First full run up to temperature and working out the KW output into the water. Any suggestions for follow up videos please leave a comment. www.alibaba.com/product-detai...
Seems exactly like my Eberspatcher D5w units. It's originally set up for engine pre heaters so set for 84c thermostat opening for full engine heating. The Eberspatcher fires up again at 74c if memory serves me right. If you have more water in the system so doesn't rise as quick, it should run in boost then phase down to low power at approx 80c. I built a a heating system for my garage using a Eberspatcher D5w. It's contained in one housing at the bottom, I have above it a bus cab heater matrix with a fan connected to a thermo switch set at 40c, also the pipe work tees off and feeds 2 large double radiators. It works a treat. If I run the fan at 50%, it keeps the heater burner running in low power. While it's on, it will run the water pump too. Yet another great video, keep up the good work. Especially love the end bit. Right let's take it apart 🤣
We have a similar set up with a webasto thermo top, it's in an unheated extension and it feeds 3 towel heaters. Brings a previously cold bathroom upto a possible 24c if its left alone. Great little things!
@@AlabamaTree unfortunately not but if I get around to it, I will post it up. I run social media for another unrelated topic so usually tied up with that
Great stuff again David - the Eberspacher equivalent usually runs a small heating system ( 2 pipe ), and a hot water system via a calorifier. It would be interesting to see how this copy would cope with that.
David gives a link to his source in the video notes. Here it is: www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Parking-Liquid-Water-Heaters-16KW-12V_60833537492.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.41413.35.ccb51df8HBBKWG
Bear in mind that regular gas central heating boilers are also rated by their input power, not output. There are always losses to exhaust flue gasses, even with condensing boilers. Add in casings and pipe loss, and it drops even more. The plus side of those is that they are losing heat indoors, whereas flue gasses are just heating your garden.
Happy New Year David. It has to be a simulation of underfloor heating this time. How about a zig sheet of of pipework clipped to a full sheet of 12mm plywood. Maybe 20 to 30m of pipe. Polystyrene insulation on the underside and some vinyl to mimic the usual camper floor build up. Or, is 80 degrees just too damn hot for that sort of thing. All the best Johnnie
I don't know why you don't have a 100 thousand subscribers. Oh and I bought an 5 - 8kw Chinese heater and it comes with a wireless controller and a cone shaped receiver. I won't be installing it in my Vivaro till Spring so hopefully it will work.
Nice video! In this kind of experiment you should take care of all details. Water loses heat to the environment and you should take that into account. The hoses also lose heat. If these two things would be isolated, your calculations might be different. Anyway, a very nice device for off-griders and people sick of state controlled central heating. I should have known about it when I bought an air heater...
Wow, thats pretty impressive for 6 minutes! Id be impressed with that sort of temp in 20mins, mostly looking at replacing the gas hot water heater in a Motorhome, so the water jacketed space heater would prob be a better option
Interesting! When you get your definitive set up completed. Correct pipe sizes etc etc. I would suggest fitting a central heating radiator & then start to do comparative tests.I.E. Once you have arrived at a set of figures for plant efficiency, try lagging the pipes to see what difference that makes. Varying water flow rates, EGR cooler waste heat recovery & see just how much you can eek out of the fuel consumed.
I agree. I'd like to see that 50% efficiency to raised. To think that half of the fuel burned wasn't transferred into heating the water the egr would be very good way to preheat the water before going into the actual heater.
I’d like to see you scavage some of that heat from the exhaust also! I’d like to see that water used in a mock up in floor heating. Radiant heat would be huge in a cottage if you could use this as a dual purpose heater.
Thank you for your review David; it was very informative. My question is ; do these Chinese copy heaters cater for the engine preheater market? The Thermo Top C from Webasto was a preheater added to a major of diesel engined vehicles for this very purpose. As such they added additional programming and wiring to trigger a vehicle internal blower at 30 degrees C so that heat could be directed to defrost the vehicle's windscreen and warm the vehicle cabin area as well as warm the engine. A Webasto's wiring harness comes with several relays to accommodate this. As has been pointed out by another respondent, Webasto also include in the program a reduced heat mode when the coolant temperature reaches 74 degrees C and powers off at 77 degrees C. This is short of when a vehicle's thermostat opens so as to keep the heat in the engine and not into the cooling radiator. If the unit is still switched on the water pump will continue to circulate water through the system. Should the temperature of this coolant water drop to 68 degrees C to furnace will restart.
be goo dfor you to test silencing the exhaust, that seems to be my biggest bugbear...sounds like a jet. Ideas: Deflection box, sound proofing box muffled.. multi silencers... metal deflection plates on the end... etc.
Would love to see your last idea of a shower attached, this must be beefy enough to run one. See what flow rate you can get before the water gets too cold.
Again, love the videos. A question, do you know how much pressure one of these things can handle. Car coolant pressures run about 15 lbs/sq. in. as I understand it. Might these be able to handle 60? like the pressure in a camper van water system? Thanks so much.
Excellent video! In the future I'd like to see a simple exhaust gas heat recovery device that is universal to these diesel type heaters. I think you were on the way to making one previously and it was interesting. Unfortunately the heat exchangers from those foreign cars are not available here in the USA for cheap purchase, but an easy homemade one should be able to be designed. Another fun experiment would be to bend a copper line in a coil around the exhaust of the heater, and send the preheated water through and check the results as well as come up with experiments. I'm wondering if it would flash it to steam or boil it. Until next time
I'm more interested in how efficient the 16kW works on a larger volume of water for a portable hot tub. I suspect the heater is a lot less efficient at startup. Could you start with 3x volume & switch to a new body of water after 15min and start measurements from that point on? As always, love the videos
@@BrianJHall-wl4bf Not... very wasteful, instant water heaters are actually very wasteful as they have to have higher element temperatures and high currents or heat input, and more heat leaks away there. A larger water heater that is well insulated is very efficient. We even have heat pump water heaters these days which are vastly more efficient but the benefit won't be as much as you think unless you actually *use* a lot of hot water.
