Idk if comparing the overall monitoring latency to the human reaction time really makes sense. I think at the end of the day, what counts is the overall time from when the subject moves to when the follow focus motor moves in response, which is a chain where the human reaction time is one of the components (as well as monitor latency and wireless follow focus latency). In video games it's kinda the same way. If you buy all the best hardware, you can probably cut off around 60ms from the overall system latency. That's less than your reaction time, but your reaction time + system latency will be less than that of your competitors on cheap hardware, giving you an advantage.
I see what you're saying, yeah. And yes, it would totally contribute to the overall delay. I was thinking about it more as in our ability to perceive it. As in, can you notice the difference between 50 and 100ms? Suggesting that the added latency, if it's small enough, won't mess with your brain too badly. And I think it only starts to become noticeable and bothersome after that 180ms point. But yes, ideally, you want a total chain latency to be as low as possible.
@@geraldundone That's fair, the question of "can you notice the latency" is a totally legitimate question to ask. At least in my experience, you should be able to notice latencies even at 50-100ms, but admittedly for the task of focus pulling, that going from 150ms to 50ms might not make a meaningful difference in the final product.
Yeah, got to agree that the comparison doesnt make much sense. But I´d also say that around 150ms delay is absolutly useable. If you pull focus on a commercial, short film or something similar you usually have multiple trys and you can adjust accordingly and after all you should always practice with the setup you are using, so you should be used to the latency. If I may use your videogame-analogy: I used to play a lot of smash bros on the gamecube and when I tried to switch to an emulator it was quiet ruff at first, but after a few days I was used to it. Of course there is a limit to that and latency is not something to be ignored, but I dont have a real grasp on how much latency is too much. But still a big difference between latency in gaming and shooting on set: Its not a competition and having low latency is not an advantage. If the latency is not so big, that it distracts you, you can pull focus just as good.
@@ShiroTheRedLightning "Its not a competition and having low latency is not an advantage" - mm, I must beg to differ. It IS a competition - between 1st ACs available in the local employment market. And it IS a dis/advantage, as every extra take made necessary by missed focus costs money somewhere down the line. That said, you're right overall - the staged, practiced moves as usually seen in commercials and films definitely make pulling focus easier. Then again, every 1st AC can tell you nightmare stories of DPs demanding 85mm T1.5 closeups of method actors who simply can't stay still, much less hit their marks....
Damn it Gerald, your relationship with other creators on this platform only makes me love you more. I think it's important that you made it super clear that this was a sponsored video and I also notice that you called it a 'product showcase' and not a review. Great video as always
So I wanted to make an overall more coherent comment about this. From what I understand, while human beings can't respond faster however many miliseconds with our hands, we can see and hear faster, and that the latency relates to hand eye coordination. With that in mind, I don't think many focus pullers are judging critical focus reactively. Most will say that they try to be predictive about focus, and feel it out as a flowing moving thing. The same way I would boom operate. For that reason latency this large becomes unusable, not because they can react faster than the latency, but because it will delay perception of the action. Another big issue with latency would relate to client monitoring. I cannot count how many films I've worked on where the director will lay into the DIT/Video Playback if the video isn't in sync with the audio feed they are getting from the sound mixer. That's kinda where these entry level devices fall apart. Though as you said, those larger productions are using higher end systems, but for any application I would use something like this (for youtube and vlogging, you could use hdmi for monitoring, or a long sdi cable so wireless isn't really required) such as a short film/indie/doc I would still need better latency for the afformentioned reasons, particularly client monitoring.
9:04. The iOS iPad streaming facility is a godsend. Yesterday, I was doing a corporate live stream form client offices, when the Kiloview streamer ground to a halt and wouldn't even let us access it via the broswer GUI. I was using the Accsoon to monitor and meter the feed, so I quickly entered in the rtmp url and streamkey and within a minute we were streaning via the 4G sim in our iPad, with no discernable loss of quality (luckily, we had full bars and a solid 4G connection). Utterly amazing. Also handy is that you can ISO record to the iPad's internal SSD, so it's win-win.
Super good timing! I was just looking for wireless video system for my live streaming setups for weddings and events :) Just ordered this one! Thanks for the video!
Thanks mate, always be my 1st buying guide LoL. Im a long time subscribers since that long hair and old studio, really love ur videos quality Keep it up. Cheer's and greetings from Indonesia, pardon my english bit messy 😁
I agree with T Freeman. The human reaction time starts when the human perceives the event, but that only happens once the change occurs on the monitor. Soooo, one has to ADD the human reaction time to the latency of the system the human is watching to perceive the change. These are serial events, not parallel events, therefore you want the latency of the electronic system to be as short as possible. The only way they could be parallel events is if the focus puller was watching the actual subject to initiate the change and moved the focus to a prearranged focus mark (assuming the subject's motion has been preprogrammed and is predictable).
I just grabbed their first CineEye model, the basic internal battery one. It was $100 off on B&H. Theres a little latency but god damn, the range is surprising!
