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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- UPDATE - we received the replacement Transmission parts from SRAM and repaired the derailleur. Check it out here: • We totally destroyed (...
Will SRAM Transmission shift in zero gravity? Does this new electronic drivetrain sink or float? How fast do you have to throw a baseball at your derailleur to break it? We answer these questions, and more, in our latest video. We take this brand new wireless, hangerless mountain bike drivetrain to its limits, and beyond, so you don't have to.
Find yours here:
- bit.ly/43BcBxw
*Disclaimer:
To best describe the strength of the various derailleurs we tested, we opted to compare the momentum of our pendulum to that of other "real world" moving objects (however likely/unlikely they may be). We chose to look at momentum carried by the pendulum, as opposed to the actual force delivered to the derailleur, because we do not have the tools and equipment needed to measure that force. If Dan was unclear at any time and implied that the impact force was identical to that of a hypersonic baseball, as opposed to the momentum of the pendulum being equivalent to that of a hypersonic baseball, it is only because his physics education does not exceed that of a college physics 101 class. If James made any calculation errors in the video, it is only because he was in the middle of finals week in his physics undergraduate degree during the filming of the video, and not because he didn't take every possible measure to ensure the accuracy and clarity of his comparisons, up to and including checking his methods with his classical mechanics professor.
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#mtb #sram #newtech #sramtransmission #thedreamdelivered #willitblend
UPDATE VIDEO - we received the replacement derailleur parts from SRAM and repaired it, check it out here: m.th-cam.com/users/shortsP9-LFW_PtIU
Pricing?
A hanger is 20€/$
Man I hate it when a baseball hits my rear mech at mach 1.7
Happens way too often these days. All Putin's fault...
Stop riding across the baseball field then, duh!
@@tekjim 😂
You ever seen the video of Randy Johnson smoking a bird with a fastball during a game? It’s like that but with derailleur’s and a much faster fast ball 😂
Smarter Every Day enters the chat…
Honestly SRAM owes you guys some commission. This is way better than anything that came out of SRAMs marketing department and should silence a lot of people complaining about the durability of Transmission.
Glad you enjoyed it! Hahaha, that might change our stance on things. This way we get to figure out if we want to sell the stuff.
Cheers - Dan P.
As an applied physics undergraduate (who is learning Lagrangian atm), it was sooooo exciting to hear that the silly methods used in this vid count as a professional application of a degree im pursuing. epic. cant wait to do something equally dumb/informative in the future
@fanatik needs to pay that physicist guy more w all that number crunching
They clearly don't have even the slightest understanding of physics, inertia, momentum, etc. The last test that destroyed the derailleur is actually the only realistic result of what would happen if the bike is flying and hits a rock. The others just pushed the gears and absorbed the inertia.
Thank you, I spent the full video thinking momentum has nothing to do with force. F=MA is physics 101@@paulgallagher2937
Let's see what happens when it gets cought in the spokes, will a carbon frame snap like a twig?
Halfway through the video and I'm honestly impressed how well the original AXS derailleur held up. It almost makes me wonder why SRAM went through the hassle of making a proprietary version with Transmission, and potentially leaving the dropouts as a point of failure instead of a hanger. But I guess time will tell as they get ridden in real-world conditions.
16:49 my set of shimano rims actually have a hole in the sidewall to allow water to drain out of the double wall. The water comes in from the spoke nipple holes, learnt that the hard way when doing creek crossings
Finally a video that actually tests the durability.
Loved the video and the approach to thinking about failure modes. I would have liked to see the same test on a Shimano cable shifted derailleur as well for comparison.
That would have been sweet, but at 26 minutes long we felt like we were pushing it already. Figured keep the test to a parallel product category. Glad you enjoyed it!
- Dan P.
Could have been 35’ I would have watch
As much as I love my Shimano Drivetrain, they would use a piece of al dente spaghetti to whip it and break it. 😂.
Awesome information, but damn that was hard to watch. Never wished I had SRAM until today. MTB tech is fascinating.
Super painful. Didn't love dropping that pendulum on the poor bikes.
Thanks for watching!
Dan P.
hope they release a cable version for this, no beef against electronics but i just want my bike to be fully mechanical.
They won't. Most of the core stuff that makes this awesome is only available due to it being 'smart'. Introducing mechanical indexing and variables such as cable tension mean that you cannot apply the vast majority of the advantages that you have with Transmission. Think of Gen 1 AXS as an electronic emulation of a mechanical drive train, where as this Gen 2 AXS is if you forget about mechanical ever existing.
