make 3 QUALIFIERS for a major, and 2 majors for worlds. What is the point in auto-qualifying a team in a QUALIFIER tournament? In time, I feel bad for KC. Lots of respect for the players & coach, but this is (e-)sports and life. Randomness and bad days will always play a role, no matter what we do.
Also in time, an ideal format would be to play as much as necessary against everybody to, on average, surely conclude who is the best. But that is simply not possible, and for the entertainment point of view, would be boring, as we'd have lots of games without a final convergence.
@@saviodias3625 most people at least from what I've seen aren't as much saying karmine Corp aren't to blame for their losses and more saying the format just isn't good regardless. Of course kc has no more right than anyone else to make top 16 IN THIS FORMAT (caps for emphasis). The problem lies in that we all know KC is a good team and we know that the two teams they played are fully capable of beating a top team especially suhhh. Really there are problems with the format at every stage. The seeding, the major spots, the double elim being a thing at all (different Format for it would be better) not rewarding past performance, not making a stable environment for orgs to make money, and several I haven't mentioned here. The esport is all over the place which yes can make for some exciting matchups and upsets but at what cost? With this instability it makes being a pro not a viable career which only kills the esport. The format change was altogether unnecessary rather the previous format should have just been tweaked a little to make it better for up and comers and some other improvements. Rather than that, all we've gotten is wacky and rather poor format that only encourages chaos. All in all league play was ultimately better in deciding what teams deserve to move on to majors and worlds. Of they want to keep this format there needs to be more lives in the quals and more qualifiers. That way flukes like this dont mess up the majors.
@saviodias3625 literally everybody is saying its both KCs fault and the format is bad. Both can be true, or did you just read a bad reddit thread and come here to comment? Lmfao he literally shared the players tweets and agreed they shouldnt have lost.
Epic has to grasp as well that restricting these orgs (especially KC) has a major impact on viewership, I don't have the exact Stat but a big percentage of viewers are FR watching French orgs, the last major shows proves that, let's see if karmine doesn't make major2
I understand your point, but just thinking about the sport I think it's a great way to make it evolve faster in skills. And I think it's kind of fair, like if you can't win against small teams you don't deserve to be "safe" in the comp. I'm not claiming I know everything, I'd like to know what people think regarding what I said, where I might be wrong or expecting too much
Yeah, they need to make sure teams like KC goes to the major no matter how many time they lose because of viewership, punishing good teams for losing is stupid.
@@09ziyadpunishing a good team would be keeping a winning team out. Letting a losing team make it because they are popular is punishing the good teams. Maybe have the 4 top teams have a spot and then 16 teams can still qualify. Or just franchise and let teams buy in for millions like COD
The format is so good that ssg played geng in quarterfinals all three regionals last split and shopify have played either geng or g2 in both quarterfinals this split. While it can punish inconsistency it seems to punish other teams for the inconsistency of the top teams more often lol this seems to be the exception where a possible regional winner loses before main event.
I think the points need a reworking, considering the level of teams doesn’t exactly massively increase between the last round of qualifiers, and the main event first round of Swiss. That would’ve meant kc wouldn’t be in such a massive hole as they are now. They would be much closer to the teams in points overall which would mean they would have to do well, but not perfectly
Rocket League Theory Rocket League has switched from a 80% skill 20% mental game to a 40% skill to a 60% mental game We see that over time in rocket league the skill ceiling was high and every Tournament there was a new mechanic, strategy and play-style Over time there was a peak that was reached and in esports where players are always grinding and trying to be the best teams caught up. Especially since rocket league hasn’t made any mechanic changes to the game. (We seen this with Nrg) Now upsets are more common teams split up to get more chemistry and certain teams are getting mental coaches, and coaches might be more important now then we realize, we’re seeing a major switch of what makes a team the best team. G2 and Karmine Corp did insane until teams started to catch up to them (not skillfully) but mentally when GenG best them all of a sudden we see that teams started to notice “wait G2 is beatable” and there mental went up and Kc being a team where there mental was perfect because they never lost, we start to see a decline in there confidence while other teams mental goes up. This is why they didn’t make top 8 right after LAN, and right after that they don’t make top 16. Do you see the correlation. In LAN the team that tried to prove themselves and had overwhelming confidence beat every team (Gentalmates) there is a reason for this. In round 5 in Na quals ,every team that won a game prior beat every team that lost a game prior 🤯. OG play GenG start beating them and then they realize they’re beatable and end up winning. But the Best piece of evidence is M80. They are the Swiss merchants but we see them in peak form beating G2, GenG and end up losing to C9. There mental is blocked and it’s taking over there skill. And isn’t it crazy that after that C9 went to game 5 against G2. We’re seeing a major switch in skill and mental now and I think when teams start seeing the correlation and that any top team can beat any top team there mental will be prioritized over there skill as teams have caught up. Mental > Skill in 2024 Rocket League don’t be surprised when you see an upset.
There has to be a middle ground somewhere, maybe top 4 auto qualify and 5-12 play a swiss on Saturday to get the top 8 qual, then the bottom 8 get upper bracket in the double elim to allow new teams to challenge for the main event while giving the top 4-top 8 a chance to prove themselves
if a nenufar grows twice its size everyday, and at day 14 he occupies the whole pond, what day does it occupy half the pond? been tryna get my head around this one the just keep telling me i was wrong
Think about it this way, if it doubles in size everyday and fills the whole pond on day 14, it will have filled half of that on day 13 so 1/2, and half of that on day 12 so 1/4 and so on
I think it’s a game of inches and they did not have what it takes to qualify. They need to have to ice to come in each day and have what it takes to win. If they lose it’s part of it. Now that KC is lower teams under them have a shot. Someone will be a loser at the end of day. They are professionals and should handle the stress. The only solid argument is the sponsorship money being lost. I think the format should stay the same.
The problem with this is Top Cougars and Suhhh have proved time and time again they do not have what it takes to perform on the day. These teams peaked in one series and get rewarded, meanwhile KC have been consistently top 8 in regionals and get thrown in the bin.
@@danfr444 Well the problem with this is KC lost two in a row. So how is that consistent. Gentle m8s won the major so since they weren't consistently winning should they take away their major? KC has created a Super Team and didn't win. Otherwise why not just franchise and sell spots like CoD or Overwatch.
@@SSChef182 The Major is far more about consistency on the day, It's just like the world cup in football or any major tournament in a sport. The qualifiers for majors should not be based on daily consistency, they should reward consistency over time, again just like in any other sports. And the qualifiers for the qualifiers? Well its ridiculous that top teams even have to play in them for starters but if we are really gonna force that to happen it needs to be a format that rewards good consistent play as much as possible rather than one off peaks that won't get repeated again. Also Gentlemates were also consistently top 8 so I don't really get why you are bringing them up, in my world they would also not have to qualify for qualifiers
@@SSChef182Imo a qualifier should reward consistency, but a major doesn't have to. The point of a qualifier is to find the best teams, so rewarding consistency is the best way (even though kc lost 2x in a row, it was clearly an off day based on previous results). If the qualifiers work like they are supposed to, you should be able to do whatever you want with the format since all games would be competitive.
@@danfr444Bro that’s a bad performance the format has to do nothing in it if they did that in worlds would you say that they still deserve to tale the place of the ones who have been better ?
I'd love to see the Salt Mine format, it was easy to follow as a casual viewer and felt very fair. I would also be fine with Swiss. But for me as a casual viewer, I also don't think that double elimination is so terrible. The main reason for that is that it's so easy to follow. All you have to know is "Oh they lost once already, guess this one matters now", not how many points a team has etc. I also like the high possibility of upsets, personally it's more exciting to see underdog stories and to watch big teams not being able to relax at all. People talk about how upsets mean that a big team is missing from the tournament, but the flip side is that it also means that a less well-known team now has a chance it wouldn't have had before. Of course, these are all entertainment-related reasons. However, I also think that, at least in some way, it does reward consistent performance, because inconsistency is immediately punished hard. -- But is it true that KC had to play both matches on the same day? If so, that should be changed imo. Losing against two lesser teams is much more meaningful if you can't put the blame on a bad day. And you are of course right that it's not good for orgs and their willingness to invest in teams, and thus not good for Rocket League e-sports as a whole.
I'd say it's more to do with the missing third split. If there was a third split (or more regionals before lans), one bad day would not ruin an entire season, so double elim would not be that bad. It's because of how important each and every regional is this season, that makes the double elim questionable.
Unreal professionalism from Ferra, to take all that on his back to try and alleviate some of the pain for his players. Hope they don't get rid of him, the KC boys can definitely get back in form, they're just too talented not to.
Teams having to re-qualify every single tournament is the equivalent of the FA cup of the premier League and the top. Whatever amount of teams get into the premier League each year. No sponsors, no businesses. No endorsers would risk that. So why are we asking the rocket League world to do so?
