I'm so glad they came out with these! I love barefoot shoes but standing all day on hard concrete at work was taking a toll on me. I just got these today and it's a big improvement and I still get to enjoy my love for a wider toe box shoe!
This is the only show that 100% take away my arthritic knee pain and little fluid pocket when I wear them consistently. I’d recommend these to anyone who has gait issues due to compensation from a previous leg injury on one side.
I use this shoe for trail running and I love it. A lot bigger toe box then the Altra lone peak and the cushioning is just right. I did get used to running on the road with the primal 2 for a while, but I thought I needed a little more protection on trail. As for grip on loose SoCal trails, the tread seems to work great.
I'm still an amateur at barefoot shoes and bought these Zens. They are fantastically comfortable like cozy bedroom slippers. At the same time, the heel and midfoot can be laced tightly to hold my slim foot and traction feels great for casual wear.
You nailed the review. I love these shoes, however, I found the size fit true especially after putting on my toe spacers. I love working out and running in these and will definitely order more
Thank you for mentioning toe spacers. I just started using them and need a shoe they will fit in. It’s great to know that they will fit in these. Sounds like the shoes are worth waiting for to be back in stock.
I've been wearing vans, converse, vessi's and under armour shoes my whole life. I decided to try out barefoot shoes and hopefully help with spine problems and balance issues for BJJ. I just ordered these shoes in brown as my first barefoot shoes and can't wait to see how it goes from here! I know it will take a while, but I have a feeling it will be well worth it to finally get out of the shoes that have been destroying my feet for nearly 30 years
I bought a brown pair about a week ago and today I just ordered a black pair. One plus for me over the Primal 2 is the half sizes so I could get 9.5 US where as my Primal 2 are all 10 US. However, that is not an issue since the Primal 2 have no structure they just sort of wrap around your foot and there is no heel slip. I prefer the Primal Zen and my only complaint is the gusseted tongue and so the shoe does not open right up. That is annoying for me as I have a high instep and so they just don't slip on but once on they are excellent. I find that from a slow walk through to a very fast walk, about 4.5 mph, they give a sort of rolling smooth stride that is similar to what I get with Brooks Ghost 14. In fact they feel closer to the Ghost 14 than they do to the Primal 2. Forget about the stack height being only 2mm greater than the Primal 2. Lems has done something where the result is way out of proportion to the extra 2 mm stack height over the Primal 2. Apart from Brooks Ghost 14 I also have New Balance 880 V11 and both the Ghost 14 and NB are now in archives. !!!!!! That happened about a week ago, one day after I got the first pair of Primal Zen. Lems are on a winner with the Zen.
So you actually went down half a size from the primal 2's? That's interesting. Chart suggests to go up half a size from the primal 2. I'm trying to figure out what size to get. My foot length is about 28.4cm. According to the chart, it's kinda suggesting I get a 12.5 for the primal zen, but also according to the chart I would be a 12 in the primal 2. I'm leaning towards ordering the primal Zen's in a 12... Any suggestions from your experience and having both pairs? If the length between the zens and the 2's is the same, I'll probably just get the size 12
They are firmer overall, although I am not sure about running in them. If the Ghost fit you well and you want something firmer why not look at the Brooks Adrenaline GTS 22 as they rare essentially a firmed up Ghost with support. @@thesearemydogs
I honestly bought these to mosh pit at metal shows. I just got my pair in today. Pounding my feet on hard floors with my xero prios gets rough after a while. These should do the job.
Thank you. Your video is exactly what I was looking for. I needed to see the insole out of the shoe and know if they were good for transitioning to barefoot shoes. As much as I want the primal 2 I think it’s too thin for me being new to minimalist shoes. Hopefully Lems will have the black 9 back in stock soon.
