Lots of people care about different physiological data points to better understand their fitness, bodies and impact of habits on fitness. Strange that you choose to decide what people should and should not care about.
I did a lab test for V02 max in 2019 and it was exactly the same as my Garmin 945 reading. I do wear a Wahoo HRM chest strap every run. Also I think it’s important to make sure you know your real max heart rate for Garmin to able to make the correct calculations. Also you need make sure your most recent weight is also updated.
Me too. I started wearing a strap and noticed no difference at all in what the watch says. I only use the watch now as its so much easier and as long as its moving in the right direction I see no need for an expensive assessment. Although I do think that serious athletes would benefit from the type of accuracy a full assessment would offer, they work in mili seconds.
@@robhughes645 Several research projects shoed that the numbers given by COROS, Polar, and Garmin for VO2MAX are only within 1 or 2 numbers below that given during a Lab Test. The key is to wear a chest HR strap for accuracy.
My experience of Garmin VO2max, is that for me is it exaggerates my VO2 max by around 5ml/l, (as compared to runanalyze) but it does track up and down consistently, so if I just use it to measure my progress against myself, I think that it can still be useful. I find as a hard effort pace prediction it is consistent and within a couple of mins on a 10km run on the same route. That suggests (I know this is only anecdotal) for me it is much better then 10% consistent even if it is not accurate.
This has been my experience. Garmin: 49, Runalyze: 43.65. Trends seem to be consistent as with weight, hydration and composition - too much noise to be useful day-to-day but trends are useful as long as the measure is consistent.
Same here! You should see my race predictor results…. Crazy fast times compared to my actual times…. So crazy, I have produced a video to talk about it…
That situation which Shona just described where my VO2 was reportedly falling because I'm entering a period of long slow runs was correct. Was disheartening to see it but I'm thankful for watching this video to correct that misconception!
Using my Polar with chest strap my "fitness test" results over the last couple of years have produced scores in the 46-51 range at home. I did a lab based test recently and the number came back as 52 (for running) with 2 about months training. I'm a (trained) older cyclist. Anyway VO2MAX not the ultimate performance predictor. Maybe do a vlog about that...
I use a Garmin Fenix 7X. My Vo2 max is 28 (poor) yet my fitness age is 61 and my calendar age is 77. Based on Garmin stats. Additionally I selected run (my eyes are age 77) twice accidentally when walking and it may have lowered my v02 max.
Thank you. Very useful to know how they do this. I realise it might not be 100% accurate but I do really love the feedback I get from my Garmin (except when it tells me it's unproductive lol - so harsh!) and it has helped me focus on areas of my training to improve my overall fitness trend and that is happening slowly, so I guess it's still useful. Interesting that you say speed is a factor though. Worth bearing in mind. I'm currently training for a half and have been more focused on surviving the distance, rather than speed so that does explain why my VO2 max hasn't improved much even though I'm in week 13 of 18! Fingers crossed the speed will come soon (and the VO2 max 🙏) along with the distance!
I use the Coros Pace 2. It seems to use age, weight, height, resting HR, running analysis, but VO2 Max is clearly impacted by whatever you enter as your maximum HR, so if that is not accurate then neither is one’s VO2 Max
Do this , the Coopertest (12 minute full speedrun, measure the reached distance) . For example 2800 meters Do this formula: (distance -505)/45 = vo2max 2800-505/45 = 51 vo2max
I think the message from the video is not to take the VO2 max as a matter of life or death. Consider it an estimate that helps you understand where you stand rather than being upset that you got a score lower than expected. My Huawei GT3 gave me a score of 32! You can imagine how I felt. I then used a Withings Scanwatch and got 44. The numbers aren't high but the difference between the two watches was significant. I'm in the 40 to 45 years old category.
I recently had my VO2 Max tested in a lab at 70, where my Garmin Fenix 6 constantly shows 59. I alway use a chest heart rate monitor and while I do a lot of my hard runs on flat road, most of my easy mileage is on hilly offroad. The occasional run pushing the twin baby stroller won't help it either!
I got lab tested recently and my watch was actually right on target, i am using a garmin forerunner 255. I think what is important is wearing the watch at all times to.
I had my VO2max measured in a lab twice, on a bike and running on a treadmill. Both give about 56. My estimated VO2max by my Garmin devices (always with a chest strap) is 59 for running and 67 for cycling 😂 Wildly different and both an overestimation, the cycling one quite shockingly… Interestingly, the old VDOT system (rables really…) from Jack Daniels is eerily accurate. The predictions based on race results from a mile to a marathon ánd the threshold pace all fall within 1,0 from 56!
