🦸♂ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy72 ⚖ 50% off your first suspension tuning course. Enrol now: hpcdmy.co/offery72 0:00 - What is an Anti-roll bar? 0:40 - What Are Stiffness Values 1:23 - Front Suspension Setup 2:14 - How It Works 2:46 - Stiffness Vs Softness 3:50 - What We're Measuring 4:08 - The Advantage Of Testing In The Car 4:20 - OEM Vs Purpose Built Motorsport 4:53 - Measuring 5:59 - Where Is Measured 6:13 - Outro
@@janeblogs324 Wrong. Superpro does manufacture the large majority of their own bars in Brisbane. Whiteline are manufactured by Whiteline in their factory in Vietnam. edit - basically they do all their own r&D and manufacturing not outsourced.
Is there no rubber in the shock for when it tops out or goes to maximum extension? if there is you'd be compressing this as you pull down. Ideally would the suspension be at ride height or the ARB arms horizontal when testing?
I have those same rear control arms. I'd love to hear your thoughts on adjusting the ARB wheel rate by moving the link on the arm rather than on the swaybar. What I've found on my car is that I can only use the middle hole on the bar, because I run out of articluation on the endlink, whether it's the shperical bearings in my RacerX links or the stiff poly bushing on the bottom of the whiteline endlink.
Can we see the results ? How much is the stiffness changed by changing the different position ? …is it more like 50% or change or more like 10-20% in stiffness ?
@@vollcare4076 nope, but i know there's a formula for to calute the force for hollow and full tube ARBs. pretty easy something along the difference of the diameters divide by a costant. google should be more usefull than me. I have seen most aftermarket options quotes the percentual hardness confronted to the OE. Given that OE usually are pretty easily constructed you can calculate the hardness using the formula, and so obtaing the aftermarket options' values. my 2 cents : you could even try building it yourself stealing some dimension frome the aftermarket options
How in the world are you fitting the endlink into that position with the spl lca's?? I have the same lca, rear end link sway bar kit and I can't get the endlinks to go in anywhere other than the stiffest sway bar setting without major twisting of the endlink itself. And furthermore how did you manage to get rid of preload with that geometry?
I have always wondered how they adjust the anti roll bar on the sway bar. Is it a slotted hole on the sway bar? I would love HPA to post a photo how the anti roll bar adjustment attaches to the sway bar.
@@janeblogs324 Just watched the video again in case I missed it. No they don’t show or tell how a race car adjusts the anti roll sway bars love whilst they are racing. Yes I know you can move it between the holes but what mechanism or linkage do they use to adjust it whilst they are racing.
@@Andrew260RS normal cars don't have on the fly adjustable sway bars. I don't think HP Academy tends to get into high end formula and prototype suspension technology, probably because the people who use that stuff don't tend to need an online training course.
@@Andrew260RS search YT for V8 supercars anti roll bar, as I know Mark Latham has shown this numerous times. Basic way I can try to describe it, is the A.R.B has a place design, and the cabin adjustment controls a twisting motion along the ARB. Think of it like a butter knife, hold it flat and you can bend it with your fingers, But turn it 90deg and push on the top, thin edge, and you can't deflect it at all.
Hello, i have 2 sumple questions 1-does it improve putting an adjustable sway bar link with stock suspension and stock sway bar? 2-if i put a longer sway bar link, it will force the sway bar down, so it will improve in high speed cournes? Isnt it right? And another thng, how many degrees could the sway bar go donw? Because many say it should be paralel to the ground...
My understanding/opinion: The function of an adjustable end link is to remove preload and that benefit would apply to any sway bar. Unlike most suspension adjustments, there is essentially a single correct setup for adjustable end links (neutral/no preload). Making both of the end links longer or shorter would just rotate the sway bar and extreme adjustments in that manner could cause binding. Making just one end link longer or shorter would cause the problem they are meant to solve.
If someone doesn't have access to a hoist and cant figure out another way to get the vehicle off the ground for this or other tasks, then what follows will be lost on them anyway to be blunt - Taz.
@@hpa101 Who needs subtlety if being direct is also an option 😁. This would've been a super informative video if you did this on jackstands, the camera angles would be great
@@thomgt4 why would he need to suffer on jackstands to pass on the information, if he has a hoist? Is it not super informative as it is now? Whats missing?
This type of adjustable anti roll bar does not change the overall stiffness as it can only change the leverage acting on the bar. This is then negated as the leverage ratio would be set the same on either side of the car thus cancelling any mechanical advantage gained. Only way to stiffen the ARB is to change its diameter.
That's not true. By changing the leverage on both sides you can change the torque which is applied to the ARB while cornering. Comparable to a thicker or thinner ARB without changing the leverage.
@@benen8440 more to the point: you don't necessarily need to change the _bar's_ stiffness to change the car's roll stiffness. Moving the attachment points can also achieve this
🦸♂ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy72
⚖ 50% off your first suspension tuning course. Enrol now: hpcdmy.co/offery72
0:00 - What is an Anti-roll bar?
0:40 - What Are Stiffness Values
1:23 - Front Suspension Setup
2:14 - How It Works
2:46 - Stiffness Vs Softness
3:50 - What We're Measuring
4:08 - The Advantage Of Testing In The Car
4:20 - OEM Vs Purpose Built Motorsport
4:53 - Measuring
5:59 - Where Is Measured
6:13 - Outro
That was interesting.
Taking good real world measurements is worth the effort, even when not for a simulation.
Spot on description on how it all works. Thank you. Kiwis rule!
LITERALLY was trying to figure this out this past week 🤣. Great timing guys
My friend was trying to figure this out a few days ago...