Love this video. Not super familiar w the lems primal zen but after this video I’m really considering then. I’m looking at the primal 2 also. I’m in brooks now. And want to transition to barefoot shoes. So primal zen to primal 2. But just for walking around and leisure. Zen seems like a good choice
Kaden, I’m so glad to recently discovered your Lems shoe review. . Last April I decided to drive deep into wearing Vivobare foot & xero shoes. My feet instantly began to swell, and my chronic SI joint pelvic pain felt off balance. I hung in there for 6 months hoping my pelvis would adapt to wearing these two brands. Unfortunately, it did not and my SI joints pelvic pain worsened over time. My standing window tolerance became shorter & shorter. So I saw your video and brought Primal 2 shoes. I’m noticing my standing tolerance is improving and Si joints pelvis pain has softened. I’m one week into wear them. I did purchase primal zen, trying them out now. Keep you posted. Maybe I was “heel striking” too hard with Vivo & Xeros? Who knows. For now I recommend Lems. I was able to walk a block without excruciating discomfort. Last Question Kaden,,,are there any research studies about barefoot shoes & heel striking stressing the SI joints or low back? ✌🏽😊
it's not so much about the thickness of the sole, but about the bulkiness of the shoe in general i'm considering sending it back and just get primal 2's again for the 4th time or something, but probably i don't want to deal with the hassle of sending it back and i'm gonna have to deal with these for the coming years.
Hi Kaden: Great review. I am looking to get my first pair of zero drop shoes. I have looked at a lot of brands and every review brings me back to these shoes as the best choice for a first zero drop shoe over other brands. I have very wide feet. Always had a tough time buying shoes growing up. I now suffer from a Morton's Neuroma. My normal size shoe is a 10.5 Men's extra wide shoe. Do you think I should go up a the half size to an 11? Thanks.
@@docksloan I think that's incorrect. The width increases per length, if only by a couple millimeters (at least this was the case with old style Lems).
are the lems primal 2's really not that good of a transition shoe? because those are what i am using to transition, and i also got some Xero Prio Suede shoes that im waiting on wearing until i feel more comfortable with the lems. also the shoes im transitioning out of are some adidas parlay uncaged
Thanks for your review! I've been searching fruitlessly for a shoe I can run in that won't hurt with my neruomas. I loved the Altra Kayentas -- wide toe box, flexible, fit like a sock, a bit of cushion, zero drop. Do you know how these might compare?
Hey man! Question for you. What are your recommendations for a minimal wide toe box shoe to use strictly for walking outside? I walk a lot and want something that is comfortable but also durable. I appreciate your help! Thanks for your videos
I usually wear xero shoes but am looking for something with a little more structure and a little more cushion for when I'm playing basketball. Do you think that these would work? How was lateral support?
Your mic is clipping quite a lot, which means you're using too much gain somewhere in your audio chain. Maybe you were trying to compensate for low volume? Better to use dynamic range compression in that case. Great review though, I hadn't realized the Zens were so cushioned--which would cause me the same problem they caused you, make my minimalist-accustomed arches sore.
How do they compare to the primal pursuit? Looking for a good zero drop for asphalt walking. I'm sure both are good options but which one would you say is more suited to that purpose?
I haven’t worn the Pursuit so I can’t be super accurate. I would just look at the specs and decide how much overall cushion you want for that activity. Generally, for flat surfaces, the closer to the ground the better for me.
I have pronation that causes pain in my inner ankle bone. This is due to barefoot shoe, but it hurts to wear normal shoes. Can I put a orthodic in this?
I just bought these today for the gym and summer outdoors walking and can’t wait to use them. I’m just starting my zero drop barefoot journey (although I’ve walked around literally barefoot in my house and yard my entire life) and the moment I stepped into these at the shop I felt like my feet had come home. I also bought the Lems Chelsea boot (same extreme comfort) to replace my beloved but constricting Blundstones (goodbye 🥲), and a pair of Vivobarefoot Tracker Forest ESC hiking boots while I was at it! In for a penny, in for a pound.
Is the toe box width the same as the Primal 2s? I wear a size 9 for the Primal 2 and the toe box width is just right. Should I stick with size 9 or go half a size up for the Zens?
Is the sole really that much of a noticeable difference from the Primal 2 with only a 2mm difference? I have the Primal 2’s and Lems Mesa. I think I’d like something with more stack height than the Primal 2’s, but am not sure only 2mm would make much of a difference.