Awesome G! I’m a big fan of Accsoon and have been happily reviewing and using their transmitters for a couple of years! The pass through comes in handy on the hdmi version 👌🏻
Hey man, been watching you for years! Me and the Misses watched Road house tonight for the first time and one of the bouncers reminded me of you! If you haven't seen it have a look and I think you will see the guy we are thinking about!
@Gerald Undone As always great video and great content! Just curious, why were you wearing a facemask out in the open where there seems to be no people around you?
I am considering Accsoon CineEye 2S Pro but not sure of the compression of the video, Hollyland Mars 400S PRO 12mbs and 80ms delay, CVW Swift 800Prom 70ms & SDI/HDMI on TX. So if the data rateality is at leas 25 more better Accsoon CineEye 2S Pro might be the way to go.
I have the CineEye and I love it. It's nice to have my iPad become a monitor with false color and focus peaking instead of buying a dedicated monitor. Wish OBS or someone else would make software so I could just plug my camera into my computer monitor and have those features
It’s not that much bigger than the cineeye 2. It’s just the antenna are huge. You can replace them with stubby ones if you don’t mind have a shorter range.
Awesome video, as always. I might be having to investigate these for second wireless setup. Seems very well specced out, the app is very similar to the Z-Cam app from I could see (which is a good thing!)
Hi Gerald, I would love an entire review/comparison between the various video transmitters systems available. I’m on the search for an usable entry level solution for pull focus remotely. What’s the fastest available? Thanks for all your content and have a great day :)
Hey mate, what did you end up getting? I just got the CineEye 2 (not pro) because the latency is no different to the Pro, it's not zero (teradeck) but it's also 1/5th the price and works with phones - so for me I'm not willing to spend 5x just yet
I love everything here but it is worth noting about reaction times I think it should be thought of as additive and not as compensated. If the latency is lower than human reaction time, it doesn't mean it won't be noticeable. If a ballpark of human reaction time is ~250ms and the latency of the feed is ~150ms it makes the 'shot reaction' about an additive ~400ms. The reason gamers like and benefit from ultra fast refresh rates is that, even though the human reaction times are unchanged, by giving your eyes the earliest possible input data (10-20ms faster or more current data), your brain can latch on to a more updated piece of information while it makes decisions and react more accurately as it makes calculations. Essentially the lead time still makes a difference as we attempt to affect what is happening real-time. Looking at latency and reaction time as additive paints a good picture for where latency is too detrimental for someone like a focus puller seeing and reacting to what comes in to their monitor. It seems as a rule that the latency should be at most 1/3 of the human reaction time. Sub100ms of latency for a focus puller is probably more than good enough in most situations.
Yes, you're absolutely right. I pinned a comment about this. I was focusing on perception of latency, but my structure created a gap in logic that I fell straight into. Heh. 😜👍
@geraldundone could you clarify if the app works with up to 4 ios devices on the version 2s not just the 2s pro? would there be any reason to get the 2s pro if you dont plan on using the receiver w/ a monitor but just using ipads? when recording through the app onto the mobile device, does the camera still record internally on sony? thank you for all the content you produce!
Since the original Accsoon Cine Eye 1 works whit up to 4 IOS devices The only one that send only two signals is the CineEye Air. The Mobile Device only records the transmition. It dosent have control over HDMI to the camera.
1:24 what does it mean that the new transmitter doesn’t offer the “pass-through” feature that the other hdmi only version offers? what is pass-through and what is it used for?
On many dslr cameras, the display goes off when you shoot in 4k and same time take video via hdmi. Then then pass-trough will come in handy. It will be possible to connect a separate monitor
Good review Gerald. I wonder how much would be the total latency if you used the SDI in & out, let's say using 2 SmallHD monitors. Have you tried something similar by any chance?
@@karl_raymond I found SDI and HDMI to be identical. In my video I used both HDMI & SDI with my 702 touch. The only thing that affected latency for me in my tests were frame rate, basically double the latency, and when I added an Android to the set up when iOS was already being broadcast to. I also did SDI out to the newer SmallHd Focus pro and had the same results as the 702 touch. Sdi is a better connection for security but it seems to make no difference in speed in these types of set ups. I spent about 5 days doing the tests so I feel confident saying this.
My question is this, I'd like to shoot 8k from the a1 into the Ninja V+ and send that signal with a transmitter to a monitor. Both the transmitter and monitor only work in 1080. Will this convert my 8k signal from an HDMI out on the ninja to 1080 so that the monitor can process the signal? Silly question but I'm trying to up my production without spending 20k on transmitters and monitors.
Hey Gerald ... I just purchased the CineEyes 2s and have noticed a significant desaturated (pretty blah) image on my iPhone 12, iPad Pro, and even the loop output from my Flanders DM240. My Pocket 6k Pro feeding my SmallHD Touch looks fine. The iPhone 12 and iPad Pros are "P3" ...so, you would think that those devices would look great. No such luck. It's like the gamma is off. I even changed the output of Resolve > Flanders loop to gamma 2.2. No noticeable difference. I am baffled. Accsoon tech support has not been of any help. I could build a LUT to correct what seems to be gamma weirdness on top of the Rec. 709 feed and put it into the CineEyes 2s (royal pain), but that seems lame. Have you noticed the desaturated image? This would not fly with a client.