Imo full open circuit is good from the competition standpoint, problem is there is little room for upsets and errors here. If a big team who 9 out of 10 times would win this time loses it is out and after that the team who one by little margin will get obliterated most of the times. That’s why other esports have multiple qualifiers with multiple teams, that way you have less “chance based” qualifications
The format is never to blame when you’ve not only made it through qualifying with ease before now, but you’ve won 3 of those events. Stop making excuses for inconsistency of players for the sake of viewership and org consistency
Exactly. I love the boys on KC but they just didn't show up when they were expected to, when they knew they had to, and they got punished for it. All the crying fans who now aren't going to watch EU this weekend because KC aren't there need to grow up and realize that they're part of the reason the eSport has already been struggling as much as it has because their refusal to watch is hurting Epic's bottom line at the end of the day, which will only make them pull back on more things.
I personally like the format. You should have to earn qualification each qualifier, plus they started in the upper bracket they just had to win 1 series. If you go 0-2 double elim there's no excuse when teams in the lower bracket have to play flawlessly and then possibly face a top 16 team their last series. if you want to make any "competitive" changes then make the last series a Bo7 in double elim but it's pretty long as is, given the amount of matches being played.
I'm not sure what you mean by "just had to win 1 series", KC played 7 series over 3 days and had to win 6 of them, they only went 0-2 on the last two - I agree that on paper they *should* be able to do that if they're the best, but RL is very high-variance among the top 30-or-so teams - upsets happen often, and even the best teams can have off-days or run into an underdog pop-off. I think if you can claim that 2 bad results in less than a week means a team shouldn't make the Major (and possibly Worlds as a result) when they had the first split KC had, you're welcoming a very unstable ecosystem that players and orgs both find extremely uncomfortable. It means one bad flu could cost you tens of thousands of dollars.
Same I like the format there’s no excuses for KC if you don’t show up at pro level this is what happens. They’ve qualified plenty of times with ease in the past
Barely anyone watches these games compared to even a regional so why do they have such high stakes that just don't need to be there? so counterintuitive. Should only have to do this format for the very first event of the season then top 8 in ranking points should auto qualify. This way instead of KC vs Top Cougars as a win and in game it could Suhhh vs Top Cougars as the top 8 teams will be out of the way and deservedly so.
@@jaysteveo9632people don't watch it because for the top teams it seemed to be risk-free. I think people will definetly keep a closer look at kc (and other top teams) on the next one bc of this
@@thiagobfm So sacrificing viewer numbers at the top end in regional's and major's when someone like a French powerhouse fails to qualify is a healthy outcome for this esport to you then?
Would a swiss format have even done anything, though? Losing 2 series in a row there means you would have to win 3 series in a row which for most teams is almost impossible
@@jaki75 oh i thought u were talking about the swiss and single elim. the double elim matches may or may not be streamed, depending on whos playing. If one of the teams has a twitch channel/streamer, it will be available on Liquipedia I think
Elephant in the room--Epic not being interested in automatic quals is a symptom. The problem is that their priorities no longer translate into a thriving esport. Just like they don't translate into a thriving game. It feels like we're left with the fallout from that, and as usual we just deal with it.
only slightly a format issue, but its majority a kcorp issue, if they are one of the best, they should always be beating the lesser teams. The only problem with the format, is that there are too many teams in that main event conversation. Needs to somehow be trimmed down and then turned into swiss, not double elim
Vitality, BDS, OXG, Luna (Magnifico), and M8s have made every qualifier no problem…. KC has no excuse, the team just got stuff to figure out. If you baby them then they will stay soft
You’re ignoring the issue that is KC and Cougars are both potentially top 8 EU teams on any given day. It’s a shame that they both can’t qualify because they got some of the few regional quality teams in playoffs don’t you think?
I understand the debate for 2 Swiss brackets for finding a more fair way to go from 32 teams to 16 teams. My question would be how do you decide which teams go in which bracket? For example, if they are split with 1-16 and 17-32, then 8 of possibly the top 16 teams won't make main event. Additionally, if a solid team like suhhh or Belligol has a bad day and ends up say, seed 25, then they may be able to just win out in the lower seed bracket but wouldn't in the upper seed bracket and still make the main event. Would maybe having even and odd seed brackets be the best option? The best solution, which may be very grueling for the players, would be to have a double elimination swiss bracket for the upper seeds. The teams eliminated in the upper seed bracket, so seeds 1-16, would play another swiss bracket against the lower seed bracket winners. For the initial matchups, having the lower seed bracket teams in their qualification seeding order play against the first eliminated teams of the upper seed bracket makes sense. For example, the lower seed bracket team who goes 3-0 with the best record plays the upper seed bracket team who went out 16th and so on. I like JohnnyBoi's double swiss bracket idea, I'm just unsure what's the best way to implement 2 swiss brackets at the same time and how to seed them.
Actually fairly easy, just seed the first bracket as 1-8 and 25-32 in terms of Double Elim results, seed the other bracket with 9-24. That way you get half of the intended Top 16 in each, as well as equal chances for everyone to play. Of course 17-32 will have it harder but since when has there not been difficulty for lower-rated teams You get to the top by starting at the bottom, and you just have to have the drive, skill, and perseverance to make it through.
Well, you have to remember, for a top 32, it would be 16 upper bracket teams and 16 lower bracket teams. If you're saying single elimination, would you then essentially be making the upper bracket teams lose their extra life?
@@stephenlee8532 The only way to address that particular issue without further ballooning the consistency argument is to just make Top 64, and maybe Top 128 before it, Singles instead of Doubles.
True. At some point they just got to go okay, it's single elimination, win or go home. Another way could be the top 32 follow the new worlds format. Have the upper seeds face each other and the lower seeds face each other, and the upper seed losers have another life against the lower seed winners
Statistically, if you reward consistency by removing someone from fair competition against others, you are taking samples away from the whole run. Hence, you are avoiding that competitor to be more consistent and keep proving it's more consistent than the others. This itself is a contradiction.
Bring back RLRS so that this can happen in THAT league and let the RLCS teams pre qualify based on points or something like that. Then if you grind through RLRS you can move into RLCS and have a REASONABLE chance to upset and also already have somewhat of a fanbase behind you so that it doesn’t hurt the RLCS viewership as much - plus you can still watch your team that got knocked out of RLCS in RLRS
@@truaqua not cuz of their name but because they deserve something over some random ass team when they win 3 regionals in a row… it just doesnt make sense 😂
@@BONNIE12YT Well they lost to that "random ass team" LMAO. They don't just deserve special treatment because of their past success. Their split so far has been nothing short of mediocre.
@@truaqua actually… they do. It’s actually silly how pros have to go against random ssl when we know they are top competition. Let’s be fr… kc beats them 99% of the time but the slim chance they lose just happened… now this team is just going to get destroyed in Swiss 💀 Qualifiers should be for newer competition so that the best of them can get into rlcs. Keep the big teams and bring in new deserving teams who make it through quals becuz rn quals is literally who runs into the big teams first. It’s why rlrs existed but epic ruined rlcs
I'm sick of hearing this personally, saying the format isn't fair now that a top team has lost and not qualified for main event. Nobody is talking and saying the format isn't fair for all the bubble teams who end up having to run into a giant team who's top 4 in their region in the open qualifier. Pretty much all season it's been bubble teams or teams outside of the top 10 who don't have to run into those top teams that qualify for the main event. But now that all of a sudden a team that's suppose to be considered "The best in the world" doesn't make it through the qualifier, it becomes unfair and we have to change the format??!! HOW????? Everyone has to go through it. It's best of 5 series. If you're suppose to be a top 4 team competing for a major spot you should not be losing back to back best of 5 series like this. This is on KC to be better.
Top 8 in a regional should auto qualify for the next regional. I hate the current system. Incentivizes teams to leave, incentivizes fans to not watch, and just makes it so one bad weekend can derail 3 months of work for a team.
Why are Esport organizations not investing in RLCS? Well... Anyone can have a bad day, and one bad day signifies the loss of significant investment in their part.
there's a high chance that kcorp don't make landon, meaning there are a few hundred less french people ruining my weekend in london. How is this bad for rocket league?
You can hardly do a less punitive format than a doble elimination bracket PLUS a swiss stage. But KC didn’t even reach swiss stage this time. They failed the qualifications and did a so bad performance on this split it’s just normal it has repercussions.
yea KC are supposed to never lose to such teams in quals, but at the end of the day we're all human, and it's not a bad weekend, it's literally a bad day, a bad couple games, that ruins almost the entire season.. call it what you want but the fact remains that this is bad for the esport and the organizations
There’s been a consistent double elim into Swiss into single elim top 8 all season…. There’s your consistency Johnny lol And what happens if final double elim gets changed to Swiss and a team like KC lose there as well… ?
Normally not a fan of your opinions but I definitely agree on this one. I just hope it’s not a double standard just bc it’s KC. Sucks how many teams this season have had to go through this just bc of an off day
What I love about IRL sports has always been the unpredictability of the outcomes. KC might be considered the best team in Rocket League, and they just failed to qualify. To me, that means that the system works exactly how it was meant to work. RLCS should not operate with the goal of ensuring the “best” team wins. It should operate with the goal of ensuring fair competition without removing the chaos and variance that lets powerhouse teams like KC fail to qualify sometimes. IMHO this is GOOD for RLCS because it proves the matches are fair and that even the best team has to struggle and earn the chance to win.