Would be interesting to compare that power rating to an Eberspächer and/or a Webasto to see of they have any better efficiency and if they are rated the same. Amount of diesel burned or amount of heating power. I have some name brand heaters I could test out a little had I only have a workshop or shed of some kind. My heaters: -Spheros/Webasto Thermo 300 -Webasto DBW 2016 -Eberspächer D5Z-H -Vintage Eberspächer 4kw water heater from the fifties made in West Germany 🙂 -Eberspächer D1L Turns out you are not the only one getting a hard on from diesel heaters around here 😇🤣 I also had the same idea as you using cheap egr coolers to get some more heat out of the exhaust, they are quite cheap from the Baltic states and Poland
Would be great to see it in a practical application...either a central heating system or in combination with a hot water supply (boiler)... Would be also great to learn which of these chinese heater units can be used for, what the pros and cons are and what there limitations are...
I've been waiting for ages for that dave ..I'm wanting underfloor heating in my truck motor home..now I know a bit more about these diesel heaters cheers Mara
Finally got my 8kw heater. I will be making a mod in the next few weeks. Hoping to steal a lot of heat from the casing. What do you use as a FLIR sensor?
Maybe the exhaust gas temperature is reading in *F? It looks like the other temperatures light up the "*C" light on the controller when reading them, but the EGT doesn't.
Hi David, how would it work with any of the diesel heaters, either air or air/water. If the exhaust was routed through a heat exchanger/ capture vessel to act a a pre-heater so as to obtain the most practical energy from the diesel fuel? I’ve just bought a 5k watt air heater for my shed. Great channel Cheers.
Nice test, got a few of the 8kW air heaters, but that water heater looks much more useful....your maths look OK to me, considering measurement errors and radiated heat loss from the non insulated water system, at 300+ degrees EGT you certainly below 90% efficiency, probably more like 85%. The EGT display is useful for indicating when it needs cleaning.
Thanks for this David I have been looking forward to seeing some hydronic clones hit the market. 50% efficient, not sure how that compares to the 5kw eberspacher and webastos I am used to. One obviously disappointing feature that would really rule it out for motorhome use if coupled to a heater matrix or radiators appears to be no low speed continuous modulation. To go through continuous startup and shutdown cycles will be a big hit on any battery bank due to the glow plug draw each time it fires up and shuts down. It’s clearly designed as primarily an engine block heater. Please share current draw info etc at a later date.
Devices are always rated by total used energy, a three kw fan heater consumes three kw at the source, however efficiency plays the biggest key here, this heater is very nearly consuming the rated 16 kw, however it has intrinsic energy loss in the from of a poorly designed or manufactured heat exchanger, and as David has pointed out, basically chucks most of the energy out of the exhaust, it is still however a 16issh kw heater,
Wouldn't it only go through start up and shut down once up to temp? If youre running a few rads/ufh/water heater, you'll get heat loss, so the water will tale longer to get to temp and hopefully wouldn't reach it so in theory, it shouldn't cycle
Great vid testing, where did you buy the heater from.. also could set up via heat exchanger.. could you Adjust the temperature sensor or upgrade cut out temperature say 95 degrees?? I have a 9 kw wabasto heater would like more kw. Cheers David 👍🔥
I would like to see the exhaust connected to some copper pipe that is coiled in a tank of water and the gasses heating the water. Obviously i dont mean the gasses going into the water, but having a exit. The heat of the exhaust will be used. Maybe insulate the exposed exhaust leading up to the tank with some high temperature wrap to stop any heat loss.
Hey, I'm trying to work out / design a recirculating shower system. I want to use something like this to circulate glycol in a closed loop system. Run it through a liquid to liquid heat exchanger and then have the water for the shower pass through the other side of the heat exchanger. What I need to know is... If you keep this switch on does it fire up to maintain the temp? Can the temperature be raised higher than 85c? This would be very invaluable to me to know so I can choose the right heater. Cheers matey.
How fast will it heat up a stone cold 7L iron block diesel? I think the latent heat would have to included in your calculation as it did consume fuel in the begining just to be released later....
bear in mind that some of the heat was radiated into the room from the hot canister and the uninsulated hoses. Still a great idea as back up heat at home. Make a longer exhaust so it gives more heat of to the house then
@david McLuckie How noisy is this? I'm trying to figure out if its too noisy for use in a campervan and if it'd break campsite noise limits or if it'd be ok, I'd appreciate and info and if they can be scilenced (or at least noise dampened)
my VVKB heater says it is 12kw and it gets up to an exhist temp of about 170, i need ot do this test on it.. ive thought about a secondary heat exchanger.. since i use this for cabin heat.. I wonder if there is enough flow to run the exhaust through a copper heat exchanger and blow a fan over it.. or if doing that would end up carboning up the passages in a heat exchanger.. since these things always seem to smoke a bit on startup.. esp when its below -5c outside..
AIR INTAKE BOOSTER FAN IDEA - As longer exhaust pipe length and longer ductwork on the air heaters soot things up - could you do a test with a booster blower fan on the combustion air intake? Also, another booster fan blowing over the 3-inch intake over the fins and out the warm airside. Charging the 3-inch intake will also make the combustion turbo spin with less resistance. The purpose of this test is to prevent long exhaust runs / or long ductwork causing carboning up unit. Also, long exhaust runs with the copper pipe will help in heat recovery setups. Too much-forced air could act like a blacksmith bellows, but overheating should not occur as the heat sensor should shut the unit down? This is going to be a balancing act to exact heat from every drop of diesel. The unit is very efficient compared with the big oil suckers we have in our American homes - with heat exhaust recovery perfected these units will cut our oil usage to unbelievably low consumption.