Personally would like even more reviews, tests, overviews and stuff, everything!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
- Dan P.
Would love to hear how much speed loss due to impact the hits would equate to if you (Dan) were riding say 15mph so it becomes more relatable. Knowing for example that the derailler could take a hit hard enough to take out 1/3 of your speed at 15mph would be very reassuring
Whatever they said is the difference in speed. I think it was 2.4 mph to zero which is the same as 15mph to 12.4 mph.
@@samvilla6290 it's not because the starting velocity isn't the same. That would mean that the same mass at higher velocity would slow down a lot less
BEST video you guys have dropped
the second that dude started talking about the math i knew he would make an excellent programmer and sure enough a couple mins later hes like "yeah i wrote a script to do the math for me"
Dude. Love the tribute to “will it blend”.
Differential equations and Python code? This has to be your best video yet. Love the details for nerds.
James was an incredible help in this project! I tried to use my 12 year old memory of physics 101 to figure this stuff out and, unsurprisingly, failed. I'm super glad he was able to entertain the project despite being in the middle of his midterms!!
- Dan P.
I loved the video but you don't need python to do a pendulum energy calc!
@danp5812 hey Dan. Thanks for all that info, i subbed to your channel a while back. Keep it up! Thats my fear about that knurled bit! Cheers
My hats off, fella's! Solid work here, love seeing this system getting smashed on. Keep this style coming in the future!
-The other Rich
Thanks Rich. Appreciate it. I enjoyed yours as well. You always hit the important stuff concisely and clearly.
Cheers,
Dan P.
Wow, you guys beat the crap outta that thing!
The huge assumption is that the spindle and rear triangle hasn't received a shock beyond its elastic limit, which isn't visible. Single seat race cars carbon suspension wishbones are strong in one direction, weak in all others.
This fixes a non problem. Seriously this is right up there with Rapid Rise. A good idea that is completely not needed.
That was my initial take, but after learning more about it and spending some time on it, I've changed my mind. We've actually got a second video coming out later today that focuses more on the actual changes, I'll link it here when it's released!
Dan P.
Yeah but the price 🥳 Sram's killing it with drive train cost! I'll keep waiting ✋️
@@TurboWolf5000 Totally fair. Definitely not intended to be a budget system-GX is there for a high quality, less expensive option. One of SRAM's reps described bikes equipped with Transmission as "Ferraris," if that gives you an idea of who they're targeting it.
Cheers - Dan P.
My bent hangers would disagree.
Nice tests! New sram looks impressive..
so what this test showed me, that the normal derailleur hanger is just perfectly fine and easy replaceable, where on the new derailleur you would need to press out a bent pin to replace a part of the parallelogram and then still hope that it might fix the problem. all that for the very cheap price of 1500 dollars.
Nope, no pressing of anything. Two aluminum parts to be replaced, each around $20. We'll post an update on that when we receive them.
Cheers,
Dan P.
Hanger easier to find and replace. Probably cheaper than axs part too.
Great content definitely most entertaining SRAM transmission content on the tube, and highlights the great features this new tech gives to mountain biking 👍
love the way he solved the Euler-Lagrange equations
I will tell James you said so!
Cheers,
Dan P.
What about a thick branch in the wheel? A hanger could snap. But I guess they went for strong enough materials for it to not be an issue, and cage will likely bend, but would be interesting to see this.
That was mildly stress inducing.
For real. Gnarly.
- Dan P.
Great video! Plus I think I got my physics degree from just watching Woot!!!
Will it work on my blinged out Huffy w/Ape Hangers?
Great experiment. Still sticking with a cable for now but I enjoyed this a lot
That was fun to watch, but you definitely need to have someone seated on the bike for that test. There is a whole lot of energy being dissipated through the clamp and bike stand. The bracing on the opposing side obviously moves too much. Having someone seated on it would stabilize the whole bike from top and bottom to be more real world. As long as there right leg is on the pedal and they have something to brace against, I wouldn't be worried about the impact much. Especially if you start with less weight to make an impact. I would think less weight would be needed to damage the derailleur using that setup.
Great video. It addresses my worries about the new drivetrain.
Really enjoy this type of content! Thanks!
hey I saw this at crankworks rotorua last Wednesday. Well the 2023 model.
thank you dudes! keep it up
Question. What happens to the cage or jockey wheels with a hit. Does axis work that out?