I agree with this completely. Not sure what the argument is. As a previous college athlete, I am confused because you could be the best athlete all year and still not qualify for nationals. You have to show up when it matters so I guess I don’t understand why this would be different.
I think it's a good thing from a competitive standpoint, but I see the concern from a financial standpoint. Investors may not want to take the risk of backing a team if even the top teams potentially get a significantly reduced reward. I don't know where the middleground is for that problem. As a viewer, I enjoy this format. If my team loses, that sucks, but you should have played better.
@@callsignjoker1 esports student and league ops guy, I can say this is why most other leagues moved to franchising. More than half of your revenue as an esports org comes from sponsorships. They'll only sponsor you if it's worth it. If you failed to qualify or got relegated from your league, it's basically death as sponsors will almost always pull out (Look at league of legends for example - The LEC gets around 60K viewers on average, the second divisions? NLC gets like... 3K on average. it's DEATH. From a financial standpoint, it turns into "we have to win, or we lose our job" for players. Most fans dismiss this as "gitgud scrub" but it's stressful and just plain unsustainable for teams and, as a knock on effect, unsustainable for leagues as a whole. Think of it this way, KC don't make london, you can guarantee the atmosphere, ticket revenue and viewership. Say what you want about KC's ultras, but Big teams losing and missing out on playing in main events and lans does kind of directly translate to fans of those teams likely not watching and not purchasing tickets to events. And Epic doesn't care about RL as it stands... it starts bringing in less and less money? They'll start killing it faster to cut their losses. The previous system was absolutely perfect. It allowed new teams to come up, and guaranteed consistently performing teams to qualify automatically. It was the perfect balance. Giant Killings like this are great competitive wise yes, but if it happens consistently I worry that KC could become another forgotten name in RLCS lore like Flipsid3 Tactics, Mock-It and Northern Gaming. And people may hate KC fans, but they would be sorely missed at events. They bring in money and at the end of the day, a league needs that to survive as well.
IMO, KCs failure from the frist major onward is due to Rise not playing well. He's a great player and does some really good plays, but the amount of missplays he fabricates will be KCs downfall if they don't fix that ASAP.
Absolutely fine it is. You have to be challenged to be consistently at the top. That is the competitor inside me. From a business perspective when you think about the organizations it's a bad thing. But idc about all that i care about good matches.
Saying you care about good matches, while supporting a format that increases the stress even more (resulting in worse performance) while also allowing weaker teams to make a run resulting for worse matches (skill imbalance) and the fact that organizations will possibly drop out due to the lower consistency further reducing competition due to lack of income..... is quite a contradiction.
You won’t get to see good matches if there’s no orgs paying to keep the players healthy and on top of their game and promoting said matches. Less orgs = less viewership = less investment from players and less prize pools = less good matches 😂
Yap yap yap. Epic will do epic things to keep the money flowing. Everyone defends their spot by not absolutely choking like clowns 2 series in a row. They're not gonna kill their own game on purpose. Also "stress" I mean come on tell me a sport that doesn't involve a large degree of stress.
@@johanjensen5674one team with immense pressure against a team with legit zero pressure is not a good match. Boring and sad and not entertaining. Go watch the swiss after shopify got knocked out and see how well the team that knocked them out did. Garauntee top cougars go 0-3 in swiss but im glad you'll enjoy their matches (oh wait you probably wont even watch them, hypocrite asshole).
The format is fine if this game generated gazillion dollars or the season was longer... but it doesn't and it's not. That's why orgs complain and it's understandable because everybody wants to watch them play. Nobody would watch SSL teams playing together if they weren't backed by some big names in the industry. The problem with the format is that the reward for doing well means far less than the punishment you could get for a bad day at the office. Back to 3 majors, increase the major participants number and the spots for each region or try a league format similar to football.
Top 8 should qualify. U have a ranking for a reason. Nfl has 1st rd bye hell nba has a play in now which supports my statement perfectly. And the nfl and nba has a fraction of the teams that qualify
Maybe the qualifiers need more work and some modifications? Yeah for sure but, for me this argument that the bracket "has to many variance" it's nonsense. Maybe, just maybe the 17th to 20th teams get to points and the problem should be resolved. And yes, most of the big for real sports, lots of big competitions, like Olympics and lots of football leagues got lots of single eliminations tournaments and everyone is fine, but why do we keep having this argument like that from nowhere this format is "not fair"?. No format would be perfect, and at the end of everything, this very big ass team, with the very best support, lots of structure tô training and some of the best players in the world lost those two games. "No but maybe the bracket should prevent this, if we do that, and such". KC was unable to beat two teams with a MASSIVE performance history difference. Every other team playing the tournament was playing by the same rules, and they started those matches knowing that if they didn't get those results it wouldn't matter. "Oh but its a shame that we will not have them on this split, they're out of the majors", then just win those two matches that you theoretically had a gigantic advantage against your adversary and make it to the next round. The point here, it's not about how the rules are off. KC performance was off, they lost those games. "But there's lots of stress, of pressure on those teams, that need to win, and etc." This is stupid, a very big high ass team, with very big names, and lots of praise, failed to get to the very least minimum position to get to next satge, and the ones who lost those games are just then. They didn't do it. Move on, dude. This discussion is fully immaturity, because some famous players screwed up big time.
The whole structure is garbage IMO. I think RL should adopt the NBA basketball format for NA and EU. With 3 10 team conferences with each team playing every team multiple times, 5 times for in conference teams and twice for out of conference teams.
Personally, I like the cutthroat. Though, I will say that if there is an insistence on keeping the double-elim format that they move from Bo5 series to Bo7 instead.
I see nothing wrong with this, just like in football, if teams don't qualify for CL they are out no matter how good they are, in football you qualify through where you place in the league tables but it's still the same format. You don't get rewarded for bad performance, they even got 2 chances and failed both times. Come back next year, past perfromances don't matter, that was then, now is what matter.
I mean honestly the this was a bad idea by rocket league all together. Orgs aren’t gonna do anything with this and when I first saw this I knew this was a mistake. Orgs gonna lose money. And I feel like the people In charge are hoping rocket league fails just to get rid of it.
Auto qualification is just the best way to restrict the emergence of new teams as that would mean epic would just pick the teams they like and make the most stats.
not at all, they won't "pick" the teams, it would just be the top8 from the event prior to this one. If anything it enables the emergence of new teams bc they won't run into the champions in the qualifying stage
@@chad2687 So basically you’re saying that they pick a top 8 and then never change it as they pick each time the top 8 of prior event. 1000000 IQ how to kill the game even faster
@@afeinchur_564 no... thats not what Im saying at all. The top 8 is just the top 8 from the last tournament, they get a spot. then, in the next tournament, there will be a new top 8, those top 8 teams will get a spot for the tournament after that and the cycle continues for each tournament
@@chad2687 So basically you’re proposing to replace a double elimination bracket plus a swiss stage by a simple elimination tournament so teams get less punished for a one time fail. Definition of madness.
@@afeinchur_564 no... its honestly baffling how you get that out of my comments. We just need the old system back, that's what Im proposing. fall split of the previous years, that was the right balance between fairness and hype
I don’t understand the argument or the problem. A good team loses and that is a problem? In most truly competitive sports, like college athletics (which are the most unbiased sports because the pros have bias for money), you have to perform at certain time of the year to make it to the national/championship events. That is just life in general. Why would rocket league be any different? If a team with less following and less funding wins then they should gain notoriety and funding for their own hard work. I don’t see how that is a negative unless you are trying to protect these top teams. True sports are cut throat and that is reality and what gives people the drive to play is that dream of being able to get to the top. Thank goodness there aren’t penalties and referees to impact the games like all the other corrupt sports. I agree their should be consistency in formats but sounds like the better teams showed up that day, the team with everything to lose froze under pressure, and the team against them had the same opportunity to lose it just hurts more for the higher profile name. That is what makes a sport a real sport. Just being a funded team doesn’t guarantee you tv time.
It is entertaining, but I dont watch the double elimination games (just like most of the rlcs viewers). So in that case its overall less entertaining because we cant see KC in the swiss stage and playoffs. I am not a fan of KC (just a fan of rise) so I am kinda sad about the likelyhood of them not participating in the next major :(
Most of the comments are focusing on whether it's fair for KC to play qualifiers or whether it would be fair for them to get to bypass qualifiers, but this is missing the point. The real question is whether it's fair for suhhh and Top Cougars to have to play KC just to qualify when other qualifying teams don't.
Sure, KC lost this time, but 99% of the time any qualifier team is losing here even if they're better than the other qualifier teams. How is it fair or useful for qualifiers to be determined in half by who runs into the monsters first? If we want the best teams to do well, that also includes wanting the best challengers to qualify, and this format inhibits that.
It's not like this is a radical suggestion. Tennis majors don't make every pro play in qualifiers. Football leagues don't make every team play relegation matches. Last year RLCS had top 8 automatic qualification and nobody died. There is some notion of achieving a presumptive level of performance. This gives some security to participants who do well, it gives qualifiers a next step to strive for, and it ensures that qualifiers are measured against each other to determine who deserves entry to the main event. It's better for everyone.