I need to find replacement antenna for cineeye 2s pro. But they don’t sell them. I tried calling and emailing. Any third party products of other brands will work?
Is the point about latency and human reaction times really valid though? Don't you still want as low latency as possible, as your own latency is just added on top of the HDMI chains latency. So clearly an ideal 0 ms in latency will greatly aid a focus puller compared to 150 ms connection chain. Or am I completely missing something here. :)
I see what you're saying, yeah. And yes, it would totally contribute to the overall delay. I was thinking about it more as in our ability to perceive it. As in, can you notice the difference between 50 and 100ms? Suggesting that the added latency, if it's small enough, won't mess with your brain too badly. And I think it only starts to become noticeable and bothersome after that 180ms point. But yes, ideally, you want a total chain latency to be as low as possible.
@@geraldundone Ahh, I understand now. I think that is a totally valid point also and something worth taking into account. Thanks for the review - It's nice to see more companies doing wireless video transmission for prosumers and professionals.
Can cineeye 2s pro receiver unit accept video signals from cineeye 2s? I want to attatch smaller 2s to my camera and still use the hdmi receiver. It has same 5ghz range so I wish it works....
Saw so many review but no one have actually shown real output quality of this transmitter. Even youtuber with lakhs of subscriberd are not taking this much efforts.
I really wanted to get one pair to transmit our drone footage. But then I thought, can I grab my receiver, walk by Gerald's set where he records some super secret footage, that will make him world famous once released, tune into his sender and record or even live stream what he captures without him even noticing (unless he checks the number of connected devices on the sender's display)?
good, if I connect the camera to the transmitter via sdi and the receiver to the monitor via hdmi, does it come out? or only hdmi to hdmi and sdi to sdi? thank you
Gerald, I hope you'll allow a somewhat related and utterly nerdy query that involves an older but still popular camera: The GH5--and its external monitoring limitations. I've mulled over HDMI-SDI conversions (with transmitters similar to your lovely new kit), but realized the HDMI port on the GH5 is the only way out to anything else--and it frankly sucks. Here's the issue: I found out the hard way that the GH5, which was actively promoted as 6k anamorphic capable, cannot view or record this resolution externally. I've been using the Anamorphot 1.33x adapter to get 6k squeezed/de-squeezed to near-16x9 (for lots of pixels in post), but I can't see a thing on the external monitor once I hit record because the HDMI-out on the GH5 can (apparently) only do 4k. To add insult to injury, the GH5 de-squeeze option only works with full 2x adapters (all other anamorphic formats are "off"), so the image is squeezed on the camera's LCD while recording. Only solution is to use Panasonic's Image app which eats half the screen real estate with controls, or, as I'm currently doing, use Adam Wilt's FieldMonitor which allows full screen viewing on a smartphone or tablet and proper de-squeeze for all anamorphic formats. It's beyond me why Panasonic didn't release or at least update the GH5's HDMI to v2.1 to allow higher resolutions. Any ideas how to get higher-res monitoring? Like HDMI to SDI adapter? Might be worth an enormously popular, record-busting video with the clickbait title "Does 6k on the GH5 actually SUCK?". ;-)
Some of y’all in here really bothered about the latency thing lol. Keep telling him your detailed opinions please as I’m sure he’s going to make a revised video on latency with all your opinions breaking it down
Hello Gerald, excuse my daring, I have an Atomos ninja 2 and I can't communicate it with the A7C or the A7Slll, to record in HD -ProRes, yes, as a monitor, what would the setting be ??? Thank you very much in advance, hug from Argentina
hahaha, kinda start to curious if they don't pay for it just sending you a free product, will you still agree with doing the showcase？BUT ANYWAY！Your testing way in this video is professional, not to mention the way that you expound, can't love it more!!
That 120ms explanation was kinda flawed. No matter your reaction time, its 120ms added to the whole chain of commands. If you receive it 120ms later, you can start reacting 120ms later. So in a perfect 0ms scenario, you'd be 120ms faster with the focus pull no matter your reaction time. Simply because the information hits your brain faster, the rest is up to you then. That aside, as a gamer the difference between 10ms and 120ms is so huge, it becomes unplayable. Nothing to do with reaction time but rather information hitting your eyes.
In regards to human perception and latency: Even though the human eye can’t tell the difference btwn 100ms and 1ms, a system with 100ms delay will still start the chain of human reaction 99ms later than a 1ms system
I don’t think the latency is acceptable for live streaming. That will put the wireless camera 4 frames (at 25P for example) out of sync with any hard wired cameras. That will put lip sync dramatically out of sync. This will be less noticeable at 50 or 60fps but still not invisible. The Teradek ATOM 500 kit is not much more and even though HDMI only seems a better bet for that application.