Very interesting thank you :) Something to think about is how much water flow and pressure do you need to run the shower head? I'm thinking you will need a bigger container for a 10 minute fast shower. Will you be heating a large container then have the shower and then fill it back up or will you have a ball valve to fill it up as it's being used, how much cold water goes in vs how fast it can heat as its being replaced by the cold water? 4kw at 240v can give you warm water but the pipes are under mains water pressure but throttled back as you don't need mains pressure at the head... So at what pressure do you need to run a shower head is needed
I was going to try more than example. Mains pressure from a hose into the heater then adjust the output flow to the shower head, much like a domestic electric shower does. Second would be a tank of water pre heated and then refilled and heated as the shower uses water.
Your videos are great! I have been eagerly awaiting this particular one. I have a couple of questions. First, what is the solution to the 24vt pump problem? Is there a 12vt pump that works available? Second, could you provide some dimensions, length, width and height? I am considering one of these for a van conversion and fit is always an issue. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
Which heater is this? I am looking for something like this that has a switch and controls so I can compensate for altitude. They all seem to have dumb wireless remote controls...
I learned david that the exhaust gas temp reads in degrees f. and the water temp in degrees c, I also learned the communications protocol for it and ots pretty easy! i think ill have no issue with controlling it using my own controller.. the water temp is settable and all too.. other than this thing being noisy as heck I think it will be a decent little heater
@@DavidMcLuckie if nothing else this controller has such a dim display you can only see at night.. the communication protocol is rather archaic.. it is 5 volt TTL level 9600 baud, N81 data stream. 2 wires (TX / RX), each record starts with an 'ST' and ends with an 'OV' and uses a industry standard CRC-16 block check..
Well that's interesting. I have a small duck pen with a 120 gallon pond and we're currently using an electric heater to keep it from freezing over. I'm wondering if one of those along with a couple more 100 watt solar panels( I have 1 now for a 12v water pump) would do the job??? Or maybe I can skip the diesel part and add in a 12 volt heater run off the panels.
Your electric is 100 percent efficiency. This thing is probably maximum of 70 percent efficient if that unless you can capture the exhaust heat. Even then about the maximum you can get is 97 percent efficient
I kept coming up with 8.6kw where i was look i did come up with 9.1kw on a immersion heater calculator witch has the option of the tank size and ambient air temp witch i guessed from a generic amazon water tank and ambient tamp of 9°c
Can we have a step by step instal , i have now ordered one, cheers for the tip, for boat hotwater, shower etc. If you could , that would be great. Plus , Ali ba ba may use it and you,ll get more hits. There int one currently, i recon these will become as popular as the ai blowers. what did you pay for yours?
Make a copper tube coil around the heat exhaust pipe (1 meter) with slowly flowing water (Shower head) that must be a lot more efficient to heat up 10 Liters of water if recycled back through it. I guess it will use only 50ml of diesel and takes about 20 minutes, i bett.
Would you do a setup where you run both the air heater and water heater at the same time but with 1 fuel line from the fuel tank and tee's? I'm installing both and wondered if the fuel line will need to be bigger up to the tee and 2 check valves fitted to stop and draw from each other.
So the heaters finally arrived and a temporary setup done. Heats water extremely quick but overshoot the target temp by a mile. Set to 80°C and I have to manually shut down at 96°C to avoid boiling the water. Ive emailed the supplier so I'm hoping they'll get back to me but would you say a sensor is at fault?
I would like to use this as a additional heater in my hot tub in the winter months, for me personally Diesel is alot cheaper than electricity. Would that be a possible option, ive never dealt with these types of heaters before. Essentially I would keep my hot tub plugged in to circulate, but use this as the main heating source, winter temperatures here drop down to average -20c
My one only goes up to 75 degrees. And I seem to have a faulty pump to so it won't run for long. The pump clicks still but decides just not to push any diesel through. I have no idea where to get a replacement quickly as I need to put it in my van in the next week 😫
HI DAVID GREAT VID AS ALWAYS WHAT IS THIS WATER HEATER REALY FOR IS IT FOR WATER RADS LIKE ON A BOAT OR IS IT ONLY FOR HEATING YOUR WATER BLOCK? ON A VAN/CAR? NO GOOD FOR A WATER HEATER IN A VAN FOR SHOWERING ANYWAY KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. FROM SKEGNESS UK
They are advertised as parking heaters for heating engine coolant while heating the vehicle. But that doesn't mean you can't heat up other liquid based things with them if you want to. :)
Maybe they are rating it from the fuel rate that is combusted as opposed to the actual heating capacity. I'm wondering if the standard diesel air heaters are rated using a similar thought process in their ratings. Looking forward to the teardown :) Also does it need to be water in the tank or can it handle a standard automotive coolant and if so that opens up more possibilities of radiant heating etc.
I wonder if the results were 14kw instead of 16kw because you included the slower rates of the ramp up and cool down times at each end of the test? Maybe fire it up and get it running at full capacity, then mark the fuel consumption only for, say 5min of running flat out. Then maybe the consumed fuel will look more like 16kw. I'm sure that the marketing folks of the heater would only want to rate it as or indicate the maximum output the heater can do. And I too would love to see you try to recover more heat from the exhaust.
I would like to see a video of yourself in your shed not breathing out what looks like mist, I watch not just your videos but others trying to come to the conclusion that these heaters do exactly what they say and heat up the air around you, I recently bought a 8kw all in one heater although not received yet it has got to be better than my motorhome gas fired heater I already have but not dampen the air in my motorhome.