This guy gets it
So what you're saying is that overall the old format allows a more "stable" competition, while the new format is kind of unfair towards good newcomers who run into big teams for the quals, become very susceptible to "flukes" because it happens even to the bests. So this new format is "unstable" compared to the old one and while seeming fairer is actually unfair and unefficient to select good new challengers
This is very true. I want to add that in league formats in other sports, good teams are playing 30-40 games until it is decided who goes up and down. Same teams play in a cup against higher and lower divisions with sometimes surprising results. Nobody ever said if Ronda beats Real Madrid, they belong in first division. If you're low and you play a big team, you are massively hyped and concentrated and might play the game of your life. There is no evidence though that you might be able to keep that level and concentration for a longer period of time, which the higher division teams proove over and over again.
@@xCNapoet aussi que les meilleurs équipes doivent pas s'ennuyer, ressentir aucun enjeu dans une compétition n'apporte pas grand chose. Il a été prouvé à plusieurs reprises que des premier match "stimulant" donnaient une meilleur préparation pour le match suivant.
On parle de personnes qui passent top 1 mondiale en s'amusant, qui veulent être champions du monde et qui doivent passer 3 jours à jouer contre des mecs qui ratent la balle et d'un coup ils se retrouvent dans une position où ils n'ont plus le droit à l'erreur tellement le niveau est disproportionné par rapport aux match précédents.
Il n'y a rien de plus instable pour un compétiteur de haut niveau. Et encore plus quand tu as entre 13 et 17 ans.
Et en plus une fois qualifié c'est pas ouf non plus. Des équipes qui passent en 2-3 (2 défaites pour 3 victoires) peuvent aller plus loin qu'une équipe qui n'a pas perdu un seul match. Franchement les meilleurs et les plus constant en dehors des points pour les worlds n'ont vraiment aucun avantage pendant la saison. C'est ridicule. Surtout que après il va y avoir plusieurs mois de pause
Bref on le sait tous c'est naze
@@xCNapo If Ronda beat Real Madrid it would be in a knockout tournament, and Real Madrid would no longer be in that tournament. Kinda like what happened here, right? Bad take
Ferra is the most professional person in the RL pro scene. Pure class by him taking on the blame and deflecting the publics criticism away from the players.
I think its because hes the only french player speaking proper english xD
@@xCNapowhat
Fairy Peak too!
Goes to show why the teams that he coaches do so well. He's obviously treating the job with a lot of diligence and respect.
Pretty much true, but then again at the worlds celebration he acted like he won it on his own, so it's just fair if he also takes the full blame 😄
The ad before the video was some weird asmr ai bot telling me to break up with my girlfriend
Its a sign
@@benieboy5313 Curious ad to give to rocket league players dont you think?
That recommendation is in you bro, not the video. Something you need to talk about?
Did you tell her the bad news?
Why do you have ads in the first place?
I’d like to see auto qualification. However, rather than seeing the top 8 in season points auto qualify, I’d want it to be the top 8 from the previous main event. Then have the bottom 8 from the main event fall into a Swiss closed qualifier against 8 open qual teams. That way, teams are rewarded for a good performance, have consequences for a bad performance, new teams have a fair chance to make it, and still somewhat maintain consistency for which teams we see over the course of a season.
Isn't that basically last season's format but top 8 from last event rather than top 8 in points?
Auto qualifications should be based on amount of viewers an org has to make sure a lot of people watching.
@@thenayancat8802 basically. I like auto qual, and last season had something that worked somewhat well, I thought.
@@09ziyad that’s an interesting idea. How would that be measured? Looking to a fresh season, would that be determined by the org or the roster of players?
seems like a perfect solution
Variance can be a frustrating aspect to competetive play. I'm a competitive tcg player, so I understand this as much as anyone. And it seems like variance has too much impact on the open- quals portion of RLCS in this new format. I think there are a number of solutions to help with this:
1. Make Fridays a best of 5 double elimination bracket.
2. Make Fridays a swiss format where the top 16 teams advance off of a points based system.
3. Make Fridays a combination of 1 and 2.
4. Embrace the variance aspect of competition and have extremely high prize pools for the top finishing teams.
Number 2 should be top 8*
Feer vs Jonnyboi 1v1 Showmatch - AppJack commentary
Having the top 8 teams of the season auto qualify into the main event is a terrible take. The season is 3 regionals and one major less before worlds. The stakes are higher than ever, and I feel that should be shown throughout the season by making it more competitive to qualify for lans and the prestigious worlds tournament. As a viewer, I have been very appreciative of the current format as it has been gatekeeping teams like Shopify, Dig, Top Cougars, and now KC from being able to have BAD weekends consistently and still being able to compete for these lans and subsequently worlds. At MOST, I think the top teams from the previous regional should auto qual for different days of the open qual weekend, ex) top 8 qual for saturday, and top 4 qual for sunday. If we had this same format 2 years ago, then the trash NRG team that qualified for worlds with 9-12th finishes and one top 4 in 6 regionals wouldn't have even had the slightest chance to even make worlds. Lastly, it's NOT a suprise, and it's absolutely NOT "lucky" that we haven't seen this more often. The top teams are still playing and beating the lower teams. Literally, every other top team is winning their games wheather its in the lowers or uppers against TC and SUH,, im so tired of the crying 😭
In league formats in other sports, good teams are playing 30-40 games until it is decided who goes up and down. Same teams play in a cup against higher and lower divisions with sometimes surprising results. Nobody ever said if Ronda beats Real Madrid, they belong in first division. If you're low and you play a big team, you are massively hyped and concentrated and might play the game of your life. There is no evidence though that you might be able to keep that level and concentration for a longer period of time, which the higher division teams proove over and over again.
Also teams have to rely on a certain revenue stream if they want to keep a professsional level over and over again. Big teams wont be eager to invest any money into your game if they dont know if theyre in tomorrow and will lack professionalism on the long run.
But this does happens right now. Regionals functions as cups and the whole RLCS as a league. Upsets might happen at the cup level, but you don't see teams who rarely qualify to top 16 being a Major contender. Karmine Corp got this upset at Reg5, but still doing great on the Worlds Quals race.
If there is an issue in the system, is that it's short (only 6 regionals event). If there was 9 regionals (or even 8 divided into 2 splits), upsets might not affect that much
Seer knocked the confidence out of KC
lol
Always appreciate that you come at things from multiple perspectives and grounded in reality while stating your preference. I think a portion of top teams should get an invite (as long as the roster is the same) and the rest come up through open quals with a swiss/round robin style tourney to narrow down who gets the spots. Definitely think this all occurred because of a combination of KC performance - as well as their opponents - on the day AND format.
My opinion is if you make it past swiss, either the top 8 or top 4 should auto quality for the next open's swiss stage. If they can make it that far, they should be rewarded for that performance it might also create opportunities for bubble teams because they won't run into the top teams during qualification stage
I have to think that yes - this is likely bad for the esport in terms of dollars. Big teams losing and missing out on playing in main events and lans does kind of directly translate to fans of those teams likely not watching and not purchasing tickets to events. Now I’m not advocating for big orgs getting handheld, but I do think that there’s a better format out there to utilize to try and mitigate the volatility for pros and the orgs they represent. And I think it would also probably benefit viewership and turnout directly as well.
Yeah kc shouldn't be punished for losing now all views are gone.. good job epic.
I've seen multiple KC fans saying they won't watch anymore. This format really is a big L
@@beantreats If they're only supporting the organizations themselves and not sticking around because they want to support the game and the scene as a whole, they're missing the forest for the trees. Gen.G is my favorite NA team, you think if they got upset in Doubles I'd turn off the stream? Fuck no, I'd still be watching because it doesn't matter if my favorite team isn't playing, good Rocket League is still good Rocket League, plus not watching just because "WAAAAHH MY TEAM ISN'T IN MAIN EVENT" is exactly how the eSport is going to get dug an early grave. We barely avoided already having one grave dug because of Epic's bad decision making, we didn't come back from that just to dig that same grave ourselves because picky fans who care more about their organizations than the spirit of the game itself decided they don't want to support the scene. That selfish and entitled mentality is the thing that's going to really start the eSport on a downward spiral.
@@melodyofthelexiconWhat selfish mindset? It is okay for everyone to have their own preferences. Even your mindset of "i'll continue to watch even after my team gets eliminated" is your personal preference. Expecting others to follow your mindset is the selfish mindset.
@@melodyofthelexicon AMEN ❤
Losing to 3 lesser teams and still going to a major would be borderline favoritism. Maybe the bracket needs some tweaks, but so does KC.
Oxygen is a solid team, can’t blame them there
Well if it's fair for all, that means everyone else lost to 4 lesser teams, right?
Geng lost to snowmen, og, og again and m80 in the last two regionals. Do you think they deserve to make major?
Basically vitality last split lol ? Depspite that, they finished top 4 at major.
Don't think you understand what favouritism means in this context. Are you trying to suggest psyonix/epic will interfere to qualify KC? If they win the last event to qualify they will unquestionably deserve it as they will be beating elite level teams.
RLCS like most esports should be more insular. Keep its big names, keep its big teams going. They did it better before the big change, with RLRS and stuff. The skill gap has closed big time. Its been impossible to root for a team for a while now with all the turmoil.