Hi Guys or girls, I work normally with Livestream Studio's and 3 Mevo Wireless camera's and this works pretty ok for livestreaming in fixed positions. But I like to have one or more mobile cams. can i use this without receiver units as cam 4 and maybe 5 by only buying the Accsoon CineEye 2S Pro. I use my IMac as directors site and use my own wifi signal that uploads 30 mbs
Hello! Thank you for the review. Does anyone have experience using 2-3 of the accsoon or holiland wireless systems at the same time in the same room. I mean for 2-3 cameras/transmitters. Is the connection stable? Do you get more artefacts?
Nobody seems to test these wireless video kits with more than 1 unit in the same environment! How does it perform if you 3 or 4 pairs in the same environment? Imagine live streaming a graduation ceremony or something with at least a few mobile cameras.
I wish they sold just the transmitter. From what I can tell getting the app only model does not give same path to upgrading as if they sold just this model's transmitter. When I go from small production monitors to live hdmi transmission I could buy the receiver half when I need it. As it stands I either go for a short-term dead end or double down and over buy now.
Hi Gerald, I have a lens question for you that comes from one of your previous videos about lens pupils / diameter / F stop etc... Anyone else who would also like to answer this, please feel free... If a 50mm F4 has a 12.5mm pupil and a 25mm F4 has a 6.25mm pupil, then how do they let in the same amount of light wide open? Shouldn't the 50 let in more? I'm basing my question from my assumption that the same F stop, let's in the same amount of light, no matter the focal length. I believe my assumption is correct on that, but it then doesn't make sense to me that they would let in the same amount of light, if the 25mm has a smaller diameter lens pupil? Thanks
@@geraldundone my intention is to put it between the ninja v on my camera and the atem mini ...i know the ninja v hdmi out is sometimes picky on devices it will work with.... can you test this chain?
I'm hoping someone can answer this question: If I connect a wireless HDMI system that is rated for 1080p 60fps, to a NINJA V's HDMI output, outputting 4K, will the wireless system convert it to 1080p 60fps or will it just not work? My intention is to use the NINJA V as my main monitor, but use the HDMI output of the NINJA V for an external monitor wirelessly for directors, clients etc. So the connection line is: A7s iii > 4K HDMI > NINJA V Then that NINJA V > wireless HDMI system > Shinobi Monitor
Idk if comparing the overall monitoring latency to the human reaction time really makes sense. I think at the end of the day, what counts is the overall time from when the subject moves to when the follow focus motor moves in response, which is a chain where the human reaction time is one of the components (as well as monitor latency and wireless follow focus latency).
In video games it's kinda the same way. If you buy all the best hardware, you can probably cut off around 60ms from the overall system latency. That's less than your reaction time, but your reaction time + system latency will be less than that of your competitors on cheap hardware, giving you an advantage.
I see what you're saying, yeah. And yes, it would totally contribute to the overall delay. I was thinking about it more as in our ability to perceive it. As in, can you notice the difference between 50 and 100ms? Suggesting that the added latency, if it's small enough, won't mess with your brain too badly. And I think it only starts to become noticeable and bothersome after that 180ms point. But yes, ideally, you want a total chain latency to be as low as possible.
@@geraldundone That's fair, the question of "can you notice the latency" is a totally legitimate question to ask. At least in my experience, you should be able to notice latencies even at 50-100ms, but admittedly for the task of focus pulling, that going from 150ms to 50ms might not make a meaningful difference in the final product.
Here's a fun note: I never knew my regular HDMI setup even had latency until I did this test.
Yeah, got to agree that the comparison doesnt make much sense.
But I´d also say that around 150ms delay is absolutly useable.
If you pull focus on a commercial, short film or something similar you usually have multiple trys and you can adjust accordingly and after all you should always practice with the setup you are using, so you should be used to the latency.
If I may use your videogame-analogy: I used to play a lot of smash bros on the gamecube and when I tried to switch to an emulator it was quiet ruff at first, but after a few days I was used to it.
Of course there is a limit to that and latency is not something to be ignored, but I dont have a real grasp on how much latency is too much.
But still a big difference between latency in gaming and shooting on set: Its not a competition and having low latency is not an advantage. If the latency is not so big, that it distracts you, you can pull focus just as good.
@@ShiroTheRedLightning "Its not a competition and having low latency is not an advantage" - mm, I must beg to differ. It IS a competition - between 1st ACs available in the local employment market. And it IS a dis/advantage, as every extra take made necessary by missed focus costs money somewhere down the line. That said, you're right overall - the staged, practiced moves as usually seen in commercials and films definitely make pulling focus easier. Then again, every 1st AC can tell you nightmare stories of DPs demanding 85mm T1.5 closeups of method actors who simply can't stay still, much less hit their marks....
Despite your TERRIBLE click bait title this is easily the best cold open you’ve ever made for a video! 🤔
🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣 I was wondering if he saw this Video.