Did you set the cycling heart rate max and the zones ? They are different from running because of the muscles being used. Cycling heart rate max is lower than running heart rate max.
Well said team. When I train easy vo2max can drop according to garmin... which is untrue- because I'm just working in Zone2 and building healthy Mitochondria. Then few wks later a race effort re establishes the vo2 watch setting. Yet in reality v02 was the essentially the same those 3wks. Cheers
Accuracy aside, you can still use it as a metric. Watch VO2 going up - Your training is working. VO2 going down - Time to re-evaluate your training plan.
I remember that Polar originally called their metric "Own Index" which is a better description (about 25 yrs ago?). Then competitors started selling devices with similar metrics which they labelled called "VO2_max".
Following the Garmin VO2MAX can end up over training, because if you want to keep up the nice number of VO2MAX, you need to train harder and harder, everytime training in Zone2, the number will drop!
So yeah, I don't care too much about the absolute value or fluctuations over the short term. What I want to know is whether longer term changes mean anything in terms of overall aerobic fitness.
At 7:05 (about Vo2max as estimated by wearable going down): I don't think this explanation is true, because this isn't how the algorithm to "predict" someone's vo2max based on exercise data works. The prediction is based on machine learning combining BOTH hr and pace.Thus during an easy run, yes your pace goes down, but so does the HR, and thus the algo should (in theory) predict a similar vo2max value than it would at an higher pace. That being said, the predictions for higher-intensity efforts tends to be more accurate. But it isn't the slowing of the pace that directly impacts a calculation, rather it is simply that sub-maximal efforts allow more variations in how and individual response.
Why can't Vo2Max be estimated by max performance? If an 80kg man runs a 5k in 22 mins then his VO2Max is higher than a 70kg guy running the same distance in 22 mins. This is what it is supposed to measure.
My Garmin vo2max has been steady 50 through the summer. Doesn't matter what kind of runs I do. It always does drop to 46-47 in the winter and I always wonder if it's because I'm actually more out of shape (I do drop my running distances just a bit for the winter and I commute by bicycle much less) or if it has to do with running in the snow being slower or maybe the fact that I have to wear more clothes to slow me down (and maybe heat me up too much too, as I probably often overdress in cold weather a bit). Or maybe it's a combination of all of those things.
I do not want to compare my VO2max with others, I would like to see my progress. That would be possible, if my device (Garmin) is accurate or makes the same error every time. Could that be the case?
Is VO2 max a useful thing to know? By all accounts, you can increase to a max level and you get there pretty quick(in months rather than years). Are there any training programs(for amateurs especially) that make use of it to set programming?
Yeah maybe, but it seems like irrelevant data to me. You find out your VO2 max and you get a kick if it's high and disappointed if it's low, but you don't really use it for anything. It's correlation to race times are low, especially in the longer distances. Results are the real test of your progress.
Those type of studies are the lowest level in term of scientific accuracy, take this with a pinch of salt, same as the VO2 max. As far as I am concerned the actual lab measurements were close to what the watch indicates, in fact the differences were not scientifically significant, Polar and Garmin watches also give me a similar VO2max.
How a watch reading only heart rate could estimate correctly oxygen utilization? it doesn't make any sense. It will always be an estimation if we don't use tubes and masks to read it correctly.
Bottom line is who cares exactly what the VO2 max actually is? It is a number. What really matters is the change as you grow in fitness.
Freaks with fitness ocd care. Lol!
Trend not isolated data points
Bang ON!
Lots of people care about different physiological data points to better understand their fitness, bodies and impact of habits on fitness. Strange that you choose to decide what people should and should not care about.
I did a lab test for V02 max in 2019 and it was exactly the same as my Garmin 945 reading. I do wear a Wahoo HRM chest strap every run. Also I think it’s important to make sure you know your real max heart rate for Garmin to able to make the correct calculations. Also you need make sure your most recent weight is also updated.
Me too. I started wearing a strap and noticed no difference at all in what the watch says. I only use the watch now as its so much easier and as long as its moving in the right direction I see no need for an expensive assessment. Although I do think that serious athletes would benefit from the type of accuracy a full assessment would offer, they work in mili seconds.
@@robhughes645 Several research projects shoed that the numbers given by COROS, Polar, and Garmin for VO2MAX are only within 1 or 2 numbers below that given during a Lab Test. The key is to wear a chest HR strap for accuracy.
My experience of Garmin VO2max, is that for me is it exaggerates my VO2 max by around 5ml/l, (as compared to runanalyze) but it does track up and down consistently, so if I just use it to measure my progress against myself, I think that it can still be useful. I find as a hard effort pace prediction it is consistent and within a couple of mins on a 10km run on the same route. That suggests (I know this is only anecdotal) for me it is much better then 10% consistent even if it is not accurate.