These tests are pretty legit, repeatable, and iterative. Nice work. You can sell that derailleur for close to retail as only, "tested"
you guys need to make an indestrutible bike buld with the fr541 and this :0
I would love to see what happens when you catch a stray stick into a wheel.. I snapped 2 hangers in my life and both with a stick in the spokes
So you have to carry lots of spare derailleur parts as you don't know what might break instead of just a spare hangar?
Nope, just two little ones, and only if you want to be really really prepared. Total volume is about the same as a derailleur hanger.
- Dan P.
No product embargo on these?
Embargo just lifted! Welcome to release day!
@@FanatikBikeCo juicy!
Hitting a rock at 3 miles an hour is acceptable for a hanger to bend? It’s impressive and everything in this test but what’s the relative?
I would rather carry a new derailleur hangar rather than a new derailleur. Just saying.
To me durability is not a problem. The main issue of the product is frame tolerances eg 148 boost dropout can be 150mm and it changes once it's tightened.
For a point of reference let's see a Shimano XT & XTR tested. 😁
That would have been sweet, but at 26 minutes long we felt like we were pushing it already. Figured keep the test to a parallel product category. Glad you enjoyed it!
- Dan P.
@@FanatikBikeCo totally understandable on length, awesome test!. Part B video the Shimano destruction test!
@@FanatikBikeCo it would have been quick... :D
@@lemimsey3797 oof 😬😅
- Dan P
I'm interested to see what happens if you get an impact when you're in the top gear position... That position seems to carry the most risk for an impact. But the good news is that you'd be going very slowly in that gear.
You deserve the views dude. You're doing what we mountain cyclists were wondering, and at least me treating the derailleur as if it was my baby, I don't know how much it really could stand
Glad you enjoyed it Carlo!
Cheers - Dan P.
But is the transmission one actually ok after swapping out the part ? and going right up to the force that broke the eagle one which also broke the transmission one kind of leaves out the possibility of showing wether the new ones is weaker than the old one or is there something I am not getting ?
(no hate generally curios)
You guys crazy
What's gonna be funny is if Sram never releases the supposed "replaceable" parts so that means a new Der anyways, compared to simply rebending/replacing hangers.
And currently that also means you have to buy the whole groupset if you happened to break one thing.
...
Nice
You can order them right here:
www.fanatikbike.com/products/sram-x0-eagle-transmission-t-type-axs-rear-derailleur-cover-skid-kit
Cheers - Dan P
Need the "branch" test, how may times derailleur hangers die because of a rogue twig. Also I really wonder about the availability of the replacement parts an for how many years they will keep the design before your derailleur is obsolete.
SRAM does have the new Magic Wheel pulley which will keep rolling if a twig gets stuck in there. Not sure how often a twig really gets stuck in a pulley wheel but they did think about your "branch" test to some extent!
is there trimming like on the old axs system?
Yep.
- Dan P.
Now I can buy a AXS rear mech and tell my frame that I am broken.
Super entertaining, well done gents!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I thought the new set up did not use a hanger. Confused but also impressed.
It does not. I suspect you watched the first few tests where we whacked the old AXS system (which actually held up really impressively).
- Dan P.
Great video, commenting for the algorithm
Hahahah we appreciate it. Glad you enjoyed it.
- Dan P.
How about comparing to mechanical derailleur?
Is the new derailleur available now, and are there any compatibility problems?
The new derailleur is available as a groupset, and is not compatible with Eagle or AXS.
There is more info here:
www.fanatikbike.com/collections/groupsets?page=1&rb_product_type=Groupsets&rb_snize_facet8=12-speed%20Wireless
Cheers - Dan P.
Can we get a linkglide cassette paired with a t type please
would be interesting to not just see speed kill it but also weight, so how much pressure it holds
Hitting the cage would be most interessting, especially as SRAM is known for weak spare cage support.
Isn't what people really wanna know is are you gonna spend more replacing derailleur hangers or spend more replacing pieces of the new derailleur to keep perfect shifting. Rocks usually hit the derailleur arm, not the body, so this feels like a useless test to me. Hitting the body with your contraption doesn't make sense to me. Rarely are people gonna hit the body hard enough to do much of anything. It's always the arms that get bent for me.
i find that 1341 usually does the job for me but you must habe gotten lucky
I am not that good at math, but I guess that the chances of your transmission getting hit by a fastball while riding is must be pretty small
Huh. Never looked at it that way. Especially one that's going twice the speed of sound.
;) cheers - Dan P.