Brilliant 😂😂😂
Damn it Gerald, your relationship with other creators on this platform only makes me love you more. I think it's important that you made it super clear that this was a sponsored video and I also notice that you called it a 'product showcase' and not a review. Great video as always
I love that you are including Philip Bloom in your videos. He is such a talented and knowledgeable guy. Great video as usual by the way!
"You're not the boss of me!" Made me laugh out loud. Well done.
Storyblocks is looking in from the rain.
lmao!
LOL
Gerald, why is it that you post a video of the exact topic I'm looking for a week in advance everytime!
Thank you again!
So I wanted to make an overall more coherent comment about this. From what I understand, while human beings can't respond faster however many miliseconds with our hands, we can see and hear faster, and that the latency relates to hand eye coordination. With that in mind, I don't think many focus pullers are judging critical focus reactively. Most will say that they try to be predictive about focus, and feel it out as a flowing moving thing. The same way I would boom operate. For that reason latency this large becomes unusable, not because they can react faster than the latency, but because it will delay perception of the action. Another big issue with latency would relate to client monitoring. I cannot count how many films I've worked on where the director will lay into the DIT/Video Playback if the video isn't in sync with the audio feed they are getting from the sound mixer. That's kinda where these entry level devices fall apart. Though as you said, those larger productions are using higher end systems, but for any application I would use something like this (for youtube and vlogging, you could use hdmi for monitoring, or a long sdi cable so wireless isn't really required) such as a short film/indie/doc I would still need better latency for the afformentioned reasons, particularly client monitoring.
We love our cineeye 2 Pro! The range is fantastic. Only gripe is the single mounting point. (We did the train tunnel vid 😅)
This is the best overall youtube channel period.
Very good to learn that the latency decreases when you output the feed at a higher framerate, I'm curious if the Blackmagic cameras can do this.
HOW DOES @GERALD UNDONE NOT HAVE OVER A MILLION SUBS YET??!!!
9:04. The iOS iPad streaming facility is a godsend. Yesterday, I was doing a corporate live stream form client offices, when the Kiloview streamer ground to a halt and wouldn't even let us access it via the broswer GUI. I was using the Accsoon to monitor and meter the feed, so I quickly entered in the rtmp url and streamkey and within a minute we were streaning via the 4G sim in our iPad, with no discernable loss of quality (luckily, we had full bars and a solid 4G connection). Utterly amazing. Also handy is that you can ISO record to the iPad's internal SSD, so it's win-win.
Super good timing! I was just looking for wireless video system for my live streaming setups for weddings and events :) Just ordered this one! Thanks for the video!
Great content as usual. I subscribed and gave you a thumbs up. Love the details of your videos.
Knowledge, trustworthy opinion, and precise explanations.
Gerald Undone, everybody.
Like your channel mate, you come across genuinely just like you're being yourself which is how I try to do my content. Subbed!
Thanks mate, always be my 1st buying guide LoL. Im a long time subscribers since that long hair and old studio, really love ur videos quality Keep it up. Cheer's and greetings from Indonesia, pardon my english bit messy 😁
I'm Gerald Undone and Wait, I'm coming undone
Irate, I'm coming undone
Too late, I'm coming undone (Korn's song Coming Undone lol)
This is the best i have learned about this device thanks man. Great review sir 👍
I agree with T Freeman. The human reaction time starts when the human perceives the event, but that only happens once the change occurs on the monitor. Soooo, one has to ADD the human reaction time to the latency of the system the human is watching to perceive the change. These are serial events, not parallel events, therefore you want the latency of the electronic system to be as short as possible. The only way they could be parallel events is if the focus puller was watching the actual subject to initiate the change and moved the focus to a prearranged focus mark (assuming the subject's motion has been preprogrammed and is predictable).
I just grabbed their first CineEye model, the basic internal battery one. It was $100 off on B&H. Theres a little latency but god damn, the range is surprising!
Great video,keep it up!🎙
Awesome G! I’m a big fan of Accsoon and have been happily reviewing and using their transmitters for a couple of years! The pass through comes in handy on the hdmi version 👌🏻
I’ve been enjoying your videos on them Phillip
I’m Gerald Undone, and I speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
I love your sense of humor
Hey man, been watching you for years! Me and the Misses watched Road house tonight for the first time and one of the bouncers reminded me of you! If you haven't seen it have a look and I think you will see the guy we are thinking about!
@Gerald Undone As always great video and great content! Just curious, why were you wearing a facemask out in the open where there seems to be no people around you?
I am considering Accsoon CineEye 2S Pro but not sure of the compression of the video, Hollyland Mars 400S PRO 12mbs and 80ms delay, CVW Swift 800Prom 70ms & SDI/HDMI on TX. So if the data rateality is at leas 25 more better Accsoon CineEye 2S Pro might be the way to go.
I have the CineEye and I love it. It's nice to have my iPad become a monitor with false color and focus peaking instead of buying a dedicated monitor. Wish OBS or someone else would make software so I could just plug my camera into my computer monitor and have those features
Do you think this equipment could be used for a live switch set up given the latency? Used in a live concert situation for example...