Yup I noticed it as well but it's perfect for me since I wanted a more comfortable shoe while at work. I'm walking and standing on concrete all day so this really helped a lot.
Difference between Primal 2 and Primal Zen is big. I think partly because of the gusseted tongue which extends up to the second eyelet and there is no elastic or fold between the tongue and the shoe. Also, the bottom of the shoe/sole is solid all the way whereas the Primal 2 has the gap to the ground between the heel and the forefoot. If you simply added 2mm to the Primal 2 sole the result would be nothing like the Zen
@@docksloan ok thanks. I'm actually looking for something with a see through mesh to replace my Merrell All Out Blaze Aeros. Merrell stopped making them :(
For Olympic lifts, I strongly recommend a lifter. More sturdy and helps place you in a better position, especially if you’re missing some ankle motion.
Nice review, sounds like they would make for a good minimalist running shoe. Although i have got accustomed to wearing/walking in Xero's and Vivobarefoot...super thin shoes, I am still not able to run comfortably in them on asphalt. I think i will buy these and use them for running.
4:56 this is kinda insane to me. Why do these labels even exist. Theres literally a reference on the top with real measuring units present. Why do shoe manufacturers still use these. They are completely arbitrary
Hi i JUST ordered my second pair of Primal 2's. I've worn mine for general wear and some CrossFit, which i restarted recently after a couple years sedentary. Thinking of getting back into some running longer than 400m. 😄 It's been MANY years and back then i used more traditional cushioned running shoes. The Zen actually might be a good option for me since most of my runs will be pavement and i might appreciate that little bit of extra cushion. Considering. Thanks for the review! 👍
I was very disappointed to see that Lems are made in China; they're only "designed" in Colorado. I'll buy products made anywhere but China. Made in Viet Nam would be fine.
I'm so glad they came out with these! I love barefoot shoes but standing all day on hard concrete at work was taking a toll on me. I just got these today and it's a big improvement and I still get to enjoy my love for a wider toe box shoe!
That’s awesome! I’m glad you love ‘em too!
I walk/stand on concrete all day as well. What kind of other shoes were you wearing before the Primal Zen?
The Primal2 and Xero Prio
What size did you end up getting? I wear size 9 for the Primal 2 and I can't decide if I should go with 9 or 9.5 for the Primal Zen.
Altras have a wide toe box and zero drop with a bunch of cushion.
This is the only show that 100% take away my arthritic knee pain and little fluid pocket when I wear them consistently. I’d recommend these to anyone who has gait issues due to compensation from a previous leg injury on one side.
the zoom in and out edit at 7:03 was a nice touch to emphasize what you were saying! nice edit!
I use this shoe for trail running and I love it. A lot bigger toe box then the Altra lone peak and the cushioning is just right. I did get used to running on the road with the primal 2 for a while, but I thought I needed a little more protection on trail. As for grip on loose SoCal trails, the tread seems to work great.
That’s an awesome addition! I’m sure people will love reading about your experience. Thank you!
Gil, so your running with the Primal zen on trals, does it feel odd running in these? They dont look like running shoes.
Hey, did you have the standard or wide width for LP?
This is exactly what I needed to know, the zens will definitely be better for what I need right now. Thank you!
I'm still an amateur at barefoot shoes and bought these Zens. They are fantastically comfortable like cozy bedroom slippers. At the same time, the heel and midfoot can be laced tightly to hold my slim foot and traction feels great for casual wear.
Love that you like them!
Great review, very comprehensive and fair. Never heard of Lems before, but I like the look of them for an introductory barefoot shoe
You nailed the review. I love these shoes, however, I found the size fit true especially after putting on my toe spacers. I love working out and running in these and will definitely order more
Thank you for mentioning toe spacers. I just started using them and need a shoe they will fit in. It’s great to know that they will fit in these. Sounds like the shoes are worth waiting for to be back in stock.