I feel bad for who ever buys that old derailleur on Bellingham OfferUp.
Just need a little JB Weld!
Lemme buy that broken derailleur tho 👀 😂
Peak Torque is screaming rn
Hit it from the front and also from the front but at an angle, like one would hit a rock or a log on a tight trail.
We do!
th-cam.com/video/i3QzPxdN1e4/w-d-xo.html
- Dan P.
@@FanatikBikeCoOk my bad, didn't payed propper attention. So here is the follow up question: did the inside "chiesel like" dereluyer mount eate into the frame after it was whacked backwards?
@@renifeer Good question that I didn't really think about at the time, but was then brought to my attention by concerns from Peak Torque's youtube channel. There was a little bit of black carbon dust, but no visible marking. When I put the derailleur back on after fixing it, you couldn't see any scratches.
- Dan P.
Incredible
OK,,, this shows the reason why Sram makes many pieces replaceable
Why they covered their ears during hitting the derailleur? 😅
It was very loud.
- Dan P.
@@FanatikBikeCo yeah definitely 😁
I thought this derailleur didn’t use a hanger?
It does not! I suspect you're watching the portion of the video where we are testing the current generation AXS drivetrain to see how it holds up.
We start with the new derailleur here: th-cam.com/video/i3QzPxdN1e4/w-d-xo.html
Cheers,
Dan P.
This was insanely uncomfortable to watch. 😂
So the parts that don't break are replaceable, but what will actually break isn't. An improvement of sorts I suppose.
The part that broke was on the derailleur tho. Also the hangar is mainly braced on the axle (though it would spread some of the impact on the frame). Derailleur vs axle/frame, it's hard to see a scenario where the derailleur wins imo
did you even watch the video?
It is replaceable. They just did not have the part since it is a brand new groupset.
Wow, they really want you to buy this thing.
What kind of Top Gear Trying to destroy a Hilux is this?
Poor dropper post
The cost of this system is unbelievable. Not JUST a derailleur but the whole system. Such a rip off.
All of my derailleur failures involve sticks .......no fing way will any of my bikes have one of those!!!! Note: wondering if you guys even ride After this.
I don't follow. Are you saying we should have whacked it with a tree branch?
- Dan P.
This is quite inaccurate, because the energy of your "simulated" impact is a fraction of the true energy, when the bicycle has a huge pile of flesh sitting on the saddle. So it's really hard to make any conclusions from this. Also, when you hit the derailleur, you don't keep pushing with your full force.
I dare you to do that final blow while supporting the bike on something other than the axle, cause I'm pretty sure that amount of force would break the frame if you didn't have the allen key in the trough axle.
and then a hanger with a bit of give is suddenly a really great thing.
I do like that they'll provide replacement parts for it tho, I mean I don't see the need to remove the old frame saving replaceable hanger just to be able to sell other replacement parts but I'll give credit where credit is due and offering replacement parts to fix a rear mech is definitely a good thing. I'll still bet the part that broke is at least twice the cost of the old hanger you broke a few of in this vid.
There is a significant difference when shifting while riding vs not riding, a certain load/tension on the chain does influence the entire drivetrain performance. Your scientific approach lacks consideration for all factors.
Damn, SRAM is really pushing this product to all the TH-camr’s. This new SRAM stuff popped up everywhere as I was making my TH-cam rounds today. 😎
they pump heavy cash into this
Sram's not pushing anything. It's basically 'free' marketing to them. Give content creator's your new product, tell them the features and let them have at it. Creators have had the groupsets available to them to make videos. Embargo lifts and content is available.
@Logan Patrick Nelson Could you make another video and go into deatil? Im curious if the new 8bolt mount chanrings will fit with old SRAM 12 speed chains? On web site they say these chainrings are only for new type of chain, but visually the teeth on chainring look identical to old SRAM chainrings... Thanks.
Imagine who's gonna pay the advertisement in the end...
SRAM and other companies usually have media embargoes so it makes sense that everybody who had this already would release this on the same day to be "first"
The entire bike was absorbing the shock because the bike was suspended. Have someone sit on the bike with the tire on the floor and do it. Saw the brace at the end but it was still moving alot.
It is true. Not a perfect test. We actually broke the door on the bench it hit it so hard. Things to learn from!
Cheers, Dan P.
P.S. I don't think we could have volunteered anyone to sit on that thing with that whacker loaded up like it was!! 😲😅
but i'd venture to guess if you did the same test on a different bike with a conventional style setup, it would have given up the ghost a long time ago.