Finally, some gear that makes my camera look like it's having a bad hair day. 😂
Still waiting for the bmpcc6k pro review from you.😅⚡
AMAZING this is the (droid) video I was looking for TY!
It isn't the concrete that blocks the signal, but the steel rebar in the concrete. The rebar essentially creates a Faraday cage.
GERALD UNDONE strikes again. That transmitter looks gigantic...I'd love to see a direct comparison between the CineEye 2S Pro vs a higher end Teradek.
It’s not that much bigger than the cineeye 2. It’s just the antenna are huge. You can replace them with stubby ones if you don’t mind have a shorter range.
The CineEye PRO 2S is amazing!
Interesting! Nice video. ✌️
"My name is Gerald Undone and is it really clickbait if you were going to click it anyway?"
Dammit Gerald, you didn't have to do yourself like that in the intro 😂😂😂
„Hi, I’m Gerald Undone and when I’m watching TH-cam, I set the playback speed to 125%“
Are you still using Leeming luts for the A1? Which one if I may please ask?
Any possibility to output the applied LUTS to the receiver? Or would a real monitor like FEELWORLD be able to do that?
Awesome video, as always. I might be having to investigate these for second wireless setup. Seems very well specced out, the app is very similar to the Z-Cam app from I could see (which is a good thing!)
Hi Gerald, I would love an entire review/comparison between the various video transmitters systems available. I’m on the search for an usable entry level solution for pull focus remotely. What’s the fastest available? Thanks for all your content and have a great day :)
Hey mate, what did you end up getting? I just got the CineEye 2 (not pro) because the latency is no different to the Pro, it's not zero (teradeck) but it's also 1/5th the price and works with phones - so for me I'm not willing to spend 5x just yet
I love everything here but it is worth noting about reaction times I think it should be thought of as additive and not as compensated. If the latency is lower than human reaction time, it doesn't mean it won't be noticeable. If a ballpark of human reaction time is ~250ms and the latency of the feed is ~150ms it makes the 'shot reaction' about an additive ~400ms.
The reason gamers like and benefit from ultra fast refresh rates is that, even though the human reaction times are unchanged, by giving your eyes the earliest possible input data (10-20ms faster or more current data), your brain can latch on to a more updated piece of information while it makes decisions and react more accurately as it makes calculations. Essentially the lead time still makes a difference as we attempt to affect what is happening real-time. Looking at latency and reaction time as additive paints a good picture for where latency is too detrimental for someone like a focus puller seeing and reacting to what comes in to their monitor. It seems as a rule that the latency should be at most 1/3 of the human reaction time. Sub100ms of latency for a focus puller is probably more than good enough in most situations.
Yes, you're absolutely right. I pinned a comment about this. I was focusing on perception of latency, but my structure created a gap in logic that I fell straight into. Heh. 😜👍
Quick question about the APP: are you able to remove all overlays and just show a clean feed on the smartphone/tablet?
Can u share signal to multiple devices? Like phone, small hd monitor etc?
@geraldundone could you clarify if the app works with up to 4 ios devices on the version 2s not just the 2s pro? would there be any reason to get the 2s pro if you dont plan on using the receiver w/ a monitor but just using ipads? when recording through the app onto the mobile device, does the camera still record internally on sony? thank you for all the content you produce!
Since the original Accsoon Cine Eye 1 works whit up to 4 IOS devices
The only one that send only two signals is the CineEye Air.
The Mobile Device only records the transmition.
It dosent have control over HDMI to the camera.
Would it work with Apps like VUER for monitoring ref?
Could you do a comparison of this against the new Hollyland C1?
1:24 what does it mean that the new transmitter doesn’t offer the “pass-through” feature that the other hdmi only version offers? what is pass-through and what is it used for?
On many dslr cameras, the display goes off when you shoot in 4k and same time take video via hdmi. Then then pass-trough will come in handy. It will be possible to connect a separate monitor
Please which is better, the Swift 800pro or the accsoon sdi 1200?
Good review Gerald. I wonder how much would be the total latency if you used the SDI in & out, let's say using 2 SmallHD monitors. Have you tried something similar by any chance?
You mean the in on the TX and out on the RX?
@@philipbloom yes exactly. Going through the SDI ports should help the overall latency in theory.
@@karl_raymond I found SDI and HDMI to be identical. In my video I used both HDMI & SDI with my 702 touch. The only thing that affected latency for me in my tests were frame rate, basically double the latency, and when I added an Android to the set up when iOS was already being broadcast to.
I also did SDI out to the newer SmallHd Focus pro and had the same results as the 702 touch. Sdi is a better connection for security but it seems to make no difference in speed in these types of set ups. I spent about 5 days doing the tests so I feel confident saying this.
@@philipbloom Interesting. Thanks for the reply.
@@karl_raymond I think with the HDMI 2.0 the speed has increased as well as the data capacity.
Gerald, you gotta cop that purple iPhone 12 mini!