Yes keep some of them, but like everything sometimes it needs to change for the better. Karmine will hopefully learn from this, and come back stronger
@@Remjbbx bro they're not bad xd they'd probably have made top 8, every team in eu struggles to make it to top 16, except vitality this qualifier they 3-0 solary but m8 was close bds too
Sadly that's also problematic as seen in the Counter Strike community. The EPL Pro League did just that. Kept all the big organizations and then had spots for others to qualify in. Well the first time they did that one of the smaller teams ended up winning because nobody had played them before whereas all the top big teams had continuously played each other. The small team did random things that full-time professionals just wouldn't do so they weren't expecting it. They were still a good team but to have a "nobody" team win the entire thing against giant orgs was weird. And that team hasn't done anything since then. This also created a bunch of controversy whereas EPL was simply trying to guarantee security for organizations who are spending the most money.
The only thing Rocket League needs to do before larger main weekend events is to ensure teams have more than one day to turn themselves around. You have one bad day in this current format you're out. That can happen to anybody.
Edit: Oh and I agree. I really miss the old format with RLCS and RLRS. They can essentially do the same overarching thing they are doing now with that format.
@@Kw4Mc I am not saying they are bad you misunderstanding my point. They tried something that didn't work so they learned something from this experience ans will get even better as a team
I disagree, it’s not fair to the smaller teams to allow the big names to compete just because they’re big, you have to win to qualify, no exceptions.
that's the point of qualifiers, you get complacent you lose your spot! love it!
the format needs to change then
There are ways to appease both sides. I agree that there should be opportunities for up and comers. But giving Champs he chance is a little ridiculous and on top of that there really isn't a reason kcorp shouldn't be playing in a main event. Sure kcorp are at fault for their own results but the format is terrible and can kill the esport. I know a lot fo people haven't haven't enjoying it and if it continues people might stop watching and that means he espory will die.
@@kickstart3974 well none of the other top teams in EU had troubles qualifying, (not even in OQ1,2,3 and 4). Its the first time now and i dont think that this "kills" the Esports... if u lose to some of the small teams than ur just not good enough for the main event. Thats how tournaments work, u lose ur out
Enjoy loving it while you can, with this in place the scene will die in record time.
@@snoxh2187 kcorp is one of the best teams in EU this is the first I've they've missed a top 8 let alone a Main event. This is what is called a fluke. And if you don't think the esport will die you haven't haven't hearing the frustration from pros and orgs. Orgs are what make playing a game professionally an actual career without them the esport will die. In my opinion kcorp did enough to prove they belong in the main event by being the 1 seed last split. That makes this more of a fluke than an indication that a team "doesn't deserve main event"
It's good to see RelatingWave still grinding since 2017 he's definitely one of the OGs which hasn't retired yet and here he is with his team defeated one of the best teams in RLCS
im completely fine with how it is rn, i like the chaos of open quals being a bloodbath because it's like you're playing against everyone who's also hit play like '800 in 16 out!!!'. but i would not be opposed to introducing swiss on final day as you suggested
I believe this is what makes the format great. Underdogs and big upsets stories are the most entertaining ones.
Furia won 4 regionals on this year on sam, but everybody thought this was the best regionals bc of the upset.
Scrubkilla team story on the spring split last year was SO more entertaining than vitality.
Even on football, nobody cares about Bayer Munchen winning another bundesliga titla, but everyone is loving the story for Leverkusen!
We NEED more upsets like this
Hogan mode brooo
1 that's soccer not football and 2 every pro level sports organization has byes when it comes to playoffs and ur talking a fraction of teams.
I literally watch EU events to see KC lose. That being said the team most people still regard as the best team in the world going out b4 the main event just isnt a good look. If they have a bad day fine but let it be in swiss while were all watching, just hearing KC is out feels...just icky idk how else to say it. I think this is VERY bad for the competitive scene.
Feels wrong, but it happens. Similar to Germany winning wc2014 and not even making quarter finals in 2018 and 2022.
they sure as feck aren't the best right now if they can lose 3 bo5 to lesser teams
Unlucky, go next...
Another way to fix the format could possibly be that the first qualifier of every split would be completely open, but the rest aren't. Like, you could have open qualifier 1, but then qualifiers 2 and 3 are like top 128 or top 256. If the argument is that players get so burned out from playing so many matches every qualifier, making the likelihood of losing more possible, then just limit the number of teams. Every split, anyone has the chance to play at least once in qualifier 1, and the top teams will have less excuses to not be performing with much less series to play in qualifiers 2 and 3
I would love to hear Johnny tell us his dream format. If money etc. was no issue, what EXACTLY would the format looks like. How are the events designed etc. Would LOVE to see that
My issue with this is Karmine Corps, in that form, could've EASILY gone out in Swiss, too. Then people would blame the format again. This "volatility" is what makes the season interesting. Otherwise, have a round robin season play instead of the split format and turn it into something more traditional
Yep. Good call. All this arguments are just flat out elitism and self-protection.
Format A would be good. Then, go to format A. Oh, the favorite team lost to someone they shouldn't, which by statistics will always happen. Blame the format! The format isn't good for this and that.
The thing is, people can't accept what "regression to the mean" stands for. They say in other sports the better teams/players don't need to qualify, which is a fucking lie. Or do people think Champions League spots are guaranteed? The whole change in the season was to make 3 QUALIFIERS for a major, and 2 majors for worlds. What is the point in auto-qualifying a team in a QUALIFIER tournament?
In time, I feel bad for KC. Lots of respect for the players & coach, but this is (e-)sports and life. Randomness and bad days will always play a role, no matter what we do.
Also in time, an ideal format would be to play as much as necessary against everybody to, on average, surely conclude who is the best.
But that is simply not possible, and for the entertainment point of view, would be boring, as we'd have lots of games without a final convergence.
@@saviodias3625 most people at least from what I've seen aren't as much saying karmine Corp aren't to blame for their losses and more saying the format just isn't good regardless. Of course kc has no more right than anyone else to make top 16 IN THIS FORMAT (caps for emphasis). The problem lies in that we all know KC is a good team and we know that the two teams they played are fully capable of beating a top team especially suhhh. Really there are problems with the format at every stage. The seeding, the major spots, the double elim being a thing at all (different Format for it would be better) not rewarding past performance, not making a stable environment for orgs to make money, and several I haven't mentioned here. The esport is all over the place which yes can make for some exciting matchups and upsets but at what cost? With this instability it makes being a pro not a viable career which only kills the esport. The format change was altogether unnecessary rather the previous format should have just been tweaked a little to make it better for up and comers and some other improvements. Rather than that, all we've gotten is wacky and rather poor format that only encourages chaos. All in all league play was ultimately better in deciding what teams deserve to move on to majors and worlds. Of they want to keep this format there needs to be more lives in the quals and more qualifiers. That way flukes like this dont mess up the majors.
@saviodias3625 literally everybody is saying its both KCs fault and the format is bad. Both can be true, or did you just read a bad reddit thread and come here to comment? Lmfao he literally shared the players tweets and agreed they shouldnt have lost.
Epic has to grasp as well that restricting these orgs (especially KC) has a major impact on viewership, I don't have the exact Stat but a big percentage of viewers are FR watching French orgs, the last major shows proves that, let's see if karmine doesn't make major2
I understand your point, but just thinking about the sport I think it's a great way to make it evolve faster in skills. And I think it's kind of fair, like if you can't win against small teams you don't deserve to be "safe" in the comp.
I'm not claiming I know everything, I'd like to know what people think regarding what I said, where I might be wrong or expecting too much
Yeah, they need to make sure teams like KC goes to the major no matter how many time they lose because of viewership, punishing good teams for losing is stupid.
@@09ziyadpunishing a good team would be keeping a winning team out. Letting a losing team make it because they are popular is punishing the good teams.
Maybe have the 4 top teams have a spot and then 16 teams can still qualify. Or just franchise and let teams buy in for millions like COD
They aren't "restricting" big orgs in any way, shape, or form. Every team has the same chance to make the event. KC simply wasn't good enough.
@@09ziyad You have to be a troll. You can't honestly think viewership is more important than performance...
The format is so good that ssg played geng in quarterfinals all three regionals last split and shopify have played either geng or g2 in both quarterfinals this split. While it can punish inconsistency it seems to punish other teams for the inconsistency of the top teams more often lol this seems to be the exception where a possible regional winner loses before main event.
I think the points need a reworking, considering the level of teams doesn’t exactly massively increase between the last round of qualifiers, and the main event first round of Swiss. That would’ve meant kc wouldn’t be in such a massive hole as they are now. They would be much closer to the teams in points overall which would mean they would have to do well, but not perfectly
Rocket League Theory
Rocket League has switched from a 80% skill 20% mental game to a 40% skill to a 60% mental game
We see that over time in rocket league the skill ceiling was high and every Tournament there was a new mechanic, strategy and play-style
Over time there was a peak that was reached and in esports where players are always grinding and trying to be the best teams caught up. Especially since rocket league hasn’t made any mechanic changes to the game. (We seen this with Nrg)
Now upsets are more common teams split up to get more chemistry and certain teams are getting mental coaches, and coaches might be more important now then we realize, we’re seeing a major switch of what makes a team the best team.