I've been wearing vans, converse, vessi's and under armour shoes my whole life. I decided to try out barefoot shoes and hopefully help with spine problems and balance issues for BJJ. I just ordered these shoes in brown as my first barefoot shoes and can't wait to see how it goes from here! I know it will take a while, but I have a feeling it will be well worth it to finally get out of the shoes that have been destroying my feet for nearly 30 years
How is it going?
How is it going
I bought a brown pair about a week ago and today I just ordered a black pair. One plus for me over the Primal 2 is the half sizes so I could get 9.5 US where as my Primal 2 are all 10 US. However, that is not an issue since the Primal 2 have no structure they just sort of wrap around your foot and there is no heel slip. I prefer the Primal Zen and my only complaint is the gusseted tongue and so the shoe does not open right up. That is annoying for me as I have a high instep and so they just don't slip on but once on they are excellent. I find that from a slow walk through to a very fast walk, about 4.5 mph, they give a sort of rolling smooth stride that is similar to what I get with Brooks Ghost 14. In fact they feel closer to the Ghost 14 than they do to the Primal 2. Forget about the stack height being only 2mm greater than the Primal 2. Lems has done something where the result is way out of proportion to the extra 2 mm stack height over the Primal 2. Apart from Brooks Ghost 14 I also have New Balance 880 V11 and both the Ghost 14 and NB are now in archives. !!!!!! That happened about a week ago, one day after I got the first pair of Primal Zen. Lems are on a winner with the Zen.
Great thoughts! And I totally agree.
So you actually went down half a size from the primal 2's? That's interesting. Chart suggests to go up half a size from the primal 2. I'm trying to figure out what size to get. My foot length is about 28.4cm. According to the chart, it's kinda suggesting I get a 12.5 for the primal zen, but also according to the chart I would be a 12 in the primal 2. I'm leaning towards ordering the primal Zen's in a 12... Any suggestions from your experience and having both pairs? If the length between the zens and the 2's is the same, I'll probably just get the size 12
Are the Primal Zens as soft as the ghost 14? I had the ghosts but need something firmer.
They are firmer overall, although I am not sure about running in them. If the Ghost fit you well and you want something firmer why not look at the Brooks Adrenaline GTS 22 as they rare essentially a firmed up Ghost with support. @@thesearemydogs
I honestly bought these to mosh pit at metal shows. I just got my pair in today. Pounding my feet on hard floors with my xero prios gets rough after a while. These should do the job.
This is my first zero drop shoe and already love them. Thanks for the review
Glad you like them!
Very good review. Seems like an optimal shoe for my needs.
Hope I can get the sizing right. It’s always tricky.
They are a great transition shoe I wish I’d had these first rather than vivos that caused plantar fasciitis 😫
Thank you. Your video is exactly what I was looking for. I needed to see the insole out of the shoe and know if they were good for transitioning to barefoot shoes. As much as I want the primal 2 I think it’s too thin for me being new to minimalist shoes. Hopefully Lems will have the black 9 back in stock soon.
Love this video. Not super familiar w the lems primal zen but after this video I’m really considering then. I’m looking at the primal 2 also. I’m in brooks now. And want to transition to barefoot shoes. So primal zen to primal 2.
But just for walking around and leisure. Zen seems like a good choice
Really appreciate your video, is there any arch support in these shoes?
Nope!
Do they fit true to size? I wear a 10.5 in Altra and most other runners. thx for the look.
Kaden-do you have recommendation for tennis? I haven’t found one with a more durable outsole.
Kaden, I’m so glad to recently discovered your Lems shoe review. . Last April I decided to drive deep into wearing Vivobare foot & xero shoes. My feet instantly began to swell, and my chronic SI joint pelvic pain felt off balance. I hung in there for 6 months hoping my pelvis would adapt to wearing these two brands. Unfortunately, it did not and my SI joints pelvic pain worsened over time. My standing window tolerance became shorter & shorter. So I saw your video and brought Primal 2 shoes. I’m noticing my standing tolerance is improving and Si joints pelvis pain has softened. I’m one week into wear them. I did purchase primal zen, trying them out now. Keep you posted. Maybe I was “heel striking” too hard with Vivo & Xeros? Who knows. For now I recommend Lems. I was able to walk a block without excruciating discomfort. Last Question Kaden,,,are there any research studies about barefoot shoes & heel striking stressing the SI joints or low back? ✌🏽😊
Curious if you have worn them without the insole, and if so, what your thoughts are?