Particulates. That's why you can see my breath more in the workshop. They are coming from the burning fuel giving the moisture in the air something to stick to so you can see my breath. If the exhaust pipe was vented outside like it would be in normal operation this wouldn't be the case. So rest assured you won't get the same wet heat from a diesel air heater that you would from a gas fire.
@@DavidMcLuckie thanks for replying pal, that's good to hear as I have just bought one and logical explanation, great videos with lots of information..
I am using the air version 5 KW. to heat a 20' X 20' workshop. Also, have them in my basement blowing hot air where I want it for the ultimate zone heating - cut a hole in the bathroom and kitchen floors - use the car style remote - works great and only pennies for fuel oil! The cheapest ones are as good as the pricer ones.
@@DavidMcLuckie yeah I dont dig that.. I had hoped the water heater (16kw) had different power levels or would throttle.. the real webasto units throttle.. I have a TSL-17 5kw real webasto in my other bus and as it gets closer to temperature it throttles down... my current VVKB heater runs 100% then shuts off.. heats the water between 60 to 80c on the old circuit board and 70 to 90c on the newer motherboard they sent me.. the controller on my VVKB has a water temp setting but the heater ignores it.. I dont know on the 16kw you have if it has multiple power settings? I ordered one and its been lost in shipping.. so they sent a new one and thats also lost in shipping now.. VVKB agreed to replace my broken heater and guess what it got lost in shipping but has been found.. I'd love to find a waster heater that can have different output levels.. Maybe ill have to build my own motherboard!
@@DavidMcLuckie Great stuff. I'm loving your series on these devices. I own 2 air heaters the 2KW and the "5" KW versions and they've worked flawlessly.
@@DavidMcLuckie Whoops, was clicking on wrong video. Quick question though, does the heater require water to be circulating constantly? If the water was static in the hoses, would it overheat?
I just received my water heater. I did get the 12 volt fuel pump. It is throwing an error code. 003 fuel pump. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Fuel pump clicks once then stops. If I test the fuel pump with 12 volt should the pump stay on or does it get pulses from controler?
@@DavidMcLuckie thank you. I had mixed up the water pump and fuel pump.same connection. Going figure. Working fine now. Pretty loud. Do they make a muffler or silencer for it.
![ลักพาตัว เอาลูกเอิร์นกลับมา...!! [เอิร์นไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f4NVKlZ5qkk/mqdefault.jpg)
David the manufacturers are using your video to demonstrate their product, praise indeed.
the shower test sounds like a good practical test, how hot at continuous cold water feed
great channel by the way
Recover the heat from the exhaust and you are golden. Happy New Year.
Maths was spot on David....it’s roughly 50% efficient. Great video yet again keep up the good work m8. Cheers Richard
Seems exactly like my Eberspatcher D5w units. It's originally set up for engine pre heaters so set for 84c thermostat opening for full engine heating. The Eberspatcher fires up again at 74c if memory serves me right. If you have more water in the system so doesn't rise as quick, it should run in boost then phase down to low power at approx 80c. I built a a heating system for my garage using a Eberspatcher D5w. It's contained in one housing at the bottom, I have above it a bus cab heater matrix with a fan connected to a thermo switch set at 40c, also the pipe work tees off and feeds 2 large double radiators. It works a treat. If I run the fan at 50%, it keeps the heater burner running in low power. While it's on, it will run the water pump too. Yet another great video, keep up the good work. Especially love the end bit. Right let's take it apart 🤣
Paul Rennie have you got a TH-cam channel documenting this build?
We have a similar set up with a webasto thermo top, it's in an unheated extension and it feeds 3 towel heaters. Brings a previously cold bathroom upto a possible 24c if its left alone.
Great little things!
@@AlabamaTree unfortunately not but if I get around to it, I will post it up. I run social media for another unrelated topic so usually tied up with that
Great stuff again David - the Eberspacher equivalent usually runs a small heating system ( 2 pipe ), and a hot water system via a calorifier. It would be interesting to see how this copy would cope with that.
Another good one David 😃👍 Happy New Year to you too!
Happy 2020! Thanks for the very in formative video! It will be interesting to see the guts of this water heater in your upcoming teardown video! 👍
Was it a webasto heater or china?
@@jurajgacho1136 it's a China one, 16kw or really 14
Some link?
@@jurajgacho1136 am sure he said he got it off alibaba
David gives a link to his source in the video notes. Here it is: www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Parking-Liquid-Water-Heaters-16KW-12V_60833537492.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.41413.35.ccb51df8HBBKWG
I'm going to use that "Hallo" as my alarm clock sound. Heck, THAT would wake you up!
Bear in mind that regular gas central heating boilers are also rated by their input power, not output. There are always losses to exhaust flue gasses, even with condensing boilers. Add in casings and pipe loss, and it drops even more. The plus side of those is that they are losing heat indoors, whereas flue gasses are just heating your garden.
Happy New Year David.
It has to be a simulation of underfloor heating this time.
How about a zig sheet of of pipework clipped to a full sheet of 12mm plywood.
Maybe 20 to 30m of pipe.
Polystyrene insulation on the underside and some vinyl to mimic the usual camper floor build up.
Or, is 80 degrees just too damn hot for that sort of thing.
All the best
Johnnie
Brilliant as always.
I don't know why you don't have a 100 thousand subscribers. Oh and I bought an 5 - 8kw Chinese heater and it comes with a wireless controller and a cone shaped receiver. I won't be installing it in my Vivaro till Spring so hopefully it will work.
The range on that controller is supposed to be excellent. I haven't had a chance to play with one yet.
Very interesting. I had actually considered doing a hydronic baseboard heater in a garage with one of these, but the air heaters are way cheaper.