FYI Whiteline and SuperPro do offer stiffness data on their ARBs, however your method would be more certain.
@@janeblogs324 Wrong. Superpro does manufacture the large majority of their own bars in Brisbane. Whiteline are manufactured by Whiteline in their factory in Vietnam. edit - basically they do all their own r&D and manufacturing not outsourced.
@@janeblogs324 that may be 10years ago. Can confirm almost everything your saying is 100% wrong now. PM me for more details.
If want a good system you need to move the mounts for the bar up and down
Is there no rubber in the shock for when it tops out or goes to maximum extension? if there is you'd be compressing this as you pull down.
Ideally would the suspension be at ride height or the ARB arms horizontal when testing?
I have those same rear control arms. I'd love to hear your thoughts on adjusting the ARB wheel rate by moving the link on the arm rather than on the swaybar. What I've found on my car is that I can only use the middle hole on the bar, because I run out of articluation on the endlink, whether it's the shperical bearings in my RacerX links or the stiff poly bushing on the bottom of the whiteline endlink.
Great video as always, straight to do point .
Was curious how you performed the actual angle/displacement measurement. Don't see a particularly good datum to work off of in there?
I have the data for my roll bar, but have no idea what to do with it, so what’s the point?
Now i know what those extra holes on the swaybar are. I learned something, thanks HPA.
Wish you would have show. Some of the test.
Any specific aspect that was unclear Levi? I might be able to find it in some of our other content for you instead :) - Taz.
Is there a video on this simulation?
Amazing!!
Can we see the results ?
How much is the stiffness changed by changing the different position ?
…is it more like 50% or change or more like 10-20% in stiffness ?
the latter, maybe much less than 10%
@@vercingetorige400 have you done any measurements?
Or specs available?
@@vollcare4076 nope, but i know there's a formula for to calute the force for hollow and full tube ARBs. pretty easy something along the difference of the diameters divide by a costant. google should be more usefull than me. I have seen most aftermarket options quotes the percentual hardness confronted to the OE. Given that OE usually are pretty easily constructed you can calculate the hardness using the formula, and so obtaing the aftermarket options' values. my 2 cents : you could even try building it yourself stealing some dimension frome the aftermarket options
How in the world are you fitting the endlink into that position with the spl lca's?? I have the same lca, rear end link sway bar kit and I can't get the endlinks to go in anywhere other than the stiffest sway bar setting without major twisting of the endlink itself. And furthermore how did you manage to get rid of preload with that geometry?
Disconnect the ARB at its mountings , connect the fittings, then reconnect the ARB mountings back to the sub frame.
ARB stiffness measured in mN/deg
Pedantically wrong. Nm = Newton metres; mN = millinewtons.
Softer front roll bar doesn’t always reduce understeer
I wonder cant we use wheel scale to read wtg on each wheel
I have always wondered how they adjust the anti roll bar on the sway bar.
Is it a slotted hole on the sway bar? I would love HPA to post a photo how the anti roll bar adjustment attaches to the sway bar.
@@janeblogs324 Just watched the video again in case I missed it. No they don’t show or tell how a race car adjusts the anti roll sway bars love whilst they are racing.
Yes I know you can move it between the holes but what mechanism or linkage do they use to adjust it whilst they are racing.
@@Andrew260RS normal cars don't have on the fly adjustable sway bars. I don't think HP Academy tends to get into high end formula and prototype suspension technology, probably because the people who use that stuff don't tend to need an online training course.
@@Andrew260RS search YT for V8 supercars anti roll bar, as I know Mark Latham has shown this numerous times. Basic way I can try to describe it, is the A.R.B has a place design, and the cabin adjustment controls a twisting motion along the ARB.
Think of it like a butter knife, hold it flat and you can bend it with your fingers,
But turn it 90deg and push on the top, thin edge, and you can't deflect it at all.
Hello, i have 2 sumple questions
1-does it improve putting an adjustable sway bar link with stock suspension and stock sway bar?
2-if i put a longer sway bar link, it will force the sway bar down, so it will improve in high speed cournes? Isnt it right?
And another thng, how many degrees could the sway bar go donw? Because many say it should be paralel to the ground...
My understanding/opinion: The function of an adjustable end link is to remove preload and that benefit would apply to any sway bar. Unlike most suspension adjustments, there is essentially a single correct setup for adjustable end links (neutral/no preload). Making both of the end links longer or shorter would just rotate the sway bar and extreme adjustments in that manner could cause binding. Making just one end link longer or shorter would cause the problem they are meant to solve.
@@lavachemist Thank you a lot
No expensive equipment.
"So here's the hoist"
If someone doesn't have access to a hoist and cant figure out another way to get the vehicle off the ground for this or other tasks, then what follows will be lost on them anyway to be blunt - Taz.
@@hpa101 Who needs subtlety if being direct is also an option 😁. This would've been a super informative video if you did this on jackstands, the camera angles would be great
@@thomgt4 why would he need to suffer on jackstands to pass on the information, if he has a hoist? Is it not super informative as it is now? Whats missing?
This type of adjustable anti roll bar does not change the overall stiffness as it can only change the leverage acting on the bar. This is then negated as the leverage ratio would be set the same on either side of the car thus cancelling any mechanical advantage gained. Only way to stiffen the ARB is to change its diameter.
That's not true. By changing the leverage on both sides you can change the torque which is applied to the ARB while cornering. Comparable to a thicker or thinner ARB without changing the leverage.
@@benen8440 more to the point: you don't necessarily need to change the _bar's_ stiffness to change the car's roll stiffness. Moving the attachment points can also achieve this
I dont understand why people need to film themselves talking