Gerald should start a sister channel where he does make-up tutorials. He could call it........Gerald Done Up
My question is this, I'd like to shoot 8k from the a1 into the Ninja V+ and send that signal with a transmitter to a monitor. Both the transmitter and monitor only work in 1080. Will this convert my 8k signal from an HDMI out on the ninja to 1080 so that the monitor can process the signal? Silly question but I'm trying to up my production without spending 20k on transmitters and monitors.
Hey Gerald ... I just purchased the CineEyes 2s and have noticed a significant desaturated (pretty blah) image on my iPhone 12, iPad Pro, and even the loop output from my Flanders DM240. My Pocket 6k Pro feeding my SmallHD Touch looks fine. The iPhone 12 and iPad Pros are "P3" ...so, you would think that those devices would look great. No such luck. It's like the gamma is off. I even changed the output of Resolve > Flanders loop to gamma 2.2. No noticeable difference. I am baffled. Accsoon tech support has not been of any help. I could build a LUT to correct what seems to be gamma weirdness on top of the Rec. 709 feed and put it into the CineEyes 2s (royal pain), but that seems lame. Have you noticed the desaturated image? This would not fly with a client.
Can you add a transmitter to the s2 if later decide to mix ios devices and atomos ninja v recording ,monitoring, ? Thanks
where is the link for the blue HDMI cable that is coiled up?
can i use it as camera source for my live streaming in obs or ecamm ?
I need to find replacement antenna for cineeye 2s pro. But they don’t sell them. I tried calling and emailing. Any third party products of other brands will work?
Is the point about latency and human reaction times really valid though? Don't you still want as low latency as possible, as your own latency is just added on top of the HDMI chains latency. So clearly an ideal 0 ms in latency will greatly aid a focus puller compared to 150 ms connection chain. Or am I completely missing something here. :)
I see what you're saying, yeah. And yes, it would totally contribute to the overall delay. I was thinking about it more as in our ability to perceive it. As in, can you notice the difference between 50 and 100ms? Suggesting that the added latency, if it's small enough, won't mess with your brain too badly. And I think it only starts to become noticeable and bothersome after that 180ms point. But yes, ideally, you want a total chain latency to be as low as possible.
@@geraldundone Ahh, I understand now. I think that is a totally valid point also and something worth taking into account. Thanks for the review - It's nice to see more companies doing wireless video transmission for prosumers and professionals.
Hi, is it fast enought use for follow focus?
What happens if it is oriented in a weird way? Should I always point up?
Can cineeye 2s pro receiver unit accept video signals from cineeye 2s? I want to attatch smaller 2s to my camera and still use the hdmi receiver. It has same 5ghz range so I wish it works....
Saw so many review but no one have actually shown real output quality of this transmitter. Even youtuber with lakhs of subscriberd are not taking this much efforts.
I really wanted to get one pair to transmit our drone footage. But then I thought, can I grab my receiver, walk by Gerald's set where he records some super secret footage, that will make him world famous once released, tune into his sender and record or even live stream what he captures without him even noticing (unless he checks the number of connected devices on the sender's display)?
good, if I connect the camera to the transmitter via sdi and the receiver to the monitor via hdmi, does it come out? or only hdmi to hdmi and sdi to sdi? thank you
Gerald, I hope you'll allow a somewhat related and utterly nerdy query that involves an older but still popular camera: The GH5--and its external monitoring limitations. I've mulled over HDMI-SDI conversions (with transmitters similar to your lovely new kit), but realized the HDMI port on the GH5 is the only way out to anything else--and it frankly sucks. Here's the issue: I found out the hard way that the GH5, which was actively promoted as 6k anamorphic capable, cannot view or record this resolution externally. I've been using the Anamorphot 1.33x adapter to get 6k squeezed/de-squeezed to near-16x9 (for lots of pixels in post), but I can't see a thing on the external monitor once I hit record because the HDMI-out on the GH5 can (apparently) only do 4k. To add insult to injury, the GH5 de-squeeze option only works with full 2x adapters (all other anamorphic formats are "off"), so the image is squeezed on the camera's LCD while recording. Only solution is to use Panasonic's Image app which eats half the screen real estate with controls, or, as I'm currently doing, use Adam Wilt's FieldMonitor which allows full screen viewing on a smartphone or tablet and proper de-squeeze for all anamorphic formats. It's beyond me why Panasonic didn't release or at least update the GH5's HDMI to v2.1 to allow higher resolutions. Any ideas how to get higher-res monitoring? Like HDMI to SDI adapter? Might be worth an enormously popular, record-busting video with the clickbait title "Does 6k on the GH5 actually SUCK?". ;-)
Some of y’all in here really bothered about the latency thing lol. Keep telling him your detailed opinions please as I’m sure he’s going to make a revised video on latency with all your opinions breaking it down
What I learned from this video: Philip Bloom keeps getting more British as the years go by.