G2 and Karmine Corp did insane until teams started to catch up to them (not skillfully) but mentally when GenG best them all of a sudden we see that teams started to notice “wait G2 is beatable” and there mental went up and Kc being a team where there mental was perfect because they never lost, we start to see a decline in there confidence while other teams mental goes up. This is why they didn’t make top 8 right after LAN, and right after that they don’t make top 16. Do you see the correlation.
In LAN the team that tried to prove themselves and had overwhelming confidence beat every team (Gentalmates) there is a reason for this.
In round 5 in Na quals ,every team that won a game prior beat every team that lost a game prior 🤯. OG play GenG start beating them and then they realize they’re beatable and end up winning.
But the Best piece of evidence is M80. They are the Swiss merchants but we see them in peak form beating G2, GenG and end up losing to C9. There mental is blocked and it’s taking over there skill. And isn’t it crazy that after that C9 went to game 5 against G2.
We’re seeing a major switch in skill and mental now and I think when teams start seeing the correlation and that any top team can beat any top team there mental will be prioritized over there skill as teams have caught up. Mental > Skill in 2024 Rocket League don’t be surprised when you see an upset.
Schizo
Relatingwave with Endpoint was also one helluva underdog story.
I remebee watching the series when they beat bds to win the regional
I still think the formats better than having to win 2 Bo7 matches as the underdog in the finals.
There has to be a middle ground somewhere, maybe top 4 auto qualify and 5-12 play a swiss on Saturday to get the top 8 qual, then the bottom 8 get upper bracket in the double elim to allow new teams to challenge for the main event while giving the top 4-top 8 a chance to prove themselves
if a nenufar grows twice its size everyday, and at day 14 he occupies the whole pond, what day does it occupy half the pond?
been tryna get my head around this one the just keep telling me i was wrong
13
Think about it this way, if it doubles in size everyday and fills the whole pond on day 14, it will have filled half of that on day 13 so 1/2, and half of that on day 12 so 1/4 and so on
why are you asking here
I think it’s a game of inches and they did not have what it takes to qualify. They need to have to ice to come in each day and have what it takes to win. If they lose it’s part of it. Now that KC is lower teams under them have a shot. Someone will be a loser at the end of day. They are professionals and should handle the stress. The only solid argument is the sponsorship money being lost. I think the format should stay the same.
The problem with this is Top Cougars and Suhhh have proved time and time again they do not have what it takes to perform on the day. These teams peaked in one series and get rewarded, meanwhile KC have been consistently top 8 in regionals and get thrown in the bin.
@@danfr444 Well the problem with this is KC lost two in a row. So how is that consistent.
Gentle m8s won the major so since they weren't consistently winning should they take away their major?
KC has created a Super Team and didn't win. Otherwise why not just franchise and sell spots like CoD or Overwatch.
@@SSChef182 The Major is far more about consistency on the day, It's just like the world cup in football or any major tournament in a sport.
The qualifiers for majors should not be based on daily consistency, they should reward consistency over time, again just like in any other sports.
And the qualifiers for the qualifiers? Well its ridiculous that top teams even have to play in them for starters but if we are really gonna force that to happen it needs to be a format that rewards good consistent play as much as possible rather than one off peaks that won't get repeated again.
Also Gentlemates were also consistently top 8 so I don't really get why you are bringing them up, in my world they would also not have to qualify for qualifiers
@@SSChef182Imo a qualifier should reward consistency, but a major doesn't have to. The point of a qualifier is to find the best teams, so rewarding consistency is the best way (even though kc lost 2x in a row, it was clearly an off day based on previous results). If the qualifiers work like they are supposed to, you should be able to do whatever you want with the format since all games would be competitive.
@@danfr444Bro that’s a bad performance the format has to do nothing in it if they did that in worlds would you say that they still deserve to tale the place of the ones who have been better ?
I'd love to see the Salt Mine format, it was easy to follow as a casual viewer and felt very fair. I would also be fine with Swiss. But for me as a casual viewer, I also don't think that double elimination is so terrible.
The main reason for that is that it's so easy to follow. All you have to know is "Oh they lost once already, guess this one matters now", not how many points a team has etc.
I also like the high possibility of upsets, personally it's more exciting to see underdog stories and to watch big teams not being able to relax at all. People talk about how upsets mean that a big team is missing from the tournament, but the flip side is that it also means that a less well-known team now has a chance it wouldn't have had before.
Of course, these are all entertainment-related reasons. However, I also think that, at least in some way, it does reward consistent performance, because inconsistency is immediately punished hard. -- But is it true that KC had to play both matches on the same day? If so, that should be changed imo. Losing against two lesser teams is much more meaningful if you can't put the blame on a bad day.
And you are of course right that it's not good for orgs and their willingness to invest in teams, and thus not good for Rocket League e-sports as a whole.
I'd say it's more to do with the missing third split. If there was a third split (or more regionals before lans), one bad day would not ruin an entire season, so double elim would not be that bad. It's because of how important each and every regional is this season, that makes the double elim questionable.
No reason these series should prioritise entertainment because they aren’t streamed
Unreal professionalism from Ferra, to take all that on his back to try and alleviate some of the pain for his players. Hope they don't get rid of him, the KC boys can definitely get back in form, they're just too talented not to.
Where can I get your car skin from?
Teams having to re-qualify every single tournament is the equivalent of the FA cup of the premier League and the top. Whatever amount of teams get into the premier League each year. No sponsors, no businesses. No endorsers would risk that. So why are we asking the rocket League world to do so?
Imo full open circuit is good from the competition standpoint, problem is there is little room for upsets and errors here. If a big team who 9 out of 10 times would win this time loses it is out and after that the team who one by little margin will get obliterated most of the times. That’s why other esports have multiple qualifiers with multiple teams, that way you have less “chance based” qualifications
The format is never to blame when you’ve not only made it through qualifying with ease before now, but you’ve won 3 of those events. Stop making excuses for inconsistency of players for the sake of viewership and org consistency
Exactly. I love the boys on KC but they just didn't show up when they were expected to, when they knew they had to, and they got punished for it. All the crying fans who now aren't going to watch EU this weekend because KC aren't there need to grow up and realize that they're part of the reason the eSport has already been struggling as much as it has because their refusal to watch is hurting Epic's bottom line at the end of the day, which will only make them pull back on more things.
Bro didn't watch the video
I personally like the format. You should have to earn qualification each qualifier, plus they started in the upper bracket they just had to win 1 series. If you go 0-2 double elim there's no excuse when teams in the lower bracket have to play flawlessly and then possibly face a top 16 team their last series. if you want to make any "competitive" changes then make the last series a Bo7 in double elim but it's pretty long as is, given the amount of matches being played.
I'm not sure what you mean by "just had to win 1 series", KC played 7 series over 3 days and had to win 6 of them, they only went 0-2 on the last two - I agree that on paper they *should* be able to do that if they're the best, but RL is very high-variance among the top 30-or-so teams - upsets happen often, and even the best teams can have off-days or run into an underdog pop-off.
I think if you can claim that 2 bad results in less than a week means a team shouldn't make the Major (and possibly Worlds as a result) when they had the first split KC had, you're welcoming a very unstable ecosystem that players and orgs both find extremely uncomfortable. It means one bad flu could cost you tens of thousands of dollars.
Same I like the format there’s no excuses for KC if you don’t show up at pro level this is what happens. They’ve qualified plenty of times with ease in the past
Barely anyone watches these games compared to even a regional so why do they have such high stakes that just don't need to be there? so counterintuitive. Should only have to do this format for the very first event of the season then top 8 in ranking points should auto qualify. This way instead of KC vs Top Cougars as a win and in game it could Suhhh vs Top Cougars as the top 8 teams will be out of the way and deservedly so.
@@jaysteveo9632people don't watch it because for the top teams it seemed to be risk-free. I think people will definetly keep a closer look at kc (and other top teams) on the next one bc of this
@@thiagobfm So sacrificing viewer numbers at the top end in regional's and major's when someone like a French powerhouse fails to qualify is a healthy outcome for this esport to you then?
I agree that 32 to 16 should be two swiss brackets! It's a great idea!
Would a swiss format have even done anything, though? Losing 2 series in a row there means you would have to win 3 series in a row which for most teams is almost impossible
ackronick in this series was one of the most impressive performances i’ve ever seen and i been watching since season 4
Accro is not AcroniK
@@Coverra damn that’s embarrassing, did not know that 😭.
Hey, that's fair. Way too many players got similar names. Accro, chronic, acronik, aztromick, atomic, atomik, etc.
Can we get a video on the first woman to qualify for rlcs in EU since Ferra?
The way na was layed out before, i think its about time this happened
On which channel they live EU matches?
they broadcast EU and NA on the RL Esports channel
@pugswarrl I watched all streams but I didn't find KC losses
@@jaki75 oh i thought u were talking about the swiss and single elim. the double elim matches may or may not be streamed, depending on whos playing. If one of the teams has a twitch channel/streamer, it will be available on Liquipedia I think
@@pugswarrl I see, thanks for the information
@@jaki75 your welcome
Elephant in the room--Epic not being interested in automatic quals is a symptom. The problem is that their priorities no longer translate into a thriving esport. Just like they don't translate into a thriving game. It feels like we're left with the fallout from that, and as usual we just deal with it.