I have. It just adds a lot more room in the shoe. I’m good with or without it
@@docksloan thanks for the reply. I'm guessing you still have some foot soreness issues related to the stack height then?
Nope! Not anymore :)
it's not so much about the thickness of the sole, but about the bulkiness of the shoe in general i'm considering sending it back and just get primal 2's again for the 4th time or something, but probably i don't want to deal with the hassle of sending it back and i'm gonna have to deal with these for the coming years.
Is the toe spring noticeable? I’ve been using Altras for sports , but don’t like their toe spring
Hi Kaden: Great review. I am looking to get my first pair of zero drop shoes. I have looked at a lot of brands and every review brings me back to these shoes as the best choice for a first zero drop shoe over other brands. I have very wide feet. Always had a tough time buying shoes growing up. I now suffer from a Morton's Neuroma. My normal size shoe is a 10.5 Men's extra wide shoe. Do you think I should go up a the half size to an 11? Thanks.
Going up will just add more length but you could try!
@@docksloan I think that's incorrect. The width increases per length, if only by a couple millimeters (at least this was the case with old style Lems).
are the lems primal 2's really not that good of a transition shoe? because those are what i am using to transition, and i also got some Xero Prio Suede shoes that im waiting on wearing until i feel more comfortable with the lems. also the shoes im transitioning out of are some adidas parlay uncaged
Taking every individual’s tolerance into account, I still think the Primal 2s are great for transitioning.
@@docksloan ok nice! thanks for responding
Thanks for your review! I've been searching fruitlessly for a shoe I can run in that won't hurt with my neruomas. I loved the Altra Kayentas -- wide toe box, flexible, fit like a sock, a bit of cushion, zero drop. Do you know how these might compare?
I wish I did but I haven’t tried those!
And I’m glad you liked the video :)
as a runner would it be a good idea for me to get these ?
Hey man! Question for you. What are your recommendations for a minimal wide toe box shoe to use strictly for walking outside? I walk a lot and want something that is comfortable but also durable. I appreciate your help! Thanks for your videos
Also zero drop
The Zens are actually really great for that!
You dont go up in size to allow for some space in front of your toe?
I usually wear xero shoes but am looking for something with a little more structure and a little more cushion for when I'm playing basketball. Do you think that these would work? How was lateral support?
Probably will be okay but should probably have a basketball shoe for lateral support if you need it. Shoes are a tool.
Your mic is clipping quite a lot, which means you're using too much gain somewhere in your audio chain. Maybe you were trying to compensate for low volume? Better to use dynamic range compression in that case.
Great review though, I hadn't realized the Zens were so cushioned--which would cause me the same problem they caused you, make my minimalist-accustomed arches sore.
How do they compare to the primal pursuit? Looking for a good zero drop for asphalt walking. I'm sure both are good options but which one would you say is more suited to that purpose?
I haven’t worn the Pursuit so I can’t be super accurate. I would just look at the specs and decide how much overall cushion you want for that activity. Generally, for flat surfaces, the closer to the ground the better for me.
I have pronation that causes pain in my inner ankle bone. This is due to barefoot shoe, but it hurts to wear normal shoes. Can I put a orthodic in this?
You could. The better option is to train the arch to support itself
I just bought these today for the gym and summer outdoors walking and can’t wait to use them. I’m just starting my zero drop barefoot journey (although I’ve walked around literally barefoot in my house and yard my entire life) and the moment I stepped into these at the shop I felt like my feet had come home. I also bought the Lems Chelsea boot (same extreme comfort) to replace my beloved but constricting Blundstones (goodbye 🥲), and a pair of Vivobarefoot Tracker Forest ESC hiking boots while I was at it! In for a penny, in for a pound.
can i use these as my daily running shoe ?