Nice video!
In this kind of experiment you should take care of all details. Water loses heat to the environment and you should take that into account. The hoses also lose heat. If these two things would be isolated, your calculations might be different.
Anyway, a very nice device for off-griders and people sick of state controlled central heating. I should have known about it when I bought an air heater...
Wow, thats pretty impressive for 6 minutes! Id be impressed with that sort of temp in 20mins, mostly looking at replacing the gas hot water heater in a Motorhome, so the water jacketed space heater would prob be a better option
Thank you, i just orderd one an i am going to instal in ouer boat!
Interesting! When you get your definitive set up completed. Correct pipe sizes etc etc. I would suggest fitting a central heating radiator & then start to do comparative tests.I.E. Once you have arrived at a set of figures for plant efficiency, try lagging the pipes to see what difference that makes. Varying water flow rates, EGR cooler waste heat recovery & see just how much you can eek out of the fuel consumed.
I'd like to see the liquid cooled egr attached and see what kind of energy is recovered from the exhaust
I agree. I'd like to see that 50% efficiency to raised. To think that half of the fuel burned wasn't transferred into heating the water the egr would be very good way to preheat the water before going into the actual heater.
One and two egrs in series. Plenty of heat to be saturated going out. :P
I’d like to see you scavage some of that heat from the exhaust also! I’d like to see that water used in a mock up in floor heating. Radiant heat would be huge in a cottage if you could use this as a dual purpose heater.
Thank you for your review David; it was very informative.
My question is ; do these Chinese copy heaters cater for the engine preheater market? The Thermo Top C from Webasto was a preheater added to a major of diesel engined vehicles for this very purpose. As such they added additional programming and wiring to trigger a vehicle internal blower at 30 degrees C so that heat could be directed to defrost the vehicle's windscreen and warm the vehicle cabin area as well as warm the engine. A Webasto's wiring harness comes with several relays to accommodate this.
As has been pointed out by another respondent, Webasto also include in the program a reduced heat mode when the coolant temperature reaches 74 degrees C and powers off at 77 degrees C. This is short of when a vehicle's thermostat opens so as to keep the heat in the engine and not into the cooling radiator. If the unit is still switched on the water pump will continue to circulate water through the system. Should the temperature of this coolant water drop to 68 degrees C to furnace will restart.
_Question? How's that cover for the fuel pump? I just order a couple for myself, are they soft and does it keep the noise down? Thanks!_
The noise! That’s astonishing imagine sleeping in the same room as that
Why would you sleep with a water heater firing away? That's what the air heaters are for 🙂
I wonder how large an amount of water that would heat. Maybe pool sized? Happy 2020! VERY informative videos, keep up the great work!
be goo dfor you to test silencing the exhaust, that seems to be my biggest bugbear...sounds like a jet. Ideas: Deflection box, sound proofing box muffled.. multi silencers... metal deflection plates on the end... etc.
Brilliant video thank you 😎👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Would love to see your last idea of a shower attached, this must be beefy enough to run one. See what flow rate you can get before the water gets too cold.
Again, love the videos. A question, do you know how much pressure one of these things can handle. Car coolant pressures run about 15 lbs/sq. in. as I understand it. Might these be able to handle 60? like the pressure in a camper van water system? Thanks so much.
Excellent video! In the future I'd like to see a simple exhaust gas heat recovery device that is universal to these diesel type heaters. I think you were on the way to making one previously and it was interesting. Unfortunately the heat exchangers from those foreign cars are not available here in the USA for cheap purchase, but an easy homemade one should be able to be designed. Another fun experiment would be to bend a copper line in a coil around the exhaust of the heater, and send the preheated water through and check the results as well as come up with experiments. I'm wondering if it would flash it to steam or boil it. Until next time
Yes! I'm thinking of ways to extract some of that heat.
Thanks for a interesting video 👌
I wonder how accurate that "flow meter" is? Hope to see a small test of it
I'm more interested in how efficient the 16kW works on a larger volume of water for a portable hot tub. I suspect the heater is a lot less efficient at startup. Could you start with 3x volume & switch to a new body of water after 15min and start measurements from that point on?
As always, love the videos
It certainly got that water up to temperature pretty quick, makes me wonder how fast it'd be with a full sized hot water tank... :D
Here in the USA, we have 40-gallon water tanks and bigger - very wasteful - it would be very interesting to have this unit plumbed in.
@@BrianJHall-wl4bf Not... very wasteful, instant water heaters are actually very wasteful as they have to have higher element temperatures and high currents or heat input, and more heat leaks away there. A larger water heater that is well insulated is very efficient. We even have heat pump water heaters these days which are vastly more efficient but the benefit won't be as much as you think unless you actually *use* a lot of hot water.
Would be interesting to compare that power rating to an Eberspächer and/or a Webasto to see of they have any better efficiency and if they are rated the same. Amount of diesel burned or amount of heating power.
I have some name brand heaters I could test out a little had I only have a workshop or shed of some kind.
My heaters:
-Spheros/Webasto Thermo 300
-Webasto DBW 2016
-Eberspächer D5Z-H
-Vintage Eberspächer 4kw water heater from the fifties made in West Germany 🙂
-Eberspächer D1L
Turns out you are not the only one getting a hard on from diesel heaters around here 😇🤣
I also had the same idea as you using cheap egr coolers to get some more heat out of the exhaust, they are quite cheap from the Baltic states and Poland
Would be great to see it in a practical application...either a central heating system or in combination with a hot water supply (boiler)... Would be also great to learn which of these chinese heater units can be used for, what the pros and cons are and what there limitations are...