This has been my experience. Garmin: 49, Runalyze: 43.65. Trends seem to be consistent as with weight, hydration and composition - too much noise to be useful day-to-day but trends are useful as long as the measure is consistent.
Same here! You should see my race predictor results…. Crazy fast times compared to my actual times…. So crazy, I have produced a video to talk about it…
That situation which Shona just described where my VO2 was reportedly falling because I'm entering a period of long slow runs was correct. Was disheartening to see it but I'm thankful for watching this video to correct that misconception!
I produced very same video a while back and the words “pinch of salt” come to mind with sports watches accuracy 🥳
Using my Polar with chest strap my "fitness test" results over the last couple of years have produced scores in the 46-51 range at home. I did a lab based test recently and the number came back as 52 (for running) with 2 about months training. I'm a (trained) older cyclist. Anyway VO2MAX not the ultimate performance predictor. Maybe do a vlog about that...
I use a Garmin Fenix 7X. My Vo2 max is 28 (poor) yet my fitness age is 61 and my calendar age is 77. Based on Garmin stats. Additionally I selected run (my eyes are age 77) twice accidentally when walking and it may have lowered my v02 max.
Thank you. Very useful to know how they do this. I realise it might not be 100% accurate but I do really love the feedback I get from my Garmin (except when it tells me it's unproductive lol - so harsh!) and it has helped me focus on areas of my training to improve my overall fitness trend and that is happening slowly, so I guess it's still useful. Interesting that you say speed is a factor though. Worth bearing in mind. I'm currently training for a half and have been more focused on surviving the distance, rather than speed so that does explain why my VO2 max hasn't improved much even though I'm in week 13 of 18! Fingers crossed the speed will come soon (and the VO2 max 🙏) along with the distance!
I use the Coros Pace 2. It seems to use age, weight, height, resting HR, running analysis, but VO2 Max is clearly impacted by whatever you enter as your maximum HR, so if that is not accurate then neither is one’s VO2 Max
Do this , the Coopertest (12 minute full speedrun, measure the reached distance) . For example 2800 meters
Do this formula: (distance -505)/45 = vo2max
2800-505/45 = 51 vo2max
I think the message from the video is not to take the VO2 max as a matter of life or death. Consider it an estimate that helps you understand where you stand rather than being upset that you got a score lower than expected. My Huawei GT3 gave me a score of 32! You can imagine how I felt. I then used a Withings Scanwatch and got 44. The numbers aren't high but the difference between the two watches was significant. I'm in the 40 to 45 years old category.
I recently had my VO2 Max tested in a lab at 70, where my Garmin Fenix 6 constantly shows 59. I alway use a chest heart rate monitor and while I do a lot of my hard runs on flat road, most of my easy mileage is on hilly offroad. The occasional run pushing the twin baby stroller won't help it either!
Hi Laurie. Would you mind sharing where you did your lab test? I would really like to do a lab test too.
I called my local hospital. They have a department that will do vo2 max testing, out of pocket, $300
I got lab tested recently and my watch was actually right on target, i am using a garmin forerunner 255.
I think what is important is wearing the watch at all times to.
I had my VO2max measured in a lab twice, on a bike and running on a treadmill. Both give about 56. My estimated VO2max by my Garmin devices (always with a chest strap) is 59 for running and 67 for cycling 😂 Wildly different and both an overestimation, the cycling one quite shockingly…
Interestingly, the old VDOT system (rables really…) from Jack Daniels is eerily accurate. The predictions based on race results from a mile to a marathon ánd the threshold pace all fall within 1,0 from 56!
Did you set the cycling heart rate max and the zones ? They are different from running because of the muscles being used. Cycling heart rate max is lower than running heart rate max.
@@vnvtraining7203 yes, I set both separately based on the threshold HR's that were measured in the lab tests (185 for running, 176 for cycling)...
It’s fairly accurate to give you an idea of your stamina. Whenever my VO2 max is higher than before I run with a lower heart rate at a faster pace.
I find this useful for reference, but generally speaking if one is familiar with how these watches function these inaccuracies should be expected.
Well said team. When I train easy vo2max can drop according to garmin... which is untrue- because I'm just working in Zone2 and building healthy Mitochondria. Then few wks later a race effort re establishes the vo2 watch setting. Yet in reality v02 was the essentially the same those 3wks. Cheers
Accuracy aside, you can still use it as a metric. Watch VO2 going up - Your training is working. VO2 going down - Time to re-evaluate your training plan.