Just like when they removed trading, we just had to deal with it because nobody listens to us
only slightly a format issue, but its majority a kcorp issue, if they are one of the best, they should always be beating the lesser teams. The only problem with the format, is that there are too many teams in that main event conversation. Needs to somehow be trimmed down and then turned into swiss, not double elim
Vitality, BDS, OXG, Luna (Magnifico), and M8s have made every qualifier no problem…. KC has no excuse, the team just got stuff to figure out. If you baby them then they will stay soft
You’re ignoring the issue that is KC and Cougars are both potentially top 8 EU teams on any given day. It’s a shame that they both can’t qualify because they got some of the few regional quality teams in playoffs don’t you think?
I understand the debate for 2 Swiss brackets for finding a more fair way to go from 32 teams to 16 teams.
My question would be how do you decide which teams go in which bracket?
For example, if they are split with 1-16 and 17-32, then 8 of possibly the top 16 teams won't make main event.
Additionally, if a solid team like suhhh or Belligol has a bad day and ends up say, seed 25, then they may be able to just win out in the lower seed bracket but wouldn't in the upper seed bracket and still make the main event.
Would maybe having even and odd seed brackets be the best option?
The best solution, which may be very grueling for the players, would be to have a double elimination swiss bracket for the upper seeds.
The teams eliminated in the upper seed bracket, so seeds 1-16, would play another swiss bracket against the lower seed bracket winners.
For the initial matchups, having the lower seed bracket teams in their qualification seeding order play against the first eliminated teams of the upper seed bracket makes sense.
For example, the lower seed bracket team who goes 3-0 with the best record plays the upper seed bracket team who went out 16th and so on.
I like JohnnyBoi's double swiss bracket idea, I'm just unsure what's the best way to implement 2 swiss brackets at the same time and how to seed them.
Actually fairly easy, just seed the first bracket as 1-8 and 25-32 in terms of Double Elim results, seed the other bracket with 9-24. That way you get half of the intended Top 16 in each, as well as equal chances for everyone to play. Of course 17-32 will have it harder but since when has there not been difficulty for lower-rated teams You get to the top by starting at the bottom, and you just have to have the drive, skill, and perseverance to make it through.
Well, you have to remember, for a top 32, it would be 16 upper bracket teams and 16 lower bracket teams. If you're saying single elimination, would you then essentially be making the upper bracket teams lose their extra life?
@@stephenlee8532 The only way to address that particular issue without further ballooning the consistency argument is to just make Top 64, and maybe Top 128 before it, Singles instead of Doubles.
True. At some point they just got to go okay, it's single elimination, win or go home. Another way could be the top 32 follow the new worlds format. Have the upper seeds face each other and the lower seeds face each other, and the upper seed losers have another life against the lower seed winners
Statistically, if you reward consistency by removing someone from fair competition against others, you are taking samples away from the whole run.
Hence, you are avoiding that competitor to be more consistent and keep proving it's more consistent than the others.
This itself is a contradiction.
The only change that should be made is making quals BO7. KC deserves main event, BUT their opponents deserved it more this time.
Bring back RLRS so that this can happen in THAT league and let the RLCS teams pre qualify based on points or something like that. Then if you grind through RLRS you can move into RLCS and have a REASONABLE chance to upset and also already have somewhat of a fanbase behind you so that it doesn’t hurt the RLCS viewership as much - plus you can still watch your team that got knocked out of RLCS in RLRS
Lol "let them pre-qualify"
So basically give them a free pass because of their name sake.
@@truaqua not cuz of their name but because they deserve something over some random ass team when they win 3 regionals in a row… it just doesnt make sense 😂
@@BONNIE12YT Well they lost to that "random ass team" LMAO.
They don't just deserve special treatment because of their past success. Their split so far has been nothing short of mediocre.
@@truaqua actually… they do. It’s actually silly how pros have to go against random ssl when we know they are top competition. Let’s be fr… kc beats them 99% of the time but the slim chance they lose just happened… now this team is just going to get destroyed in Swiss 💀
Qualifiers should be for newer competition so that the best of them can get into rlcs. Keep the big teams and bring in new deserving teams who make it through quals becuz rn quals is literally who runs into the big teams first. It’s why rlrs existed but epic ruined rlcs
@@BONNIE12YT yeah that's cope
They still have the ability to qualify for worlds in September right?
I'm sick of hearing this personally, saying the format isn't fair now that a top team has lost and not qualified for main event. Nobody is talking and saying the format isn't fair for all the bubble teams who end up having to run into a giant team who's top 4 in their region in the open qualifier. Pretty much all season it's been bubble teams or teams outside of the top 10 who don't have to run into those top teams that qualify for the main event. But now that all of a sudden a team that's suppose to be considered "The best in the world" doesn't make it through the qualifier, it becomes unfair and we have to change the format??!! HOW????? Everyone has to go through it. It's best of 5 series. If you're suppose to be a top 4 team competing for a major spot you should not be losing back to back best of 5 series like this. This is on KC to be better.
100% correct but that won't stop Reddit from disagreeing because you said it lol
Top 8 in a regional should auto qualify for the next regional.
I hate the current system. Incentivizes teams to leave, incentivizes fans to not watch, and just makes it so one bad weekend can derail 3 months of work for a team.
Why are Esport organizations not investing in RLCS? Well... Anyone can have a bad day, and one bad day signifies the loss of significant investment in their part.
That’s crazy, and a huge reason why open quals is not the best thing for the sport. I’m not complaining, I’m just saying.
there's a high chance that kcorp don't make landon, meaning there are a few hundred less french people ruining my weekend in london. How is this bad for rocket league?
REAL
kid named landon:
What is the reasoning for Epic to move away from auto qualification spots?
In before Top Cougars win the event next weekend
0 3 in swiss stage, no way johnny said they are top 8 eu and top 4 na 😂 sounds like cope to me
@@scrubbyrubberducky johnny hates na too much ngl even tho eu are better
Then people say im crazy when i put g2 over them
prob bc KC swept EU in the first split but now same i'd also put G2 over them
You can hardly do a less punitive format than a doble elimination bracket PLUS a swiss stage. But KC didn’t even reach swiss stage this time. They failed the qualifications and did a so bad performance on this split it’s just normal it has repercussions.
This is insane unstoppable at the beginning of season makes no sense
yea KC are supposed to never lose to such teams in quals, but at the end of the day we're all human, and it's not a bad weekend, it's literally a bad day, a bad couple games, that ruins almost the entire season.. call it what you want but the fact remains that this is bad for the esport and the organizations
JohnnyBoi: *Is this bad for RL?*
Us Vitality fans: *👀Fck no* 💀
It is bad tho
You should be more worried about gentlemates lmao.
@@gregansbootstrap5352 Yeah but can’t hurt if KC is out of the picture for a bit🤷♀️
Vitality overrated
Yeh it’s good for vitality. All they gotta worry about is BDS and Gentlem8
I think they deserve to miss the event for losing back to back bo5s against weaker teams but the impact of missing the event should be less
Problem here partially is the Bo5s, it should be Bo7 for any elimination match
a third split and major could solve the weak spots of this format
There’s been a consistent double elim into Swiss into single elim top 8 all season…. There’s your consistency Johnny lol
And what happens if final double elim gets changed to Swiss and a team like KC lose there as well… ?
Top 4 EU teams should never be losing. G2/GENG aren’t struggling to make these events
the 16-32 teams in EU clear the 16-32 teams in NA is why
@@danfr444 Whatever helps you sleep at night
@@YaBoyTalent Facts are the best copium
@@danfr444 Even though the EU top players that have moved over to NA aren't doing so hot? Except for AppJack and Noly.
@@BadAtTH-cam I mean they are all making top 8s no? I'd say thats a good argument for my side not yours
Even if you arent a fan of KC, it does hurt to see them like this
Pure class from their tweets though. I do hope they can bounce back
Normally not a fan of your opinions but I definitely agree on this one. I just hope it’s not a double standard just bc it’s KC. Sucks how many teams this season have had to go through this just bc of an off day
Its not, he talked about it with Shopify and Moist as well :)
What I love about IRL sports has always been the unpredictability of the outcomes. KC might be considered the best team in Rocket League, and they just failed to qualify. To me, that means that the system works exactly how it was meant to work. RLCS should not operate with the goal of ensuring the “best” team wins. It should operate with the goal of ensuring fair competition without removing the chaos and variance that lets powerhouse teams like KC fail to qualify sometimes. IMHO this is GOOD for RLCS because it proves the matches are fair and that even the best team has to struggle and earn the chance to win.
I agree with this completely. Not sure what the argument is. As a previous college athlete, I am confused because you could be the best athlete all year and still not qualify for nationals. You have to show up when it matters so I guess I don’t understand why this would be different.