I've been waiting for ages for that dave ..I'm wanting underfloor heating in my truck motor home..now I know a bit more about these diesel heaters cheers Mara
Ditto 🙂🙂
Finally got my 8kw heater. I will be making a mod in the next few weeks. Hoping to steal a lot of heat from the casing.
What do you use as a FLIR sensor?
Maybe the exhaust gas temperature is reading in *F? It looks like the other temperatures light up the "*C" light on the controller when reading them, but the EGT doesn't.
Hi David, how would it work with any of the diesel heaters, either air or air/water. If the exhaust was routed through a heat exchanger/ capture vessel to act a a pre-heater so as to obtain the most practical energy from the diesel fuel? I’ve just bought a 5k watt air heater for my shed. Great channel Cheers.
What would the results be when it's mid cycle... ie get it warmed up then switch over to a cold 10 litres and calculate the fuel used. .
Nice test, got a few of the 8kW air heaters, but that water heater looks much more useful....your maths look OK to me, considering measurement errors and radiated heat loss from the non insulated water system, at 300+ degrees EGT you certainly below 90% efficiency, probably more like 85%. The EGT display is useful for indicating when it needs cleaning.
Still, impressive enough 👍
What is the best way to recover the waste heat from the exhaust. I've run the exhaust through a car muffler before exhausting outside.
Thanks for this David I have been looking forward to seeing some hydronic clones hit the market.
50% efficient, not sure how that compares to the 5kw eberspacher and webastos I am used to.
One obviously disappointing feature that would really rule it out for motorhome use if coupled to a heater matrix or radiators appears to be no low speed continuous modulation.
To go through continuous startup and shutdown cycles will be a big hit on any battery bank due to the glow plug draw each time it fires up and shuts down.
It’s clearly designed as primarily an engine block heater.
Please share current draw info etc at a later date.
Devices are always rated by total used energy, a three kw fan heater consumes three kw at the source, however efficiency plays the biggest key here, this heater is very nearly
consuming the rated 16 kw, however it has intrinsic energy loss in the from of a poorly designed or manufactured heat exchanger, and as David has pointed out, basically chucks most of the energy out of the exhaust, it is still however a 16issh kw heater,
@@philno I meant into the workload i.e the water but I get you drift :)
@@CriftinsCampers 🙂
Wouldn't it only go through start up and shut down once up to temp? If youre running a few rads/ufh/water heater, you'll get heat loss, so the water will tale longer to get to temp and hopefully wouldn't reach it so in theory, it shouldn't cycle
Great vid testing, where did you buy the heater from.. also could set up via heat exchanger.. could you Adjust the temperature sensor or upgrade cut out temperature say 95 degrees?? I have a 9 kw wabasto heater would like more kw. Cheers David 👍🔥
Nice Video! With that waste heat, could a hot plate be made for cooking on?
This there a protective film on the controller?
I would like to see the exhaust connected to some copper pipe that is coiled in a tank of water and the gasses heating the water. Obviously i dont mean the gasses going into the water, but having a exit. The heat of the exhaust will be used. Maybe insulate the exposed exhaust leading up to the tank with some high temperature wrap to stop any heat loss.
Hey,
I'm trying to work out / design a recirculating shower system. I want to use something like this to circulate glycol in a closed loop system. Run it through a liquid to liquid heat exchanger and then have the water for the shower pass through the other side of the heat exchanger.
What I need to know is... If you keep this switch on does it fire up to maintain the temp? Can the temperature be raised higher than 85c?
This would be very invaluable to me to know so I can choose the right heater. Cheers matey.
How fast will it heat up a stone cold 7L iron block diesel? I think the latent heat would have to included in your calculation as it did consume fuel in the begining just to be released later....
bear in mind that some of the heat was radiated into the room from the hot canister and the uninsulated hoses.
Still a great idea as back up heat at home. Make a longer exhaust so it gives more heat of to the house then
Can you tell me where you bought this please and is 16kw as high as they go....great video
@david McLuckie How noisy is this? I'm trying to figure out if its too noisy for use in a campervan and if it'd break campsite noise limits or if it'd be ok, I'd appreciate and info and if they can be scilenced (or at least noise dampened)
my VVKB heater says it is 12kw and it gets up to an exhist temp of about 170, i need ot do this test on it.. ive thought about a secondary heat exchanger.. since i use this for cabin heat.. I wonder if there is enough flow to run the exhaust through a copper heat exchanger and blow a fan over it.. or if doing that would end up carboning up the passages in a heat exchanger.. since these things always seem to smoke a bit on startup.. esp when its below -5c outside..
How long will it work with water? As I understand the devices are designed to work with a coolant to avoid corrosion.
Hi David, I'm curious about bench testing the 5kw or 2kw burn chamber without the cylinder head ??? maybe interesting video? Smore for us
AIR INTAKE BOOSTER FAN IDEA - As longer exhaust pipe length and longer ductwork on the air heaters soot things up - could you do a test with a booster blower fan on the combustion air intake?
Also, another booster fan blowing over the 3-inch intake over the fins and out the warm airside. Charging the 3-inch intake will also make the combustion turbo spin with less resistance. The purpose of this test is to prevent long exhaust runs / or long ductwork causing carboning up unit. Also, long exhaust runs with the copper pipe will help in heat recovery setups. Too much-forced air could act like a blacksmith bellows, but overheating should not occur as the heat sensor should shut the unit down? This is going to be a balancing act to exact heat from every drop of diesel. The unit is very efficient compared with the big oil suckers we have in our American homes - with heat exhaust recovery perfected these units will cut our oil usage to unbelievably low consumption.
How hot did the exhaust tube actually get?
I'm looking for some high temp tubing to act as a exhaust gas tight gasket.
Would love to see more about this unit! Exhaust EGR! Might buy one soon!