Hello Gerald, excuse my daring, I have an Atomos ninja 2 and I can't communicate it with the A7C or the A7Slll, to record in HD -ProRes, yes, as a monitor, what would the setting be ??? Thank you very much in advance, hug from Argentina
this is incredible for the price. wow
hahaha, kinda start to curious if they don't pay for it just sending you a free product, will you still agree with doing the showcase？BUT ANYWAY！Your testing way in this video is professional, not to mention the way that you expound, can't love it more!!
For solo content creators, is their any benefits/needs to having a wireless video system? This is new to me I have no idea.
I'm Gerald Undone and I let the bag out of the cat.
But, can you rig more than 1 cam with only one receiver?
That 120ms explanation was kinda flawed. No matter your reaction time, its 120ms added to the whole chain of commands. If you receive it 120ms later, you can start reacting 120ms later. So in a perfect 0ms scenario, you'd be 120ms faster with the focus pull no matter your reaction time. Simply because the information hits your brain faster, the rest is up to you then.
That aside, as a gamer the difference between 10ms and 120ms is so huge, it becomes unplayable. Nothing to do with reaction time but rather information hitting your eyes.
„Hi, I’m Gerald Undone and this video’s playback speed is already set to 75%“
Hi ! Do you know how to import luts to the app ?
In regards to human perception and latency:
Even though the human eye can’t tell the difference btwn 100ms and 1ms, a system with 100ms delay will still start the chain of human reaction 99ms later than a 1ms system
Great thumbnail
I don’t think the latency is acceptable for live streaming. That will put the wireless camera 4 frames (at 25P for example) out of sync with any hard wired cameras. That will put lip sync dramatically out of sync. This will be less noticeable at 50 or 60fps but still not invisible. The Teradek ATOM 500 kit is not much more and even though HDMI only seems a better bet for that application.
YOU SHOULD TEST IT WITH SDI CABLE
Hi Guys or girls, I work normally with Livestream Studio's and 3 Mevo Wireless camera's and this works pretty ok for livestreaming in fixed positions. But I like to have one or more mobile cams. can i use this without receiver units as cam 4 and maybe 5 by only buying the Accsoon CineEye 2S Pro. I use my IMac as directors site and use my own wifi signal that uploads 30 mbs
I'm Gerald Undone, and I read my junk mail.
Hello! Thank you for the review. Does anyone have experience using 2-3 of the accsoon or holiland wireless systems at the same time in the same room. I mean for 2-3 cameras/transmitters. Is the connection stable? Do you get more artefacts?
Yes you can do that with CineEye 2 Pro or CineEye 2S Pro, but make sure keep them working on different channel.
I use 2 cineeye 2 pro constantly. No any problem. Very stable
Yes human reaction time is slower but if the latency adds even more of a pause it will throw people off
Nobody seems to test these wireless video kits with more than 1 unit in the same environment! How does it perform if you 3 or 4 pairs in the same environment? Imagine live streaming a graduation ceremony or something with at least a few mobile cameras.
Does anyone know how to setup the Frame rate output on the a7siii to 60P while recording in 24P?
I wish they sold just the transmitter. From what I can tell getting the app only model does not give same path to upgrading as if they sold just this model's transmitter. When I go from small production monitors to live hdmi transmission I could buy the receiver half when I need it. As it stands I either go for a short-term dead end or double down and over buy now.
They do. Certainly on b&h they do for the HDMI only one.
Hi Gerald, I have a lens question for you that comes from one of your previous videos about lens pupils / diameter / F stop etc... Anyone else who would also like to answer this, please feel free...
If a 50mm F4 has a 12.5mm pupil and a 25mm F4 has a 6.25mm pupil, then how do they let in the same amount of light wide open? Shouldn't the 50 let in more?
I'm basing my question from my assumption that the same F stop, let's in the same amount of light, no matter the focal length. I believe my assumption is correct on that, but it then doesn't make sense to me that they would let in the same amount of light, if the 25mm has a smaller diameter lens pupil?
Thanks
Well, the gear lingo is all Greek to me. But what I want to know is, where’s your Harriet t-shirt @geraldundone ?🙀
As a side note we have learned that Gerald is critically short on cats.
Next time you do the finger latancy test you should get a panic button to push.
75% was way less entertaining. Great video!
You're wrong... 0.5 speed is WAY funnier.
Thanks for the info mate!
Make that money bro... i only wonder about its compatibility with the ATEM mini did you test this?
Yeah, it works.
@@geraldundone my intention is to put it between the ninja v on my camera and the atem mini ...i know the ninja v hdmi out is sometimes picky on devices it will work with.... can you test this chain?
I'm hoping someone can answer this question:
If I connect a wireless HDMI system that is rated for 1080p 60fps, to a NINJA V's HDMI output, outputting 4K, will the wireless system convert it to 1080p 60fps or will it just not work?
My intention is to use the NINJA V as my main monitor, but use the HDMI output of the NINJA V for an external monitor wirelessly for directors, clients etc.
So the connection line is:
A7s iii > 4K HDMI > NINJA V
Then
that NINJA V > wireless HDMI system > Shinobi Monitor