@@sblumythe thing is when a team wins 3 regionals in a row and does very well in a major, they have absolutely no reward 😂
I think it's a good thing from a competitive standpoint, but I see the concern from a financial standpoint. Investors may not want to take the risk of backing a team if even the top teams potentially get a significantly reduced reward. I don't know where the middleground is for that problem. As a viewer, I enjoy this format. If my team loses, that sucks, but you should have played better.
@@callsignjoker1 esports student and league ops guy, I can say this is why most other leagues moved to franchising. More than half of your revenue as an esports org comes from sponsorships. They'll only sponsor you if it's worth it. If you failed to qualify or got relegated from your league, it's basically death as sponsors will almost always pull out (Look at league of legends for example - The LEC gets around 60K viewers on average, the second divisions? NLC gets like... 3K on average. it's DEATH. From a financial standpoint, it turns into "we have to win, or we lose our job" for players. Most fans dismiss this as "gitgud scrub" but it's stressful and just plain unsustainable for teams and, as a knock on effect, unsustainable for leagues as a whole. Think of it this way, KC don't make london, you can guarantee the atmosphere, ticket revenue and viewership. Say what you want about KC's ultras, but Big teams losing and missing out on playing in main events and lans does kind of directly translate to fans of those teams likely not watching and not purchasing tickets to events. And Epic doesn't care about RL as it stands... it starts bringing in less and less money? They'll start killing it faster to cut their losses.
The previous system was absolutely perfect. It allowed new teams to come up, and guaranteed consistently performing teams to qualify automatically. It was the perfect balance. Giant Killings like this are great competitive wise yes, but if it happens consistently I worry that KC could become another forgotten name in RLCS lore like Flipsid3 Tactics, Mock-It and Northern Gaming. And people may hate KC fans, but they would be sorely missed at events. They bring in money and at the end of the day, a league needs that to survive as well.
IMO, KCs failure from the frist major onward is due to Rise not playing well. He's a great player and does some really good plays, but the amount of missplays he fabricates will be KCs downfall if they don't fix that ASAP.
I wonder what johnnyboi thinks of Deleted XD losing to alphakep/squishy/kofyr yesterday in NA day 2
Team that is playing bad and got kicked out by other better teams will somehow impact our enjoyment for RLCS? What is the thought process here?
I like yhe idea of more swiss clearly double elim can be lucked into qualing
If this happened to G2 the title would be "Did We Massively Overrate NA's Consistency???"
Don't care what format...you win or lose, that's life, doesn't matter who your org is. They lost, maybe next Qualifier.
Absolutely fine it is. You have to be challenged to be consistently at the top. That is the competitor inside me. From a business perspective when you think about the organizations it's a bad thing. But idc about all that i care about good matches.
Saying you care about good matches, while supporting a format that increases the stress even more (resulting in worse performance) while also allowing weaker teams to make a run resulting for worse matches (skill imbalance) and the fact that organizations will possibly drop out due to the lower consistency further reducing competition due to lack of income..... is quite a contradiction.
@@roijoleil268100%
You won’t get to see good matches if there’s no orgs paying to keep the players healthy and on top of their game and promoting said matches. Less orgs = less viewership = less investment from players and less prize pools = less good matches 😂
Yap yap yap. Epic will do epic things to keep the money flowing. Everyone defends their spot by not absolutely choking like clowns 2 series in a row. They're not gonna kill their own game on purpose. Also "stress" I mean come on tell me a sport that doesn't involve a large degree of stress.
@@johanjensen5674one team with immense pressure against a team with legit zero pressure is not a good match. Boring and sad and not entertaining. Go watch the swiss after shopify got knocked out and see how well the team that knocked them out did. Garauntee top cougars go 0-3 in swiss but im glad you'll enjoy their matches (oh wait you probably wont even watch them, hypocrite asshole).
If this happened to g2 they would say NA is in shambles now that it happened to KC RL should change the format?
There isn’t just enough spots but epic would rather leave then pay another cent to pro players that are keeping there game alive
The format is fine if this game generated gazillion dollars or the season was longer... but it doesn't and it's not. That's why orgs complain and it's understandable because everybody wants to watch them play. Nobody would watch SSL teams playing together if they weren't backed by some big names in the industry. The problem with the format is that the reward for doing well means far less than the punishment you could get for a bad day at the office. Back to 3 majors, increase the major participants number and the spots for each region or try a league format similar to football.
Rocket League is hard and the skill gap has narrowed significantly. KC will be fine. Sometimes teams need a few losses to refocus.
Top 8 should qualify. U have a ranking for a reason. Nfl has 1st rd bye hell nba has a play in now which supports my statement perfectly. And the nfl and nba has a fraction of the teams that qualify
Maybe the qualifiers need more work and some modifications? Yeah for sure but, for me this argument that the bracket "has to many variance" it's nonsense. Maybe, just maybe the 17th to 20th teams get to points and the problem should be resolved. And yes, most of the big for real sports, lots of big competitions, like Olympics and lots of football leagues got lots of single eliminations tournaments and everyone is fine, but why do we keep having this argument like that from nowhere this format is "not fair"?.
No format would be perfect, and at the end of everything, this very big ass team, with the very best support, lots of structure tô training and some of the best players in the world lost those two games. "No but maybe the bracket should prevent this, if we do that, and such". KC was unable to beat two teams with a MASSIVE performance history difference. Every other team playing the tournament was playing by the same rules, and they started those matches knowing that if they didn't get those results it wouldn't matter. "Oh but its a shame that we will not have them on this split, they're out of the majors", then just win those two matches that you theoretically had a gigantic advantage against your adversary and make it to the next round. The point here, it's not about how the rules are off. KC performance was off, they lost those games. "But there's lots of stress, of pressure on those teams, that need to win, and etc."
This is stupid, a very big high ass team, with very big names, and lots of praise, failed to get to the very least minimum position to get to next satge, and the ones who lost those games are just then. They didn't do it. Move on, dude. This discussion is fully immaturity, because some famous players screwed up big time.
yall see that Jorj got 2 wins against Gentlemates
I can only assume this means they'll be out of the top 5 on your power rankings
Well, considering that they’re not even top 16…
The whole structure is garbage IMO. I think RL should adopt the NBA basketball format for NA and EU. With 3 10 team conferences with each team playing every team multiple times, 5 times for in conference teams and twice for out of conference teams.
Personally, I like the cutthroat. Though, I will say that if there is an insistence on keeping the double-elim format that they move from Bo5 series to Bo7 instead.
I guarantee u no kc/vitality etc means lack of views...so itll 100% get changed if it hurts their pockets
I see nothing wrong with this, just like in football, if teams don't qualify for CL they are out no matter how good they are, in football you qualify through where you place in the league tables but it's still the same format. You don't get rewarded for bad performance, they even got 2 chances and failed both times. Come back next year, past perfromances don't matter, that was then, now is what matter.
Looks like team viltaltry got a chance again
Wait now it matters since it’s Karmins korp but it didn’t when it was Shopify or dig..
I mean honestly the this was a bad idea by rocket league all together. Orgs aren’t gonna do anything with this and when I first saw this I knew this was a mistake. Orgs gonna lose money. And I feel like the people In charge are hoping rocket league fails just to get rid of it.
Auto qualification is just the best way to restrict the emergence of new teams as that would mean epic would just pick the teams they like and make the most stats.
not at all, they won't "pick" the teams, it would just be the top8 from the event prior to this one. If anything it enables the emergence of new teams bc they won't run into the champions in the qualifying stage
@@chad2687 So basically you’re saying that they pick a top 8 and then never change it as they pick each time the top 8 of prior event.
1000000 IQ how to kill the game even faster
@@afeinchur_564 no... thats not what Im saying at all. The top 8 is just the top 8 from the last tournament, they get a spot. then, in the next tournament, there will be a new top 8, those top 8 teams will get a spot for the tournament after that and the cycle continues for each tournament
@@chad2687 So basically you’re proposing to replace a double elimination bracket plus a swiss stage by a simple elimination tournament so teams get less punished for a one time fail.
Definition of madness.
@@afeinchur_564 no... its honestly baffling how you get that out of my comments. We just need the old system back, that's what Im proposing. fall split of the previous years, that was the right balance between fairness and hype
I don’t understand the argument or the problem. A good team loses and that is a problem?
In most truly competitive sports, like college athletics (which are the most unbiased sports because the pros have bias for money), you have to perform at certain time of the year to make it to the national/championship events. That is just life in general. Why would rocket league be any different?
If a team with less following and less funding wins then they should gain notoriety and funding for their own hard work. I don’t see how that is a negative unless you are trying to protect these top teams. True sports are cut throat and that is reality and what gives people the drive to play is that dream of being able to get to the top. Thank goodness there aren’t penalties and referees to impact the games like all the other corrupt sports.
I agree their should be consistency in formats but sounds like the better teams showed up that day, the team with everything to lose froze under pressure, and the team against them had the same opportunity to lose it just hurts more for the higher profile name. That is what makes a sport a real sport. Just being a funded team doesn’t guarantee you tv time.
It is entertaining, but I dont watch the double elimination games (just like most of the rlcs viewers). So in that case its overall less entertaining because we cant see KC in the swiss stage and playoffs. I am not a fan of KC (just a fan of rise) so I am kinda sad about the likelyhood of them not participating in the next major :(