I would like to see if it could heat a few radars
I'd like to see if a small car turbo intercooler would work to scavenge heat from the exhaust
What about running heater on used cooking oil?
the problem catching the heat is that sometimes you want it , sometimes you dont. is the fuel efficiency bad for a diesil heater like this?
Very interesting thank you :)
Something to think about is how much water flow and pressure do you need to run the shower head?
I'm thinking you will need a bigger container for a 10 minute fast shower.
Will you be heating a large container then have the shower and then fill it back up or will you have a ball valve to fill it up as it's being used, how much cold water goes in vs how fast it can heat as its being replaced by the cold water?
4kw at 240v can give you warm water but the pipes are under mains water pressure but throttled back as you don't need mains pressure at the head... So at what pressure do you need to run a shower head is needed
I was going to try more than example. Mains pressure from a hose into the heater then adjust the output flow to the shower head, much like a domestic electric shower does. Second would be a tank of water pre heated and then refilled and heated as the shower uses water.
Your videos are great! I have been eagerly awaiting this particular one. I have a couple of questions. First, what is the solution to the 24vt pump problem? Is there a 12vt pump that works available? Second, could you provide some dimensions, length, width and height? I am considering one of these for a van conversion and fit is always an issue.
Thanks. Keep up the good work.
Yes there is a 12V pump, mine should arrive today. The 24V one was a mistake in packing. I'll measure it one of the upcoming videos. :)
Which heater is this? I am looking for something like this that has a switch and controls so I can compensate for altitude. They all seem to have dumb wireless remote controls...
I learned david that the exhaust gas temp reads in degrees f. and the water temp in degrees c, I also learned the communications protocol for it and ots pretty easy! i think ill have no issue with controlling it using my own controller.. the water temp is settable and all too.. other than this thing being noisy as heck I think it will be a decent little heater
You should absolutely build a controller for it. There are people out there looking for better controllers.
@@DavidMcLuckie if nothing else this controller has such a dim display you can only see at night.. the communication protocol is rather archaic.. it is 5 volt TTL level 9600 baud, N81 data stream. 2 wires (TX / RX), each record starts with an 'ST' and ends with an 'OV' and uses a industry standard CRC-16 block check..
Well that's interesting. I have a small duck pen with a 120 gallon pond and we're currently using an electric heater to keep it from freezing over. I'm wondering if one of those along with a couple more 100 watt solar panels( I have 1 now for a 12v water pump) would do the job??? Or maybe I can skip the diesel part and add in a 12 volt heater run off the panels.
Your electric is 100 percent efficiency. This thing is probably maximum of 70 percent efficient if that unless you can capture the exhaust heat. Even then about the maximum you can get is 97 percent efficient
I kept coming up with 8.6kw where i was look i did come up with 9.1kw on a immersion heater calculator witch has the option of the tank size and ambient air temp witch i guessed from a generic amazon water tank and ambient tamp of 9°c
*hooah*
Fantastico
Grazie
Can we have a step by step instal , i have now ordered one, cheers for the tip, for boat hotwater, shower etc. If you could , that would be great. Plus , Ali ba ba may use it and you,ll get more hits. There int one currently, i recon these will become as popular as the ai blowers. what did you pay for yours?
yes do the shower experiment please
added with an egr cooler!
try running the water through a car blower motor, and see what it keeps the heat at as it would be removing the heat from the water ?
Hey im wondering if using the water / coolant or even some form of oil then use and pipe it off to radiator/s with fan/s would heat efficiently ?
Just read further replies hahaha, what sort of reservoir is been used ?
Actually you have to include the residual heat as that is heat produced by the fuel you used. Definitely needs an Exhaust heat exchanger.
Make a copper tube coil around the heat exhaust pipe (1 meter) with slowly flowing water (Shower head) that must be a lot more efficient to heat up 10 Liters of water if recycled back through it. I guess it will use only 50ml of diesel and takes about 20 minutes, i bett.
Danka Dave, great info..how about some pointers on your source
There is a link in the description.
have You thought to wrap some copper tubing around the the hottest area of the exhaust ?
Must be careful regarding flashing the water to steam.
Would you do a setup where you run both the air heater and water heater at the same time but with 1 fuel line from the fuel tank and tee's? I'm installing both and wondered if the fuel line will need to be bigger up to the tee and 2 check valves fitted to stop and draw from each other.
A bigger fuel line up to the pumps would not hurt. You wouldn't need any check valves as the pumps are one way only and don't bleed back.
So the heaters finally arrived and a temporary setup done. Heats water extremely quick but overshoot the target temp by a mile. Set to 80°C and I have to manually shut down at 96°C to avoid boiling the water. Ive emailed the supplier so I'm hoping they'll get back to me but would you say a sensor is at fault?
I would like to use this as a additional heater in my hot tub in the winter months, for me personally Diesel is alot cheaper than electricity.
Would that be a possible option, ive never dealt with these types of heaters before.
Essentially I would keep my hot tub plugged in to circulate, but use this as the main heating source, winter temperatures here drop down to average -20c
Yes. I've had a few videos of people heating hot tubs with them.
My one only goes up to 75 degrees. And I seem to have a faulty pump to so it won't run for long. The pump clicks still but decides just not to push any diesel through. I have no idea where to get a replacement quickly as I need to put it in my van in the next week 😫
Sounds like an odd fault. Send me an email on me@davidmcluckie and I'll see if I can sort you with one of my spare pumps.
@@DavidMcLuckie hi David I did email you but don't know if it went in your spam or junk folder. Was yours always set to 85 degrees ?