I remember that Polar originally called their metric "Own Index" which is a better description (about 25 yrs ago?). Then competitors started selling devices with similar metrics which they labelled called "VO2_max".
Following the Garmin VO2MAX can end up over training, because if you want to keep up the nice number of VO2MAX, you need to train harder and harder, everytime training in Zone2, the number will drop!
I have heard this complaint before, but cannot confirm it myself. I train hard only 1 or 2 times a week and the vo2max has been steady for months.
So yeah, I don't care too much about the absolute value or fluctuations over the short term. What I want to know is whether longer term changes mean anything in terms of overall aerobic fitness.
Most people aren’t expecting laboratory accuracy from a wearable just want to see if theyre improving. Good info though
On the bike with HR chest strap and power meters I get a VO2 Max of 80.0 Three years ago it 55.0
I'm 57. My VO2 max is 1200. My watch is totally accurate. My FTP is 1750.
In the description, I can't find a link to the paper.
At 7:05 (about Vo2max as estimated by wearable going down): I don't think this explanation is true, because this isn't how the algorithm to "predict" someone's vo2max based on exercise data works.
The prediction is based on machine learning combining BOTH hr and pace.Thus during an easy run, yes your pace goes down, but so does the HR, and thus the algo should (in theory) predict a similar vo2max value than it would at an higher pace. That being said, the predictions for higher-intensity efforts tends to be more accurate. But it isn't the slowing of the pace that directly impacts a calculation, rather it is simply that sub-maximal efforts allow more variations in how and individual response.
Why can't Vo2Max be estimated by max performance? If an 80kg man runs a 5k in 22 mins then his VO2Max is higher than a 70kg guy running the same distance in 22 mins. This is what it is supposed to measure.
Damn it! I was so proud that my Garmin tells me that my VO2max is 63… Ha, ha, ha! Greta video as always. Thanks a lot for the info.
My Garmin vo2max has been steady 50 through the summer. Doesn't matter what kind of runs I do. It always does drop to 46-47 in the winter and I always wonder if it's because I'm actually more out of shape (I do drop my running distances just a bit for the winter and I commute by bicycle much less) or if it has to do with running in the snow being slower or maybe the fact that I have to wear more clothes to slow me down (and maybe heat me up too much too, as I probably often overdress in cold weather a bit). Or maybe it's a combination of all of those things.
Informative video!
Nice work 😎
My Vo2Max is according to my Garmin Fr245: 74ml/kg, but with a uncertainty of 15ml/kg, 59ml/kg still seems really high
I do not want to compare my VO2max with others, I would like to see my progress. That would be possible, if my device (Garmin) is accurate or makes the same error every time.
Could that be the case?
What about Apple watch?
i ran a 19:35 5k using my garmin 255 watch and the race predictor still says 23:36!
VR46 😎💪🏻
Is VO2 max a useful thing to know?
By all accounts, you can increase to a max level and you get there pretty quick(in months rather than years).
Are there any training programs(for amateurs especially) that make use of it to set programming?
I saw a study that showed overall volume is more important for improving v02 max
Yeah maybe, but it seems like irrelevant data to me. You find out your VO2 max and you get a kick if it's high and disappointed if it's low, but you don't really use it for anything. It's correlation to race times are low, especially in the longer distances.
Results are the real test of your progress.
What are your thoughts on the Apple Watch for health data?
Nice, if I wen't by body battery, Vo2max I would be depressed and give up on working out.
I don’t think it needs a study to know it’s a guess at best.
What you do with your VO2Max is far more important than what the actual number is....
Garmin tests VO2 MAX while running at 48, while Polar measures it while resting at 59. Go figure.
Every smartwatch is just for reference purpose. Don take it serious
Exactly. Its exact that stupid. When i compare this VO² max. number to my running partners, it is just a joke from Garmin.
Mine says 31 despite my being an ultra runner, you bet I'm not listening to the thing 😁
Btw it's more like 58 😉
Thanks for explaining these studies, so we don't have to read.. 👍
Those type of studies are the lowest level in term of scientific accuracy, take this with a pinch of salt, same as the VO2 max. As far as I am concerned the actual lab measurements were close to what the watch indicates, in fact the differences were not scientifically significant, Polar and Garmin watches also give me a similar VO2max.
Its very sad that watch companies can put a metric on that isnt even close.
How a watch reading only heart rate could estimate correctly oxygen utilization? it doesn't make any sense. It will always be an estimation if we don't use tubes and masks to read it correctly.
It is the same for stress, respiration rate and a lot of metrics that are just estimations. More metrics, more sales
To give us the best result we should use pure oxygen in the lab test.
So shouty.
Your English is so hard to understand 🥲