Is the toe box width the same as the Primal 2s? I wear a size 9 for the Primal 2 and the toe box width is just right. Should I stick with size 9 or go half a size up for the Zens?
The toe box feels very similar. I would stick to the recommendation on Lems' website.
Which one has wider toe box - this one or be lenka? Is difference significant?
I feel like the Be Lenka but it’s not super significant
Is the sole really that much of a noticeable difference from the Primal 2 with only a 2mm difference? I have the Primal 2’s and Lems Mesa. I think I’d like something with more stack height than the Primal 2’s, but am not sure only 2mm would make much of a difference.
I definitely notice it, especially when wearing both at the same time.
Yup I noticed it as well but it's perfect for me since I wanted a more comfortable shoe while at work. I'm walking and standing on concrete all day so this really helped a lot.
They are more flexible than the Mesa and better ground feel. I think they are much better than the Primal 2, and a lot more durable.
Difference between Primal 2 and Primal Zen is big. I think partly because of the gusseted tongue which extends up to the second eyelet and there is no elastic or fold between the tongue and the shoe. Also, the bottom of the shoe/sole is solid all the way whereas the Primal 2 has the gap to the ground between the heel and the forefoot. If you simply added 2mm to the Primal 2 sole the result would be nothing like the Zen
Do these have a completely see through mesh? I.e you can see your foot through the top?
No not at all. Breathability - great. Visibility - negligible
@@docksloan ok thanks. I'm actually looking for something with a see through mesh to replace my Merrell All Out Blaze Aeros. Merrell stopped making them :(
That’s a bummer! If you find a good replacement let me know.
If I look really closely, I can see my white socks. Nobody else will notice tho.
These don't seem wide enough. Check out the softsar sawyers for excellent splay
Great video.
Would you recommend these (or any Lems shoes) for Olympic weightlifting?
For Olympic lifts, I strongly recommend a lifter. More sturdy and helps place you in a better position, especially if you’re missing some ankle motion.
10.5 Lems boulder fits me. Will The zen fit similarly?
Very. They have a comparison chart on their website below every pair of shoes
Would this be a good court shoe? Always felt the Primal 2 we're a bit too unstructured for the court.... Thinking pickleball here...
Potentially! I haven’t tried them in that setting.
Are they flexible? Or a bit stiff? Can they be folded?
They can be! Just a little harder than other ones.
Did they send you the shoes for free or did you have to purchase them for your review?
They sent them to me but there were no obligations to have one opinion over another. I genuinely like these a lot.
Are primal zen or primal 2 waterproof?
I don’t think so
Nice review, sounds like they would make for a good minimalist running shoe. Although i have got accustomed to wearing/walking in Xero's and Vivobarefoot...super thin shoes, I am still not able to run comfortably in them on asphalt. I think i will buy these and use them for running.
That’s awesome! Let me know how they do!
Just curious how you like the Zens for running?
These are the best shoes I've ever owned
That’s awesome!
Nice video 😇✌
Thank you so much!
@@docksloan 😊
do you have the same issue with the arch ache with the primal 2?
Nope!
4:56 this is kinda insane to me. Why do these labels even exist. Theres literally a reference on the top with real measuring units present. Why do shoe manufacturers still use these. They are completely arbitrary
Excellent review!
I am a Prima 2 guy. Think I will stick to the 2
Hi i JUST ordered my second pair of Primal 2's. I've worn mine for general wear and some CrossFit, which i restarted recently after a couple years sedentary.
Thinking of getting back into some running longer than 400m. 😄 It's been MANY years and back then i used more traditional cushioned running shoes. The Zen actually might be a good option for me since most of my runs will be pavement and i might appreciate that little bit of extra cushion. Considering. Thanks for the review! 👍
That’s awesome to hear! Keep up the good work 💪🏼
The design is not too impressive
Friend content is divine 💓
👍
I was very disappointed to see that Lems are made in China; they're only "designed" in Colorado. I'll buy products made anywhere but China. Made in Viet Nam would be fine.
I m a martial artist from india