HI DAVID GREAT VID AS ALWAYS WHAT IS THIS WATER HEATER REALY FOR IS IT FOR WATER RADS LIKE ON A BOAT OR IS IT ONLY FOR HEATING YOUR WATER BLOCK? ON A VAN/CAR? NO GOOD FOR A WATER HEATER IN A VAN FOR SHOWERING ANYWAY KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. FROM SKEGNESS UK
They are advertised as parking heaters for heating engine coolant while heating the vehicle. But that doesn't mean you can't heat up other liquid based things with them if you want to. :)
Maybe they are rating it from the fuel rate that is combusted as opposed to the actual heating capacity. I'm wondering if the standard diesel air heaters are rated using a similar thought process in their ratings. Looking forward to the teardown :) Also does it need to be water in the tank or can it handle a standard automotive coolant and if so that opens up more possibilities of radiant heating etc.
Automotive coolant is fine. That's one of its intended applications.
👍👍👍
maybe this could be used as a hot tub heater ! or even a pool heater! just not sure how it will take the chemicals
Hi there, great video. Could you please test the regular Chinese air heater to heat water using a car HVAC internal radiator? Thanks
Yes, that could be thing.
I wonder if the results were 14kw instead of 16kw because you included the slower rates of the ramp up and cool down times at each end of the test? Maybe fire it up and get it running at full capacity, then mark the fuel consumption only for, say 5min of running flat out. Then maybe the consumed fuel will look more like 16kw. I'm sure that the marketing folks of the heater would only want to rate it as or indicate the maximum output the heater can do.
And I too would love to see you try to recover more heat from the exhaust.
Yes, most likely the number is based on best possible scenario. I'm working on the exhaust heat recovery. :)
Did you think about using also the heat of the exhaust?
Yes, thinking of ways to do it. :)
Could you use a carburetor for water injection on the intake?
I'm not sure if the vacuum is strong enough, but it's an interesting thought.
I would like to see a video of yourself in your shed not breathing out what looks like mist, I watch not just your videos but others trying to come to the conclusion that these heaters do exactly what they say and heat up the air around you, I recently bought a 8kw all in one heater although not received yet it has got to be better than my motorhome gas fired heater I already have but not dampen the air in my motorhome.
Particulates. That's why you can see my breath more in the workshop. They are coming from the burning fuel giving the moisture in the air something to stick to so you can see my breath. If the exhaust pipe was vented outside like it would be in normal operation this wouldn't be the case. So rest assured you won't get the same wet heat from a diesel air heater that you would from a gas fire.
@@DavidMcLuckie thanks for replying pal, that's good to hear as I have just bought one and logical explanation, great videos with lots of information..
would there be a way to wrap the exhaust pipe with copper piping to scavenge some of the heat out of the exhaust??
I hope so, that's one I'm going to try
I saw one such test but the pipe diameter was small and so was the water flow.
Hi how much was this heater? Have you done any tests using the 5kw water heater with out the air heater?
The air + water heater can only do both. The 16KW water heater is about £250.
Use it for central heating in the workshop ?
I am using the air version 5 KW. to heat a 20' X 20' workshop. Also, have them in my basement blowing hot air where I want it for the ultimate zone heating - cut a hole in the bathroom and kitchen floors - use the car style remote - works great and only pennies for fuel oil! The cheapest ones are as good as the pricer ones.
@David McLuckie can you use the Afterburner on this one?
Sadly no.
Have you found any of the larger (12kw or larger) water heaters that work with afterburner ?
The water heaters use a different ECU setup. Usually they run at full power then half power then turn off.
@@DavidMcLuckie yeah I dont dig that.. I had hoped the water heater (16kw) had different power levels or would throttle.. the real webasto units throttle.. I have a TSL-17 5kw real webasto in my other bus and as it gets closer to temperature it throttles down... my current VVKB heater runs 100% then shuts off.. heats the water between 60 to 80c on the old circuit board and 70 to 90c on the newer motherboard they sent me.. the controller on my VVKB has a water temp setting but the heater ignores it.. I dont know on the 16kw you have if it has multiple power settings? I ordered one and its been lost in shipping.. so they sent a new one and thats also lost in shipping now.. VVKB agreed to replace my broken heater and guess what it got lost in shipping but has been found.. I'd love to find a waster heater that can have different output levels.. Maybe ill have to build my own motherboard!
THXs David, looking forward when You take it apart. Could You show Amp draw @ 12 V please ?
Is fuel pump supplied 12 or 24 V ?
The pump I got was a mistake, it should have been a 12V.
Hi Dave. I'd be interested to see what power consumption figures come from this.
Yes, that was the thing I forgot to do. I'll get the clamp meter on it next time and see what it's pulling.
@@DavidMcLuckie Great stuff. I'm loving your series on these devices. I own 2 air heaters the 2KW and the "5" KW versions and they've worked flawlessly.
Link seems to go to a different unit now. Any idea how I find it on Alibaba?
Still goes to the same page for me. Weird.
@@DavidMcLuckie Whoops, was clicking on wrong video. Quick question though, does the heater require water to be circulating constantly? If the water was static in the hoses, would it overheat?
Is the exhaust gas temperature in Fahrenheit by any chance..
It could be. But if it is it started at 32ºF and it wasn't that cold in the workshop. :)
I just received my water heater.
I did get the 12 volt fuel pump.
It is throwing an error code.
003 fuel pump.
Any idea what I am doing wrong?
Fuel pump clicks once then stops.
If I test the fuel pump with 12 volt should the pump stay on or does it get pulses from controler?
It gets 12V in pulses. Make sure they've actually sent you a 12V pump. When mine arrived I had a 12V heater and a 24V pump.
@@DavidMcLuckie thank you.
I had mixed up the water pump and fuel pump.same connection. Going figure.
Working fine now.
Pretty loud.
Do they make a muffler or silencer for it.
can you put mains water pressure in the heater ?
Going to find out. :)