This experiment only tests the durability of the parallelogram. I would actually like to see how carbon dropouts would fare after an impact to the lug piece that the UDH bolt holds in place, you know the piece just above the parallelogram.
Most people are worried about damage to their carbon dropouts if the impact is on that wide silver section right by the setup button since that's the part that will transfer the impact force directly into the dropout.
That side impact that broke the parallelogram actually impacted the b-knuckle (the piece you refer to) first, before then hitting the parallelogram. See here: th-cam.com/video/i3QzPxdN1e4/w-d-xo.html
- Dan P.
Pretty sure it impacted the fulcrum of said piece.
@@FanatikBikeCo you should do a analysis of the rear triangle material after all these whacks. Surely, that would be a more comprehensive look at where the shock is going, no?
Shouldn't we as customers, be insisting on aluminium dropouts in carbon frames, because carbon abrades far to easily.
@@matthewpeet1 or just buy an alloy or steel frame 🦊👍
Making an immensely stiff and strong derailleur mount is fine but what shock loads is it putting into the carbon rear triangle and linkage?! Energy in, is energy out. A very risky design. Scan the carbon for delamination...
It's actually all going into the axle, which is supported by both sides of the rear triangle. So you're not wrong, but it's an extremely solid design. Like, your rear triangle's dropouts are dealing with massively larger forces than this from hits on the trail and drops and jumps, etc. If you don't trust this, you may as well not trust your bike to ride it.
- Dan P.
The part that's missing here is rate of work...aka power. The power of that impact is much much much greater than the power of Dan impacting at 2.5 mph.
Hahaha, there was a lot missing here from this experiment, but yes. I originally wanted to calculate the force of the impacts, but it was going to be harder than what we had time for, so we settled on momentum as a frame of reference.
Cheers!
Dan P.
Man so right
Work/time
Love it! Will it blend meets mythbusters
@@adamtuff2574 Thanks Adam!! Glad you dug it. Good hearing from ya!
- Dan P.
Wild moves to test this new Transmission! Thanks for this video guys :D
The dropouts on Treks are super weak, would love to see this test on the Trek Fuel ex.
Hope you are paying your python coding, diff equation calculating servicemen appropriately! Bringing in people that actually know about engineering and a little physics is what sets this test apart from the others, well done!
How did the carbon on the dropouts hold up after these tests?
This is such a great progress from the cranks breaking video. However, I think the impact would come from the direction of the travel (like when you hit a stump or rock), but your angled dangle pendulum was quite close. The impact from the side is way less likely. To smash a derailleur and provide with some number is way betther then do a silly "stepping test". Looking forwared to the next video
Fuck I want one of these so bad I'm running shimano rn and it's always out of whack no matter how many times I get it adjusted . Would this fit a Commencal Meta ?
Did you pull the derailleur off and inspect the frame and flex stays for cracks? That’s what I wanna see.
I was most intrigued by the angle of your dangle while you were whacking it. 🤓
😘 hahaha glad you enjoyed the vid.
Cheers - Dan P.
I know they’re pushing this “fully rebuildable” line, but SRAM’s track record on actually making spare parts available for purchase is dismal to the point of considering it non-factor.
I have two sets of expensive 11-speed road shifters that can’t be used because the poorly designed hydro piston seals swoll up and SRAM have not made the replacements available for a couple of years now.
So yeah, good luck rebuilding these, but I’m sure the complete (and crazy expensive) replacement derailleurs will be available everywhere, all the time though. You will of course buy it because you’re now locked into a highly proprietary system and have no other choice without replacing the entire drivetrain.
🤔 good point. We need said replacement parts
The hype around this product is ridiculous. This is literally the whole point of a hanger system - it will be the main point of failure to save the derailleur. A cheap part that is easily replaceable. Why is this being hailed as revolutionary is behind me when it isn't.
?
Hangers bend really easy, sometimes ever so slightly and shifting often is impacted and ppl don't notice it for days or even weeks
This new design solves at the minimum one third of all issues with shifting.
It was hit dozen of time until it gave in. I have seen many derailers getting bend with the hangar as well - srams design and the shown durability will save riders a lot if time and pain to tune and replace stuff
Also spare parts are available now - if that isn't an improvement I don't know what is...
What’s the condition of the frame?
The thing is tho.. if you do manage to break it, i'd imagine a broken derailleur is the least of your concerns.
Just another overpriced groupset for dummy's